00:00:00What have you learned about the language of masculine and feminine is not one that I am
00:00:07super familiar with and I think maybe part of it is that there's a good amount of shame
00:00:11attached to that as you suggested.
00:00:17It's cool to say attuned, connected, dropped in, aware, transcending including like Wilberian
00:00:26language type stuff as a guy.
00:00:28That still feels, it's the same as Joe's vulnerability definition, right?
00:00:32It still feels like kind of strong, but to say, "Oh, I need to embrace my feminine
00:00:37energy," go fuck yourself, man.
00:00:39My irrationality.
00:00:40That's a big one.
00:00:41Irrational.
00:00:42Yeah.
00:00:43I mean, this is the critique that men have of their wives and girlfriends, "She's so irrational."
00:00:48We are irrational.
00:00:49I think this is one of the big tricks that men play on themselves as they pretend that
00:00:52the women in their lives and they project all of the irrationality onto them.
00:00:55How irrational is it to try to get more and more and more money and more and more status
00:00:58past a certain point?
00:00:59That is hyper irrational.
00:01:01To what end are you-- You have proved to yourself that the thing
00:01:03that you are attaining is not the thing that makes you happy and yet you're still trying
00:01:07to attain more of it.
00:01:08Deeply irrational.
00:01:09Well done, dude.
00:01:10Yeah.
00:01:11Super, super fucking clever.
00:01:12So those pieces, feminine, irrational, singing, dancing, flowing, enjoying one's body, right?
00:01:22I think even from what I hear and I've experienced with myself, part of what men get out of their
00:01:27sexual relationships is many times they're able to be with someone that is more capable
00:01:31of pleasure than they are and they're able to vicariously participate in the pleasure
00:01:36and they're making it happen and that's good enough for them.
00:01:39Now they're not experiencing it at the same full body level that their partner is perhaps
00:01:44capable, but they're close to it.
00:01:46Well think about that if you want to really fucking point the finger at guys.
00:01:50How many guys during sex treat sex as another business that they need to successfully exit?
00:01:57Well, if I can go through this particular sequence of steps and in the past I've managed
00:02:02to build and exit a similar business in this particular way, so I've got a blueprint and
00:02:08I've got a few tricks up my sleeve that I can deploy in this way.
00:02:12It's like, "Oh, not only did you turn your video game Hades 2 into a business that you
00:02:17had to optimize, but you turned this thing which is supposed to be like loving presents
00:02:24into a business that you're supposed to build and exit."
00:02:28And what I've seen in myself that I believe could be a pattern at least with some men is
00:02:33the part of what drove early Charisma on Command and early Charlie was deep people pleasing
00:02:41that was particularly directed at women.
00:02:43Like I was okay if some of the guys didn't like me, but I desperately, desperately wanted
00:02:47women to like me and was willing to shape my habits, my exercise routine, everything to
00:02:53bring in as much female attention as I could.
00:02:57And I know that experience in sex of trying to make it good for the other person at a high
00:03:03level which I didn't realize.
00:03:05You do that for long enough, you just want to get out of there.
00:03:08I'm tired of just trying to make this other person happy and it can create, you don't realize
00:03:13it or I didn't realize it, shadow frustrations, shadow resentments, shadow things because
00:03:18you don't know, and I've heard you talk about this, you're so obsessed with meaning that
00:03:22you don't know how to access pleasure.
00:03:24Yeah, that's, I mean, the Frankel's inverse law I think is so fucking prevalent, dude.
00:03:31That's another one that's robust.
00:03:32It's a little bit harder for people to grasp and it took a real long time for me to look
00:03:35at.
00:03:36But yeah, if pleasure doesn't come easily to you, you say that pleasure is basically for
00:03:41suckers and you focus on meaning, it's like, I will grind set my way through life because
00:03:47the slow accumulation of progress towards something which is supposed to be a well-meaning goal
00:03:56is kind of more reliable actually, I think, to a lot of men, it's like, it's more objective.
00:04:06It's like, huh, I see where I was on graph yesterday versus today.
00:04:11Again, it's forward projected, the outcome is the meaning in many ways, like, I'm fighting
00:04:16for the freedom of my country, it's this, I know what I'm doing, I'm going to break it
00:04:20into smaller steps, we're going to have these little battles on the way, this is persistent
00:04:24and clean and I'm directed at that thing.
00:04:27Limited chaos, limited uncertainty.
00:04:28Pleasure is right now, it's right now.
00:04:30Right now I could be left, right now I could be right, I'm going to follow this flow and
00:04:34it doesn't provide any long-term guarantees, context or anything, it's gone the next moment.
00:04:40And so it's this obsession with the masculine thread, I think, in many ways of future orientation
00:04:45and driving in towards something rather than can I just be present and understand that I
00:04:50can't control it, it's going to leave and that's okay.
