00:00:00- What do you think about sort of mythology?
00:00:02Is it a, it's not the full dose of religion
00:00:07with some of its sort of stodginess and inaccessibility?
00:00:10- So here's my broad view of religion,
00:00:12spirituality, et cetera.
00:00:14There are these mystics all around the world,
00:00:16Jesus, Muhammad, Rumi, you know.
00:00:19They get it at various levels.
00:00:23It's tough to translate.
00:00:24It's like, how do you say it?
00:00:26First off, how does it come out of your mouth
00:00:28in a way that is honest to your experience?
00:00:30Extremely challenging.
00:00:32And then for somebody who hasn't had that experience,
00:00:33they're gonna write it down now in a book
00:00:35and codify how everyone else needs to be.
00:00:37So I think that's what's going on
00:00:38with a lot of the big books,
00:00:40is that there is a mystical insight
00:00:43from somebody who got it at a very, very, very deep level.
00:00:47Difficult for them to speak,
00:00:48difficult for other people to write down 60 years later.
00:00:51And then we're a lot of people
00:00:53that aren't directly connected with that experience,
00:00:56projecting their mother and their father onto the creator
00:00:59of the universe, that he's upset with me
00:01:00and he wants to punish me.
00:01:01And a lot of that made it into the text.
00:01:03So I don't treat the Bible as literally every word is true,
00:01:09but I treat it as a repository that has been mistranslated
00:01:13some of the time of a brilliant mystic,
00:01:16like somebody who got it.
00:01:18And I treat other texts like that,
00:01:20like there's some level of understanding integration
00:01:23that the person who came up with this had.
00:01:25That's why it survived so long.
00:01:26That's why it was so meaningful to people,
00:01:28even if they couldn't describe why
00:01:30it was so meaningful to them.
00:01:32So Greek, Egyptian, these pantheon gods are really useful
00:01:37for relating to you the archetypal,
00:01:40emotional patterns of life.
00:01:43So for instance, the story of Ares, Aphrodite, and Hephaestus.
00:01:48Hephaestus is the craftsman god.
00:01:51He's got a lame leg.
00:01:54He's a craftsman.
00:01:56You might call him a brainiac.
00:01:57He's not a physical powerhouse.
00:01:59He's the only god that is crippled.
00:02:01He is betrothed and wedded to Aphrodite,
00:02:04the goddess of beauty,
00:02:05but she cheats on him all the time
00:02:06with the alpha chad, Ares, right?
00:02:09So they have a bunch of kids,
00:02:10but the story of Hephaestus and Aphrodite and Ares
00:02:13is that Hephaestus learns that he's being cuckolded.
00:02:15He creates a cage above the bed.
00:02:18Ares and Aphrodite go at it.
00:02:19He drops the cage on them
00:02:20and then brings in all the other gods to laugh at them.
00:02:23And it's like an archetypal exploration
00:02:26of the pain of the academically inclined guy
00:02:31who is hurt by the aggressive masculine man,
00:02:36who takes something that he loves
00:02:39and then moves into his zone of power,
00:02:42which is intellectual and shames him.
00:02:45And you see this play out.
00:02:47I've heard Brennan Lee Mulligan,
00:02:48who you might be familiar with,
00:02:49who's a Dungeons and Dragons guy, very smart,
00:02:51tell his very personal story of he was a smart kid.
00:02:55The tough kids pushed him around, made fun of him,
00:02:56but he got really good at insulting them
00:02:58so he could just cut them to the core
00:02:59because he was smart enough to do it.
00:03:01And so there's these patterns
00:03:03that if you look at these archetypes,
00:03:04almost like Rorschach tests,
00:03:06which is, which one is calling to me?
00:03:09I don't know.
00:03:10There's something about, I'm curious about Ares.
00:03:12I'm curious about this.
00:03:13You look up the story, you read it.
00:03:15What do I make of it is a beautiful way
00:03:17to start to recognize some of these archetypal patterns
00:03:21in your life because they have existed
00:03:23for thousands of years before you.
00:03:25And I could go on and on and on
00:03:27about all the different ones that have been valuable to me.
00:03:29So symbolic, the story is more than just the story.
00:03:34It's less the literal?
00:03:36Is that kind of the, what's the key?
00:03:39So the key that Jung, Peterson, et cetera would say
00:03:42is that these are like metaphysically real
00:03:45in a way that is not just metaphorical or symbolic,
00:03:49that there are, how can I describe this?
00:03:52That there are near universal structures in human psychology,
00:03:56for instance, for father and for mother,
00:04:00that we do not come in utterly blank slate.
00:04:02And there are recurring patterns based on,
00:04:05you could call it evolution, or if you're spiritually based,
00:04:07just like this is what it is to be human,
00:04:10that by relating to these archetypes,
00:04:13seeing how they strike us,
00:04:15we can learn the pieces of ourselves that are missing.
