How To Build An Online Community (Complete Guide w/ Tom Ross)

TThe Futur
창업/스타트업마케팅/광고경영/리더십

Transcript

00:00:00To be a great community builder, you should be a great facilitator.
00:00:02It is not like social media, like all eyes on you.
00:00:05This is my warning.
00:00:07Don't offer lifetime memberships.
00:00:10Is your community a community for people who want to build communities?
00:00:13Loads of people actually join just to see how I'm running my community
00:00:18and then steal that.
00:00:19So how do you blow away new members with value in their first day?
00:00:23Hey, everyone.
00:00:26Today, I am super excited to explore membership communities with all of you.
00:00:31You might have noticed, but they're kind of exploding right now.
00:00:34And there are so many amazing membership communities that are thriving.
00:00:38But you may have looked at them and thought,
00:00:40am I capable of launching or building one?
00:00:42What's actually involved in running a community like this?
00:00:45And is it applicable to my skill set and my niche?
00:00:48We're going to cover all of that and more today.
00:00:50And I want to give you a real step by step breakdown
00:00:53of how to think about membership communities.
00:00:55Hey, Chris, thank you for having me back.
00:00:57Of course, Tom. Always happy to have you.
00:00:59I think we were just saying a minute ago, it's the third time on the channel.
00:01:02And it's always fun.
00:01:04But I always want to try and up my game again.
00:01:06I'm excited to chat today all about membership communities.
00:01:09So let's start by looking at why membership communities matter.
00:01:13Well, first of all, I love community because it lets you serve your people
00:01:17at scale, and therefore you can have a positive impact at scale.
00:01:20They let you help a lot of people, in essence.
00:01:23Also, you yes, you watching can run a subscription business.
00:01:28One of the most powerful things about membership communities
00:01:30is they're generally on a kind of recurring cadence in terms of member payments.
00:01:34And this is huge.
00:01:36If you've always handled like one of projects, you know, the kind of feast
00:01:39and famine cycle.
00:01:41But if you have a recurring subscription based business,
00:01:43it is incredibly, incredibly powerful.
00:01:46And I personally love this model.
00:01:47Communities can and do work at any scale and any niche.
00:01:51So if you're thinking like, maybe this isn't right for me, trust me,
00:01:54I work with some people in some incredibly like micro niches.
00:01:58I've worked with a face painting community, a community for arborists,
00:02:02which I learned meant tree surgeons.
00:02:05So don't worry about how weird or small your niche is.
00:02:08I promise there's an angle.
00:02:09Communities can be full time and a membership community
00:02:12can be a really big business if you want it to.
00:02:15Or it could just be a side hustle.
00:02:18And I actually run a thriving, pretty successful membership community
00:02:21as a hobby right now, as a side hustle.
00:02:23And I'm going to dig into how I do that around a busy day job
00:02:27and being a new dad.
00:02:29And finally, communities enable members to help members.
00:02:34This is huge. Communities are bigger than you.
00:02:36We're all used to social media, where we have to be the dominant voice
00:02:39all the time and the one coming up with all the answers and all the content.
00:02:42But the truth is, if you build your community right, members
00:02:46are going to be helping each other while you sleep.
00:02:48And this is huge.
00:02:50But I want to caveat some things before we get into today.
00:02:53Building community is not always easy.
00:02:56Communities can take a lot of work, particularly to get off the ground
00:02:59at the very start, and they involve dealing with people a lot.
00:03:03Communities are essentially, you know, people
00:03:06connecting their relationships between human beings.
00:03:09And it's your job to manage those relationships and facilitate them.
00:03:12So you're going to be dealing with people a lot.
00:03:15As a result, you can't really afford to be hands off.
00:03:18This is a common mistake.
00:03:19I see people launch a community, dump a bunch of members in
00:03:21and then think they can sit back and it just doesn't work like that.
00:03:25And in fact, community doesn't sleep.
00:03:28You know, I've taken vacations and had points where maybe my community
00:03:32got a bit quieter because I wasn't there driving it forward.
00:03:34Or maybe I came back to a very full inbox and tons of notifications
00:03:38I had to get back to because the community didn't stop when I wasn't there.
00:03:42And finally, members often won't actually do what you want.
00:03:45And this can feel kind of frustration.
00:03:47It's like, why are you not taking advantage of all the cool stuff in the community?
00:03:51Why are you not engaging?
00:03:52Why are you not talking to people or maybe why are you canceling?
00:03:55They're autonomous human beings.
00:03:58They're not always going to behave like robots.
00:04:00And so, again, dealing with the nuances of people
00:04:02and this ecosystem of humans in your community does come with its challenges.
00:04:07But I want to underline the benefits once again, because despite these challenges,
00:04:11it is possible to run a great community and it is super, super fun
00:04:15and rewarding if you get it right.
00:04:16Chris, I know you run the future pro group.
00:04:19How have you found that experience?
00:04:20I think every point you've outlined is 100 percent true.
00:04:24100 percent true. They don't do what you want.
00:04:26They're like cats in a room.
00:04:28And sometimes they behave and sometimes, you know, we introduce new learning paths,
00:04:32new tools and resources.
00:04:34We have an agent to help them, but they just don't do it.
00:04:38And it's it's like you have to kind of approach this as you can put
00:04:42the best intentions forward, but you have to constantly.
00:04:45I don't know if this is the right word, but train or encourage people
00:04:49to use the things that you've built for them in order for them to succeed.
00:04:53You kind of have to nudge them along the way.
00:04:55Yeah. And part of community I've had to come to terms with is
00:04:58you can do everything right.
00:05:00You can do all the right strategies.
00:05:01You can really, really care.
00:05:03And it's just not going to work out with some members.
00:05:06And that's fine.
00:05:07That's all part of it.
00:05:08And I'm going to break down some tactical things today
00:05:11that you can do to try and give yourself the best chance of success.
00:05:13What I really want you to get from today.
00:05:16And I was talking to Chris about this before we we went live here.
00:05:19But I've been doing this for 20 years now.
00:05:22I've been pretty deep in the community world.
00:05:24I'm CEO of Design Cuts.
00:05:26We're at a million members now and have a real thriving community there.
00:05:30And I've taken all that experience and distilled it recently
00:05:33into the most comprehensive community course on the market.
00:05:35It's nine hours long, 12 modules and 45 lessons.
00:05:38And when I set up this this workshop with Chris, I said, OK,
00:05:42how can I take all of that material and condense it down
00:05:45to less than one hour and give it away for free?
00:05:48So my intention today is to try and give you all the foundations
00:05:51of what it takes to build a successful community
00:05:54and essentially give you the highlight reel from my wider course,
00:05:57because I'm not going to be able to include every bit of nuance,
00:06:00every practical exercise in the course.
00:06:02But I can give you the really, really key big steps
00:06:05that are going to guide you in building your community.
00:06:07So if you're ready, let's dive in.
00:06:11Step one is choose your topic.
00:06:14I feel like people can really overthink this.
00:06:16But for me, it comes down to these three areas, something you're passionate about,
00:06:21something you have genuine experience and credibility in
00:06:24and something where perhaps you see an opportunity.
00:06:27Maybe the market is underserved or there's not a ton of great
00:06:31communities existing already or people are hungry for something like this.
00:06:34If you can get these three areas right, you give yourself half a chance of success.
00:06:39Chris, I know you've talked about ikigai and variants of this,
00:06:42but it really comes down to the same thing, right?
00:06:44It's like, what are you good at?
00:06:46What are you going to have passion for that you can sustain that effort?
00:06:48And what is something the world needs?
00:06:50That's right.
00:06:51This is a different way to describe similar concepts.
00:06:55So 100 percent.
00:06:56And I guess ikigai sounds kind of nicer and fancier than P.O.
00:07:00or however you say this.
00:07:02It's a terrible acronym.
00:07:03Yes, the acronym is not sexy looking.
00:07:06So once you've decided your topic and like I say, it could be anything.
00:07:12It could be, you know, as broad as a community helping marketers
00:07:16or it could be as narrow as the one I mentioned earlier,
00:07:19helping people into face painting.
00:07:21Once you have this, you should craft your value proposition.
00:07:24And the simplest way I can explain how to do this is your community name
00:07:29helps this type of person achieve this type of outcome.
00:07:33Because communities ultimately are going to help members achieve something.
00:07:36Maybe that's feeling less lonely.
00:07:38Maybe it's landing that dream job.
00:07:40Whatever it is, your community should be the vessel
00:07:43for them achieving that success or outcome.
00:07:45Well, let's give it an example here.
00:07:48How do you describe design cuts?
00:07:49Let's both you and I put ourselves into this so that people can see what it sounds.
00:07:53I want to show how people get it wrong first before showing them how to get it right.
00:07:56Because this is a super common mistake.
00:08:00I ask so many people, what's your value proposition for your community?
00:08:03And they're kind of mumble something like, well, my community helps people
00:08:06in the middle age stage alive who are trying to self actualize
00:08:09and reach their fullest potential across a wide spectrum of endeavors
00:08:12while staying true and on and on and on.
00:08:15And Chris, I know you're not so specifically involved in the community world,
00:08:19but you help people all the time, right?
00:08:20I'm sure you see something similar.
00:08:22Yeah, it's just a lot of word salad here.
00:08:24Yeah, word salad. Exactly.
00:08:27So this is a little test which I kind of came up with myself.
00:08:30The podcast test.
00:08:32Can you confidently and concisely deliver your value proposition
00:08:36every time you're interviewed on a podcast?
00:08:38Because if it's this, if it's the long garbled one,
00:08:41you're not going to be able to repeat that word for word every single time,
00:08:45which proves it's not an effective one.
00:08:47But you hear really, really great speakers and people that have nailed this.
00:08:51And you're listening to 20 different podcasts
00:08:53and they're saying the same thing verbatim every single time.
00:08:56So my one for learn community is learn community
00:08:59helps you to launch and grow a successful online community.
00:09:02Pretty short and snappy, right?
00:09:04I don't need to reinvent the wheel or explain that 50 different ways.
00:09:08It's like that's who we are and what we do.
00:09:10Hopefully. Yeah, hopefully that makes sense, Chris.
00:09:12So I'm going to try it. I'm going to try. Yeah, let's do this.
00:09:15Yeah. So the future pro group helps creative entrepreneurs scale their business.
00:09:20And you know what's so good about that?
00:09:23People can self identify. So that crucial bit creative entrepreneurs.
00:09:27People will hear that and say, hold on, that sounds like me.
00:09:30I'm an entrepreneur, but I'm definitely more on the creative side.
00:09:33I'm in a creative industry and such.
00:09:35And it's speaking to their goals and their pain points.
00:09:38You know, they're desperate to scale. They really want to grow.
00:09:40So in one sentence, it's like that's for me and it gives me something I want.
00:09:44Like short, snappy and effective.
00:09:46You should really teach this stuff. Chris, anyone ever tell you?
00:09:50OK, so step two, consider what you actually want to offer inside your community.
00:09:55And honestly, like I can and have talked for an hour just about this.
00:09:59But I'll give you the kind of top level view of how I think about this.
00:10:01There's four different types of value that your membership community can offer.
00:10:05Help, action, learning and connection.
00:10:08Help is, let's say, a space for people to ask questions.
00:10:12And I'm sure you have something similar in the future program, right, Chris?
00:10:15They're like, I need help with this. I'm really stuck.
00:10:17And then you and your team and other members can go and help them, which is awesome.
00:10:21This happens all the time. Yeah.
00:10:23And what's beautiful is the community members helping each other.
00:10:26And then the next one is action, because if people aren't taking action,
00:10:30they're just kind of spinning their wheels.
00:10:32So this is where you can bring in things like sprints or boot camps or challenges
00:10:37where you're basically just guiding and pushing people to take action.
00:10:41And even better, if you can do that as a group, because if you're there
00:10:44with like minded people and you're achieving something over the course of like a week
00:10:48or a day or a month, you're going to collectively feel really good
00:10:51and you're going to appreciate the community more.
00:10:53It's like from being a member of this community, I achieved something.
00:10:57So action is huge. The next one is learning.
00:10:59And again, this can come in loads of different forms.
00:11:01It could be workshops.
00:11:04It could be a knowledge base.
00:11:06It could be content and material in the community, or it could be a course.
00:11:10So there's lots of different ways to teach.
00:11:12But I think by kind of bundling this knowledge and this training
00:11:15into your community and it could be live as well.
00:11:18By the way, you know, teaching life is fantastic or it could be a bit of a blend.
00:11:21So when I first dropped my course, I did it inside our community
00:11:25and I made it a community powered course.
00:11:27So it was like I'm going to drop a module and then I'm going to support
00:11:30that with live sessions and people can actually apply live
00:11:33what they're learning in the course and ask questions.
00:11:36It made it much more interactive.
00:11:38And then finally, there's connection.
00:11:40This one is typically quite overlooked.
00:11:43And what would you imagine?
00:11:45I mean, when I say connection, Chris, in this context,
00:11:47I would imagine how they connect with each other,
00:11:50how they do business with one another. Yeah. Right.
00:11:52So it's about forming relationships,
00:11:55maybe some business networking, something like that.
00:11:58But this is huge.
00:11:59And I'll give you an example inside learning community.
