No One is Ready for This Coming War - Navy SEAL Andy Stumpf

English
CChris Williamson
정신 건강경영/리더십결혼/가정생활운동/피트니스

Transcript

00:00:00I'm gonna play a little trick for the first time ever in this studio to make you feel
00:00:04a little bit more at home.
00:00:05So you're a man who operated largely in the dark.
00:00:09When you are doing raids, when you would have been operating, I imagine some stuff would
00:00:14have been by day, but other stuff would have been by night.
00:00:16Unless there was an extremely compelling reason to do so exclusively at night.
00:00:20Oh, nice.
00:00:21Here we go.
00:00:22Transitioning.
00:00:23Evening.
00:00:24And now we're in a blood moon.
00:00:26We usually didn't go out at full moon.
00:00:28Oh, okay.
00:00:29Okay.
00:00:30Because there's too much visibility.
00:00:31Illumination.
00:00:32So, you know, even though you can see at night with night vision goggles, we constantly were
00:00:36looking at the illumination, the external illumination, because at some point people can almost see
00:00:40you as well as you can see them with the technological advantage.
00:00:45So we would avoid the high illumination nights and obviously aviators and things that fly
00:00:48that could be backlit against those, they try to avoid it as well.
00:00:52What are you surprised by with what's happening with warfare over the last few years?
00:00:57Like I can't work out whether technology is making things more humane or more dangerous.
00:01:02I think an equal measure of both.
00:01:03I've had a lot of conversations about this with guys during the time period that I served.
00:01:08I'd never for a single second thought about the danger of drone warfare.
00:01:13And I don't mean, drones to us was predators or reapers or overhead surveillance platforms
00:01:18that had great, you know, sensor paws and they could pipe stuff down and you can have
00:01:22the ability to look at what they could see.
00:01:23It was great for situational awareness.
00:01:26I never once was concerned about somebody essentially ordering a drone on the internet.
00:01:31Not that that's how it's being built in or made in Ukraine, specifically in Iran has some
00:01:35smaller ones as well.
00:01:37But having that be a kinetic option on the battlefield, didn't think about it a single
00:01:42time.
00:01:43And I am glad that I am not a part of that because I mean, I have an internet connection
00:01:47just like anybody else.
00:01:48And I don't go searching for those videos, but sometimes they find you and people running
00:01:53away from basically a DJI drone that detonates, a hard pass, the hardest of passes being involved
00:02:02in that.
00:02:03I read that field medics are not getting the same sort of trauma training that they used
00:02:09to because the kind of injuries that soldiers are getting on the battlefield are totally
00:02:13different now.
00:02:15Well, towards the tail end of Afghanistan and Iraq, it was very IED heavy.
00:02:22So it would be explosive wounds, which are really gnarly.
00:02:27Not that any kind of wound is particularly great, but it just tears things to pieces.
00:02:33And most of the stuff I'm seeing with the drone warfare is kind of the same.
00:02:36It's explosive base.
00:02:38So maybe, I don't know.
00:02:39I'm not sure.
00:02:40It might be more aggressive.
00:02:41It might be able to be more powerful.
00:02:43I don't know.
00:02:44But yeah.
00:02:45Well, what have you been surprised by?
00:02:47Would you have been able to predict the direction that warfare was going to go in?
00:02:51No, because at the same time, let's take Ukraine as an example.
00:02:54At the same time that they're at the cutting edge of what's going on with electronics,
00:02:58there are videos of guys running through trenches, fighting at distances between you and I. Just
00:03:04putting AKs around a corner, which by the way, I'm kind of a fan of clearing a corner that
00:03:08way.
00:03:09Like, hello, is anybody here?
00:03:12Not advisable, honestly.
00:03:14Maybe like P...
00:03:15A high risk strategy.
00:03:16It is controversial.
00:03:17I'm not here to tell anybody how to party.
00:03:20So you do you.
00:03:21But I mean, so we're talking back to World War I and World War II, but at the same time,
00:03:25the leading edge of electronics in the same battle space.
00:03:29What?
00:03:30So it's this blend of innovation and evolution and then humans getting it on like eye to eye.
00:03:37Do you think we're overhyping AI in warfare?
00:03:39Because each technological development is basically touted as the end of one era and the beginning
00:03:44of something different.
00:03:46I don't know.
00:03:47The way it's been described to me is that there's phases that AI is coming in.
00:03:52Right now there's a human in the loop, meaning a human in making the final decision may be
00:03:56assisted by AI.
00:03:58Then there's human on the loop, meaning kind of just over watching the AI.
00:04:05And then the phase that I think terrifies everybody is human out of the loop.
00:04:09And I think that's where a lot of the stuff when it came to mix clot isn't anthropic.
00:04:14I think that I want to believe that they stood their ground and again, I only have information
00:04:20based off what I could consume on the internet, which take all that with a grain of salt.
00:04:24But it seems like they stood their ground morally from a intelligence perspective or the ability
00:04:29for mass surveillance.
00:04:31And then getting to that point where humans being off the loop, because if we take humans
00:04:35off the loop, I don't know how you combat that as an adversary without doing exactly
00:04:40the same thing.
00:04:41Because if it can think and make decisions faster than any human, that's any of those
00:04:44earlier phases, then you're already at a tactical disadvantage.
00:04:48And then we end up working for robots for our daily water ration.
00:04:52And I don't think that's great.
00:04:53I don't want Terminator to become a documentary, which we might be on that trajectory.
00:04:58Yeah.
00:04:59I, uh, coming from a SEAL background, how do you feel about AI basically being involved
00:05:03in life and death decisions for operators?
00:05:07I don't know how it would be at the level that we operated at, I mean, broadly to speak
00:05:12broadly.
00:05:13And again, I am dated, so I don't know exactly how they are interfacing AI right now.
00:05:17The job was to, at some point, a lot of other entities would find, fix, locate an individual,
00:05:25fix them in a location.
00:05:27And our job was to get to that location and then finish.
00:05:30And that doesn't mean kill.
00:05:31Sometimes it does.
00:05:32It largely depends on the actions that the individual would take, but solve the problem,
00:05:36which means cross the threshold of the door somewhere.
00:05:39I don't know how AI does that for you.
00:05:42I think AI can do a lot of stuff, especially in the electronic spectrum.
00:05:46Um, I mean, I don't know.
00:05:48I mean, I guess you could, you know, those Raytheon dogs or whatever they are, the robotic
00:05:52types.
00:05:53I mean, maybe it gets to that level and maybe that removes the operator from that, or they're
00:05:58controlling him like the drone operators are now, but I don't think it's at that level yet.
00:06:02So I think it helps more in the planning and analysis process than anything.
00:06:07But as long as there are people still crossing thresholds of doors, I don't know how much
00:06:11impact AI is going to have.
00:06:12Could choosing to cross the threshold of that door or not, or the time to do it or not, and
00:06:17targeting and planning, the fact that that's done by AI now puts operators at the mercy
00:06:23of the decisions that maybe humans weren't involved in?
00:06:26It'll never make the decision as the go-no-go criteria.
00:06:30It will spit, like intelligence, the intelligence community can present packages and you can,
00:06:38you know, in your mission planning process, you are looking at every phase of the operation.
00:06:41You're planning mostly on contingencies, but you're looking at all of those things.
00:06:45The go-no-go is not based on an intelligence package.
00:06:50It's based on essentially the ground force commander saying this meets the criteria.
00:06:55Now there are exceptions to that.
00:06:57I would say, let's say if you are looking for somebody and there is a trigger, a cell
00:07:02phone pops up on a network and you've been looking for that thing.
00:07:05Like that's like, Hey, we might need to go like right now.
00:07:09But other than that, the decision is going to be based off when you think it is best suited
00:07:13for you and least suited for the person that you're going after.
00:07:18Tell me you saw this ghost moment thing.
00:07:20Oh, you mean how we can find heartbeats from space?
00:07:23Yes.
00:07:24Some other missing hikers would have appreciated if that got used for them as well too.
00:07:28You know, this is the wildest shit.
00:07:30Yeah.
00:07:31But that's because you found it on the internet.
00:07:33I saw Bigfoot on the internet one time too.
00:07:35That doesn't mean it's real.
00:07:36You don't think that this is what they did?
00:07:38No.
00:07:39Wow.
00:07:40Okay.
00:07:41No.
00:07:42Does it sound awesome?
00:07:43Yes.
00:07:44Would it, do I want that tech to exist?
00:07:45Well, now was it from space or was it supposedly from an aircraft?
00:07:47Supposedly from an aircraft.
00:07:49I do not want to tip my hand again, I am very dated, but I don't want to take my hand on
00:07:53any of the, like to me it is essential to maintain the TTPs tactics, techniques and procedures.
00:08:00There are ways and means that I think aviators have to identify their location that would
00:08:09be picked up by aircraft.
00:08:10And probably the higher you are, the better you would have for line of sight and things
00:08:13like that.
00:08:16Do I think it's capable of doing it at a heartbeat?
00:08:18Maybe but I don't think we're there yet.
00:08:20I really don't.
00:08:21There are other less complex ways to do that.
00:08:24You mean instead of quantum electrodynamics fixed to the front of an Apache helicopter
00:08:29detecting a heartbeat and getting rid of all of the gerbils and dogs and enemies that are
00:08:33out there zeroing in on this one guy from 40 miles away to pick him up and extract him?
00:08:37So when the episode comes out, can you just dub me saying what you just said?
00:08:41Because yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.
00:08:44I don't know why you think that this is unrealistic.
00:08:46This is just fun.
00:08:47Here's the thing.
00:08:48We don't want stuff like that to be true, but can you imagine how pissed people would
00:08:54be who had lost family members in the back in like back country and technology like this
00:08:58existed and we didn't use it for our own people because we were trying to pretend.
00:09:04We wanted to wait for this one guy, what's he called?
00:09:06Like dude 44 bravo or something.
00:09:08What was his code name?
00:09:09I don't know.
00:09:10Dude 45 bravo.
00:09:11That was too good of a code name to be honest or a call sign.
00:09:14Most of them you'll notice they are from mistakes or things that the person who the call sign
00:09:22is associated with are not proud of, which is exactly why they need to be what they are.
00:09:26Like if you make a galactic mistake in training and they can associate one word to that, that's
00:09:29what you're known for for the rest of your military.
00:09:31What was yours?
00:09:32No, it's only aviator wise.
00:09:33Okay.
00:09:34Okay.
00:09:35Okay.
00:09:36I was just Andy.
00:09:37Okay.
00:09:38You're fucking lame.
00:09:39Super lame.
00:09:40What are some of the most stupid ones that you've heard?
00:09:41Oh God, you'll hear people you know when they're trying to make them up because most of the
00:09:46time this is involving alcohol to be like, oh yeah, yeah, my call sign was bone crush.
00:09:50I'm like, you're 142 pounds soaking wet, shut the fuck up.
00:09:54Stuff like that.
00:09:55You know what I mean?
00:09:56Like, you know, Reaper or just like, take it easy, dude, take it easy.
00:09:59You know?
00:10:00So you did, you think that this ghost murmur thing, at least the explanation of it's bullshit
00:10:04and the way that they managed to find this guy in the middle of the desert was something
00:10:07a little bit more.
00:10:08I think there are easier ways to do it.
00:10:10Okay.
00:10:11Because when, when pilots eject, they sound like they're ejecting with no tools.
00:10:16So part, you know, there's entire department, like the aviators don't maintenance the aircraft
00:10:22right there.
00:10:23So there's people making sure that the aircraft is good to go.
00:10:24There's people making sure that survival equipment is good to go.
00:10:27All of those things.
00:10:28So when you, first off, I've never punched out of an aircraft.
00:10:30I've talked to some people who have, it seems to be a spicy ride.
00:10:34How so?
00:10:35Well, I had a guy on my show who ejected at about three knots under the speed of sound
00:10:39about so, and I might be, I might be getting this exact detail incorrect, but he was doing
00:10:48a maneuver and was nose down in a Hornet looking at the Atlantic ocean, rushing up and punched
00:10:55out.
00:10:56And it basically, how did he describe it?
00:10:59Took all of the bones in his body that weren't broken and did the opposite of that.
00:11:03And the only reason he's actually alive is because the water was so cold.
00:11:06He was in the hospital for months.
00:11:09Keegan Gill is his name.
00:11:10Why would the cold water help?
00:11:12Because it shunts your blood vessels.
00:11:14He was going to bleed out otherwise.
00:11:16Hang on.
00:11:17So the force of ejecting?
00:11:20A few knots under the speed of sound.
00:11:23Because the air that was, that immediately slammed into, okay, so it wasn't the force
00:11:27of the ejection.
00:11:28It was the...
00:11:29I don't think that feels good either.
00:11:30I was going to say, because people, people can get concussed, I think, just by doing that.
00:11:34Oh, I think if you do two, you're done.
00:11:36I think they'd medically retire you if you get two ejection.
00:11:40It'll shorten your vertebrae.
00:11:41I mean, it's, I think...
00:11:42Dude, I used to be 5'11", what's for now?
00:11:44I think it goes zero to double digit Gs like that.
00:11:49And so, yeah, he was, and he was flying.
00:11:52That was a real one, two punch.
00:11:54Yeah.
00:11:55The jab was the ejection.
00:11:57He basically said he almost got liquefied on departure from the aircraft.
00:12:03And I'm like, okay.
00:12:06Yeah.
00:12:07And then his aircraft, aircraft just vaporized when it hit the ground.
00:12:11Yep.
00:12:12Well, water.
00:12:13Yeah.
00:12:14Well, the water.
00:12:15There happened to be, I believe it was a Coast Guard vessel nearby that his, he was flying
00:12:18with his boss.
00:12:19They were doing like some early air combat maneuvers and he literally said, he's like,
00:12:23I initiated a maneuver outside of the envelope that I should have put the aircraft into a
00:12:29position where it was not going to recover and can you imagine that visual?
00:12:34So he was probably like 600 miles an hour.
00:12:38And he said a second and a half from impact.
00:12:40Can you imagine that visual coming up here?
00:12:42Yeah.
00:12:43And then if you missed the little ejection, he didn't take the safety out.
00:12:51Yeah.
00:12:52Yeah.
00:12:53No, thank you.
00:12:54Hard pass.
00:12:55Wow.
00:12:56But when they go out, not in that situation, you have, you have tools with you.
00:12:58And so the ejection seat itself has some stuff that comes with it.
00:13:01Like a little life raft, but for existing in a...
00:13:04For sure.
00:13:05You're going to have a fire probably, you're going to have a radio, you might have a beacon
00:13:09type system.
00:13:10Maybe some food.
00:13:11Probably.
00:13:12Yeah.
00:13:13It's not going to be awesome.
00:13:15And people forget that aviators, so that we go to the same school, the basics of your school
00:13:19that aviators go to.
00:13:20They're specialists.
00:13:21That guy was a weapons systems officer.
00:13:22So he was in the back seat of an F-15, I believe.
00:13:24So he wasn't flying.
00:13:25And I actually don't even know if they're pilots.
00:13:28My guess would be that they're not.
00:13:30So the guy up front is completely responsible for manipulating the controls.
00:13:33I don't even know if they have controls in the back actually.
00:13:35I've never been around an F-15 cockpit.
00:13:38So he's doing all the weapons stuff.
00:13:39Their world is very high off the ground.
00:13:42And so I've done a backseat ride in an F-18 and it was, I'm like, this is ridiculously
00:13:48uncomfortable.
00:13:49Like my head was bouncing off the canopy.
00:13:51Was sick for about two days, felt nauseous because of the Gs we were pulling.
00:13:55But then earlier in my career, I went to sear school and I was paired up with an F-18 pilot.
00:14:01And you want to talk about a duck out of water.
00:14:03Like how do you read this topographical map?
00:14:05Like how do you, you know, now to me, I'm like, oh yeah, but just will celestially navigate
00:14:09or this is East.
00:14:10And we're just going to do that.
00:14:11And they're like, where's my airplane?
00:14:14It's the complete inverse.
00:14:15Like if you were to throw your average special operations dude in an F-15, they'd be like,
00:14:20oh my God.
00:14:21So just imagine the reverse of that when these people punch out and now they're on the ground
00:14:25and supposed to be in three dimensions and now in two dimensions.
00:14:28Yeah.
00:14:29And it's, it's real, you know, you could maybe see you in your sensors, people looking for
00:14:33you trying to shoot at you at 25,000 feet and now you're at 250 feet and those same people
00:14:39are down there and they're looking for you.
00:14:40I don't know if anybody got that close to him, but I would like to believe that tech exists.
00:14:45I think that's a far stretch.
00:14:47Probable.
00:14:48I don't, well possible, not probable.
00:14:50Yeah.
00:14:51It's crazy to think that these guys that have been, will they have training to be able to
00:14:56evade?
00:14:57Limited.
00:14:58So, like I said, we will, we go to the same school.
00:15:01It's about a week of in classroom stuff.
00:15:03And a lot of it, at least when I went through was based off of Vietnam, a lot of studying
00:15:07the Hanoi Hilton and the POWs there and the, you know, the tap codes that they, they created
00:15:13an alphabet system that they would teach each other through doing it.
00:15:16And it was a five by five and a lot of it is what to expect if you're captured, how
00:15:22you're going to be questioned, you need to, you know, stay, you're supposed to do the best
00:15:25that you can to stay inside of the boundaries of releasing particular information.
00:15:30But the reality is with enough pain, people are, they're going to break, you know.
00:15:36And then you go out to, the one I went to is in Warner Springs, which is in East San Diego
00:15:40by not very far.
00:15:41The one you went to?
00:15:42The Sierra school, survival, escape, resistance, and evasion.
00:15:46You go out to the, and there was, this was aviators and largely people who might find
00:15:53themselves on the ground.
00:15:54So special operations personnel, anybody that might find themselves on the ground in like
00:15:57a theater of war.
00:15:59I don't think you would need to send like traditional Navy people who are going to be on a vessel
00:16:03to Sierra school very unlikely, but that would be, that'd be a rough day if they ended up
00:16:07getting rolled up.
00:16:08I don't know.
00:16:09You're like, wow.
00:16:10They swam out here and took you out of your bed.
00:16:11Really far from home.
