스크립트
00:00:00Speaking of football, do you know who Cristiano Ronaldo was named after?
00:00:04Go on.
00:00:05You're a big fan of football.
00:00:06One of the most famous, maybe the most famous player on the planet.
00:00:09Who do you think Cristiano Ronaldo was named after?
00:00:11Well, it wouldn't be the Brazilian Ronaldo because he almost overlapped in terms of careers.
00:00:16Oh, is it Ronald Reagan?
00:00:19Yes, yes.
00:00:20Yes.
00:00:20Wow.
00:00:21My parents named me after Ronald Reagan because they both liked this name and thought it sounded
00:00:26strong, Ronaldo, whose full name is Cristiano Ronaldo.
00:00:29Dos Santos Aviero said in a GQ cover story, I know that my father admired him.
00:00:35Ronaldo was born February 5th, 1985, while Reagan was still president of the United States.
00:00:39But according to Ronaldo, his dad was a fan long before then.
00:00:43Told Riley that Reagan was his dad's favorite actor.
00:00:47That said, he wasn't too sure how the Republican leader would have felt about Ronaldo's outfit
00:00:50in the GQ cover that accompanied the article.
00:00:53Let's just say it's not very conservative.
00:00:55We've got an image of the outfit that Ronaldo had.
00:01:01Oh, wow.
00:01:02Ronald Reagan.
00:01:04I mean, identical, right?
00:01:06That's very much nominative determinism right there.
00:01:09I forgot because I was, I was so, I've not been in America too young for it as well.
00:01:15I forgot the fact that Reagan was an actor.
00:01:18He was an actor beforehand.
00:01:20Is he in big movies and stuff?
00:01:22I believe so, yeah.
00:01:23Oh, okay.
00:01:23It's kind of the prequel to Trump in a lot of way.
00:01:26There's also, if you like footballers' names, there's a South American player called Osama
00:01:30Vin Laden, whose brother is, I believe, called Saddam Hussein.
00:01:35Can you search chat GPT and is it V-I-N?
00:01:38I think it's Vin Laden and Saddam Hussein, two brothers in South America.
00:01:41This does sound too good to be true and like you've been gazumped by it.
00:01:45Well, it's interesting, particularly like Brazilian names, they often decide their own name.
00:01:51So you've got Ronaldinho, Fred, Hulk, great name.
00:01:58Pepe.
00:01:58Pepe.
00:01:59Well, Pepe's Portuguese, but they often just, unlike us, they just kind of, they don't often go with their own name.
00:02:04Yes, there is a Peruvian footballer named Osama Vin Laden, Jimenez Lopez, often written simply as Osama Vin Laden.
00:02:13Very good.
00:02:14He attracted international attention because it sounds almost identical to Osama Vin Laden.
00:02:20Actually, in Spanish, it's even closer because V and B are pronounced the same.
00:02:26Some unusual details have been widely reported.
00:02:29He said he was named after Osama Vin Laden.
00:02:32His brother is named Saddam Hussein, a Spanish spelling of Saddam Hussein.
00:02:36To avoid controversy, his jersey typically displays only Osama rather than his full surname.
00:02:45Wow.
00:02:46I mean, I want to meet his parents.
00:02:49I want to know what they've been reading.
00:02:53You can just do things, clearly.
00:02:55You can just name your kid after the most famous terrorist of the 21st century.
00:03:00A year after 9-11 too.
00:03:02Oh, fucking hell.
00:03:03Yes.
00:03:04Shit, that was done one year.
00:03:06So really hopping on the bandwagon post.
00:03:10That's buying Bitcoin while it's on a rip, isn't it?
00:03:12Jesus Christ.
00:03:13What's that story of Rory McDonald's walkout music?
00:03:17Oh, Rory McDonald, UFC fighter, used to walk out to some of the strangest songs.
00:03:26And people would kind of laugh as he was walking out.
00:03:29Like, why does he have such a weird niche in music?
00:03:33And it was, when it came out, he was interviewed.
00:03:36Like, why are you playing out some of these super strange songs?
00:03:39It would mix from like classical music.
00:03:41It would also have, Jared, look it up, like the different Rory McDonald songs.
00:03:46And when they interviewed him, he was like, it's not me who's picking the songs, it's the UFC.
00:03:51Then they go to the UFC and say, Rory's saying you're picking the songs.
00:03:53And it's like, no, we text him before every single UFC.
00:03:57And when it actually got into it, they were texting his old phone number, which had been
00:04:03given to somebody.
00:04:04If you go on the, yeah, go on Reddit.
00:04:07So here's the song.
00:04:08So he has a violin orchestra by George A. Quintero.
00:04:13One More Road to Cross by DMX.
00:04:16Personal Favourite.
00:04:17Can't Touch This by MC Hammer.
00:04:20UFC 133.
00:04:20Grew Up a Screw Up by Ludacris.
00:04:23So you've got to think, he goes from Lightwork Lupe Fiasco.
00:04:27I love the fact he did We Found Love twice in a row.
00:04:33He came out to St. Anger by Metallica twice in a row as well.
00:04:36He came out by 46 and 2 by Tool.
00:04:38That's a fucking slamming.
00:04:39And then Got the Life by Con.
00:04:41Okay.
00:04:42But so he says the UFC chooses.
00:04:46The UFC says he chooses.
00:04:47What's the truth?
00:04:48Well, it was somebody had his old phone number.
00:04:51So the UFC was texting it.
00:04:53And this person was obviously a UFC fan that was kind of in on the joke and just absolutely
00:04:58went on a rampage for multiple years.
00:05:02What would be the worst song to walk out to for you?
00:05:06For me?
00:05:07Yeah.
00:05:08Or best?
00:05:10Well, when I came down the love lift for Take Me Out, my first dating show, I wanted Jamie
00:05:15Jones' Hungry for the Power.
00:05:17Because at the time I thought I was really cool because I'd just done the season in Ibiza
00:05:20and everybody did remixes of it saying Hungry for the Powder.
00:05:24And I was like, oh, I'm fucking sick, man.
00:05:26I used to go to a, I'm sniffing ketamine in Ibiza and that.
00:05:29And the producers looked at me and said, why have you got this very low energy, deep house
00:05:34track for the walkout?
00:05:35We're going to give you example.
00:05:37Love kickstarts again.
00:05:39Was that?
00:05:40Okay.
00:05:41Fair enough.
00:05:42So that's like, as you come down and everyone's doing this, clapping above their heads.
00:05:50And the love kickstarts again.
00:05:53Chris Williamson.
00:05:55Yeah.
00:05:55Do you ever think?
00:05:56Single man, reveal yourself.
00:05:57That's what it is.
00:05:58Did you get, how did you perform?
00:06:00Did you get a date off Take Me Out?
00:06:01Did I get a date?
00:06:02I don't know.
00:06:03I don't know.
00:06:03You might have got a media.
00:06:05Blackout.
00:06:05The bloke before me did.
00:06:06Yeah.
00:06:07Everyone was backstage shitting themselves that they were going to get a blackout.
00:06:09How did you, how did you fare?
00:06:11I got on well.
00:06:12What was a deep conspiracy about Take Me Out, which for the American people is a British
00:06:16staple dating show.
00:06:18The first of many dating shows for me.
00:06:20And the biggest fear that anybody had was that all of the girls would turn their lights
00:06:27off.
00:06:27But earlier in the season, because for every, every time that they don't go on a date,
00:06:33that's another week that they're on TV.
00:06:36So all of the girls were incentivized at the start of the season to hit their lights so
00:06:40that you didn't get, and we were episode, I was episode two.
00:06:43So I was doing it on hard mode, mate.
00:06:45I was doing it on hard mode.
00:06:46Still had 11 girls to choose from at the end.
00:06:47Show me the incentives.
00:06:49And I'll show you the outcome.
00:06:50Yeah.
00:06:51The ITV producers of Take Me Out do not, have not read the almanac of Charlie Munger.
00:06:56What would you, what would you want to walk out to?
00:06:59For a fight?
00:07:00Take Me Out or a fight?
00:07:01Because I see them both as the same thing.
00:07:05You've got to go.
00:07:06You've got, you know, you already know.
00:07:08I think you've got to go Big Phil.
00:07:10Which song?
00:07:11Big Phil.
00:07:12I think in the air tonight.
00:07:15Yeah.
00:07:15I'm both my fighting music and my love making music.
00:07:181.6?
00:07:191.6 speed?
00:07:20Yeah.
00:07:20Yeah.
00:07:211.6 speed, depending on, depending on the opponent, both in the ring.
00:07:25Okay, so is it faster, is it faster for dating or faster for fighting?
00:07:29That's a great question.
00:07:30That's a great question.
00:07:32I think, no, I think, I think you probably want to slow it, slow it down a little bit
00:07:35for the, for the dating.
00:07:371.4.
00:07:37Is that to make it feel like you've lasted longer?
00:07:39Yes.
00:07:39Right.
00:07:40I need that.
00:07:40We were talking about AI in writing yesterday.
00:07:44One of the Commonwealth short story prizes appears to have been awarded to an obviously
00:07:49AI generated story.
00:07:50This is a relatively prestigious prize.
00:07:53The prize winning stories all appeared in Granta magazine and the editor's response was basically
00:07:58a shrug.
00:07:59When asked whether it was AI generated, AI concluded that it was almost certainly not
00:08:04produced unaided by a human and a computer scientist claimed that the empty metaphors that
00:08:11often plague the prize winning story and that plague all AI writing as well, they come from
00:08:15human written fan fiction.
00:08:17So this is the source of a lot of the very strange, very clunky analogies that you see.