00:12:02I wanted to push connection.
00:12:05And so we were doing things like making intros between members
00:12:08or setting up kind of group chats for like minded members.
00:12:11But I actually started launching connection events where I'm like,
00:12:15we're not going to talk about work.
00:12:16It's not going to be anything professional.
00:12:18We're just going to join the call.
00:12:20And there were things like icebreakers, stupid inside jokes, people opening up
00:12:24and getting vulnerable and just chatting about personal stuff.
00:12:27And as a result, people made genuine friendships from people
00:12:31they met on the call and then engagement in the wider community lifted
00:12:34because you know what?
00:12:36You're more likely to help and interact with people
00:12:39if you have context on them.
00:12:40Think of any community where you're a member.
00:12:42You're much more likely to help the person
00:12:44where you have a kind of loose friendship with them instead of a complete stranger.
00:12:47So by building connection, you kind of feed all the other parts of your community.
00:12:51Super important. We do something similar.
00:12:53We're using air meets. Have you used air meets before?
00:12:56I'm not personally using it, but I'm pretty sure I'm aware of it.
00:13:00Yeah. How are you finding it? We like it a lot.
00:13:02We do these once a month, and there's two components of it
00:13:05that we really like. Number one is speed networking.
00:13:07So you have five minutes to connect with somebody
00:13:10and we give you a quick prompt on how to introduce yourself
00:13:12and talk about what what you need help with and how you can help serve other people.
00:13:18Then when the speed networking stuff is done, that usually runs
00:13:20for about 30 minutes or five or six cycles.
00:13:23Then we we release people to tables and tables are cool
00:13:27because they're organized by subjects.
00:13:29And you can you can sit at a table and leave.
00:13:31You could participate. You can do whatever you want.
00:13:34So it's way more interactive.
00:13:35So we set up tables for people who are interested in video production
00:13:39or social media, marketing or branding or coaching.
00:13:42And they sit at those tables or ones just called catching up
00:13:45and you sit there and people, their self, they run, they run by themselves.
00:13:49There's no agenda.
00:13:50And the these calls usually set up for 90 minutes.
00:13:53But we'll log back in a couple of hours later and people are still hanging out there.
00:13:57So it's it's really neat to see you just landed on two things.
00:14:00And I don't want to skip ahead too much here,
00:14:02but these are two foundational pillars of building community.
00:14:05So number one is that it should happen when you're not there.
00:14:09And as you just said, you leave these calls and the value continues, right?
00:14:14It's not that everyone should be interacting with you personally.
00:14:17The second part is to be a great community builder.
00:14:19You should be a great facilitator.
00:14:21And again, it is not like social media, like you've constantly got the mike.
00:14:25All eyes on you.
00:14:27Everyone's hanging off your every word.
00:14:29A lot of it is about getting out of the way, creating the structure
00:14:32and the spaces to enable connection for your members.
00:14:36So you're putting people in groups, you're bringing them together,
00:14:40you're organizing them, you're creating the themes, you're doing a lot of the,
00:14:43you know, facilitation and logistics, and then you're getting out of the way
00:14:46and letting your members find value through each other.
00:14:49Super underrated people go into community thinking
00:14:52in a social media mindset that it's all about them and it's not.
00:14:56It's about we, not me.
00:14:58Well, speak for yourself and it's all about me.
00:15:01I'm just kidding.
00:15:03I when we do these air meets, I try not to pop into rooms
00:15:08for tables too much because then everybody just shuts up and then wants me to talk.
00:15:12And then it becomes a lot more training or coaching, which is fine.
00:15:15I don't mind that.
00:15:16But then it doesn't allow the community members to get to know each other.
00:15:19So I'm deliberately kind of staying on the outside,
00:15:22just kind of peering in now, not wanting to interrupt what they're doing.
00:15:25I think it's a good approach.
00:15:27Someone told me recently the kids have more fun when the teachers out of the room.
00:15:32So they might learn more when you're in the room.
00:15:35But, you know, they probably connect more when you're not.
00:15:37Let's keep going here.
00:15:38Step three, plan your finances like any business.
00:15:42If you're actually planning to turn this into a business or even a profitable
00:15:45side hustle, make sense to actually think about money.
00:15:48There's two steps because people really over over kind of complicate money.
00:15:52But there's two main things I try and think about.
00:15:54Number one is how much do you actually need to earn?
00:15:57And really, this is what is your take home goal, which, you know,
00:16:00should, of course, be after costs and after tax and all that good stuff.
00:16:04So how much do you want in your pocket at the end of the day?
00:16:07And then how much can you realistically earn?
00:16:09And this is where sometimes I have to give people a reality check
00:16:13because they're like, I want my community to with very little effort
00:16:16and like, you know, two hundred and fifty thousand in the first year.
00:16:19But I have no experience and no audience and no way of reaching members
00:16:23and no track record of doing anything online,
00:16:25in which case that might be unrealistic.
00:16:28So what do you need and what can you actually achieve?
00:16:31Is this kind of remotely similar to any frameworks that you use, Chris?
00:16:35Yeah, I use something like this for calculating your project fees.
00:16:39And it's based on what you need to live and live comfortably
00:16:44divided by the time in which you can actually realistically work
00:16:47and the number of projects you want to take on per month.
00:16:50So that is very similar. Nice.
00:16:52I do think that crucial context of what can they realistically earn
00:16:56is often missed, though, right, because we're not all exactly the same.
00:16:59Like Chris, you have a higher hourly rate than I do.
00:17:03And with your personal brand, you can and should come on that.
00:17:07And that's fine.
00:17:08Like I don't expect to be able to charge the market what you charge.
00:17:11We're at different places currently.
00:17:14Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you have a few years on me, so I'm trying just a few.
00:17:18Yeah. And I have a much more expensive shopping habits.
00:17:21So I got to have it.
00:17:23All right. So here's six pricing considerations
00:17:28just to make this exercise a bit easier for people.
00:17:30Number one, like I say, how much do you actually need to earn?
00:17:34So does this community need to support you full time?
00:17:37Or is it perhaps more of a side hustle?
00:17:39In which case it's not so pressing to earn a whole time.
00:17:42What percentage do you want the community to be of your total income?
00:17:46So are you going to have other income streams or consulting or something like that?
00:17:49Or is it all resting on this community?
00:17:52So what is your need figure?
00:17:54Which is, as Chris says, going to cover your living costs.
00:17:57Do you have a recommendation on what is a good percentage of your starting out?
00:18:01It really varies.
00:18:02And I think this is this is the key, right?
00:18:06Often I get questions from community builders
00:18:09and I always say I can't give you one size fits all because there's going to be
00:18:13someone who is building a hobby community
00:18:18that they want to turn into a profitable side hustle and they have very limited time.
00:18:21And there's going to be someone else who wants to go all in
00:18:24and maybe they got some funding and they're pursuing it as a whole business venture.
00:18:27And there's a lot of gray space between.
00:18:29So I can't give a kind of arbitrary percentage.
00:18:32But what I would say is I have a lot of friends
00:18:35and I kind of apply this to my own side hustle when community works.
00:18:39It can be the dominant revenue stream that everything else hangs off
00:18:43because it's much more reliable.
00:18:45And so as your community scales, things like service based income
00:18:49and consulting income can kind of fall away
00:18:51and let you really double down on that community model.
00:18:54The second part is what is a typical price for communities in your space?
00:18:58So this is basically trying to ascertain like the market rate.
00:19:01So you should research other communities in this space and try and establish a range.
00:19:06What is the low end of the market?
00:19:08What are people charging and what's the high end?
00:19:10And that typically is the range you'll be able to operate
00:19:12and unless you want to do something wildly innovative.
00:19:15So you're going to sit somewhere between these
00:19:18and it's up to you whether you want to kind of skew low or high.
00:19:21I have a different take on that. Yeah, please.
00:19:24I think you should think about the experience that you want to create.
00:19:26So if you are interested in having lots of people, then you can afford
00:19:31to charge a little bit less and know that each person gets a little bit less
00:19:34attention from you or the or the resources that you you want to give.
00:19:38But I know a lot of people want to send everybody that's in their community
00:19:42a box of goodies like books and a welcome kit not cost money.
00:19:47And so we know that whenever you're visiting a new town,
00:19:51you have a lot of options from Airbnb to Inns and motels
00:19:55to the Ritz Carlton or the Four Seasons.
00:19:58I think you have to start thinking about what kind of experience you want to create.
00:20:01So I think people in your space give you a starting point,
00:20:05but then you have to add the X factor.
00:20:08Do you want to do a little less, a little bit more and create a really
00:20:11bespoke experience for each member?
00:20:13Then you can charge a little bit more. Yeah, great minds.
00:20:16I have a somewhat similar slide, but I really like how you put it better,
00:20:20to be honest. So what is the ROI for members?
00:20:23And this kind of speaks to the experience.
00:20:25But how much value is your community realistically going to bring members?
00:20:29And this is not just monetary.
00:20:30As Chris touched on there, it's it's about experience.
00:20:33So if you're going to blow them away and give them the Ritz Carlton experience,
00:20:36that's pretty high ROI and you could expect to charge a bit more.
00:20:40You also need to think about how necessary the community is,
00:20:43because some communities are kind of nice to have,
00:20:45where people are going to cut that out of their life pretty quick if funds get tight.
00:20:48But others may help them generate life changing results
00:20:52or just be such an incredible experience.
00:20:54They would never want to give that up.
00:20:56Number four is what model do you actually want for your community?
00:20:59Because if you're doing a VIP mastermind for 10 people,
00:21:04which is still a form of community, that's going to be super high ticket
00:21:07and expensive versus doing a scalable forum community with 400 members.
00:21:12They're going to be on completely different pricing spectrums.
00:21:14Number five is what price can you realistically command?
00:21:17And again, this is that kind of reality check I touched on, where it's like,
00:21:21be honest about your reputation, your audience size and credibility in your market,
00:21:25because an A-list influencer in a market can command more
00:21:28versus an unknown person just starting out.
00:21:31And that's fine. That's to be expected.
00:21:33We all start somewhere and we should be increasing our rates
00:21:36and our prices over time.
00:21:37And finally, and I really like this one, what price gets you excited?
00:21:41This is actually a tip from my friend Jay Clouse.
00:21:43And Jay asked me this question.
00:21:45What price would make you feel excited every time a member signs up?
00:21:48And I think it's a really interesting reframe because if a member signs up
00:21:52and you're like almost resentful, you're like, oh, that's such a low amount.
00:21:55It's not worth my time. That's not good.
00:21:57But I love it. You know, I feel pumped when a new member signs up.
00:22:01I'm like, I can't wait to jump in and serve that member.
00:22:03You know, I've been kind of staggering and increasing our membership price
00:22:07over time. I've done this like three or four times now since launch.
00:22:10And every time I increase it and then a member signs up, I get more
00:22:14and more excited versus if I look at my founding members, right?
00:22:17I'm like, yeah, I really undercharged them. That's no good.
00:22:21And I mentioned at the bottom here, the value seesaw.
00:22:24You need to get value as well as your members.
00:22:26And it needs to kind of float in equilibrium,
00:22:28because if your members get all the value and you get nothing,
00:22:31resentment is going to creep in and you won't be committed and do a good job.
00:22:34Equally, if you get all the value and all the money and the members get no value,
00:22:37they're all going to churn and it's going to destroy your reputation.
00:22:41So you want everyone to be happy, basically.
00:22:43Can we talk about this a little bit more? Yeah, let's do it.
00:22:45About the value seesaw, I like this concept.
00:22:48There's a strong visual here.
00:22:50Can you think of a time when you started some kind of subscription based service
00:22:53where you're like, ah,
00:22:55I don't I'm not feeling good about this. And what was it about it?
00:22:59Can you share something that I will as well? Yeah, totally.
00:23:02So I touched on then our founding members price for learning community.
00:23:06It was pathetically low, to be honest. I was testing the concept.
00:23:10Yeah, yeah, it was way too low. Hence, I keep increasing it.
00:23:13But yeah, it was terrible.
00:23:16I love those founding members and some of them are still with us today,
00:23:19grandfathered into that price.
00:23:21But I look at it now and I think I totally should have got like
00:23:24a quarter of the number of members, but at a much higher price
00:23:28with everything that I continue to learn.
00:23:30And I priced it from a insecure and poor psychological place.
00:23:36How about you? Have you got an example?
00:23:39Yeah, well, first of all, thanks for sharing so openly and transparently
00:23:43in just the level of self-awareness and the confidence to be able to say that.
00:23:46And I think that's where a lot of people run into.
00:23:49They're like, oh, my God, you like me?
00:23:50OK, here's give me five bucks and I'll give you all of my resources
00:23:54and we'll spend 10 hours in the community.
00:23:57I think where this starts to become something
00:23:59where you start to build resentment is the amount of energy
00:24:03you have to put into it versus what you get out of it.