00:16:12Totally.
00:16:13Yeah.
00:16:14God, that would suck.
00:16:15That's cool.
00:16:16But you know, you got to play the odds on that one.
00:16:18So it was a couple of days of group navigation.
00:16:23And then they, they start off a simulation where now you're on E&E, escape and evasion,
00:16:28and you're paired up and you were trying to evade an enemy force that is looking for you.
00:16:32Probably very similar in concept to Iran.
00:16:35And then everybody eventually gets caught because you spend about two and a half days in slappy
00:16:39camp where they slap you around and they introduce you to being, I don't know if they would say
00:16:45interrogated, but it's essentially what it is.
00:16:48And you're in this little, you know, it's just, it looks like dog kennels that human beings
00:16:51are in, you know, and they're way too small to be in there.
00:16:55So you can't find a comfortable position.
00:16:56There's music playing all the time.
00:16:57It must be very hard for you to get comfortable with the erection that you heard.
00:17:01Just stay hard.
00:17:02You know what I mean?
00:17:04Just the whole way through.
00:17:05That's that's actually a great way to warn the terrorists off you.
00:17:08Like we can't go in, don't go in kennel number five, like he's just permanently erect.
00:17:13That's the problem is some people, they let it go.
00:17:15The key is, go hard state.
00:17:17Always got to be honest.
00:17:19I mean, I've, if I put myself on the other side of that coin, I'd be like, just leave
00:17:22that dude alone.
00:17:23Yeah.
00:17:24Clearly there's some psychopathy there.
00:17:25I don't know why.
00:17:26I'm terrified of him.
00:17:27You're doing right.
00:17:28But it's a couple of days.
00:17:30And then those people go back to, if you're an aviator, your job is to aviate.
00:17:33And so they're going to go back and master that craft.
00:17:36And I don't think...
00:17:37Don't keep on top of the handguns.
00:17:38Probably not.
00:17:40I don't know what like level of minimum training that they are required to do.
00:17:43It's probably currency at best competence in currency or not the same thing, but again,
00:17:48they have to be competent and current and flying in multimillion dollar aircraft in a place
00:17:53where...
00:17:54Prioritize your training appropriately.
00:17:55Totally.
00:17:56Yeah.
00:17:57So I can only imagine that that guy, he had a hell of a day and a half or two days, however
00:18:01long he was on the ground.
00:18:02Someone said, can't wait for Mark Wahlberg to play this guy in a movie.
00:18:06Yeah.
00:18:07Yeah, it's possible.
00:18:08That's basically what you're doing.
00:18:09Yeah.
00:18:10I don't want to be picked up after 12 hours.
00:18:12If I get picked up after 36, then there's a movie.
00:18:14Mark Wahlberg doesn't get to play me.
00:18:16Especially if it's like 48.
00:18:17Yeah.
00:18:18Now we're talking.
00:18:19Yeah.
00:18:20Yeah.
00:18:21Don't turn your beacon on.
00:18:22Yeah.
00:18:23Like looking.
00:18:24Really keep them guessing.
00:18:25Wouldn't it be cool if you had like a little chart and on the chart, it's the different
00:18:27actor levels.
00:18:29And for the longer that you stick about and you go, it's 36 hours, but at 36 hours, I only
00:18:32get Marky Mark.
00:18:33But at 48, I get Brad Pitt.
00:18:35How did you get such insight into how the US military operates?
00:18:38At 72, it's Chris Hemsworth.
00:18:39Oh my God.
00:18:40I'm going to make it to 72.
00:18:41I want Hemmy to play me.
00:18:43He's a handsome man.
00:18:44Yes.
00:18:45Better in person.
00:18:46Yeah.
00:18:47Unbelievably handsome in person.
00:18:48Yeah.
00:18:49That actually was where I got the permanently erect idea from.
00:18:50Okay.
00:18:51It's terrifying.
00:18:52So technology in war.
00:18:53Yep.
00:18:54Is it making soldiers more fragile or more effective, do you think?
00:19:03I think two things can be true sometimes.
00:19:06I don't, I don't think you should outsource killing and killing through a screen, even
00:19:15though I think that that's the way that the world is probably headed.
00:19:18I think that removes the burden associated with that, but at the same time, some of those
00:19:23tools can help you kill people a lot more effectively.
00:19:27So you mean there shouldn't be a flippancy with pulling the trigger or the equivalent
00:19:30of on another human?
00:19:31No, I don't think so.
00:19:33I think you should scramble your eggs for maybe the rest of your life.
00:19:38Not like destroy you, but it should change your optic on humanity in the world.
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00:20:44Wasn't there a stat around the number of soldiers who either didn't fight their weapon or fight
00:20:51their weapons in a direction that wasn't basically toward the enemy in world war II?
00:20:56Yeah, SLA Marshall did a study on this and it's why they went from shooting at circular
00:21:01accuracy targets to silhouette type targets.
00:21:04Now there's some issues with SLA Marshall and his data collection though.
00:21:08So as they've looked at this in hindsight, he claims to have interviewed a substantial
00:21:15number of people.
00:21:16And somebody finally just got out a calendar and a piece of paper and said, how many did
00:21:20you say that you did and how long were you over there for?
00:21:23The math doesn't math on that.
00:21:25So they're come to find out there's some BS involved in that section of military history
00:21:31as well.
00:21:33But that is a lot of where Grossman got his on killing information as well too.
00:21:39And walking through that, they claim that there was a statistically very small amount of people
00:21:46that would actually aim their weapon at another human being and pull the trigger.
00:21:49And they associated that probably with two prongs, one just the morality of humanity,
00:21:55but two only practicing shooting at things that didn't look real.
00:22:00Not that it's still like a green type silhouette, it doesn't look that real, but it looks more
00:22:03human than a circular bullseye.
00:22:05So they swapped that out.
00:22:06And then I believe SLA Marshall and Grossman, their theory was that the percentages went
00:22:13up.
00:22:14I don't know how you actually measure that.
00:22:17I talked with some guys who served in Vietnam, they're like, "God damn man, I was shooting
00:22:20at everything I could give him."
00:22:21Well, one thing that stopped me is I ran out of bullets.
00:22:25I'm like, "Whoa, dude, you're at 12.
00:22:29Can I get you back at an eight also?
00:22:31Are you okay?
00:22:32Have you talked to anybody about this in your life or are you just waiting for me 60 years
00:22:35later to ask you this question?"
00:22:41Has my dad, by the way.
00:22:42Jesus Christ.
00:22:44And look, I mean, the technology might enable people to get around that if that is an issue.
00:22:49And should we allow that, man?
00:22:53Killing is so romanticized in so many ways and it is something that I, God, it should
00:22:59be a measure of last resort.
00:23:01And I don't know if you should remove the complexity and difficulty associated with that.
00:23:10But certainly the flippancy that people can find around that shouldn't be there.
00:23:16Well, look at it.
00:23:18If you're on any social media platform, I mean, did you see Charlie Kirk's death?
00:23:24How would you say?
00:23:26Unconsentingly.
00:23:27Yeah.
00:23:28Twice.
00:23:29So all three of my kids did too.
00:23:30That was the hardest conversations I had to have was with all three of my kids.
00:23:34Especially knowing what their dad did.
00:23:36I am the most resoundingly uninteresting human being to them.
00:23:40I think they had maybe asked me about my old job five times.
00:23:47I don't know what they know or don't know.
00:23:49I don't talk with them about it.
00:23:50I have nothing military related at the house.
00:23:53It's just, I just try to be their dad.
00:23:56But all three of them in formative years of their life, scrolling on social media because
00:24:01their generation is of course almost terminally online at this point, saw that.
00:24:05I saw it as well too.
00:24:08And on any of these social platforms, if you go deep enough down a rabbit hole, there's
00:24:11no way that these filters can be as effective as we want them to be.
00:24:15You're going to see people who are dying online.
00:24:17And that is not something that most people ever actually see in their real life.
00:24:21And I don't know if that reduces your, you know what I mean?
00:24:25It's like this barrier that I'm very thankful that almost nobody is willing to cross.
00:24:32I think people might talk a big game about that, but almost nobody is willing to cross
00:24:36that barrier.
00:24:37And I'm very thankful for that because it's not something that should be talked about flippantly.
00:24:40I don't think we should remove barriers to making that easier.
00:24:45That was really, I mean, that's seared into my brain.
00:24:48Think about how many videos on the internet you've seen, like tens of thousands of videos
00:24:53that I've seen on the internet.
00:24:54Looky numbers.
00:24:55Yeah, I know.
00:24:56Fucking baby numbers, dude.
00:24:57Up your game.
00:24:58We're talking a week?
00:24:59Yeah, yeah.
00:25:00And that one, it's not the main angle that everybody saw.
00:25:05It was the second one that was much more graphic.
00:25:08And I didn't mean to see that one either.
00:25:11That's not my idea of a good way to spend an afternoon to see that.
00:25:14And yeah, I didn't mean to, but then you're contending with what does freedom of speech
00:25:19mean?
00:25:20And freedom of exposure?
00:25:21Is that the same thing as freedom of speech?
00:25:24Freedom to be exposed to these things and how much should we, there's certainly things that
00:25:28we don't want to be insulating people from.
00:25:32But then there's stuff that almost universally, like a guy being killed in a really, really
00:25:37graphic way.
00:25:41That's one of the ones that, who needs to see that as a part of their human development?
00:25:46I completely agree.
00:25:47And the fact that that stuff exists and will for the foreseeable future.
00:25:53I don't know what that does to the psyche of people who see that when they're in those developing
00:25:58ages.
00:26:00What's something about special operations that you think civilians glorify that's completely
00:26:06wrong or misconstrued?
00:26:09The people?
00:26:10Legitimately so I, I truly served with people that I consider to be just tremendous in every
00:26:21regard.
00:26:22And not like a person that was tremendous in every sense, but I could look at somebody and
00:26:26say, Oh my God.
00:26:28I wish I could do what you're able to do to fill in the blank.
00:26:30I could find inspiration in those people and look at them and say, okay, I know what's possible.
00:26:35And if you can get to that level, I can at least try to get to that level because I want
00:26:38that to be the standard.
00:26:39You could apply that across the board, but they're all exceptionally normal people.
00:26:47The special operations community is not comprised of people that put a cape on and go to work.
00:26:52They are very normal people that are tasked with doing some exceptional things at times,
00:26:57but they suffer from the same ailments of life that everybody else does.
00:27:02And you can easily create this unrealistic expectation that they can do anything, that
00:27:08they can tolerate anything, that they are impossible to knock down.
00:27:13And that isn't the case, man.
00:27:15They're normal, exceptionally average people.
00:27:18I wish I could take people and introduce them to the first day of Bud's training, where you'll
00:27:22have a couple hundred people lined up and just like, just look at the physiology of these
00:27:26people.
00:27:27And this is going to be like a D1 college athlete, which guess what, the fucker's not going to
00:27:31be able to swim.
00:27:32So see you later.
00:27:33Right.
00:27:34And there's going to be a marathon runner and that guy's going to have a really hard time
00:27:36swimming.
00:27:37So that stuff kind of sorts itself out.
00:27:38The rest of it, you would look at their physiology and anatomy and just be like, really?
00:27:44Like you look like the dude who was checking me out at the grocery store and that's like,
00:27:47yeah, that dude's a savage, but still also a normal person.
00:27:52And I think that's forgotten often, and you can actually lie to yourself when you're in
00:27:58that community, because if people expect that from you, you start expecting it from yourself.
00:28:02And then you're headed into a really deep, dark place.
00:28:05You've got a line, we are not as unique as we think.
00:28:08We just struggle in different ways.
00:28:10Yeah.
00:28:11I'm guessing that's what you're talking about here.
00:28:13Yeah.
00:28:14I mean, you have more in common with a guy who was bagging your groceries and a special
00:28:19operation soldier than you could possibly think.
00:28:22And nobody wants to believe that.
00:28:23Why do they not want to believe it?
00:28:25I don't know.
00:28:27Because then I think it makes it easy for people to say, well, I can never do that because that
00:28:32person's different.
00:28:33And I'm not saying take the grocery bag or two.
00:28:35I ran, you know, maybe take the guys.
00:28:37See if you can fucking survive.
00:28:38Actually, we really want to make a movie about you with Mark Wahlberg.
00:28:42You can put whatever you want to in this brown paper bag, but it's all you have to survive.
00:28:4572 hours.
00:28:46Yeah.
00:28:47Only if you want Chris.
00:28:48Yeah.
00:28:49Yeah.
00:28:50And if you can say, well, they're different, then you give yourself an excuse.
00:28:53I can't do that.
00:28:55And I went back as an instructor for 18 months and I watched these kids and I'm sure the instructors
00:29:00watch my class and said the same thing like, God, I work with retards.
00:29:10Clearly what they were saying about my class, but it was not a group of people that are on
00:29:16baseball card decks.
00:29:18It was people from all over the US from the Midwest to coastal cities who would probably
00:29:24have politics align a little bit more blue and some align a little bit more red and people
00:29:28who joined the military to get out of their socioeconomic position because they had no
00:29:32upward mobility and legitimate people had probably generational wealth and they're all there.
00:29:37And they're all so ridiculously, the differences are on.
00:29:42It's just, it's Randolph here.
00:29:44The similarities are, yeah, they're just average people.
00:29:48What did you learn as an instructor looking at selection that you didn't learn being part
00:29:54of selection?
00:29:55Yeah.
00:29:56Let me just tell you, it was a different experience.
00:29:58Right.
00:29:59Yeah.
00:30:00Because you were warm.
00:30:01Did you play into the fact that when you went through it, you saw some bastard with a big
00:30:05anorak on holding a hot cup of cocoa and you're like, ah, now it's my turn.
00:30:09Well, with all generational trauma, the goal with it should be to pass it downhill.
00:30:13So at least that's what the military uses.
00:30:14No, there are definitely people who play roles and caricatures.
00:30:19I went back about 10 years after I had been in and I was rehabbing from getting hurt.
00:30:25And also we were well into the global war on terror.
00:30:28So when I went through in 1997, the concept of the real world application of the job was
00:30:33exactly that.
00:30:34It was a concept.
00:30:35I volunteered during peace time and there was a generation of SEALs that had served post
00:30:40Vietnam all the way up until that point that had never seen anything happen.
00:30:44Didn't see anything happen.
00:30:45No, but I mean, that doesn't change though, how hard they trained and how much they focused
00:30:48on the job.
00:30:49It's either good luck or bed lock, depending on the optic that you're looking at it.
00:30:53And people will tell you, it's both like, oh, it's good luck.
00:30:55I didn't get that.
00:30:56Or I had feel like I have horrible luck because I didn't get those experiences.
00:30:59So it was a different world for me going through training a lot of this stuff as a student.
00:31:05It's really weird.
00:31:06Actually my class started with 180 people and we graduated 18 of the originals.
00:31:11So every day you're peeling people off mostly in the first phase of training.
00:31:15That's where the vast, vast majority of people are going to disappear, but you don't get to
00:31:20talk to them because your training day continues and they're just, they're gone and they are
00:31:24shifted over to another division and they're housed in a different area.
00:31:27And that's not demeaning by any stretch.
00:31:29They just, they lift and shift them from the class that is going through training and you're
00:31:35back to the needs of the Navy.
00:31:36You can come back.
00:31:37And that's something that people don't often know.
00:31:39You can, you'll have to go back out to the fleet for a couple of years.
00:31:42You're going to have to rescreen to come back in.
00:31:44But some of the most legendary SEAL operators are guys who didn't make it through BUD/S there
00:31:48first time.
00:31:49And I don't know why people don't understand that like, oh, you failed one time.
00:31:53I have to go.
00:31:54You know, my life is over.
00:31:55And I'm like, I don't, you know, I don't, if I had a list of my successes and failures,
00:31:59let me just tell you the failure list is multiples.
00:32:01Magnitudes of order greater than my success list.
00:32:04But when I went through as a student, nothing made sense.
00:32:07Because you would have an instructor one day, he would, you would do something that they
00:32:10would ask and they'd be like, good job.
00:32:12And the next day you do something that they would ask and they would just hand you your
00:32:15ass.
00:32:16You know, like, what is going on here?
00:32:18So it was very chaotic and it didn't make sense.
00:32:21Like, why are we so focused on some of these things?
00:32:24It was always attention to detail, attention to detail, attention to detail, and follow
00:32:28procedure regardless of how you feel and what is going on around you.
00:32:32As an 18 year old kid, some of those things are very difficult concepts, right?
00:32:37And I also, again, the lens of, I mean, this is just training, right?
00:32:42Like nobody's been to war in a really long time.
00:32:43Like you guys take it easy a little bit and then like, God, then I go back in 2006.
00:32:48So we're five years into the GWAD at this point.
00:32:51And I looked at the curriculum and I saw what we were doing and it was constant aha moments
00:32:55of like, Oh, this is why we do that.
00:32:59Attention to detail has nothing to do with the knife that I'm expecting to see if it can
00:33:03cut hair before you go for an ocean swim or the CO2 cartridges that you twist into a life
00:33:08jacket that was produced in 1918, that I don't even know would save your life if you fire
00:33:13the cartridge at all.
00:33:14But you're sitting there as an instructor and you're looking at each one of the, you know,
00:33:19the screws and all the little crevices.
00:33:21Is there any rust in there?
00:33:23Is there any sand in there?
00:33:24It's not going to matter when it comes to functioning.
00:33:27You're focusing on attention to detail above everything else, because that's, what's keeping
00:33:31you alive when it comes to following a tactic, when the entire world around me was falling
00:33:35apart.
00:33:36So that type of stuff, time management, emotional control, decision-making, all of those things
00:33:41going back as an instructor, like, okay, now I get it.
00:33:46And the way I viewed it was this, I'm only going to be an instructor for two years, maybe
