스크립트
00:00:00- This week on Scale or Fail.
00:00:02- I help people make stickers.
00:00:04- Stickers, doing stickers, it's so unique.
00:00:06- It's a funny niche that I didn't know existed.
00:00:09- The question is, do I want to spend a year
00:00:11working with you to scale this?
00:00:14- You already have a model that works well.
00:00:15The last thing I wanna do is break everything.
00:00:16I think that'll do well.
00:00:17- Or do I think there's something that's gonna get in the way
00:00:19that's gonna prevent us from scaling?
00:00:20- We won't be talking hundreds.
00:00:22- We have to.
00:00:22- I'm not for a challenge, but that feels...
00:00:24- That's my challenge.
00:00:25- I didn't feel like I had the runway
00:00:26to be able to do that.
00:00:27- She's killing it already.
00:00:28She's already a bigger business than I am.
00:00:30- That's good for her.
00:00:31- That's the biggest in terms of competition.
00:00:33- This is Scale or Fail.
00:00:34- This is a competition at the end of the day.
00:00:37- So the verdict is...
00:00:39These eight business owners are competing for $100,000
00:00:42in this golden ticket, which gives them access
00:00:44to an entire year of guidance for myself and the team
00:00:47behind my $250 million per year portfolio.
00:00:50They each have 60 minutes with me to explain their business,
00:00:52and by the end, I'll decide if they scale or fail.
00:00:55For those who are chosen to scale,
00:00:57I'll give them a personalized 90-day blueprint
00:00:59on how to grow their business.
00:01:00And 90 days later, whoever grows the most wins
00:01:03and walks away with a grand prize.
00:01:05My name is Alex Ramosi, and this is Scale or Fail.
00:01:20- I'm Mim Jenkinson, and I teach crafters how to make stickers.
00:01:25- I like Mim a lot.
00:01:26She's super cool.
00:01:27Because of her situation, she has that perspective on life.
00:01:29- I got started 10 years ago.
00:01:31I'd been diagnosed with breast cancer.
00:01:34And while going through chemotherapy and radiation, I still
00:01:38needed something to take my mind off everything I was going through.
00:01:41So a creative project that came to mind was teaching myself to make stickers.
00:01:46And so during chemo, that's what I did.
00:01:51Now, little did I know that 10 years on from that, I've now turned this into a business
00:01:56where I've taught over 20,000 crafters from all over the world to make stickers.
00:02:01Hi!
00:02:02- Mim, what's up?
00:02:03You ready?
00:02:03So tell me about the business.
00:02:04- I help people make stickers.
00:02:06For the last 12 months, I made 1.1 million Australian, which roughly works out to be about 800k.
00:02:13So I've made multiple seven figures over the past 10 years altogether.
00:02:16But I hit my first seven figure year, which is very exciting.
00:02:20So profit is around the 30 to 35% mark.
00:02:23And my goal for the next three years is to reach 3 million USD per year.
00:02:29- How do you make money?
00:02:31- I make money with low ticket digital products.
00:02:34So all of my teaching is online.
00:02:36And my main membership is Secret Sticker Society.
00:02:39Currently, the rates are 27 US dollars per month or 270 per year.
00:02:44And then loads of other low ticket digital products that can be interchanged for upsells.
00:02:49I have really good upsell game.
00:02:51So that's great.
00:02:53- Okay.
00:02:53This is a lot of stuff though.
00:02:55So how many funnels is this?
00:02:58- Over the last 10 years, I would be embarrassed to tell you how many funnels.
00:03:02- How many funnels are running right now?
00:03:03- So right now with the main membership with Secret Sticker Society,
00:03:06the main funnel is a live paid bootcamp that I launched three times per year.
00:03:12- But the main thing is, it's Secret Sticker Society.
00:03:14You've got a bunch of upsells in the funnel to offset CAC to the greatest degree possible.
00:03:18- Yeah.
00:03:18- You go to the launch and then you sell Secret Sticker Society in the back.
00:03:21- That's right.
00:03:22- Okay, got it.
00:03:22- Yeah.
00:03:23- What are the numbers you got for acquisition?
00:03:25Okay.
00:03:26The live paid launch is $10.
00:03:28Is it the ticket's 10 bucks?
00:03:29- That's right.
00:03:29- So there's no free?
00:03:30- No free.
00:03:31- So it's paid, okay.
00:03:32- Yeah.
00:03:32- Paid challenges, cost you $37 to get it.
00:03:35- Yes.
00:03:36- You have a 22% conversion rate on?
00:03:38- Into the membership.
00:03:39- Of people who buy a ticket?
00:03:41- That's right.
00:03:42- That's huge.
00:03:42- Yeah, I'm really happy with that.
00:03:44- What's AOV?
00:03:45- It would be about $36.
00:03:49- Oh, so you're almost breaking even.
00:03:51- Some of the events, I am slightly in the red,
00:03:54but by the end of the event, I'm always profitable.
