How To Build An Online Community - Jay Clouse

Ali introduces Jay Clouse and discusses his pivot to a less growth-hacked podcast format focused on valuable conversations with people he wants to learn from. The conversation will center on creators, communities, and a new wave of people making money online through community-based business models. Jay shares his excitement about the topic based on his experience building Creator Science, a media company helping people become professional creators with a 200-person capped membership called The Lab generating around half a million dollars in annual revenue.

Jay explains his journey from a traditional teaching family background to discovering entrepreneurship in college through dormmates who had started businesses. He initially pursued software startups but realized that writing, podcasting, and video production offered more creative control than software development with its compromises. Around 2017, he began freelancing with WordPress and email copywriting while building a mastermind program, which led him to recognize the pattern of repeating advice and the opportunity to productize his knowledge into courses and other offerings.

Ali and Jay discuss how the perception that the only way to make money as a creator is by coaching other creators stems from survivorship bias—only people coaching creators are visible in the space. Jay's Lab membership includes diverse creators like Claire who teaches plant-based running and Craig who teaches high school football coaches, demonstrating that successful creators typically serve very specific, niche audiences rather than broad markets. Jay acknowledges occasional distaste for the meta nature of his business but emphasizes that the overwhelming positive results and member satisfaction justify continuing, highlighting the balance between enjoying your business model and delivering genuine value.

Jay traces the evolution of his community from a 2017 group coaching program using Slack with 120 participants to consulting on Mat Gartland and Pat Flynn's SPI Pro community using Circle. After leading the SPI community team in 2021, Jay went independent in 2022 and launched The Lab (originally called Creative Companion Club), which was rebranded to match his Creator Science brand. The community maintains a cap of 200 members and generates substantial revenue while remaining highly engaged, with Jay reflecting on how this structure differs from the incoming wave of communities that will be launched poorly and quickly abandoned.

Jay warns that while communities are the current hot trend in making money online, there will be an explosion of poorly-executed communities followed by rapid decline as people become disillusioned. He advises aspiring community builders to focus on being the one or two communities that members can't imagine leaving, given that people will eventually pare down their memberships when overwhelmed. Jay emphasizes that the key to differentiation is understanding what people actually want from communities: connection (rooted in human biology), transformation (moving from point A to point B), and identity (understanding who they are and what they care about).

Ali explains his vision for Productivity Lab not as a pure community but as a 'Peloton for productivity'—a structured environment where people commit to showing up and doing the work through facilitated weekly reviews, monthly planning sessions, and daily Zoom coworking sessions. He draws parallels to his personal trainer relationship where prepayment and scheduled commitment drive accountability, and references the London Writers' Salon free coworking sessions that significantly accelerated his book writing. The core insight is that the community becomes a tool to lower activation energy and create the commitment structure people need to execute on goals they already know they should pursue, rather than primarily teaching new information.

Jay advises Ali to avoid the common trap of making delivery mechanisms too specific on sales pages, using the example of weekly reviews that might become unsustainable after 14 months. By keeping the promise vague (helping you double your productivity) rather than listing exact features (weekly reviews every Sunday), the community retains flexibility to adapt based on what actually works. Jay emphasizes using the 'Lab' framing to signal experimentation and evolution, allowing the business to pivot as needed without feeling like they've broken promises. He references Ali's own experience with the YouTuber Academy selling annual memberships with specific commitments that created later pressure and regret, making this lesson personally relevant.

Jay recommends a 'private opening and public launch' strategy where breadcrumbs are dropped into existing content inviting early adopters site-unseen to join with an incentive, allowing experimentation without public promises. The public launch sales page should then feature video testimonials from successful members as the primary selling tool, as third-party success stories are more compelling than direct sales language. Jay explains that video testimonials feel more honest than scripted ones, and coaching people to respond off-the-cuff ('Before the Lab I..., Because the Lab now I...') creates authenticity that readers can sense. He also notes his personal tendency toward trust-building over aggressive selling, but acknowledges this might leave revenue on the table compared to more sophisticated copywriting frameworks.

Jay helps Ali think through pricing by distinguishing between content/programming-focused memberships (typically lower price, higher volume) and connection/relationship-focused ones (higher price, lower volume). He emphasizes aligning the price with what the target market can afford based on comparison points (e.g., personal trainers at $200-300/month) and the level of value being delivered. Jay suggests considering both a broad market approach ($300/year positioning as under $1/day for productivity doubling) and a narrower, more sophisticated market ($1,000/year for fewer customers), noting that higher-ticket, lower-volume businesses are generally less stressful but conflict with ambitions to reach broader audiences.

Ali identifies three target customer buckets: corporate professionals seeking work-life balance and personal growth; side hustlers with stable jobs pursuing creative projects; and entrepreneurs grinding toward freedom and financial goals. While entrepreneurs might have the highest willingness to pay, professionals and side hustlers actually have resources (his YouTuber Academy students average age 36 earning 100k+) and genuine productivity needs, especially if they can expense the membership. Jay challenges Ali to think beyond just entrepreneurs and consider the broader positioning of his brand, noting that the decision between narrow and broad markets affects everything from pricing to long-term brand perception and future product opportunities. He emphasizes that the product should reflect Ali's stated vision of broader impact rather than just revenue optimization.