00:33:51on the far end, 18 months, and I do want to continue my career.
00:33:55And if I do so, I'm going to go back to a SEAL team and guess who I'm going to end up
00:33:58serving with?
00:33:59All of these people.
00:34:01So it is probably even to my own benefit and perhaps survival if I try to pour as much knowledge
00:34:07information into these people, as opposed to treating them like the redheaded stepchild
00:34:11that you'd like to forget, which is technical description of how my class was treated.
00:34:16Not that I harbor any resentment and bad feelings.
00:34:18You think you had a particularly bad one?
00:34:20They hated our class.
00:34:21Well, I hated the leadership of our class.
00:34:23We did, so hell week is the fifth week of training and it opens with like M60s fire in blanks
00:34:30and smoke grenades.
00:34:31It's supposed to be like this intro into combat.
00:34:32It sounds like fucking Coachella's opening party or something.
00:34:35I've never been to Coachella, but I like where your head's at.
00:34:38And probably less alcohol at this party than Coachella and Molly.
00:34:41But for our class, they just walked out to the beach because they put you out in these
00:34:44huge general purpose tents.
00:34:47And they just walked out to the beach and with the bullhorn, they're like, hit the surf, which
00:34:51just means run out of the tent and you just go get into the water.
00:34:54That's all we got.
00:34:55They hated our class.
00:34:56They beat the shit.
00:34:57Why do you think they hate you so much?
00:35:00There's leadership.
00:35:01Do you have a leader during hell week?
00:35:04You have a leader at all times, right?
00:35:06So they did not like me.
00:35:09Were you the leader?
00:35:10No, no, no, no.
00:35:11I was going to say, I totally understand them.
00:35:13No, no.
00:35:14I failed in my leadership roles much later on after I had enough knowledge and experience
00:35:18and just not the technical capacity to do my job.
00:35:23It's not everybody's, and there's another thing that a misconception that people have.
00:35:26Well, you know, if you come from special operations, you're just naturally this leader.
00:35:30You're going to be awesome.
00:35:31You can lead in any situation.
00:35:32And it's not true.
00:35:33The best leaders that I ever was around was in that community.
00:35:38And in the same breath, the worst leaders that I was ever around was also in that community.
00:35:43But nobody can tell that from the outside because we still will be successful.
00:35:47Get the job done.
00:35:48Right.
00:35:49And then, so people look at that community and then they say, well, okay, if you guys
00:35:51always get the job done, then your leaders must all be awesome.
00:35:54Why don't you go ahead and canvas the group and you'll find out right quick which leaders
00:35:59are liked and appreciated and are actually doing the jobs and which ones are lucky that
00:36:04they might not have a dick rubbed on the inside of their coffee cup.
00:36:07So you had a strong headwind.
00:36:10Does that mean a dick on my coffee cup?
00:36:11Yes.
00:36:12Yeah.
00:36:13I did the best I could, I've never claimed to be a good leader, man.
00:36:20I have made, I'm not joking, I've made more mistakes in my life than I've had failures.
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00:37:21You have this line about failure being tuition payments.
00:37:24Yeah.
00:37:25I've reframed how I view failures.
00:37:26I now consider them tuition payments.
00:37:28Some of my tuition payments have been relatively inexpensive and some have taken me to the brink
00:37:32of bankruptcy.
00:37:33Yeah.
00:37:34It's just an easier way to get comfortable with consistently failing, you know, just lying
00:37:40to yourself and reframing like, "Hey, maybe this is a good thing."
00:37:43Cost of doing business is a great way to look at this stuff though, dude, it really is.
00:37:48Legitimately, I didn't view it like that for many, many years in my life because you want
00:37:53to sit there and blame every external circumstance.
00:37:56And maybe you do fail because of an external circumstance, but by reframing it as a lesson
00:38:02that I learned then that I can apply moving forward, the tuition payment that you really
00:38:06don't understand the cost of, I mean, I'll take a, to put it in business terms, I'll take
00:38:11a $5,000 mistake that would save me $500,000 later on, you know, and that's, that's really
00:38:16all it is.
00:38:17It's, failures are rough.
00:38:18I mean, it doesn't make it any easier by reframing it to that, but I also am sitting here today,
00:38:24the person that I am because of the failures and hopefully what I've learned from those
00:38:26as well.
00:38:27What are some of the most expensive lessons that you've paid for?
00:38:31Oh man.
00:38:33So earlier in life, my entire life was based around this concept of being somebody who was
00:38:42incapable of quitting because that's the community that I came from.
00:38:48And because of that, I put my children and myself through probably 10 extra years in a
00:38:57relationship that I'm still working my way out of and the impact of, because I would look
00:39:03at myself in the mirror and say, today's the day, huh, pussy, you're going to quit.
00:39:09I literally talked myself into staying in something that demonstrably and objectively, almost everybody
00:39:16from the outside after I had made the decision to leave was like, Hey man, good job on that
00:39:22one.
00:39:23Wish you would have done that about a decade ago because of how I viewed myself in that
00:39:29situation.
00:39:30That shift that I write about it, it's I'd actually at this point in my life, rather see
00:39:34people fall a little bit short of their goals and know when to walk away than destroy themselves
00:39:42because they don't ever want to quit and they end up having nothing in their life.
00:39:47There's a fine line between resilience and suppression, but this, and a lot of the time,
00:39:51I think we are, we compute, confuse suppression for strength.
00:39:56And I didn't, I'm, I'm, I'm kind of fascinated about the line between giving up too soon,
00:40:09leaving it on the table, sandbagging a workout and stopping because you're about to get injured.
00:40:14That is a tough one because how do you measure that, that there's no external tool that somebody
00:40:18can look at you and say, Hey, you should keep going because they don't actually, you know,
00:40:23like they don't know how your body is, what your limit is.
00:40:27Yeah.
00:40:28And especially you need to use an exercise as an example, like the tension that you're
00:40:31under, like you, you're actually getting physical feedback, like, no, no, I'm not going to put
00:40:34that down.
00:40:35So I don't blow my, you know, my spine out, but the emotional one's even more difficult
00:40:40because what does it mean to say that you went past your emotional limit?
00:40:44What does an injury relationally or karmically or psychologically mean compared with, yeah,
00:40:51dude, I put 380 on the bar and tried to do 20 back squats and I blew my MCL out.
00:40:58Yeah.
00:40:59That was a bad idea.
00:41:00But what does that mean?
00:41:01Because it's, you erode psychological wellbeing in small chunks, typically over a very long
00:41:07period of time.
00:41:08So you can always go one more day.
00:41:11You can always go until you get to the stage where you've accumulated sufficient damage.
00:41:16Yeah, I wish I would have been able to recognize that point earlier in my life.
00:41:22It would have saved a lot of hardship for myself.
00:41:25And I think for my, my children as well, too, but if I'm like anybody else, I'm almost always
00:41:31my own worst enemy, you know, my mastery of negative self-talk I have no, uh, education
00:41:39beyond a high school diploma that I barely got.
00:41:41I think they gave it to me just so I would get out of there, but a PhD in negative self-talk.
00:41:45How does that encourage you to stay in situations that you should leave earlier?
00:41:50The reason I stayed is because the entire currency of my life up until that point was being known
00:41:55to somebody who wouldn't quit.
00:41:57And that's very common inside of that special operations world.
00:42:00Again, you know, what, what do you, what are these misconceptions that people may have?
00:42:04And that's why to me, it's so important to at least try to pull back the curtain a little
00:42:08bit and just explain that these are absolutely average people like, yeah, God, so many guys
00:42:13will say this, I hate the term always and never, but most guys would tell you like, listen,
00:42:18the job will always suffer last.
00:42:20The boys will always suffer last, but the family will absolutely suffer before your job performance
00:42:26does.
00:42:27I mean, you put everything for that pursuit of who you are and what you're doing on a pedestal
00:42:33and everything else around you in life is falling apart and you still have to deal with that
00:42:37at some point.
00:42:38And it's just that unwillingness to let people down and that unwillingness to admit like,
00:42:41Hey man, like I'm falling apart at the seams here.
00:42:44Like I might be performing at work, but absolutely every other metric in my life is trending in
00:42:50the wrong direction.
00:42:51The guys won't say anything and it's dangerous.
00:42:55I think it has a lot to do with what happens when, you know, guys get out and the struggles
00:43:00that they have when they get out as well too.
00:43:02I found out that of professional athletes who get divorced, 50% of the divorces happen in
00:43:09the first year after they retire.
00:43:12It's a different universe when you stop going to work and you actually have to physically
00:43:16be there.
00:43:17The world I came from, 270 days a year on the road, easy.
00:43:24I mean, you're living independent, but make hopefully parallel lives.
00:43:30And then you switch to 365 home.
00:43:32Hey honey, do we know each other?
00:43:35Do you still like me?
00:43:37And you've lost your purpose.
00:43:38I think that's a big one.
00:43:39You are trying to deal with the deceleration of your own identities.
00:43:43Hopefully you guys put the brakes on a little early, you know, lift their head up a little
00:43:46bit, realize that however long you want to stay in the military, the end is coming.
00:43:50So you can kind of keep an eye on the horizon, on the future.
00:43:53The longer people wait for that, I think the tougher the transition can be, but yeah, it's
00:43:58a shock, man.
00:43:59You gotta be careful that it's not who you are, that it's just what you do.
00:44:05Given that it's so all encompassing, that's got to be difficult though.
00:44:07Extremely.
00:44:08That's why, I mean, the stats don't lie statistically, veterans, special operations as well, suicide
00:44:16rate is statistically anomalous in comparison to the rest of society.
00:44:21You've got this line until you view yourself as the author of your life, you'll be the victim
00:44:25of it.
00:44:26Yeah.
00:44:27What's that mean?
00:44:28It means until you stop blaming everything else around you for the course and trajectory
00:44:32of your life, you're just going to be a flag in the wind going with the direction that the
00:44:38wind is blowing.
00:44:39And for clarity, you have almost no control over what happens in your life, but you have
00:44:45complete and total control in how you respond to it.
00:44:48And that is being the author of your life.
00:44:50So life sucks sometimes.
00:44:52Cool.
00:44:53Are you going to suck with that or are you going to take control of who you are and work
00:44:58your way through that and maybe even be better at the end of that, right?
00:45:02And that's the difference between somebody who will sit there and externally, instead
00:45:05of doing anything about what's going on, they'll sit there and complain about what's going on
00:45:08and point fingers at everything.
00:45:10The author of your life, not that it's any easier, you accept what's going on and you
00:45:15focus on what it is that you can control, which is largely going to be your actions, your thought
00:45:18process, your internal monologue, and what you do with it.
00:45:23I suppose an interesting challenge that you have here is you are the author of your life.
00:45:31And that means that you need to take responsibility for how you have contributed to the problems
00:45:34that you're facing.
00:45:36But that also includes how your traits, even the ones that in a different world or a different
00:45:41environment with strengths, you are having to pay the price for now too.
00:45:46That's also, you are your own responsibility.
00:45:50Your traits are your own responsibility.
00:45:52If you take a no quit attitude to everything in life, you are headed towards failure.
00:45:58You have to control those tools as well too.
00:46:01And again, from coming from the community where that was the currency and equity is your ability
00:46:05to never quit.
00:46:07Let's apply that to alcoholism.
00:46:09Like, I have a drinking problem, no, never quit.
00:46:13Okay.
00:46:14Maybe let's just pick up heroin then too and see how far I can push that one.
00:46:18There's easy examples of where that can get completely out of control.
00:46:22And it's just, God, it's so, God, it's so dangerous.
00:46:28And that's why I say, I would rather have people fall a little bit short of their goals and
00:46:31understand that not everything is worth destroying who you are or killing yourself for.
00:46:37There's just so few things in life that I think actually rise to that level.
00:46:41What's the classic avatar mold of a special operator's relationship with their wife?
00:46:51Man, that really varies.
00:46:53I don't know if there could...
00:46:56You guys like to marry strippers.
00:46:59So I mean, that's a weird avatar and I'm not here to tell anybody how to party.
00:47:06But I mean, that relationship dynamic often involves Chinese food getting thrown at you
00:47:10for some reason.
00:47:11I don't know why, but I've seen it.
00:47:15I've seen it.
00:47:16It's weird.
00:47:17So it really depends.
00:47:19The divorce rate in special operations, I would say, hovers at 80 to 85%.
00:47:25That's an estimate.
00:47:26I have no...
00:47:28It's anecdotal based on my experience.
00:47:30But the other side of that is, so let's say it is 85, 15% of those people are making it.
00:47:34And I have seen it where it's been high school sweethearts, legitimately high school sweethearts.
00:47:39And they have the ability to grow together even though they're apart and they can reconnect.
00:47:43I mean, a lot of that has to do with what was modeled for you when you were young.
00:47:48Because a lot of people will replicate the avatar of what was shown to them when they
00:47:52were growing.
00:47:53That's what they think a relationship looks like.
00:47:55That's one of my regrets for staying 10 years longer than I think I should have is...
00:47:59And I got to the point where I was asking myself, would I want my own children to follow my footsteps
00:48:05in this?
00:48:06Relationally.
00:48:07Yes.
00:48:08And if the answer...
00:48:09And you are imprinting them.
00:48:10Yes.
00:48:11And what am I modeling here?
00:48:12I am the most influential person in my children's life, especially at that point in time in their
00:48:15life.
00:48:16What am I modeling?
00:48:17And it's like, that is a tough conversation here to have like, oh my God, I'm actually...
00:48:23Even though I view myself as somebody who can never have quit, and this is the only currency
00:48:28that matters, I am actually modeling something I would never want my children...
00:48:31Would you want that for your kids?
00:48:32Yes.
00:48:33Yeah.
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00:49:46I mean, I spent a good bit of time with Jocko over Christmas.
00:49:53He's an autonomous robot.
00:49:55Dude, he was just extolling the virtues of his and his wife's relationship.
00:50:00Yeah.
00:50:01That's an example of one that did work.
00:50:02I think we've had about one and a half arguments in 35 years or however long they've fucked
00:50:08it.
00:50:09Oh, that just means they lied to each other.
00:50:12Or she's too scared to do it.
00:50:14Jocko is a teddy bear.
00:50:15Yeah.
00:50:16He's cute.
00:50:17He's been...
00:50:18He was nice.
00:50:19I saw him fucking roll on the floor with Mark Zuckerberg.
00:50:20That was a scene that I never thought I would have observed.
00:50:23That's not...
00:50:24Why is it Mark?
00:50:25No.
00:50:26No.
00:50:27That's not good.
00:50:28It's about half the weight and size and about a 10th of the experience of Jocko.
00:50:32But it was fun.
00:50:33It was fun to watch.
00:50:34Especially while they were on their feet.
00:50:35It was really fun.
00:50:36Yeah.
00:50:37It was like watching UFC1 happen.
00:50:38Is Zuck...
00:50:39Is he wee?
00:50:40Is he a tiny man?
00:50:41Not small.
00:50:42He's definitely packed on some muscle and size.
00:50:43And he's been training a good bear.
00:50:44How tall is he, James?
00:50:465'9".
00:50:47Average height for a woman, but...
00:50:52Look, I mean, it was good to see Jocko lie on top of another man.
00:50:56That was a great way to spend it.
00:50:57That's the best part about you, James.
00:50:58Yeah.
00:50:59Getting to lie another man.
00:51:00Or have them lie on top of you, you know?
00:51:03We're not all tops.
00:51:05Sometimes we're both.
00:51:06Sometimes we're both.
00:51:07Dude, what happened with this Rob O'Neill conversation?
00:51:10Because Mimi was texting about it and I saw an absolute tsunami of bullshit occur.
00:51:14Man.
00:51:15Um, I don't know how to accurately answer that because I don't know.
00:51:19It's the first time he and I ever had sat down and talked.
00:51:22When we opened the conversation, he reminded me that I had taken him for his first tandem
00:51:26when he went to the tandem course.
00:51:27I didn't remember that because on that day I was there as an instructor.
00:51:30You probably take six or eight people for a jump and that's how you...
00:51:35That's strapped to you.
00:51:36Correct.
00:51:37You're a bottom.
00:51:39They would be the bottom.
00:51:40Ah.
00:51:41They're front riding.
00:51:42Power position.
00:51:43Yeah.
00:51:44Power position.
00:51:45Yes.
00:51:46PBA.
00:51:47Power bottom actual.
00:51:48Yeah.
00:51:49Um, I didn't remember that because I'd always said I'd never met the guidance.
00:51:53It's like, dude, you took me for a first hand.
00:51:54I'm like, fuck.
00:51:55Sorry, man.
00:51:56I didn't remember that.
00:51:57I've taken 1500 people for a first hand.
00:51:59So it definitely wasn't intentional.
00:52:01I have never seen a military operation that has more tentacles going out with divergence
00:52:13in relayed experiences or stories, whatever you would want to call it than that particular
00:52:20one.
00:52:21And I don't know what to make of it.
00:52:23I know a lot of people that were there.
00:52:25I was not.
00:52:27And not all of their stories aligned with the most common narratives as well too.
00:52:35This is the Asana Bin Laden, right?
00:52:37Correct.
00:52:38Yeah.
00:52:39The operation was called Neptune Sphere.
00:52:40So dude, I don't know.
00:52:45He didn't deviate from a story.
00:52:47He added some things in there that definitely surprised me about what they included in the
00:52:52debrief and what they left out of the debrief.
00:52:55What were those things?
00:52:58From again, I was not there, so I'm relaying this.
00:53:01There was the first floor, the second floor, and then Bin Laden and his wives.
00:53:06And I believe a few children were on the third floor.
00:53:09The stories or the relayed experiences seem to start deviating at the stairs that go up
00:53:15from the second floor to the third.