00:24:06It's hard to say like there's a very hard and fast rule,
00:24:09but just think of it in those terms.
00:24:11Communities are very different than, say, client relationship,
00:24:14where we know this is going to be a pain in the butt
00:24:16and they're going to have a lot of expectations on us.
00:24:19And we can hold our nose for a period of time and get through the project.
00:24:23But a community is ongoing.
00:24:25It's organic and it never sleeps, as you mentioned before, Tom.
00:24:28So you kind of have to think about that.
00:24:30There have been a couple of times where I think to myself,
00:24:32gosh, I think I'm doing a little bit too much when you feel like
00:24:36you work for the community.
00:24:38Yeah. And whereas you're not the community leader.
00:24:40So what I what I mean by that?
00:24:42Well, let's say they start bombarding you with like technical problems.
00:24:45I can't log in or where is this resource?
00:24:48And we asked for this four weeks ago.
00:24:50So now you're beholden to them.
00:24:52And it's like now you're you're working for them as an employee.
00:24:55And it doesn't feel good.
00:24:57So I think when you start to get a decent amount of people in your communities
00:25:01and you charge whatever you think, and then you start to do the math,
00:25:04you're like, wow, every single month I can buy a new car.
00:25:07That's pretty dope.
00:25:08So if they want to reach out and quote unquote, harass me, I'm good with that,
00:25:12because that's what that's what is required.
00:25:14Now, I have a very expensive community.
00:25:17It's three thousand dollars a month and there are 10 people in it.
00:25:21So that's generating about thirty thousand dollars a month for me.
00:25:23But the amount of attention and energy
00:25:26I have to put into it is sometimes overwhelming for me.
00:25:29I love working with those community members, but shoot, it's very demanding.
00:25:33So I'm like exhausted after every call because I was like, I have to be on point
00:25:38because they expect so much for paying three thousand dollars a month.
00:25:42Yeah, it's such a good point.
00:25:43And I think tuning into how you feel is so key because it's unsustainable.
00:25:48If you're there feeling harassed and you're not happy with that, change something.
00:25:51Right. Otherwise, you don't want to do this for the next 10 years.
00:25:54I don't think I got a slide on this, but this is my warning publicly.
00:25:59Please don't offer lifetime memberships.
00:26:02They make me very sad.
00:26:04I work with so many people that are really adamant that like,
00:26:06but it's so valuable, I really want to do it.
00:26:08And then you see them like two, three years in where the members
00:26:11are still requesting stuff from them and they're not getting a dime from that.
00:26:16And it creates this complete imbalance where you get excited
00:26:18at the moment they sign up.
00:26:21And then it just becomes increasingly imbalanced as the years go on.
00:26:24I don't like the model.
00:26:25Well, the problem with a lifetime membership is you change, you grow,
00:26:29but the membership doesn't in terms of what it does for you.
00:26:32And you may want to take a break or you might want to do something different.
00:26:35But they're like, wait, wait, wait. You promised us this thing.
00:26:38This is the way you can think about it. It's a marriage.
00:26:41So when you agree to a lifetime membership, you're getting married
00:26:44to each and every single person you make that commitment to.
00:26:47And that's a difficult thing to hold up with so many different people.
00:26:50I like the analogy.
00:26:51By the way, I don't know if you're familiar with this model, Chris,
00:26:55the Van Westendorp pricing model.
00:26:57No, it's the best pricing model I think I've ever seen.
00:27:01And if you search this on YouTube, you'll see the video thumbnail.
00:27:05I've just put up here. It's like four minutes long. Honestly, genius.
00:27:08So if you ask your audience or your network, hey,
00:27:12what do you want to pay for this community or product or whatever it might be?
00:27:15They're always going to give you a lowball answer.
00:27:18It's very ineffective. It's a poor question.
00:27:21Whereas this teaches you to ask four questions.
00:27:24And I think if I can recall them correctly, there's something like
00:27:28at what price would this be so cheap that you would really question the quality?
00:27:34At what price would you consider this to be a bargain?
00:27:38At what price would this be getting on the expensive side for you?
00:27:43And at what price would this be too expensive that it would be prohibitive for you?
00:27:47And you basically input all the data from your answers
00:27:52and you see down the bottom here, it then drops into a graph with four lines
00:27:57and where the lines intersect and form that little kind of square.
00:28:01That's your sweet spot somewhere in there.
00:28:05So it's like a very scientific way of learning from your audience
00:28:08what their sensitivity to pricing is without skewing results like a false answer.
00:28:12I like it. Yeah. Check it out for sure.
00:28:16Also use an MRR calculator.
00:28:19So MRR stands for monthly recurring revenue, which is going to be your favorite
00:28:22thing in the world once you get your community running.
00:28:24And you should at least project out a few years of revenue
00:28:28based on things like how many members you want to get
00:28:31and the price that you want to charge.
00:28:33Because often I get people to do this exercise and then they're like,
00:28:36oh, I'm never going to reach my goals because I'm really under charging
00:28:39or I'm being too ambitious with how many members I need or whatever it might be.
00:28:43So you need to figure out your revenue ceiling.
00:28:45And when you use some of these tools, they're going to tell you
00:28:48at a certain point, you're not going to be able to grow forever.
00:28:51You're going to kind of cap out at this point
00:28:53unless you ramp up your acquisition.
00:28:55So all of this might sound a little bit fancy or technical.
00:29:01To be honest, I rely on tools and there are some really, really good tools out there.
00:29:05So you can find online calculators if you Google MR calculator,
00:29:09and they're going to tell you a lot of this stuff
00:29:11and that you kind of plug your numbers in and just play around.
00:29:13But they really help you make informed decisions around what to charge
00:29:16and and what scale you're trying to build for.
00:29:19It's also really, really key to understand the power of churn.
00:29:24Churn is how many members are going to cancel in your community.
00:29:27And essentially your churn rate is going to inform your growth,
00:29:31often more so than acquisition, right?
00:29:33Everyone's so worried about attracting new members.
00:29:35But if your churn rate is bad, you're really going to struggle to grow.
00:29:38And you can see it has this compounding effect
00:29:41and see it a bit on that graph down the bottom.
00:29:43If you, for example, change the number of people canceling each month
00:29:47from 10 percent to 5 percent, that will let you grow exponentially faster,
00:29:52even if you're attracting the same number of members.
00:29:54I'm sure again, Chris, you've probably seen the impact of churn on your community.
00:29:58For sure. It's a rough one.
00:30:01It's the number I don't like looking at.
00:30:03Right. And often I get the question, what is a kind of reasonable churn?
00:30:07I think the the churn I tend to look at is
00:30:11if you're getting 10 percent or less churn month
00:30:15a month, you're doing you know, you're doing pretty good.
00:30:18If it's 5 percent or less, you're doing exceptionally well.
00:30:21If it's getting up to like 15, 20, 25 percent plus,
00:30:25you've got a bit of a leaky bucket and there's some work to be done
00:30:29to try and improve things there.
00:30:30Otherwise it's going to be hurting your business.
00:30:32But yeah, churn is really tough metaphors here.
00:30:37So we can understand there's a bucket and you can pour as much water
00:30:40into the bucket as you want.
00:30:41But if there are too many holes at the bottom,
00:30:43it could be exhausting for you to fill that bucket.
00:30:45So managing community or subscription model is based on plugging
00:30:49as many holes as possible. It will never be zero. Yeah.
00:30:52But it'll be some percentage.
00:30:54And then putting your efforts into making sure the experience is so good
00:30:57that only people who aren't a good fit wind up leaving.
00:31:00Or perhaps they, quote unquote, graduate from the community
00:31:03and they find that their business model and what they're doing
00:31:06is totally no longer
00:31:08applicable to what it is they used to come to the community for.
00:31:11So, Tom, I'm curious about whether you plan on talking about this
00:31:14or if this is a good time to ask this, which is what have you done
00:31:17to slow the churn rate down?
00:31:19I'm definitely going to cover that.
00:31:21And you will learn that churn is affected by so many things.
00:31:25He touched on some of them there on boarding, acquisition,
00:31:28finding the right members, pricing appropriately.
00:31:31I'll give a nugget now. Right.
00:31:33So your your worst enemy with churn tends to be monthly subscriptions,
00:31:38because in that case, people have 12 decisions to make throughout the year.
00:31:42There's more likelihood for things to go wrong, like card failures,
00:31:46transaction issues and whatnot.
00:31:48And monthly subscriptions tend to attract the least committed people
00:31:52because they just want to kind of trial the community
00:31:54and they're much more likely to leave,
00:31:56which is why I shifted from offering monthly and annual plans
00:31:59to now quarterly and annual.
00:32:01And I've noticed a real improvement in the quality of member
00:32:05and the retention signs look very promising.
00:32:07And I think you're the same, right, Chris? There's no monthly.
00:32:10There's no more monthly.
00:32:11Yeah, we we kind of say you got to make a nine.
00:32:13It takes 90 days to start a new habit.
00:32:16And so we get way more committed people to join.
00:32:18And I'm guessing you would never go back.
00:32:20I don't think there's a compelling reason to go back. Yeah.
00:32:24Yeah, exactly. And I see this time and time and time again.
00:32:27You generally will experience churn the most with your monthly people.
00:32:31Do you do in-person meetups when you talk about connection?
00:32:34You said that there's a connection
00:32:37event that you produce, but do you do this ever in person?
00:32:40We are planning them with design cuts.
00:32:43Given that learning community is a side hustle, there's been talk of it.
00:32:47But I'll be honest, since being a parent, my free time is very limited.
00:32:52There's a lot of stuff if I wasn't Neil is what you're saying.
00:32:55Yeah, that's yeah, that's a good way of putting it.
00:32:57But yeah, it's the dream.
00:33:00I know you have and they've been great. I've been to some of them.
00:33:02All right. Step four, choose a platform.
00:33:04I don't want to go too in depth on this because there's a whole,
00:33:08you know, separate guide I could go through for choosing platforms.
00:33:10But essentially, I go into R&D like research and development mode
00:33:14before picking a platform.
00:33:15What a lot of people do is they're like,
00:33:17are you slack? And they don't really think it through.
00:33:19So instead, try and create a list of all your platform requirements.
00:33:22Try and mark what's a must have and what's a nice to have.
00:33:25And then go and investigate different platform companies
00:33:28and, you know, create a spreadsheet like this.
00:33:31So I anonymized some of the platforms here.
00:33:33But essentially, you can see pretty clearly, it's like in this case,
00:33:37platform two would probably be the best fit because it's just within budget
00:33:41and it does everything you want apart from real time chat,
00:33:45which is a nice to have.
00:33:47So it doesn't matter too much.
00:33:48Whereas all the others kind of have inherent problems.
00:33:50This is a much more objective way of picking platforms
00:33:52instead of just like a gut feel or like a rushed decision.
00:33:55Well, out of curiosity, which is the platform you guys use?
00:33:59I think the same as you.
00:34:01So circle. That's what you guys are on, right?
00:34:03Yes, we use circle.
00:34:05And I'm really happy with it.
00:34:06Not perfect, but it's it's pretty good.
00:34:08I left the slide out here.
00:34:11That's in my main course.
00:34:12But, you know, in Good Will Hunting, you've got Robin Williams
00:34:16where he gives the whole speech of like, you know what sport like?
00:34:19She's not perfect and neither are you.
00:34:21But the question is, are you perfect for each other?
00:34:23So I feel the same way about community platforms.
00:34:26None of them are perfect,
00:34:27but there's going to be some that you kind of fall in love with.
00:34:29And that was circle for me.
00:34:31All right. Step five, validate demand.
00:34:33Find founding members.
00:34:35This is a very, very important step.
00:34:37So if you're going to pay attention to any of them, please make it this one.
00:34:40I highly advise using an application and building a waitlist.
00:34:44What you don't want to do is go away, spend months creating this community
00:34:48and designing it and building all the features and then push it out.
00:34:51And it's quicker.
00:34:52People just don't want it.
00:34:54And Chris, I'm sure with all the stuff you do on your show,
00:34:57you talk to a lot of people who talk about stuff like this, right?
00:34:59It's a very kind of tried and tested method of entrepreneurship
00:35:02beyond even just community.
00:35:05It's like you the ideal way that you launch anything,
00:35:08whether it's a product service or a community,
00:35:12is you need to have more buyers who have expressed intent
00:35:15than what you can supply.
00:35:17So when demand is greater than supply, you're in a good place.
00:35:20And it's a hard thing to do.
00:35:22It really is. It sounds like easy.
00:35:24Like, yeah, let's let's let's do a secret drop with Nike.
00:35:29Jordan Air Force ones or something like that with a limited edition collab.
00:35:33Yeah, well, the world wants that.
00:35:35But you're like, I'm launching my community.
00:35:36I only have 30 products to sell or 30 slots to fill.
00:35:39And you can't get 31 people to be interested.
00:35:42It is a tough thing.
00:35:44So I'm curious, what have you done to be able to create
00:35:47or generate demand that exceeds what you can accommodate?
00:35:52Yeah, it's a good question.
00:35:53I, I cover some of this in a little bit in terms of launch strategy.
00:35:57But I think it's not even necessarily about like cranking up demand
00:36:03at this phase is about seeing if anyone wants it forced up,
00:36:07because maybe your concept is flawed.
00:36:09You know, you really need to see are people interested at all.
00:36:13And so if you went to everyone
00:36:16who was a good prospective fit or fit your member persona
00:36:20and you said, hey, I'm building this thing, are you interested?
00:36:22Do you want to join the waitlist?
00:36:24And they all gave you a hard no.
00:36:26Yes, that is hard.
