00:00:00Give me, after all of the experimentation, what's the 30,000 foot view on how to get
00:00:05perfect sleep?
00:00:06You want to lower your resting heart rate before bed.
00:00:10It's the highest value biomarker you can track on a daily basis.
00:00:14So you'll find that everything that increases your heart rate before bed, besides sex, is
00:00:19bad for you and everything that lowers your heart rate before bed is good for you.
00:00:22So for example, food, timing of food is really important.
00:00:25So if your bedtime is 10 p.m., you want to have your final meal of the day at 6 p.m.
00:00:29So four hours, I personally do like 10 to 12 hours because I really like that digestion
00:00:33time.
00:00:34It lowers my heart rate to like 39 to 40 beats per minute.
00:00:36So food, four hours before, 60 minutes before bed, screen's off.
00:00:41So that's very hard because we're all addicted to our phones, like hard-cut phones off because
00:00:46you want to avoid scrolling, texting, working, and that's very arousing for the body.
00:00:51Red light, amber light in the house, so whites, blue lights are really bad for melatonin release.
00:00:58You want to have a 60-minute wind-down so when screens are off, you want to use that
00:01:0260 minutes to just calm yourself down.
00:01:04So this is very hard because we've created these habits where we're glued to our phones
00:01:10and if we're not on our phones, we don't know what to do with ourselves.
00:01:13And so it creates this panic.
00:01:16So the 60-minute time window before bed is really precious in that you just need to kind
00:01:20of be with yourself.
00:01:21Now you can hang out with a friend, a family member, you can go for a walk, your breathwork,
00:01:26and a hobby, like puzzle, journal, like whatever, but you just need to learn how to be with
00:01:31yourself without stimulation.
00:01:33And that will naturally allow you to calm yourself down.
00:01:36I do this process where I talk to myself.
00:01:38So like I talk to my various Brian's.
00:01:40So like sleep Brian comes on duty at 7.30 p.m. because my bedtime's at 8.30 p.m. and then
00:01:45all the Brian's line up and they want to talk to me.
00:01:47How many are there?
00:01:48Oh, man, there's like probably a dozen.
00:01:49Like probably loud.
00:01:50It's like a Bonnie Blue meetup.
00:01:51Okay.
00:01:52Yeah.
00:01:53So the first one's ambitious Brian.
00:01:54It's by far the loudest, right?
00:01:56He's always like, he shows up and he's like, I got a banger idea.
00:02:00Brand new idea.
00:02:01It's fucking amazing.
00:02:02And sleep Brian says, I love you, ambitious Brian, right?
00:02:06Doing us a real solid, like doing great out there.
00:02:09Also we're in sleep mode.
00:02:10So I'm gonna write down your idea and tomorrow we'll talk about this.
00:02:14And the next one is anxious Brian.
00:02:15He's like doing all the checks.
00:02:16Like today, did you make any big errors?
00:02:18Did you like, you know, do anything stupid, say anything you regret?
00:02:24And so like doing that internal reconciliation of like, do you have good self-awareness and
00:02:27they all just line up, but if you don't talk to them, then when your head hits a pillow,
00:02:33they show up and they're like, we're here and we want to talk about our stuff.
00:02:37And then you go to bed, finally you wake up at 2 AM and they're like, we're back.
00:02:40And so you've got to have some kind of reconciliation process to calm those voices.
00:02:44So like those are the big ones, like food, light, wind down routine, screens off.
00:02:55And then caffeine.
00:02:56So you want to have your final caffeine around noon each day, so he has a six hour half-life.
00:03:00Those are the real big ones.
00:03:01So, but what you want is like for a man, you want to be like 50 ish heart rate, same with
00:03:07the female.
00:03:08If you're in that zone, you're doing pretty well.
00:03:09If you can bump down a bit more and once you get that nighttime routine knocked down, then
00:03:14you can start exercising very well.
00:03:15Like if you sleep really well, your willpower skyrockets.
00:03:19If you sleep poorly, it like knocks your prefrontal cortex offline.
00:03:22You can't really have much more willpower.
00:03:24So that's like number one.
00:03:26Okay.
00:03:27Lots there.
00:03:28How do you avoid an optimal routine becoming a fragile superstition?
00:03:35Yeah.
00:03:39People try to, they come back, they come with that argument and that's great.
00:03:42Like the body loves routine.
00:03:48Now it does not mean that you have to always be in a routine, but the body is built for
00:03:52routine.
00:03:53So for example, if your bedtime is 10 PM, your circadian rhythm is locked in to 10 PM and
00:03:59your body expects sleep to happen at 10 PM.
00:04:02This is what jet lag is.
00:04:03Yes, exactly.
00:04:04And so like you have a garbage truck that rolls through your body around 1030 PM and it's there
00:04:11to pick up all the trash.
00:04:13What is that?
00:04:14It's your, basically your cleansing system of like your lymphatic system is cleaning all
00:04:19the trash from your body.
00:04:20And if you're not asleep at 1030 PM and in your deep sleep mode, it's going to not come.
00:04:25So you've got trash buildup.
00:04:26Like New York, you've got the trash bags all over the place.
00:04:29And so people think if I'm not in bed by 10, I'm going to go to bed at one, that's okay.
00:04:34I'll sleep in tomorrow morning, make up.
00:04:36It doesn't work that way.
00:04:37And so the body has very specific rhythms that it wants to be on.
00:04:41And so when you lock in, it's good.
00:04:43And so when someone makes the argument, like I'm going to get my body or some traumatic
00:04:46stress, right?
00:04:47I'm like, push it to one and then it moved back.
00:04:50The body hates it.