00:53:17And very, very few people were actually on those stairs.
00:53:20I don't know why the stairways actually were, but stairways can actually be really dangerous
00:53:24from a tactical.
00:53:25You don't want to get a bunch of people in there.
00:53:27It would take one guy to pull a pin on a grenade and roll it down a set of stairs and you're
00:53:31having a real shit day.
00:53:33So you want to have enough people, but also the minimum amount.
00:53:35And the way you described it is that they were getting a little bit thin on bodies, but the
00:53:41first person saw movement, took a shot.
00:53:46They went into the room, Rob encountered Bin Laden, shot Bin Laden.
00:53:53And then essentially before they went to the debrief, and then after that, I mean, Rob said
00:54:00that as he was getting ready to take pictures, a guy walked up and shot him in the face multiple
00:54:03times right in front of him.
00:54:07Essentially before they went down to do the debrief, the people who were on the third floor
00:54:11got together and decided what they were going to include in that and what they weren't going
00:54:14to include in that.
00:54:15And again, the conversation was a while ago, so I don't know the exact specifics of it,
00:54:18but it was the initial shots and then the follow-up shots from that as well, from Rob and the man
00:54:23who was in front of him.
00:54:24Why are you shooting an enemy combatant that's dead in the face?
00:54:28It's a workaround.
00:54:30Mutilation of an enemy combatant.
00:54:31Yeah.
00:54:34Not, not advisable.
00:54:39And if you are going to do that, and I mean, it's just, that stuff happens.
00:54:48I mean, bottom line.
00:54:50You also sometimes, I mean, there's a difference between the way he described it is there was
00:54:54an immense amount of time between essentially the target being called secure, which is where
00:54:58you can kind of unwrap a little bit from a tactical perspective, but you'd like that call,
00:55:03come over the radio, and then you start a process of basically gathering as much information
00:55:07as you can.
00:55:08That's where you get the cameras out and you start looking for stuff and bagging things.
00:55:13When you're clearing, you don't want to, you don't want to leave uncertainty as if you engage
00:55:19somebody, you don't want to leave uncertainty as to whether or not they're going to resurrect
00:55:23themselves and come, so it's, and so you, what you end up doing is you inflict wounds that
00:55:28are incompatible with life.
00:55:30So if you can put the inside of their head on the outside of their head, that's usually
00:55:34a good indication that that problem is solved.
00:55:37There's a difference in doing that as you were clearing instructor in his structure and actively
00:55:40engaged.
00:55:42And then after, you know what I mean?
00:55:43After that happening, it happens.
00:55:48This is, it's a fucking ugly occupation, and it will show you the best of who you are and
00:55:55the worst of who you ever thought you could be.
00:55:58And some people get lost in that and you put people on the front lines who have been sharpening
00:56:03their teeth for decades, fighting the same people in the same places.
00:56:08It happens, but does that feel like righteous retribution in the moment, perhaps?
00:56:13Probably in the moment, but, and almost immediately regret.
00:56:17I don't know if there's always regret.
00:56:23Sometimes I don't think there ever is.
00:56:25To me, my personal opinion, and I only speak for myself, we need to be better than that.
00:56:31If we want to be a beacon to the world, we need to be better than that.
00:56:37And that's tough.
00:56:38Does it mean that you need to play by rules that other people are maybe not going to?
00:56:45You need to respect certain boundaries.
00:56:47You need to play.
00:56:48I mean, the Geneva convention, get it, totally understand rules of engagement, totally understand
00:56:55law of war, rule of war, totally understand.
00:56:58There is a lot of flexibility inside of all of those things.
00:57:01You can do everything that you need to do and be accomplished the mission you need to and
00:57:05dominate people on the battlefield inside of those things.
00:57:09Just imagine, I mean, in a lot of times, all you have to do is flip the coin.
00:57:12How would the American people react if, let's say, pilot in Iran, all right, we'll go to
00:57:17modern day, got captured, got killed, and then they put on the internet, a guy walking up
00:57:22with an AK and unloading a magazine into his face.
00:57:26That's not going to go over well.
00:57:29If we do that to other people, oftentimes that'll move the barrier for what they're willing to
00:57:33do to us as well.
00:57:35And I think that our country and our flag needs to stand for more than that.
00:57:40Well, there's already a level of contention over the U.S. entering conflicts at the moment.
00:57:46And I don't know what you think this does to how attractive military service looks at
00:57:51the moment, but at least for me, you know, in the UK, for instance, you've spent a good
00:57:55bit of time in the UK.
00:57:58There is no, we would like to invite first responders and active military personnel to
00:58:03board the plane early.
00:58:05How come?
00:58:06Because no one gets a fuck about our military.
00:58:10I've never, I've flown hundreds of flights around the UK.
00:58:13I mean, they may have changed it now, but I have never once.
00:58:15Do they have a special group that they invite on early?
00:58:18I'm fascinated now.
00:58:22I don't know.
00:58:23Maybe your friend that ejected himself out into liquefied, perhaps he would get to go
00:58:26on first.
00:58:27Being in Gil, look him up now.
00:58:28Holy.
00:58:29Can he walk now?
00:58:30Yeah.
00:58:31Okay.
00:58:32He's like running half marathons.
00:58:33Okay.
00:58:34I mean, I'm not saying there's gates good, but.
00:58:35He's like loping down.
00:58:37Yeah.
00:58:38So the UK doesn't revere the veteran community in the UK.
00:58:44I have no idea what that, to me, it's the sort of shit that I just learned about in American
00:58:48movies.
00:58:49And then since coming here, for instance, I once was wearing a black rifle coffee t-shirt
00:58:53and I think it had the American flag and it's a sort of a military green kind of color.
00:58:59Yeah.
00:59:00It's really nice t-shirt.
00:59:01I wore it until it was fucking Fred Baer and I got on a plane and a gentleman who was sat
00:59:07in one of the earliest rows said, thank you for your service to me as I went past.
00:59:11What did you say?
00:59:12I was like, as I'm like being fucking conveyor belted along.
00:59:17The movies you say you're welcome.
00:59:18I did it for you.
00:59:20There's enough about stolen valor already for the British to come in.
00:59:24Not only stolen valor, it's stolen patriotism.
00:59:26Holy fuck.
00:59:27It's stolen passing valor.
00:59:28You were being pushed along.
00:59:30That's correct.
00:59:31I needed to get my British out of the way first so that I could apologize for him getting it
00:59:37wrong.
00:59:38I'm like, I'm so sorry that you, you, you seem to be mistaken.
00:59:41Allow me to say my word.
00:59:43But even within that, like it's just so there's a reflex response in this country.
00:59:48Not always though.
00:59:49So my dad served in Vietnam.
00:59:51They didn't get that.
00:59:53Most of my dad's generation that served in the military, they'd be the last person to
00:59:56tell you that they actually did.
00:59:58His experiences were completely different than the modern era veteran.
01:00:04How do you think it would change in the UK though?
01:00:06Like let's transport 9/11.
01:00:08Do you guys have twin tower?
01:00:09Are you guys allowed to build that high?
01:00:11Are you capable of it?
01:00:12I think we're capable of it.
01:00:13I mean, look, Christopher Wren.
01:00:14I thought five stories was the maximum.
01:00:16Christopher Wren was, I mean, dude, we had the 7/7, we had the 7/7 bombings.
01:00:20So let's say it was something, okay, for whatever the analogy would be, if 9/11 had occurred
01:00:24in the UK and the UK had responded in the way that the US had in Afghanistan, right?
01:00:30I was taking the fact differences in size and all that.
01:00:34Do you think it would have changed the mentality though of the citizens in the UK and how they
01:00:39viewed it?
01:00:40Perhaps.
01:00:41I mean, look, are you saying to me that the turning point around how the military was interpreted
01:00:49the level of warmth towards people who were veterans was 2001?
01:00:55I don't know if that was the, I don't know.
01:00:57I can't claim causality.
01:00:59The correlation certainly exists.
01:01:01That seems to be a prior to then, not quite so revered, after then, pretty revered.
01:01:06But okay.
01:01:07So maybe it's just recency bias for me talking that what I know from my memory of how people
01:01:13respond to American veterans is that.
01:01:17Yes, thank you for your service, special dispensation, a variety of different days and parades and
01:01:24all sorts of other stuff with rainbow flags.
01:01:26And then you get to now where I don't know if the same thing's quite so true.
01:01:32I feel like there's a lack, there's a dearth of pendulums always swing.
01:01:40So maybe it's going back to what is more typical.
01:01:42Perhaps that was the aberration.
01:01:44Perhaps that was the anomaly, the last 30 years or so, 20 years.
01:01:47Perhaps that was what was strange.
01:01:49I would say 20 years is the anomaly.
01:01:51And honestly, I think the, again, to go back to misconceptions, I, I, I, sorry, World War
01:01:58II.
01:01:59Yeah.
01:02:00Guys came home.
01:02:01That was a big part of the baby boom was off the back of dudes that were just revered by
01:02:07every single person who hadn't been to war and all of the other people that had as well.
01:02:11Yeah.
01:02:12And I think a revering a community above all others can also become incredibly dangerous
01:02:19as well.
01:02:20It becomes a manipulatable system that becomes a system that you can gain and then pour examples
01:02:26or expressions of that.
01:02:27Start that pendulum going back in the other direction.
01:02:29I think it's a naturally correcting thing, but yeah, I think it has more to do with the
01:02:35previous 20 years than anything else.
01:02:37That'd be my guess.
01:02:39Yeah.
01:02:40I mean, just, you know, if you are, if there's the potential for boots on the ground being
01:02:46needed in the Middle East, which every day, just however low the likelihood was or is,
01:02:53that likelihood increases each day.
01:02:55I have absolutely no idea what is going on.
01:02:58It is pretty wild.
01:03:01How so?
01:03:05I thought that we were in the end the worst phase of politics and, you know, don't start
01:03:13any new ones, even the tech who were not at war, right?
01:03:16Of course, there's that lovely little caveat of how the authorized use of military force
01:03:20has been completely bent by every president that has been in office since it was created.
01:03:27I don't know how well the checks and balances are currently working.
01:03:30I don't know what the conscription thing like registering for the draft.
01:03:32I mean, there's a difference between registering people for the draft and then like executing
01:03:36a draft.
01:03:37I would actually really like to see two years of mandatory service for young men and women.
01:03:41It would give people such a different context on the world around them as opposed to just
01:03:46experiencing world through Instagram at that age, you'd go out and just, if you could leave
01:03:50where you were at and go to an area that was perhaps more impoverished or just get a different
01:03:54view of it and serve something bigger than yourself for two years, I think it would help
01:03:57a lot.
01:03:59But I mean, I don't know.
01:04:03I get really wary when there's no definable end state and that's on my own experience
01:04:09in the global war on terror.
01:04:11I mean, we accomplished our military objectives in Afghanistan and this is people way more
01:04:18steeped in military knowledge and understanding than myself in about 90 days.
01:04:24We saved for 20 years.
01:04:26Our exit probably could have been better.
01:04:30We left a few things behind.
01:04:31Did you see the video of like the day after we left, they were flying a Blackhawk with
01:04:37a man hanging from his neck underneath the rope, underneath it literally the day after?
01:04:41No.
01:04:42Oh yeah, not really.
01:04:43We left a lot of stuff behind.
01:04:45Iraq, you know, what's our definable end state?
01:04:50How long, sorry, how long ago was the official withdrawal?
01:04:56Five years?
01:04:57I think so.
01:04:58Yeah.
01:04:59We have to look that one up.
01:05:00My point is, however long ago that was, I don't know.
01:05:04It's like you and a toxic ex.
01:05:05You're just not able to stop going back.
01:05:08She's not good for me.
01:05:10She wasn't good for me for a long time.
01:05:11I've had a few cocktails though.
01:05:14Damn it dude, I had to send the you up WhatsApp.
01:05:17You know what's wild too is, where was it?
01:05:20August 30th, 2021.
01:05:21So not even five years.
01:05:23And here's what's wild.
01:05:24You know what, the talking point now is that Iran has been our enemy for 47 years, which
01:05:30I'm not going to argue, but depth to America is a thing for a certain segment of the population
01:05:35and ideological belief there.
01:05:37Got it.
01:05:38Why are we choosing now over the 47 years?
01:05:42Where was the people?
01:05:43I mean, we had a robust, for people who don't know where Iran is, it sits in between Iraq
01:05:49and Afghanistan.
01:05:51We had Oreo that fucker.
01:05:53They were the delicious creamy center.
01:05:55I was like, oh, this analogy is getting wild passed out of the US military.
01:06:02But what we did is bailed when we had an immense amount of infrastructure there.
01:06:09And now we're going to go back and I just, give me some metrics by which we're measuring
01:06:16or like, what are we using as our metric here?
01:06:19We destroyed their entire anti-air system, but we just lost two F-15s and two A-10s.
01:06:22We just nuked four of our own A-6s in the C-130s that they flew in there on like, I
01:06:27thought we had air superiority.
01:06:29Can't get one.
01:06:30We can't let them get a nuclear weapon.
01:06:31Well then what did we strike for last year?
01:06:32Because the president of the United States got up there and said, we completely annihilated
01:06:35their ability to enrich uranium, but now we're saying we can't let them get a bomb.
01:06:39Like, were you not telling me the truth then or are you not telling me the truth now?
01:06:42Or are you never telling me the truth?
01:06:44That's probably the better question for politicians.
01:06:47I just, it's such, it is such a horrific thing to ask of people to go do those things that
01:06:55I wish the people that made the decisions, to some degree, I wish they had more skin
01:07:00in the game.
01:07:01I wish they had to go with them, you know, which it's never going to be the case, but...
01:07:04We'll get back to talking in just one second, but first tell me if this sounds familiar.
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01:08:32What's that line about wars being chosen by old men so that young men go out and die?
01:08:38There's some, yeah, some pithy aphorism around that, but I mean, I think what's been fascinating
01:08:44to me is watching the commentariat and the supporters and the critiques, criticizers of
01:08:51both sides, like contort themselves into knots, trying to work out what their position is on
01:08:56this.
01:08:57People who didn't like Trump still don't like Trump and have more reason not to.
01:09:01Lots of people who did like Trump also now don't like Trump.
01:09:04I don't know of anybody who has been converted over to the support, and I think this is shown
01:09:10in the polls, but he's had over the last two years, check this out, Jared, I'm pretty sure
01:09:15over the last two years, what's happened to Trump's approval numbers?
01:09:19I think he's had the fastest decline in approval numbers, maybe in American history.
01:09:26Historically, when you tell people to go fuck themselves on Easter, that may happen.
01:09:32What did he end the Easter post with?
01:09:34Praise to Allah.
01:09:35Oh yeah.
01:09:36Yeah, what the fuck was going on with that?
01:09:39You're asking me what's going on with that?
01:09:41In the last two years, Trump's approval has followed a pretty clear pattern, a modest bump,
01:09:45then a steady decline, now persistently low and polarized, 46% approval and 43% disapproval
01:09:53in January, 2025, which is higher than 2017.
01:09:57Keep going down, recent polling shows 55 to 60%.
01:10:01So net negative approval of 14 to 20 points.
01:10:06Maybe that's not as low as I might've thought, but I mean, still not great, but that's a big
01:10:13drop.
01:10:14And what was the fucking, I was in Australia for this, I kind of saw it third hand.
01:10:21Why did he say DLR thing?
01:10:24I love that you're asking me for an explanation to that.
01:10:28Can you psychoanalyze Donald Trump for me for a second?
01:10:33Oh yeah, good.
01:10:34There you go.
01:10:35Psychoanalyze.
01:10:36Right.
01:10:37I have a theory about why Donald, hey, look.
01:10:38Oh, is it a glass this time?
01:10:40Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:10:41Put these on.
01:10:42And now that you've got ... Okay.
01:10:48So why did Donald Trump say praise to Allah?
01:10:53Because we elected a TV star to be the president of the United States.
01:11:03I'm going to have to condition myself to use this.
01:11:06Yeah, well, I don't know what the fuck is, what you can say the current US administration's
01:11:16plan is.
01:11:17Well, I don't know if they have one, and I think that might be the scariest thing.
01:11:22People get so wrapped around the color of their team's jersey, and I want whatever administration
01:11:28is in office to do the best they possibly can so that we all can benefit from that.
01:11:34And I don't know where it leads us when people forget that the goal should be like, hey, thriving
01:11:43of this country, but they'll choose alignment of their color jersey over to the exclusion.
01:11:48I don't understand that.
01:11:49I don't know why it got that way.
01:11:51I don't also don't know how to get out of it either.
01:11:52They'd rather their side win, but the country lose.
01:11:55I don't know if they would verbalize that, but their actions seem to be in line with that.
01:12:00And I don't ... That's not great.
01:12:02It really does.
01:12:03At the moment, dude, it really does seem just like, I don't know, own goal after own goal.
01:12:07And then even inside of the Republican party, the whole thing that J.D. Vance ran on was
01:12:11America first.
01:12:13His whole philosophy was there.
01:12:15The next Republican candidate for president is going to have a very interesting character.
01:12:20Which fucking unwind this?
01:12:22Well, they're going to have to run at a time while he is still president and answer for
01:12:27a lot of the policy.
01:12:28You mean throwing him under the bus?
01:12:29I don't think they'll be able to, because I think he would cut his own nose off despite
01:12:34his face when it came to that.
01:12:35I think ... And not support them?
01:12:37I think so.
01:12:38So you've got to walk this tight rope of ... And how do you do that?
01:12:40Well, this was the issue that Kamala had, right, where she was being asked ... Putting it down
01:12:46to a single issue or ... That's right.
01:12:48She was being asked to under the bus Biden while still being his VP.
01:12:53Yeah.
01:12:54And that was something that she struggled with.
01:12:57I mean, something I thought about, you know, did the Republicans win the last elections