00:04:17So maybe we didn't have the world's greatest mother
00:04:20or greatest father,
00:04:21but if we relate to an archetypal story of a good mother
00:04:25or of the wise father or something,
00:04:28we can re-come into contact with the piece of us
00:04:32that we felt should have been there when we were kids,
00:04:34but we couldn't put our finger on, we couldn't describe,
00:04:36and so we can't explain the pain
00:04:38that we're experiencing of the loss.
00:04:40These stories help us reconnect with that
00:04:42in the same way that the hero's journey
00:04:44inspires young men to go out, be heroes,
00:04:46understand that there's a sacrifice and a rocky montage
00:04:49that they have to go through.
00:04:50These stories give you steps and relationship with,
00:04:55oh, that's what was missing,
00:04:58or, oh, that's what's up next for me.
00:05:00I'll give you one small example of this.
00:05:03Joseph Campbell has this hero's journey that he charts out,
00:05:06and it's basically a clock, where you start up here.
00:05:08Three o'clock, you meet the mentor.
00:05:09You descend into the underworld.
00:05:11It's the belly of the beast.
00:05:12It's the Garden of Gethsemane at the bottom.
00:05:14You come back up, you get the divine revelation.
00:05:16You come back to the community.
00:05:18I had been charting where I was,
00:05:19and he's got basically, I think,
00:05:2112 to 17 different stages, and I found myself,
00:05:24I was like, oh, this is belly of the beast.
00:05:25I am lost, utterly lost.
00:05:28And shortly after that, I was like, what's up next?
00:05:30Temptation of the woman.
00:05:32So in the story of the Odyssey,
00:05:34and stop me if I'm ramming you.
00:05:35- No, dude, I want more myth.
00:05:37- Okay, more myth.
00:05:38In the story of the Odyssey,
00:05:40Odysseus has gone through everything.
00:05:42He had 600 men.
00:05:44They're all dead.
00:05:45He's washed up on this island.
00:05:47He still hasn't arrived home after near,
00:05:48like, 13 years after the Trojan War.
00:05:52He still can't get back to Ithaca.
00:05:54And he's defeated, and he lands on this island.
00:05:57Every island he's gotten to has been torturous,
00:05:59and there is a beautiful nymph named Calypso, a goddess,
00:06:03who just wants to marry him, have sex with him,
00:06:05and keep him there.
00:06:06That's it.
00:06:07Just stay.
00:06:08And so he gets to the end of the journey,
00:06:10and he's offered, just stay with me.
00:06:11He's with a goddess, and he stays for a while,
00:06:14but he ultimately makes the decisions like,
00:06:16no, I have to go back.
00:06:17I know it's gonna be hard.
00:06:19I know it's been brutal to get here, but I have to continue.
00:06:21And this is what Campbell calls the temptation
00:06:23of the feminine, temptation of the woman.
00:06:26And I found myself here, went through the bottom of this ark,
00:06:29and a buy offer comes in for a charisma on command.
00:06:33And it's, dude, you could just ride off in the sunset.
00:06:36You could just put it away.
00:06:37It's, you're frustrated with it.
00:06:38It's not working.
00:06:39Just, you could take the money.
00:06:40I'm dividing it up in my head.
00:06:41How many years?
00:06:42How much of this?
00:06:44And I knew where I was in the journey,
00:06:45and I was able to go, ah, I know this,
00:06:47and this isn't what I want.
00:06:49Even though it's gonna be hard, I want the struggle.
00:06:52There's something, there's a home that is calling me.
00:06:56And so I was able to navigate that
00:06:57with a bit more understanding.
00:06:59And then I knew after that comes atonement with the Father.
00:07:02And so there's this other stage that I had to go through,
00:07:04and I could go on and on and on.
00:07:06And then I knew after that comes apotheosis,
00:07:09which is the connection with the divine,
00:07:10and then the ultimate boon.
00:07:11And right now I sit at the return,
00:07:14which is the refusal to return,
00:07:16is basically where I'm at right now.
00:07:18So after you get the grail, the lamp, the thing,
00:07:20and you've done all that work,
00:07:21oftentimes the hero's like, well, that was really hard.
00:07:24I don't think I wanna go home.
00:07:25I finally made myself comfortable
00:07:27in this other secluded inner world.
00:07:30I don't think I wanna bring this back to the community.
00:07:32And sometimes there's a chase.
00:07:33Sometimes someone has to pull them out of it.
00:07:35But I was like, oh, maybe that's what this podcast is for me.
00:07:38This is Chris inviting me back to the universe.
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00:08:47Thank you very much for tuning in.
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