Transcript
00:00:00You have said that your career is built on a lie.
00:00:02Yeah.
00:00:03What's a lie?
00:00:04The lies that can read people's minds.
00:00:06You can't?
00:00:07I can't. I wish I could.
00:00:08Okay.
00:00:10Why does what you do work then if you can't read people's minds?
00:00:14Well, because I'm giving the illusion of reading people's minds, right?
00:00:17That's the skill.
00:00:18That's really...
00:00:19I'm crafting a narrative,
00:00:21which in your mind plays out in such a way,
00:00:23kind of like the way a magic trick works,
00:00:25but the contract is different with the audience.
00:00:27Because most of us, when we watch a magic trick,
00:00:30since we've been young and we kind of first experience magic,
00:00:33we know that what's happening isn't real.
00:00:36De facto, the bird that appeared didn't really appear out of nowhere.
00:00:39The person doing this isn't God.
00:00:41They didn't cut a woman in half for real
00:00:43because you can't actually put her back together, right?
00:00:46Science has established what can and can't be done within reason.
00:00:50That's what we believe.
00:00:51So you can always look and see and say,
00:00:53"Well, there's a gimmick.
00:00:55There's a trick. There's a way that it's being done."
00:00:57And the funny part about what I do,
00:00:59it's called mentalism, it's a form of magic,
00:01:01is that you can't really find how it's being done
00:01:04because there's never that trick.
00:01:07There's never the gimmick.
00:01:08There's never the thing that you do to do it
00:01:10because it's a pure art.
00:01:11It's very similar to stand-up comedy.
00:01:13I can show up with nothing.
00:01:14I could do a show today for thousands of people with literally nothing.
00:01:17A marker helps, a pad of paper helps,
00:01:20but it's not mandatory.
00:01:22Is that, you know, when you talk about the prestige,
00:01:24when people talk about the reveal at the end,
00:01:26that's kind of the thing that appears to be missing.
00:01:28The abracadabra, the ahh.
00:01:30Well, it's not, so we still get that moment of the wow, the ta-da.
00:01:34But the lead up to it typically doesn't have any form
00:01:39of something that looks like it's doing the trick,
00:01:42if that makes sense.
00:01:43It appears to be just a test of wills
00:01:45where I've trained my mind to see and observe things about you
00:01:49or influence you in such ways
00:01:50that the method seems to really be mind reading.
00:01:54And that's the illusion I'm trying to present.
00:01:55Who is the greatest mentalist from history, in your opinion?
00:01:59That's a tough question.
00:02:00I mean, there's a guy in the UK named Darren Brown
00:02:02who's really been the godfather the last like two or three decades,
00:02:07I would say, who broke ground.
00:02:09You can't really throw, there's a guy named Kreskin,
00:02:11the amazing Kreskin, who in the US was on The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson.
00:02:15I don't even know how many times, over 80,
00:02:17and he was a real character and performed.
00:02:19He created that whole motif.
00:02:21But all of this started, don't quote me on this,
00:02:23but about a hundred years ago
00:02:25where people used to just pretend to be psychics
00:02:27or, depending on what you believe, were psychics.
00:02:29And then magicians kind of observe the way psychics do their tricks
00:02:33or whatever you want to call them.
00:02:35Maybe they're doing it real, maybe they're not.
00:02:36But they found methods.
00:02:38And the key thing to understand that's different between a psychic and me
00:02:41is what I'm doing is learnable, repeatable, and based in science.
00:02:45Those very important things.
00:02:47You can't teach someone to be a psychic.
00:02:48I've never met a psychic that could teach me to also be a psychic.
00:02:51I could teach you to be a – no, but it's true.
00:02:53It's really – and then it's not always repeatable.
00:02:56So if you're a psychic, let's do this three times.
00:02:59Talk to my dead grandma three times.
00:03:01I'm going to ask you three questions, answer all three.
00:03:03It's not like that, right?
00:03:04It's what's in the ether.
00:03:05It's a little bit more ethereal, if you will.
00:03:08And then it's rooted in science.
00:03:10I can explain to you the method in everything I do.
00:03:13Most other mentalists can explain to you how I do most of what I do.
00:03:15Not all, and that's what can set you apart.
00:03:18But that's the key.
00:03:19There is a method.
00:03:20There's something I'm doing a set of steps.
00:03:22What are the component parts?
00:03:24What are the core principles of being a good mentalist?
00:03:28I think knowing how to build rapport, how to establish trust.
00:03:33Same things that a hypnotist can do.
00:03:34Same thing that a good salesperson can do.
00:03:36The same thing that a great con man can do are very important.
00:03:39If you can't get people to trust you and work with you, it won't work.
00:03:44I'm not hypnotizing people to cluck like a chicken.
00:03:47We're having a fun experience together.
00:03:48So you're winning them over.
00:03:50I would say charisma is important.
00:03:52I would say resilience is really important.
00:03:55It's a lot of core foundational skills that are useful in all of life.
00:03:59So resilience is really important because it doesn't work at the beginning.
00:04:02So you don't, I've never met somebody who was a mentalist who was good at the start.
00:04:07It's very similar to stand-up comedy.
00:04:09You rarely find someone who's been doing stand-up comedy six months who's incredible and is headlining Madison Square Garden.
00:04:15There were 10 or 20 years of work to become an overnight success for most of those people.
00:04:20The same thing applies.
00:04:21It's the same core skill.
00:04:24You talk about reading micro expressions, body language.
00:04:27That's part of it.
00:04:28How accurate is that in practice?
00:04:31How much can you detect from being able to see what's going on with someone's micro expressions, their face, their body language?
00:04:39I don't have an easy answer to that because it depends on the scenario.
00:04:41Does that make sense?
00:04:43A big part of what I do is create an illusion that you can generalize my skills to everything.
00:04:50Does that make sense or no?
00:04:51Because I can explain it what it means.
00:04:52I create a very specific scenario that looks, it should look impossible.
00:04:57It should be very entertaining and should be a story you tell to lots of people.
00:05:00People, well, if you can do that, then remember that then the then connector is what people fill in the blanks.
00:05:06And it's not always true.
00:05:08And that's the honest truth is that I create an impression of being able to do everything.
00:05:11Should I give you an example, but I don't know if we're too early in the game.
00:05:14No, no, let's do it.
00:05:15But I told your team to get a deck of cards and they bought two decks of cards, overachievers, modern wisdom.
00:05:20Correct.
00:05:20Take, should we put the glass on, grab a deck?
00:05:23Yeah, I'm not going to put the glasses on.
00:05:24It doesn't matter.
00:05:26And open it up, I don't want to touch it.
00:05:27All right.
00:05:28Crack it open.
00:05:29Cracking.
00:05:30There should be, I'm assuming this is where CVS, Walgreens, I don't know where you got it.
00:05:34Are there, there should be Joker and fake cards and whatever.
00:05:37Joker.
00:05:37I don't know what there is.
00:05:38I have not touched these, but take everything out that's not a real card.
00:05:41There's something advertising YouTube.
00:05:43There's some rules.
00:05:44There's two Joker cards.
00:05:45And please shuffle them up to your heart's content.
00:05:49Like mix, they're in order right now if they came out of the box.
00:05:51It's a brand new deck.
00:05:52Yeah, it looks that way.
00:05:53Are you a good shuffler?
00:05:54No, horrendous, but I...
00:05:56At least you're honest.
00:05:57Yeah, dude, I've got, I've got certain skills, but shuffling cards is not one.
00:06:00Shuffling cards is not one of them, huh?
00:06:02I imagine that this is something that you do in your sleep.
00:06:05So I was a magician before I was a mentalist.
00:06:07Okay.
00:06:07It's kind of akin to doing pre-med before you go to school and become a doctor before you become a surgeon or a plastic surgeon.
00:06:14Mm-hmm.
00:06:15I used when I quit my job on Wall Street as many metaphors to becoming a plastic surgeon or doctor to convince my Jewish mother that I wasn't throwing away my life.
00:06:23Um, okay.
00:06:26All right, I think that's moderately well shuffled.
00:06:29Yeah, but anybody watching this and they're going to assume, so magic is sleight of hand.
00:06:33As soon as I touch these cards, everything's out the door because I could touch them and do something.
00:06:37Does that make sense?
00:06:38Yes, and truly that's the honest truth.
00:06:40If you hand me these cards, I could cheat 10, 10 ways from Sunday.
00:06:44So here's what I want you to do.
00:06:45I don't want this to be about the cards.
00:06:46The cards are meaningless.
00:06:47I just want to show you how you could generalize the skill.
00:06:50Do you feel like these are mixed?
00:06:51I think so.
00:06:52Okay.
