Transcript
00:00:00As somebody that's basically a philistine and has seen maybe two or three theater shows in his entire life, of a career of being a spectator, and obviously a person who kind of understands the art form as well, what are the ones that stand out to you as, that was really, really special?
00:00:15Well, I'll tell you, Les Miserables, which is probably a very common answer for people, I was like 13 years old and I had never really been moved to tears by art before. I had never seen something as a young person so beautiful in my life. I was so moved by the music, I was so moved by the stagecraft, the story was thrilling.
00:00:40So that was a really seminal moment in my young life. You know, my dad had been bringing me to see all the plays. I lived in North Jersey, so my dad would bring me in, you know, it took 45 minutes and he loved theater. He got me into it. So he would bring me to see all these plays. A lot of them were sillies, a lot would go over my head, but I loved it.
00:00:58And then Les Miserables was the first one where I was at the right age to feel emotion, to have tears streaming down my face. And that's when I was like, what is this? This art form is something that is so powerful.
00:01:12And so then I went on to see like so many productions that both musicals and dramas and comedies were, there was just so much joy for me in seeing it happen live and having it be different every single time.
00:01:25And the shared experience with people around you who are also swiping a tear or laughing, that's just something really magical. When it's great. When it's great, it's just so fun.
00:01:37What about when it's bad?
00:01:39When it's bad, it's really bad. And, uh, you know, I never leave an intermission just because I've, I've, I'm an actor myself and I feel too bad to do that. Um, uh, yeah, it can be, it can be, it can be horrible, but, um, I try, you know, I do, I do, I do filter what I'm not, I'm not going to see things totally blind.
00:01:58You're not going in blind.
00:01:58I don't go in totally blind. No, that would be, that would be, that would be, I'd be lying if I said I was just going to any random show. I definitely go to what I've heard my friends say, you got to check this out.
00:02:07I've heard that you wanted to be a doctor at one point.
00:02:11When I was in high school, there was a program in my high school with the, the town had a volunteer rescue squad. Um, I guess, uh, that that's just the way it works in some towns. Um, in New Jersey, at least I can only speak to that is that the town has a volunteer rescue squad of people who are EMTs, who, who donate their time. And there's an ambulance service on serious calls. The paramedics come in a separate ambulance from the hospital.
00:02:37Um, and they had a program for kids that were 17 and up to volunteer and get trained and go on calls. And I went on many calls, um, with the ambulance service and you know, you're mostly doing the grunt work. You're, you're carrying gear, you're moving the stretchers, uh, you're, you're taking blood pressures, but it was thrilling.
00:02:59And, uh, I think there was a moment there where I thought, wow, what a, what an exciting career path to be. And not, not that I could necessarily stand the education to become a real doctor. Um, ironically, but, um, but maybe a paramedic or maybe, um, something in the, something in the field.
00:03:17Um, and, um, and then I just never really excelled at the classes that, you know, biology and chemistry and all the things that you need to be really great at. I, I just didn't have the interest or the skill.
00:03:28The fun bits were fun, but the technical bits got in the way.
00:03:31The adrenaline was fun and coming to the rescue was fun. And, um, uh, I loved all that. I loved, I loved coming to the rescue. I loved, um, the adrenaline of it, um, and, and feeling like you helped people.
00:03:45And, and, and you felt really good. Also, there was a volunteer aspect of it that I'm, that I'm sorry, that that was important part of it too. I was, I felt great that I was doing all of this and volunteering.
00:03:53In service.
00:03:54In service. Yes.
00:03:55Interesting. You get the three emergency services, right? You've got ambulance, fire, police. There's an issue going on. The ambulance turns up. Everybody's grateful. There's an issue going on. The fire service turns up. Everybody's grateful and turned on. The police turn up.
00:04:12People get a little bit suspicious. Unless you're the very person that needs it. Everyone immediately gets on watch. And I always think, I always feel bad for police officers. They're doing a thing. They're still doing a service. And in many ways, they're in the line of fire. They're dealing with much more kinetic situations. I guess firefighters too. And also I'm sure ambulance, but you think, fuck it. Like police officers really, you know, they're being shouted at and there's all of this potential stuff and they're looking over the shoulders. And no, that must be hard.
00:04:39It must be hard to be a police officer when you look at your fellow, you know, of the three branches that you could have gone down on emergency services. Like people sort of clap and applaud and there's a lot more heroism around that. And the public perception, I think, of police officers has had a rough run for the last decade or so.
00:04:55Absolutely. And there's a lot more nuance to that profession than fire and ambulance.
00:05:01Stop fire, get cat out of tree or keep person alive, as opposed to do one of like 50,000 million things here.
00:05:08Yeah. Yeah.
00:05:09Um, but there was a burglary, a home invasion on my street, uh, this week and, uh, it's scary. I was certainly happy that they were, they were there home invasion, like a robbery while they broke in the house and, and, uh, held this woman and, and, and stole her jewelry.
00:05:26And we're in no rush to get out of there. It was scary.
00:05:31That's gnarly.
00:05:32Yeah, it was gnarly.
00:05:34Yeah. I, um, it's an interesting one thinking about what jobs you would do if you weren't doing what you did.
00:05:40I was thinking about this the other day. Have you ever, obviously you maybe didn't have the chops to do the.
00:05:45I didn't have the, I didn't have the interest in, in, in, uh, in, uh, in school enough to go to get into medical school or the SET scores or the, or the grades or, I mean, you really have to love school.
00:05:57Um, I love design. I, you know, I think I'm really into, uh, architecture and design, and I think that kind of overlaps with what I do as a director because you're hiring and collaborating with extremely talented crafts people who are the best at what they do.
00:06:17And you're saying, I have this rough idea. Will you help me execute it? And then you put together this team of insanely talented, in the case of film cinematographers and production designers and costume designers and actors, and everyone comes together and they help you execute.
00:06:33And, uh, and, and, and, and to me, if I, if I, if I wasn't allowed to work in entertainment for some reason, that's something that really lights me up because I, I, I do love, um, architecture and design.
00:06:45Who's someone on a film set or on a, on a production that makes a massive difference that most people from outside of the industry don't even consider?
00:06:54The cinematographer, I mean, I think is the, is the number one, uh, collaborative person the director has.
00:07:01That is his, his or her right hand person.
00:07:06What's their role for people that don't understand?
00:07:07For people that don't know, um, the way that this, everything is photographed, the, the, the, the lens choice, the way, just for example, that this interview is being lit, was lit by a talented cinematographer who chose where to put these three lights and, and how does, how, what lenses he was going to put on the cameras and how in post-production it was going to be colored.
00:07:29So much of that makes a difference.
00:07:31I would imagine a lot of laymen, uh, think that that's all the director.
00:07:35The director is sort of the conductor of the orchestra.
00:07:38If the crew is the orchestra, the director is the conductor of the orchestra.
00:07:42And if the first violinist is, let's say the most important person in the orchestra, uh, I, I would say that's the cinematographer.
00:07:49And the director is there going, I can't play the violin like that.
00:07:53I can't play the bassoon like that.
00:07:54You guys are the best at what you do.
00:07:56My job is to go a little more of this, a little more, a little less of that.
00:08:00And, um, and yeah, the other position that I'm sure most people, not in the business, uh, I'm sure most people in the business don't know anything about is the first AD, who is the first assistant director.
00:08:13Who's running the whole set, um, in theater parlance, that's kind of like the stage manager, but you know, the director is in charge of overseeing the creative aspects of, of what we're making.
00:08:24But someone is marshalling this, oftentimes enormous crew and all the background and all the actors all around.
00:08:31And the, and the head of that department is the first assistant director.
00:08:34And that's a very stressful job.
00:08:37They, um, they stereotypically die young because it's so stressful.
00:08:41No way.
00:08:41Yeah.
00:08:42They're trading the lifespan for good productions.
00:08:44They are.
00:08:44They're going into OT.
00:08:45They always laugh about it.
00:08:47They're always like, you know, we, they always, they always have a, they always laugh and go, you know, we stereotypically die young.
00:08:53Um, but, uh, it's very stressful job.
00:08:55It's hard to, it's hard to do.
00:08:57They're the people that make sure it doesn't go into overtime.
00:08:59Yeah.
00:08:59They're managing how much time you have.
00:09:01So when you make a schedule for, we shoot scrubs, for example, in, in five days.
00:09:05And so they're.
00:09:07How many episodes in five days?
00:09:08We shoot one episode in five days.
00:09:10Right.
00:09:10And so they.
00:09:12Always.
00:09:13Always.
00:09:14Even back in the day.
00:09:15Yeah.
00:09:15Five days.
00:09:16Oh, okay.
00:09:17It's, um, it's kind of crazy.
00:09:19Um, the new streaming comedies have the ones that I direct have, um, have sort of moved to six and a half days, which is a lot, which you'd think only is a day and a half more, but it's a huge difference in terms of executing it in a, in a relatively sane way.
00:09:36We're talking about a half hour of television, uh, doing it in five days, especially a show like scrubs that has these, uh, surreal set pieces and, uh, you know, the fantasies and lots of moving parts, lots of moving parts, like camera being a character.
00:09:51And also not to mention that, you know, 60 to a hundred background every day.
00:09:57Mm.
00:09:57Mm.
00:09:58So it's, it's, it's a lot to, um, to, it's a big cruise ship to, to, to, to move around and, um, the, the first AD is in charge of making that schedule and, um, telling you like, Hey, we're sort of fucked for time.
00:10:11You gotta, you gotta move on.
00:10:12Yeah.
00:10:13Wow.
00:10:13So that means that there's some scene that you aren't quite happy with and you're like, dude, this, it, you, it's done.
00:10:19Like you're done with the scene.