00:08:26So, uh, for instance, the rare phrase, the patience of a reptile, which appears in this
00:08:32allegedly AI generated story also occurs in a fan fiction based on the Japanese anime and
00:08:38manga Naruto.
00:08:39There's no way to be sure that the LLM sucked it up, spat it back out, but it's worth remembering
00:08:43that a meaningful amount of the text inside of these machines was written by people who
00:08:47were playing pretend with anime characters.
00:08:49So the reason being, if you were to take the total amount of time played, uh, people playing
00:08:55football globally, and you were to learn how to play football as a robot or an AI system
00:09:00by watching everybody on the planet play football, there are far more people that are bad at football
00:09:06than good at football.
00:09:07Therefore, you will learn to be quite bad at football.
00:09:11And this is the same thing with writing.
00:09:14If you think about how few books that are written get published, how little writing is made for
00:09:20a book and how many books that are written are actually good and go on to sell anything.
00:09:25I don't think that there's that much of a waiting in terms of the LLM that James Clear's Atomic
00:09:31Habits or Moby Dick is worth 10 million times that of an anime and manga blog.
00:09:38However, by sheer numbers, the amount of bad writing outnumbers the amount of good writing.
00:09:46So there's a sentence from that story, but a belly sound as if the earth swallows a shout
00:09:53and holds it there. Pretty jarring. It's not really what you find in good writing.
00:09:57Don't worry, this might have been potentially drawn from a fan fiction webpage, The Fall
00:10:01of a Phoenix, where the original sentence was, he swallows a shout of pain, breathing heavily,
00:10:06his whole body trembling. Another sentence, his eyes narrowed against the glare outside and
00:10:11the darker glare inside him. Eyes narrowed against the glare outside sounds like unnecessarily
00:10:16vain and ominous in a way that's unnecessary. The reason could be that it was drawn from a random
00:10:22horror blog, the original sentence being, his eyes narrowed against the glare of the halogen strip
00:10:26lights. And speaking of the darker glare, whilst it is pretty common, it appears in another fan
00:10:31fiction story. So basically, you can't work out what's inside of an LLM's brain, which is probably
00:10:37for the best, but it's entirely possible that when you prompt it to write fiction, it's not scouring
00:10:44through the greatest works ever put together. It's looking at random fan fiction manga and anime
00:10:52websites written by somebody at 2am who really shouldn't have been doing it.
00:10:55Well, what makes sense there, and again, snapshot in time, six months, 12 months from now,
00:11:00this may be completely different. But what's interesting is, on a coding side of things,
00:11:05it's currently way more capable than the writing side. And I wonder if that's because code itself,
00:11:13there's a lot, it's a lot easier to come to an objective conclusion. So thing did compile,
00:11:19thing didn't compile, or thing did work, thing didn't work, button appeared, button didn't appear.
00:11:25Whereas with writing, it's so much more around text, it's so much more subjective. So it's harder to
00:11:33almost give the feedback loop of success or failure. But it's interesting that you wouldn't,
00:11:38that argument there, that you would just have the widest data set possible for writing versus
00:11:44having an LLM that's trained a lot more. But what would be interesting, in theory, that's quite easy
00:11:49to do. So has anybody done that? Probably. But it's still, even when I've given it great writing,
00:11:58it can't, it can't, for whatever reason, repeat it. Maybe it's not going to work enough.
00:12:02The physics that it's built on top of, it's not just, here is good writing. It has to understand
00:12:07what each word inside of that writing means. And the way that it understands what the word inside
00:12:11of the writing is, is based on the bigger corpus that it has outside of it. So it's a little bit
00:12:15like saying, I've got Usain Bolt, but he's running into a 35 mile an hour headwind.
00:12:20Regardless of how great the talent is that you're trying to push forward,
00:12:23I think that you're always going to be working against this. Now, it's got to be a relatively
00:12:27complex, but simple, sorry, like arduous, but simple solution to be like,
00:12:33just weight it toward great pieces of work.
00:12:35It's not arduous, Chris. It's simple.
00:12:42Said like a true Roman senator.
00:12:46Question.
00:12:46Question.
00:12:48What man could get the most number of women on the planet to turn up at his house if he gave
00:12:52them the invite?
00:12:53That's, um, philosophers have pondered this question for hundreds, if not thousands of years,
00:12:58Christopher. So the, the real philosophical insight that's plagued the industry is which
00:13:06man alive could post his address right now and have the largest line.
00:13:12Who do you, who do you go for?
00:13:18You need international appeal.
00:13:20Yeah.
00:13:22You probably need to skew a little bit older.
00:13:26Bigger TAM.
00:13:27Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You got to, especially with a declining population.
00:13:30Yeah. Aging population.
00:13:32Yeah.
00:13:32Aging population means that I think anyone under age 35 is probably going to struggle. Anyone
00:13:39under age 30 is really going to struggle. I don't think that you're going to want as
00:13:42a mid fifties, sixties year old woman. I don't know whether you probably do want to be ravaged
00:13:47by that, but I don't think you're going to go. The likelihood of you upping sticks and getting
00:13:51on the bus, getting on the 59 bus to go to wherever this person's address is. So my, my call for
00:13:57this, I think it's between Brad Pitt, Leonardo DiCaprio. I'm trying to think about who the
00:14:08pop star or rock star would be that would be up there. I bet somebody like a Drake would
00:14:13probably be able to do some damage. I don't think so.
00:14:17He's done his damage.
00:14:18He has done a lot of damage, but I think I would, I would put my money. I would say I would put my
00:14:22money on Brad Pitt. I think it's very hard to fight back against Brad Pitt and DiCaprio are very
00:14:27much the Intel or Microsoft in this moment in the, I think 10 years ago, I think you're correct,
00:14:34but I think you're going to be looking at a little bit more blue chip. I think David Beckham's
00:14:38probably the Apple stock here been around for a while, but I think Beckham still outperforms Pitt.
00:14:43Um, and DiCaprio because I think Beckham's actually more global because we've got to,
00:14:48you've got to be looking at, you've got to be looking at Africa. You've got to be looking
00:14:51at Southeast Asia.
00:14:52I'm always looking at Africa. Why, what, what was the last thing that David Beckham did that
00:14:55was globally recognized?
00:14:57If you turned on the world cup recently, he's on every single advert, my friend.
00:15:01I don't think that that is enough, right? I don't think.
00:15:05But I also think D Beck's, um, D seven still has quite a clean, beautiful image. Whereas a Brad Pitt
00:15:12doesn't no, definitely not. Um, I think less so as he's got older and DiCaprio seems to have
00:15:19DiCaprio's really tanked his own stock prices.
00:15:21Intel. This is what I'm saying.
00:15:22Right. I understand. I understand, but I don't think, I don't think that you're right
00:15:28about David Beckham. I don't think that you're going to get, I don't think he's going to reach out
00:15:31into the Middle East in the way that Brad Pitt would. I think that you get,
00:15:36I think David Beckham's going to nail it in like East Asia. I think he's going to absolutely crush it.
00:15:41Cause they're kind of sports crazy over there. I don't think.
00:15:44You're joking me with the Saudi league and the Qatar world cup. I think, I think D Beck's is,
00:15:48is well known out there. And the English accent still goes a long way, my friend.
00:15:51That's, I just don't think he's done anything relevant for a long time.
00:15:54Okay. We can agree to disagree. I do think.
00:15:57Who's an outside favorite?
00:15:58I think Styles is very much the Nvidia of our moment. Yes.
00:16:01It may fall. The market may collapse, but he is very much leading the charge.
00:16:08Timothee Chalamet is like ChatGPT or open AI. He's currently, he's currently private because he's
00:16:13in a committed long-term relationship.
00:16:14Well, DBEX is as well. It's not, it's not necessarily about private or public stock here.
00:16:18Oh, so David Beckham was close at the SpaceX pre IPO.
00:16:21Yes. Yes.
00:16:23Very established for quite a long time. A lot of investment from variety of countries.
00:16:27People really cared about his success. And then finally he's been able to cash out
00:16:30if he manages to break up with Victoria. Fascinating philosophical question.
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00:17:43Dopamine websites are becoming a new trend in South Korea. These services let users endlessly browse food delivery menus,
00:17:49read reviews, fill shopping carts, and even track a courier.
00:17:52The only catch? You can't actually place an order.
00:17:56There are also virtual smoke breaks where users join anonymous chat rooms and socialize with strangers,
00:18:01recreating the feeling of taking a break without smoking a single cigarette.
00:18:04The idea is simple. Get the familiar dopamine hit without spending money, smoking, or giving in to other impulsive habits.
00:18:10I saw that. And I think the argument they, a big argument you'll see online is this behavior is happening in Asia.
00:18:18Therefore it's going to downstream happen in the West. And I think it's a little bit of a coin toss.
00:18:24Sometimes Asia is ahead of us, but sometimes it's just such a different culture.
00:18:29So I think it was, I forgot which Facebook product manager was talking about how they'd release a new feature
00:18:37and they'd test it off in the Philippines. And there'd be this crazy reaction. And they go,
00:18:42we have to launch this new feature immediately. And the amount of times they'll then test it on
00:18:47the West or anywhere else in the world, and it wouldn't work. So they actually banned doing tests
00:18:53or stopped doing tests for a lot of features in the Philippines, because their phone usage is so
00:18:58different to ours. They spend so much more time on their phones than any other part of the world.
00:19:03So it's just- Why is that?
00:19:04Where is it like a human thing that these people are just ahead versus where is it just a cultural
00:19:09thing? Have you ever, have you ever come across Montaigne's lists?