00:06:53So if you feel good, if not, by all means we can shuffle more, but it's inconsequential because I'm not going to touch them.
00:06:58They're pretty mixed.
00:06:59Okay.
00:07:00Yeah.
00:07:01Yeah.
00:07:02I did a good job.
00:07:03Good.
00:07:03I did good.
00:07:04Mix them again.
00:07:04Do whatever you want.
00:07:05I don't care.
00:07:05Put them down in front of you.
00:07:06Yep. Okay, so you know where I can see them.
00:07:08And what I want you to do is take and how do I describe this effectively?
00:07:13In a casino, they always tell you to lift off a piece.
00:07:15It's kind of like a cut.
00:07:16So I want you to lift off.
00:07:18It could be a little, it could be a lot, but place a piece over to the side.
00:07:21You're going to go for a little.
00:07:22Do you feel good about that?
00:07:23I feel great.
00:07:24Would you like to do it again?
00:07:24It's completely your choice.
00:07:25I feel great about that.
00:07:26Okay, so see where you cut to, grab the card, bring it close to your body.
00:07:29This top one?
00:07:30I honestly couldn't care less.
00:07:31If that doesn't feel right, do it.
00:07:32Cut again.
00:07:33Cut somewhere different.
00:07:34And take this card, here's what I want you to do. Very important.
00:07:36I want you to take and I want you to bring it very close to you against, and bring it close to your body.
00:07:40And make sure I can't see and look at it.
00:07:42Do you see it?
00:07:43See it.
00:07:44And now look at me.
00:07:45Right now, it's one out of 52.
00:07:48Are we in agreement?
00:07:49If not, we start over.
00:07:50Because you want to change.
00:07:51So you ask me what has to do with actual physical parameters like observing you.
00:07:57Google right now, if you want to Google this, Google is muscle reading real?
00:08:01Is muscle reading real?
00:08:04Look at it up, because right now you're saying, well, this can't be real.
00:08:06Literally, if you want to Google it right afterwards, you could Google is muscle reading real?
00:08:10Everybody do that.
00:08:11The ideometer response.
00:08:12Scientifically.
00:08:13It's real.
00:08:15You can see things in people that will give away the answer.
00:08:19Watch. Try not to react.
00:08:20Cover the card.
00:08:21Put it away.
00:08:21I don't care what you do with it.
00:08:22Think red, black, red, black, red, black, hearts, diamonds, club spades, hearts, diamonds, club spades.
00:08:28Ace, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, Jack, Queen, King.
00:08:32It's a black card.
00:08:34It's a spade.
00:08:35It's the King of spades.
00:08:36Turn it over.
00:08:37How do we do?
00:08:37Fuck you.
00:08:40No.
00:08:46Now, what somebody would think in this scenario, one is the card trick, but it's not because I didn't touch the cards ever.
00:08:52You could do this again with any cards.
00:08:53It doesn't matter at all.
00:08:55In fact, try this, try this, try this.
00:08:59Take the cards, put them all together.
00:09:01Yep.
00:09:02And mix them one more time, please.
00:09:04Okay.
00:09:04You know what's dumb?
00:09:05I actually forgot that that was the name of it.
00:09:08And for the first half of it, while you were looking at me, I thought it was clubs.
00:09:13Only after that, when you said go through it, I was like, oh, that's why I checked again.
00:09:17Interesting.
00:09:18And then you got it right.
00:09:19No, but you got it right.
00:09:20You got it right when you were going through the first time.
00:09:22I was like, and then that's why I checked again.
00:09:23I was like, oh, fuck, no, that's a spade.
00:09:25If you would have thought it differently, the funny part about it, I would have gotten what you thought and not what was wrong.
00:09:30User error.
00:09:30Right.
00:09:31All right.
00:09:31Mix them again.
00:09:32Mix them again, please.
00:09:33Now, here's where you could generalize the skill.
00:09:35So let me ask you a question here.
00:09:37Do you know how to play poker?
00:09:39Badly.
00:09:39But do you know how the rules of games, like how a pair, three of a kind, two pair, flush, you know, all the rules?
00:09:45Yeah.
00:09:46Okay.
00:09:47Broadly.
00:09:50Okay, mixed.
00:09:51If you want to put it on the table, kind of mix, do whatever you want.
00:09:53I just want you to feel like we're good.
00:09:55I've done the mixing, dude.
00:09:57I'm aware that I can do this ad infinitum and you're still going to be able to guess it.
00:10:00People are going to watch this and go, "Why couldn't he mix better?"
00:10:02That's what I know.
00:10:03Take, and I want you to, I'm teasing you.
00:10:05That's my skill.
00:10:05Lift off, like a chunk, it could be a little, it could be a lot, and put one to the right.
00:10:10Perfect.
00:10:12Pick up another and put one to the left.
00:10:13Wonderful.
00:10:14If you saw me, right, guessing one card, why am I here right now?
00:10:20Think about this.
00:10:21You shuffled the cards, you made them three piles, why don't we just go to Vegas and why don't I just play poker?
00:10:25Let's monetize the skill.
00:10:27Please.
00:10:28It's not necessarily generalized to everything.
00:10:31You've shuffled these, you made three piles of your own volition.
00:10:34Is that true?
00:10:35Yes.
00:10:36Pick up any one of the piles, please.
00:10:38Put it in your left hand.
00:10:41Like this, like as if you're going to deal poker.
00:10:44And pick up another one of the piles.
00:10:47That feels right?
00:10:48Put it on top so you're kind of reassembling.
00:10:50Pick up the last one, put it on top as well.
00:10:52You've cut the deck three times.
00:10:54And here's what you do.
00:10:55I want you in front of you over there to deal one, two, three, four, five cards face down in front of you, please.
00:11:02You can put them on top however you want.
00:11:03You're going to take those cards yourself.
00:11:04Okay.
00:11:05No, bring them close to you.
00:11:06Okay.
00:11:07I'm just getting them in.
00:11:07Perfect.
00:11:08Grab them all, put the deck away.
00:11:11And bring it close to you.
00:11:13So there's no way I could see.
00:11:15And see if you, what your poker hand is.
00:11:17Now don't tell me.
00:11:19But this becomes more monetizable than guessing one card.
00:11:25And close the cards and bring them close to your body.
00:11:28Do you know what poker hand you have?
00:11:29Yes.
00:11:30Now again, statistically, you probably have nothing.
00:11:34Because that's what happens in most poker games.
00:11:37Hmm, but you seemed a little happy.
00:11:39How happy did you feel?
00:11:41We don't know.
00:11:41You also said you don't play poker very much.
00:11:43So I'd have to observe you for much longer.
00:11:45But a pair would be the worst hand.
00:11:47The next one would be two pair, three pair.
00:11:51We would have a straight or a flush or straight flush.
00:11:55This isn't a card trick.
00:11:56This is just watching you.
00:11:59And it's seeing where was their response.
00:12:01Statistically, again, I've never touched the cards.
00:12:04This isn't a card trick.
00:12:05This isn't about sleight of hand.
00:12:08I think you have two pair.
00:12:10And hold on, hold on, hold on.
00:12:11Before you do this, don't do anything.
00:12:12Hold on.
00:12:13Don't tell me anything about it.
00:12:15I think the pairs, too, I would describe them
00:12:18as both relatively low.
00:12:19That's my feeling.
00:12:20Do me a favor right now.
00:12:23Nothing jumped.
00:12:24I bet you there's no face cards.
00:12:25I want you to take and lay the cards out in front of you
00:12:28one at a time, face down in front of you in any order you want.
00:12:30Just lay them in a row of five in front of you, please.
00:12:34OK.
00:12:38Eights.
00:12:41Was there a pair of eights?
00:12:42Yes.
00:12:43There was.
00:12:44See, when I said low, you didn't know what to say.
00:12:47You were confused, because is that low?
00:12:50It's right in the middle.
00:12:51I don't know.
00:12:51It's right in the middle.
00:12:52That's the difficulty.
00:12:54I don't care what the poker hand is.
00:12:55Do you want to know why?
00:12:56Why?
00:12:57Because from the day you were born until today,
00:13:02a card trick will not be something you remember.
00:13:04It won't.
00:13:06So I'm going to show you something
00:13:08that you will remember.
00:13:09I'm scared.
00:13:10Are you ready?
00:13:11Because you put these five cards down from the day
00:13:14you were born until today.
00:13:17What month were you born in?
00:13:19Could you tell me, please?
00:13:20February.
00:13:21February.
00:13:22What day?
00:13:2423rd.
00:13:2623rd of what year?
00:13:27'88.
00:13:28'88.
00:13:29Dude, no.
00:13:34No, no, no, no.
00:13:41No.
00:13:42Fuck.