00:10:20Well, you as the director are the, are the ultimate, uh, decision maker and am I going to spend more time on this and then say, fuck that next scene.
00:10:30I'll, I'll do that.
00:10:31I was, I had a lot of good ideas about how I was going to shoot it.
00:10:34I'm going to shoot it way more simply now because this isn't working yet.
00:10:38You're, you're the one who's in charge of, of the day.
00:10:42The time has been allotted for that day for, for just to do these scenes.
00:10:45You have to do those scenes.
00:10:46Yep.
00:10:47Of course, occasionally you have to punt one, but for the most part, you have to do that.
00:10:51And, um, it's, you're constantly watching the time and going, okay, fuck.
00:10:57And what we do is we, the, you'll, I get a special call sheet that only certain people have, the producers and the AD, and that has little times written into all of the schedule because you don't want everyone knowing that you're behind or you're ahead.
00:11:09It's not good for, for, not a good leadership thing.
00:11:12Uh, I don't believe it's best that you just.
00:11:15You do your job.
00:11:16I'll tell you when to move.
00:11:16Exactly.
00:11:17Yeah.
00:11:17Yeah.
00:11:18How'd it feel to be back in an old production?
00:11:21I love it.
00:11:22It's a, it's a whole new responsibility for me because I, I, I did this show as a, as a young man.
00:11:28I was very green.
00:11:30Um, I learned so much doing it.
00:11:33And now I'm back in a leadership executive producer role being the boss and the guy who taught me everything I know is, is not really there and he, um, he's there to advise me on the phone and he's there to get involved when there's a fire that needs putting out.
00:11:53But I'm back now in a, in a, in a, in a capacity as, as the leader and, uh, and it's a whole lot more stressful than just showing up and being funny.
00:12:02Is that, talk to me about the, the challenge of going from, I just need to show up and do my lines to, I need to show up and do everything and do my lines.
00:12:10It's extraordinarily stressful.
00:12:12Um, did you want that?
00:12:14Did you not just want to go back and have fun?
00:12:17That wasn't going to work.
00:12:19Um, so Bill Lawrence created the show and Bill, it's, it was his sort of one person vision.
00:12:27You know, it was a very specific vision.
00:12:28The reason it worked so much, it was, it was so unique.
00:12:31It was comedy.
00:12:31It was drama.
00:12:32It had surreal fantasies.
00:12:34Uh, it had the, the, the setting of a hospital, which has infinite possibilities for, for, for.
00:12:40Comedy and drama.
00:12:42These seven main characters that audiences really fell in love with and, and followed them for, for eight and a half years.
00:12:49Um, but Bill has many shows happening right now.
00:12:53So as much as everyone wanted Scrubs to come back, including Bill, he couldn't, he certainly couldn't be writing it and micromanaging it.
00:13:01So who would do that?
00:13:03Um, there's someone who runs the writer's room and is the head writer.
00:13:07Uh, her name is Asim Batra.
00:13:09She was a writer on the original Scrubs.
00:13:11Um, but the writer's room is here in LA.
00:13:14We shoot the show in Vancouver.
00:13:17So who is going to be overseeing Scrubs up there?
00:13:21The production of it all.
00:13:23Um, I had, I had partners, um, uh, several producing partners who helped me, but I, I know the show better than anybody.
00:13:32The truth, the truth, the truth, I know the show better than anyone.
00:13:34I direct the show.
00:13:36Um, and I, and, and my mentor was the guy.
00:13:39I mean, I'm, I'm the one, the funny thing is I keep saying this is that the pilot of this new Scrubs is about JD coming back because Dr. Cox says, you should come back.
00:13:51Um, we should get the band back together.
00:13:55You should come back and make a difference.
00:13:56And, and, and, and, uh, and JD acquiesces and says, yes, I'm, I'm, I'm here.
00:14:02I can't wait to work with you.
00:14:03And then his mentor goes, oh, you misunderstood.
00:14:05I'm not going to be here.
00:14:06You're in charge.
00:14:08That's the pilot of the reboot, the revival.
00:14:10And we were up there shooting and it's literally what happened.
00:14:14I had had this impression, even though Bill had said like, Hey, I'm, I'm running like three other shows.
00:14:18I can't.
00:14:19And I also, there's also just some stuff with, you know, it's a, it's a Disney property.
00:14:23He has a Warner brothers deal.
00:14:24He can't be there.
00:14:26Complexity.
00:14:27So, but I didn't really, I truly didn't have the epiphany until we were shooting when I went, this is literally the show we're making.
00:14:34He's the one who called me and said, let's get everyone back together.
00:14:36Let's be so fun.
00:14:37And now we're literally shooting the pilot and it's so intense and so hard.
00:14:42And we're really trying to nail this for the fans.
00:14:44And he's like, oh, and by the way, I think he may have misunderstood.
00:14:46Like, I'm not going to, I'm going to be there.
00:14:48This is you.
00:14:49You got this.
00:14:50And, uh, so I, I did have to step up in a way that I hadn't foreseen.
00:14:55Um, and it was very stressful, but when the pilot was cut, it was, it changed everything.
00:15:03Everyone.
00:15:04Was like, oh, this could be really good.
00:15:08The studio, the, the network, Bill himself, everyone kind of changed.
00:15:12Did it feel like a passing of the torch when he got the, the pat on the shoulder from dad?
00:15:15Finally, after all of these years, you did good, son.
00:15:18Absolutely.
00:15:18Because he's not huge with the compliments.
00:15:20He wrote me a Christmas card this year that was basically like the nicest thing he's ever said to me.
00:15:25And then it ended with, I hope this will last for at least a year.
00:15:31Nostalgia is a pretty powerful force.
00:15:33Yeah.
00:15:34How do you make sure it's, um, serving the show instead of just trapping it?
00:15:39I think we were very aware of what are all the pitfalls of these revivals, reboots and revivals.
00:15:43Malcolm in the Middle has come back too.
00:15:46Yeah, I didn't never watch that show, but it's, I, as I, as I understand it, been very well received for people that, that that show was, uh, important to, um, for our purposes.
00:15:58I was very, I, I, I, I sort of did research on what are the common pitfalls of this.
00:16:04And one of them is just trying to milk nostalgia because you're never going to build a new audience by going, remember this, remember that, oh, wasn't it funny?
00:16:13Just doing callback jokes that gets exhausting.
00:16:17And also it doesn't interest a new, uh, base of the audience.
00:16:22You're just having people that, um, were diehard fans of the original show, which isn't enough to really sustain an audience for a modern day show.
00:16:29That's an ABC prime time and streaming on Hulu the next day you have to find, you have to find a way to build the audience and also scrubs was very big around the world.
00:16:38So there's a lot of people that are going to let be interested, but they're not going to hold their interest, um, with just nostalgia bait.
00:16:45So the challenge is how do you thread that needle of, um, finding the tone again and, but also bringing in new characters and new scenarios and new people.
00:16:56We're 50 years old now.
00:16:58We were, we were the kids.
00:16:59The show was, I just kind of, you know, I think this is funny.
00:17:02I had this epiphany just recently, but we were talking about ideas for season two.
00:17:07The show was about three interns.
00:17:11That's what the old show was about.
00:17:12Now the show is about three attendings, three senior doctors.
00:17:17The it's a teaching hospital.
00:17:18So it's always going to be about have interns in it and about, and about teaching and mentorship and friendship.
00:17:24But, um, the show, the focus of the show isn't interns anymore.
00:17:28The focus of the show is the teachers.
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00:18:20Did it make you see your experience from the past in a different way, kind of fascinated at the opportunity to go back?
00:18:31Anything that's been formative for anybody, any experience, somebody goes to university and they have a time there and they look back after a decade and they wish they'd done things differently or they see things that passed them by or that they didn't pay attention to or they pay too much attention to.
00:18:48A lot of the time, if only coach had put me in, I would have won the high school game and then my NFL contract, rah, rah, rah, rah, varying degrees of different things.
00:18:57I wonder if after a long time, nine years of shooting it originally, to then a break, to then I'm back again, now different role, if it makes you see that experience previously in a different light or if it allowed you to close some loops and...
00:19:16It made me grateful for how much I learned, I mean, I wanted to make movies, I wanted to make TV, I wanted to be a director.
00:19:22I went to film school, I got out of film school, I was working as a production assistant and waiting tables and auditioning, doing all the things I could to have as many, you know, irons in the fire as possible.
00:19:35And then I got scrubs and I was so excited because every week there's a different director and to me it was like grad school.
00:19:42I got to watch all of these great comedy directors do their thing and they all had different styles and they have to work within the lexicon of the show, but they all had different techniques and styles and ways of doing things.
00:19:53And initially I was just so excited to absorb their wisdom.
00:20:01You know, speed running production film school.
00:20:03Exactly.
00:20:04And with at a pro level being the star of the show and everyone else going to their dressing rooms, me hanging out on set being like, Oh, what are you doing?
00:20:12That's so cool.
00:20:13And then I'm going, Oh, the reason I'm doing this is because of this.
00:20:15And so that was amazing.
00:20:17I think after a while, if when I look back, I go, I, I, I, I started taking it for granted.
00:20:22I, I see some of my, I, you know, Donald phase on my co-star and we did a rewatch podcast of the show.
00:20:28That was one of the, ultimately I think it was one of the catalysts for this revival.
00:20:33And we were very candid.
00:20:35We, we, we watched it and, and, and didn't hold back when we thought we sucked or an episode sucked or we were overacting.
00:20:42And so I think when, when I, when I looked back at it and I thought, wow, I, at a certain point, I don't think I was as good.
00:20:49And, and I think I was overacting and I think I, I see where the wheels kind of fell off the bus.
00:20:55And so now I'm very aware of now that I'm in charge, keeping everyone, uh, uh, at a certain quality, especially myself.
