The Devastating Effect of Porn on Men - Dr Debra Soh

CChris Williamson
Mental HealthParentingWeight Loss/NutritionVideo & Computer GamesInternet Technology

Transcript

00:00:00Is the issue do you think more about a desire for sex or coupling?
00:00:08You mean in terms of why people aren't having it?
00:00:10Yeah.
00:00:12It's probably both. I think at the core everybody wants to find someone.
00:00:15Many people may say that they've given up and they're happy on their own but I do think that's what most people deep down want.
00:00:21The thing with sex though, I think porn is a big part of this issue in terms of why people are turning away from actual sexual activity.
00:00:31They're getting their needs met through this proxy that simulates real sexual activity.
00:00:37Because when you're watching porn, the same network of brain regions is activated as when you're actually having sex.
00:00:42So you're having the resulting orgasm and you are getting these feel good chemicals.
00:00:49It helps to self-soothe and regulate your emotions, help calm down if you're stressed out.
00:00:54And so it makes men I think in particular less likely to want to go out and go through the hassle of having to talk to a woman, having to sit through a date, having to pay for the date, having to follow up and all this stuff.
00:01:05Why bother do that if you can get sexual gratification on a screen?
00:01:09But I think also that leads to potentially an overall sense of lethargy.
00:01:14Because when you are masturbating and having orgasm, you're going to be sleepy after.
00:01:20So is that also, you can tell me, do you think this is a trend not for you but just a trend more generally with young men in terms of does this affect their motivation?
00:01:30Because I'm wondering for guys, this question of why men are falling behind in society, right?
00:01:35And I'm very concerned for young men because I imagine, I hear all the time from parents that their daughters are doing really well excelling academically.
00:01:43But their sons just for whatever reason are just, they're not enjoying it, they're having mental health issues.
00:01:48I think they're just staying at home and fapping all the time.
00:01:50Yeah, well maybe not fapping but they're like vaping and playing video games or online betting or whatever and they have no motivation.
00:01:56Do you think porn could be part of that?
00:01:59Because I think if you're exposed to this at such a young age and this is the thing that you're watching every day and it's your coping strategy, that potentially that's the thing you're going to constantly gravitate toward and it's actually going to make you really sedated and lethargic more broadly in life.
00:02:12Yeah, I think sedated is a great word.
00:02:14I've got another idea that Scott probably can't wait to fucking misquote.
00:02:18The male sedation hypothesis.
00:02:20Young male syndrome, which I know that you know about, historically high volumes of young sexless men tended to cause anarchy and revolutions and push over granny and set stuff on fire.
00:02:29Why is it, given that we've seen the highest rates of sexlessness amongst young men in the modern world, that we're not seeing the concordant amounts of antisocial behavior?
00:02:38And it's my belief that men are being sedated out of their status seeking and reproductive seeking behavior through screens, video games and porn.
00:02:49And yeah, that's what's happening behaviorally. Maybe the semantic ring disruptors, maybe a lot of weed.
00:02:54I think more people, more young guys smoke weed than drink alcohol now.
00:02:57So yeah, it is a real push toward lethargy.
00:03:01Do I think that you're anesthetizing yourself from your sort of mate seeking behavior by being able to use porn?
00:03:12Almost certainly to a degree.
00:03:15I mean, there's even the opposite, which is, what was it, masturbate before you evaluate was a tagline at university, which was, do I really want to sleep with that girl?
00:03:23Let me have a wank first and work out if I still do.
00:03:28And for the most part, the guys were like, no, I didn't like you, I was just horny.
00:03:35And in some ways, you go, ah, that avoids me from making a mistake.
00:03:38But when you do it en masse and when it's very easily available, I mean, look, there's some mixed bag data.
00:03:47Dr. David Lay is very anti-porn panic.
00:03:50I know Mike Israel is very anti-porn panic too.
00:03:53And then on the other side, there's some people that behaviorally it's not recognized as an addiction properly yet, I don't think.
00:04:01Right.
00:04:02But it seems impossible to me that one of the strongest drivers for humans being given to them freely, they can essentially push a button, like rub a button for a while.
00:04:14And they get to experience this thing that, I mean, you know what would be fascinating?
00:04:23I would have loved to have seen in hunter-gatherer tribes how much masturbation occurs.
00:04:29Probably too busy foraging.
00:04:31Okay, well, that might be true.
00:04:33Just talk to me, the neuroscience of porn news, is there anything distinct about that that's different to what's happening when people have sex?
00:04:42Okay, I was going to mention, I was going to say something.