00:36:28And yes, that's demoralizing.
00:36:29But it's less hard compared to spending months building it
00:36:32and then having the same conversation, trying to sell it.
00:36:35And they tell you no at that point. Right.
00:36:37So you'd rather get the door slammed in your face early on
00:36:39before you've committed too much.
00:36:41That's the whole joy of validation.
00:36:43So as I kind of break down here, like, you know, it helps you prove demand.
00:36:48It helps you prove the concept
00:36:50and avoid this kind of crickets later on when you launch.
00:36:52It also gives you really key member data.
00:36:56So often as part of the waitlist, you can ask questions that are going to let you
00:37:00then take those ideas and shape the community with them.
00:37:03It demonstrates a real willingness from prospective members.
00:37:06And I'll give you a side tip, everyone.
00:37:07So I like having a question on my waitlist that says something like,
00:37:11which plan do you want to sign up for?
00:37:13And they choose and they're like, I want to pay this much for the annual plan
00:37:16or this month, this much for the quarterly plan.
00:37:19And you must include an option that says, sorry, I can't afford this right now
00:37:24because without that, I used to get people picking one of the others
00:37:28and I'd reach out and be like, I think you're a great fit.
00:37:30Like, do you want to join? And they're like, I have no money.
00:37:32Sorry. And I'm like, why do you apply?
00:37:36Yeah, so yeah, how about your funnels? So good. Yeah.
00:37:40Because you're such a charming guy, Tom.
00:37:43Oh, well, back at you, silver tongue devil.
00:37:45So, yeah, it also allows you to filter members against your ideal persona.
00:37:52So you get to learn about these people when they're on the waitlist.
00:37:54And you might look at some people and be like, they're an incredible fit.
00:37:57I want them in my community and other people you like.
00:37:59And I see some red flags, maybe then not going to make the cut.
00:38:03And I actually did this. So you kind of asked how I executed this.
00:38:06I had I had I know, right.
00:38:09I had some existing audience nowhere near as large as yours.
00:38:13But, you know, I had like 40K Instagram followers
00:38:16and 5000 people on my newsletter, my personal one at this point.
00:38:20And I said to myself, I want to launch this community for community builders,
00:38:25but I only want to launch if I can attract 100 founding members
00:38:29that will kind of prove demand and give me enough early cash
00:38:33to get this thing going.
00:38:34So I put out a few comms, did a bit of marketing and said,
00:38:38hey, I'm thinking of building this thing.
00:38:40I'm going to launch it soon, sign up for the waitlist.
00:38:43And I got nearly 400 applications,
00:38:47which meant I was like, cool, this is 400 people that have committed to paying.
00:38:51I whittled down.
00:38:52I had this whole traffic light system that you can kind of see here
00:38:54for like qualifying people.
00:38:56And you can see the tiny price, right?
00:38:57This is what I was talking about near near the right of that image.
00:39:00That's 10 bucks a month, 10 bucks a month or 100 for the year.
00:39:03So no wonder I got 400 people, right?
00:39:05So this pathetic little price and yeah.
00:39:08And so I filtered down and I got my 100 members.
00:39:11So I was like, cool.
00:39:12The great thing about that was not only did I prove the concept worked,
00:39:15but I was like, oh, wow, I need to go build this thing now.
00:39:18So I signed up for circle.
00:39:21I learned the circle platform.
00:39:23I built a whole community in three days because I was like,
00:39:25I got 100 people ready to pay me.
00:39:27I can't hang around now, but it's a much better way to do things that way.
00:39:30You're doing market validation, a product market fit.
00:39:33Does what I do in the price I want to charge.
00:39:38Does the market want this? Is it needed?
00:39:40And so you're doing this before you go and spend the three days
00:39:44building a community only to find out no one wants to sign up.
00:39:47Yeah. And if I didn't have 100 people waiting with money in their hand,
00:39:51I probably would not have spent three days building it.
00:39:54I probably would have spent three months
00:39:56and I would have got all perfectionist and all that other stuff.
00:39:59But when people are there waiting, it really puts a rocket up your behind.
00:40:03I think step six, build the community.
00:40:06This is what I'm talking about.
00:40:07So common mistakes. Let's kind of get into the nitty gritty.
00:40:10You should be structuring your community in a pleasant, enjoyable way
00:40:14for your members. And I see these same mistakes over and over.
00:40:16So first one is it's way too busy.
00:40:19It's got too many sections or on the circle platform.
00:40:21We call them spaces.
00:40:22People just like stuff their community with as much, you know,
00:40:26as many things as they possibly can because they think it brings more value.
00:40:29But actually, it makes it super overwhelming for members.
00:40:32The next thing is it's difficult to navigate or not intuitive.
00:40:35So maybe things are named very unclearly or it just doesn't make that much sense.
00:40:41Again, that's going to be a terrible experience for your members.
00:40:44And the final thing is a poor balance of content versus community.
00:40:48And what I mean by this is people, as I say, they stuff so much content in there
00:40:54that it kind of drowns out these spaces where people can actually connect,
00:40:58interact, ask questions, that kind of stuff.
00:41:00Because 99 percent of what's in the menu is content related.
00:41:04So it starts to feel more like a membership site, whether they're to consume content
00:41:09instead of a membership community where the primary purpose should be,
00:41:12not consumption, but connection.
00:41:15I don't know if you've experienced any of these, Chris,
00:41:17but I've definitely kind of learned by failing in some of these areas.
00:41:21Definitely number one and number three, for sure.
00:41:24We used to run our community on Facebook
00:41:27where you have very little or very few tools to organize the group.
00:41:31And so it was kind of hard to kind of create different spaces
00:41:36for conversations that happen because it was just all like one universal timeline.
00:41:41So when we went to launch our circle community, we added in everything
00:41:45that they've always wanted and what we've always wanted to do.
00:41:48And we found that if you take 100 people and you create 10 spaces,
00:41:52there's a good chance that some space will have zero activity
00:41:55and some will have too much activity.
00:41:57Yep. And you're kind of diluting your audience across these things.
00:42:01And we had to make the hard decision by shutting things down.
00:42:04This is a prime example of when less is actually more.
00:42:08Make it easier for people to figure out.
00:42:10The other thing that you want to take into consideration is for people
00:42:13who have not been on an interface like circle or community like this before,
00:42:17it can and will be very overwhelming for them to like not know where to start.
00:42:22And so the confusion part shuts them down and they can't.
00:42:25It's like too much of a cognitive load, too much processing going on.
00:42:28So they elect to do nothing.
00:42:30Yep. They will very likely be the people who are part of your churn rate
00:42:35because they're like, I'm not getting value from this.
00:42:37It's too complicated. Yeah. So less is more.
00:42:39And the last one, the bottom one is something that we we struggle with
00:42:42because I'm a teacher.
00:42:44I think they want more teaching and more content.
00:42:46And so it got to a point where we are running so many calls
00:42:49and having so many subject matter experts teach things
00:42:54that they're like, we just can't do this anymore.
00:42:57And it's kind of wild to say like, oh, if you like chocolate,
00:43:00here's all you can eat chocolate.
00:43:02And it turns out, first of all, it's not good.
00:43:04And they've come diabetic.
00:43:05It's like, oh, we should we should not do this. Thank you.
00:43:08I appreciate you sharing that because the fact is myself and Chris
00:43:12and even people that, you know, run successful communities,
00:43:15we're constantly learning and we will still make mistakes.
00:43:18And it's trial and error forever.
00:43:21And that's kind of disheartening and freeing, I think, all at the same time,
00:43:25because it makes you realize like it's fine to make mistakes.
00:43:28It's just about tweaking and adjusting and iterating as you go.
00:43:31Also, I know your audience, Chris, are all about brand.
00:43:35You're all about brand. I love brand as well.
00:43:37And I definitely think communities deserve to have their own brand.
00:43:41Right. We shouldn't overlook this when you're building community.
00:43:44I think a good starting point can often be choose three to five words
00:43:48that you want people to associate with your community or use to describe that.
00:43:53So I don't know if any spring to mind, Chris, for a future.
00:43:57Generous, professional.
00:43:59I can see that ambitious,
00:44:02creative.
00:44:04Those are the four words I can think of while you put me on the spot.
00:44:06And you know what?
00:44:07I think they're great because I know other communities
00:44:10that are probably less professional and less ambitious than the future.
00:44:14And I think what you've built has a certain bar
00:44:17of like quality and commitment about it that differentiates it.
00:44:20So, yeah, I think that's a great set of words.
00:44:24What are the three to five words you use to describe your community?
00:44:26You can see them here at the top.
00:44:28So this is for learning community, practical and actionable,
00:44:32because you can probably tell I really hate vague generalisms and theories.
00:44:35I'm like, show me exactly how to do it and how to implement it.
00:44:39Helpful and supportive.
00:44:41And this is like extends to our culture and our members.
00:44:44But I get back to every single question and provide unlimited help
00:44:48because I can do that at the scale that we run it right now.
00:44:50And I really love helping people.
00:44:52So that's like I kind of get a kick out of doing that personal and open.
00:44:56So this is like being vulnerable and being human and sharing and fun,
00:45:00because I think all too often we can get bogged down in
00:45:04in the work and like it can get quite heavy and overwhelming.
00:45:08And I have to remind myself often I'm like to stop and like chill and have some fun.
00:45:12It's like maybe people don't need more work and, you know, tasks to do.
00:45:17Maybe we could just hang out and have some fun.
00:45:18And I think members would like that, too. Yeah.
00:45:21So I don't know if you do anything similar with your brand work, Chris,
00:45:25but I like breaking down touch points in the community
00:45:29and then kind of scoring them against these brand words.
00:45:32So this is a bit out of date now.
00:45:35But when I first put this together, there were definitely areas
00:45:38where I looked at it and I'm like, hmm, like we're kind of failing.
00:45:42We're not really hitting these touch points.
00:45:43So, you know, people experiencing that are not having the brand experience I want.
00:45:48And one example is Circle offer like a default weekly digest that goes out,
00:45:53which is really convenient.
00:45:55You know, if you haven't got time to do a custom one and it's good
00:45:57that it does it for you.
00:45:59But in my case, I'm like, this is failing.
00:46:01It's not hitting my brand words because it's like an automated thing.
00:46:04So I stopped that going out and now I do a custom newsletter
00:46:08that's much more friendly and on brand and has my tone of voice and stuff.
00:46:12So I turn that thing around.
00:46:14So you can kind of quite systematically ensure that your community is on brand
00:46:18by doing a bit of an order of how you set it up.
00:46:21We are when you're breaking out tables and things like that.
00:46:24I'm like, dang, all right.
00:46:26You can tell I've been really, really deep in this world,
00:46:28you know, for a long time, but especially since we chatted two years ago,
00:46:32I've been so deep in figuring this stuff out.
00:46:34I also looked a lot younger and less tired when we chatted two years ago.
00:46:37I went and watched that parent heard it.
00:46:39It hammers you like, all right, step seven, plan and create culture.
00:46:43Culture is so important because if community is all about connections
00:46:46and relationships and human beings, then the culture that binds them together
00:46:49is one of the most powerful things.
00:46:51So what is community culture?
00:46:52It is the expected behaviors and values shared by the group
00:46:57and successful culture should be clear and easy to understand.
00:47:01It should attract the right kind of members into your community
00:47:04and put off the wrong kind of members.
00:47:06It should be something upheld and championed by the members,
00:47:08even when you're not there.
00:47:09And it should be consistent across the community
00:47:11rather than something that kind of ebbs and flows.
00:47:13I thought you might appreciate this example, Chris.
00:47:15But in Cobra Kai, you've got Miyagi Do and Cobra Kai.
00:47:20You could say that they are kind of communities, you know, the karate schools
00:47:25and they're achieving the same outcome.
00:47:27They're literally trying to get their students into the All Valley tournament.
00:47:29They're training them in karate.
00:47:31But they are vastly different in terms of their cultures, right?
00:47:34One's like really mean and violent.
00:47:37And what's the the Cobra Kai motto, right?
00:47:40It's like no mercy or something.
00:47:41Yeah. Also, it's strike first, strike hard, strike fast.
00:47:44And the karate school that you're talking about is called a dojo.
00:47:49Let me help you.
00:47:53Are you just trying to sneak in your last name?
00:47:55But you can tell a lot about these two communities, if you will,
00:47:59to to use your parlance here.
00:48:01Cobra Kai, it's the it's it's like a gang and there's a bunch of them
00:48:06and they wear black and they're non-traditional
00:48:08because they all have like sleeveless geese.
00:48:12And then Miyagi Do is basically the one old man
00:48:15who's kind of like a gardener guy who works on cars.
00:48:17And they only have one student, Daniel LaRusso.
00:48:21So it's community of two.
00:48:23And they're very intimate.
00:48:24And it's like a father son relationship where Cobra Kai
00:48:28is an abusive father son relationship.
00:48:30This is something we've done very intentionally from day one with design cuts.
00:48:33You know, we regularly see we've got thousands of five star reviews now
00:48:37and we see it on our live events.
00:48:39And people are like, I really love the vibe of this community,
00:48:42the feel of this community.
00:48:44And I think that's, you know, at the heart of what we're trying to build there.
00:48:47So when it comes to learn community, I had very intentional traits.
00:48:50I wanted it to be welcoming and inclusive, supportive and kind,