00:21:04Did you ever feel constrained by being so well known for one role?
00:21:08Obviously there's a, a, a curse of success in, in some degrees people get typecast.
00:21:13But what was some of the things that were enabled and some of the things that were limited by doing that?
00:21:21It's what everybody wants.
00:21:22I want to be really well known and have a wonderful production.
00:21:24And then at the same time, there's a, there's some side dishes that come along with that.
00:21:28That happens to almost everyone that's lucky enough, lucky enough, blessed enough to, to have a breakout hit.
00:21:34Um, and it's very, if you look at the cases in history, it's, it's rare that those people get a whole new array of, of opportunities.
00:21:47Um, Bryan Cranston is a perfect example of someone who did, did Malcolm the Middle and was, was that guy.
00:21:54Until he was the next guy until he, and until breaking bad that was passed on by, as I understand the lore was passed on by like every network.
00:22:03And, and, uh, until I think AMC, uh, made it and Bryan Cranston was reborn, but they, um, that happens of course, because people fall in love with, with this beloved character and they don't see you as, as another thing.
00:22:20Mm-hmm . You can't hardly complain because you were one of the extraordinarily lucky people who got a, uh, an opportunity like, like that.
00:22:28But you do, I'm sure every, but you can't help but bemoan like, ah, I wish I could, I wish I could be taken seriously as something else.
00:22:35I, I was lucky that I had my directing career that I really wanted to pursue.
00:22:38So my own movies and make my own stuff.
00:22:41Um, but in the last couple of years, um, I've been finally getting a couple of parts that are outside the box of, of JD.
00:22:51Something actually through Bill again, who's been my, my biggest champion.
00:22:55He gave me a small part on, uh, Bad Monkey, his show with Vince Vaughn.
00:22:59And I was only in a couple episodes, but the part was so different and I got so much positive feedback for it.
00:23:06And it, it, it, it, it really gave me a new found, um, confidence in my own ability that I had sort of gone.
00:23:14Like maybe I am just, you know, a comic, maybe I am just a sort of JD kind of guy.
00:23:21I mean, I knew I had more colors in me, but I, the response to that little arc on Bad Monkey gave me confidence and in a, in a way.
00:23:30And then I went and did this independent movie that just got into Tribeca where I'm 180 degrees from anything I've ever done playing the, the, this narcotics cop, um, who lost his daughter.
00:23:40It's a true story and, um, so that movie is called clean hands and it's going to be a Tribeca, uh, to the Tribeca film festival this, this summer.
00:23:50But so yeah, I would love to do more and more of that.
00:23:52Um, but I can't complain.
00:23:55I've had the, I've, I've been so lucky.
00:23:57It's interesting.
00:23:58I, I wonder how many people get what you had, which is a kind of almost like a kind of Stockholm syndrome for your own success.
00:24:07So sometimes people get successful for doing a thing.
00:24:12Other people don't want to have to update their worldview about that person.
00:24:16So they don't like it when they deviate.
00:24:19I think we see this in our personal lives.
00:24:21Somebody is the party guy or the party girl.
00:24:23And then I'm focusing on my health.
00:24:25And it's like, uh, this is, uh, I didn't, I have to change who I think you are used to be.
00:24:30And like, it can sometimes cause a little bit of obviously people that are in your life that are wanting the best for you are very happy that you're making this positive lifestyle change.
00:24:39But maybe people who don't want to make that change to their, their behavior gets thrown into harsh contrast.
00:24:44Yeah.
00:24:45But the pressure from the outside, what's interesting about what you said was that you started to see yourself potentially in that, uh, through the looking glass thing.
00:24:54Like, well, maybe I am.
00:24:56Maybe I am just that.
00:24:57Like, maybe that is like, you know, lots of other people seem to like me in that.
00:25:01And am I ever going to have a better hit than that thing before?
00:25:03And I wonder whether it's the same thing with people who just want to change their lives.
00:25:08Somebody wants to go from being that thing.
00:25:10It's like, well, absolutely.
00:25:11Everyone else is telling me that I was like, I was the fun, like party girl or whatever.
00:25:15And now I'm like, I'm just a mom and, and I'm, that's not as exciting or whatever.
00:25:19Maybe people don't, maybe I'm not made for this as opposed to, no, it's their, it's their problem.
00:25:26It's that person's issue to try and update their view of you and evolving and changing person.
00:25:31By the way, that is true in both acting and in life, that if you change who you're being, the people around you have to change who they're being.
00:25:41If I'm in a scene with you and I'm all of a sudden decided to do a take where I'm fucking screaming at you and yelling in your face.
00:25:47If you're even a halfway decent actor, you're going to react differently in the scene.
00:25:52In life, if I totally change my life and I'm not drinking anymore and I'm not going out late and I'm going to the gym and, and you as my friend are going to shift your way of being around me because you have no choice.
00:26:06We can, we can both in acting and in life shift, choose to shift who we're, we're being, and then people can't help but react differently to us.
00:26:18Uh, Joe Hudson, personal growth wizard talks about how if you show up in a different way, the other person's patterns can only usually exist in his estimation for about five to seven interactions.
00:26:33Oh, wow.
00:26:34So there is a, a typical way that you and your partner fight, right?
00:26:37They get to play the victim and you get to play the bully.
00:26:40They get to play the bully and you get to play the savior.
00:26:42Uh, whatever the accepted trade is, I'm going to complain to you and you're going to feel aggrieved or you're going to tell me what it is I need to do.
00:26:52And I'm going to appease whatever it is.
00:26:54There's a kind of exchange.
00:26:56There's a dance.
00:26:57There's a dance move.
00:26:58Yeah.
00:26:59It's like, I'm going to hit the ball over there.
00:27:00You're going to hit it back in a particular way.
00:27:01Yeah.
00:27:02And then if that happens, especially after, and the reason that he said this was after, um, going and doing something like the Hoffman process or internal family systems or, uh, groundbreakers, which is his equivalent, a weekend retreat, or you, you make a really big change in your life.
00:27:17Perhaps it's over a short period of time or a longer period of time.
00:27:21But if this first exchange occurs, the person serves the ball across the net.
00:27:27If you don't hit it back after between five and seven times of that not happening, the other person can't keep doing their pattern.
00:27:36They just simply, I mean, I'm sure that there's some degree of sociopathy that you're able to get to where you just, you just do your thing.
00:27:41Oh, there's enough crazy people out there that will just fucking plow through your, your, your nice evolved, you know, Renaissance patterns.
00:27:47But, um, yeah, that you, if you show up in a different way and I've tried to test this and it really does seem to be like scarily true.
00:27:56There's a, a line Naval Ravikant's got where he says, um, we think that we can change other people, but we can't, we think we can't change ourselves, but we can.
00:28:05And the changing of other people, the easiest way to do that, I think in terms of behavior change is not by telling them what to do.
00:28:12It's just by doing something differently yourself and sticking to it.
00:28:15Yes.
00:28:15Yes.
00:28:15Because if you then fall back into the go, ah, I see.
00:28:18Right.
00:28:19It's kind of like, it's kind of like training your dog.
00:28:21Uh, if you don't, as my Jersey X had dog, if you don't, um, the second, if you're creating, training your dog, the second they're crying and you let them out, you're fucked.
00:28:30You fucked it up.
00:28:31The, you know, uh, hold the line.
00:28:33You have to hold the line.
00:28:34And in terms of, uh, my experience, I didn't know that someone had sort of quantified it to five to seven times.
00:28:39That's interesting.
00:28:40But, um, if you're going to shift your patterns and shift your way of being, you have to hold the line.
00:28:46You have to, you have to not let the dog out of the crate.
00:28:49Yes.
00:28:50No matter, no matter how hard they're crying because, uh, uh, because then, then, then, then, then those people aren't going to shift their way of being back with you.
00:28:59Yes.
00:29:00Yes.
00:29:01What have been the patterns that have been the, I'm pretty fascinated by things that double-edged swords.
00:29:08Most times, uh, someone's greatest strengths are the light side of something that's kind of dark.
00:29:14That, um, I had Ryan Garcia, WBC wildweight champion, and he's obsessive, incredibly obsessive.
00:29:23And that's caused him at some point in his career to drink a lot and party an awful lot and to struggle to get away from it.
00:29:29Uh, it's also caused him to be an absolutely like microscopically focused athlete who would spend, told me the story about how, when he was a kid.
00:29:42He had a fight in the ring with some guy and this guy kept on catching him with a particular shot.
00:29:47And Ryan went home and he just spent two hours in his bedroom thinking about why was he, what was he doing?
00:29:52Why was he catching me with that shot?
00:29:53What was he doing?
00:29:54What was he doing?
00:29:55What was he doing?
00:29:56He went downstairs and told his dad, he's like, tell the kid, come back tomorrow.
00:29:59He's like, you, you sure you just got beat up pretty bad.
00:30:02Like that, that didn't look like a good experience.
00:30:04And he's like, bring him back tomorrow.
00:30:05And what he'd realized was that there was, the guy was stepping and then jabbing and that offbeat was throwing Ryan off.
00:30:12And he was like, okay, so when he does this thing, I'm going to step and then I'm going to hit him.
00:30:15And sure enough, the, the whole game was over because he'd spent two hours replaying this fight in his head.
00:30:21Cause he couldn't not do it.
00:30:22Yeah.
00:30:23But that same skill of the obsession of the attention to detail of the hyper vigilance also gave him the challenges of overbearing problems with his relationships, problems with his kids, problems with substances, like very, very out there anxious sort of like on edge thing.
00:30:41I'm interested in mine's similar without the beating the shit out of anybody.
00:30:44No, I, I, I have OCD and I, I had it bad as a kid.