01:13:02or did the Democrats fuck it up so much?
01:13:05You know?
01:13:06Like, hey, we're not even going to let you choose which candidate you're going to vote
01:13:08for.
01:13:09All because of all the money we would have to give back and not be able to fundraise with.
01:13:12So yeah, we're going to strip away your choice and like, this is the person you got.
01:13:17Get on team blue.
01:13:18What?
01:13:19What?
01:13:20Yeah.
01:13:21What do you think about the future of mercenary organizations, of sort of guns for hire, increasingly
01:13:29I'm seeing ... Depends on who you ask.
01:13:31Some people are saying it's the way forward.
01:13:35Usually those people own those companies, but ... That's a tough one.
01:13:41I don't think you should be able to rent the American flight.
01:13:43I think it should be issued on your uniform and that's it.
01:13:46If you want to do things, if the military is not capable of doing the things that you're
01:13:49filling those gaps with, then do me a favor and restructure the military and develop those
01:13:53capabilities instead of outsourcing it.
01:13:56Because there are some ways to cut corners, outsourcing it and paint outside of the lines
01:14:01that the military isn't supposed to be able to do.
01:14:04And I think that's a dangerous thing.
01:14:07I think if the military isn't certain of the rule and isn't capable of doing it, then let's
01:14:12solve that problem.
01:14:14Because you're using this buttress performance enhanced thing to compensate.
01:14:21Yeah, and there's also risk in that too.
01:14:26The Iranian pilot, as an example, dude, we need some assets to go get that guy.
01:14:30Which by the way, people complain about the price of that, but to go back to being issued
01:14:34and flagged on your uniform and being asked to do exceptional things, it kind of helps
01:14:38to know that if shit goes sideways, the chariot will be lit on fire.
01:14:44It might not be pointed in the right direction.
01:14:45You might see it go off a cliff, but we're going to come do something.
01:14:47Send another one.
01:14:48Totally send more chariots until we get you.
01:14:52That doesn't exist in the contracting world.
01:14:54If you're out there and you're doing a contract, a kinetic contract in an environment that is
01:14:59maybe less newsworthy, but you're still, there is no red button, like, hey, send everybody.
01:15:06So there's a lot of risk involved in that as well too.
01:15:08That's interesting.
01:15:09I didn't know that.
01:15:10How could there be?
01:15:11I mean, the, the, the, the C star combat search and rescue response, that was all military
01:15:16based, right?
01:15:17I thought that there would be something that was a part of that ecosystem inside of it.
01:15:23I suppose it's, it's much closer to a market.
01:15:25It's just a capitalist.
01:15:27Correct.
01:15:28Yeah.
01:15:29I mean, they're talking probably minimum manning at times, you know what I mean?
01:15:31How many bodies do we need to be able to do this?
01:15:33What can we charge?
01:15:34They're not going to have like the assets that we, no pun intended, metaphorically and literally
01:15:39burned to the ground.
01:15:41Those organizations don't have a stable at those things to be able to do that.
01:15:46So yeah, it's, I don't like the idea of outsourcing military type rules specifically when the underlying
01:15:57motivation behind it is to skirt rules that prohibit military behaviors and activities.
01:16:03What are those sorts of rules?
01:16:05Rules of engagement, meddling in affairs that the U S military is not supposed to be meddling
01:16:12in.
01:16:13Because it would cross some kind of diplomatic or legislative, right?
01:16:21I don't think we should be doing that stuff.
01:16:22I think that it gets real murky real fast.
01:16:24I'm not saying there's not a role for private military contractors, PMCs, which are most
01:16:28of those organizations.
01:16:33I don't think outsourcing war is a good idea.
01:16:38But it suddenly opens up the problem of who's got the biggest bank balance and who can continue,
01:16:43who, who is going to pay the most.
01:16:46And if allegiance is basically to whoever's got the biggest paycheck, that's a problem.
01:16:52I don't know much about Bitcoin, but there's a lot of people out there with a lot of Bitcoin.
01:16:56Why don't we have our own private military contract?
01:16:59That'd be nice.
01:17:01People quit when they focus on how far they have to go.
01:17:04Yeah.
01:17:05Where'd you learn that?
01:17:08So interestingly enough, going back as an instructor was there for 18 months.
01:17:12I did not want to go back.
01:17:14It was global war on terror.
01:17:16That's a sure duty command, non deployable meeting, regardless of what's going on.
01:17:20Your job is to be an instructor, which if you are in a profession of arms and arms are being
01:17:25used in your profession, you're probably going to want to be over there.
01:17:28Out of the school house, wiping noses and asses, right?
01:17:31We didn't actually do that.
01:17:32We let them do that for themselves because they're adults.
01:17:35But it ended up being the most rewarding 18 months of my entire career.
01:17:41I look back on it and I learned a lot about myself and it gave me an incredible understanding
01:17:46of the community.
01:17:48And I realized it was like the world's best laboratory on why people quit.
01:17:55Like all of this, there have been so many millions of dollars and I don't have an exact, I'm going
01:18:00to say, it's safe to say millions of dollars had been spent trying to figure out who makes
01:18:05it through SEAL training, psychological assessments, looking at your sporting background.
01:18:10Did you come from a nuclear family, a broken home?
01:18:12Where'd you come from?
01:18:13Socio economic status, all of these things.
01:18:16Pre-training programs that existed for a couple of years.
01:18:18The attrition rate just hums right along.
01:18:22All of this stuff, it might've bumped at a percentage point.
01:18:25For people who don't know the attrition rate in the summer months is about 75%.
01:18:28So three out of four students aren't going to make it.
01:18:30Winter months, a little bit colder.
01:18:31So more exposure to the elements, maybe sometimes 90% attrition rate.
01:18:36Which is winter, right?
01:18:37Winter hell week.
01:18:38Yes.
01:18:39For sure.
01:18:40My class was the last hard budget class that there ever was.
01:18:44Documented.
01:18:45It's written somewhere, probably in my handwriting, but the winter is just, it's just colder.
01:18:52And the cold sucks more.
01:18:54As a student, when you're going through, you don't get a chance to talk to the guy who
01:18:59is next to you who quits because they're gone.
01:19:01And your training day continues.
01:19:04And especially in like hell week, if that's a five day evolution starting on Sunday and
01:19:07ending on Friday, if they're gone, most of the quitting occurs between Sunday and about
01:19:11Tuesday morning, they're already moved out of the bear.
01:19:14Like you'll probably never see them again.
01:19:16So as a student, you're just like front side focus.
01:19:19As an instructor, they're there for a couple of weeks.
01:19:22They have to process out, they get put over in a different birthing place.
01:19:25A lot of times they have medical issues that they're working their way through.
01:19:29And you are around young men who probably a week before you have a conversation with them
01:19:39would have told you that it is their singular goal and focus on life.
01:19:43And there's nothing that you could have done to make them quit and that they were going
01:19:47to be there on graduation day.
01:19:48And that this is the only goal that matters to them.
01:19:52And then eight to nine out of 10 of them quit and you can sit there and you can talk to
01:19:56them about why.
01:19:58And I try to be very kind in talking with them because most of the people who have regret
01:20:03is the largest emotion that just is kind of outpouring.
01:20:08They want to go back.
01:20:09It sucks.
01:20:10I've met students decades later are people who have quit Buzz and like, Hey man, I'm not
01:20:13trying to be a dick, but I'm just curious because I have a theory.
01:20:15Like, how do you feel about that decision regret every single time they wish they had been able
01:20:20to see it through because it leaves a really large question mark in their life going forward.
01:20:25So in spending time with the students, I would ask them, you know, well, why did you quit?
01:20:30And in that kind of fragile state, they were really honest with me and they kept saying
01:20:35the same things.
01:20:36There, there, there was a couple of categories and one of them was huge.
01:20:39The small one was like, life happened.
01:20:42My dad died and I got to get the fuck out of here.
01:20:44Like, dude, I wish you the absolute best.
01:20:46You know what I mean?
01:20:47Like that's not the data set that I'm looking for injury.
01:20:50There's another one can't control that because that wasn't necessarily a consensual choice.
01:20:53So boom, they're gone.
01:20:54Everybody else who rang the bell, why'd you quit?
01:20:58And they would all say the same thing.
01:21:00I couldn't be as cold as I was for as long as I thought I was going to be cold.
01:21:06I would say, well, how, who told you how long you were going to be cold for?
01:21:11Well, nobody, but I told myself I couldn't be cold for as long as I thought I was going
01:21:16to have to be.
01:21:17Or tired or hungry or the combination of all of those things or in physical pain or it was
01:21:24too hard.
01:21:26What they're all expressing is a moment where they became overwhelmed by the situation that
01:21:33they were in.
01:21:35And they started looking at time, literally time, how they viewed time was the determining
01:21:43factor on the decision that they made.
01:21:46If they could only see where they were like, this is the startup Bud's first day, and
01:21:51this is graduation on average 180 days.
01:21:54And the only thing that they can see is that the gap between my two fingers, dude, that's
01:22:02a lot, especially on your first day when you get your shit absolutely kicked in.
01:22:06And let's say you had a three end stack of little notes on the first one, it said 180.
01:22:11And at the end of that day where you're barely able to walk back to the barracks, you rip
01:22:15that off.
01:22:16And it says 179, how pumped are you?
01:22:19Not that pumped.
01:22:20So that's a person who became, they're creeping towards becoming overwhelmed.
01:22:25Hell Week, the same thing.
01:22:26Starts on a Sunday, ends on a Friday.
01:22:28But if all you can see is this gap and how far you are from your goal, you're getting
01:22:33into a really susceptible position and a really malleable position from an instructor state.
01:22:39And that was literally like, that's the secret sauce.
01:22:44This is the most important thing that I learned in my entire career.
01:22:47If you can identify that that is the main reason why people give up on their lifelong goals,
01:22:53you should be able to reverse engineer that.
01:22:55So how do you do that?
01:22:56You think about everything other than that.
01:22:59So instead of trying to get from here to here and only looking at that distance, you slam
01:23:03these two together.
01:23:04So there is a microscopic step that you can take and you only focus on that step and then
01:23:09the next one and the next one.
01:23:10And you don't have to keep track of your steps because as long as you keep making forward
01:23:14motion, this bridge will be gapped at some point in time.
01:23:19The muscle that fails at buds is not below the neck.
01:23:22It's between the ears.
01:23:24So they focus on that distance, they become overwhelmed when they make a decision that
01:23:27they'll regret for the rest of their life.
01:23:29So the key to that is to chunk your goals into the most digestible piece that you possibly
01:23:34can.
01:23:35And they consistently put those one on top of another.
01:23:37Is there a difference between stress and overwhelm?
01:23:40Can somebody force you to be overwhelmed is a better question.
01:23:43I don't think so.
01:23:45You can't actually, and I would, I would sort of have some interesting conversation with
01:23:48a student like, well, instructor so-and-so made me quit.
01:23:52Stand by please, I have additional questions.
01:23:54What do you mean?
01:23:55Well, they made me quit.
01:23:56I'm like, so they, they, they interlaced fingers, like the movie Ghost where they were doing
01:24:02pottery and they put your hand on the bell and rang the bell.
01:24:05They're like, no, no, no, I mean, that's not what I'm saying, but they were like in my face
01:24:11and they weren't going away.
01:24:12Cause it told me they weren't going to go away and I couldn't take it anymore.
01:24:16So I quit.
01:24:17I'm like, okay.
01:24:18And again, these are people in a fragile state, so I'm not like trying to have an argument
01:24:21with them, but I would try to, you know, maybe reinforce a little bit like, listen, that instructor
01:24:26facilitated an environment for you where you became your own worst enemy and you made that
01:24:31choice.
01:24:32And here's how I know that this works.
01:24:33As soon as I understood that concept, that the view of time was the most dangerous thing
01:24:40for the student, I gave up on all physical tools that I had, whether it was the ocean
01:24:48or the watch or food or physical exertion, then I would just talk to students like you
01:24:54and I are talking right now.
01:24:55I do.
01:24:56What's going on, man?
01:24:57It's like you're having a shitty day.
01:25:00This is only the first day of hell week and it was be like the third, but they're already
01:25:03hallucinating and I had sent my watch to the incorrect day in time.
01:25:10You look like you're really cold.
01:25:12How long do you think you can be this cold?
01:25:14I'm on shift for the next 12 hours.
01:25:15I'm going to sit here with you for 12 hours, I'm going to keep you in this water for longer
01:25:19than you thought was even possible.
01:25:22And you can see it in their eyes.
01:25:23The students are like, just whatever, dude, I know the game, fuck off.
01:25:26And so what they're chunking in that moment is just surviving the interaction with me.
01:25:30And I can recognize it too and like, lame, next.
01:25:32Then you go to the other student and you start seeing the self-doubt and you just water the
01:25:37self-doubt.
01:25:38It was the single most effective tool to get people to quit training.
01:25:41It had nothing to do with anything in the physical world.
01:25:46So you can reverse engineer that.
01:25:50So by reminding them how much further they had to go.
01:25:55That's all I focused on is I tried to get them to focus on where they were, how much more
01:26:00work they had to do to get to their goal.
01:26:03It's not just going to be the next minute.
01:26:05No I tried to get them to think of anything but that.
01:26:07The kid was thinking about the next minute, like Lane, get out of here, you're going to
01:26:09be fine.
01:26:10As you're walking, you're like, good job.
01:26:11You wouldn't say that, of course, but you think it.
01:26:14You outfoxed me.
01:26:15You saw the game that I was trying to play.
01:26:17Yeah, totally.
01:26:18I mean, it's for clarity, for people who are hearing this, they're like, yes, I'm going
01:26:22to start doing this and everything in my life is going to be easy.
01:26:25No.
01:26:26It doesn't make anything easier.
01:26:28It makes it more digestible.
01:26:30Pain still hurts.
01:26:32Suffering still sucks.
01:26:34But little bites of suffering, focusing on that little bite and not letting yourself get overwhelmed
01:26:38to make an emotionally poor decision, that's going to make a huge trajectory distance in
01:26:43your life.
01:26:44Yeah, the being paralyzed by indecision thing is something that I've been pretty fascinated
01:26:49by.
01:26:50And I know it's something that you are too.
01:26:51That line, many a wrong move was made by just standing still.
01:26:55So worst thing you can do.
01:26:56I write about that too.
01:26:57You get ambushed, the actually the worst thing that you can do is just stay in place, which
01:27:02is a really hard one because sometimes you find awesome rocks to hide behind.
01:27:06You're like, hey, dude, get over here.
01:27:08This thing stops bullets and your body will be screaming at you.
01:27:12Stay behind this rock because it currently is stopping.
01:27:15It's ballistically, it's cover, right?
01:27:17Cover is something that stops bullets.
01:27:19Concealment is something that hides you.
01:27:21Both work in hide and seek.
01:27:23Both do not work in a gunfight.
01:27:25Don't confuse the two.
01:27:26I've actually seen it happen.
01:27:27It's pretty gnarly.
01:27:28Mostly it was the enemy combatants thinking that bushes were cover.
01:27:33It was not.
01:27:36But also I can see it because you keep picking your head up.
01:27:38So like, dude, you suck at hide and seek.
01:27:42If you stay there though, because you're scared, because you don't want to die, both of which
01:27:47legitimate emotions and your enemy starts to come around the corner, it's going to be where
01:27:53you die.
01:27:54Your indecision and inability to control the fear that you are experiencing and being shot
01:27:59at and somebody trying to kill you is scary.
01:28:02It's another one of those misconceptions people have that there's this fearless nature of people
01:28:08in that community.
01:28:09That is not my experience.
01:28:10I actually don't want to work with somebody who is fearless because that either means you're
01:28:13not paying attention or you're a sociopath or a psychopath, neither of which are a good
01:28:17model for that world.
01:28:19So if you just stay there because you're scared and your enemy starts to maneuver on you, it's
01:28:23going to be where they find you.
01:28:24It's actually where we're going to be.
01:28:25They're going to find your dead body.
01:28:26What you actually have to do is even knowing that you could potentially absorb risk.
01:28:34You could get hurt.
01:28:35You have to move and you have to switch that on the people that initiated the ambush on
01:28:39you.
01:28:40The fastest way to get out of an ambush is to either, depending on the type, there's linear
01:28:44ones that look like lines or L's.
01:28:46Oftentimes it's to punch through it or to flank, but that requires movement and that's the same
01:28:51thing as that indecision.
01:28:52If you're paralyzed by indecision, you're not going to do anything and the world is going
01:28:56to continue to shift around you and then you're even farther behind the eight ball.
01:29:00I'd rather see people take, maybe even take a step in the wrong direction, but get some
01:29:04momentum going.
01:29:05Obviously correct for your mistake as quick as humanly possible, but dude, get the wheels
01:29:09running, like get the wheels spinning on the road.
01:29:12What are the other traits that matter in life or death situations that people overestimate
01:29:16or underestimate?
01:29:18Emotional control.
01:29:19As ridiculous as that is to say, because it is an emotionally scary event, you have to
01:29:24be able to detach your emotions from your decision making process.
01:29:28You have to be able to function and that is what the test I administered in second phase
01:29:34was a dieting test and it was 20 minutes long.
01:29:36You're tying a bunch of knots in the student's gear and they have to get the knots out in
01:29:42an appropriate procedure.
01:29:43If you deviate from procedure, you fail.
01:29:45We'll pull you out of the water.
01:29:46You get four attempts at the test.
01:29:48So even if you do the knots, but you do them in the wrong way?