00:03:56And then two of the bootcamps that I've ran, I've been profitable from day one.
00:04:00So I've been up.
00:04:00They're my favorite ones.
00:04:02- Okay.
00:04:06All right.
00:04:06What do you think is stopping you right now?
00:04:07- I feel that if I could get more people into the challenge, I feel so strong now that
00:04:13I have that strong conversion of bringing people in.
00:04:15I know what to do.
00:04:16It's really quite tried and tested.
00:04:18If I could get a higher volume of people into the bootcamp, I'm safe to convert them.
00:04:23And so that has been something that has definitely held me back.
00:04:27And then as you know, I know that I have not reached the cap in any way of being able to lower
00:04:32that CPA.
00:04:33So I think that even just making the switch with the past launch of pushing the annual membership
00:04:41doubled the average order value.
00:04:44So that made a huge difference, way bigger than I thought it would.
00:04:48And an instant difference.
00:04:49- You doubted me.
00:04:49- Step one, add the annual, make that the only offer available.
00:04:53I want to be clear.
00:04:53The only offer available is the annual with the bonuses.
00:04:56- Okay.
00:04:56So annual only at the next launch.
00:04:58- Yes.
00:04:59- Someone wise told me to do that and I did it and it works.
00:05:02Okay.
00:05:02Yeah.
00:05:03- Yeah.
00:05:03We'll probably do some more stuff there too.
00:05:05- Yeah.
00:05:05- Um, okay.
00:05:06So why is scaling this important to you?
00:05:09Why not just make money and just chill where you're at?
00:05:11- Well, I really want to be able to pay off my home loan.
00:05:16I'm married.
00:05:16I've got two kids, um, 10 years ago when I set the business up,
00:05:19I was diagnosed with breast cancer and thankfully 10 years on,
00:05:23all is really well now, which is great.
00:05:26But at the time, which was obviously a very dark period of my life,
00:05:29I set the business up really as a creative project to do something
00:05:32just for me to take my mind off it.
00:05:34And little did I know that 10 years on,
00:05:36I'd be teaching 20,000 plus crafters to make stickers.
00:05:39I'm ex-corporate.
00:05:40So completely different to what I'd done before.
00:05:43But what this has left me with is a really strong desire to be able to
00:05:47set my family up financially.
00:05:49I really want to set up my family in a way that if I'm no longer around,
00:05:54they are looked after.
00:05:56I know I can absolutely still help my mum and help my family.
00:06:00And having lost so many friends to cancer and so many who were mums as well.
00:06:07It just has become more and more important to me to appreciate how
00:06:12my income and how money can really change our lives.
00:06:17And I want to know that I've done as much as possible and I've been able to support my family.
00:06:23Even without me, I am here to be open and to learn.
00:06:28And I will implement on everything that I'm told to do.
00:06:32I'm a really good student verging on being a bit of a teacher's pet.
00:06:35Like I will just do anything that you know more than me on this.
00:06:41And I constantly tell myself that I only know what I know.
00:06:43You know more about stickers than I do, that's for sure.
00:06:45Well, not too long.
00:06:47Because...
00:06:48Can you pull the numbers slide back up real quick?
00:06:51So you're making about over 500 ish in profit, right?
00:06:54So you're very profitable, correct?
00:06:56Yeah.
00:06:57Why don't you spend up to $100, CPA?
00:07:00See, this is part of the reason I'm here.
00:07:03Because I often finish a launch thinking...
00:07:05I should have spent more.
00:07:06Why didn't I spend more?
00:07:07And then I'll go into the next launch again with that same...
00:07:10I'll cap my ad spend at a certain amount for no good reason.
00:07:14So what do you cap your CPA at normally?
00:07:16I don't even...
00:07:17Well, I have capped the CPA, but the CPA has gone as high as maybe 50.
00:07:23I'm not a cautious spender, but for some reason, that's what I've done.
00:07:26You are here.
00:07:26Yeah.
00:07:27Cool, let's rock.
00:07:28Let's do this.
00:07:28I've known of her.
00:07:30I knew that she had an amazing seven-figure business.
00:07:34Stickers, doing stickers.
00:07:36It's so unique.
00:07:37And so to me, that was the biggest in terms of competition.
00:07:45Just so I'm clear on the delivery side,
00:07:47if you double the amount of customers you have, does it break anything?
00:07:50No.
00:07:51Okay.
00:07:51So this is a pure demand issue, which is nice.
00:07:54I think I'm going to go...
00:07:55I'm going to try to break this into an offer, and then we'll go traffic.
00:08:01Because I don't think there's really much else for your specific business that we need to talk about.
00:08:04Yep.
00:08:05Okay.
00:08:07So number one, I guess on the traffic side of the spend, is how much did you spend last launch?
00:08:13I only spent about 16k.
00:08:15The event went really well.
00:08:17It was not my biggest event, but it was so profitable.
00:08:19So yeah, happy.
00:08:20I just didn't have enough time to be able to spend more.