00:04:44Oh, so what I was going to say, I agree with you in terms of like, if you're, I can see if you're doing it like constantly and it becomes a lifestyle thing.
00:04:54This is what my concern is.
00:04:55If it's like a lifestyle thing for guys.
00:04:57Because I've had men say to me when they are not watching porn, if they managed to cut out porn entirely, that they actually have more motivation to go up and talk to a woman.
00:05:06Because I would imagine if you see a woman that you're attracted to and you want to go speak to her and say you're maybe more shy or anxious, you know in the back of your mind that you can go home and masturbate.
00:05:15And that's going to give you a release after.
00:05:17So in some ways, would that not make it a little bit easier for younger guys, especially who may not have as much experience with women and especially post me to where they're already a little bit, understandably more scared to talk to women.
00:05:29How it, knowing that you have this other option might.
00:05:34That's a good point.
00:05:35That is a good point.
00:05:37It's the same thing as if the only way that men could get sex was by marrying a woman, asking her father, becoming a pillar of the community, showing his competence.
00:05:48Or if you just need to be in a nightclub at the right time in the right place at two in the morning.
00:05:52Men will meet those standards appropriately, including the standards for themselves in order to get sexual gratification through a screen.
00:05:58But it is, I can't remember who it was that said it to me, but just for a second, think about how stupid the human brain is and think about how strong our sex drive is.
00:06:10That looking at a seven inch across screen that I am not a part of, of someone else having sex with someone else can confuse my brain into thinking some sex is going to happen here.
00:06:26That is how strong this drive is.
00:06:29That a two dimensional, exclusively video and audio representation on a teeny tiny little screen popped up against a pillow is enough to convince your brain there might be some sex on.
00:06:44You should respond appropriately.
00:06:46It is mad.
00:06:47Also think about what it's doing to kids.
00:06:49This is one of the rabbit holes I've been going down more recently and thinking about how has this affected Gen Z's development.
00:06:54They're exposed to porn at such a young age.
00:06:57But in terms of the difference between say what's going on in the brain.
00:07:01So same brain network basically you know like regions that are involved in physiological arousal, penile tumescence, visual regions.
00:07:09This was my dissertation actually so it takes me back now I'm trying to remember what other parts of motor.
00:07:14You did a dissertation on penile tumescence?
00:07:17No, no not just penile tumescence but it was on basically male sexuality and sexual arousal.
00:07:22I looked at the structure and function of the brain.
00:07:24I used four different types of brain imaging.
00:07:26It was a lot of fun.
00:07:27It was a very expensive study but I was extremely blessed.
00:07:30Really fun for the men.
00:07:32And so basically it's the same network.
00:07:36It's not activated as strongly but it's very much the same regions and that's why pornography is so compelling.
00:07:43And why I think for people who especially if you are if that is your primary mode of sexual release you very much become a preference for a stand-in.
00:07:53You're habituating more than anything it's just what do you do?
00:07:57You know guys that tend to go to the same bar all the time, sit in the same seat, order the same coffee.
00:08:06Like this just becomes a part of your daily routine and there's this weird habituation effect I think with porn.
00:08:14Mary Harrington calls it the law of fapentropy which is whatever you start out wanking to gets progressively more extreme over time.
00:08:20That's actually I like her work but actually that's not exactly accurate.
00:08:24Tell me what is accurate?
00:08:25For guys who end up watching quote extreme stuff that's actually what they liked all along.
00:08:29It just took them a while to admit it to themselves.
00:08:31Oh God the algo wasn't delivering them what they needed until it took a bit of time to refine it.
00:08:37Well because I understandably men who have these unusual sexual preferences they're a little bit yeah balloons.
00:08:44They're a little bit more reluctant to say out loud so.
00:08:47Even to themselves.
00:08:48Even to themselves.
00:08:49Oh that's so interesting.
00:08:50When they're explaining to say their partner or their friends if they're talking about this.
00:08:54That's so good I love I love that.
00:08:56I mean the law still works but not for the reason that you think it's not a progressive habituation to more extreme stuff.
00:09:02It's a progressive revealing to yourself of what you wanted.
00:09:05That's so cool.
00:09:06What about gooning?
00:09:07Let's talk about gooning.
00:09:08Oh boy.
00:09:10Yeah I mean you could spend your life masturbating watching porn if you want to.
00:09:14There's enough content out there for sure.
00:09:16So gooning I'm sure your audience knows what this term is but it's basically men who predominantly men who like to masturbate to no end in sight.