01:29:52At a broad level, the mouthpiece that you are breathing out of, if it is in your mouth and
01:29:56I leave it in your mouth as I tie a knot, you have to start from the mouthpiece and work
01:30:00your way back.
01:30:01If I rip it out and tie a knot, you have to start all the way from your manifold and trace
01:30:05it up.
01:30:06And some people will just reach up and put the mouthpiece in their mouth, like dude, you
01:30:09just it's like fail right there, but they can't breathe.
01:30:14And I know that because I can see the inhale and exhale.
01:30:17And if you want to be a dick instructor, your way to all the bubbles come out and go my mouthpiece.
01:30:22If you don't want to be a dick instructor and you want to teach the students, you just
01:30:24tap them on the mouthpiece because it's a one-to-one ratio.
01:30:27This is a one-to-one test.
01:30:29Tap them on the mouthpiece.
01:30:30Let them get a big breath.
01:30:31And then I take the mouthpiece and I tie knots.
01:30:34And there's a variety of different ways that you can do it.
01:30:36And I'm sitting there as an instructor, just floating in a wetsuit with a mask and snorkel
01:30:40on.
01:30:41And you start seeing it.
01:30:42They start like, it's insane.
01:30:45And it's like, cool.
01:30:46I've been there.
01:30:47I know it sucks.
01:30:48Are you going to follow procedure?
01:30:50And at the end of that week, if they pass that test, you sit them down, you know, like for
01:30:54the love of God, please do not go recreational scuba diving.
01:30:57Because you guys don't know a fucking thing about it.
01:30:59This test had absolutely nothing to do with diving and everything to do with stress management
01:31:03and following procedure, regardless of what's going on in the world around you.
01:31:08What's drown proof?
01:31:10Drown proof is an evolution that does not make you drown proof at all.
01:31:13Plenty of seals, unfortunately, have drowned.
01:31:15You get introduced to that in first phase.
01:31:18The final evolution, which is the picture on the front cover is where you have your hands
01:31:21tied behind your back and your feet tied together.
01:31:24And I believe this is 30 years in the rear view mirror.
01:31:29You bob up and down for an hour.
01:31:31You then have to transit the pool all the way to the end and then back after now.
01:31:41This is one of the most relaxing, what I'm about to say is not a recommendation for people
01:31:47to do in their own personal pool.
01:31:49What I'm saying is, as a student, you can only hear them yelling at you as your head
01:31:52is above water.
01:31:53So if you're comfortable, if you're comfortable in the water, I get, if I stay down here, I
01:31:58can't hear Andy shouting at me.
01:32:00It's yeah.
01:32:01Well, I had a bullhorn, so it's like talking at a normal voice with an extremely high decibel
01:32:04level.
01:32:05Yep.
01:32:06Which talking to somebody from six inches from their face with a bullhorn, let me just tell
01:32:09you, it's pretty fun.
01:32:11What are you thinking about right now?
01:32:15Again, generational trauma, it has to be passed downhill because instructors did that to me.
01:32:22It is for an hour.
01:32:24I played water polo in high school, so for me, I was comfortable in the water.
01:32:26And although on the picture on the book, their hands are tied, their feet are tied, but this
01:32:31is also a one-to-one ratio.
01:32:33Half the class is watching the students in the water and there are instructors in the
01:32:37water for safety.
01:32:38So you try not to kill people.
01:32:40We do our absolute best, even though I will say it is essential people die in training
01:32:43from time to time.
01:32:44I can touch on that if you want to after I describe this.
01:32:47But the first time they do this, their feet aren't tied together and they're just holding
01:32:50their fingers behind their back.
01:32:52It's a crawl, walk, run approach.
01:32:53Then we'll use like some Velcro, right?
01:32:55Or maybe just do the legs and then the hands.
01:32:57If you bob up and down, it's honestly, you bounce off the bottom, take a deep breath and
01:33:03you slowly exhale to become negatively buoyant and you bounce.
01:33:06It's really not that bad.
01:33:07The swimming isn't that bad either.
01:33:08Then you get back and they throw a mask into the water and you have to go down, bite it
01:33:13with your teeth, come up and then bob with it for a bunch of times and then the test
01:33:17actually ends.
01:33:18Because that limits the ability for you to breathe or it's just a fucking awkward thing
01:33:22to do?
01:33:23I feel like it's the latter.
01:33:24I have no explanation as to why.
01:33:26And I think there's honestly a somersault in there somewhere too.
01:33:29Scientifically, this isn't justified at all.
01:33:31No, it's not at all.
01:33:32Again, this is just a rolling rock of generational trauma.
01:33:35It's going downhill.
01:33:36And so that is drown proofing.
01:33:39The concept being though, before thriving, let's learn how to survive.
01:33:43It's about control and comfort to the best of your ability in an environment that you
01:33:49can't control and probably shouldn't be comfortable in if you have your feet tied together and
01:33:53your hands tied behind your back.
01:33:54Some people are like, "Oh man, it's just so like, if you guys were taking a hostage on
01:33:58a boat, you can just go do like a dolphin off the side and pour poos out?"
01:34:01I'm like, "Uh, no, that's not what that's for at all."
01:34:05So I'm up like, it's so crazy, and again, I didn't understand a lot of this as a student.
01:34:10This was just the evolution of the day.
01:34:11I'm like, "Okay, cool.
01:34:12Let's go through it.
01:34:13Let's get it done."
01:34:14One of the evolutions of a 50 meter underwater swim.
01:34:17Like why?
01:34:19Why do we do this?
01:34:20Because it freaks people out.
01:34:22And that's exactly why we, is it, do you really need to be able to do a 50 meter underwater
01:34:27swim?
01:34:28I don't think so.
01:34:29I hope not.
01:34:30That would suck.
01:34:31I don't want to do one, but you do it in training because it scares the shit out of the students.
01:34:35And it's again, it's a one-to-one and the instructors are doing the best they can to
01:34:38make you nervous beforehand.
01:34:40How are they doing then?
01:34:43We have many tricks and tools.
01:34:45Well, here, is it 2026?
01:34:48Okay.
01:34:49Statute of limitations has probably expired on this.
01:34:50So we would often grab the foreign students first that were augmented training.
01:35:00They were paid to be there by their host country and we couldn't really get rid of them anyway.
01:35:05And so like the diving test.
01:35:07When you're, so the 50 meter underwater swim is a great example, but the diving test or
01:35:12even the tread is even better.
01:35:14We have scuba tanks on your back.
01:35:16You have your fins on, a weight belt on, and you have to tread water with, to the wrist
01:35:20or about where the watch would be with your hands out for five minutes.
01:35:25Five or six students are going at a time.
01:35:27Everybody else is on the pool deck, but their back is to the pool so you can only hear it.
01:35:33So if you were to grab a subpart performer and they were to lose their shit and everybody
01:35:42else had to hear that wondering what in the absolute fuck was happening, knowing that they
01:35:47have to go next, thinking that they were prepared, sounding like somebody sounds like they're
01:35:52just like talking to a dinosaur and then is being pulled unconscious out of the water and
01:35:56being slapped back to life by a dude with seven years of medical school.
01:36:01Just one way.
01:36:06The noises, you could just see people just like, God, you know, like, God, I love my job.
01:36:13It just, it warms your soul like a candle that starts a forest fire, you know.
01:36:17And what about the underwater swim?
01:36:20Same thing.
01:36:21Just people struggle with that.
01:36:22They make noises when they come out.
01:36:24Well only when they pass out.
01:36:25Of all the evolutions in training, that is the only one I'm aware of that if you pass
01:36:29out, so you jump into the water, front somersault, front somersault sucks.
01:36:34I don't know.
01:36:35I don't know.
01:36:36Well, it's just, it's weird.
01:36:38It interrupts because anybody could like run and jump and dive and carry the momentum.
01:36:42Right.
01:36:43And it like screws with your ability to hold your breath like just enough, right?
01:36:47Like we know you can do this, but can you do it the way we ask you to do it for no reason
01:36:51other than we're asking you to do it.
01:36:52So you jump in front somersault, the smart students dive down to the bottom of the pool
01:36:57because it compresses your lung a little bit more.
01:36:59It makes it easier to hold your breath than maybe six inches above the surface or below
01:37:03the surface.
01:37:04You get the other side, you touch the other side, you have to do another fucking front
01:37:07flip.
01:37:08And I think that's just so you can't push off actually.
01:37:10Now that I think about it, you start coming back.
01:37:13This is also a one-to-one instructor ratio.
01:37:15So anytime it's one-to-one, it's considered more high risk.
01:37:18This is the only evolution that I'm aware of that as you are, if you can stay down there
01:37:24and do like this last Herculean breaststroke in your four momentum, your head touches the
01:37:29wall as you are unconscious, we will pull you out and you go to the past line.
01:37:33But the noises that students make when they come out of the water, I don't know how to
01:37:39describe it.
01:37:40And it's, it's like a drunk elephant trumpeting or a blue whale surfacing.
01:37:46Is you're trying to get water out of them?
01:37:47No, because they're just unconscious.
01:37:48They're only unconscious for a few seconds, but they're just like, and meanwhile, all
01:37:54the other students are just like, Oh my God.
01:37:57It's wild.
01:37:58And yeah, cause people are like, Oh man, they make you hold your breath in training until
01:38:01you pass out.
01:38:02Right?
01:38:03Like no, actually in every other evolution in the water, if you pass out, you're going
01:38:06to fail for not following procedure because there's a hand signal you can put out.
01:38:10If you need us to come down and get you.
01:38:12But does that not mean you fail too?
01:38:14It means you fail.
01:38:15So that if you get to that point, it means you either didn't follow procedure or you didn't
01:38:21control your, you know what I mean?
01:38:23Like something went awry and that's why you don't get just one and done.
01:38:25You get four attempts at the test.
01:38:27Most people pass it on their third attempt, the dieting test that I administered.
01:38:30Oh, okay.
01:38:31Yeah.
01:38:32You get two attempts on one day and two attempts on the next day with a really, probably great
01:38:36night's sleep.
01:38:37That's rough that you have to know that you've got to go back and do it again.
01:38:41As somebody who passed on their third try, you don't sleep very much.
01:38:44It sucks.
01:38:45And then that night I slept way better, but to go back to chunking.
01:38:52The reason I failed the first two times.
01:38:54The first night I've been met, 30 years ago, I remember there's a knot where your head can
01:38:58get turned to the side and it's just an exhalation knot, meaning you can still inhale and get
01:39:03air, but your head is crimped to the side and you can't blow.
01:39:07It's a regulator, much like Jacques Cousteau would die with.
01:39:09It's two rubber hoses that come to a bit, essentially.
01:39:12So your head is yanked to the left and all you have to do is breathe out of your nose.
01:39:17But down there, you're freaking out because this happens within 30 seconds of starting
01:39:23and a little bit of water is coming into your mouthpiece too, because your head is to the
01:39:26back.
01:39:27I remember the first time that happened to me, I started thinking about the exact thing
01:39:32I was telling myself, "I can't do this for 20 minutes."
01:39:35All I started thinking about was the gap in between the two.
01:39:37Same thing on the second test.
01:39:38By the time I got in the third one, the only thing I was thinking about was the problem
01:39:42that was introduced at that time, which again was the head yanked to the left.
01:39:46I'm like, "Whatever, no problem."
01:39:47Just went back to crawling, meaning as the student, you accept the malfunction.
01:39:51It's not a critical malfunction.
01:39:52You're ready to continue with the test and be like, "Why didn't I just do this first?"
01:39:56That's the only thing I changed.
01:39:59I was like, "One problem at a time, we're going to work it, and that's the only thing that
01:40:02exists in my life is that one problem at a time."
01:40:06Why is it important to have a proper attrition rate for people to actually die?
01:40:11Because the job is very dangerous and I don't want people to die, but if nobody ever died
01:40:15in training, you are not training hard enough.
01:40:18The training has to be a reverse engineering, downstream, real-world requirements of the
01:40:26job that you are expected to do, and it is a dangerous job.
01:40:30You cannot prepare for that by avoiding danger in training.
01:40:34Because if no one ever died, there wouldn't be anything on the line.
01:40:37Ultimately, there wouldn't be a sufficient risk for the guys to know that there's a reason
01:40:42to fear it.
01:40:43Yeah, you wouldn't be pushing hard enough.
01:40:46What's the most common way that people die, drowning?
01:40:50That is not uncommon.
01:40:52The last one I think in the pool was somebody who vomited and then aspirated it while they
01:40:56were underwater.
01:40:59The last soon-to-die in training was post-hell week, and I don't remember the exact medical
01:41:05term, but it was fluid into the lungs, and he made it to the hospital but still expired.
01:41:12You are destroyed at the end of hell week.
01:41:15It's the only week afterwards where they let you walk in tennis shoes.
01:41:20You're wearing life jackets.
01:41:23Sand is abrasive.
01:41:24For people who didn't know this, imagine just basically wearing sandpaper for a week because
01:41:27you're wet and sandy the entire time.
01:41:30It does things to the body, and you're just absolutely destroyed.
01:41:34Most people are nursing an injury anyway throughout training, but that won't get you.
01:41:41What role do you think hardship plays in people's lives?
01:41:46I'm at a place now, as I'm getting closer to 50 than 40, that I actually think the pursuit
01:41:50of an easy life is a mistake.
01:41:53I think that the grind is actually what life is all about.
01:41:57It's not a matter of whether you're going to have a hard life or an easy life.
01:42:01It's your ability to determine how well that you can suffer along the way and try to enjoy
01:42:07the journey.
01:42:08Okay, so as somebody that has either endured or doled out quite a bit of suffering, how
01:42:14do people deal with suffering more effectively?
01:42:18First by acknowledging that sometimes the answer is you are going to suffer instead of looking
01:42:21for a way to avoid it altogether.
01:42:24You don't have to nerf all the corners on tables.
01:42:26Maybe you shouldn't.
01:42:27Maybe it's okay to bang your knee every once in a while in the middle of the night.
01:42:31So I think it actually starts with accepting that if you really want to accomplish something
01:42:36in your life, there's no hack to hard work.
01:42:38I think you should hack as many like for efficiencies, like hack your Gmail inbox, but totally go
01:42:43to town.
01:42:44Hack your business systems.
01:42:49There is no substitute for hard work.
01:42:50Do you have anything in your life that was truly given to you that you didn't work for
01:42:54at all?
01:42:55And then I look at the things that I worked the hardest for and the goals that I set where
01:43:01I'm like, am I out of my mind?
01:43:03Can I actually do this?
01:43:05That's the stuff that I value the most.
01:43:06And then I'm trying to, trying to, emphasis on this, learn how to enjoy that journey more
01:43:13because it's hard and enjoying hard things is it's difficult.
01:43:18What gets in the way of enjoying it?
01:43:21Usually just myself.
01:43:22You know, my biggest enemy throughout my entire life has been myself, you know, waking up knowing
01:43:28your day is going to be difficult or more difficult or choosing to have it be more difficult to
01:43:32do the hard work up front so maybe you can enjoy an easier day later in the week.
01:43:36It's not, you know, it's challenging.
01:43:38I think that's where people struggle, that's where I struggle.
01:43:43It's strange to think that as you get older, you try to make things harder, not easier.
01:43:48Yeah, my goal in life for sure up until let's say exceptionally recently was making things
01:43:53as easy as possible.
01:43:55Everybody's searching for that.
01:43:56And then you just edit, you know, you realize that all the stuff that you got easy just doesn't
01:44:01matter.
01:44:02It's the stuff that sucks, especially if you could share that with your friends.
01:44:04That's the biggest thing I would say I probably miss about the community is that we would
01:44:10do the dumbest, most painful shit ever and laugh about it while we were doing it.
01:44:14Because you were doing it with somebody else.
01:44:17Yeah, totally.
01:44:18It would suck by yourself.
01:44:19I mean, you could do it, but watching somebody else suffer with you and finding joy in that,
01:44:23you know.
01:44:24If you could take one lesson from the SEAL teams and force every young man to learn it,
01:44:29what would it be?
01:44:31Hmm.
01:44:32One lesson.
01:44:33Be cautious.
01:44:34And make sure you know what you're willing to die for because not everything's worth it.
01:44:45Same old.
01:44:52Many times in my life, the things that I thought were the most important ended up being inconsequential
01:44:57because I didn't put enough thought or time and effort into understanding why I wanted
01:45:02to do them.
01:45:03And killing yourself and sacrificing everything in your life and trying to achieve that, you
01:45:08might get it at the end of the day and be the most hollow shell of a human being non-demand.
01:45:16And how do you do that assessment without having to go through?
01:45:18I think you have to slow down a little bit.
01:45:22We seem to be in a world where speed is one of the most important metrics.
01:45:26And I think that's important at times.
01:45:30But do all decisions have to be made in a moment's notice?
01:45:34For me, it's one of the things I really like.
01:45:37If your house is on fire, get the fuck out of your house, right?
01:45:40If your house isn't on fire and you have time to make a decision, think about the decision.
01:45:47Think about your available options and make the most educated one at the time.
01:45:51And then on that journey, keep asking yourself, is this not mean like reinforcing it along
01:45:56the way as opposed to just one decision and then your full back dive straight ahead.
01:46:03I don't think you can get to that point though without making some mistakes on your own.
01:46:07People always ask me, what would you say to your younger self?
01:46:09The truly honest answer is buy Bitcoin, you dipshit.
01:46:12Yes, buy Bitcoin and do 531.
01:46:14That's it.
01:46:15But here's the problem though.
01:46:16If I was 18 and my 48 year old self went back, I'd be like, shut up, dude, I got this figured
01:46:21out.
01:46:22All right, granddad, sit down.
01:46:24Yeah, totally.
01:46:25I'd like to invest in new cars, like to buy high and sell low.
01:46:31It's not a big deal.
01:46:32It's a new investment strategy.