00:08:22You just needed a little ramp.
00:08:24Yeah.
00:08:24So when you said you didn't have enough time to spend more, what do you mean by that?
00:08:30Because I spent $500,000 a day at the end of my launch.
00:08:32You said $500,000 a day?
00:08:34Yeah.
00:08:36For ads?
00:08:38Yeah.
00:08:38But what made you...
00:08:40This is where my own limitation with meta ads probably comes into play.
00:08:46So the way that I like to normally do my launches, which I know is much earlier than many others,
00:08:51I launched four weeks out.
00:08:52So four weeks out...
00:08:53How much four weeks out?
00:08:53Oh, cool.
00:08:54With a smaller spend, you know, the testing, seeing what works.
00:08:57And I didn't feel like I had the one way to be able to do that.
00:09:01I guess it was a bit of mindset stuff too, of being way more conservative than I normally would.
00:09:06But I remember feeling I wasn't happy enough with CPA to keep spending.
00:09:11Okay.
00:09:12So I'm going to walk through spend cadence.
00:09:16Yeah.
00:09:16Okay.
00:09:17And so the way that I do this, I put about 5%, maybe 10% max of my spend goes in that first week.
00:09:27And the only purpose is to test grade.
00:09:29Right.
00:09:29Yeah.
00:09:30Then once we have our creative, the next two weeks are pretty much flat.
00:09:34Now we scale it up, obviously, but then we try and spend as much as possible.
00:09:38Like, I mean, if we could spend 75%, I would.
00:09:41It's just, it's just challenging.
00:09:42Yeah, yeah.
00:09:43Right?
00:09:43Like call it 60 to 70% is in this week.
00:09:47Totally.
00:09:47And then we're, we're in this, call it, you know, 15%, you know, maybe 10% here and then 15% here.
00:09:52And so even here, this is where you're probably going to be at 50% is like literally in the last three days.
00:09:57Yeah, that's all.
00:09:57Right.
00:09:58Now that's the cadence of spending.
00:10:00Now from an amount of spending perspective, we do have a decision, which is like,
00:10:04let's obviously be willing to spend more.
00:10:06All right.
00:10:06But in order to do that, I think there's two things we have to do beforehand.
00:10:09One is we have to fix offer.
00:10:11But I also want to approach this from a creative perspective.
00:10:15So how many pieces of creative are you making right now for a launch?
00:10:18This is my weak spot for sure, creatives.
00:10:21Last launch, I think I started with a hook test in that first week with two images and two videos.
00:10:28This time, there'll be a few more.
00:10:30I want you to think in hundreds.
00:10:32I want you to think in hundreds.
00:10:32We won't be talking hundreds.
00:10:34We have to.
00:10:35How many stickers do people make?
00:10:36Oh, thousands.
00:10:37Right.
00:10:37So let's just think in stickers, right?
00:10:39Previously, but previously is not going anywhere near hundreds.
00:10:41Okay.
00:10:42So, so let's just, just to make this easier for you.
00:10:45Okay.
00:10:45Are you familiar with AI stuff or are you like more averse than that?
00:10:48Okay.
00:10:48So there's no reason why you shouldn't have a ton of static ads because these take two seconds to make.
00:10:54So from a statics perspective, I would look at a couple different sources because I want,
00:11:00for sure we can make some and we're gonna make a bunch of them with AI and all that kind of stuff.
00:11:02Yeah.
00:11:03But I think if you can take from your group, how many screenshots can I take from the group?
00:11:08Oh, so many.
00:11:08Right?
00:11:09Yeah.
00:11:09These are all ads, right?
00:11:11And then you add your little highlights to them, to your, to the people in your group.
00:11:16Mm-hmm.
00:11:16Do you have people who post videos inside the group of them like making it first?
00:11:19Okay.
00:11:19No.
00:11:20So no one does?
00:11:21No video UDC.
00:11:23Interesting.
00:11:24Yeah.
00:11:24You want to incentivize people to?
00:11:26I've tried before and I don't know whether it's the demographic or perhaps I didn't set them up for success.
00:11:32Okay.
00:11:32So probably both.
00:11:34Okay.
00:11:34Well, they know how to use a phone.
00:11:36For sure.
00:11:36Yeah, yeah.
00:11:36Right.
00:11:37So I would, I would have a super secret sticker set, SSSS set, right?
00:11:44Which they can unlock if they show themselves making a sticker.
00:11:48Right.
00:11:49Okay.
00:11:49That's it.
00:11:50Yeah, I love it.
00:11:51That's it.
00:11:52And then I would use that as my activation for everyone.
00:11:54Yeah.
00:11:54Which is that everyone in your first seven days, I need you to make a sticker.
00:11:58I really like that because that's great for onboarding too.
00:12:00Yeah, exactly.
00:12:00Awesome.
00:12:01Quick win.
00:12:02So it's a quick win, but then every single customer makes you an ad.
00:12:06Then around and around we go.