00:19:13No.
00:19:14Do you know who Montaigne is?
00:19:15The philosopher?
00:19:16Yeah. So French philosopher would be fascinating to hear his perspectives on the old Q debate,
00:19:23but Montaigne used to have lists that he would keep of what different cultures thought were acceptable
00:19:30throughout history, just so he could remind himself that this whole thing is largely made up. It's
00:19:35largely social contagion. So some of my favorite from Montaigne's lists. So one, where it's normal to
00:19:44grow out your hair on the right side of your body, but shave everything on the left. Where white teeth
00:19:50is deemed as unattractive, so they purposely get their teeth blacker and blacker and blacker.
00:19:55Where at a certain age, you're supposed to kill your own father. When you and your father hit a
00:20:00certain age, you say goodbye. Another one on Montaigne's lists are when at a funeral, you're supposed to
00:20:09chop up the dead, grind them to a pulp, pour it into wine, and then drink them on the day of the funeral.
00:20:17And the final one, one for you actually, Christopher, because I'm sure you've attended many events like
00:20:21this, which is certain cultures for the weddings, the success of a wedding was judged by how many
00:20:30of the groom's friends could sleep with the bride, which I know is actually quite common in the northeast
00:20:34of England. But that's only if they're family. So Montaigne kept these lists to himself, like
00:20:39more and more and more and more examples like that, just to hold a mirror up to himself and the times
00:20:45that he's in. So he's collecting weird cultures, cultures that we would find strange and that their
00:20:51norms are different to ours in an attempt to try and highlight, hey, whatever it is that you think
00:20:56is normal is just consensus because of where you are. And if you were to be somewhere else,
00:21:00your consensus would be totally different. Yes. Do you want,
00:21:02I tell you what, do you want a list of, I was thinking, okay, let's say Montaigne came back
00:21:06today. I was writing this chapter recently. So let's say Montaigne came back today and was like,
00:21:13well, what's normal today? So normal consumes 17 teaspoons of sugar per day.
00:21:21Normal has $104,755 in debt. Normal is 30 pounds overweight, ozempic pending.
00:21:30Normal averages less than 4,000 steps per day. Normal spends 90,000 hours of their life at work disengaged.
00:21:38Normal stays indoors for 22.3 hours per day. Normal spends more time on the toilet than exercising.
00:21:46Normal hasn't finished a book in the last 12 months. Normal experiences under 10 minutes per day in
00:21:52silence. Normal will spend 20 years of their life watching TV or scrolling social media.
00:21:57Under 10 minutes a day in silence. And more time on the toilet than exercising.
00:22:07Averages. But then there's always a criticism around averages that you end up netting it out.
00:22:12But when you begin to look at, oh, this is just what's accepted today. And maybe tomorrow
00:22:17weddings will be back that you like to attend.
00:22:19In the 1830s in Massachusetts, beards were so uncommon and strange that a man named Joseph Parker
00:22:25was mocked and shunned for wearing one. Assailants tried to forcibly shave him,
00:22:29but he fought them off with a knife and was in prison for assault. He refused to pay his fine or
00:22:34court fees, so he remained in prison for over a year. And this at least gave him the excuse to create an
00:22:39all-time classic tombstone. The right to a full beard is honored by the grave of a man who was attacked and
00:22:49jailed due to his facial hair. Talk about norms, mate.
00:22:52That's a great beard. One of the things that everybody kind of has discussed in the marketing
00:23:03space for ages is that live streaming will become normal in the West because it's normal in the East.
00:23:09But I'm yet to see, like live shopping, where people sit there for hours and hours per day,
00:23:15I'm yet to see that fully take off.
00:23:16Well, it depends what you mean. Because live streaming, Kik, Twitch, obviously that's streaming.
00:23:22Live streaming, yes. But actual live shopping, sorry.
00:23:24Live shopping, different. IRL streaming feels, I don't know whether they've got that in-
00:23:31I bet they don't have that in Asia. You know, the IRL stuff where people are walking about,
00:23:37sometimes causing nuisance and doing predator stings. I imagine that they don't because
00:23:44a good bit of Asia feels like it's got honor culture, where you don't want to disrupt.
00:23:48I mean, you've seen the Japanese subways, the Japanese tube, and I've been on the phone to
00:23:54a friend who lives in Japan, and he'll warn me while he's on the side of the
00:23:59subway waiting at the terminal. And then he'll tell me, "Look, I'm just about to get on." And he won't
00:24:05say anything. He won't respond to me on the phone. He won't even whisper. So I'll be talking to him
00:24:10for three minutes without him being able to respond. And then he'll get off and he'll talk
00:24:15back to me. Like that's how, and he's not native, Irish, and that's how much reverence people have,
00:24:24just complete silence. So they're playing your drill rap on the back of the bus. Not that,
00:24:30not even whispering, not even talking to each other.
00:24:31-Wow. -Isn't that crazy? Do you know that?
00:24:34-Wow. I didn't know that. It's interesting how much of who you think you are is just postcode.
00:24:40-Oh, so much of it's ecology, right? I mean, and that's the reason why changing your environment
00:24:46has such a big impact on your life. Both me and you changed gyms over the last six months,
00:24:53and that made a massive impact. Just a different routine didn't change me as a person, but it changed
00:25:00the way that my day was shaped. Like, "Oh, actually my routine is largely built around some of the other
00:25:04things that I already do. And if I change where I go and do them, that alters having the office,
00:25:09having the office in the studio, that's made a massive difference as well." So what do you think,
00:25:12from stuff that's happened in Asia that has prophetically come across to America?
00:25:19-Ooh. -Are the boo-boos Asian? They look like they are.
00:25:27-What's a li-boo-boo? -It's these little stuffed animals.
00:25:30It was the Dubai chocolate at the stuffed animal world, and people were queuing up for ages to get a
00:25:35key ring and collect those. -It's funny how being in the West, we talk about Asia the same way.
00:25:45I always find it absurd when somebody talks about Europe. Obviously Brexit means Brexit,
00:25:48so we're no longer in Europe. But the idea that Asia is this place, or Africa is this place.
00:25:56-Despite it being absolutely massive. -Yes.
00:25:57-I'm going to Europe. What the fuck does that mean? But because we're so far away,
00:26:02we don't think of Asia as being anything different than just one big hegemon.
00:26:07-And there seems to be a recurring mimetic trend throughout geography, which is,
00:26:10you think two places, because they're next door neighbour, are very similar to one another,
00:26:14or get home with one another. But historically, it is the opposite. -They tended not to.
00:26:18-I laugh whenever I interact with the French that we are- -23 miles away.
00:26:24-So different. So fundamentally different. It's actually hard to find a culture
00:26:32as different to Britain in Europe, I would say, than the French. And we're next door neighbours.
00:26:38-Yeah, we are. But I mean, speaking as somebody that's dressed as an ex-Italian,
00:26:44essentially, you would know. You would know. You would understand.
00:26:50Yeah, I don't know about the Asian thing. I definitely know that there's a lot of stuff
00:26:54that goes on over there that doesn't happen over here. You can buy used period pants in vending
00:26:59machines. I saw Craig Jones do this on a vlog. Some ladies had menstruated through our pants,
00:27:05and then you can buy them in a little, it comes in a little pokeball like that. And it's in a
00:27:10specially-sealed bag inside of a pokeball. -I don't think that's taking off in the West.
00:27:16Anytime soon. -Yeah, there are certain areas that are resisting globalisation.
00:27:22It's kind of impressive. California's gay certification. California is pressuring
00:27:27public utilities to award $633 million in special contracts to LGBT-owned firms. To qualify,
00:27:35residents must go through the state's official gay certification program and face up to a year in jail
00:27:41if they're not gay enough. By 2022, the California Public Utilities Commission established a goal for
00:27:46utility companies with annual revenues exceeding $25 million to buy things from state-certified LGBT
00:27:53businesses. 0.5% of procurement in 2021, 1% in 23, 1.5% in 24, and beyond. If large CPUC-regulated utilities
00:28:02meet these goals in 2024, they would have sent $633 million to LGBT-owned firms. The scheme raises an obvious
00:28:11question: How does a business qualify as officially gay? Paperwork. Supplier Clearinghouse, a group that
00:28:18certifies firms for the CPUC program features a list of qualifications linked on its website. Applicants
00:28:24can secure certification by providing a letter from an LGBT organisation attesting to their sexual
00:28:30preferences, proof that a newspaper identified them as LGBT, or three letters from personal contacts
00:28:39written on company letterhead attesting to their homosexual orientation. Corporate officials who falsely
00:28:45represent their business as gay face up to a year in county jail. Supplier Clearinghouse also accepts
00:28:50gay certification letters from the National LGBTQ+ and Allied Chamber of Commerce. The chamber has its
00:28:56own list of accepted documents, including human resources complaints or police records claiming LGBT
00:29:01discrimination. As it states on its website, "Certification is a journey, not a destination."
00:29:07Wow. Think you'd be able to pull off getting California's gay certification to receive $633 million?
00:29:12So what percentage do you need? To be gay? Yes.
00:29:16You need to be gay. It's not a percent. Oh, so it's not a recruitment percentage.
00:29:21No. Oh, okay. No. So you have to hit, if you have a certain level that you get the funding.
00:29:27Yep, yep, exactly. But you also need to be gay to unlock it. So if you're not gay, you don't get it.
00:29:32And if you're not big enough, you don't get it. But if you're big enough, they need to be finding
00:29:36sufficiently diverse. So these companies actually, one of the best ways to do this would be to hire,
00:29:42this is an incentive, to hire C-suite executives that are gay.