00:09:24And basically my understanding they might have multiple screens open for hours.
00:09:29They don't reach an orgasm.
00:09:30It's like edging but for a longer period of time and they don't really have any conflict about it.
00:09:36They quite enjoy it.
00:09:38How's porn affected women?
00:09:40I think there are more women struggling with porn issues than people realize because this has predominantly been an issue like say porn quote addiction.
00:09:49Although like you said I don't believe porn is addictive.
00:09:52I think it's a poor coping mechanism for people who have anxiety and who procrastinate.
00:09:56That's really what it's been when I talk to men.
00:09:58Sedating, not addicting.
00:10:00Yeah well because if you say you have anxiety or you lack assertiveness it's a very easy way to distract yourself and not have to deal with the problems in your life.
00:10:09Which I have a lot of compassion for people who struggle with this because I think because it's pornography, it's related to sex, it's a lot more stigmatized.
00:10:16So I understand why people want to call it an addiction because there have been studies that claim that it's addiction but they don't account for other confounding variables.
00:10:25So they don't ask about things like paraphilias.
00:10:28From what I've seen they don't ask about anxiety.
00:10:30So you don't know when you're looking at these brain regions that are supposed to be different that are correlated with addiction.
00:10:34You don't know if what you're seeing in the people with porn problems is due to addiction or is it due to the fact that they're anxious or the fact that they have these unusual sexual interests.
00:10:42So I think that research could be a little bit cleaner if it does happen that new studies come out showing this then I'm fully on board with that.
00:10:49But I'm just not really convinced because when you talk to guys with porn problems almost always they have anxiety.
00:10:54And this is a way for them to avoid talking to their spouse or their girlfriend.
00:10:57So what's different with women?
00:10:59Women I think it's the same thing. We don't know as much about women because this is an issue that I think has only really become more of a problem with the younger generation.
00:11:06Maybe even millennial women like younger millennial women with the accessibility of porn.
00:11:11But I think even because it's even with studies when they're looking at say the effects of porn on kids.
00:11:16Women have only really started to show more negative body image say or body comparison more recently because girls are being exposed to it now.
00:11:24Girls tend to watch porn later than boys and they tend to watch it maybe once or twice out of curiosity.
00:11:29But I do think with like Gen Z they're being exposed to this even before their first sexual experience before their first orgasm.
00:11:35They can't make sense of it and I think that it can be integrated into their life a little bit more.
00:11:40So the same thing I think anxiety usually for anyone with a porn issue there's a history of some form of sexual trauma unfortunately.
00:11:46So there it's a way that anyone with a porn issue most people with a porn issue there is some history of sexual trauma.
00:11:53Not everyone but in my experience many of them have had some issue with yeah either with abuse or being exposed to porn at a young age.
00:12:02Either accidentally and that was like a traumatic thing like when I say trauma I'm not the way sometimes people use the word trauma nowadays is very flippant right.
00:12:09You mean actual.
00:12:11No yeah I'm referring to something that is actually quite horrific and awful or they might have been shown it in the process of grooming.
00:12:18So what do you what do you think is going on is it just disinhibition dysregulation?
00:12:22Is it the same reason that people who maybe had a childhood trauma struggle with gambling or struggle with drugs or alcohol or their emotions rage?
00:12:34Is it just the same but this particular pathway these people have found is porn or is there something specific about the mechanism that porn gives that helps them to sort of alchemize or try and alchemize whatever they went through?
00:12:47It could be partially biological thing because it's like a self-soothing thing so especially for children if they're not taught ways to self-regulate they're looking for ways to feel good when they're stressed out or upset right.
00:12:57So some people gravitate toward drugs and alcohol other people might gravitate toward porn I think it depends on how old you are probably when you come across it initially what your experience is when you see it like is it a pleasurable thing?
00:13:09But I think for the men say who've like when I was doing research who had had these negative experiences in childhood it was a way of revisiting it to try and make sense of it I think.
00:13:18But yeah I really strongly believe like sitting down with a competent therapist and working through that stuff could be very helpful for people.
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00:14:38Thank you very much for tuning in. Oh a tasty morsel of a clip there for you. Well the full episode is available right here.