00:12:07And so if you have 200 customers for every launch on the low side, there's 200 ads.
00:12:10I wish I fell off that.
00:12:11Well, there you go.
00:12:12We're here.
00:12:12And then do people post images of the stickers they make?
00:12:15Oh, yeah.
00:12:15Okay.
00:12:16There's no stopping them.
00:12:17Right.
00:12:17So then sticker images, I think you'll be surprised that some of these will,
00:12:20will actually turn into like, what kind of sticker?
00:12:22Like that's the weirdest sticker I've ever seen.
00:12:23It's like brick.
00:12:24And then, so I think sticker ads will lend themselves really well.
00:12:27So we have our static ads, we have our videos.
00:12:30This will get more people to do it.
00:12:31We can put that in the activation sequence in the first seven days.
00:12:34Great.
00:12:35Love that.
00:12:36What touch points do you have with your customers?
00:12:38The only live delivery that I do where I am connecting is during these boot camps,
00:12:43because the classes are pre-recorded, but I go live every day.
00:12:46And I always invite my existing methods.
00:12:48All lives, I just want you to click, because you're already doing it.
00:12:51I've got so many previous ones.
00:12:53Yeah.
00:12:53So just click them.
00:12:54And these can both go as organic and paid.
00:13:00Like Q&A or quick tips.
00:13:01Just the small, exactly.
00:13:02The quick tips, exactly.
00:13:04And then for you specifically, so all of this is just stuff that's happening
00:13:07that we just need to capture.
00:13:08Yeah.
00:13:08But you specifically, I would say like, I would want you to make
00:13:1220 ads times four.
00:13:14Yeah.
00:13:15So like 80 ads that are just you.
00:13:18But I want the four to be different backgrounds and settings.
00:13:20So take your highest converting ads of all time.
00:13:23Over the last how many campaigns you've done.
00:13:24Put all 20 in here.
00:13:26Yeah.
00:13:27Do one of each of them in four different settings.
00:13:29Different t-shirt, different background, different whatever.
00:13:31Right.
00:13:32And they'll get you kind of 80.
00:13:33So it's like, if we're going from four ads to 80 ads, and that's just from this,
00:13:36and we still have all of these.
00:13:38The last thing that I want, I want to think about before you're, you've, um,
00:13:43I know you have my, my ads playbook, correct?
00:13:47My hooks playbook.
00:13:48Yes, exactly.
00:13:49So on the levels of awareness piece.
00:13:51The five levels of awareness is a framework by Eugene Schwartz, where every person in a market
00:13:56falls into five categories.
00:13:58So your advertising should speak to them differently.
00:14:00He contends that audiences go from the bottom, which is the warmest and smallest group,
00:14:04to the top, which is the coldest and largest.
00:14:07For Mim's business, in order to continue to scale her ads, she needs to target more pain or
00:14:12problem aware audiences rather than product or offer aware audiences to make sure that you don't get
00:14:18caught in like, when you scale it up, you scale up your ads, they don't perform.
00:14:23Yeah.
00:14:23Like they'll stop performing as well.
00:14:24Now there's always going to be some rise that goes up when you spend more.
00:14:26That's normal.
00:14:27But if all of a sudden it triples or something like that,
00:14:29typically it's because you have ads that are only really targeted at a very specific audience.
00:14:34Basically, it's like they're product aware or offer aware,
00:14:37but we need to have people who are like more pain aware.
00:14:39So some hooks that you want to experiment with are going to be more pain driven.
00:14:44So like, are you bored?
00:14:45Do you not know what to do?
00:14:46Like you would know the pains better than me.
00:14:47I know them inside and out.
00:14:49Those are the pains that I would use as my hooks more than somebody's bottom funnel.
00:14:52It's good to have offers and talk about the bootcamp and all that stuff.
00:14:54Like that's, that's here, right?
00:14:56That's going to be here.
00:14:57But if we want them to scale, you're going to,
00:14:59you'll probably need to have some hooks that are up here.
00:15:01Yeah.
00:15:01Okay.
00:15:01And that'll allow you to really open up the targeting.
00:15:05Okay.
00:15:06Now this is the cadence side.
00:15:09And so let's call this as number three, which is the hooks.
00:15:12All right.
00:15:13And I'll say number four is the decision,
00:15:15which is that I want to challenge you to be willing to do a hundred dollar check.
00:15:19All right.
00:15:20That's my challenge.
00:15:21Honestly, I feel like there's no challenge because I'll just do it now.
00:15:24I never go into my lawn capping my total ad spend.
00:15:28If the ads are performing as I want them to.
00:15:30And I just think I haven't been anywhere near enough aware of this before preparing for,
00:15:35you know, so now I know my numbers more than before.
00:15:38In the first month, you're giving it back.
00:15:39No big deal.
00:15:40And I'll stop picking myself every time the launch finishes.
00:15:43Yes.
00:15:44She's killing it already.
00:15:45I think she's an amazing human being.
00:15:47I spoke to her and she's, she's amazing.