00:13:44I can't tell if it's better or worse,
00:13:46given that you're wearing that mask right now.
00:13:47I can't tell.
00:13:48I didn't even realize.
00:13:55I didn't even realize.
00:13:56You're terrifying.
00:14:03You're a terrifying human.
00:14:04You know, we were talking about cults before we got started.
00:14:11I'm starting one now.
00:14:11Are you joining?
00:14:12Yes.
00:14:13Yes.
00:14:13Yes.
00:14:14Tell me.
00:14:14We all need to-- tell me what--
00:14:16this is broken already, Jared.
00:14:17We got six.
00:14:18It's OK.
00:14:19Good.
00:14:20Dude, that's unbelievable.
00:14:21I think you're broken, too.
00:14:28It's very disconcerting.
00:14:40Where do we even go from here?
00:14:41This is the first one.
00:14:42I don't know, dude.
00:14:45Holy shit.
00:14:47OK.
00:14:47OK.
00:14:48OK.
00:14:48OK.
00:14:49That's it from the day you were born until today.
00:14:51Put these away.
00:14:52That was just a fun warm-up.
00:14:53I didn't want to throw these out there that early.
00:14:55OK, well--
00:14:55That's the worst thing I'm going to do.
00:14:57OK.
00:14:57Holy shit.
00:14:58Thanks, man.
00:15:02Thanks.
00:15:03Now I feel like I'm going to get jump-scared
00:15:05by a ghost or something.
00:15:08So you mentioned that story is a big part of it,
00:15:12that being able to build in more than just being the trick.
00:15:16Well, I think that's the key because the story you tell
00:15:19is the true power of what I do and what provides longevity
00:15:23and has been my secret to success, which is for years,
00:15:26I didn't realize what I was selling,
00:15:28which I think is a core principle that a lot of people
00:15:30don't realize.
00:15:31And when I say selling, people always think that means money.
00:15:34I'm not talking about money.
00:15:35All of us are salespeople in life.
00:15:37We don't realize it.
00:15:38You and me, right now, we're selling attention.
00:15:40You're selling people watching and listening to this program
00:15:43because if they stop, your business is done
00:15:45and it took a long time to grow this, right, your equity.
00:15:47So I asked myself, what was I selling?
00:15:49For the longest time, I thought I'm selling.
00:15:51I'm amazing.
00:15:52Look at me, right?
00:15:52It's a very narcissistic approach.
00:15:54I can do a cool trick.
00:15:55Why does that matter to you?
00:15:57And then I started inverting the question saying,
00:15:59why does it matter to anyone else?
00:16:00It shouldn't matter.
00:16:01Who cares?
00:16:02Sure, it's an escape.
00:16:03Sure, it's fun.
00:16:04I could do the same thing as 98% of my competitors
00:16:07and realize it's cool, that's great.
00:16:09I realized what's going to differentiate me
00:16:11is when I make it about other people.
00:16:14So the way the story gets told, the way a thing is remembered
00:16:16is much more emotionally impactful
00:16:18if it has something to do with the person watching you, right?
00:16:21That moment that connects with them, where--
00:16:24that was a card trick, so to speak.
00:16:26But the card trick, when you recount it to somebody,
00:16:28will be completely different.
00:16:30Because when I just guessed two pair in a poker hand,
00:16:33that wasn't that meaningful.
00:16:35But when you sit back and rethink this through and go,
00:16:37you shuffled these cards.
00:16:38I cut them a bunch of times.
00:16:39And then it was the date of my birth.
00:16:42Like, how could that be, right?
00:16:44That story is going to get told in a very different way
00:16:46and hopefully for months and years to come.
00:16:49And that's a very small parallel.
00:16:50But when I perform, I always make it about the people watching.
00:16:53If it's for an NFL team, it's going
00:16:55to be what matters to the football viewer.
00:16:58Somebody who's not a fan of me, I came along for the ride.
00:17:02I'm trying to catch new people and have them buy into me
00:17:05and what I do.
00:17:06And doing that is making it all about them.
00:17:08Like, when I do my shows, if you come watch my show,
00:17:10the audience is the star of the show.
00:17:12I don't mean that in a cliche New Age.
00:17:13I mean, literally, I don't have a show without the audience.
00:17:17I'm panning for gold.
00:17:19And my version of gold is genuine, authentic reactions.
00:17:21People freaking out.
00:17:23And other people, even if you're not in,
00:17:25observing that and feeling that same feeling.
00:17:28Because wonder is kind of universal.
00:17:31Music isn't.
00:17:32Comedy isn't.
00:17:33There's almost nothing that is universal.
00:17:36There's a few things, right?
00:17:38But wonder is one of them.
00:17:40That's like hardwired into our DNA.
00:17:42We'll get back to talking in just one second.
00:17:44But first, tell me if this sounds familiar.
00:17:46You train regularly.
00:17:47You eat reasonably well.
00:17:48Maybe you even supplement.
00:17:49You feel fine.
00:17:51But you're just kind of going off vibes.
00:17:53Most people have absolutely no idea
00:17:55what's going on inside of their body, which
00:17:56is why I partnered with Function.
00:17:58Function gives you access to more than 160 advanced lab tests
00:18:02banning hormones, heart health, metabolic markers, inflammation,
00:18:05thyroid, nutrients, liver, and kidney function.
00:18:08It even detects early signals linked
00:18:10to more than 50 types of cancer.
00:18:12To put that in perspective, your typical annual physical
00:18:15might test about 20 markers.
00:18:17And Function runs over 160.
00:18:19And this isn't just numbers dumped into your inbox.
00:18:22Every result is reviewed by clinicians.
00:18:24Abnormal markers get flagged.
00:18:25And you get clear explanations and a personalized protocol
00:18:28with actionable next steps so you can actually
00:18:30do something about what you learn.
00:18:32Best of all, you test twice a year.
00:18:34And everything lives in a simple dashboard.
00:18:36You can just track trends over time,
00:18:37make sure that you're moving in the right direction.
00:18:39Normally, this level of testing would cost thousands
00:18:41through private clinics.
00:18:42With Function, it is $365 a year.
00:18:46That's $1 a day to know what's actually
00:18:48happening inside of your body.
00:18:50And right now, you can get $25 off, bringing it down to $340.
00:18:54Get the exact same blood panels that I get.
00:18:56And save that additional $25 by going to the link
00:18:59in the description below.
00:19:00Or heading to functionhealth.com/modernwisdom
00:19:03and using the code modernwisdom at checkout.
00:19:05That's functionhealth.com/modernwisdom
00:19:07and modernwisdom at checkout.
00:19:10There's a cool story about Jenny Jerome.
00:19:12It's Winston Churchill's mother.
00:19:13And she got to dine with Prime Minister William Gladstone
00:19:17and his rival Benjamin Disraeli on consecutive nights.
00:19:20And when she left the dinner after sitting next to Gladstone,
00:19:23she said, "I left feeling that he was
00:19:25the cleverest man in England."
00:19:27And the following night after sitting next to Disraeli,
00:19:29she said, "I left feeling like I was the cleverest woman."
00:19:32Nice.
00:19:32That's perfect.
00:19:33And it's this wonderful example of what Alain de Botton
00:19:36calls reverse charisma or inverse charisma.
00:19:39Some people are interesting.
00:19:40Some people make you feel interesting.
00:19:42Right.
00:19:42Why is it that around certain friends, we have lots to say?
00:19:46Around other people, we don't have so much.
00:19:49Right.
00:19:49You go, well, no.
00:19:50It's how much they encourage us to dig deeper
00:19:54and to think about ourselves.
00:19:55How much of us they can tolerate or they
00:19:58seem like they're willing to hold on to.
00:20:01How prepared are they to open up about their experience
00:20:05that makes us feel like we have the headroom
00:20:06to be able to do it about ourselves.
00:20:08And I think, yeah, a lot of people want to develop charisma.
00:20:11They want to, me, me, me, look at how impressive I am.
00:20:13They want that aura to be electric
00:20:14and the stories to be energizing
00:20:15and everyone in the room to walk in and just...
00:20:19But when I think about the people
00:20:21that I like spending the most time with,
00:20:23it's not always the ones that are the most interesting.
00:20:26It's the ones that make me feel the most interesting.
00:20:29I think that's 100% true.
00:20:30And the power of silence that people don't really observe
00:20:33or realize.
00:20:34And it took me so many years.
00:20:36A comedian, if they step on their own jokes,
00:20:38if you tell another joke while people are laughing,
00:20:42it's known as stepping on.
00:20:43You're taking away some of their laughter.
00:20:45You're taking away some of the feeling.
00:20:46You cut it short.
00:20:47It took me years and years to realize
00:20:49that when people start reacting in a performance, I stop.
00:20:53Because it will continue.