00:29:45Damn.
00:29:46It would unlock an awful lot of CPUC funding in California.
00:29:49Damn.
00:29:50And you face it, you're in county jail.
00:29:53That's real founder mode right there. Like, if you're willing to...
00:29:56Take it up the ass.
00:29:57Yeah.
00:29:58If you're going to power bottom your way to the top.
00:30:01Yeah.
00:30:04You can either get fucked by investors or get fucked by...
00:30:07Someone else.
00:30:08Craig.
00:30:08Well, look, it's going to, it's, it's, it's, I don't know, man. The, the whole...
00:30:13Is that real? Is that all real?
00:30:14That's real.
00:30:14Wow.
00:30:15That's literally, that's a brand... I'm not going to lie to you.
00:30:17I know, I know.
00:30:18Why would I lie to you? Where do I get this from? Cityjournal.com. There it is.
00:30:20Inside California's gay certification program, the state is pressuring utilities to award
00:30:24633 million in contracts to LGBT businesses.
00:30:27Interesting.
00:30:29The tip of the spear for LGBT diversity is energy and utilities.
00:30:37Contracts for state-certified gay-owned businesses.
00:30:41You could arbitrage the hell out of this.
00:30:43You know, people say, how much would it, how much would you have to pay to be gay?
00:30:46If the number is less than 633 million dollars, your quid's in.
00:30:50Damn.
00:30:52What else? What else you got? You got some stuff? Do you bring anything from home?
00:30:55Yeah, go on. Do I have some stuff?
00:30:57Do I have some stuff, as always?
00:31:01Oh, my bag of cash is getting in the way.
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00:32:02The story of a Spanish chicken farmer called Juan Poyol. So, it's 1941, start of World War I,
00:32:11and he's essentially a failure his entire life. So, he's been a chicken farmer, a manager of a one-star
00:32:17hotel before bankruptcy. And he's after a new job with a tremendous CV. So, he's walking along the
00:32:25streets of Madrid, takes a right, goes into the British embassy and says, "I want a job at MI5 to
00:32:33help out and spy on the Nazis." And MI5 or the embassy sort of say, "Okay, how about you put that in
00:32:44writing and we'll come back to you?" Which is the British way of saying, "Get the fuck out." So, he
00:32:51leaves the building, comes back, walks across, goes into the embassy, says, "I want a job of MI5."
00:32:58They ask him to leave, tries again. He just walks across the street and turns around.
00:33:03No, these are multiple future events. So, he keeps coming back.
00:33:07Fourth time, he's walking along and he decides, he walks up the steps,
00:33:13but this time he goes into the German embassy and he goes, "I hate the Brits. I want a job for the Nazis
00:33:20to spy on Britain." And the Nazis are eyeing him up and he talks about his love for the Führer,
00:33:26the love for the Third Reich and how much he hates his new inspired hatred for Great Britain.
00:33:32And the Nazis end up training him up, giving him little tasks, and he keeps proving himself,
00:33:38learns how invisible ink works, ends up recruiting multiple agents inside of Great Britain. So,
00:33:46he builds his way up and then he walks back street of Madrid, goes to the British embassy and says,
00:33:54"I now want a job at MI5 because I'm one of the most valuable spies for the Nazis." So, he got rejected,
00:34:01rejected, rejected, rejected, and was like, "Okay, I'll take matters into my own hands." So, he then becomes
00:34:07the most valuable spy for Britain during World War II. He builds up a network of 27 sub-agents inside of
00:34:16Britain that the Nazis believe are true, but it's all his own imagination. All these different agents that he
00:34:23would create stories from that they were doing. So much so, when he arrived, the MI5 called him Garbo,
00:34:31because Garbo at the time was the most famous actress in the world.
00:34:34: Greta Garbo.
00:34:36: Yes. So, named after for his acting skills. So, Juan Poyol, the Spanish chicken farmer,
00:34:43the most important moment in World War II was D-Day. So, as D-Day was happening, Juan gave so much fake
00:34:52information. He convinced them that D-Day was going to happen in Calais. So, Hitler and Himmler were
00:34:58getting these reports from Juan. They thought the war was going to happen in Calais. So, they sent
00:35:04some of their most important armies to Calais. Then the D-Day happens, and Juan was so convincing,
00:35:13even with these fake reports, that Hitler gave him the Iron Cross. So, he's the only agent to get both an
00:35:21Iron Cross from Hitler, and an MBE from the King. : No way.
00:35:25: Yeah. Do you know what's tragic though? So, they say that when it comes to D-Day, the most
00:35:30important day of World War II, the three most important people were Eisenhower, who looked after
00:35:35the US. I think Montgomery, who looked after the Great Britain, and Juan Poyol, the Spanish chicken
00:35:41farmer. Those are the three most important people in D-Day, in terms of the impact. But this guy who gets these
00:35:47double awards ends up dying in 1949, Mozambique, to malaria. And in the 1980s, three of the agents
00:35:59that worked with him in MI5 are sat at a bar. So, they're all in their late 80s now, and they're
00:36:05talking about the war. They're in this former little intelligence pub, and they're chatting
00:36:10about the war, and they're having a few drinks. And they have this kind of confused look on their faces,
00:36:17this old guy is walking towards them. And they get more and more confused with their face.
00:36:23And then this 80-year-old man, who's a MI5 spy, breaks down in tears, crying. And they go,
00:36:31"It can't be. You're supposed to be dead."
00:36:34So, his final last act was to fake his own death in 1949. And he lived in a bookstore in Venezuela.
00:36:44So, the Nazis would never know where he was.
00:36:50That's insane.
00:36:51Yeah.
00:36:52Spanish chicken farm.
00:36:53Was he really worried about Nazi retribution in 1949?
00:36:56Yes.
00:36:56Were the Nazis still going around and chasing people in the 50s?
00:36:59Ironically, even though he's in Venezuela, there was a lot of Nazis in South America.
00:37:03Yeah, but if he'd not gone to fucking Venezuela, he supposedly caught malaria in Africa.
00:37:07There's still a lot of-
00:37:08Where's Mozambique?
00:37:09Mozambique is, I think, West Africa.
00:37:11Right, okay.
00:37:12You should have stayed there.
00:37:12But in 1949 or even onwards, there was-
00:37:15First off, we're viewing history through hindsight.
00:37:18At the time, there was still millions of Germans that served for the Nazis that were still alive.
00:37:22Yeah, there was lots of Nazis afterwards.
00:37:24And they would have wanted retribution for people that had-
00:37:28I guess I don't know what-
00:37:29The most impactful man during D-Day who was a double agent that gave them all this false information.
00:37:33If there's one person they're going to try and kill.
00:37:35Yeah, that's true.
00:37:36I guess I don't know what happened in Germany after they lost.
00:37:40I don't know how quickly everybody capitulated.
00:37:43Well, there was this-
00:37:44I was listening to Finn versus history and they was talking about how-
00:37:47Friend of the show.
00:37:48In, uh, when after the Nazis commit the Holocaust,
00:37:51I think they were banned for the World Cup or from like international games for four years.
00:37:55But when Liverpool had the incident in Juventus where loads of fans died,
00:38:00they were banned for six years.
00:38:01And it's like, it's not-
00:38:02It doesn't scale.
00:38:03It's quite even out.
00:38:04It doesn't scale accordingly.
00:38:05Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:38:06No, that's, uh, I mean, unbelievable amount of agency.
00:38:10I suppose to be a guy that wants a job so badly that you take the opposite job to get the first
00:38:17job.
00:38:17It's just as well that he really did want to work for MI5.
00:38:20Because if he didn't, he would have just been a great asset for the Nazis.
00:38:22But it's having that, that level of theory of mind of, okay, I've been rejected from something.
00:38:29What does this person want that would make me completely invaluable?
00:38:33Because I think there's this kind of myth that, oh, if you've been rejected, just keep going.
00:38:37And they're idiots versus can you get inside of their head and think how they think?
00:38:41Yeah, yeah.
00:38:42Yeah.
00:38:43I think, um, is it time to push or is it time to pivot?
00:38:48It's kind of the age old question, but he did both, right?
00:38:51He pivoted into a new one.
00:38:52All right.
00:38:52So that's your story time.
00:38:53This is a new segment, a new segment on our episode story time.
00:38:56My story time.
00:38:58Shavash Karapetian.
00:38:59Are you familiar with Shavash Karapetian?
00:39:01No.
00:39:02Okay.
00:39:02So, uh, 1976 in, uh, Yerevan and there's a trolley bus carrying around about 90 passengers.
00:39:10We don't know what happened.
00:39:11Uh, some people say that the driver of the bus had a heart attack.
00:39:16Some people say that he was having an altercation with a passenger on board.
00:39:20Whatever happened, it crashed into a reservoir, Yerevan.
00:39:24The bus sank roughly 10 meters to 30 feet to the bottom, freezing murky water.
00:39:30There's a 23 year old man who's training with his brother nearby, Shavash Karapetian.
00:39:35And, uh, without giving it much thought, jumps into the water and ordered his brother to help
00:39:39him from the shore.
00:39:40He said it was scary at first.
00:39:42It was so loud as if a bomb went off.
00:39:44I almost drowned several times.
00:39:46I could imagine the agony of those 92 people and I knew how they would die.
00:39:52The thing was, Karapetian wasn't an ordinary bystander.
00:39:55He was a 17 time world champion and 11 time world record holder in fin swimming.
00:40:03He was one of the best underwater swimmers on earth.
00:40:06Immediately dives into the water to help.
00:40:08Visibility is basically zero because the reservoir is full of mud and sewage and debris as well.