00:04:51Like inconsistent sleep is as bad as little sleep.
00:04:54I was going to say, do you, when it comes to prioritization, is duration more important
00:04:59than regularity or are they equal?
00:05:01Regularity by far is the best one.
00:05:04Yeah.
00:05:05More than duration.
00:05:06Oh, so I'm sorry.
00:05:07You said duration.
00:05:08I don't know, I'm not sure on that one.
00:05:11It's kind of like picking your favorite child.
00:05:13Yeah.
00:05:14Yeah.
00:05:15Because you kind of need both.
00:05:16Yeah.
00:05:17Like the lesson here is, cause these are bad habits people have.
00:05:21You need to be on time.
00:05:22You can't make it up.
00:05:24You can't skip during the week and then make it up the weekend.
00:05:27It doesn't work that way.
00:05:28So you miss a garbage truck every day.
00:05:31It doesn't come back.
00:05:32Like, sure.
00:05:33Maybe in the weekend, but then you're, you're so off on your circadian rhythm that like now
00:05:37is a garbage truck even in service.
00:05:41Okay.
00:05:42So I understand what you mean with regards to the timing, but the 60 minute window, what
00:05:50if you don't get it?
00:05:51What if this, you're out at dinner, you're doing something with friends, you're hanging
00:05:56out, you don't get to, you're around some bright light.
00:05:58I've got a great, a great story from a friend when he was in his hyper, hyper-optimizer zone,
00:06:03which everybody goes through where it's like the stress of trying to be perfect kills you
00:06:07more quickly than you're imperfections too.
00:06:10And he had this 60 minute wind down routine, which was blue light blockers on and the mouth
00:06:17tape and the nose strip and the magnesium by glycinate and everything else.
00:06:22And he'd been sort of winding down for 60 minutes and his girlfriend at the time had been downstairs
00:06:26and he was brushing his teeth in the dark so that he wouldn't have any light on.
00:06:31And she just comes like tinkering in, hits the light in the bathroom and the lights come
00:06:35on.
00:06:36He's like, ah, he's blinded.
00:06:37He hasn't looked at light for an hour, goes to bed and he's raging.
00:06:39He's like, ah, it is my entire routine has been messed up and I laid there sort of staring
00:06:43at the ceiling, doesn't sleep.
00:06:44And she drops off within five minutes having just come in from like, you know, scrolling
00:06:49TikTok or whatever.
00:06:51The example is about the fragility of reliance on that and the fear that without it, what
00:06:59does that create?
00:07:00Oh, I mean, how am I going to be able to write my book today?
00:07:03I didn't get my, you know, like, as you said, like what were the stupid things that I said
00:07:08today?
00:07:09That's anxious, Brian.
00:07:10But another type of anxiety is, oh, I didn't get my routine done, therefore I can't sleep,
00:07:15which becomes self-fulfilling.
00:07:16Sleep's one of the very few things that trying harder at it makes it worse.
00:07:20Yeah.
00:07:21Yeah.
00:07:22I mean, people can find their happy balance.
00:07:24I think if you look at the various archetypes of people, some people love that kind of regimen.
00:07:31They love to be regimented.
00:07:34They like structure.
00:07:35They like process, procedure, order, and that's just their personality type.
00:07:39Other people like the girlfriend in the story, she's not.
00:07:42And so I think the thing here is for people to recognize their kind of archetype of where
00:07:48they naturally gravitate to where they feel good about themselves.
00:07:51If you're not naturally orderly and structured, like don't be that, right?
00:07:54If you're, so it's just like find your gem, but understand there are principles at play,
00:08:00which you can't just override.
00:08:02Regardless of whether you like structure or don't, like if you have a three hour swing
00:08:06between bedtimes across a week, yeah, yeah.
00:08:10Your body doesn't work in that way.
00:08:12Okay.
00:08:14What are, what are the things that people focus on for sleep that don't move the needle?
00:08:21I, I really, uh, I guess I take 300 MCGs of magnesium of melatonin, just like, so a third
00:08:30of a gram, a microgram, milligram.
00:08:33Yes.
00:08:34Okay.
00:08:35Yeah.
00:08:36Yeah.
00:08:37Yeah.
00:08:38Yeah.
00:08:39People, people fucking way, way, way overcooked.
00:08:40Like one milligram, five milligrams, like.
00:08:41There's 30 and 50 milligrams.
00:08:42Yeah, exactly.
00:08:43It's a very tiny dose of melatonin.
00:08:44Uh, it's to offset the calcification that happens in my pineal gland.
00:08:47Like as you age, your pineal gland calcifies.
00:08:49You produce less melatonin.
00:08:50So it's like a little offset, teeny bit.
00:08:52So in 10 years time, maybe you'll take 500 micrograms.
00:08:55Yeah, exactly.
00:08:56And so it's, it's a very small touch, but otherwise I don't take anything for sleep.
00:08:59Okay.
00:09:00And so I'd so much rather build habits.
00:09:02And this is the same thing, like Americans, just like we are, we take more antidepressants
00:09:07than any country in the world.
00:09:08Quick fix.
00:09:09We love pills.
00:09:10Like we love pills to solve fundamental problems and habits.
00:09:13Gummy or a powder.
00:09:14Yeah.
00:09:15Habits are the strongest ones.
00:09:16So like, that's why I focus on just build your sturdy habits.
00:09:20And the archetype you are, that's the tried and true thing that delivers the best.
00:09:24Now, if you want to try to amplify with whatever you take cool, but generally speaking, um,
00:09:29it's really about habits.
00:09:31If you struggle to stay asleep because your body gets too hot or too cold, this is going
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00:10:35Thank you very much for tuning in.
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