00:30:50I was, I was one of those kids who had obsessive tapping and you do this math in your head as a child where, or I should say I did where I, you know, it could be a doorknob or it could be this water bottle.
00:31:05And you say, oh, I have to, I have to touch this a certain amount of times or, uh, something bad could happen to my family.
00:31:12Hmm.
00:31:12And then even as a young person, I said, that's crazy.
00:31:16Of course.
00:31:17But just to be safe, it's kinda like a superstition.
00:31:20Adults can relate.
00:31:21Pascal's wager.
00:31:22The obsessive's wager.
00:31:23Yeah.
00:31:24Is that what it's called?
00:31:25You know what Pascal's wager is?
00:31:26It's basically that, um, I don't know whether God is real or not, but the cost of not believing in God is hell and the potential benefit of believing in God is heaven.
00:31:35Okay.
00:31:36Now imagine that in an, uh, eight year old's mind going, I'm wagering.
00:31:40I don't want my family to be harmed.
00:31:42Not sure if it's going to do anything, but I might as well.
00:31:44My brain is telling me that something bad could happen in my family if I don't hit this six times correctly.
00:31:50I know that's crazy, but for safety, for everybody's safety, I should do it.
00:31:54We'll do it again for safety.
00:31:55Yeah.
00:31:56Yeah.
00:31:57And that becomes, you know, I, I, I had it pretty, I had it bad, but you know, lots of, uh, adults and children have it, uh, way worse.
00:32:04But I got, I, I, I was diagnosed with, with that and it made me an anxious.
00:32:09I was anxious.
00:32:10Um, my father had a real, uh, uh, uh, temper and, um, and that was scary.
00:32:18And I think I was, um, he was also, he also had a lovely side and introduced me to the arts and, um, and, uh, and, and could be, and was hilarious.
00:32:28He introduced me to humor, but he did have quite a temper that, uh, I think put me for the rest of my life on, on edge of when something bad was going to happen, when he would randomly explode.
00:32:41Mm-hmm.
00:32:42And, uh, that certainly affected my whole childhood and, and, and I, I, I still feel it as an adult, just a sort of resting anxious state.
00:32:51Mm.
00:32:52Mm.
00:32:53Now that has been great for, for, uh, for me in terms of writing and, and comedy.
00:32:59It's, it, but it's amazing that I, I, I, sometimes I, I find it crazy that I can operate at this, in, in these very anxious leadership positions where so much is on the line and, and there's always a problem.
00:33:11And there's, um, I, I, I am so grateful that I've figured out how to, um, just still step into the ring and, and, and, and, and, and do the really hard things like.
00:33:24Despite not failing like it.
00:33:26Yeah.
00:33:27Despite like, gosh, I, this is going to be hard and I'm going to experience panic and discomfort and anxiety and adrenaline surges that aren't necessarily normal for, for the level of the problem.
00:33:39Yeah.
00:33:40I mean, an OCD anxious person will often have an adrenaline surge that is like, you just almost got into a car accident.
00:33:46And that's what leads some people to panic attacks.
00:33:48That's sort of like the needle going into red and staying in red and then there's a panic attack.
00:33:52Mm.
00:33:53Um, but, but all of that has contributed to, I think, uh, humor and, and, um, and, uh, and, and being in my head a lot and, and maybe some good, some decent writing that, that's, that's come out of that, you know?
00:34:07And the tension to detail.
00:34:09Right.
00:34:10Definitely obsessive attention to detail.
00:34:11Correct.
00:34:12And what I was trying to think about.
00:34:13Me sitting there, it's on, on scrubs at two in the morning for an insert shot of a phone that there's no reason I should be there for.
00:34:20These people can handle it, but I do not want to get to the editorial, editorial and see that that's not the frame I pictured of the phone.
00:34:26That's, that's, that's definitely obsessive, but, um, it, it, I, it's how I make stuff.
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00:35:39I think ultimately what I was thinking about was what is the outcome that that achieves, right?
00:35:44Because we were talking about process.
00:35:46It's a degree of detail, focus, orientation, hypervigilance, bias toward seeing problems as potentially before they've even, yeah, we are playing, you know, anxiety is all about uncertainty.
00:36:03Yeah.
00:36:04I'm uncertain about how the future might unfold.
00:36:06So if I can think about all of the different ways that it might unfold, I will know all of the different potential catastrophes.
00:36:12You're not usually anxious about all of the ways it might go right, anxious about all of the ways that it might go wrong.
00:36:17Yeah.
00:36:18And if I can.
00:36:19But as a filmmaker who can't fall asleep at night, staring at the ceiling, obsessing about the big scene you have tomorrow, it's not healthy for mind and body,
00:36:29but it is helpful in that I've probably foreseen everything that could possibly go wrong.
00:36:33Yeah.
00:36:34Yeah.
00:36:35And I've got texts going out at two in the morning being like, did you guys da-da-da-da-dee-da-da-da-da?
00:36:40And, you know, everyone's asleep, but I'm going like, you did order the blee-blah-blah, right?
00:36:46You know, like.
00:36:47Yeah.
00:36:48I mean, it's the same for me.
00:36:49It's the same for me with this show.
00:36:50Um, that noticing Dr. Jordan B. Peterson should have a full stop after the bee.
00:36:59And, you know, I just want to make sure that it's okay.
00:37:02And did we check that we, have we got the release form that signed for the thing that's going to get the thing.
00:37:05Da-da-da-da-da-da-da.
00:37:06So what I'm thinking is lots of people who have that malady strength, uh, end up in situations where they, they can be very successful.
00:37:18So my favorite example of this is to a degree, uh, Eddie Hall.
00:37:22So he's world's strongest man, 2017, 2018, British dude, six foot three.
00:37:26By the time that he won, it's on the winner's podium.
00:37:29And he puts this trophy in the air and he says, Nana, this one's for you.
00:37:32His grandma died recently.
00:37:33And he's sort of won this title and he retires there.
00:37:35His first title and he retires, although he's worked his life to get there.
00:37:38He says, if I hadn't retired at that point, I would be dead, divorced with no relationship to my kids.
00:37:43He was 400 pounds at six foot three on so many PDs that his blood pressure was so far off the charts that we forget hypertension.
00:37:53This was like galactic tension.
00:37:55And he was working so hard with his training that him and his wife, the relationship was just completely shot.
00:38:00Uh, and his kid didn't see him.
00:38:02So everything was falling apart.
00:38:04And I think about that and I go, well, the level of obsession and attention to detail that led him to be the best in the world.
00:38:14Hmm.
00:38:15Also had these side effects that came along with it.
00:38:17Physiological ones that were second order side effects, but the first order side effects of just not paying that much attention to my wife, not paying that much attention to my child, not nurturing my relationships, not thinking about the piece inside of my own brain.
00:38:29And as far as I can see, the people that are really successful at lots of things, not everything, but at lots of things are paying an unreasonable level of attention to detail.
00:38:39Hmm.
00:38:40That is where the, I'm trying to net down.
00:38:42What is the, what's the like corn that's being grown out of this thing for you across your career.
00:38:48It's like an unreasonable level of attention to detail.
00:38:51Sounds like that in my own performance and what's going to go on and what might happen tomorrow and what did happen today and the lesson I need to learn.
00:38:58And why is that?
00:38:59Why are you, why have we decided?
00:39:01Cause I don't understand why you brought that fill light in.
00:39:03Oh, it's for the bounce off the wall.
00:39:05Right.
00:39:06Why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why?
00:39:08And yeah, that unreasonable level of attention to detail has allowed you to do all these great things.
00:39:12Yes.
00:39:13And when people look at the outcome that they want, I would love to be on a show that gets run for gazillion, guerrillion seasons and the last for nine years and then comes back and you get to do the thing.
00:39:23I would like to, I would, I would go.
00:39:25Okay.
00:39:26This stuff does come along for the ride too.
00:39:28Yeah.
00:39:29You're also going to not only in the professional life, be awake at two in the morning, texting people about the fucking phone shot from yesterday, but then it's also going to bleed over into your personal life as well.
00:39:40Yeah.
00:39:41You know, you can't switch it up.
00:39:42You can't just say, Oh, I want you to be obsessive and ruminative in this domain and not my relationships.
00:39:49No, no, no, no.
00:39:50That's a totally different.
00:39:51I should be a different person.
00:39:52I should Jekyll and Hyde, Batman and Bruce Wayne.
00:39:53Um, I'm kind of, I'm kind of fascinated by that sphere of question.
00:39:57The price that people pay in order to have the strengths that they've got.
00:40:00I don't know how people do do this with big families.
00:40:03Uh, I don't know how they do it.
00:40:07Um, uh, I don't have a family.
00:40:14I don't have children.
00:40:15I don't have a currently even have a partner.
00:40:18Uh, I, uh, you know, I, I, we, when you're doing what I do, you often will have to go away for long periods of time.
00:40:29So I, uh, I, I would love to have that stuff, but that's probably for me personally, other people are very good at managing and figuring it out.
00:40:38Obviously in Hollywood, there's plenty of people with wives and husbands and families.
00:40:42I, I, um, have yet to have that happen.
00:40:46Um, so I think personally for me, one of the costs has been just obsessively, um, being career focused and, um, it, it, it being, um, the most important thing to me, the thing I love the most, the thing I get the most gratification out of is, is creating.
00:41:05And, um, I think that the cost has probably been, um, giving watering the, the, the seeds of, of, of, of, of having, um, a family and a relationship.
00:41:15Mm. How much of that's been a conscious choice?
00:41:18You know, I'm, I know that I'm going to pay this price potentially, and I'm going to continue to focus on the career thing.
00:41:24No, it's not been a conscious choice.
00:41:25It's just been, you know, um, I do think I, uh, if I had put the level of attention and intention and focus into, um, having a relationship and a family that I put into my career, uh, I, I, I'd have a different life kingdom.