00:15:50Period.
00:15:58I have two, two things.
00:16:01Because you already have a model that works a lot.
00:16:03The last thing I want to just break everything.
00:16:04All right.
00:16:05But you got this last time.
00:16:07What was the painful offer specifically that you added?
00:16:10Oh, when we spoke before, you'd said sell only annual.
00:16:15Yeah.
00:16:15Yeah.
00:16:15And really don't sell monthly at all.
00:16:17So then what percentage of people took?
00:16:20So it went from being, um, normally it's like a five to 15% or 10% normally take annual.
00:16:25And then previously when I switched to pitching really annual, it went to 30%.
00:16:30Okay.
00:16:30So that's why we have that 91.
00:16:31Okay.
00:16:32So you got 30%.
00:16:34Um, okay.
00:16:36I think that on your launch checkout page, let's say you've got your,
00:16:41you've got your annual and you've got your monthly, right?
00:16:44These are the two options.
00:16:46I still think that there should be a bump here.
00:16:49Like after they select.
00:16:50There is a bump right now, but it's only to my $47 course,
00:16:54which is a little bit like you like this stuff.
00:16:56Here's some more.
00:16:57How does that do?
00:16:58That does 30%.
00:16:59That's pretty good.
00:17:00So the sticker paper is one that I would put,
00:17:03because if they need this to do the thing,
00:17:05then it's like, we might as well just give it to them, right?
00:17:08The exact stuff.
00:17:09Yeah.
00:17:10This is my, this is my whole kit.
00:17:11So just let's just call this the bundle, right?
00:17:14If we can make this the physical bundle,
00:17:16you might be able to get, get away with like $99 on something like this.
00:17:20And it's going to be super high margin, right?
00:17:22It's just a thing.
00:17:23Right.
00:17:23No, no, but in the US though, it would be more slower, right?
00:17:25In the US it's way better.
00:17:26So for sure.
00:17:27Yeah.
00:17:28Which if you wanted to be wild with it, you just put this in here.
00:17:34So if you buy the monthly,
00:17:35and so then what happens is we can actually make this a bit of a false offer.
00:17:38Meaning.
00:17:39Like a deco.
00:17:39Kind of.
00:17:40So it's like, if we make this $149 or let's just, let's just go crazy.
00:17:44All right.
00:17:44Let's say this is $149 for my full physical bundle.
00:17:47You'd say, but hey guys, if you're going to,
00:17:48if you do the annual, I'll throw the $149 in.
00:17:51I like that loads.
00:17:52Yeah.
00:17:52Yeah.
00:17:53Yeah.
00:17:53This is what I'm saying with the,
00:17:54I want a physical product premium for annual.
00:17:56Cause we, your, your LTVs are already around 300.
00:17:59So I don't, I was thinking, cause if it was much lower,
00:18:00I'd say, okay, maybe we can lower the annual and then we'll get more takers.
00:18:03Right.
00:18:03But if that's not the case and we know that they have to have this.
00:18:07Yeah.
00:18:07In order to do the thing.
00:18:08Definitely.
00:18:09So if they're like, well,
00:18:10I'm going to have to buy this either way.
00:18:11I might as well get all the bonuses and get the stuff I need to do the thing.
00:18:14And they're committing to annual.
00:18:15It's like they're making a decision to commit to the hobby for a year.
00:18:18Yeah.
00:18:18Cause your cost on this is going to be like 10 bucks.
00:18:19Yeah.
00:18:20Maybe plus another $10 in shipping.
00:18:22Who cares?
00:18:22But that might all of a sudden take you to 50% here.
00:18:26And that'd be big.
00:18:27Right?
00:18:27Wonderful.
00:18:28Yes.
00:18:29Okay.
00:18:29So the big decision that I have is this.
00:18:34This would be a higher risk test, but this is like one that I would strongly consider.
00:18:39I'm not risk of this.
00:18:41Okay.
00:18:41Which is, I would rather just not mention the monthly at all.
00:18:46Yeah.
00:18:46Sell the annual, put the offer in there.
00:18:49Yeah.
00:18:49And then after the launch is over, when you close your cart,
00:18:53then run everyone else to your monthly that doesn't have the bonuses.
00:18:57Cause then you can do a mop up kit.
00:18:59Cause you'll still get plenty on that.
00:19:00But this will, because like, if you're doing, you're doing a full five day thing,
00:19:03you can sell a $300 ticket.
00:19:06And so people are just taking the cheaper one because you're offering the cheaper.
00:19:09Right.
00:19:10My goal here was how can I get that spend number?
00:19:12How do you feel comfortable?
00:19:14If you knew all of a sudden the AOV is $300.
00:19:17So maybe conversion cuts in half, but you are at a $300 sale.
00:19:22It's just a different level of confidence.
00:19:23Yeah.
00:19:24Cause now you're, now if you're at $150 in the first 30 days and you're like,
00:19:27I'm fine.
00:19:27I can spend more of this.