00:20:54It's like sometimes it's an avalanche that continues.
00:20:57And in fact, we're shooting pretty soon a special.
00:21:00I think I can talk about a Netflix special.
00:21:02And one of the big things we talked about is
00:21:04when you normally watch a show, you watch on stage.
00:21:07We have more cameras pointing into the audience than on stage
00:21:10because when people sit back down
00:21:12after they've experienced it,
00:21:14that's the best moment by far.
00:21:16No, but it's not even that.
00:21:17It's because they don't feel like they're on camera anymore.
00:21:19When you're standing, the spotlight's on.
00:21:20Action.
00:21:21When you sit down, you get to unpack what just occurred.
00:21:24And it feels as if you're no longer on camera.
00:21:27I liken it to, you know when you cook a steak,
00:21:29how all the juices come in?
00:21:30If you just take the steak and put it on a plate,
00:21:32you don't pour the juices.
00:21:33That's the most delicious part of it.
00:21:35That's what gives it all the juiciness.
00:21:38It's like the real flavor.
00:21:40That happens in my show when people sit
00:21:42and they turn to the person next to them.
00:21:44And they're like, "What the fuck?"
00:21:45And he's like, "I don't know, man."
00:21:46He goes, "How do you, I don't know me."
00:21:48Like that right there, the real part, when I leave the room
00:21:52and you guys, that's the best part.
00:21:54That's where you want to leave the tape recorder on.
00:21:55That's where you want to hear what people really say.
00:21:58He goes, "Dude, I don't know how you did that.
00:22:00I changed my mind in the middle.
00:22:01Howdy."
00:22:02That's the best part.
00:22:04That for me is the real joy.
00:22:06Sitting with silence is something that takes a lot of skill.
00:22:09To realize that there's a third participant,
00:22:12if you're ever doing any kind of performance,
00:22:13especially if it's between two people,
00:22:15you and your person that's on stage,
00:22:17there's a third participant or 3,000 participants,
00:22:20not all of the people that are watching.
00:22:22And allowing that to sit,
00:22:24allowing the sort of wonder to hang a little bit.
00:22:26When it comes to storytelling,
00:22:29not everybody is going to be prestiging their way
00:22:31through some date of birth revealing card trick.
00:22:36Telling stories more generally,
00:22:37what are some of the principles that you think about
00:22:39when it comes to telling a good story?
00:22:42I think this applies, there's a parallel,
00:22:44which is you're not going to probably learn
00:22:45to be a magician or a mentalist,
00:22:46but the core skills that I have
00:22:49are ones that are interchangeable in life.
00:22:52Asking yes or no questions
00:22:54gives you yes or no answers.
00:22:55Doors get closed, right?
00:22:57The more you can give a branching tree
00:22:59and ask questions that haven't been asked before.
00:23:01So a lot of what I do is I design my ideas
00:23:04with the end goal in mind.
00:23:06I literally know what I want the ending to be
00:23:08and then I work backwards from there.
00:23:10Does that make sense?
00:23:11I know, I observe that, for example,
00:23:13I just did something on Fox Business last week.
00:23:15I'm going to be on CNBC next week.
00:23:17I'm watching what do people care about right now?
00:23:19Truly, this is a unique time.
00:23:21There's chaos in the Middle East.
00:23:23Gas prices are going up.
00:23:24Most people are in debt.
00:23:26People care about what's the price of gas going to be.
00:23:28And I went on there and I made up the story,
00:23:30but the story, the hook at the beginning is I said,
00:23:33there's four Fs that matter most to all of us,
00:23:35family, friends, faith, finances.
00:23:39So you're going to say fuel?
00:23:40Yeah, damn it, Chris, I need you on payroll.
00:23:44But yeah, it was on Fox News, so faith was important.
00:23:47But I said that, that's a good one though,
00:23:50is that you just needed to, the hook,
00:23:53the interesting part at the beginning is
00:23:56you want to liken something that somebody can say,
00:23:57oh yeah, that makes sense.
00:23:59It makes sense to me.
00:24:00And right away, I brought it back
00:24:02to what are gas prices going to be?
00:24:04How does this affect people around the country?
00:24:05And it tied together.
00:24:07And again, you're not going to do this as a mentalist,
00:24:09but most people, I think they're an autopilot.
00:24:12And when they ask someone else a question
00:24:14or when they meet someone, they slip into,
00:24:16just like in an airplane, autopilot.
00:24:19After you take off and until you land,
00:24:21the plane is mostly flown by a computer
00:24:24that just does if this, then this, if this, then this.
00:24:27We operate 95% of our lives in that exact fashion.
00:24:31You meet someone, is it like fight or flight?
00:24:34What do I ask them?
00:24:34Oh, what do you do?
00:24:35Okay, where are you from?
00:24:36And yes, you can do that.
00:24:37I'm not saying to be like a weirdo,
00:24:39but if you scratch below the surface and think
00:24:42of the first question, second question,
00:24:44third question you want to ask them,
00:24:45and then, oh, what's the fourth?
00:24:47Ask them the fourth first.
00:24:48You're much more likely to hit a question
00:24:52that they haven't been asked recently
00:24:54that jars them out of autopilot themselves.
00:24:56Where they go, oh, that's interesting.
00:24:57I never thought of it that way.
00:24:58That's a great question to ask.
00:25:00Something that brings you back
00:25:02to something more introspective.
00:25:03And then, listen, I know that's the craziest part,
00:25:07but most people just simply wait for their turn
00:25:09to speak next.
00:25:11And as soon as you say something that resonates with them,
00:25:13ding, ding, ding, their brain starts saying,
00:25:15I need to say this next, I need to say this.
00:25:16And you're not listening to what they're saying anymore.
00:25:19Read and write are two different operations
00:25:21that rarely work at the same time in our brains.
00:25:23So you have to, it's like my six-year-old has an idea
00:25:26and he wants it and I'm like, put it in the thought bubble,
00:25:28leave it in the thought bubble.
00:25:29Let's come back to it, right?
00:25:31That's the hardest thing.
00:25:31It's hard for me too.
00:25:33But the raising your hand approach
00:25:34and saving the thought is such a challenge
00:25:36in a conversation.
00:25:38- Everybody criticizes the fact
00:25:39that they don't like small talk.
00:25:40It's an almost universal thing that people dislike.
00:25:44The idea of getting into an elevator
00:25:45with somebody that's gonna stop at every floor,
00:25:47trying to hold together some conversation
00:25:49that means nothing to everybody.
00:25:51And yeah, the idea of ridding yourself of the social foreplay
00:25:54and jumping straight to third base
00:25:55or whatever the equivalent is, I think is a good idea.
00:25:58- Well, even asking something that's just different.
00:26:00Like you and I probably encounter far more new people
00:26:03on average than almost anyone.
00:26:05I will meet sometimes thousands of people in a week.
00:26:08It's just a part of my job.
00:26:10So how do you connect with them on a real level?
00:26:12I will stop and try to get everyone's names.
00:26:14If I don't know your name, I'll make sure it was Jared.
00:26:16I want to make sure I got it right.
00:26:16Like that's a very core skill that's so easy to do
00:26:20that most of us just think nothing of.
00:26:22- How can people become better at that?
00:26:23I've met a million people on the front door of nightclubs.
00:26:26- So it's very tough.
00:26:27So in that situation,
00:26:29if you're meeting a bunch of people all at once,
00:26:30it can be overwhelming, right?
00:26:32It's like trying to drink from a fire hose.
00:26:33There are ways to slow it down.
00:26:35There's ways to remember names for short-term purposes.
00:26:37Long-term is very different
00:26:39'cause of the way memory imprints.
00:26:41I gave a TED Talk last year.
00:26:42Most viewed in the world for that year.
00:26:45Humble brag. - Congratulations.
00:26:46- I'm very proud of that though.
00:26:47'Cause I didn't expect it to do that well.
00:26:49And I barely made it to the TED Talk
00:26:51by the skin of my teeth.
00:26:52That's a different story.
00:26:53But if you ask the TED Talk people,
00:26:55the fact that I even made it for the TED Talk
00:26:56was within minutes.
00:26:58Flight was diverted.
00:26:59It landed in Seattle instead of Vancouver.
00:27:01We were on the tarmac for two and a half hours.
00:27:03We're trying to figure out how to get me there
00:27:04am I gonna get in a car and just drive across the border?
00:27:07Finally, it takes off.
00:27:09Anyway, it was very funny.
00:27:10I sprinted faster than any marathon finish I've ever had
00:27:14out of the Vancouver airport.
00:27:15You know when you're changing in a car?
00:27:17How many times have you changed in a car?
00:27:18We were just like in a movie, legs out the window, changing.