00:41:42Well, I, well, I just have a different, I'd be like, uh, Jacob in the Bible, but I, I, I, um, I have.
00:41:50Um, I, I, I, I think it's safe to say, I just kind of went all in on, um, I mean, I've had some wonderful relationships, but I, I, I have been through for the last 25 years, completely career focused.
00:42:06And when I'm not making something, I'm writing something, or when I'm not writing something, I'm trying to collaborate with someone.
00:42:13I, I, I, I, I am the most happy when I'm making stuff.
00:42:18Um, so when I'm not, I don't idle well, I don't, I don't, um, I don't sit, you know, on a beach and, uh, and, and, and just stare at the ocean well.
00:42:31Maybe for like a week.
00:42:32Yeah.
00:42:33I think about, um, people talk about developing a good work ethic, but very rarely do people talk about developing a good rest ethic.
00:42:39I would like that.
00:42:40If you got that book, I'll read it.
00:42:41I'm afraid not.
00:42:42Um, I mean, look, dude, this is, I, I get, I'm, this is part of my neuroses, but I go, I actually get anxious when I know I'm going to have a long time off.
00:42:54Yeah.
00:42:55Does work feel like safety to you?
00:42:57I just feel like I'm most myself, I'm most in my element when I'm collaborating and creating.
00:43:04Mm-hmm.
00:43:05And, uh, and when I'm not, I, um, I don't feel fully fulfilled.
00:43:10Um, even when I'm writing my own stuff, which is spending a lot of time alone with the computer, I'm not, I don't enjoy it.
00:43:17Do you want the collaboration?
00:43:18There's no collaboration.
00:43:19It's lonesome.
00:43:20It's depressing.
00:43:21Cause some days are just, I'm sure you write, you know, some days you're just like, I suck.
00:43:25Yeah.
00:43:26I suck.
00:43:27And then the next day you read it and you're like, actually, that's not good.
00:43:29I woke up, I had a better night's sleep.
00:43:31I, um, I remember this, this comment when I first started doing live stuff.
00:43:35So I just finished this live tour around Australia and New Zealand and Bali, and it was so, so sick.
00:43:40And, um, when I first started doing live three years ago, uh, someone commented with a piece of advice.
00:43:48And they said, when I'm on stage, I always have two voices that are equally loud in my head.
00:43:53One makes me Apollo and the other makes me Sisyphus one says you're amazing and you can keep going.
00:43:58And the other says you suck.
00:43:59You should quit immediately.
00:44:00And I just think it's so funny that when you have different elements of the same performance, right?
00:44:07Uh, you know, in order to say a thing, you need to write the thing first, unless you're going to ad lib it.
00:44:11And that means that some days you sit down to write and you're like, I fucking blow as a writer.
00:44:16And other days you sit down to write and you're like, I'm great as a writer, but at each different juncture,
00:44:20someone that tends to be a little bit more self-critical, someone that's got this predisposition toward hypervigilance can be like, that could be better.
00:44:27It could always be better.
00:44:28Yeah.
00:44:29And that tends itself toward a kind of ingratitude, like micro in ungratefulness each different time, because you can always see, I mean, I love that shot of the phone.
00:44:39It was great, but oh, if we just had another half hour, if we, we'd been able to get that next 120D in and we'd just been able to, you know, adapt it a little bit more.
00:44:49And, um, but this is what pushes somebody to be unreasonably detail oriented and to get to a level of quality that is so beyond.
00:44:57And the market and status and, and, and money and by design, there can only be one winner at an awards ceremony.
00:45:05There can only be one best anything right at a time.
00:45:08The market rewards someone that is going to continue to push and push.
00:45:13I don't know how people enter this business without having the mentality that they're going to go all in at it.
00:45:19Because what I tell young people who I see starting out is like, okay, but make sure you're, you're going to go a hundred percent of what you have.
00:45:26Because every, in this town, every single person around you, not every single person, there's hundreds of thousands of people here that are, that are going to work really, really, really hard.
00:45:38And they're going to have your lunch if you don't.
00:45:40Absolutely.
00:45:41If you're going to audition and you don't have it memorized and you didn't work on it as hard as you possibly could and work with your friends or work with a coach or, or in this case,
00:45:50there's so much self taping, uh, get a good lighting setup and a good camera and, and a nice backdrop.
00:45:55And, and you're just phoning it in.
00:45:57Do you know how many fucking people are going all out for that same part?
00:46:01It's basically pointless.
00:46:03You are wasting everyone's time, especially yours.
00:46:07Um, it's crazy.
00:46:10Uh, when you come across people that are, that are trying, I mean, I, I only know this profession, but it's crazy when you come across people that are doing it half-assed.
00:46:18It's like, what are you, there's just, you, you're going to get blown out of the water.
00:46:23It was very much a winner takes all thing with only one person can play the role.
00:46:27Right.
00:46:28Only one person can be this particular, the fucking AC, right?
00:46:32That's on set.
00:46:33There's only one, maybe there's not actually, but there's only one number one AC, right?
00:46:36Well, three cameras, three.
00:46:37Okay.
00:46:38You know what I mean?
00:46:39You know what I mean?
00:46:40There we go.
00:46:41There we go.
00:46:42Thank you.
00:46:43Yeah.
00:46:44You could continue to go up the stack.
00:46:45Um, typically there's only one person for each big thing, right?
00:46:47And you go, well, if that means that I'm not prepared to go all in on that one, or think
00:46:53about it in the personal standpoint, um, you're going to go out dating that person.
00:46:58Unless you go polyamory, that person is only going to be in a relationship with one person.
00:47:02And if you are not showing up in the best possible way, being attentive, thinking about
00:47:07them, replying in an orderly manner, doing stuff, being thoughtful, somebody that's just
00:47:13a bit more thoughtful or a bit more chill, like even the thoughtfulness of like, I probably
00:47:17text them a bit much today.
00:47:18Like I should, I can, I can chill out for a little bit.
00:47:20The hormones are good.
00:47:21Fucking neurochemicals are kicking it.
00:47:22Um, you will be beaten.
00:47:25Yeah.
00:47:26Right.
00:47:27There will be somebody that's prepared to be more thoughtful.
00:47:28So whatever the optimal strategy is with regards to effort, if you're not prepared to give
00:47:35it everything, the person that will just gets out ahead.
00:47:39And that means that you've lost.
00:47:40Absolutely.
00:47:41Absolutely.
00:47:42And this is, um, a career path that, uh, is all so much luck, but I often think of it
00:47:49as like, uh, it's all a complete lottery.
00:47:52I think if you're really, really preposterously good looking, you have a lot of lottery tickets.
00:47:57Mm.
00:47:58And if you're a really fucking talented actor, you have a lot of lottery tickets.
00:48:04If you're both, you have a shit ton of lottery tickets, but it's still a complete lottery because
00:48:10I know plenty of people that are wonderful actors and you don't know who they are.
00:48:13Yeah.
00:48:14And I, and plenty of people that are beautiful and good actors and you don't know who they
00:48:18are.
00:48:19Mm.
00:48:20It's, it's very, very challenging, uh, uh, career.
00:48:23And I'm very, very present to, to being lucky.
00:48:26Yeah.
00:48:27Yeah.
00:48:28How many people have you seen across your career that you just, you can't believe that
00:48:33they never made it?
00:48:34Plenty.
00:48:35Wow.
00:48:36Plenty.
00:48:37I can, I, I, I can, I, um, I have a couple of people that come right to my mind, uh, who,
00:48:41who I'm like, why have, why has their number not come up yet?
00:48:45That person is gorgeous and has blue eyes and is one of the best actors I know.
00:48:51Um, you know, they might get work here and there, but they're not a household name.
00:48:57They're not, they're not, not a lead on a show.
00:49:00Um, just go watch New York theater.
00:49:03I mean, you'll see some of the best acting and, and London, of course, you'll see some
00:49:07of the best acting you'll ever see in your lifetime.
00:49:09And some of those people don't, can't, or have yet to convert that to, uh, to TV or film.
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00:50:14How do you think people should reckon with the, because that's a kind of uncertainty that's almost outside of your control, right?
00:50:22That you can't make somebody give you a chance at something.
00:50:26You can't stack the deck in your favor as much as possible, but can understand why people become better or jaded or resentful.
00:50:33Absolutely.
00:50:34If you're giving a hundred percent and you're still not, it's of course you're going to get jaded.
00:50:38It's, it's, there's no, no one owes you anything here.
00:50:41And, and I have to remind myself that too, when I don't get stuff, you know, I, I, I still read for things when I'm, when I'm, when it's competitive and I want it.
00:50:49And, uh, I had, I had a fucking, I auditioned for something that a huge monologue.
00:50:55It was like a two page monologue.
00:50:58And just like I'm saying, cause I, I look at a lot of audition tapes from the other side of the table.
00:51:02If, if I'm not, you know how many people are going to memorize the shit out of this monologue and crush it?
00:51:06Why am I even going to waste the time if you're not going to do it?
00:51:08So for like a week, I worked on memorizing this monologue.
00:51:12I was walking the dog, memor, working on the monologue.
00:51:14I was fucking doing the dishes, looking over at the monologue.
00:51:18And I went in there, I bladed tape down and I crushed it.
00:51:21I was so proud of it.
00:51:23Didn't even get a call back.
00:51:25Didn't even, didn't even get a, hey, good job.
00:51:28Bucky did.
00:51:29And, uh, show came out and I saw the guy do it.
00:51:32And I went, I was so much fucking better than that in my egotistical mind.
00:51:38But, um, but you know, I didn't, I didn't get it, but I fucking brought it.
00:51:42I brought a hundred percent.
00:51:44Um, that doesn't mean you're going to get everything.