00:48:55practical and actionable, go really deep into problems instead of surface level.
00:48:58Be personal and thoughtful, honest, open and vulnerable and no hierarchy.
00:49:04I wanted it to be very egalitarian.
00:49:06Everyone's opinion matters.
00:49:07Something you can do, I would definitely put together traits
00:49:10that you would love to see in your members,
00:49:12but also try and map the antithesis to this.
00:49:15So what are traits that you really don't want as part of your culture?
00:49:18And I don't want people that are pushy or spammy, judgmental or mean, selfish,
00:49:23feeling like a pressure to show up.
00:49:25So there are some communities where it's like,
00:49:26you must engage every single week or we're going to kick you out.
00:49:29And I didn't want to build that.
00:49:30People who take more than they give.
00:49:32People with poor ethics or morals or people that are overly serious
00:49:35and can't have fun.
00:49:36We haven't had many, but, you know, we've had a couple of members
00:49:38who joined and maybe have gone against the culture and you can really feel it.
00:49:42And when you've defined it, you can identify why that's happening.
00:49:44Have you done anything like this, Chris, or do you just kind of,
00:49:48you know, perhaps have it in your mind right now?
00:49:50We actually have a code of conduct that's pinned to our community
00:49:55and it outlines certain behaviors that we encourage
00:49:58and some things that we say, if you break this, you will be asked to leave.
00:50:01It's powerful.
00:50:02And I love like if you have that pinned for everyone to see
00:50:05as a constant reference point, it's really useful.
00:50:08So how can you build community culture?
00:50:10Because I'm sure we all agree it's very important.
00:50:12But there are specific things that you can do.
00:50:14First thing is lead by example.
00:50:16So much comes from the leader.
00:50:18It's the same way you and I are CEOs in our company.
00:50:21We kind of demonstrate the behavior we'd like to see in our teams
00:50:24or in this case, in our members encourage positive behaviors.
00:50:27So I love to recognize and call out, you know, it could be a public shout out.
00:50:32I've sent voice notes to people being like,
00:50:33you are just being amazing right now in the community.
00:50:35I really appreciate you.
00:50:36And you can also build culture traits into your idol member persona
00:50:42when you're being intentional and thinking, OK, who do I want in the community?
00:50:45I want to make sure my landing page speaks to them.
00:50:48When you're clear on the trades
00:50:51that factors into those kind of key marketing decisions as well.
00:50:55All right. Step eight, plan community events.
00:50:58There's a whole bunch you can do, and I'm going to kind of whip through these.
00:51:00I'm sure you do some of these, Chris, but I wanted to give an overview
00:51:03for people just who are curious about what can I even offer for my members?
00:51:06The first one is AMAs, I ask me anythings or office hours.
00:51:10This is a regular slot where members can join and ask questions.
00:51:14One on one attention is super valuable.
00:51:16So if someone gets a slot to ask a question and in Chris's case,
00:51:19learn from him, that's very valuable for them.
00:51:21And just a tip, if you're struggling with engagement around this, try theming them.
00:51:26This is something that I've implemented recently.
00:51:29And I think often people don't know what they don't know.
00:51:31So if it's super open, it's like, come and ask anything that can be intimidating.
00:51:35But if it's like, come and ask a question around.
00:51:37We did one about engagement recently.
00:51:40More people show up because that kind of prompts them to think of a question
00:51:43around that topic, and they know that everyone else's question
00:51:46is going to be relevant to an area they care about right now versus
00:51:50they're going to join in every other question is going to be like super random.
00:51:53Next up, one on one coaching.
00:51:54You can actually offer this in a scaled community
00:51:56and let people just book in for a limited number of one on one slots with you.
00:52:01So in my community, I call these deep dives and essentially
00:52:04occasionally announce and be like, we've got some free slots
00:52:07and they look up pretty quick.
00:52:08But people love them because they're essentially getting like one on one
00:52:11consulting time, but other members can watch that conversation happen live
00:52:15or watch the replay and learn from it.
00:52:16Workshops. So you or your team could actually show up and teach a specific thing.
00:52:22Also, members can.
00:52:24And I'm going to get into that a little more in a second.
00:52:26Socials. I talked about this before, but you know, it doesn't have to be
00:52:29all about work.
00:52:30You can have social events or connection based events
00:52:32where people can just hang out, have fun and make friends.
00:52:34Connection.
00:52:36So going a bit deeper into this again, you can structure it with ice breakers.
00:52:40I use breakout rooms as well in zoom, which is super powerful.
00:52:43You can pair people off and get them talking about some pretty vulnerable stuff,
00:52:47which can be really, really powerful. Show and tell.
00:52:50So, Chris, I don't know if you do anything like this, but I love basically
00:52:54seeing a member doing something incredible with their community and then say,
00:52:57hey, can we host a session where I kind of half interview you?
00:53:01You have to workshop, but we basically like break down
00:53:04what you're doing successfully so that everyone else can learn from it.
00:53:08I have a question for you here.
00:53:09It just dawned on me something here.
00:53:11Yeah, yeah. Please. Is is your community.
00:53:13A community for people who want to build communities.
00:53:17It's for people who want to launch a community
00:53:20if if they have an idea for one and they need help launching it
00:53:22or they're running one and they're kind of struggling.
00:53:25They're like, I my engagement is not what I want it to be.
00:53:28I'm feeling a bit lost.
00:53:30It's not growing like I want it to be.
00:53:32So, yeah, it's very inception like very meta.
00:53:36Yeah, it definitely is.
00:53:37Yeah, which I love because loads of people actually join
00:53:40just to see how I'm running my community and then steal that
00:53:44and implement it for those which I'm like, please feel free.
00:53:47Like it's great.
00:53:48So, yeah, we do showcases.
00:53:50But yeah, you could map this to anything like in the future pro.
00:53:53It could be like this members crushing it like landing clients.
00:53:56So we're going to, you know, break down how they're doing it.
00:53:58So it doesn't all have to come from you, Chris interviews.
00:54:00So again, this this could be about anything.
00:54:03It doesn't have to be in a showcase format.
00:54:05It could be more free flowing or just learning about
00:54:08some of your more inspiring members shining a light on them role play.
00:54:11Chris, I've seen you do this a lot, actually, and people seem to love it
00:54:14where you get into that like be the client, you be the salesman kind of thing.
00:54:18Definitely works in community.
00:54:20You've done it on Twitter spaces and such as well.
00:54:23But it goes down pretty well, right?
00:54:25Yeah, I love doing this.
00:54:27It's kind of part teaching and part improv.
00:54:30Yeah, exactly.
00:54:31Yeah, people, people find it engaging content as well, I think.
00:54:35This is an interesting one that I thought about recently.
00:54:37It could be that there's something really topical going on.
00:54:40So like in the creative industry, a lot of people are concerned about AI.
00:54:43Some people are freaking out.
00:54:44If that impacts your members, you could have a bit of a town hall
00:54:48where it's like, this is happening right now.
00:54:50Let's talk about it.
00:54:52And people can find that really, really valuable, I think.
00:54:54It's good if you have a framework for discussing things,
00:54:57if you've been trained to be kind of a group coach or group therapy.
00:55:01If you're not, it can actually make the problem worse
00:55:05because people talk about it.
00:55:06And the more they talk about it, the more toxic it becomes.
00:55:08And if there isn't a clear plan and helping to support members,
00:55:12it can actually exacerbate the problem.
00:55:14It's a great point. Yeah.
00:55:16And again, this comes back to being a good facilitator.
00:55:19So you should come.
00:55:20You should be a good kind of, you know, chairperson for the conversation,
00:55:23if you will, have a structure, set expectations, guide the conversation,
00:55:27help moderate.
00:55:28These are the skills of a great community builder feedback meeting.
00:55:32So this can be used to actually learn from your members
00:55:35how to improve the community.
00:55:36So it could literally be like, here's some stuff with planning.
00:55:39What do you all think?
00:55:40Like, how's everyone getting on doing that in a live setting
00:55:43can be incredibly impactful and retreats.
00:55:46We touched on this before. Super fun.
00:55:48I'm in a few communities as a member.
00:55:50One of them is a group called Founders in the UK for entrepreneurs.
00:55:54I'm also in community pros of London,
00:55:57and I've been to in-person retreat several times, and they're awesome.
00:56:00Like people love in real life.
00:56:02And as much as I'm championing online membership communities
00:56:06on this call, I truly think that in real life is where the most magic happens.
00:56:12So if you can bolt that on. Fantastic.
00:56:14And finally, don't burn out because you might be seeing all this stuff.
00:56:18And again, you're tempted to content stuff or in this case, event stuff,
00:56:21because you can you want to show up and serve your members.
00:56:24Super easy to burn out. Events take a lot out of you.
00:56:27So if I start minimal, don't do too many.
00:56:31Don't overcommit because it's a lot easier to ramp up over time
00:56:34instead of take these away.
00:56:36And also consider the time around just being live,
00:56:39because most of these is not just like show up and talk off the top of your head.
00:56:42Some of them take preparation.
00:56:44You have to organize the replays and the content and structure all of that.
00:56:47So there's often more work than people realize. Hence, start simple.
00:56:51And member led is your friend.
00:56:53It's less work for you.
00:56:55It's often better content.
00:56:56And what I found and I've seen this echoed by many, many
00:56:59very talented community builders that I'm friends with.
00:57:01Often your members actually prefer that content, which kind of hurts at first.
00:57:05It's like, but I'm going to be the expert.
00:57:07They're going to respect and appreciate me.
00:57:09And actually, when your members grab the mic and they start teaching something,
00:57:12I think it just adds fresh perspectives, variety.
00:57:16It shouldn't be a one person show.
00:57:19And so I love leaning into member led content.
00:57:22And you can see a couple of examples here like, you know,
00:57:25they're always super fun.
00:57:26People really enjoy them.
00:57:27And yeah, I like the variety it creates.
00:57:29Step nine, launch up until now.
00:57:32We've been exploring, you know, you're trying to validate demand.
00:57:35You've got the concept in mind.
00:57:36People have proven they want it.
00:57:38You're getting some applications and you planned your events.
00:57:41How do you actually launch this thing?
00:57:44So once you've hopefully built this wait list,
00:57:46you want to try and create a launch offer that really converts.
00:57:49I'm a huge fan of leveraging urgency and scarcity.
00:57:52They're two of the best kind of pillars or levers when it comes to marketing.
00:57:56So try something like a limited time discount for founding members,
00:57:59perhaps limited time bonuses or better yet, a member cap.
00:58:03And the third one is my favorite because increasingly I'm going off
00:58:07the idea of discounts and instead I lean more into scarcity.
00:58:10It's much better than saying like you get 50 percent off adjoining.
00:58:14It's much better to say we're only going to let in 20 members
00:58:18for this first cohort and people fight over those 20 slots
00:58:22and there's no discount required.
00:58:24Has that been your experience as well, Chris?
00:58:26Yeah, I think that's the preferred way to go.
00:58:28Yeah, I think you want to say this group is valuable.
00:58:31The reason why it's valuable is because it's going to be very intimate
00:58:33and we're going to spend time working with you and learning from you.
00:58:37So I prefer doing that versus giving a discount.
00:58:41I abhor discounts, by the way. Yeah, I know you do.
00:58:43But yeah, I agree, and I've definitely shifted that way, too.
00:58:49You can also lock members in.
00:58:51You don't have to discount for this, but what you can say is
00:58:54I will be increasing the price in the future.
00:58:56This means that if they're locked in, not only do they feel good,
00:59:00they got in at the rate because they see it go up in six months or a year
00:59:03and think like, I feel really good about my rate.
00:59:05They'll be less likely to cancel
00:59:07because if they cancel and want to rejoin, they're going to have to pay more.
00:59:11And I had this.
00:59:13I invested using a team in the States
00:59:16to help remotely consult and help me build my studio
00:59:19that we're looking at right now that you complimented me on earlier, Chris.
00:59:21And it was a lot of money at the time.
00:59:24I'm not going to lie.
00:59:25You know, I wanted to take it serious and I do a lot of events and courses.
00:59:29So I invested, but it kind of hurt
00:59:31until I saw that they have increased the price nearly 300%
00:59:36in 18 months since I paid for it.
00:59:40So now I look at that price and I'm like, man, I got a steal.
00:59:44Like, I feel amazing about the price that I paid.
00:59:46And your members will feel the same.
00:59:48Step 10, your community landing page,
00:59:52which I should stress is not needed at launch.
00:59:54So when I launched Learn Community, this is kind of funny,
00:59:57but I didn't have a landing page, I think, for six months
01:00:00because I built a wait list and then I just sent people to a payment page
01:00:04and they paid and they went in the community.
01:00:07So I never had like a slick professional page.
01:00:09And I was so busy serving our early members.
01:00:11I didn't have time to build one.
01:00:13So after six months, I was like, this is getting ridiculous.
01:00:15I should probably build a page that explains what the community is.
01:00:19But it wasn't necessary.
01:00:20So I don't think people should get tripped up by that.
01:00:22Really, this is what your page should do.
01:00:24So a landing page is just a page with one purpose.
01:00:27In this case, it's to showcase your community and let people sign up for it.
01:00:30It should clarify who your community is for.
01:00:32And Chris said before, creative entrepreneurs is who the future is for.
01:00:37So let people identify with that.
01:00:39It should explain why it's actually valuable.
01:00:41It should show what happens inside the community.