00:27:21They're seeing my tighty whities.
00:27:22These underwear were embarrassing.
00:27:24They were not designed for public consumption.
00:27:26Anyways, it was crazy.
00:27:28I don't know how that thing came together.
00:27:29But in it, I taught you how to never forget someone's name
00:27:33after meeting them within two seconds
00:27:35because it's very embarrassing.
00:27:36And so I have a little thing where I've switched up
00:27:40the instructions on a shampoo bottle,
00:27:42which are normally what?
00:27:44Lather, rinse, repeat.
00:27:46Lather, rinse, repeat.
00:27:47Three words, every shampoo bottle.
00:27:48Here's what I say.
00:27:49Listen, repeat, reply.
00:27:51So when you meet someone, most people when they hear a name,
00:27:55they actually didn't forget the name.
00:27:58They actually never knew it in the first place,
00:28:00which sounds so silly.
00:28:01But when they say the name, you weren't listening
00:28:04because your brain is going through a stressful period
00:28:06at that moment.
00:28:06Do you already know them?
00:28:07What's going on?
00:28:08You think of a million things, especially
00:28:09if you're meeting people.
00:28:10There's all different things going on in your brain.
00:28:12So when they said the name, you didn't actually hear it.
00:28:14You don't know it.
00:28:15If you ask them right then, you don't know the name.
00:28:17So right away, the easiest part, listen.
00:28:20Sounds silly.
00:28:21Repeat.
00:28:22I immediately repeat the name twice if I can.
00:28:24What was that, Jared or Jerry?
00:28:26Jared, got it.
00:28:27Listen, repeat.
00:28:28If you've said it twice, your odds go down by over 90%
00:28:31of forgetting it within the next 10 seconds.
00:28:34And then reply involves some sort of a hook.
00:28:37You want to cement the name in your brain.
00:28:39I've got a few different tactics I use.
00:28:40One of them is how to spell it.
00:28:43So this is Jonathan, right?
00:28:44We had Jonathan here.
00:28:45Is that J-O-N-A-T-H-A-N, the two A's, or an O at the end?
00:28:49And then he goes, J-O-N-A-T-H-A-N.
00:28:51Oh, that's the way to spell it.
00:28:52That's the only way, those other guys.
00:28:54So right away, I've said Jonathan three times.
00:28:56I'm going to remember it much more likely.
00:28:58Like it's much more likely it will not disappear.
00:29:01Second, if spelling, if the name is Chris,
00:29:04I'm not going to be like, is that C-H-R-I-S?
00:29:05Yeah, psycho, of course it's Chris, C-H-R-I-S.
00:29:08So you can't spell it.
00:29:10What I might do in that case is pay a compliment,
00:29:12which is, Chris, I love that shirt, man.
00:29:14I haven't seen that logo for Modern Wisdom.
00:29:15Great shirt, Chris.
00:29:16Now I've said it two more times.
00:29:18I've hooked it with a visual, which is Chris wearing the shirt.
00:29:22In your brain, it tends to click more.
00:29:24The third one is I connect it to somebody else I know.
00:29:26So if I met them, I go, Jonathan, I go, that's so funny.
00:29:29I just read a book by that guy, Jonathan Haight.
00:29:31What a great book, Jonathan, good name.
00:29:32Boom, I've just connected it.
00:29:34All of those things can happen in under 10 seconds.
00:29:38It's not that much.
00:29:39People like being complimented.
00:29:40It shows that you care about them
00:29:42and you will now remember their name.
00:29:44It's been a cheat code in life for me
00:29:47because I will meet people and they will feel seen and heard
00:29:50where when I leave, regardless of if I'm really a jerk,
00:29:53they go, oh, he's a nice guy.
00:29:54Right, it connects with you on a level
00:29:57because you're being personable
00:29:59and most people don't take the time to do that.
00:30:01What, how can people become better
00:30:06with memory outside of that?
00:30:08It's not just names.
00:30:09Ebbinghaus, Forgetting Curves, Space Repetitioning stuff.
00:30:12This is a little bit of space repetition
00:30:13with some Mind Palace location-based stuff going in there.
00:30:17It's not full mnemonics
00:30:18because if you're trying to remember people's names for longer,
00:30:20you really have to do a little more
00:30:21kind of like hard wiring and cementing and repetition,
00:30:24but also having something that hooks the person
00:30:27to either a visual, I'm with you.
00:30:30Like Memory Palace is smart.
00:30:31One thing connects to the next, connects to the next
00:30:33and you can build that out.
00:30:34How many people can remember that for a long time
00:30:36is difficult. It's tough.
00:30:37My memory is not that great, which people will not believe.
00:30:40They'll say, you ask my wife, she'll be like,
00:30:41his memory is terrible, but my memory is great
00:30:45for things that are important for me to remember, right?
00:30:48Think about that again, for most people,
00:30:49I think that's the case.
00:30:51You can play to your strengths.
00:30:54If you're good at bison back and those chicken legs,
00:30:56then you're skipping legs day, right?
00:30:58I didn't mean that about you, legs are great.
00:30:59But I like how Chris is like, what did you say to me?
00:31:04- Train today. - Yeah.
00:31:05But I think that I will do very well
00:31:08at the things that I have to remember
00:31:09and things that I don't care about will kind of atrophy.
00:31:12And that's the part that's harder to really condition.
00:31:14Well, this was something that I get asked a lot
00:31:16at the live shows that I've been doing,
00:31:17which is how do I get better at remembering ideas?
00:31:21And when I first started trying to not be so much
00:31:24of an adult infant, I'm listening to Sam Harris
00:31:27and Jordan Peterson and Rogan.
00:31:29And these guys just seem to have like eidetic memory,
00:31:31like fucking Ben Shapiro seemed to have
00:31:32this like photographic memory.
00:31:34I remember reading things and then trying to explain them
00:31:37to a friend later on that day.
00:31:38And I couldn't even remember what book it was
00:31:39I'd been reading and it was so embarrassing.
00:31:41And I thought, God, you know, this sucked.
00:31:43These people out there, they either have a skillset
00:31:46that I don't have, or a capacity that I don't have,
00:31:48or they're using some sort of strategy
00:31:50that I'm not aware of.
00:31:51And maybe they're just better people than me.
00:31:53And then I realized that there was no reason
00:31:55for me to remember it.
00:31:56I was remembering ideas to tell my friend in the gym.
00:32:00And a lot of the time when people are saying,
00:32:02I wish I remembered more of what I read, I'm like, well, why?
00:32:05Why is it that you want to remember this thing
00:32:07that you're reading?
00:32:08Well, it would be cool to explain to other people.
00:32:11A lot of the time it's that I want to be able to say
00:32:14that I've read it.
00:32:15I want to be able to tell other people
00:32:16and show other people that I know this book
00:32:19that I've been going through or this particular documentary
00:32:21or whatever it might be.
00:32:22And as soon as I started doing the show,
00:32:24I had a reason to remember things.
00:32:26It was high valence for me.
00:32:28Like very, very highly important for me to hold on to stuff
00:32:31because I wanted to talk about this thing today
00:32:33with this guest about their book.
00:32:35So there was a purpose for me to do that, or I'm writing,
00:32:37you know, I do this newsletter every week.
00:32:40300,000 words later,
00:32:42well, there was a reason for me to learn stuff that week.
00:32:44So I know that I've got a thousand words
00:32:45to hand in this Monday.
00:32:47So there is a purpose for me learning things
00:32:50and remembering things so that I can then recall them.
00:32:52But without that, it's very difficult to have memory stick.
00:32:56It's very effortful.
00:32:57And the only reason that you do it
00:32:59is if there's an outcome on the other side of it.
00:33:00So if you're struggling to remember things
00:33:02that you're learning, I think look at
00:33:03what's the motivation for doing it.
00:33:05And if you don't really have one,
00:33:06I think giving yourself an output reason
00:33:09to remember this stuff is a great place to start.
00:33:12- I agree.
00:33:12Yeah, I think memory is a difficult one
00:33:16because again, most of us will think,
00:33:18oh, I'm so bad at remembering names, or I'm so bad at,
00:33:21you'll give yourself,
00:33:22you won't give yourself credit for certain things
00:33:24when you probably have very good memory
00:33:25for things that are important for your survival.
00:33:27For your day-to-day, I need to pick up the kids from school.
00:33:29Hopefully you are remembering that.
00:33:31That's very important.
00:33:32But the things that are missing,
00:33:34what is it that's lacking in that department?
00:33:37I find if you can't remember it, cheat.
00:33:39I write things down.
00:33:40Take copious notes.
00:33:43It's been one of my really big hacks in life
00:33:45is I would say about 10 years ago,
00:33:47what started happening is I would have repeat clients
00:33:49who booked me for another show.