00:51:46Um, they didn't, they didn't want me.
00:51:47They wanted him.
00:51:48Yeah.
00:51:50I wonder whether this is one of the reasons that people have such a, this is interesting.
00:51:57This is interesting.
00:51:58I think the number one desired job of young kids is YouTuber and number two is influencer.
00:52:05Oh God.
00:52:06Is that true?
00:52:07Horrendous.
00:52:08Yeah.
00:52:09Um, kids, if you're out there, you, you don't want this smoke.
00:52:11I'm telling you this sheer amount of screen time alone will kill you.
00:52:15Um, I wonder whether one of the reasons that people like that.
00:52:18I'm aware kids don't necessarily know what they're getting themselves in for.
00:52:20One of the reasons that maybe older people might like the idea of it is that there's kind of no rejection in the world of, you can become not popular, but no one's telling you that you don't get to do the thing.
00:52:31You mean as a YouTuber influencer?
00:52:33Yeah.
00:52:34Yeah.
00:52:35If you're creating, you just a solopreneur or a small unit and you're the guy that's in front of the camera or whatever, like what's your thing?
00:52:42You can do it as much as you can send an unlimited number of two page monologues and put them on the internet.
00:52:46Yes.
00:52:47And you are the star, even if that wouldn't have been picked up by somebody else and no one, it's a permissionless world.
00:52:52That's interesting.
00:52:53There's clearly, um, uh, people weighing in on whether it works or not by how many views it's getting after a certain amount of time.
00:53:04Yeah.
00:53:05But that's not real.
00:53:06That's a sort of a soft rejection.
00:53:07Correct.
00:53:08Yes, exactly.
00:53:09That's exactly what I'm thinking.
00:53:10Yeah.
00:53:11It's so interesting because we didn't have that growing up as a thing.
00:53:14It wasn't a position.
00:53:17Well, think about, uh, some people on YouTube now are even doing sketch shows, you know, full productions.
00:53:24Like, uh, Shane Gillis, Gillian Keeves, his thing before he's now doing tires.
00:53:29Uh, that's, that was him just fucking about like, you don't need, there's no, there's a much smaller, tighter thing.
00:53:37Absolutely.
00:53:38Yeah.
00:53:39Absolutely.
00:53:40And, uh, I think there's a lot of people making a great living being whatever their niche YouTube thing is.
00:53:45I go down the rabbit hole on these people.
00:53:47And I, I, I, I've got some people that I just love to watch and I'm not even like, I've been going down the rabbit hole on like these RV, RVs, uh, you know.
00:53:56Like van life people.
00:53:57Yeah.
00:53:57Yeah.
00:53:58Recreational vehicle people that are giving tours of their vans.
00:54:01It's not a life I would ever lead.
00:54:02Although I'd love to go camping in RV.
00:54:04I would never, I don't want to live full time in RV, but I'm fascinated by these.
00:54:07I've, the algorithm has been sending me these people giving tours of RVs.
00:54:11Oh yeah.
00:54:12It's fucking.
00:54:13I love it.
00:54:14What have I been looking at recently?
00:54:15There's a, a guy that plays a role playing 1800s British war game, like a third person shooter war game online thing.
00:54:28But he dresses in a full kind of colonial era British soldier outfit in his house while he's doing it.
00:54:38And he's got a monocle on and he's got a huge fucking trumpet.
00:54:41And as he's doing the live streaming, he blows the trumpet.
00:54:44He's like, come on boys.
00:54:45Don't need to be shy.
00:54:47Let's get them.
00:54:48And he blows this.
00:54:49I don't know what his neighbors think the fuck is going on.
00:54:51So like I got into him.
00:54:53What else have I been getting into?
00:54:55You know what I'm really into now?
00:54:56What?
00:54:57I'm, they have these fucking videos of like the greatest hits of when detectives get people in the room.
00:55:04Like, like.
00:55:05Oh yes.
00:55:06Yes.
00:55:07To, to, to finally admit that they did it.
00:55:09Psychopath finally realizes that he's not, that the detective knows what's going on or whatever.
00:55:14Or like guy who murdered all these people finally comes clean.
00:55:18And the detect like, and if someone's cut the video, they've got a narrator.
00:55:22Like now detective Dunman's home will finally confront him with the.
00:55:26Yeah.
00:55:27Yeah.
00:55:28And you see their techniques.
00:55:29Cause you know, they have the camera up in the ceiling and, and all these things where
00:55:30they little by little, they move in tighter and tighter to the guy.
00:55:32That's one of the techniques I've learned.
00:55:33You know, they get closer and closer and, uh, you know, they do good cop, bad cop.
00:55:38They bring in, they switch into a woman, like all these techniques.
00:55:41Yeah.
00:55:42And you know, if you watched it for hours, it'd be so boring, but they've edited it down to like the most insane.
00:55:47It's like fucking red zone.
00:55:48It's like a strike zone or whatever it's called.
00:55:50It's, um, American football, when the football's live on a Saturday, it's only games that are in the final.
00:55:59Oh, yeah.
00:56:00And it just cuts between that.
00:56:01It's a highlight reel of the interrogation.
00:56:03This is that for interrogation, but they, they, they cut like a specific case down to the lat, like 30.
00:56:09Well, the story of the progression of, I didn't do it to, okay.
00:56:12I did it to 30 minutes.
00:56:13Yeah.
00:56:14And it's, and it's fascinating.
00:56:16Oh man.
00:56:16The algorithm knows.
00:56:17I like that.
00:56:18I, I, I do want to do something with that.
00:56:21Just creatively.
00:56:22I've been talking to a, uh, a director about, I'm really interested.
00:56:27I loved adolescence that, you know, that show with the, with the oners and everything with, with, with.
00:56:32I love that show because I thought it was so brilliant, even outside of the, uh, incredible craftsmanship of making it as, as, as a, as a, as a oner.
00:56:40But I, I really am interested in, in that, that world of the detective work and the performance of, of, uh, getting someone who's done something horrific to, to finally admit it.
00:56:53I think that's so interesting.
00:56:54I, I would be very interested.
00:56:56I can't think I was trying to think in my mind of a TV show where the detective's personal cost of hypervigilance has been played out recently.
00:57:08And I can't quite think of one.
00:57:10And the reason that comes to mind, I, I had a conversation with a guy called Amir Levine and he wrote the book attached.
00:57:16Uh, kind of broke attachment theory into the world.
00:57:20I think it's the best selling attachment book.
00:57:21And then he's just recently written a new one called secure, which is a, a, a, a revisitation and evolution on the previous one.
00:57:28One of the studies that he taught me about was they bring people into a lab who have had their attachment styles assessed in advance.
00:57:37And there's some anxious people in the room.
00:57:39There's some avoidant people in the room and then some secure people in the room.
00:57:42And partway through the conversation might be one of those ones where they don't know whether it started or not yet.
00:57:47They might be in the waiting room or whatever.
00:57:49And a computer that's in this office or whatever that they're sat in computer over the far side, just gently starts wafting smoke out of it as if it's, there's some sort of computer fire that's about to occur.
00:58:01And he said that the anxious people, the first ones to notice, but the avoidant people are the first ones out the door.
00:58:10Hmm.
00:58:11And what he was thinking about, cause he spent all of this time talking about what this is, what it's like to be an avoidant or a dismissive avoidant or a anxious person or a secure person.
00:58:21And much of what you're talking about, unless you're talking about secure attachment is here are the problems.
00:58:25Here are the challenges that you need to face.
00:58:26Here is how to overcome them.
00:58:27And he's like, well, what about the advantages?
00:58:29Cause they, they have to be advantages cause this has been selected for, right?
00:58:33Evolutionarily this has been selected for.
00:58:35So you have a degree of hypervigilance in the anxious people that's allowed them to pay attention to something that everybody else might not have noticed.
00:58:44The avoidant people are much quicker to make a decision.
00:58:48You know, the anxious, oh, should we leave?
00:58:50Is it going to upset someone?
00:58:51I'm not too, the avoidant person's like just wily coyote down the door.
00:58:54Yeah.
00:58:55And, um, what that led him to explain to me was if you were someone that's a, an EMT, uh, or if you were a, uh, a SWAT guy.
00:59:04Um, people who are avoidantly attached are able to partition off part of their brain.
00:59:12Like I don't need those emotions right now.
00:59:14I don't need you rumination.
00:59:16I don't need you worry.
00:59:17I don't need you whatever I got a job to do, or I just don't want to engage.
00:59:21And the ability to, I just don't want to engage also means that there's a person bleeding on the side of the street.
00:59:27And I just need to do my job.
00:59:28I need to be a professional here.
00:59:29That's the avoidant person.
00:59:30Correct.
00:59:31Wow.
00:59:32It's their ability to partition off little bits, uh, but they wouldn't pay the same level of attention.
00:59:38So if you were to cast, let's say a cop show in this manner, you would expect most of the guys that are the kinetic door kickers to be avoidantly attached.
00:59:48And you would expect most of the detectives that are paying an awful lot of attention to be anxiously attached because they're going to be interesting.
00:59:56So I noticed that the killer's shoes untied on one side.
00:59:59I wonder what the, that's how he took it.
01:00:01That's how he choked it.
01:00:02Whatever the fuck.
01:00:03Like that.
01:00:04And what would be fascinating to me would be, uh, looking at somebody from the role of a detective who has this unbelievable.
01:00:13I mean, you've seen this with Sherlock Holmes to a degree, Benedict Cumberbatch is replaying of that kind of, he is this unreasonably attention to detail guy in his professional life that can't switch it off in his private life.
01:00:23Yeah.
01:00:24But I think seeing what you are praised for in public, you pay for in private.
01:00:29Mm.