00:40:12Obviously the bus has gone in, so it's kicked up all of this silt.
00:40:15It's basically impossible to see.
00:40:16So he swims down into the dark, locates the bus.
00:40:19He called it a traveling coffin for all of these 92 people.
00:40:23He kicks the rear window in underwater to get inside.
00:40:27Dives down.
00:40:27Dive after dive.
00:40:28Holds his breath.
00:40:29Finds a trap passenger.
00:40:30Drags them back to the surface.
00:40:31Hands them to the rescuers and his brother in a rowboat.
00:40:35Goes straight back down again.
00:40:37Reportedly made dozens of dives of around about 20 minutes.
00:40:40And physically pulled out about 37 people.
00:40:4420 of them survived.
00:40:45During one dive, he accidentally grabbed a leather seat cushion instead of a passenger
00:40:50because his visibility was so poor.
00:40:51It would be one of these old school buses that would have had movable cushions.
00:40:55And he grabbed this leather cushion and brought it up thinking it was maybe a small human.
00:40:59He later said that this one decision haunted him for years
00:41:01because he believed someone may have died while he carried up the cushion instead.
00:41:06Karapetian was hospitalized along with the victims of the accident
00:41:10because he'd lacerated all of his legs, all of his body
00:41:15from going through the broken glass, from breaking the glass himself.
00:41:18Septic fever, double-sided pneumonia and nervous prostration
00:41:21had doctors fighting for his life for over a month.
00:41:24When he was finally discharged, Shavas went back to practice
00:41:28but swimming underwater echoed painfully in his lungs.
00:41:31But he wouldn't give up without having one final medal.
00:41:34So during the next championship that he swam in a haze, still wasn't in any way back to full capacity.
00:41:40His brother Camo ran along the side of the pool, ready to jump in in case he suddenly lost consciousness.
00:41:46But he came in first and set another world record without even realizing that he'd done it at the time.
00:41:51He was so delirious.
00:41:53But the rescue that he'd done of the bus had destroyed his athletic career.
00:41:56Broken glass shredded his legs.
00:41:58Polluted water had caused severe pneumonia and sepsis he couldn't recover from.
00:42:02And he spent all of those weeks plus then months critically ill and then recovering.
00:42:06Soviet authorities initially downplayed the story, so it remained relatively unknown for years.
00:42:10And today the rescue is considered one of the greatest acts of civilian heroism ever recorded.
00:42:15Jesus Christ.
00:42:18That's him.
00:42:18Thick Russian.
00:42:19Karapanian.
00:42:20Yeah, yeah.
00:42:21Like a serious Russian guy.
00:42:23That's him there and just a pair of pants and everybody else is trying to pull it up.
00:42:26Wow.
00:42:29Isn't that insane?
00:42:30Wow.
00:42:33There's an award.
00:42:34Jared, ask a bold friend.
00:42:37What's the name of the award that's given to people who risk their lives for strangers?
00:42:42The award you're likely thinking of is the Carnegie Medal.
00:42:46It's given to civilians who risk their lives to save or attempt to save strangers.
00:42:50Is there anything interesting about the demographics of the people who've been given that award?
00:42:55There are some patterns worth noting.
00:42:57The Carnegie Hero Fund, which awards the medal, has found that recipients come from all walks of life.
00:43:02That's not interesting.
00:43:04Age, gender, and background vary widely.
00:43:05That's not interesting.
00:43:06Historically, men have been the majority of recipients, but women have also been recognized.
00:43:10How many men, how many men won?
00:43:12The Carnegie Hero Fund has awarded thousands of people since its inception in 1904.
00:43:17So fucking woke.
00:43:17Historically, the majority have been men.
00:43:20What's the percentage of men that have won the Carnegie Award?
00:43:25The Carnegie Hero Fund reports that historically, about 90% of recipients have been men.
00:43:32All right, shut up.
00:43:37Whatever happened in 2020 continues to carry over now.
00:43:40Do you know what I mean?
00:43:41Like, California thinks that the most important thing to do with its utilities is not give people
00:43:45cheap and reliable energy, but to make sure that the diversity of the sexuality of the people who
00:43:50own the companies is important.
00:43:52And you, fucking 5.5, need to have a chat with someone about you.
00:43:56Anyway, that Carapetion, I love that story.
00:43:59I think it's fucking awesome.
00:44:01And the kind of kicker is the fact that you know that he made such a personal sacrifice,
00:44:07but then also was ravaged by the fact that he picked up a fucking cushion.
00:44:10Having gone down 37 times, and one time he made a mistake in pitch blackness when he couldn't see.
00:44:17What's the likelihood that the guy that's running on the side of the road with his brother,
00:44:22like he's got his pants on, he's got the, he's got the, he's the number one fin swimmer,
00:44:28deep sea swimmer in the world, 17 times, 11 world records.
00:44:34Tragic.
00:44:35Yeah.
00:44:35Tragic.
00:44:36Yeah.
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00:45:36Yeah, it's interesting how often that is the case where you'll have these acts of great
00:45:42heroism that don't have 100% success right, and then the individual spends so much time looping on that.
00:45:50Yeah, that's survivor guilt, I suppose, right?
00:45:53I've known some people who've done some incredible things like in the police or firework,
00:45:57for example, and it's the same thing. They don't ruminate on the heroism, it's the...
00:46:03The mistakes that they made.
00:46:04Yeah.
00:46:05Yeah, the people they could have saved. I wonder what that's... I guess that
00:46:09adaptively, it's trying to get you to focus on this is something pro-social that you could have
00:46:17done if you'd been more prepared, more skillful. Therefore, in future, you need to adapt your
00:46:29approach so that this doesn't happen again. Maybe that's the reason for survivor guilt. Actually,
00:46:34Jared, just type it in. ChatGPT, what is the reason? What is the adaptive reason for survivor guilt?
00:46:42Adaptive explanation for survivor guilt. The only thing that I can think of is that it's supposed
00:46:47to try and guide your future behavior so that... Well, I mean, a fucking Bluetooth came up as a
00:46:53thousand-year-old Norse god or something like that, so the fuck knows if we're going to find out.
00:46:59What is the adaptive explanation? From an evolutionary or adaptive perspective,
00:47:02survivor guilt can be understood as a byproduct of mechanisms to help humans maintain social bonds,
00:47:06cooperation, and group cohesion. Okay, so my hypothesis is looking good so far.
00:47:09Basic idea is that in ancestral environments, humans survive and reproduce largely through
00:47:12belonging to a group. One person benefited while others suffered. There are often social consequences,
00:47:16so the inverse of that. Okay. Maintaining group cohesion. If you survive a dangerous event while
00:47:20close allies did not. Feeling distress rather than indifference signals... Oh, that's cool.
00:47:26So, because if something bad happens and you were one of the few that survived, if you show that you feel
00:47:33distress as opposed to indifference, it reinforces to everybody else that you weren't selfish and an
00:47:39asshole, that you actually regret the fact that they died and that you didn't. I am still a part of the
00:47:45group. I didn't take it all for myself. I didn't just swim out the back of the bus myself. I really
00:47:48did try. Reciprocal altruism and fairness mechanisms. They've got strong intuitions. When we
00:47:54receive an unexpected benefit relative to others, even when we did nothing wrong, our minds may interpret
00:47:58the situation as a violation of fairness expectations. Survivor guilt may arise from the same psychological
00:48:04machinery that makes people pretty uncomfortable receiving disproportionate rewards. Okay. Motivation
00:48:09to help survivors. Yeah. Okay. So, it encourages caring for bereaved families, supporting injured group
00:48:14members. Counterfactual learning. Humans are unusually prone to imagining alternative outcomes. The
00:48:20counterfactual helps us learn from near misses and dangerous situations. Dude, don't fucking test me
00:48:25on evolutionary theory. Okay. Don't test the Hamburglar on evolutionary theory. My intuitions
00:48:30are strong. Costly signal of commitment as well. Grief and function. You can't fake it. That's an
00:48:35interesting one. That's the reason. Why would it be the case that when you're sad or distressed or
00:48:42overwhelmed with negative emotion, that the same thing your eyes do to make sure that your eyes stay
00:48:50lubricated would go into overdrive? Why do we cry? What's the reason for crying? And one of the adaptive
00:48:58explanations for this, which is pretty fascinating, is it's such a costly signal to do because the most
00:49:05important sense you have is your eyes. And if you're prepared to fill them with water to say how much I've
00:49:11been hurt or how much I'm suffering, you're in an unbelievably vulnerable position. You can't fight. You can't see. You can't
00:49:18defend yourself. Tears are coming out and you can't fully operate. This is how much I'm in pain. I'm in
00:49:25so much pain that I'm essentially exposing my neck to you. So how do you then factor in tears of joy?
00:49:32Why do we cry out of joy? I did ask this question. So it could be a spandrel, which is just a crossover
00:49:38between the two, but it could just be the same thing. It could be a very costly signal. Hey,
00:49:43look at how much I love this thing that's happening. I am here, collective effervescence,
00:49:48me and the group. We are one. I experienced this thing with you too. And I do think when it comes to
00:49:54emotions, sadness, peak joy, joyful experiences, beautiful experiences, and sad or dreadful experiences,
00:50:06they kind of have this same part of the pitch of the chord that they play. It's kind of similar.
00:50:13It's like an outside of the body. At least when I experience stuff that's really intense, whether it's
00:50:19good or bad, I always feel it sort of across the top of my shoulders, my traps and like sort of
00:50:24everything feels like it lifts up a little bit. If I'm being delivered bad news by somebody, or if
00:50:28there's something that's really beautiful happening, it always feels like I'm sort of being lifted a bit.