00:04:52Two examples from my life of your Hades II thing, George Mack's 30th birthday in Miami
00:04:58last year, we were playing foot tennis over a net and we were playing this game and I realized
00:05:07that it was competitive but not very beautiful and I said, okay, well why don't we change
00:05:13it to be, even though we're on opposite sides of the net, we'll be part of a team and the
00:05:19goal is to have like the fanciest tricks, like two of the guys are ex-champion freestyle footballers
00:05:25but neither of them were using their skills, both of them were trying to win the game.
00:05:28I'm like, I don't want to see who can do this, I want to hand the ball off to the guy that
00:05:34can do three round the worlds in a row and like watch him do something and go fucking
00:05:38sick dude and then watch him pass it across the net.
00:05:41So he did that and as soon as I said it, one of the guys was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, and
00:05:45then we can like count how many we do and that can be, I'm like, no, I'm not even doing the
00:05:49thing again.
00:05:50You're reverse engineering it and the second time, it seems to happen around nets I suppose,
00:05:55the second time I was playing pickleball, a co-ed game with this girl who was 21 and Austin,
00:06:03Texas, me and her versus another guy and girl and it's a one-one on games going into best
00:06:11of the final game and we're like, we've done the little thing where you tap paddles over
00:06:15the top of the net and we turn around and we're walking back to the baseline and I'm like,
00:06:18okay, so we need to remember that like when he comes up to the net, he's really bad on
00:06:20his backhand so we can force that in but we need to play into the kitchen, the dinks need
00:06:23to be a little bit wider and we've got to do this and like, look, I'm loving yourselves
00:06:26but we can go with being a little bit deeper in this.
00:06:28She turns to me and she goes, yeah, let's not forget to have fun.
00:06:34I was like, yeah, yeah, very good and that moment of, I can just enjoy what's happening
00:06:44right now.
00:06:45Sure, there are times if you're a neurosurgeon, probably the in-moment enjoyment of what you're
00:06:52doing, that's not the time for it and this is where I think the definition of success
00:07:00that I mentioned earlier on is a really important piece.
00:07:06You can go through life trying to optimize for maximum outcomes, like maximum objective
00:07:11success.
00:07:12Like other people can see it, I can touch it, feel it, put it in a photo album or a bank
00:07:16account or a follower number or whatever online but you will peer over the present moment's
00:07:22shoulder a lot looking for what's coming next, the hyper vigilance will cause you to never
00:07:27really have your mind rest where your feet are.
00:07:30I'm seeing this with my live shows, I'm on tour at the moment playing Regent Theatre this
00:07:34Saturday in LA and I can go out on stage and do my show at like as close to perfect as I
00:07:43can get and never be there, I'm not there, I'm not at the show and in some ways maybe
00:07:51that's part of a flow state but I think even within like the flow stateness, like when you
00:07:56lose yourself in it, you're not fully like, this rules, like this fucking rules.
00:08:04So you have to, I've found for me there are moments where in the set I can pause and be
00:08:10like, for just like two seconds, I'm like, fuck, I'm there and when I look back, this
00:08:16is how I kind of know that it's working at least a little bit, this is super white belt,
00:08:20like fresh clay shit but that's what I remember.
00:08:24I don't remember delivering the lines, I don't necessarily even remember the laughs or I remember
00:08:29incidents where they break the pattern, so the sound went out in New York and I was working
00:08:34with just the stage wedges pointing at me, bouncing them off the back wall to 1,500 people
00:08:39while they tried to fix the sound.
00:08:41So I had to like freestyle some bullshit on stage and I remember that and that was cool
00:08:46but the only other bits that I remember are where I've gone like, and scene inside of my
00:08:51own mind and gone, here I am, I'm walking back to the baseline and we're about to have fun,
00:08:57we're playing foot tennis and we're going to try and make it beautiful and I get the sense,
00:09:02this is where the success thing comes in, that I don't know if this is true, maybe it gets
00:09:07you from 100% of performance to 150 or 101 or maybe it gets you to 95 or even 90 but regardless
00:09:18of that plane of success, outcome-based stuff, it's like how much more presence and how much
00:09:25more joy and awareness have you got of what's going on and ultimately why are you doing these
00:09:31things?
00:09:32Presumably you're trying to achieve success to create some sort of an emotional state that
00:09:36is sufficiently enjoyable for it to be worthwhile or else why would you be doing it?
00:09:42Even if you ask the why question enough times, it ends up being like, because it feels good,
00:09:46it's like why do you need money to get the house, to get the car, to get the girl, because
00:09:50it makes me feel nice and enough and you're like, well, what if you could access that more
00:09:54directly by just going, fuck, I'm here, yeah, I'm here, I'm fucking here, like holy shit
00:10:05we're alive, yeah, that fucking rules, like you know what I mean?
00:10:11That's it, that's it, yeah.
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