01:00:30How could that show up inside of a, a crime detective thing?
01:00:34Yeah.
01:00:35I think would be really cool.
01:00:36So you've got something that's so pro social and lauded bringing baddies to, to heal and, you know, catching the, catching the crims.
01:00:44Yeah.
01:00:45But then also you've got what's the, what's the same talent causing on the other side and how is this person paying for it?
01:00:52That'd be fun.
01:00:53That's interesting.
01:00:54I, I, you know, you see aspects of the detective work in the, in the interrogation room in, in, you know, almost every detective cop show or movie.
01:01:02Um, but I, I, I, I'm, I'm, I'm curious.
01:01:07I mean, this is just a side note.
01:01:08It's something I'm, I'm curious about to develop for the, for, for some project in the future is really focusing on all these techniques they, they are employing.
01:01:19Sometimes they're, they're bad techniques that they shouldn't be doing.
01:01:23They're manipulative and they get false confessions and all that kind of stuff.
01:01:26Um, but I, I, I, it's, I, I haven't seen anything that's really focused on their different strategies.
01:01:33That'd be fun.
01:01:34I think it's interesting.
01:01:35What are the, what are some of the coolest strategies that come to mind?
01:01:38Cause I, I remember seeing these.
01:01:39Well, one thing I just watched recently where this guy wasn't even speaking and he was just, just silent.
01:01:44And, um, they, these two guys were being aggressive and they were like, we know, we, we got, we know, we know what you did.
01:01:53We got, and they did have a lot of evidence that it was him.
01:01:55They just needed him to say it.
01:01:56And, um, they, they, they said, let's give the female detective a chance, a try.
01:02:04And she came in and she went 180 degrees different.
01:02:06She was like, are you cold, sweetheart?
01:02:08Let me get you a, let me get you a, uh, a blanket.
01:02:11She got him a blanket.
01:02:12She goes, are you hungry?
01:02:16And he kind of nodded and she got him food and she kind of just sat next to him.
01:02:20And little by little, he started opening up to her.
01:02:24And it was, you know, that's a, that's a subtle thing, but, uh, you know, there, and then, and then he eventually, um, confessed.
01:02:33And, uh, it was all of, all of them strategizing for how to get him to, I don't know.
01:02:39I just think that that, that's all the stuff those guys are, guys and gals are taught is, is, and then employed is really interesting to me.
01:02:45That'd be fascinating.
01:02:46One thing that they all do without fail is move closer and closer and closer as the person is getting, uh, closer to confessing.
01:02:54They, they, they, they move their physical position.
01:02:57Did they say why?
01:02:58Um, I think it's just like, uh, intimacy and, and, and, um, closeness and, um, I dunno, that's, that's what's been studied to work on people.
01:03:10Maybe create a sense of, uh, inescapableness too, that as this person is opening up a bit more, they're, they're backed into a corner, they're backed into a corner.
01:03:19I'm sure I don't really not fully know the psychology of it.
01:03:21I just know.
01:03:22But you would have a three consultant criminology people on.
01:03:25Oh, I would fully research it.
01:03:26I, I, I.
01:03:27But it would be fucking sick.
01:03:28Like, cause now you'd know all of this stuff, which would just be fun to know.
01:03:31Yeah.
01:03:32Well, you can employ it in your real life.
01:03:33Well, yeah.
01:03:34Where were you last night?
01:03:35Yeah.
01:03:36Negotiate a cheaper espresso over the counter because you got in close and tried to touch someone on the arm twice.
01:03:41Yeah.
01:03:42Yeah.
01:03:43You saw adolescence, right?
01:03:44I did.
01:03:45So that third.
01:03:46Episode with the, with the second ladies circling in the.
01:03:49Yeah.
01:03:50I mean, that was just, that's an example where it was done just brilliantly, uh, of her being, she's, she's not a detective.
01:03:56She was a psychologist, I believe.
01:03:58And, uh, but their dynamic, uh, and the kid is such extraordinary.
01:04:03They're both extraordinary actors, but that was an example of a fictional account of why I thought that was so brilliant.
01:04:08Yeah.
01:04:09Just it's all dialogue, all brilliant acting, just focused on, uh, peeling away the layers.
01:04:14I'd love to see something like that.
01:04:16Uh, more of something.
01:04:17I'm personally interested in something like that.
01:04:19Fuck.
01:04:20What was that thing with Kit Harington in it?
01:04:23Uh, the first episode, it was on Netflix.
01:04:25And then they did a French version.
01:04:27And, um, the whole thing is set inside of one of these.
01:04:30So there's been something like this made.
01:04:32Well, tell me, cause I'll watch it tonight.
01:04:33I'm gonna fight.
01:04:34Dude, it fucking rules.
01:04:35Kit Harington, detective confession series.
01:04:40Let's see if I can get it.
01:04:42A fucking criminal called criminal.
01:04:44Uh, it's on Netflix.
01:04:45Thank you.
01:04:46And there's two seasons now.
01:04:48And, um, it's one ticket sold.
01:04:50Dude, it fucking rules.
01:04:53So the whole thing is set.
01:04:55There's the, I don't think they ever leave the floor that this is on.
01:05:00They sometimes go outside for a shit coffee and then come back in.
01:05:03Um, but yeah, that was, that was really, really cool.
01:05:06I'm, um, I'm interested in what you think about you.
01:05:10The network TV is supposed to be dead thing.
01:05:12Yeah.
01:05:13Scrubs revival pulls in like 11 million.
01:05:17It did really well.
01:05:18People within the first five days.
01:05:20Yeah, they were wrong.
01:05:21What do you think that says about where audiences really are?
01:05:25I do think they, um, are still, you know, there's, there's a lot of metrics now for, for, um, for television, both broadcast and streaming.
01:05:37The first is the live viewing.
01:05:39That means you watched it when it was live.
01:05:41Then they're very interested in what the live viewing plus three days, uh, was.
01:05:46How many people, uh, DVR'd it?
01:05:48I either DVR'd it and watched it within three days or a stream.
01:05:51Uh, it was on the streaming platform.
01:05:52They watched it in three days.
01:05:53And then the next metric they're most interested in is plus seven days.
01:05:56How many people streamed it or watched the DVR they did of it, uh, within seven days.
01:06:02So all of those numbers are very important, uh, to the modern day streamers and networks.
01:06:08Um, the numbers of people watching broadcast are completely a tiny fraction of what they were back when Scrubs was on television.
01:06:18And, you know, the shows like friends were getting numbers like you can't believe.
01:06:23Um, um, I mean, I, I, I, I don't have the stats in front of me, but like the mash finale, uh, was like the, uh, you know, a large percentage of earth was watching it.
01:06:37Yeah.
01:06:38Yeah.
01:06:39Um, that's just gone in terms of a live thing other than the Superbowl, you know, and I'm sure certain soccer, uh, games.
01:06:46Yep.
01:06:47Um, it's just not a thing anymore.
01:06:48Olympics opening ceremony.
01:06:49Whatever they are.
01:06:50We all know what they are.
01:06:51They're, they're usually sports.
01:06:52Um, um, the final thing.
01:06:56Um, but the, the numbers still are there on broadcast TV for, uh, for, for certain shows.
01:07:06People do want to not survive a survivors huge.
01:07:10Um, you know, there are comedies, uh, you know, uh, uh, like Scrubs and Abbott and, uh, and for example, that, uh, are, are doing really meaningful numbers because people do still watch broadcast.
01:07:25There are plenty of people that, that, uh, they, they, they skew older.
01:07:29Yep.
01:07:30Um, obviously a younger demographic is going to stream this.
01:07:34They don't know.
01:07:35They don't know broadcast.
01:07:36They didn't grow up with it.
01:07:37I wouldn't be able to watch it.
01:07:38I don't think I have a device in my house.
01:07:40Yeah.
01:07:41There's a lot of be able to access live TV.
01:07:43Well, you could really put rabbit ears on your TV.
01:07:45And go old school.
01:07:47Yeah.
01:07:48You can, but the crazy thing about broadcast is it's in the air.
01:07:51It's, it's free.
01:07:52Snag it.
01:07:53Yeah.
01:07:54Yeah.
01:07:55Here's the cold open.
01:07:56No, uh, it's, uh, it's being broadcast to antennas that you could just put an antenna TV.
01:08:00Stay there.
01:08:01And there's plenty of people, believe it or not, that still are, are watching, uh, you know, the broadcast, um, uh, channels only.
01:08:09They don't have, they, you know, of course, uh, an older audience.
01:08:12Um, so, um, but all of those pockets of the pie, all of those slices of the pie are, are, are, are meaningful and important.
01:08:20So there's the broadcast, uh, slice, and then there's the, then there's the streaming plus three, plus seven.
01:08:25Those are, those are all people we want to, uh, to watch the show.
01:08:29A funny, interesting, that's happened.
01:08:31I think an interesting thing is fuck.
01:08:34Take three.
01:08:35An interesting thing that's happened is that a giant, really meaningful number of people went, oh shit.
01:08:44I never watched this show and went back and started the series.
01:08:48Cool.
01:08:49And, and, uh, that's really cool because although it's going to be a minute before their numbers affect the new show, because they're gonna have, they have eight and a half long.
01:08:57They got eight and a half seasons to watch.
01:08:59Yeah, it's a big run.
01:09:00But, um, but that's really cool too, because plenty of people said to themselves, oh, I'm interested in this, but I never watched it.
01:09:06So I should probably start at the beginning.
01:09:08Um, so that's been cool too, because the, one thing that's fun about the revival is if, if you're liking it and you're responding to it, like it seems a lot of people are.
01:09:18And you like these characters and you never watched the show.
01:09:21Well, guess what?
01:09:22There's eight years of how they became who they are.
01:09:24Uh, which is, which is, it's basically a massive prequel, but it wasn't.