00:33:51And I have a certain set list.
00:33:52And with what I do,
00:33:54you don't want to repeat tricks over and over
00:33:56because they lose a lot of their pizzazz and appeal.
00:33:59So I start panicking, what did I do for them?
00:34:02Oh my God.
00:34:03And then I realized that what I had done for them
00:34:05was asymmetrically special to them and not as special to me.
00:34:08So you meet someone
00:34:09and you guess their ATM pin code two years ago.
00:34:12Write it, oh, you remember.
00:34:14I don't remember it 'cause I've done 317 shows since you.
00:34:18But the feeling that I gave you was so strong
00:34:20and so adamant.
00:34:22And I've done things where I guess the name of kids
00:34:24before they're born from parents.
00:34:26And I will give them notes.
00:34:27And these we kept in scrapbooks.
00:34:28I met kids who were 10 years old.
00:34:29No way.
00:34:30Yes, that's a big reputation maker.
00:34:33I meet someone who's pregnant.
00:34:34I go, do you know if it's a boy or a girl?
00:34:36They go, yes.
00:34:37I go, do you care if it's a surprise?
00:34:38I won't say, but I know right now if it's a boy or girl.
00:34:40And do you know your top name?
00:34:42And I'll guess the name.
00:34:43I've actually guessed in a few instances,
00:34:45not the name that you,
00:34:46you didn't think this was gonna be the name
00:34:48and it ended up being the name,
00:34:49the one that your husband wanted, you didn't want.
00:34:51And so, again, why do I say this?
00:34:53I'm not trying to brag.
00:34:54If you meet someone five years later,
00:34:56they remember that moment, crystal clear.
00:34:59If you don't, it's hurtful.
00:35:02Do you see that?
00:35:03It's like they, ooh.
00:35:04It turns something really beautiful
00:35:05into something that's actually a little bit tarnished now.
00:35:07Exactly.
00:35:08And so after that happened on one or two occasions,
00:35:09now I can somewhat to a degree fake it
00:35:11because I can elevate my energy to theirs
00:35:13and they're not really guessing up.
00:35:14But I said, "I don't wanna have that happen again."
00:35:16So that never happens anymore.
00:35:18Do you know why?
00:35:18Because after that happens, if I'm at an event,
00:35:21I write their name, I write everything,
00:35:22I try to cement it in my mind.
00:35:23Just writing things enhances your memory.
00:35:25Right away, just sit down, take the effort.
00:35:28At the end of my show, which you might not have a show,
00:35:31but at the end of your day, debrief.
00:35:33What was really important today?
00:35:35I don't journal, I'm not gonna lie about that,
00:35:37but I will write down everything that occurs
00:35:39from a business perspective
00:35:41that I wanna recall and that I can use in the future.
00:35:44And just by doing that, if I go back to those notes
00:35:48and I can connect these two people,
00:35:50which now through CRMs, through very simplistic methods,
00:35:52I can just see this person met me here,
00:35:55they know this person, they might be at this next event, boom.
00:35:58I have all this information that I can use, not as a trick.
00:36:01I'm not revealing it in a magical way,
00:36:04but it almost feels that way to people.
00:36:05If I remember something I did for you three years ago,
00:36:08it feels like another experience of wonder and awe.
00:36:11Oh my God, how do you know that still?
00:36:14I don't technically, I re-went over my notes,
00:36:18but the fact that I took the time to take the notes
00:36:20and reviewed them is already a leg up
00:36:23and you can always find that.
00:36:25I do a lot of sales meetings and at sales meetings,
00:36:27I'm always intrigued by the fact
00:36:29that one person in the room is the number one performer.
00:36:32We're here, we're in a room with 3000 people
00:36:34that flew to the Bahamas because they all want a trip,
00:36:37one person did the best of everyone.
00:36:40What made that person the best that year?
00:36:43To me, that's a fascinating thing.
00:36:45That's like when I used to run marathons,
00:36:47my faster days and I would win marathons.
00:36:49Being at the start line, there's no bigger rush,
00:36:51there's no better drug, there's no better anything
00:36:53than looking around at everybody else and saying,
00:36:54I'm gonna beat every single one of you today.
00:36:56I can't even imagine being in the Olympics and winning a gold.
00:36:59Like that's, the rush, I can't, it's unfathomable
00:37:03'cause I did that at like a lower level weekend warrior
00:37:06and it was still the best.
00:37:07But in that room, that person must have believed
00:37:10they would be number one.
00:37:11And then that became self-fulfilling
00:37:13and they kept doing everything they could
00:37:15to make that happen.
00:37:16They didn't stumble into it.
00:37:17There's no way the number one person at your company
00:37:20is doing it by chance and never thought it would happen.
00:37:23It's impossible.
00:37:25- A quick aside, look, you know sleep matters,
00:37:27but let's be real, most nights,
00:37:29you're probably not getting the sort of sleep
00:37:31that's actually restorative.
00:37:32Eight Sleeps Pod 5 fixes that.
00:37:34It's a smart cover that you throw over the top
00:37:36of your mattress that actively cools or heats
00:37:38each side of the bed up to 20 degrees.
00:37:40They've even added a temperature regulating duvet
00:37:42and pillowcase so you and your partner can sleep
00:37:45at your preferred temperatures covered head to toe,
00:37:47like some temperature controlled mummy.
00:37:49Plus it's got upgraded sensors that run health checks
00:37:52when you're asleep, tracking things like abnormal heartbeats
00:37:54and breathing issues and sudden HRV changes.
00:37:57There's a built-in speaker for white noise.
00:37:59The autopilot feature learns your sleep patterns,
00:38:01makes real time adjustments to improve your sleep.
00:38:03It even detects when you're snoring
00:38:05and lifts your head a few inches to help you breathe better.
00:38:07That is why Eight Sleep is clinically proven
00:38:10to add up to an hour of quality sleep per night.
00:38:12And best of all, they have a 30 day sleep trial.
00:38:14So you can buy it and sleep on it for 29 nights.
00:38:17And if you don't like it,
00:38:17they will just give you your money back.
00:38:19Plus they ship internationally.
00:38:21Right now you can get up to $350 off the Pod 5
00:38:24by going to the link in the description below
00:38:25or heading to eightsleep.com/modernwisdom
00:38:28and using the code modernwisdom at checkout.
00:38:30That's eightsleep.com/modernwisdom
00:38:34and modernwisdom at checkout.
00:38:36What about deception?
00:38:37How can people better spot liars?
00:38:39- So people, I wish I had a clear cut way
00:38:43and I don't want to lie to people
00:38:45and tell them here's how you can know who's lying.
00:38:47I feel that anyone who does that
00:38:48is not telling you the truth.
00:38:50Because people are different, right?
00:38:52We're all different,
00:38:53but all of us have kind of guiding principles
00:38:56that if you observe people,
00:38:57you can tell when something's different.
00:39:00Benchmarks, the same way that you can watch the stock market
00:39:03and you see is it doing better or worse
00:39:04and that's how you could judge your financial advisor.
00:39:06How did you do against the S&P last year?
00:39:08Oh, we had a great year, how did the S&P do?
00:39:10You got 13%, that was 15%, you're not better.
00:39:13So people, to observe them when they're deceptive,
00:39:16most people add more details when they lie.
00:39:19They add more details to a story.
00:39:21Oh, I want to come, but my daughter's this and that.
00:39:24Bullshit, right?
00:39:25Like as soon as you start adding in more,
00:39:27you're feeling the need to prove beyond.
00:39:30When people tend to be cut and dry and say,
00:39:31I'm really sorry, I can't make it.
00:39:33Boom, that tends to be true.
00:39:35Not always, but more often than not.
00:39:38Now, there are cases where certain people
00:39:41are tight on words, they're not very careless.
00:39:44So somebody who might say, I can't make it,
00:39:46might be lying to you.
00:39:46Is that different than how they normally talk?
00:39:49Check their cadence.
00:39:51I believe that AI in the very near future
00:39:53will become incredibly good at detecting deception
00:39:56because if you can watch somebody when they lie,
00:39:59watch somebody when they tell the truth,
00:40:00watch both of those with several examples,
00:40:03I'm surprised they're not doing it already, to be honest,
00:40:05is that you can now view the difference
00:40:07purely by objective measures
00:40:09of how much time between their words,
00:40:13when they then speed up, right?
00:40:14All of those things that are very hard to control,
00:40:16your body does it the same way your heart rate goes up.
00:40:20If you had a bender last night, your body doesn't lie.
00:40:23You can't control the fact that if you go for a workout
00:40:26and you're in zone three the whole time,
00:40:27when normally you'd be zone two heart rate,
00:40:29oh man, my body's working harder than normal.