00:19:28You're spending.
00:19:29Yeah.
00:19:29Cool.
00:19:30So I had a wild, I had two wild ideas, right?
00:19:33Wild idea number one is let's just sell the annual, put this in there.
00:19:36And I think if we add this to that and make that the full offer,
00:19:39I think that'll do well.
00:19:42The second wild idea that I had, um, and again, this is wild.
00:19:48This is wild.
00:19:49Is that we position the bootcamp as a seven day trial of your $27 membership.
00:19:58That goes, even without you saying anymore, it goes so well.
00:20:00Cause the whole point of it is supposed to be like a teaser, a taster of this is what you get
00:20:04if you remember.
00:20:05Yeah.
00:20:06Because then you've automatically converted 100% of your traffic instead of 22.
00:20:10So they're signing up for the continuity and they have to count.
00:20:13And it's free.
00:20:14Yeah.
00:20:14And then you're running a seven day or five day, whatever that, you know, whatever you want.
00:20:18But then your whole thing is pushing to annual.
00:20:20Yes.
00:20:20Yeah.
00:20:21So you have a hundred percent conversion and then you push everybody to annual.
00:20:26Yeah.
00:20:27That's my, that's my wild test.
00:20:29I really like it.
00:20:31I guess my, I worry that then I'm going to get to the challenge ends after a couple of weeks,
00:20:36then 30 days ends and I, and people leave.
00:20:40Well, they will, but this is such a good onboarding too.
00:20:42It is.
00:20:43Like the seven day challenge is also just onboarding for all the members.
00:20:46Yeah.
00:20:49I love, I love a test.
00:20:50You could arguably test both at the same time, which I'm not always the biggest fan
00:20:55of because if we look at the math, right.
00:20:56Let's just do the math.
00:20:58So let's say you've got a hundred people who, who buy your thing, right.
00:21:01You can.
00:21:02Yeah.
00:21:02They buy the bootcamp.
00:21:02Right.
00:21:03Where you know that we're going to have 22 of them who are going to have a lifetime gross
00:21:07profit of 300.
00:21:08Right.
00:21:11So we have, whatever that is, 6,600.
00:21:15That's coming in from these people.
00:21:16Right now on the front end, it's costing you $3,700.
00:21:20Right.
00:21:21Yeah.
00:21:22So you get these people.
00:21:24Right.
00:21:24Yeah.
00:21:24And this is the issue from a cash perspective.
00:21:26Mm-hmm.
00:21:27Correct.
00:21:27That's the problem.
00:21:28Yeah.
00:21:29Now you said that you get $91.
00:21:31Uh, now.
00:21:32Yep.
00:21:33Yeah.
00:21:33But that $91 is only on the buyers.
00:21:35Correct.
00:21:36Mm-hmm.
00:21:36It's not on these people.
00:21:37Yeah.
00:21:38Okay.
00:21:38It's only on the 22%.
00:21:40That's the issue.
00:21:40Yeah.
00:21:41So this is the real problem.
00:21:42Yeah.
00:21:42Yeah.
00:21:42So where this, where it gets more interesting is like, let's say that you spend $3,700 to
00:21:47get a hundred and, uh, you make $3,500.
00:21:51Yeah.
00:21:52Whatever.
00:21:52Right.
00:21:52Which could be it.
00:21:53Yeah.
00:21:53So then that would mean you have $200 to acquire 22 customers.
00:21:57Mm-hmm.
00:21:57The net net actually works out to.
00:21:59Yeah.
00:21:59So that LTV to CAC is crazy.
00:22:01It's like I built my list for free.
00:22:02Yeah.
00:22:02You spent $200 to make $6,600.
00:22:04Mm-hmm.
00:22:04That's great.
00:22:05Yeah.
00:22:05So the idea with the trial would be if we had those same hundred people, but let's
00:22:11say the trial conversion at the end was, it'll probably be closer to like 55%.
00:22:15Like, especially if you do like a five day thing like this.
00:22:17And all of a sudden you're at 55 people and they have the same $300 LTV.
00:22:22Now that doesn't include the fact that we're going to get annuals, but even if no
00:22:25one bought annual and we just had the $300,000, now we're at, you know, $15,000 or $16,500.
00:22:33And so we would, you'd actually make up for the money that you didn't make on the front.
00:22:39Now, obviously we still have upsells.
00:22:40We should still do that.
00:22:40Yeah.
00:22:41But I'm saying even if you had no upsells.
00:22:42Yes.
00:22:43And you just had this.
00:22:45Yeah.
00:22:45You would make more because you're all in, you're at, you know, 90, whatever that is,
00:22:48you know, 11 or 10,000 is what you're making here versus 16.
00:22:52So you get like a 50, 60% lift.
00:22:55So that would be like, that would be the play if it was trial.
00:22:59But I think you can go trial and then upsell tools, right?
00:23:05Upsell the stuff they're going to need for the challenge, right?
00:23:07And then you'll still be able to get some cash from all those people.