00:50:32So there seems to be similarities, resonance between those two.
00:50:37There's two visuals, Jared, if you could pull them up. There's one of how emotion feels in the body.
00:50:44I don't know if you've seen this one where it's like all the heat map.
00:50:47Yeah. Heat map of emotions.
00:50:49Yeah. There's also the topography of tears, how different types of tears look under a microscope.
00:50:56And they're slightly different.
00:50:57No way.
00:50:58The constitution?
00:50:59Yeah. This artist produced it where...
00:51:01Top left.
00:51:04So here is how emotions at least feel in the body, which kind of makes sense.
00:51:11But is that a map? Mapping emotions? So is that self-report?
00:51:14I think this is more self-report of how it feels.
00:51:17Okay, so anger seems pretty right.
00:51:20So anger is sort of above the upper chest, arms and hands a lot, lower face a lot, and head.
00:51:27And if you start with neutral on the right, so you kind of see, okay, this is neutral.
00:51:30And then you compare that to all the different ones.
00:51:33Surprise is definitely a lot in the head. That's cool.
00:51:36Sadness is kind of in the middle of the chest. Happiness sort of everywhere.
00:51:41Disgust, definitely in the stomach. So disgust and anxiety both in the stomach the most,
00:51:45that would make sense, because disgust is a pathogen rejection.
00:51:50Fear, middle of the chest, I think that seems quite right.
00:51:52Interesting that happiness is basically just tuned down love.
00:51:56Depression is cool. The depression, it says here, it's just sort of a low energy state
00:52:02on your extremities, as opposed to anxiety. And I would agree with that. I think anxiety is a much
00:52:08more active version of depression. Contempt, like existing exclusively in the head is pretty cool.
00:52:15Pride, so the swelling in the chest makes sense. Shame, the cheeks, that's people get embarrassed.
00:52:24And envy, sort of a little bit of head and some heart. That's actually, would you disagree with any of those?
00:52:30I think it feels, it feels accurate as trying to be neutral right now.
00:52:36Could you search topography of tears, please, Jared? This was done by, I think an artist that made this.
00:52:45Uh, go to that video, that Instagram video. Let's just see what this, uh, what this lady's got to say.
00:52:50Third one. Click and open.
00:52:54So that your tears look different underneath the microscope, depending on the emotion that you're
00:52:59experiencing. This project was called the topography of tears by Rosalind Fisher. She's a photographer,
00:53:04and what they did is they looked at tears underneath the microscope, and you will see that depending on
00:53:09what these participants were experiencing, their tears look different. This is tears of laughter versus
00:53:14tears of change, tears of grief versus tears from cutting onions. This is tears when someone is
00:53:20experiencing a moment of catharsis, whereas someone is experiencing a moment of change.
00:53:24I'm a therapist, and I often show this to my clients because I think it gives a really good
00:53:29demonstration that crying is actually really important at times to release certain things from
00:53:33our body. And being able to see that our tears actually look different depending on what we're
00:53:38experiencing. I think really demonstrates that really well. Did you know?
00:53:43Insane.
00:53:44That's cool. I want to know what the... Fuck it. Just ask Jared. Ask ChatGPT from the topography of tears
00:53:54study. What are the differences in the structure of tears, or why are they there? Because I want to
00:54:02know what is inside of the tear that's different. Is it more salt content? Is it... How much shits in tears?
00:54:10I guess maybe you could have... I don't know, is cortisol in the blood that leaks into the tears? But
00:54:18surely, tears are kind of like sperm produced in advance and then released.
00:54:23There are three main categories. Basal tears, constantly produced to lubricate the eyes. Reflex tears,
00:54:28produced in response to irritants like onions and emotional tears. Key biochemical difference,
00:54:33here we go, is that emotional tears contain higher concentrations of certain proteins and hormones,
00:54:37including prolactin, adrenocorticotropic hormone, stress-related hormone, leu-enkephelin,
00:54:47a natural pain-relieving peptide. Differences in minerals such as potassium and manganese. When
00:54:52tear dries on the slide, these dissolved substances crystallize into different patterns.
00:54:57Wow. There isn't a simple one-to-one mapping. Grief always looks like X and joy always looks like Y.
00:55:02The patterns vary considerably, even within the same emotional category. The amount of ratios of
00:55:07protein, salts, hormones, and other biochemical... I didn't realize that you had that much...
00:55:10Obviously, you can cry for different reasons. If I start cutting an onion in front of you,
00:55:14or if you're in pain, or if you're feeling something, or if you're just lubricating your eyes.
00:55:18And testosterone tears as well. The higher T that you have, the completely different...
00:55:23That's Greg Levecchia.
00:55:24Yeah.
00:55:25Greg Levecchia's tears from bloom are actually a protein shake.
00:55:28Yeah.
00:55:30For the people that don't know, Greg Levecchia has got 2000 nanograms
00:55:33per deciliter of testosterone.
00:55:37Yeah, Greg's tears are exposed. That's actually in this bag. It's not money, it's just
00:55:41Greg's next testosterone oil.
00:55:43Yeah, you pull up Greg's tears, they're just fucking draining.
00:55:45Yeah, exactly. They've got vascular tears.
00:55:49Yeah.
00:55:50Yeah.
00:55:53The emotions thing's been interesting, trying to navigate this over the last 18 months or so.
00:55:59I still think, kind of interested in what the conversation around men showing emotions is.
00:56:05Obviously, I've talked about it a lot, like everyone's talked about it a lot.
00:56:08But one of the interesting wrinkles that I learned about was, I don't think that men
00:56:14are particularly good at receiving other men's emotions.
00:56:18That we often talk about guys need to open up more, look at all of the people that are taking
00:56:21their own lives, whatever it is, however many men per minute or men per day are doing this.
00:56:26You need to open up. But a lot of the time, if a guy does that on the internet,
00:56:31it's not just women that are unaccommodating to a guy that's maybe crying or feeling bad or seeming a
00:56:39little weak. Guys, I would guess on average, are actually more discarding. Men are less accommodating
00:56:48of other men's sad emotions than women are. And a lot of the time, these would be the same men
00:56:53that would say something to the effect of, "Wow, men's mental health's in a state. Nobody really cares
00:56:58that much." You go, "Okay, so which one is it?" Because if you're not prepared to hold your boy
00:57:03like while he's going through a hard time, you don't also really get to say,
00:57:07"We need to talk about men's mental health more." You need to put your emotions where your mouth is,
00:57:13so to speak.
00:57:13Trey Lockerbie : My natural thought, at least from my experience, is I don't expect
00:57:20friends to be these pure mixed martial artists that have everything across the board. So I know if,
00:57:27let's say for example, I want to break down in tears to certain people who I'd speak to. And then there's
00:57:32other friends where if I, you know what I mean, want to fucking pull it together, I'll speak to them. So
00:57:37this like having a little bit more of a decentralized on-chain friend base, I just think, yeah,
00:57:44I think expecting the person who helps you to pull it together to then also be the person that's
00:57:49perfect with your emotions, it's hard to have that.
00:57:51Trey Lockerbie : I agree, but if it's the person who
00:57:55is saying, "We need to have better resources for men's mental health, but they're also not being
00:57:59accommodating," that just seems like a kind of hypocrisy to me. And this is from Men Are Good,
00:58:06Tom Golden's thing. And it makes sense because what you basically have as a, like, I think that it takes
00:58:12a lot of work for guys to get over their sort of visceral ick of other men's sad emotions. This is a
00:58:18price that's maybe not seen by women or it's also hidden by men. But if there's a guy who's able to
00:58:25sit in her, like Charlie Hooper, for instance, or Connor Beaton or Joe Hudson or Dr. K, these are
00:58:30people that are trained professionally to be able to do this, obviously. The fact that they can sit,
00:58:34they've had to get over a lot of their programming because your programming as a man is if I'm around
00:58:40another guy who doesn't seem to be able to hold it together emotionally, he's an unreliable ally.
00:58:45How do I know that when we go on our next hunt or when the tribe from the next valley comes and tries
00:58:49to attack us that he's actually going to be able to hold it together? How do I not know that he's going
00:58:53to break down in tears? This is the same reason—this is a spicy one. I need to put a second
00:58:58pair of glasses on for this. William Costello taught me that most homophobia in men isn't homophobia,
00:59:05it's femophobia. The disgust mechanism that gets turned on or the aversion that some men have to
00:59:15seeing gay men isn't necessarily about the gayness. It's about the femininity that is being presented by a
00:59:21man. And that's the same mechanism, the unreliable ally. If this guy doesn't seem to be showing the
00:59:28typical masculine control, conquer, aggression, ten toes forward energy that I expect from other guys,
00:59:39what happens when there is some sort of altercation or issue in future that we need to step in on?
00:59:45So yeah, femophobia, homophobia is kind of interesting.
00:59:48I immediately think of who's the most masculine gay man in the world, who then breaks that,
00:59:54who creates a paradox. Tell me, who's the most masculine gay man that you know?
00:59:58I don't know. I'm usually multiple drinks deep at the time.
01:00:07That is a fucking great question. A lot of the tech bro people, would you look at Peter Thiel and guess
01:00:20gay? I don't think I'd look at him and guess gay. He was in the closet for a long time until Gawker.
01:00:27Yeah. Yeah. With the whole Cogan thing. By the way, if you need a new listen on Audible of a very old,
01:00:34relatively old book, Ryan Holiday's book, Conspiracy. Guy that's written a lot about
01:00:39stoicism. Books on stoicism are good. This one's his best one, by a distance. So fucking good.