00:40:31So I think that catching people in lies
00:40:34is much easier than people expect.
00:40:36I do it in a very hyper-focused way for my show,
00:40:39which is, at the end of the day,
00:40:40one out of 52 cards in this case.
00:40:42Or pick a name, think of the first letter,
00:40:45you'll be like, that's impossible.
00:40:46What was 26 letters?
00:40:48Also, nobody's name starts with a Q, X, or Z almost ever,
00:40:51so we can throw out those three, right?
00:40:53I have a skill that looks impossible,
00:40:56but that I've been studying for 30 years,
00:40:58hence, there's kind of tactics I use.
00:41:01- Hmm, yeah, I think it's an interesting one
00:41:04to think about what AI is able to do to detect that,
00:41:06because you've already got it with the baseline metrics
00:41:09of a polygraph.
00:41:11- Right, which is not, those are not 100% at all.
00:41:15- You think that the verbal and visual cues
00:41:19of someone's speech pattern,
00:41:20cadence observing their face would be more accurate
00:41:23than a polygraph if you had a big enough data set?
00:41:25- I think very soon, yes, I think so.
00:41:27I think that in conjunction with a polygraph,
00:41:29but we're not gonna be able to polygraph people very often.
00:41:31- Just on the street? - It's a whole to do.
00:41:33Have you ever been polygraphed?
00:41:33- No, have you? - Yeah.
00:41:35- Were you able to beat it?
00:41:36- So I can't tell you if I was able to beat it,
00:41:37I was actually on a TV game show.
00:41:39(laughs)
00:41:40- Okay, which side, were you one of the contestants?
00:41:43- Contestants. - Okay.
00:41:44- Yeah, and so I don't know if I could tell you,
00:41:46because the only way to know if you beat it
00:41:48is you'd have to have access to the results,
00:41:49and then we'd have to sit there and do it together,
00:41:51which that's actually a pretty good idea for a show,
00:41:54but I'm certain that you can. - Yes, to see who
00:41:55the best deceiver is. - Sure.
00:41:57- That would be sick. - Yeah, politicians.
00:41:59- What about, you mentioned sales, you mentioned sales there.
00:42:03What are some of the ways that you teach people
00:42:06to become better salespeople, more confident
00:42:08as they step into a room where they're nervous,
00:42:10more commanding and likable?
00:42:12- Being vulnerable is a huge one.
00:42:14So if you feel nervous, just saying that,
00:42:17it's just allowing people into your head
00:42:19and saying, hey, I've never done this before.
00:42:22I'm actually quite nervous right now,
00:42:23but you seem like a great person.
00:42:24I just wanna tell you more about what I'm,
00:42:26like just anything that opens you up
00:42:28that allows you to be human, people hate fakeness.
00:42:31I don't, if you have somebody who's a great salesperson,
00:42:34but they feel fake to you, hey, I gotta tell you,
00:42:36you just see, that's not you.
00:42:38I can instantly detect deception
00:42:40that that's not really you right now,
00:42:43and you can detect it in a performer,
00:42:44you can detect it in a politician,
00:42:46you can detect it in people very clearly.
00:42:48There's a spider sense we have that we can't explain,
00:42:51but right now, if somebody was in the room
00:42:52that I didn't know watching me behind my back, right,
00:42:55that wasn't here, I could feel it.
00:42:57Do you know what I mean?
00:42:58I don't know if it's sonar, I don't know where it comes from,
00:43:00but there's some way that you can sense a presence near you,
00:43:04and I'm not talking about ghosts,
00:43:05I'm just being, you can feel someone next to you,
00:43:07situational awareness.
00:43:09I think there's something similar to that
00:43:11where you can detect authenticity.
00:43:13And for me, if you watch my show and you meet me in real life,
00:43:16I'm the same person, I'm just slightly exaggerated.
00:43:19A lot of other people that do what I do
00:43:21aren't the same person when you meet them.
00:43:23Offstage, they're not the same.
00:43:24Comedians, especially, are not the same people.
00:43:26Actors and actresses.
00:43:27Day and night. - By design.
00:43:28- Well, by design, but also it's shocking
00:43:30when you meet some people and you're like,
00:43:31"Oh, you're so different than what I expected."
00:43:33It's kind of a cool thing,
00:43:34you've probably met a lot of famous people,
00:43:35but you're just not at all the person I thought you would be.
00:43:37So right away, I think vulnerability is a huge one,
00:43:41being able to open up to somebody at a moment's notice
00:43:43and being real with them.
00:43:45Another one is know what resistance is going to occur.
00:43:49I call it channel your inner mentalist.
00:43:50Try to think like they think.
00:43:52Stop thinking like you.
00:43:53Most of us don't think in terms of benefits-oriented language.
00:43:57I somehow learned this very young,
00:43:59which is if I go up to a restaurant,
00:44:01'cause my hustle, when I was 14 years old,
00:44:03I started doing magic tricks
00:44:04and I needed to buy more magic tricks,
00:44:06was I went to restaurants and I would get a job
00:44:08being a strolling magician at the restaurant.
00:44:11And I really-- - At 14.
00:44:12- At 14, I started when I was 13.
00:44:14But at 14, I needed to make money.
00:44:15My folks had gotten divorced, kind of really messy,
00:44:18and we had no money.
00:44:19So it's not like I had no disposable income
00:44:21to be like, give me an allowance to buy this.
00:44:23So for me to keep doing more tricks, which I loved,
00:44:26I needed to go work.
00:44:27My mom was like, go work.
00:44:29And so there was another restaurant magician
00:44:31somewhere else in the city.
00:44:32So I knew that was something you could do
00:44:34and get tips and get parties and print business cards.
00:44:37But I realized if I go in the restaurant
00:44:38and just show them tricks, what makes me special,
00:44:40they don't care about that.
00:44:41They really, they might be cool, but so what?
00:44:44What they care about is we have a line of people
00:44:46waiting to get seats.
00:44:47They're a little annoyed, they're on edge.
00:44:49Go entertain them while they're waiting.
00:44:51Someone just had to send back a steak, it was overcooked.
00:44:54You know what, go sweeten the deal.
00:44:56Go make them happy because the next 10, 15 minutes
00:44:58while everyone else is eating,
00:44:59they're kind of low level pissed off.
00:45:01Now we have this little song and dance boy head on over.
00:45:04And so I realized that the language I could use for them
00:45:07wasn't, they're gonna be amazed.
00:45:09They don't care about amazed.
00:45:10Every single person that leaves this restaurant today
00:45:13is going to walk up to you and say,
00:45:14what a great time they had
00:45:15and how they're gonna come back again with friends.
00:45:18Boom, that's what they wanna hear.
00:45:20The manager wants to hear about sales,
00:45:21not about how good my tricks are.
00:45:23So the more you can position yourself
00:45:26as a value add to the people around you
00:45:29and what's important to them, right?
00:45:31That's what's gonna open doors.
00:45:33That's what opened doors for me.
00:45:34- I had Will Guadara on.
00:45:36- Oh yeah, great, I saw his book, so funny.
00:45:38- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - It's everywhere.
00:45:39- Yeah, yeah, he's crushed it.
00:45:40So 11 Park Ave. - Of course.
00:45:42- Would be the number one restaurant in the world for a while.
00:45:45- 11 Madison. - 11, is it 11 Madison?
00:45:47- Yeah, I think so. - Okay.
00:45:49Anyway, he said, he was telling me this,
00:45:52some of the crazy stuff that he'd done.
00:45:54One of them was a couple had supposedly got married that day
00:45:59and the wedding party was such a catastrophe
00:46:03that they weren't able to have the reception.
00:46:05They'd done the marriage thing,
00:46:07but two families bickering, backbiting,
00:46:10power games, all the rest of it.
00:46:12And they had gone for dinner at this place.
00:46:14They'd booked the dinner for that evening.
00:46:15So one of the staff made it her job to work out,
00:46:19they didn't have a first dance,
00:46:21made it her job to work out
00:46:22what the first dance song would be.
00:46:25And they slowed the service for this couple.
00:46:27Did a little bit, so they were the only,
00:46:29by the end of the evening,
00:46:30they were the only people left in the entire restaurant.
00:46:31And I think there's two flaws to it.
00:46:33And once they'd finished up, they said,
00:46:36oh, you just head upstairs, we've got to thank you for you.
00:46:39They go into the elevator and they go up.
00:46:41And as they walk out, they played the first song
00:46:45that they would have had at their wedding.
00:46:47And all of the staff had left.
00:46:49Slowly, all of the different serving staff had left.
00:46:50They thought, you know, we're kind of left here.
00:46:52We were the last people here.
00:46:53They were going upstairs.
00:46:55So they were welcomed for their first dance with the song.