00:23:11And you can make it a $1 trial.
00:23:13So you wouldn't, so you have a working card or whatever.
00:23:15I would not introduce this.
00:23:17I would do this first.
00:23:18Yeah.
00:23:18I think so too.
00:23:19Okay, cool.
00:23:19Do this first.
00:23:20I'm up for a challenge, but that feels.
00:23:22Yeah.
00:23:22Yeah.
00:23:22That's very manageable.
00:23:23Yeah.
00:23:24Yeah.
00:23:24So this is, I'd say test B.
00:23:26I see that.
00:23:27And this is test A.
00:23:27I have so much confidence that doing this alone is going to hugely change the outcome
00:23:32of the event in terms of members and profit.
00:23:34And then I feel like that's like the explode step.
00:23:37Yes.
00:23:37And you can say this, you only get all the tools if you buy the annual during the event.
00:23:41Right.
00:23:41Yeah.
00:23:42Because it costs me a lot of money and I got to ship it and I got to figure all this stuff out.
00:23:44So I can only do it with people now.
00:23:46Yeah.
00:23:46I really like that.
00:23:48I feel good about it.
00:23:49I feel good about it too.
00:23:50So when Alex talked to me about the trial, offering a trial and having that be a way
00:23:55to really help my members get a really good experience during a launch, that has really
00:24:00helped me think about the way I've been looking at bringing new members in, in a completely different
00:24:04way that I'd never considered.
00:24:06I've definitely considered doing a free trial before, but not during a launch in that way.
00:24:11So that blew my mind.
00:24:13And as Alex said, it's a bigger, bolder move, but one that I'm really excited to take.
00:24:18We have a simple plan.
00:24:20A simple plan.
00:24:22This is the spend cadence we follow.
00:24:24I know it works very well.
00:24:26We're going to do way more creative this next round.
00:24:28Yeah, we are.
00:24:29Right?
00:24:29You're going to create more organic as well, which is going to feed the list too.
00:24:35We're going to have more pain-based hooks so we can go a little bit upfo.
00:24:37Yep.
00:24:38We're going to increase our spending capacity from a CAC perspective.
00:24:41Right.
00:24:42Yeah.
00:24:43And the test that we're going to run on the next one is this one.
00:24:46Yeah.
00:24:46And if that works, then all the game is going to be is how do I make 800 ads and spend
00:24:52$100,000 on my next launch.
00:24:54Done.
00:25:00All right.
00:25:00Let's see where we got in the scaling room at.
00:25:03Okay.
00:25:04Yes.
00:25:04Thank you.
00:25:05Thank you.
00:25:05Thank you.
00:25:05Thank you.
00:25:06So how many points do you have right now?
00:25:08Like two?
00:25:08Yeah.
00:25:09One's my husband.
00:25:12Let's see here.
00:25:14Your revenue is a little bit higher than your headcount would suggest.
00:25:18So you're probably more on this side.
00:25:20Yeah.
00:25:21Than you are here.
00:25:23And so what we're doing is if we're walking through this,
00:25:27we're going annual, we're adding the stuff to price to a better person.
00:25:31We're making all this extra content to make better free stuff.
00:25:34And also V2 of this test is actually just running the trial as the front end offer.
00:25:40We're making more creative to boost the volume.
00:25:42A little bit more.
00:25:43Yeah.
00:25:44Also, as a side note, I don't know if you're already doing this,
00:25:46but I would make sure that you optimize your campaigns around purchases if you're not already.
00:25:50I always do.
00:25:51Okay.
00:25:51Just in case.
00:25:51I have to.
00:25:52Yeah.
00:25:53And then the one thing that I didn't see on your numbers,
00:25:55but I would like to get to is just EPCs.
00:25:59It's earnings per click.
00:26:00And I think you'll sleep better knowing that you are doing fine.
00:26:02That's it.
00:26:03You just giving me this is enough.
00:26:05And so the more I know, the better I'll be with that.
00:26:08Yeah.
00:26:09One thing that I did miss is I think we should consider
00:26:14when you're making these ads, you said you had hook variations.
00:26:17Yes.
00:26:17I would experiment with different call-outs for avatars.
00:26:20So like in the lead book, we talk about call-outs.
00:26:22I've done that only in a limited way.
00:26:25Literally separating mothers and grandmothers, but I haven't really done a great deal.
00:26:29I would go underneath of, I would go more subspecific,
00:26:33but like the game is now a game of a hundred pawns and no oceans.
00:26:36Like you're draining a hundred pawns of audiences to get your scale,
00:26:41more than trying to advertise to the ocean.
00:26:43To the world.
00:26:43Right.
00:26:44Like you're running two ads and trying to convert,
00:26:45but you're trying to cover everyone with the same messaging.
00:26:47It's true.
00:26:48Right.
00:26:49And so if you want to get the scale, you have to go down, which is counterintuitive.
00:26:52No, I like that.
00:26:52Cool.
00:26:53That's easily done too.