01:00:44Of course, allow people to sign up with a CTA or call to action.
01:00:49Address any questions or common objections that people may have.
01:00:52And it should, of course, present you and your community
01:00:55as credible and trustworthy.
01:00:56And this is a typical kind of structure that I recommend, because, again,
01:00:59people get really bogged down and confused if they just see like a blank canvas.
01:01:03They're like, what do I put in this page?
01:01:04Number one is qualification.
01:01:06So put out the top like, you know, this is a community for these types of people.
01:01:09Then value, you know, you're hitting them with that value proposition.
01:01:14And this is where people read it and think, do I believe
01:01:17this is actually going to help me and be valuable?
01:01:19You can then get in the weeds a bit more and talk about the specific features
01:01:22and benefits and what's actually included.
01:01:25And then you have your CTA, which is basically your offer.
01:01:28Here's the price. Like, go sign up.
01:01:30You can address objections and questions with a simple FAQ thing
01:01:34somewhere near the bottom.
01:01:35And I recommend closing with another CTA, because if you don't end on a button
01:01:41where they can sign up, they're going to have to scroll back up on the page
01:01:43to actually do that. So end on a call to action.
01:01:47And then throughout the page, you should kind of weave in case studies.
01:01:50And I got these all over my page.
01:01:52If you go to learn dot community, my favorite domain name, by the way,
01:01:55you know, we got videos and text and, you know, images of our members
01:02:01raving about the community because they are the ones that really sell it for you.
01:02:04So if you don't have testimonials at launch
01:02:08and you're trying to build an early stage landing page,
01:02:11maybe you could leverage industry people or past clients
01:02:16or people that kind of speak to your expertise around your community topic.
01:02:20Step 11, ongoing marketing and growth.
01:02:24I'm curious what you think of this, Chris.
01:02:26But I came up with this equation on the right.
01:02:28I was like, what really, you know, leads to a community that scales?
01:02:33And for me, I think it's how valuable the community is.
01:02:36Then the market size, as well as your positioning and how well
01:02:40you fit that market and then how good you are actually marketing the community.
01:02:44So your focus around this, your effort and your skill
01:02:46and all of this kind of combined leads to how big the community can get.
01:02:50Interesting formula.
01:02:51I think in concept, a little bit harder to to actually do as a formula.
01:02:56But I think it's they're good general areas
01:02:59for you to focus on so that you you know, this is going to work.
01:03:02And the reason I broke it down like this, as I say on the left here,
01:03:05people typically focus on the first part, but that's very rarely the issue.
01:03:09So they're like, I need to make my community more valuable.
01:03:12I need to stuff more things in there.
01:03:15And actually, that isn't the weakest part is normally that they're doing
01:03:17hardly any marketing or maybe they didn't validate properly
01:03:21and they don't have kind of product market fit.
01:03:23I was chatting with the.
01:03:26The CEO of one of these learning management systems,
01:03:31and I asked him of the people who are very successful using your platform.
01:03:36What is the commonality of all of them?
01:03:39He paused and he said, you know, it's actually they focus on creating
01:03:43a product that people can have money to buy.
01:03:46They have an ability to buy.
01:03:48So he said that to me. I'm like, shoot.
01:03:50I think this is our problem.
01:03:54We teach people.
01:03:56Oftentimes creatives in a financial distress state. Yep.
01:04:01So we're we're trying to help the poor, basically, right? Yeah.
01:04:04And the poor don't have an ability to buy in.
01:04:07So it's one of our biggest challenges.
01:04:09Like we're trying to sell things to people
01:04:11who have an unhealthy relationship with money.
01:04:13They don't have enough of it.
01:04:15And when they make it, they want to hoard it.
01:04:17They don't believe in investing in themselves.
01:04:19That's a fairly typical creative person.
01:04:21So as he was sharing with me, one of the courses that did really well,
01:04:24they did like a million dollar launch in a week.
01:04:27He said it was a lady who used to trade on Wall Street
01:04:31and she was teaching like investment banking or something like that.
01:04:36So, of course, anybody who has money,
01:04:39who wants to learn investment banking can afford to pay for whatever course it is.
01:04:43Yeah. And there's another person who launched a course
01:04:46on how to get a job at Facebook or Google.
01:04:50So, of course, then you kind of know that people in Silicon Valley
01:04:53make ridiculous amounts of money.
01:04:54It's going to be a six figure salary with options and perks
01:04:57so they can invest a few grand into nailing the interview and getting that job.
01:05:02So it's one of these things.
01:05:03So if we're looking at the ability to grow a successful and thriving community,
01:05:08I look at maybe similar ideas.
01:05:10But number one, does the market feel this problem
01:05:13deeply as a pain that they would like to make go away?
01:05:15So if your community doesn't solve that.
01:05:19That you have a design problem.
01:05:21Number two, do you have an ability to buy so they feel the pain,
01:05:25but they cannot buy the solution?
01:05:27That's probably you got to go back to the drawing board.
01:05:30And number three, do you have the ability to deliver?
01:05:33So if you can bring people in who have a problem,
01:05:36who can afford to buy and you can deliver the solution,
01:05:39what will happen organically is they're going to tell more people.
01:05:42And so you're going to bring in more people with the same problem
01:05:45and you could solve this over and over again.
01:05:47Your community should grow.
01:05:48It's such an interesting point.
01:05:50I cover something similar in my course
01:05:53where I audit myself as a member over the years,
01:05:57because I've been an exceptional member in many communities where,
01:06:01you know, I've been given free membership because I contributed so much
01:06:04or promoted in the community
01:06:06or, you know, one of the biggest contributors and so on.
01:06:09I believe in being a good member.
01:06:11I've also been a member in several communities where I am like a ghost, right?
01:06:15I'm completely inactive.
01:06:17I cancel eventually and I bring no value.
01:06:20And I tracked my behavior over the years and what was going on in my life.
01:06:24And I had varying degrees of budget.
01:06:27I had varying degrees of time.
01:06:30Like I've been in some communities where I think this is an incredible community.
01:06:34I got zero time.
01:06:35I'm running my business.
01:06:36I'm enjoying my side hustle.
01:06:38I've got a family.
01:06:39I don't have time to behave like when I was 16 years old
01:06:43and I lived and breathed the community.
01:06:45And I think what it goes to show is,
01:06:48you know, yes, it's definitely who you're targeting and the market you're serving.
01:06:53But often kind of to your point, Chris, the issue lies
01:06:56with the member and their situation rather than your offering.
01:06:59So let's look at some key marketing channels.
01:07:02This is not an exhaustive list,
01:07:03but these are typically the ones that I pay attention to.
01:07:05You've got an audience.
01:07:07Maybe you've built an audience with a newsletter or a YouTube channel
01:07:11and Instagram, whatever it may be.
01:07:13Maybe you've got a network as well.
01:07:14This could be a network of connections on LinkedIn and in real life network.
01:07:18Maybe you've got a network of past clients that are paid to work with you.
01:07:21Distribution.
01:07:23This is getting in front of other people's audiences.
01:07:25So it could be, well, what I'm doing right now, I'm very meta, right, Chris?
01:07:29But I'm trying to bring your audience as much value as I can possibly muster.
01:07:33And I'm getting in front of them.
01:07:35And I've been on your show two times before.
01:07:37To this day, we get members that join our community.
01:07:41And there's a little field being like, where did you discover us?
01:07:43And they're like, I saw you on the future and like what you have to say.
01:07:45So I signed up like distribution is very powerful paid ads.
01:07:50My least favorite, if I'm being honest,
01:07:52particularly when it comes to community, because we're not selling digital products here.
01:07:56We're selling an experience where people need to be very invested.
01:08:00And I like to think it helps if they have a warm relationship with you.
01:08:03So I don't really like going in cold with something like ads and member referrals.
01:08:09This is often overlooked.
01:08:10People have members loving their community.
01:08:12They never incentivize or ask them to tell their friends.
01:08:14And I've done this with a few clients that I've worked with
01:08:17where we've ramped up that channel and it's exponentially helped them to grow.
01:08:21So that, again, can be very powerful.
01:08:23And my distribution hero, Chris, it's you.
01:08:26I think this is a screen grab from our last conversation.
01:08:32But truly, I've I've referenced you a lot when I've talked about this, because
01:08:36whenever we've had a conversation like this, typically you will say, oh, yeah,
01:08:42I got, you know, four more podcasts that I'm doing later on other people's shows.
01:08:47And I see your name popping up everywhere.
01:08:50And even people that don't have huge audiences,
01:08:52you're still like getting in front of that audience and bringing value relentlessly.
01:08:56Like, I don't know anyone else who does this so consistently day in, day out.
01:08:59And you have a huge audience.
01:09:02So it would be really easy for you to get apathetic and just kind of
01:09:05put stuff out to your own audience. And that's it.
01:09:07But you're constantly and intentionally getting in front of new audiences.
01:09:12And so when people aren't doing this, I'm like, hold on.
01:09:16You have zero audience and you're not bothering to do this.
01:09:18Chris has a huge audience and he's still prioritizing that.
01:09:22So, yeah, I look up to you with this truly.
01:09:24This is a real look at some of our earlier growth.
01:09:27I need to do a more up to date version of this graph.
01:09:30But again, I'm caveating.
01:09:31You know, this is a hobby for me, this community.
01:09:34This is like a passion project. So this is not my main business.
01:09:37So these are not enormous numbers, but you know,
01:09:39they're still pretty cool for a profitable hobby.
01:09:43So I just want to prove that marketing really matters,
01:09:47because when I initially launched, I was doing some marketing efforts.
01:09:51And you can see there's this kind of stepping stone thing going on
01:09:55because we get new members shut down for a month and not let people in.
01:09:58And then two months later, open up and let people in.
01:10:00And we were growing pretty nicely.
01:10:03Then you can see the line goes incredibly flat.
01:10:06We had to basically make the community open.
01:10:08People could sign up any time. No more launches, no more cohorts,
01:10:11no more marketing, because I was dealing with a newborn and it was a lot.
01:10:15I'm not going to lie.
01:10:16So I went into maintenance mode.
01:10:18I'm basically like the only energy I have remaining in my day
01:10:22after everything else in my life is to serve the members we have.
01:10:25I don't have time to get new members. So it's super flat.
01:10:28And then things started to pick up a little bit.
01:10:30And then not too long ago, we launched our course inside the community.
01:10:35And this brought a whole bunch of new people in.
01:10:37And now the community is kind of just starting to grow a little bit.
01:10:40I'm very happy with this kind of like taking along nice intentional growth.
01:10:45But as kind of almost embarrassing as it is to show
01:10:49some of the flatness of this graph, because this is not like,
01:10:52oh, I exploded to six figures in six months.
01:10:54I hope it's more realistic for people.
01:10:56And it also shows that marketing really works.
01:10:59It's like when I stop marketing, I stop growing.
01:11:01When I market more heavily, the growth follows
01:11:04and the proof's in the pudding, I think.
01:11:07Step 12, community onboarding.
01:11:09So this is how your your new members may be feeling after they join.
01:11:13Did I make the right decision signing up?
01:11:15Is this actually my kind of place?
01:11:16Are these my kind of people? Is this actually worth my time?
01:11:19Will this community be important to me?
01:11:22What do I do next?
01:11:24How do I use this community?
01:11:26It's very common to have these thoughts.
01:11:27Onboarding is designed to answer these questions.
01:11:30And I actually really love I connected with David Spinks,
01:11:34who's, you know, like an OG in the community world.
01:11:37We've had some really good conversations.
01:11:40And in his book, The Business of Belonging, he says onboarding
01:11:45is what we want new members to feel, to know and to do.
01:11:49And I think that's such a succinct, beautiful way of putting it.
01:11:52So feel that that's kind of back to the brand stuff we touched on.
01:11:56Like, how do you want them to actually feel when they sign up
01:11:59like warm and fuzzy or like super laser focused and motivated?
01:12:03Like, how do you want them to feel?
01:12:05No. What should they know?
01:12:06Like, they should know how to actually use things or maybe what to do next
01:12:10or what to expect from the community and do.
01:12:14What do you want them to do as their first step?
01:12:17Do you want them to introduce themselves
01:12:19or get help with their pressing problem or whatever it may be?
01:12:22But again, I love this framing.
01:12:24So shout out to David for this.
01:12:26There's a term in the world of community called activation.
01:12:29It's basically the sooner you can activate a community member
01:12:33to take some level of action, the better, because it's the people
01:12:36that never activate, that become passive and then inactive and then churn.
01:12:40And if you don't get people to activate generally quite early,
01:12:43certainly within their first week,
01:12:45there's a much higher likelihood you're going to lose them.
01:12:48So my rule is within 24 hours of them joining,
01:12:51how do I wow them as much as possible?
01:12:53Because often you join a community and that initial day experience
01:12:58is you deciding if it's going to be worth it or not.
01:13:00So how do you blow away new members with value in their first day?
01:13:05You could solve a problem that you saw in the application form.
01:13:08You could send them a really warm personal message, provide a resource
01:13:12that's perfect for their needs right now,
01:13:14or maybe make a valuable connection or introduction.
01:13:16So they're making friends on day one, but do something.
01:13:19Don't just dump them in there and hope that they kind of find their feet.