01:46:34Yeah, I wouldn't have listened to myself, but I also probably would not remove the mistakes.
01:46:45I wouldn't remove some key mistakes in my life just to make sure that I learned the lesson
01:46:52from them.
01:46:53I would remove some for sure, because they were unneedless pain and suffering and don't
01:46:58worry.
01:46:59I mean, they were repeats of mistakes that I was already making, but you have to have
01:47:03those mistakes.
01:47:04The fascinating thing about the question, what would you tell your younger self?
01:47:06What advice would you give your younger self?
01:47:08If you answer that, it is almost always the exact advice that you need to hear right now.
01:47:15In the same way that you've got the same feet that you did 30 years ago, you have the same
01:47:18patterns, the same fears, the same coping mechanisms, the same responses when things become stress
01:47:23ful or overwhelming.
01:47:27That means that you're going to be driven by those unconscious, unalchemized trends.
01:47:34Those are going to be the things.
01:47:35They're going to be the shit that you dealt with when you were 18 and you got cut from
01:47:40the baseball team or the way that your first breakup felt and how you coped with it after
01:47:44that.
01:47:46For the most part, those are going to be the dynamics that are going to drive the rest of
01:47:48your life too.
01:47:49That's what you think about, so for me, it would be fearless, like just stop fucking fearing
01:47:54so much.
01:47:55What do you fear the most?
01:47:57Not doing it right, not getting it right.
01:48:00What do you use as your yardstick for that though?
01:48:02Totally superfluous, ethereal, fucking fluffy big cloud of like something going wrong.
01:48:10Things will go wrong and you'll be in the wrong and something will be taken away from you.
01:48:15I don't know what, I don't know by who, but not doing it right, not getting it right, not
01:48:19being enough.
01:48:20I don't know who for or why.
01:48:22All that's going to happen though?
01:48:24Of course.
01:48:25So isn't the juice then in just preparing yourself for that and working your way through it?
01:48:29And then overcoming it.
01:48:30Yeah, of course, which I've done throughout my entire life.
01:48:32But the-
01:48:33I'll be the judge of that, sir.
01:48:34Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:48:35Interestingly, we have a pool and a bunch of knots for you to get stuck into at the minute.
01:48:42All of the things, everybody that's listening, whatever the challenges that you thought was
01:48:45going to destroy you by virtue of the fact that you're listening to this, it hasn't.
01:48:49Can I add one thing to that too?
01:48:50And this is one thing that I wish, I know people hear this, but they don't believe me.
01:48:55Whatever it is you think you're going through, please do not convince yourself that you are
01:49:00the only one struggling with it.
01:49:02My God.
01:49:04If COVID taught us anything that it should be that isolation or even perceived isolation
01:49:11is one of the most damaging things to the human brain.
01:49:14We are, every person I've ever met in my life is more defined by their similarities than
01:49:18by their differences.
01:49:20It is so unfortunate, again, statistically, the world that I come from has a much higher
01:49:26suicide rate than many other occupational fields.
01:49:30And for those that have chosen to leave things behind, oftentimes there are deep sentiments
01:49:35of being isolated and alone and feeling like they were dealing with something that nobody
01:49:40else would or was, or that nobody else would understand, and it's not true.
01:49:47Nobody knows what's coming on behind your eyes, right?
01:49:50I guarantee you and I are probably spending our mental bandwidth worrying about the vast
01:49:57majority of the same shit.
01:49:59But in my mind, I'm like, who could I possibly talk to about this because I'm the only one
01:50:03on earth dealing with this.
01:50:04And the reality is almost everybody is.
01:50:06So we lie to ourself, you isolate, you don't say anything and it ends up getting worse.
01:50:10And it's interesting you said, I don't think that I can do the thing that I need to do for
01:50:16as long as it's going to be required of me.
01:50:19And that's not too dissimilar to one of the most common thoughts that people have before
01:50:23taking their own lives, which is that the world would be better off without me.
01:50:27Or I can't take this anymore.
01:50:29The people around me will be better off without me and I can't continue.
01:50:33And it's the combination of those two things.
01:50:36It's the isolation that's in there too.
01:50:38The wonderful line, the feeling of being alone is one of the most dangerous lies we tell ourselves.
01:50:43I have never asked for help and not received it.
01:50:47And I have been like in tears, overwhelmed with a number of people who saw that I needed
01:50:56help but didn't say anything because they were waiting for me to ask.
01:51:01Well, this is a curse of being competent.
01:51:04The sort of people that listen to this show and read books like yours, they're the kinds
01:51:11of people who, usually in their friend group, are the ones that have got it figured out,
01:51:16you know?
01:51:17They're the ones that are working on their diet, thinking about their sleep pattern, that
01:51:21are reading and doing meditation.
01:51:23Their looks maxing.
01:51:24Everything maxing.
01:51:25Like Thor.
01:51:26He just genetics maxed.
01:51:29And what that means is that if you're the friend that always seems like you've got your life
01:51:35sorted, people tend to not want to come to your aid because, well, fuck, like, you know,
01:51:40he's the guy that I go to.
01:51:42Like, who am I?
01:51:43Who am I?
01:51:44Who am I to help him?
01:51:46Like he's got it sorted.
01:51:47Like it's not on me.
01:51:48Like it's going to be embarrassing or it's going to be whatever.
01:51:51And it's a weird inversion of things that are, there are lots of ways that competence is
01:51:59great, but this is one of the ways where competence can hold you back.
01:52:02And yeah, I think it's.
01:52:05It goes back to the misconceptions about special operations.
01:52:09And by their competence, a country calls upon that community to solve problems when they
01:52:15can't figure out another solution.
01:52:17And by the way, they're not looking for a negative result.
01:52:21They're looking for success.
01:52:22I wrote this essay.
01:52:24This came to me when you were talking about the fact that you stayed in a marriage for
01:52:29longer than you should have done, and that you'd used a skill that had got you a lot of
01:52:35accolade in your military career, but it had damaged you when it came to your relationship.
01:52:43The curse of psychological strength, everyone has a limit, an end to the amount of discomfort
01:52:48that they can cope with.
01:52:49This is obvious physically.
01:52:50Some people can lift more and run further than others, but how much emotional pain, upset
01:52:55or disappointment a person can endure is subtler and harder to detect.
01:52:58It's not apparent in the size of someone's arms, but the capacity of their nervous system.
01:53:02It's not a weight that you can see on squat rack.
01:53:04It's their ability to carry a heavy emotional load.
01:53:06This psychological strength can be a good thing.
01:53:08You're able to handle more than most.
01:53:10You don't bulk at pain.
01:53:11You keep pushing through regardless of how you feel, but too much strength can be a weakness.
01:53:16High performers are particularly vulnerable to this trap.
01:53:20Psychological strength is rewarded almost everywhere.
01:53:22In the gym, it's discipline.
01:53:23In business, it's grit.
01:53:25In public, it's composure.
01:53:26You become the person who can handle it, who doesn't complain, who pushes through when others
01:53:29would quit.
01:53:30Your ability to ignore how you feel and keep moving forward earns admiration, builds your
01:53:35career and creates momentum.
01:53:38But what you are praised for in public, you often pay for in private.
01:53:42Relationships don't reward endurance.
01:53:44They require attunement.
01:53:46If your default strategy in life is to absorb discomfort and override warning signs, you
01:53:50will do exactly that when someone repeatedly hurts you.
01:53:54You'll rationalize it, reframe it, decide it's your job to make it work.
01:53:58And the stronger you are, the longer you can stay.
01:54:02What looks like strength from the outside becomes self-abandonment on the inside.
01:54:06You've trained yourself to believe that struggle is noble and difficulty is meaningful.
01:54:10So when love feels destabilizing, it doesn't register as a warning, it feels like a challenge.
01:54:16And challenges are your thing.
01:54:18But a relationship isn't a marathon to be endured, it's a place to feel safe.
01:54:22The qualities that make you formidable in the arena can quietly make you miserable in your
01:54:26own living room.
01:54:27Let's say that you're dating and feel like a side character in your own relationship.
01:54:31You put them first and they put you sixth.
01:54:33The rupture is regular and the repair is absent.
01:54:36Lower resilience, less stubborn people, would have broken long ago and said, "I'm out."
01:54:42But not you.
01:54:43You're the jocko-willink of psychological suffering.
01:54:46Forget carrying the boats, you'll carry the whole fleet forever.
01:54:50In these situations, you're faced with a much tougher problem.
01:54:53Not how much can you tolerate, but how much do you want to tolerate?
01:54:58Perhaps this is what you had to do as a child.
01:55:00If your needs weren't noticed, your sadness was ignored and your feelings didn't matter,
01:55:03then you become accustomed to pushing through disconnection in order to make those relationships
01:55:08function.
01:55:09If child you learns, "I need to work hard to be loved," then adult you believes, "If
01:55:15I am not loved, I just need to work harder."
01:55:19You've achieved 10,000 hours of ignoring your own needs.
01:55:21You can't tell people how you feel without first worrying about how it will make them
01:55:25feel.
01:55:26You unconsciously believe that suffering is the price of connection and that silent subjugation
01:55:30is noble.
01:55:31You basically think, "I should be able to tolerate the intolerable in order to make this work."
01:55:37What inspired you to write that?
01:55:39Thinking about some of the ways that I'd denied myself prioritization, that I'd pushed through
01:55:49discomfort because I could, because almost everything that was valuable in life had come
01:55:57on the other side of working hard and going through difficulty.
01:56:00So there's just this implicit belief that, "Well, if something's hard, that must mean
01:56:07that there's something valuable on the other side of it."
01:56:09But there is such a thing as pointless suffering.
01:56:14It made me think about the curse of psychological strength and made me think about what you were
01:56:18saying.
01:56:19It made me feel self-reflective as you were writing it.
01:56:21Massively.
01:56:22Massively.
01:56:23I could have easily used...
01:56:25You have a better grasp on the English language than I do, probably because you guys...
01:56:28You guys don't use it properly, but you guys might have.
01:56:30Kind of invented it.
01:56:31Yeah.
01:56:32So yeah.
01:56:33No, that's...
01:56:34Say more.
01:56:35It's good, man.
01:56:37I can hear a startling amount of myself in that.
01:56:42It's tough.
01:56:44Yeah.
01:56:45What people see from the outside isn't always what's going on on the inside.
01:56:48I like that line, "What you are praised for in public, you pay for in private."
01:56:52And it's one of the reasons why, when you look at anybody that's a high performer or
01:56:56somebody that's in the seals or whatever, anybody that's got unusual results typically has unusual
01:57:05inputs and an unusual environment internally too.
01:57:10Normal people get normal results.
01:57:12Weird people get weird results.
01:57:14And the most successful popular in the world, your first response shouldn't necessarily be
01:57:22envy.
01:57:23A lot of the time it should be pity.
01:57:24What happened to you that caused you to do that to yourself?
01:57:27Or at what cost?
01:57:28Yeah.
01:57:29Yeah.
01:57:30What did you have to go through in order to get there?
01:57:31Man, that message is so not put out there.
01:57:36Be careful what you wish for, and envy may not be the first thing that you cross your
01:57:41mind when you see somebody who has something you want.
01:57:44That's the question that I've been most fascinated by on the show for probably about five years
01:57:49now.
01:57:50Unfortunately, it's an anti-meme.
01:57:52If you tell people that the view from the top of the mountain that they are still climbing
01:57:57maybe might not be worth the rest of the journey, it feels to them like you're sucking the oxygen
01:58:02out of the fuel tank.
01:58:04Because fuck your feelings, just work harder.
01:58:09You will get there and glory is waiting for you.
01:58:12The total addressable market for that is 99.999% of people.
01:58:17The people who get there or got close to the top and said, I think this is a false peak.
01:58:22I don't think that what's up there is going to be worth it.
01:58:25Or they got there and said, no, there's a very small number of people who got there and went,
01:58:29it's two mountains.
01:58:31That's the problem.
01:58:32As opposed to this entire game is kind of rigged against me and I actually need to look deeper.
01:58:38I'm not going to fill an internal void with external accolades, et cetera, et cetera, et
01:58:42cetera.
01:58:43It's an anti-meme.
01:58:44It's an anti-meme and it's always going to lose to a much more simplistic, no, no, no,
01:58:48it's just more.
01:58:49The answer is more.
01:58:50You should push for more.
01:58:51Well, especially in a society that celebrates more.
01:58:56It's radical to say that you're satisfied.
01:58:58The most radical thing that you can do in a meritocracy that's capitalist is say, I'm good.
01:59:05It's to be in Montana as opposed to downtown New York city.
01:59:09It's to, I kind of like my life.
01:59:11It's kind of enough for me.
01:59:14And yeah, dude, it's, it's, it's fucking fascinating.
01:59:18And what's more fascinating to me is how many guys have come out of special operations and
01:59:24turned their hand.
01:59:27There's still always the fucking glint in your guys' eyes, the little, yeah, that one.
01:59:32What do you mean?
01:59:33Tell me more.
01:59:34I'm scared you're going to pin me down after we finish up, which actually is my request.
01:59:41It's the turn to fuck, like I really did a lot physically kind of in these three dimensions
01:59:49and then, you know, this is you trying to turn that mirror around, I guess, on yourself and
01:59:56then start to show it to other people too.
02:00:02The most common thing people say to me when they find out about my background, they'll
02:00:07say, first off, dude, you must be crazy.
02:00:10So I skipped that part of it, but they'll say those experiences must have been like unbelievable.
02:00:17And the reality is they were, and they are statistically out of reach for almost everybody.
02:00:25But if I end up doing nothing with that and it only impacts my life and I'm on my deathbed,
02:00:33I will regret not doing something with that.
02:00:36And I think that there is a way to take those experiences and package them in a way that
02:00:44can help people.
02:00:45Because at this point in my life, all I really actually want to do is make the world a little
02:00:52bit better than it was when I came into it.
02:00:54Like that's literally, money is cool.
02:00:56I like nice things as well too, but I'm also at a point in my life, like, okay, I get it.
02:01:00Like I might want the nice thing, but there's no actual happiness from the nice thing.
02:01:04Teaching somebody something or giving them a tool that they can use to just attack a problem
02:01:09in their life.
02:01:10That's fucking awesome.
02:01:11And it is so much more rewarding than a thing that you write a check for.
02:01:16And that's what I'm trying to do with that is to take experiences and tools and lessons
02:01:20that people think they don't have access to and I will be honest with this too.
02:01:24You can learn or be exposed to those lessons in organized sports.
02:01:28It's not like there's no unique creations inside of the military.
02:01:31Yeah, a lot of things are reinforced to a higher degree because the consequences of the environment
02:01:37can get pretty gnarly pretty quick.
02:01:39But if things work in that pressure cooker environment, you're telling me that they're
02:01:42not going to work in your personal and professional life.
02:01:44It'll help you just crush whatever it is that you're trying to do.
02:01:47And that's, I resisted writing something for many years, one, because I talked so much
02:01:52shit about other guys who were SEALs that wrote books and now I'm well deserved and deserving
02:01:57of the other people who are talking shit on me.
02:02:00But I just, I want to try to take those, to create tools, to give people a foundation and
02:02:09a framework to throw it at whatever it is going on in their life.
02:02:13So that they can maybe suffer better.
02:02:17I don't know, that's a great way to put it, but just to attack whatever it is that's going
02:02:22on in their life.
02:02:23Suffer better is a wonderful tagline, dude.
02:02:25If the world went completely sideways from a zombie virus outbreak and we had to put together
02:02:29a militia to save the human race, Andy Stumpf would be my top draft pick.
02:02:33Can you imagine how retarded the rest of the militia would be?
02:02:36Oh, exceptionally.
02:02:38You're the first guy?
02:02:39Yeah.
02:02:40The tip of the spear?
02:02:41Well, the base of the shaft or not.
02:02:43Ah, of course.
02:02:45Andy, you're a fucking legend, dude.
02:02:47I appreciate the hell out of you.
02:02:48Congratulations on this.
02:02:49It's awesome.
02:02:50Worked real hard on it.
02:02:52Yeah.
02:02:53I don't know if you get emails like this, I'm sure you do.
02:02:59Because the internet's a weird place, right?
02:03:00We hit upload and I don't know where anything goes.
02:03:03Your platform is massive and I could not be more proud for what you have built.
02:03:08Thank you.
02:03:09I bet you get emails from people that you'll never meet and they say, you know what?
02:03:14Something I heard you say or a guest say changed the course and trajectory of my life.
02:03:20And that is, I don't, I saved those emails.
02:03:24I have a folder, but a dozen people have reached out and said they chose not to kill themselves
02:03:29because it's something they heard on the podcast.
02:03:33Books are measured by bestseller lists.
02:03:36Fuck all that.
02:03:38I want to hear about people who changed the course of their life because it's something
02:03:42they got from a place that they never thought that they would have access to, but picked
02:03:46this up and realized, holy shit, we are way more simpler and I can use this and I will
02:03:53use it.
02:03:54And you're still going to make mistakes.
02:03:55And I hope you do because you need them, but it'll help you suffer better.
02:03:59Fuck yeah, dude.
02:04:00You're awesome.
02:04:01You're awesome.
02:04:02Congratulations.
02:04:03Thank you, man.
02:04:04Appreciate it.
02:04:05All right.
02:04:06Goodbye everybody.
02:04:07So good.
02:04:08Unreal.
02:04:09Unreal.
02:04:10Thanks again.
02:04:11Thank you very much for tuning in.
02:04:13If you enjoyed that episode, YouTube knows who you are deeply.
02:04:18It thinks you're going to like this one even more.
02:04:20Go on, press it.