Key Takeaway

Pornography functions as a potent neurobiological sedative that diminishes the motivation of young men to seek real-world social and reproductive status by providing an easily accessible, simulated version of sexual gratification.

Highlights

Pornography acts as a functional proxy for real sexual activity by activating the same brain regions and releasing feel-good chemicals.

The availability of instant sexual gratification leads to a 'male sedation' effect, reducing the motivation for men to pursue real-world relationships.

Dr. Debra Soh argues that porn is often a coping mechanism for anxiety and procrastination rather than a clinical addiction.

Early exposure to pornography, particularly for Gen Z, may significantly alter developmental pathways and social behaviors.

There is a strong correlation between porn issues and a history of sexual trauma or a lack of emotional self-regulation skills.

The 'male sedation hypothesis' suggests that high-frequency screen use (porn, video games, gambling) prevents the social unrest historically associated with high levels of sexless men.

Timeline

The Neurobiology of Sexual Proxies

Dr. Debra Soh explains that many individuals are turning away from actual sexual activity because they are getting their needs met through a digital proxy. When watching porn, the same network of brain regions is activated as during real sex, resulting in orgasms and the release of feel-good chemicals. This process helps users self-soothe and regulate stress, but it ultimately makes men less likely to engage in the 'hassle' of dating and real-world courtship. The biological reward system is effectively hijacked, leading to an overall sense of lethargy and reduced social drive. Consequently, the brain is satisfied by the simulation, removing the biological urgency to find a partner.

The Male Sedation Hypothesis

The discussion shifts to why young men are falling behind in society and the potential link to 'male sedation.' Historically, high volumes of sexless men often led to social anarchy or revolutions, but the current generation remains largely passive. The speakers suggest that men are being sedated out of status-seeking and reproductive behaviors through screens, video games, and pornography. This sedation is compounded by other factors like increased marijuana use, which further promotes a lifestyle of lethargy. By anesthetizing themselves with easily accessible digital rewards, young men are no longer driven to compete or excel in the physical world. This shift in behavior is particularly concerning for parents observing their sons' lack of academic and social motivation.

The Illusion of Choice and Habituation

The speakers discuss the 'masturbate before you evaluate' phenomenon and how it prevents men from making social mistakes but also reduces their overall effort. In the past, sexual gratification required a man to show competence and become a pillar of the community, but now it only requires a screen. The human brain is easily confused by two-dimensional representations, reacting as if a real sexual opportunity is occurring. This creates a feedback loop where men habituate to a digital stand-in for intimacy rather than developing the skills to interact with women. Dr. Soh notes that when men cut out porn, they often report a significant increase in their motivation to talk to women in real life. This highlights how the presence of a 'backup' digital option saps the courage needed to face social anxiety.

Brain Networks and Preference Revealing

Dr. Soh recounts her dissertation work using four types of brain imaging to study male sexuality and arousal. She confirms that while porn activates the same regions as sex, the intensity is slightly different, leading to a habituation effect where users sit in the same routines. She challenges the 'law of fapentropy,' arguing that users don't necessarily become more extreme due to desensitization, but rather use the anonymity of the internet to finally admit unusual preferences to themselves. The algorithm doesn't necessarily 'corrupt' the user, but rather refines and delivers what they were already predisposed to like. This suggests that porn acts as a tool for self-discovery of niche interests that were previously hidden due to social stigma. Understanding these neural pathways helps explain why pornography is so uniquely compelling compared to other forms of media.

Porn as a Coping Mechanism for Trauma and Anxiety

In the final section, Dr. Soh argues against the strict classification of porn as an addiction, preferring to see it as a poor coping mechanism for anxiety and procrastination. She notes that women are also increasingly struggling with these issues, though their patterns of consumption often differ from men's. Many people with porn-related problems have a history of sexual trauma or grooming, using the medium as a way to self-soothe or try to make sense of horrific past experiences. For those without trauma, it often stems from a lack of emotional self-regulation skills during childhood. The speakers conclude that sitting down with a competent therapist to address these underlying emotional issues is more effective than simply treating the behavior as a chemical addiction. This holistic view emphasizes the importance of mental health and assertiveness training in overcoming the negative impacts of pornography.

Conclusion and Sponsorship

The video concludes with a brief advertisement for Momentous omega-3 supplements, linking physical health to brain function and inflammation reduction. The host highlights the importance of third-party testing and purity in nutritional products to ensure they support cognitive health effectively. This segment serves as a transition from the deep psychological discussion to practical health advice for the audience. The host encourages viewers to use a discount code for their first subscription, emphasizing the 30-day money-back guarantee. Finally, the clip ends by pointing viewers toward the full episode of the podcast for more in-depth conversation on the topic.

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