01:13:22Yeah, I have a suggestion for you. Can you go back to that slide?
01:13:24Yes. I've been watching your presentation here.
01:13:26Might I humbly suggest that you turn all these key ideas
01:13:31into bite sized rhyming,
01:13:34alliterative statements to kind of own and brand this whole thing.
01:13:38So you say first 24 hours. Wow.
01:13:40But I was trying to figure out like what rhymes with wow.
01:13:42I couldn't couldn't figure it out.
01:13:45But if you say just in quick win, then you could brand this whole thing.
01:13:49Does that make sense, Tom?
01:13:51I was thinking about this recently, and I'll be very honest.
01:13:53I haven't had time to get around to this.
01:13:55I'm such a believer in this because then you start owning concepts, right?
01:13:58So I know you chatted with Daniel Priestly.
01:14:01He talks about key person of influence. He talks about oversubscribed.
01:14:05These are not new concepts, but you get IP in the space
01:14:08by framing them in a compelling way.
01:14:11So, yeah, I completely agree.
01:14:12It's on my to do list, and I appreciate the suggestion.
01:14:15Yeah. If you go back in and look at all the key points about community
01:14:19and you come up with your 27 phrases, it's like Tom Ross's
01:14:2327 phrases of community like Robert Green's laws of power.
01:14:28Well, I do dream of writing a physical book on this one day.
01:14:31So there you go.
01:14:33I'm going to get my hip hop hat on and get some rhymes kicking off.
01:14:37And then and then you can make stickers.
01:14:38You can do merch and swag and all that kind of stuff.
01:14:41All right. We are getting we're getting near the end.
01:14:43Everyone who's with us still right now. I appreciate it.
01:14:46I get I get a bit carried away.
01:14:49Congratulations, everybody.
01:14:50You made it to step 13.
01:14:52You're go ahead and reward yourself by going
01:14:54hitting the like and subscribe button right now.
01:14:57Leave us a comment.
01:14:58Let us know what community you're planning on launching,
01:15:01given the information you're getting right now.
01:15:03OK, back to the show.
01:15:04I told you I want to make it like a free course, essentially.
01:15:07Step 13, gathering member data.
01:15:09It sounds kind of onerous, right?
01:15:10And and weird in like a Facebook way.
01:15:13And also, when people hear data, they get scared, right?
01:15:16It's like, OK, that sounds very complicated.
01:15:19Really, I think a better way of framing it is insights,
01:15:22because the more you know about your members, the better you're going
01:15:25to understand their needs and the better you're going to be able to serve them.
01:15:28It's impossible.
01:15:31In fact, I'm trying to think of a rhyme right now.
01:15:34Don't be a hater, gather member data.
01:15:36There you go. That sucks.
01:15:39Yeah, good try. Good try.
01:15:41So, you know, really, when it comes to member data, you should be an instigator.
01:15:46How's that round two?
01:15:48I'll go all night.
01:15:50So it is impossible to remember everything about your members
01:15:54and not having these insights means flying blind.
01:15:56So I didn't actually do this well enough when I launched Learn Community.
01:16:00And I'd be talking to a member and be like, wait,
01:16:03what does that community do again or like, what did they need help with?
01:16:06And I'd store it all in my brain and it was it was terrible.
01:16:09When you actually track this stuff and record it,
01:16:12it becomes really key for community management and handling member connections.
01:16:17It also informs you what marketing channels are working,
01:16:21because one of the data points I mentioned before is when someone joins,
01:16:24you should ask them, where did you discover this community?
01:16:26It's gold because now every time a member joins,
01:16:29I can see what marketing channels are working.
01:16:32And if I do some stuff and no members ever cite that, I'm like, cool.
01:16:35I won't do that again.
01:16:36It's a waste of time. I double down on the ones that are working.
01:16:38I haven't got time to kind of go through my whole process for this,
01:16:43but I've gone really deep on this, Chris.
01:16:45Like we now have a set of milestones that people fill out.
01:16:48So someone asks a question like, how do I do community challenges?
01:16:52I can filter by our members and be like, here's eight members
01:16:55that crushed community challenges and they can share what works.
01:16:58Step 14, drive member engagement.
01:17:00Everyone realizes when they do community engagement, it's freaking hard.
01:17:05And it really is even the best communities wish for more.
01:17:08It's very, very difficult.
01:17:10These are the three areas that I think impact engagement the most.
01:17:13You have the value and offering of your community.
01:17:15If that's really great, that's going to help.
01:17:18We talked before, Chris, about you might have a great offering,
01:17:21but if you got the wrong people in there, then engagement is going to be poor.
01:17:24So the number of members, obviously a degree of like critical mass supplies
01:17:28and also the quality and relevance of those members matters too.
01:17:32And then the big one is community experience.
01:17:34So what are you actually doing with those members once they're inside?
01:17:37And again, I've got a hugely in-depth module in my course about engagement,
01:17:40but I want to give you a couple of my favorite strategies
01:17:43that you can take away today.
01:17:44So what most community builders do is they sit back and hope members engage
01:17:48and they typically won't or they start endlessly posting to fill the silence.
01:17:54And this has the opposite effect because you're basically hogging the mic
01:17:57and giving no space for your members to converse.
01:17:59And this is so common.
01:18:01People get really insecure. They're like, it's a ghost town.
01:18:03I better start like posting threads or answering my own questions
01:18:06and fill that void.
01:18:08That is not the right way to go about it.
01:18:10So what actually does work is being a facilitator.
01:18:14We've touched on this throughout this chat.
01:18:16You need to be the driver and the organizer of those early conversations.
01:18:20My favorite technique is private to public.
01:18:22And what this means is, Chris, imagine you're a member in my community
01:18:26and you're not posting, which is very common behavior, right?
01:18:29It's not priority. You haven't got around to it.
01:18:31You don't know how to frame your question.
01:18:33You feel insecure or whatever it may be.
01:18:35I reach out to you privately and I say, hey, Chris, how's it going?
01:18:38And you may reply and you're like, I'm good.
01:18:41Like, you know, business is tough at the minute and I'll have a conversation.
01:18:44I'm like, oh, why is it tough? What's going on?
01:18:46And maybe you open up and you're like,
01:18:48we're struggling to grow right now because, you know,
01:18:51I feel a bit lost when it comes to marketing.
01:18:54And in that conversation, I pin down the specific issue you're having.
01:18:58And I say, you know what? I can help with that.
01:19:01But if you go post it publicly in the forum,
01:19:04I think our conversation and the help I give you will help other members
01:19:07and other members will chime in and give their perspectives
01:19:11and their help you too. Does that sound good?
01:19:13And 99% of the time they're like, yeah, that sounds amazing.
01:19:17So what I've done is I've gone to them instead of waiting for them to come to me.
01:19:22I've helped get them to clarity.
01:19:24And then I've pointed them to go do it publicly in the community.
01:19:27And the best part is all the other members seeing this wonderful discussion unfolding.
01:19:32It appears organic to them.
01:19:34They don't know I've been the puppet master behind the scenes making this happen.
01:19:37It just looks like great engagement happening naturally.
01:19:39That's a lot of work, Tom.
01:19:41Yeah, it is. I can see why you're good at this.
01:19:43And thing is, because this is a hobby.
01:19:47I do all of this stuff in 30 to 60 minutes a day.
01:19:51This is how community is scalable when you do it right.
01:19:54Because the whole ecosystem of a community
01:19:57is that people are not going to be hounding you every single day, day in, day out.
01:20:00Majority are going to be passive, which is fine.
01:20:03They might just enjoy consuming resources or watching other conversations.
01:20:06And the active people, they're going to get some help and go and do the work.
01:20:10They're not going to hound you again an hour later, typically.
01:20:13So for me, I can I can drop in respond to every single question.
01:20:18Lead personal Loom responses, give someone a dedicated five minute video answer.
01:20:22Do that several times a day.
01:20:24Make a few connections, have some DMs and drive
01:20:28facilitating the whole ecosystem in less than one hour.
01:20:31And it's super fulfilling.
01:20:33You can also make one on one member introductions.
01:20:35You can personally invite people to events.
01:20:38And one of my favorite things is you can tag members.
01:20:40So here's the exact workflow, right?
01:20:43A member posts.
01:20:44I'll give my best response.
01:20:46And then after that, I will use the data
01:20:48I talked about to find other members who might be able to help.
01:20:50So in this example, Laura posted asking about challenges.
01:20:54And I was like, hmm, I know Joy's done challenges.
01:20:57I'll tag her up.
01:20:59Joy then jumps in because of that prompt, which she wouldn't have done without it.
01:21:03Leaves an incredible video breaking down her exact approach.
01:21:06And suddenly members are helping members.
01:21:08And I just had to facilitate that with a little light nudge.
01:21:11So we're nearly there, Chris.
01:21:13That is that's basically my framework for how people can think about
01:21:16building community.
01:21:18And I want to end by talking about objections,
01:21:20because invariably people might have some.
01:21:22Number one, I don't have an audience, so I can't build community.
01:21:25With learn community, even though I started with an audience,
01:21:2880 percent of our members come from places other than my own audience
01:21:33talks like what I'm doing right now, for example.
01:21:36So if you don't have an audience, lean on your network and lean into distribution.
01:21:40There are other channels than audience are delay launching my community
01:21:43until I release a ton of content and build an audience.
01:21:46Again, you don't need one.
01:21:48An audience building, as you know, Chris, takes a long time.
01:21:50It's definitely a smart strategy.
01:21:52But a lack of audience shouldn't stop you launching your community.
01:21:54Just lean on the other areas that we touched on.
01:21:57I don't like marketing. Can't I just avoid it?
01:22:00Unfortunately, no, it is not build it and they will come.
01:22:02People are not going to magically just know about your community.
01:22:05So you know what sucks more than learning marketing failing,
01:22:09not being able to follow your dream or seeing zero traction.
01:22:12I've seen a lot of people that claim to hate marketing.
01:22:15And once it started working for them because they stuck at it,
01:22:18they didn't hate it so much.
01:22:19I think it can be intimidating to learn a new skill.
01:22:22But I hate seeing people with great ideas for communities
01:22:25just never bring them to life because of this blocker.
01:22:27It only worked for you, Tom, because you're already established.
01:22:30Again, my existing audience and network helped. I won't lie.
01:22:33But I managed my expectations to be much smaller than some established names.
01:22:38So, Chris, my community as a side hustle
01:22:41with my level of audience earns way less than your community.
01:22:46And I'm just fine with that because that makes sense.
01:22:48So I advise people make your goals realistic.
01:22:53My community is bigger than some peoples and smaller than other peoples.
01:22:56If you're just getting started, you know, I've helped members launch a community
01:23:00with eight members and they get a bit of extra money in their pocket.
01:23:03And most of all, they serve those people and care about them and help them.
01:23:07And that's a wonderful thing.
01:23:09So start at whatever point, you know, it's relative to where you're at.
01:23:13I appeared on a podcast and it didn't work.
01:23:15I've definitely felt this before.
01:23:17So it's unrealistic to think everything will work.
01:23:20I listened to Noah Kagan's new book the other day,
01:23:24and I think he said like 80 to 90 percent of his marketing experiments fail.
01:23:27That is just marketing.
01:23:29It's trial and error and it's a lot of failure.
01:23:31And I definitely found this.
01:23:33I've tried tons that didn't work.
01:23:35And I basically found the ones that do and got data.
01:23:39Remember on which ones work and I do more of them.
01:23:41I'm marketing my community, but not seeing great results.
01:23:44Either your community isn't properly validated or positioned
01:23:46or you're marketing, but not enough or not well enough.
01:23:48Typically, it's the latter.
01:23:50People are very kind of sporadic with their marketing.
01:23:53And when I've interviewed members who really crushed it with their launches,
01:23:56people are very surprised at the level of effort and commitment
01:23:59they put into their marketing campaigns.
01:24:01So generally, you need to be doing more marketing than than what feels natural.
01:24:05Nobody seems to care about my community.
01:24:07Again, this is why we validate.
01:24:09So this should actually become evident at the validation phase,
01:24:12not at the launch or marketing phase.
01:24:14Until you have something that you're sure people actually really want.
01:24:16Don't jump into building and marketing it.
01:24:18And that is it.
01:24:19I'm going to take a breath and just say, if you do need help with next steps
01:24:24at Learn Community, you can find the entire course that these highlights
01:24:29are taken from.
01:24:30Plus, join our community of 150 like minded community builders.
01:24:34You also get unlimited help and questions from me.
01:24:36One on one calls for community critiques, you name it.
01:24:39I really like to try and over deliver for people.
01:24:41And I would love to be your personal guide when it comes to community.
01:24:44If you don't have any budget, then I actually featured Chris
01:24:48in my 175 page free book at communitymanual.com,
01:24:52which breaks down tons more community strategies,
01:24:55as well as an analysis of how the future and Chris build community so well.
01:24:59And finally, thank you.
01:25:01Thank you, Chris, for having me on.
01:25:02Thank you, everyone, for your time and attention.
01:25:04I didn't realize this would be such a long
01:25:07workshop, but I hope it's been helpful.
01:25:09And I really, really want you to feel inspired to go create your dream community.
01:25:13We'll include the links that Tom mentioned in the show notes below.
01:25:16Make sure you click on those
01:25:17if you want the additional resources that he's talking about.
01:25:19Or if you're curious about his community and want to look at his sales page,
01:25:22make sure you check it out.
01:25:32you