01:09:28This is the sequel, but you've watched the sequel first.
01:09:30So go back and watch the.
01:09:31Right.
01:09:32Which if you love it is so cool.
01:09:33I would love that.
01:09:34Um, it's kind of like, you know, House of Dragons, Game of Thrones.
01:09:37Exactly.
01:09:38That's exactly what I was thinking.
01:09:39Exactly what I was thinking.
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01:10:40You know, I watched, I watched, um, uh, uh, fucking a night of, uh, a night of the kingdoms, the novella about Duncan and egg, which is the new Game of Thrones thing.
01:10:53Oh, I didn't watch it.
01:10:54Was it good?
01:10:55No, such a shame.
01:10:57I'm such a massive Game of Thrones fan.
01:11:00I really liked House of Dragons.
01:11:01I, I thought that was fucking wonderful.
01:11:03But nothing can beat that first season of Game of Thrones.
01:11:06That was just like, it was, it was, I'm not into that genre at all, at all.
01:11:10You don't need to be.
01:11:11And they got me.
01:11:12Dude.
01:11:13They got everybody.
01:11:14I mean, I was at uni.
01:11:15No, I wasn't, I wasn't at uni, but I was still in Newcastle when it was happening.
01:11:18And, um, the volume of extras that they needed with British accents in and around Ireland.
01:11:26Uh, or able to access Ireland.
01:11:29Um, was so fucking high that basically anyone I knew with a beard was being tapped up.
01:11:34Were you, were you, uh, I wasn't a beardy man at the time, unfortunately.
01:11:37Um, but we had, we had a friend who had kind of long hair, looked sort of warlocky.
01:11:42And, uh, and he went and it was, he, the, an extra in one of the scenes for the things.
01:11:46It's like, we just need people that are in the fucking British Isles to come and do the thing.
01:11:50And also it's just cool because like they don't make TV on that scale that much, um, these days.
01:11:55And as someone who loves production and loves, uh, filmmaking, the seeing, I mean, it became so fun to watch the behind the scenes after the show.
01:12:05One of the best parts.
01:12:06Because it was like, wow, how did you do that?
01:12:08I mean, I loved that aspect of it too, just to watch, you know, big, big productions.
01:12:13A movie being done once a week, a movie being released once a week.
01:12:17Yeah.
01:12:18And they were, remember the, what's the one, the, the, the big battle, uh, where he's, where's Kit Harington surrounded.
01:12:23We're really talking about a lot of Kit Harington today.
01:12:25Yeah.
01:12:26But where he's surrounded the battle of the bastards, I think it was called or whatever.
01:12:28Yeah.
01:12:29Yeah.
01:12:30Your, your, your guys are nodding.
01:12:31Yeah.
01:12:32That was just one of the most incredibly done episodes of television ever.
01:12:35And, and then, then, then you had the fun if you're into this stuff of watching how the fuck did they do that?
01:12:40Yeah.
01:12:41Yeah.
01:12:42Yeah.
01:12:43It's, uh, one of my favorite things when that was coming out, I would watch the episode and then there's a channel called emergency awesome.
01:12:48And he does, uh, breakdowns of every fight, everything.
01:12:53The guy's like been doing it for quite a while.
01:12:56It's a huge channel.
01:12:57And he would explain exactly what was going on in the episode.
01:13:01And it kind of goes on.
01:13:02I found out that, uh, spoiler alert, that Jon Snow was a Targaryen, like a full season before it, it happened on the show because he'd realized, oh, this flashback is with fucking Ned Stark and this thing.
01:13:17So he's helping, helping you get a context that you wouldn't necessarily be.
01:13:20He's reading.
01:13:21He's like the Sherlock Holmes of watching series.
01:13:23And, um, well, he does it on a lot of shows.
01:13:25Oh, he does it for fucking all sorts.
01:13:27Yeah.
01:13:28Yeah.
01:13:29Pretty much every big series that's coming out.
01:13:30He seems to be of a fantasy comes to sci-fi genre.
01:13:33Um, but one of the things that was fun now was he basically, and I realized this with game of Thrones in particular, he was using the Chekhov's gun thing as a real hack for what was going to happen in, in future episodes.
01:13:47So there was basically nothing that happened after season three, especially season four in game of Thrones that was superfluous, nothing, even though it was big and quite unwieldy.
01:14:00There was never a pumpkin reference that was done that wouldn't pay off at some point in future.
01:14:06And he would always be able to say, I know what's going to happen next week.
01:14:09This is what's going to go on because we just seen this thing happen.
01:14:11You might've noticed that they brought up that she wasn't talking much recently.
01:14:15And that's because what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what?
01:14:17I was like, this guy's.
01:14:19It's better to watch it after than before.
01:14:21I know.
01:14:22I know.
01:14:23But I got, and I did kind of ruin the series for myself.
01:14:25I did kind of ruin it, but I got so much joy out of, you know, an hour, hour and a bit of the episode, then the 20, 10 minute, 20 minute of the behind the scenes.
01:14:33Then the next day I'd go and watch emergency awesome.
01:14:35That would be another hour.
01:14:36And I was like, ah, dude, I'm getting like fucking triple my, triple my money.
01:14:39I didn't watch trailers.
01:14:40If I know I'm going to go see a movie.
01:14:42There's a lot that's revealed now.
01:14:43Yeah.
01:14:44I, I, if I'm excited, like I just went and saw the, the Ryan Gosling movie, uh, uh, Project Hail Mary, which I, I, everyone was talking about.
01:14:51I was excited.
01:14:52And I thought to myself, I'm not even gonna watch the trailer.
01:14:54Cause I, I want to go have a great experience and not know what to expect.
01:14:57I mean, I know it's an astronaut movie.
01:14:58I don't want to know anything else.
01:14:59Yeah.
01:15:00And I, that's how I, that's how I am with most.
01:15:03Uh, when I know I'm going to go to the theater, I don't watch the trailer.
01:15:06That's fun.
01:15:07I once got, um, Neely got ejected from Harry Potter and the Cursed Child.
01:15:12Uh, so me, this is, uh, February 2022 in Manhattan.
01:15:22And I went with Douglas Murray, Jordan Peterson, Michaela Peterson, Tammy Peterson, a couple of their friends.
01:15:29And it was when, uh, COVID masks were still mandatory and we were all sat in a line.
01:15:35I'd moved to America two days before.
01:15:37So I was still, I was like, it's crazy, crazy.
01:15:40It's so big.
01:15:41All of the people are crazy.
01:15:42Some of them are fat.
01:15:43Some of them are beautiful.
01:15:44It's crazy.
01:15:45And then we got to, uh, downtown Manhattan.
01:15:48We go to the show and everyone's supposed to have masks on, but you're allowed to, you can move the mask to one side.
01:15:52If you've taken a drink and obviously everyone's having refreshments doing stuff like that.
01:15:57And, um, maybe somebody had taken, there was a chagrin at the fact that Jordan and Douglas who are right coded were this theater or something like that with the, the manager S and the staff, something.
01:16:15Somebody was scrutinizing the amount of time that it was taking Tammy to pull her mask down, to take a sip of water, to then put the mask back up.
01:16:21And had come over and mentioned, or maybe she'd taken it off and taken a drink or whatever, come over and brought that up during the show.
01:16:29And, um, then I don't think the response had been super cordial though.
01:16:34It had been like, okay, like whatever you say.
01:16:36And then it happened again.
01:16:37And then someone stood at the end of our row and basically was sort of like on mask watch, watching them.
01:16:43And I could hear, I was sat next to Douglas and I could hear Douglas doing breathing exercises, trying to keep himself calm.
01:16:48He's going.
01:16:49Oh my God.
01:16:50What an anxious, my anxiety is creeping up because the thought of watching a play like that.
01:16:55Yeah.
01:16:56Well, I'm watching this while you're watching me.
01:16:58Anyway.
01:16:59The interval, the halftime interval, I walked out and I was like, I can't wait to watch this.
01:17:03So sure enough, I go through and I see, uh, Jordan and Douglas talking to the, the manager lady, the venue manager.
01:17:10And, uh, I hear Jordan doing, um, so what do you mean by mask exactly?
01:17:16And what do you mean my sip exactly?
01:17:19And, uh, sure enough, this lady was really, really pushing the limit, uh, of this.
01:17:23And we, um, I think we, we were able to stay.
01:17:26I think we stayed until the end, but in a disgruntled way.
01:17:29And that was, I was like, I've been in, I've been in America for three days and this place is like, it's just so much more, um, people are so much more prepared to call out the things that they don't want on both sides.
01:17:41You know, in the UK, the manager S would have apologized and the person that had done it would have, they would have both apologized to each other.
01:17:46It was such an insane time.
01:17:47Everyone was so on edge, you know?
01:17:49Yeah.
01:17:50That was, that was an interesting one.
01:17:51Unreal, man.
01:17:52I'm really happy for you.
01:17:53It's cool to see someone go full circle and, and really love what they do.
01:17:57You're awesome.
01:17:58Thank you.
01:17:59I, I, I really love your, your show.
01:18:00And I love, uh, when I catch, uh, lots of inspiring, uh, advice from your, from your, uh, Instagram clips.
01:18:09So I really appreciate what you do.
01:18:11Heck yeah.
01:18:12I appreciate you, man.
01:18:13Good luck.
01:18:14Let's keep in touch.
01:18:15Yeah.
01:18:16Appreciate it.
01:18:17Goodbye, everyone.
01:18:18Congratulations.
01:18:19You made it to the end of a full podcast episode.
01:18:20You are not so tick tock brain that you've completely dissolved into nothingness.
01:18:23Why not watch another one?
01:18:25Right.
01:18:27Go on.
01:18:28Press it.
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