01:00:44Tell me you've read it. A while ago.
01:00:46It's fucking amazing. It's so fantastic.
01:00:49What's the plot? It's around Hulk Hogan.
01:00:51So Peter Thiel gets ousted by Gawker. I think it's Gawker's subsidiary company. I can't remember
01:01:01what it's called. Um, that was reporting on Silicon Valley. And, uh, I swear the headline
01:01:07was something like Peter Thiel's gay as shit people. And, uh, at this point he still wasn't
01:01:13out about the fact that he is. And he held onto this for maybe five or six years. And he's building
01:01:22this case behind the scenes and he recruits this guy called, uh, Mr. A. Mr. A was this operator that
01:01:28came to him who was just going to be able to like a legal expert, uh, Machiavellian conniving sort of
01:01:34guy. And they start to look for ways to take down this company. And then the Hulk Hogan sex tape
01:01:42happens. And during the trial for the Hulk Hogan sex tape, it turns out that, uh, Terry Baleo,
01:01:48Hulk Hogan's just got like infinity money. He's got the best lawyers. He's got, he just can drive this
01:01:54thing into the ground to keep on taking Gorka down. It turns out that Peter Thiel uses the
01:02:02Hulk Hogan sex tape as a way to get back at the organization and reporters that ousted him as gay
01:02:10like nearly 10 years ago by the time that this thing happens. And it, the revenge is a dish best served
01:02:17cold. There's no better epitomized by any other story than that. Like a decade of just sitting on it and
01:02:21seething and having, you know, this huge secret that you've kept as a very public person who's
01:02:26early into Facebook and supporting like conservative candidates. And yeah, it's widely discussed, uh,
01:02:34the evil nature of social media or the ills of social media that exists today.
01:02:39Um, a lot of people hark back to this previous long gone era where you're from, but the, where I am from.
01:02:46No, not, not quite there just yet, but the golden peop, the thing people forget about the golden era that
01:02:53they're harking back to is the shit. We always forget the shit. And even the journalist standards that used to
01:03:01exist, the amount of journalists, particularly British press that would pay people to sleep with people,
01:03:08then report the stories. This was a regular thing in journalism in the UK, even, um, numerous football
01:03:15players, athletes, they'd have to be constantly wary of, does this person actually like me or has, uh,
01:03:24a well-known British publication who I shan't name cause they're still going is paying or they may pay
01:03:30somebody to approach me. Um, is using it as a story. That was a thing. That was why that was common.
01:03:35Like honeypot type scenario should be a crime. And that was, was that, is that legal? Was that legal?
01:03:44I, I don't know, but I guess what's the difference between a kiss and tell
01:03:48and pay and a pay and kiss and tell. Like the order of the money is the only thing that's different here.
01:03:55Yeah. Depends when the invoice technically gets cleared. Always comes down to finance.
01:04:01Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, it depends if you've got a negative cash, cash flow conversion cycle.
01:04:05Do you want to explain why you were so obsessed with Gymshark's negative cash flow conversion cycle?
01:04:08No, no, no, no, no, no. Um, first off we, we, we don't defend yourself.
01:04:13No, no, no, no, no. Stop defending yourself.
01:04:16So for people, uh, who want to know what a cash flow conversion cycle is, which is approximately
01:04:22about 1% of people listening, I'll get through it fast. Essentially a cash flow conversion cycle is
01:04:27when you get the money. So let's say for example, Chris is running new tonic. He'll pay a manufacturer
01:04:35to make this beautiful drink. Then, um, he will obviously sell it to potentially supermarkets,
01:04:41big stores around the UK. There's a crunch period of, well, how much credit can I get with
01:04:46manufacturers? And then how much credit can I get with the supermarkets? Because if you,
01:04:50if you have to pay your manufacturers today for stock that will arrive in three months,
01:04:54and then the supermarket doesn't pay you for three months, that's what's, that's a,
01:04:58I think a positive cash flow conversion cycle. So a negative cash flow conversion cycle is when you
01:05:04get the, um, you almost have delayed for the manufacturers and then you can sell right away,
01:05:08which is a lot of what e-commerce companies do. So I was once at a bar in Manchester
01:05:13talking to my friend about negative cash flow conversion cycles, and we saw these like-
01:05:17Just repelling any woman within a five meter radius.
01:05:20Well, no, no, no. We saw, we saw this group of girls like look over and like say hello.
01:05:24And I had a girlfriend at the time, so I wasn't, wasn't going to do anything,
01:05:26but I just started laughing at the thought of if only they could hear, they would be repulsed.
01:05:31Well, we've done that. We, was it, uh, at Summer of Loud festival last year in, uh, the amphitheater,
01:05:38the Georgia amphitheater here in Austin. And we were backstage and we got all the cool passes and
01:05:42were all of these like cool metal chicks walking around. And then a couple came over and sat down
01:05:47next to us. What the fuck were we talking about? I swear it was something like this.
01:05:52There was some debate that we were having and these girls sat down from a distance and we had a
01:05:56couple of our kind of like super chatty mates with us. Keegan was with us, right. Who's essentially like,
01:06:02proper Roman Adonis, not you. The Chad's Chad. Yeah. He's the Chad's Chad.
01:06:05And these women come over and obviously look thinking, what are they going to be talking about?
01:06:10It's going to be so cool and sexy. And they came over and they were talking about how we all come
01:06:14from a conversion rate optimization background and the blended NCPA of our Facebook ads manager could
01:06:20be doing with a little bit of improvement. Well, tell me how many are split testing on the back end.
01:06:23It's interesting. I'm not sure if Opus 5.5 is actually going to be as good as people expect.
01:06:27And they just slowly over time got this look of,
01:06:31it's probably, it wasn't boredom. It was closer to disgust. It was like watching somebody desecrate
01:06:37a beautiful temple because what they saw was this amazing potential in Keegan, this beautiful man,
01:06:45but the way that he was handling himself and what he was talking about.
01:06:47The biggest takeaway I always get whenever I'm on a friend's birthday or a bachelor party,
01:06:54of there'll be a moment where I'll just start chuckling to myself at the, often it will be
01:07:01somebody might have a girlfriend, like one of the guys in the, we'll have like a new relationship
01:07:05where she's been like really wary about him going to this birthday party or bachelor party.
01:07:10Meanwhile, it's me in a, a one hour debate at dinner talking about whether Rude Van Nistelrooy was
01:07:16a better footballer than Thierry Henry. Like that's what they don't see or like Jim,
01:07:20Jim sharks, negative cashflow conversion cycle. I think if a lot of guys, girlfriends or wives could
01:07:24see that they have this imagination that there's going to be all this chaos and these girls that are
01:07:29coming over and the strip club. Meanwhile, it's usually a Google sheet or Excel formulas.
01:07:35It's, it's, it's us trying to track down that guy that bought the cigars and opened up the
01:07:39Strait of Hormuz by sneaking himself into the middle of a race. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I wonder if
01:07:46it might be inverse. It might be the fact that the guys that you don't think are getting up to
01:07:53naughty shit while they're away probably are. Yes.
01:07:56And the guys that you don't think are getting, the guys that you think are getting up to it aren't,
01:08:00they're the ones that are talking about how they come from a conversion rate optimization background.
01:08:04Yeah. Very, very important. By the way, if you're coming to the UK and Ireland tour later this year,
01:08:10I'm going to be bringing some of you up on stage to answer your questions. So if you've got a question
01:08:14or a story that you think would be worth me talking about, you can go to chriswilliamson.live/questions
01:08:19and give me your questions and I'll be picking the best ones and you can join me on tour.
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01:09:26"A checkout." A little question for you. I can't pronounce this word, but I'm going to give it a go. Have you heard of, I think it's hypomaneta?
01:09:37No. So I got it from my friend, Henrik Carlsen, who has this wonderful sub stack. And during my era, the either ancient Greek or Roman era, it's very different to what it was today.
01:09:50So we have this kind of bombardment of new information. We're constantly scrolling social media.
01:09:56I'm sure you have this where you'll see this amazing pithy tweet, or you'll read something incredible and your life's going to change forever after from this point onwards.
01:10:06And then three months later, you see the thing again, you go, I've completely forgotten about that. And it had no impact at all.
01:10:12So what the ancient Greeks or the Romans used to do would be, they would have a book of all these insights that they'd collected.
01:10:20And each morning they would think of a problem that they're facing and they would go and meditate on the specific passage or the specific quote.
01:10:27So what I was actually, this is where my question, question time kicks in is, let's say you was to have that little notepad notebook of lessons that you often forget or simply just wish that you took more seriously, that you would look at each day. What is on your list?
01:10:50So what is, what are the most known, but not followed?
01:10:59Not necessarily not followed by other people. It could just be, or it could even be followed by yourself. Just not as much. You always underprice this lesson. You wish you took it more seriously.
01:11:15Something like no amount of worrying is going to make any difference to what happens.
01:11:21Some lesson along those lines, because worrying is very addictive.
01:11:25It's very addictive because it feels like making progress.
01:11:28Homozi once, when I started doing investing, he gave me this really wonderful piece of advice on a call.
01:11:34And he said, the most dangerous calls in all of business are just calling to connect.
01:11:42Would just love to, would just love to explain the business to you.
01:11:45Because they have all of the trappings of doing work and making progress, but never result in work being done.
01:11:53You need to join that sequence further down the line once more scrutiny is being done. Like the first stage, second stage. This is why I think in order to end up in front of him to do acquisition.com, you're 10 stages deep into the circle of hell.