Key Takeaway

Achieving difficult goals under extreme pressure requires chunking long-term objectives into immediate, manageable steps to prevent the psychological overwhelm that causes most people to quit.

Highlights

  • Combat personnel avoid operating during high-illumination nights like full moons to prevent visual detection by adversaries using technological surveillance.

  • Drone warfare has evolved from static surveillance platforms to cheap, mass-produced DJI-style units capable of delivering lethal, kinetic payloads.

  • Special Operations forces, such as Navy SEALs, are exceptionally average people tasked with doing exceptional things rather than superhuman beings.

  • Psychological attrition during SEAL training, which can reach a 90% failure rate during winter months, is primarily caused by students becoming overwhelmed by the perceived distance to their goal rather than physical inability.

  • Breaking down massive, long-term goals into microscopic, digestible steps is the most effective method for maintaining performance under extreme duress.

  • High-performance individuals often use psychological strength to suppress warning signs in personal relationships, leading to self-abandonment.

Timeline

Evolution of Modern Warfare

  • High-illumination nights increase the risk of detection for ground operators and aviators.
  • The introduction of cheap, kinetic drone technology has fundamentally altered the danger profile of modern battlefields.
  • AI's current role in warfare is limited to planning and analysis rather than autonomous life-or-death decision-making.

Technological advancements provide both humanizing situational awareness and dangerous, low-cost kinetic options. Combatants now face threats like detonating DJI drones that were previously inconceivable. While AI is advancing, the final decision-making process for high-stakes operations remains tethered to human ground force commanders.

The Reality of Special Operations Selection

  • Mission execution relies on human ground force commanders to authorize operations based on specific criteria.
  • Special operators are exceptionally normal people rather than superhuman caricatures.
  • Successful operators possess the ability to maintain emotional control and follow strict procedures regardless of external chaos.

The myth of the superhuman operator is debunked by observing the broad range of physiological and socioeconomic backgrounds in training. Selection processes prioritize attention to detail and emotional regulation. Instructors enforce these standards to ensure survival, as small errors in high-stakes environments lead to catastrophic failures.

Psychology of Resilience and Quitting

  • Most students quit during training because they become overwhelmed by the distance between their current state and graduation.
  • Chunking tasks into microscopic steps prevents the psychological overwhelm that leads to quitting.
  • Psychological strength can become a liability when used to suppress personal warning signs or stay in destructive relationships.

The primary cause of failure in selection is not physical weakness but psychological inability to manage the perception of time. By focusing only on the immediate task—the next step or breath—operators bypass the paralysis of overwhelm. This same strength, when applied to personal life, often leads high performers to endure toxic environments far longer than necessary.

Leadership and Life After Service

  • Individuals are the authors of their own lives and must take responsibility for their responses to external events.
  • Transitioning out of military service requires a shift in identity from 'what you do' to 'who you are'.
  • High rates of divorce and struggle post-service often stem from the sudden deceleration of purpose.

Identity crisis is a major factor in veteran struggles. When the high-intensity purpose of special operations ends, the sudden shift to daily civilian life can lead to isolation and relationship collapse. Taking authorship of one's life involves accepting responsibility for traits and patterns, rather than blaming external circumstances for one's trajectory.

The Cost of Competence and Hardship

  • Pointless suffering occurs when one assumes that all difficulty inherently leads to value.
  • True strength involves knowing when to walk away from a goal or situation that no longer serves a purpose.
  • Isolation is one of the most dangerous, self-imposed lies that prevents people from seeking necessary help.

Competent individuals often face a paradox where their ability to handle discomfort prevents them from acknowledging when they need assistance. Challenging the assumption that endurance is always noble is necessary for healthy development. Ultimately, suffering better is achieved by chunking challenges and rejecting the false belief that one must navigate life's darkest moments alone.

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