00:26:54All right.
00:26:54Rockin' on.
00:26:56I know that despite anyone getting a scale or a fail,
00:27:00there'll be nothing stopping the people that I met today.
00:27:02I'm so inspired by them.
00:27:04As much as we know that we are contestants and competitors,
00:27:07and I'm certainly not glossing over the fact that this is a competition at the end of the day,
00:27:11we really came here to just represent ourselves and be the best version of ourselves that we could be.
00:27:16And I think that everyone shared that goal.
00:27:27So this is scale or fail.
00:27:31To be clear, I think that all of this will literally just get you more of what's already working.
00:27:37There's very few universes where I think that you adding the physical product premium
00:27:42and only presenting the annual offer doesn't generate more revenue up front.
00:27:47And we've de-risked this test by being able to just run it as a split test with the exact same
00:27:51price point, $10, $10 in both.
00:27:52That way the ads can be the same.
00:27:53One just includes a trial and one doesn't.
00:27:55Everything else in the funnel will still be the same.
00:27:58So the question is, do I want to spend a year working with you to scale this?
00:28:09Or do I think there's something that's going to get in the way that's going to prevent us from scaling?
00:28:17So the verdict is,
00:28:24you will be scaling with me.
00:28:25Fuck yes.
00:28:26All right.
00:28:26So you're moving on the next thing.
00:28:28All right.
00:28:29This is a very simple plan.
00:28:31I just want you to not be afraid to spend more.
00:28:34You can't be afraid.
00:28:35And you've gone through enough stuff.
00:28:37There's no reason you should be afraid, right?
00:28:38Yeah.
00:28:39It's like, you know how to make money.
00:28:40Yeah.
00:28:42You can always go back to what you did before.
00:28:44But this has the potential to 5x or 10x the business.
00:28:49Right.
00:28:49And I think this will work.
00:28:51Thank you.
00:28:52Thank you.
00:28:52All right, we'll rock and roll.
00:28:53Thanks, everyone.
00:28:56Alex just told me that I am a scale.
00:28:58And I'm so excited.
00:29:00I'm so happy.
00:29:01I have so much faith in my business and my ability to implement everything that he said.
00:29:06And it just feels like so much has just opened up for me.
00:29:09So it was a combination of him validating some of the things that I was worried about.
00:29:13And he gave me a really good solution for them that I hadn't been able to reach by myself.
00:29:18And then a few other tests that I can do too.
00:29:20But there was nothing that I'm not really excited to try.
00:29:23And I can't wait to see how things go.
00:29:25I felt no resistance on any of the things that I was recommending.
00:29:28And also the last thing that I told her to do, she partially did and it doubled her
00:29:32average card value.
00:29:33And so I am pretty confident that both of these things will dramatically increase her card value.
00:29:41And in the business that she's in, she's in a media arbitrage business,
00:29:43which is fundamentally key by clicks for less than you can make on them
00:29:45because it's a very scalable business.
00:29:47And so like, honestly, once just the math gets right, she can just do this.
00:29:51And from a product perspective, she had 5% churn, which is really good.
00:29:54Hearing from Alex that there was so much potential to scale has not only validated
00:29:58what my hopes were and what a lot of the data was pointing to.
00:30:02To me, it's simple.
00:30:03If I follow the process that I've been given and I trust in that,
00:30:05and I do the things I say I'm going to do, then the success is inevitable.
00:30:11The next 90 days are going to be incredible.
00:30:19The business, I felt like at scale, it was a good product, very wholesome.
00:30:23And I didn't think she would be afraid.
00:30:25And since she'd been marketing for 10 years, she had the technical chops to do all of these things.
00:30:29So there's really nothing that was really stopping her besides the decision and the strategy,
00:30:33which she just got both and she made the other.
00:30:35So this was scale or fail.
00:30:36See you next time.
00:30:38Okay, let's do an update.
00:30:39One thing that Alex really encouraged me to do was go much bigger on ads in terms of creatives,
00:30:44angles, testing, volume.
00:30:47And I've been using one of Alex's playbooks to come up with ads and a way to test them in a really
00:30:52strategic way.
00:30:53I'm already seeing with early stages of promotion, everything going in the right direction,
00:30:59exactly as Alex said it would.
00:31:00What a shock us.
00:31:01So yeah, that's my update.
00:31:03Let's see what happens.
00:31:06Next time on scale or fail.
00:31:09My name is Tina Sue and I help parents of children with autism, ADHD and speech delay.
00:31:15You have a responsibility to the business and the business has a responsibility to customers.
00:31:19But your responsibility is to make sure the business survives and grows.
00:31:21So if you're going to do that, you need to make it like five times as expensive.
00:31:25Oh.
00:31:25So it's like, think like 8,000, 8,000, 10,000 is what it would be if I wanted to have.
00:31:29So I have to decide whether you scale or fail.
00:31:31I can execute.
00:31:33And so I'm very torn on this one of whether or not you can draw the line.