Key Takeaway

Building a successful online community requires strategic facilitation, demand validation, thoughtful pricing, aggressive marketing, and continuous member engagement rather than simply creating a platform and expecting members to self-organize.

Highlights

Community building requires skilled facilitation, not self-promotion; focus on creating structures for member-to-member connections rather than positioning yourself as the central figure

Validate demand before building by creating a waitlist with applications to ensure market demand exists before investing significant time and resources

Pricing strategy must balance member value with your own financial needs; avoid lifetime memberships and underpricing, as they create unsustainable resentment over time

Onboarding new members within their first 24 hours is critical for activation and retention; wow them immediately through personalized help, connections, or resources

Marketing is non-negotiable; communities with no audience can still succeed by leveraging networks, distribution channels, and member referrals, but must continuously execute marketing efforts

Member engagement comes from facilitating connections, not from posting constantly; use private-to-public technique to encourage member participation and reduce ghosting

Community culture must be intentionally designed with clear values and behavioral expectations; define both desired traits and undesirable behaviors to attract and retain the right members

Timeline

Introduction and Why Communities Matter

Tom Ross introduces the topic of membership communities and explains why they have become increasingly important for entrepreneurs and creators. He highlights key benefits including the ability to serve people at scale, create recurring subscription revenue, work in any niche regardless of size, and enable members to help each other. He emphasizes that communities are bigger than just the founder, allowing peer-to-peer value creation. However, Ross also cavieats important challenges: communities require significant hands-on management, take considerable initial effort to launch, involve complex human dynamics that can't be controlled, and members often won't behave as expected despite best intentions.

Step 1: Choosing Your Community Topic

The first foundational step for building a community is selecting the right topic by aligning three key criteria: something you're passionate about, something you have genuine experience and credibility in, and something where the market opportunity exists. Ross explains the concept of developing a clear value proposition using the format: 'Your community name helps [type of person] achieve [specific outcome].' He introduces the 'podcast test'—if you can't deliver your value proposition concisely and consistently in one sentence, it needs refinement. Examples provided include Learn Community ('helps you launch and grow a successful online community') and The Future Pro Group ('helps creative entrepreneurs scale their business').

Step 2: Types of Community Value Offerings

Communities can offer four distinct types of value: help (spaces for members to ask questions and receive support), action (sprints, boot camps, challenges that push members to take concrete steps), learning (workshops, knowledge bases, courses, live sessions), and connection (facilitating relationships and networking among members). Ross emphasizes that connection is often overlooked but crucial because it strengthens the entire ecosystem—members help each other more readily when they have existing relationships. He highlights the importance of being a facilitator rather than the constant center of attention, getting out of the way to enable member-to-member interactions. Chris shares the use of 'Air Meets' with speed networking and themed tables, demonstrating how to structure connection events that continue generating value after the founder exits.

Step 3: Financial Planning and Pricing Strategy

Successful community pricing requires strategic thinking about two core questions: how much do you need to earn personally, and how much can you realistically earn given your audience, experience, and credibility? Ross presents six key pricing considerations: full-time vs. side hustle requirements, percentage of total income the community should represent, living expense calculations, typical market rates in your space, realistic ROI for members, and pricing that excites you when members sign up. He introduces the 'value seesaw' concept—pricing must be balanced so both members and the founder receive sufficient value, otherwise resentment builds and sustainability fails. Critically, Ross warns against lifetime memberships because they create increasing imbalance over time and become increasingly exploitative as the founder's life evolves.

Pricing Models and Financial Metrics

Ross advocates using the Van Westendorp pricing model, a scientific approach using four psychological pricing questions to determine market sweet spots without biased feedback from potential customers. He emphasizes using MRR (Monthly Recurring Revenue) calculators to project revenue scenarios and identify growth ceilings based on member acquisition and pricing. Critically, he highlights that churn rate (member cancellation) impacts growth more than acquisition—reducing churn from 10% to 5% per month enables exponential growth with the same acquisition rate. Ross reveals his own experience: he initially underpriced Learn Community's founding members at $10/month, which he now regrets, and has since raised prices quarterly while grandfather-ing early members. He shares that shifting from monthly to quarterly/annual subscription options dramatically improved member quality and reduced churn because higher commitment filters for serious participants.

Step 4: Platform Selection and Step 5: Demand Validation

Platform selection requires research and development; create a requirements spreadsheet identifying must-haves versus nice-to-haves, then objectively compare platforms against those criteria rather than making gut-feel decisions. Ross uses Circle as his platform but emphasizes no platform is perfect—the goal is finding one that's right for your specific needs. The critical validation step involves creating a waitlist and applications before building, asking critical questions and gauging genuine interest through commitment signals. Ross shares his own launch story: with 40K Instagram followers and 5K newsletter subscribers, he set a goal of attracting 100 founding members before building. He received nearly 400 applications but recognizes this was partly due to his extremely low initial pricing ($10/month). By validating demand, he proved the concept worked and created urgency to build the platform in just three days.

Step 6: Building Community Structure and Avoiding Common Mistakes

Community structure must avoid three critical mistakes: overloading with too many spaces or sections that overwhelm members, poor navigation that makes the community difficult to use, and excessive content that drowns out community connection spaces. Ross emphasizes that communities should prioritize connection over consumption—if 99% of navigation is content-related, it becomes a membership site rather than a community. He and Chris discuss their experience discovering that with 100 members across 10 spaces, engagement becomes diluted and some spaces remain empty. The solution is thoughtful curation: less is more, and ruthlessly eliminating underutilized spaces improves overall experience. Additionally, communities should have strong branding with three to five words defining desired culture, and community leaders should audit all touchpoints against brand values to ensure consistency in member experience.

Step 7: Designing Community Culture

Community culture is the shared values and expected behaviors that bind members together, and it should be intentionally designed and consistently maintained. Successful culture must be clear and understandable, attract the right members while repelling the wrong ones, be upheld by members even when the founder is absent, and remain consistent across the community. Ross uses the Cobra Kai/Miyagi-Do analogy from the TV show to illustrate how two communities pursuing identical goals can have vastly different cultures. For Learn Community, he intentionally cultivated five traits: welcoming/inclusive, supportive/kind, practical/actionable, deep problem-solving, personal/open, honest/vulnerable, and egalitarian (no hierarchy). He also maps antithetical traits he doesn't want: pushy, spammy, judgmental, mean, selfish, pressuring participation, taking without giving, poor ethics, or overly serious. Founders should lead by example, recognize and celebrate members who embody desired behaviors, and have explicit codes of conduct to guide expectations.

Step 8: Planning Community Events

Communities can sustain engagement through diverse event types including AMAs (ask me anything) with themed questions, one-on-one coaching slots, workshops led by founder or members, social/connection events with ice breakers and breakout rooms, member showcases highlighting success stories, interviews, role play, town halls addressing topical concerns, feedback meetings gathering member input, and in-person retreats. Ross emphasizes that member-led content often performs better than founder-led content because it adds variety, fresh perspectives, and prevents burnout from constant founder participation. He warns against stuffing the calendar with too many events, as each requires significant preparation, replay management, and emotional energy. The strategy should be starting minimal and scaling up gradually rather than overwhelming members and burning out the founder. Ross demonstrates how to facilitate engagement even in a side hustle by spending just 30-60 minutes daily providing personalized responses, making member introductions, and strategically tagging relevant members to help each other.

Step 9: Launch Strategy Using Urgency and Scarcity

Launch strategy should leverage urgency and scarcity to drive conversions; Ross prefers member caps over discounts because scarcity creates stronger perceived value. Rather than offering 50% off, it's more powerful to say 'We're only taking 20 members for this cohort.' He also recommends announcing future price increases so founding members feel they got a steal, reducing future cancellation risk—this became powerfully evident when his studio investment increased 300% in 18 months, making his early purchase feel like a bargain. Chris emphasizes that abundant accessible value (like all-you-can-eat resources) paradoxically reduces perceived worth, whereas scarcity and intimacy create perceived premium value justifying higher prices. The launch phase should feel urgent enough that people act quickly, transforming waitlist momentum into actual paid memberships without requiring artificial discounts that signal weakness or low confidence in value proposition.

Step 10: Landing Page and Steps 11-12: Marketing and Onboarding

A landing page is not required at launch but should eventually clarify who the community is for, explain its value, show what's inside, include social proof through testimonials or case studies, address common objections, and end with a clear call-to-action button. Ross built Learn Community without a landing page for six months, simply directing people to a payment page because early momentum and member service took priority. Ongoing marketing is critical because communities don't grow without it; Ross presents a formula highlighting that community success equals (value × market size × positioning) × marketing effort and skill. Key marketing channels include existing audience, personal network, distribution partnerships (like podcast appearances), paid ads, and member referrals. Onboarding is crucial for activation within 24 hours; new members should feel welcomed, know how to use the community, understand what to do next, and experience immediate value through problem-solving, personal messages, helpful resources, or valuable connections.

Step 13: Member Data and Step 14: Driving Engagement

Gathering member data (better framed as 'insights') prevents flying blind; tracking what problems members face, where they discovered the community, what they've achieved, and their needs allows personalized service and marketing optimization. Ross uses a tagging system to identify members with specific expertise so he can facilitate peer-to-peer help. Driving engagement requires three elements: strong community value, right members at critical mass, and excellent community experience. Ross emphasizes that most builders make the mistake of passively waiting for engagement or constantly posting to fill silence, which actually suppresses member participation by hogging the microphone. The 'private-to-public' technique solves this: reach out to quiet members privately, help them clarify their challenge, then invite them to post publicly where the whole community benefits. This requires 30-60 minutes of daily work but scales efficiently because members help each other afterward. Example: Ross responds to a question, then tags relevant expert members to contribute their perspectives, making the member feel supported and creating organic engagement.

Objections, Realistic Expectations, and Conclusion

Ross addresses five common objections: lacking an audience shouldn't prevent community launch (80% of Learn Community members come from outside his direct audience through distribution); building content/audience first before launching delays and isn't necessary; marketing is unavoidable despite discomfort—it's required for visibility and 80-90% of marketing experiments fail but data guides which efforts work; unrealistic expectations about effort (successful launches require significant committed marketing effort, not sporadic attempts); and properly validating demand early prevents wasting effort on unwanted communities. He emphasizes starting small and scaling gradually—an 8-member community with quality interactions is worthwhile, and growth is relative to each founder's starting position. Throughout the presentation, Ross demonstrates deep expertise from 20 years in community-building, having grown Design Cuts to 1 million members, and distilled this into a comprehensive 9-hour course with 12 modules and 45 lessons. The overarching message encourages listeners to launch their dream communities despite imperfect starting conditions, using validation, strategic pricing, consistent marketing, and genuine facilitation to build thriving member ecosystems.

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