Jay suggests a tiered membership approach where Ali starts with a high-ticket, high-touch version of Productivity Lab, learns what works, builds efficient systems, and then offers lower-priced tiers to broader audiences. This approach captures the best of both worlds—premium revenue from sophisticated customers while eventually scaling to mass market—without the operational chaos of trying to serve both simultaneously. Jay advocates for Ali's 'barbell approach' of free content (books, YouTube) plus high-ticket paid products, noting this aligns with his broader vision and avoids the mid-tier trap of low revenue with high operational overhead. He emphasizes intellectual honesty: if choosing high-ticket, ensure a clear plan for providing free value to broader audiences that subsidizes the paid premium experience.

Jay discusses the difference between relationship-focused communities (where slow member integration is crucial for connection) and content/programming-focused ones (where launch scale matters less). He emphasizes that the most critical factor is not size but the quality of the onboarding experience, particularly how new members are welcomed and whether their introductions are responded to with genuine engagement. Jay recommends prioritizing an exceptionally designed onboarding experience—where every moment of peak anxiety after purchase is met with helpful guidance—rather than worrying about exact member counts. He notes that communities fail most often not from lack of features but from failing to deliver on the welcoming experience when new members take the vulnerable step of introducing themselves.

Jay details his comprehensive onboarding approach: automated scheduling link for one-on-one calls (possible at high price points), walkthrough web page with expectations, Circle community invite link triggering profile completion, onboarding course showing engagement progress, welcome email series, and direct message from the founder. Each step answers the critical question 'now what?' that new members ask repeatedly. Jay emphasizes this onboarding is designed around the gym experience—greeting at the door, showing around the space, making necessary information clear, and introducing you to someone. For larger-scale communities, he suggests creating peer-to-peer onboarding by incentivizing existing members to welcome new ones, potentially testing models like Clubhouse did with one-on-one new user calls conducted by community members.

A critical failure point is the 'introduce yourself' space where new members take a vulnerable step but receive no responses, creating an unwelcoming first impression that often leads to abandonment. Communities that successfully prioritize welcoming behaviors—with team members and existing members responding quickly to introductions—create immediate positive momentum and belonging. Jay emphasizes that timely, helpful responses matter more than total time spent; being constantly aware of activity to provide quick assistance is the differentiator. He also warns against over-gamification (badges, points, challenges) which can create busy work misaligned with actual member goals, especially for time-constrained entrepreneurs and creators who need genuine value, not busywork.

Jay strongly advocates for launching with the absolute minimum number of spaces, capturing feature requests and using voting mechanisms to identify which have real demand before creating them. Multiple empty spaces create overwhelming choices and perceived low engagement; expanding slowly creates the perception of growth and improvement. The spaces should be kept minimal until critical member density exists for each one, and leadership should identify champions (ideally the person who suggested it) to drive initial conversation. For content-heavy spaces, Jay notes that recording sessions creates library value only if organized with future way-finding in mind—eventually enough content can power personalized onboarding pathways where new members answer questions and get routed to relevant content series.

Jay explains that recurring value (the foundation of sustainable memberships) comes from ongoing programming like monthly workshops, not one-time courses that members complete and move on from. However, more frequent events can paradoxically reduce attendance by making each event feel less special; his annual town hall generates the highest attendance specifically because of its rarity and the signal that 'if you attend anything, attend this.' The balance is finding the right frequency where events feel valuable and scarce without creating overwhelming choice. Jay's experience of trying to increase office hours actually reduced engagement because members rationalized skipping individual sessions, knowing another would follow soon. Recording and archiving sessions creates assets only if accompanied by thoughtful organization and way-finding for future members.

When considering consolidating Ali's YouTuber Academy and Productivity Lab into one Circle with multiple permission tiers, Jay reveals practical technical limitations: banners appear to all permission levels, member directories expose contact info across tiers, and joinable interest groups can't be restricted to specific tiers. These complications can undermine the premium experience for high-ticket members, leading Jay to separate spaces entirely rather than maintain multiple permission levels within one community. He recommends either giving people full access to everything or creating separate Circle instances, as the experience degradation from partial access isn't worth the administrative convenience of consolidation. The decision depends on whether Ali values consolidation convenience or optimal member experience for each tier.

Jay emphasizes that over-indexing on an exceptional first experience after signup provides months of goodwill and patience as the community develops. A magical first experience creates assumption that the rest will be equally great, providing coverage to figure out systems and make mid-course corrections. For people without large audiences starting their first community, Jay advises needing just five people—reaching out directly to people who would genuinely benefit creates a foundation where live programming and real-time connections can develop strong relationships. Slow growth through word-of-mouth from satisfied early members builds better culture, retention, and integration than rapid growth, ultimately creating more sustainable communities with stronger member bonds and natural advocacy.