01:12:06And worrying kind of feels like the same thing. Although it's not as conscious. You're not doing it because you think that it's going to be, you forget this is not moving my situation forward.
01:12:18No amount of anxiety is going to change the outcome. No amount of worrying is going to actually make a difference to anything that happens. And ultimately all of your worries were a waste of time in any case.
01:12:27There's a great book that I, or like book of stories of interviewing all people about their lives. And one of them, she said, what was one of your best lessons you ever had?
01:12:40And she goes, I had this like nightmare thing that I was ruminating on worrying about. So I called one of my friends and I tell her, I just kept spilling and telling everything that I'm worried about.
01:12:50And she goes, do you remember six months ago when you came to me about this nightmare worry that you had? And she names it back. She goes, no, I don't. And she goes, exactly. Just hung up.
01:13:04She goes, it was one of the best lessons of my life. I was like, oh, this thing is going to be here today and then gone tomorrow.
01:13:09I also saw this humorous statistic, which was they had people apparently with generalized anxiety disorder, put down their worries and then they tracked how many of them came true.
01:13:21And it was found that 91.6% didn't come true. But if you have true anxiety, you start wondering, well, what about that? What about that remaining 8.4%?
01:13:35That's, that's real anxiety right there. I'm in the 8.4%. I knew that I would be in the 8.4%.
01:13:41There was another guy who helped Lewis Capaldi of anxiety. I think he wrote a book called Addicted to Anxiety.
01:13:48And he apparently once cured somebody of their anxiety, like removed a lot of the issues. And they rang them the next day saying, I'm anxious. Where's my anxiety gone?
01:13:58It's like almost this addiction that exists.
01:14:01Yeah. I was talking to Joe Hudson yesterday and there's a bunch of stuff that's maybe exciting or that is exciting that's happening. I shouldn't hedge the fact that this thing is maybe exciting.
01:14:11A bunch of stuff going on that's exciting. And I was like, I'm a little, I'm unsure how to navigate this preamble, this, the buildup toward the buildup. And he said, if I was your coach, which obviously he is.
01:14:25He's like, if I was your coach, I would tell you that you need to work on your pleasure anxiety, which is that being excited about something in advance often feels an awful lot like anxiety.
01:14:33And they're very, very close. What would it be for you? What would the lesson be that you most repeatedly come back to?
01:14:40Oh, you know, one would be David Ogilvie's line of, you think you're advertising to a standing army, but you're actually advertising to a moving parade.
01:14:53Yep. So in the niche world of advertising, Ogilvie applies it in the sense that he would work with these huge brands and these huge brands would be like, why are we still running this ad? I've seen it everywhere.
01:15:02And it's like, nobody else has seen things the way you've seen them. But what I love about that idea is it's not just necessarily ad campaigns. It applies to, we constantly observe ourselves significantly more than anybody else is observing us.
01:15:14So it's this standing army versus moving parade.
01:15:16Mm-hmm. And how does that relate to you?
01:15:19Well, okay. Um, so here, like a little one, right?
01:15:23So, uh, I put together this list recently of all the best books, um, that I've read and I'll post it out there, highagency.com forward slash books for people listening.
01:15:33I'll post it out there and I will then think about, oh, I don't necessarily want to post it again. People have already seen it.
01:15:39But then on the 17th post, somebody go, oh, I've just found this. And often it's the case that nobody has fucking seen it. It's always a moving parade. So that's one lesson.
01:15:50Uh, there's a legendary story in advertising circles about automagnate Henry Ford. He had a layout of the company's latest print ad tacked to his wall, which he saw every time he came into his office.
01:15:58One day he'd loudly announced that he was tired of the ad and it was high time to create a new one. But Mr. Ford, his assistant stammered, that hasn't even started running yet.
01:16:10It's only natural for a client to get tired of an ad long before its intended audience does. So how can you determine when it's time to change your campaign?
01:16:16Mm-hmm. And they'll see this when, when it's, this is particularly British syndrome. I don't think Americans struggle with this as much, but when a Brit will do some new creative endeavor, do a business,
01:16:28anything, they almost feel past the first initial ask to follow up is very un-British, Christopher.
01:16:37Do you, were you friends with me when I made gas your friends up my tagline for a couple of years?
01:16:41Yes.
01:16:41That would have been at the start of our friendship.
01:16:43I believe I was gassed.
01:16:44Yeah. Well, you would try. You were. You've actually been probably the most gassed of all of my friends about everything I've done. But yeah, I, I, I just had this line that, um, if you support Rihanna's new single more than your friend's new business, you're a bad friend.
01:16:55It's so fucking true. Like gas your friends up, dude, buy their shit, support them, share their work, tell them they're doing good. Like, obviously don't encourage them to do something which is horrendous and give them feedback. But like, at the very least you can support it. They've done something in their, buy the fucking ticket, go to the show, support your friends.
01:17:13It's very, uh, mimetic though, right? You kind of have.
01:17:17Someone needs to begin. It's like having, it's like having an open, uh, emotionally intimate relationship until somebody opens up.
01:17:23It's different. No, I mean more that I think one of the reasons why you have less of that is that people see sometimes their friends weirdly as, as rivals because they have more similarities in common with them.
01:17:36Oh, narcissism is small differences. Maybe. But I think my, I think my point still stands, which is
01:17:42if you want your friends to support you more, a great way to do that is to start supporting your friends.
01:17:51Now, it's another Joe Hudsonism when it comes to communicating that if you show up in your relationship differently after about six or seven, like very differently, uh, there is a typical flow that you and your partner go through.
01:18:05They get to be the, they get to be the bully and you get to be the victim or they get to be the victim and you get to be the savior.
01:18:11There is a dance, a sort of tone or rhythm to the way that you communicate.
01:18:16And if when that happens, you show up in a very different way, presumably a much more positive way, more regulated, more calm, more peaceful, more listening, empathetic.
01:18:25It only takes seven times of you doing that.
01:18:30They'll notice after the first time, after the next few, they'll really notice after about seven times on average.
01:18:36He said their pattern just can't continue.
01:18:40It's like playing tennis with the other person, not hitting the ball back.
01:18:44So if you want to change the situation that you're in, the best thing to do is change your own behavior.
01:18:48That's beautiful.
01:18:49It's cool.
01:18:50That would be on my list.
01:18:52What else would you have on your list?
01:18:56Your default choices are almost always wrong.
01:19:01Like if you don't step into your programming and just think a little, and this is where the rumination trap
01:19:07comes in because you think, Ooh, thinking's good for me.
01:19:10Let's do an infinite amount.
01:19:12Let's do an infinite amount of it.
01:19:15No, it's like, you need to do just a little bit.
01:19:18Um, you need to practice something before you end up relying on instinct.
01:19:24At least that's, uh, that's a lesson that keeps coming back to me that most of your defaults, uh,
01:19:31the confused chemical signals coming from your body or social norms or paths of least resistance or
01:19:38the way that you've dealt with past trauma.
01:19:41Almost all of those are not things that you consciously chosen.
01:19:45Yes.
01:19:46Like the things that you want, aren't the things that you want to want.
01:19:49And if you don't take some time designing your desires, you end up following the path that everyone
01:19:56else does and like outsourcing your wisdom to the group is usually a bad idea.
01:20:01Even what you said then around the questioning, the first thought, assuming the first thought,
01:20:07isn't necessarily you.
01:20:09I always go back to that wonderful, uh, meditation exercise of what's the next thought going to be.
01:20:14Yeah.
01:20:14You sit there.
01:20:15Try it now.
01:20:15If anybody, where you sit there and you just ask yourself, I'm not going to think,
01:20:21but let's just see what the next four appears.
01:20:24It's you just become the watcher.
01:20:26And I find when I did that for the first time, it was simply, uh, the Bayern Munich player,
01:20:32Iron Robin cutting in on his left foot.
01:20:34And then it's like, huh, why, why is that there?
01:20:37I haven't thought of him in a long, long time.
01:20:39And you begin to realize a lot of it is just an automatic response.
01:20:45What else do you like from, uh, meditation questions?
01:20:49I know that's one of your favorites.
01:20:50What are some of the other ones that have been really resonant with you?
01:20:57The problem with, uh, talking about meditation is first, you look like a wanker.
01:21:03Well, yeah, but it's very late for that.
01:21:09So that you've got to, you've got to address that up front.
01:21:11The second problem is, have you ever heard, there's this great line where, when what happens is
01:21:21learning meditation, it's kind of like learning Japanese.
01:21:25And then you go and tell everybody how wonderful it is, but you do so in Japanese.
01:21:30So that's why when you read anything about it, it almost doesn't make sense.
01:21:34A cool one is to try and turn, uh, like awareness in on itself.
01:21:38Have you ever tried that where you think of your awareness and then you try and
01:21:42become aware of it.
01:21:43And it's almost like this mirror and you go, oh, that's quite scary.
01:21:47That's one of, uh, Sam's like quick hit things where you try and catch your own awareness quickly.
01:21:54It's kind of strange because most of the time when you're doing any meditation or mindfulness,
01:21:58it's this evolving, it's slow, but this is more like trying to get an animal in a trap,
01:22:04except the animal is you and the trap is also you.
01:22:07Uh, anyway, George Mack, ladies and gentlemen, love you all.
01:22:10Thank you very much for tuning in.
01:22:12Where should people go?
01:22:13Highagency.com forward slash books.
01:22:16Read them.
01:22:17Heck yeah.
01:22:17All right.
01:22:18Goodbye, my beauties.
01:22:19Dude.
01:22:20Yes.
01:22:21Let's go.
01:22:23Thank you very much for tuning in.
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