00:46:58And they've never, what an unbelievable way to reverse,
00:47:02like an even cooler story maybe
00:47:04than having the reception that you would have had.
00:47:07And yeah, that, it is very much, what's the emotionality?
00:47:11How much can you sort of penetrate somebody with that?
00:47:14Like not just, he was able to guess the cards,
00:47:16but the cards were also something special to me.
00:47:20It makes it about this person.
00:47:21- That's the challenge in life, right?
00:47:24Is to connect with other people
00:47:26because I realized other people are going to be the ones
00:47:28who open your door.
00:47:29Your network and who you are is a huge factor
00:47:33of your success and happiness, right?
00:47:35As you get older, you watch so much more,
00:47:37I heard your Tristan Harris, we were talking about earlier,
00:47:39where he talks about how much lonelier people are now
00:47:41because you don't engage people in real life anymore.
00:47:44It's all screens and texts.
00:47:45And it's so true, it's prevalent.
00:47:46For me, it's probably the same as for you.
00:47:48I don't know how it is for you, but I just,
00:47:50between family, between work, there's just not as much time.
00:47:53And especially if you're ambitious and driven,
00:47:55I have definitely traded career over friendships
00:47:58at various stages where I can't be at this big event.
00:48:01I can't be at this boys' trip.
00:48:02It's impossible, I travel too much for work.
00:48:05So when you have that drive
00:48:07and not everyone has that same thing,
00:48:08but at a certain point,
00:48:10I think that connecting with people around you
00:48:12and either forming very strong relationships
00:48:15or bonds that go past,
00:48:17like give and take relationships are a huge one for me
00:48:19where I feel that as I get older,
00:48:22there are people around me that are just taking.
00:48:24I don't like that relationship.
00:48:25I try to find ones where you're able to keep giving,
00:48:27giving, giving until the point where you have to take
00:48:29and somebody wants to give at that.
00:48:30Does that make sense?
00:48:32I'm saying in a poor way,
00:48:34but the people that have stuck around the longest
00:48:35for me are ones where it's a back and forth.
00:48:38It's a constant back and forth.
00:48:39And it's not always just take, take, take, take, take.
00:48:43- Yeah.
00:48:44What about confidence?
00:48:45A lot of the time people step into a room, they're nervous.
00:48:47They are about to do some big presentation or some pitch.
00:48:50I understand that likability can come from vulnerability.
00:48:53I think that's a cool way to connect.
00:48:55And also to kind of stop the additional level of pressure
00:48:58and shame that you feel about having this hidden thing.
00:49:02You have this secret that you're hiding from someone,
00:49:04which is that I do feel nervous or whatever,
00:49:07but how about getting over the nervousness,
00:49:09feeling more confident, feeling more compelling
00:49:12and prepared when you step in.
00:49:14- Confidence is a funny one
00:49:15because once you become confident, you ask yourself,
00:49:17why wasn't I confident five, 10, 20 years ago, right?
00:49:19Experience leads to it.
00:49:21How do you fast track it?
00:49:23So I had a kind of a paradigm shift when I was young,
00:49:26when I was about 14,
00:49:27which is I would go up to restaurants,
00:49:29I would go to the restaurants,
00:49:30I would be going up to somebody
00:49:31at a point where they don't want me at all
00:49:33to walk up to them.
00:49:34It's kind of like a telemarketer call.
00:49:36I'm 14 years old, I walk up to your table.
00:49:38- Fuck off kid.
00:49:39- Exactly, exactly.
00:49:41So right away, I started to understand
00:49:43that when I walk up to you,
00:49:44if they don't like me or they don't like my trick
00:49:47or anything about the approach went wrong,
00:49:49it's just negative.
00:49:50Some people wouldn't be that kind, they'd be apathetic.
00:49:52Even worse than telling you get away
00:49:54is to just sit there and not pay attention
00:49:55and look at you awkwardly,
00:49:56which is just brutal, just brutal.
00:49:59And so here's what happened.
00:50:00That same thing you talk about confidence,
00:50:02I would leave the table furious.
00:50:04I would feel terrible.
00:50:05If that happened at two or three tables in a row,
00:50:07it would compound.
00:50:08And by the time I got to the fourth table,
00:50:10even if they were nice to me,
00:50:11I kind of hated them.
00:50:12- It's like a comedian chasing the audience.
00:50:14- But I had low level rage and I realized,
00:50:17but truly I can't allow you that power over me.
00:50:22I had this real, and here's why it was selfish
00:50:25because I go, if I can't keep doing this,
00:50:27I'm not gonna be able to buy more tricks.
00:50:28It was very A to B, very linear.
00:50:30And I go, if I can't buy more tricks,
00:50:31how am I gonna get better at this thing?
00:50:32So I said, I have to find a way around this.
00:50:35It was a do or die in my mind of,
00:50:37I can't allow the audience or in anybody else's case,
00:50:40the people around me to dictate my self-worth
00:50:43and my confidence.
00:50:44And what I did was almost a weird schizophrenic,
00:50:47multiple personality thing.
00:50:49I decided that I was almost two people.
00:50:52And in my brain, I created this like split where I said,
00:50:54they don't actually know me.
00:50:56The people that were just not nice to me,
00:50:57they don't know me, O's Pearlman.
00:51:00They met O's the magician.
00:51:01And I thought the same way that a movie star has an agent,
00:51:04the agent handles the negotiations for contracts, right?
00:51:07You don't go to Brad Pitt and say,
00:51:09you can't have this trailer.
00:51:10I'm not paying you 18 million, you get 60 million.
00:51:11He has somebody who does that for him,
00:51:13who deals with the dirty work.
00:51:15Now, most of us in life don't have agents.
00:51:18So I decided that I now have an agent in my mind.
00:51:22And when I walk up to you, if you don't like me,
00:51:24and you weren't asking me, I don't care at all.
00:51:26The agent handled that, that wasn't me.
00:51:28I didn't take it personal anymore.
00:51:30And I know that sounds easier to say than to do,
00:51:34but I truly somehow disconnected the pain
00:51:38associated with rejection,
00:51:39which is really what it is for most people,
00:51:41the pain and fear of rejection,
00:51:43and decided to put that on someone else
00:51:45who wasn't my core psyche.
00:51:47The best way I can liken it as a visual metaphor
00:51:49is if you have a bowl of water.
00:51:52And if I take salt and I pour salt in the water,
00:51:54that water, once you stir it, is salt water.
00:51:57There's nothing you can do about it.
00:51:58But if you could somehow find a way
00:51:59to insert a piece of plexiglass in the middle,
00:52:01it's invisible, and I poured salt into only one side,
00:52:04this other side stays fine.
00:52:06So I did this as a survival tactic at a young age,
00:52:10because otherwise I don't think I could have made it through
00:52:12continuing to do this job,
00:52:13because the rejection is so pronounced
00:52:16when somebody just dislikes you.
00:52:18It's the same as romantic rejection.
00:52:20I had trouble with that as a teenager.
00:52:22That, I wish I had that agent in my mind.
00:52:24I'm like, no, it wasn't the trick.
00:52:25She didn't like me.
00:52:26- You weren't able to apply the agent model
00:52:28to the romantic--
00:52:29- No, because I didn't have anything.
00:52:30There was no buffer.
00:52:31I'm like, she just doesn't like me.
00:52:33Damn it, I don't know what to do.
00:52:34I can't get any taller.
00:52:35I have shoes that are thick,
00:52:37but I don't know what else to do.
00:52:38But if you can find a way to do that,
00:52:40so when you go into that presentation, be prepared.
00:52:43There's no such thing as getting in there,
00:52:44being unprepared and saying, oh, that's my agent.
00:52:46That's you who screwed up.
00:52:48So be prepared, do your homework, practice.
00:52:50But when you leave,
00:52:52understand that there are two different parts
00:52:54and that you shouldn't assess your self-worth
00:52:57based on if they rejected this little part of you.
00:53:00- A quick aside.
00:53:00Most people think that they're dehydrated
00:53:03because they don't drink enough water.
00:53:04It turns out water alone isn't just the problem.
00:53:07It's also what's missing from it,
00:53:08which is why for the last five years,
00:53:10I've started every single morning
00:53:12with a cold glass of Element in water.
00:53:14Element is an electrolyte drink
00:53:16with a science-backed ratio of sodium,
00:53:18potassium, and magnesium.
00:53:19No sugar, no coloring, no artificial ingredients,
00:53:22just the stuff that your body actually needs to function.
00:53:25This plays a critical role
00:53:26in reducing your muscle cramps and your fatigue.
00:53:29It optimizes your brain health.
00:53:30It regulates your appetite and it helps curb cravings.
00:53:33I keep talking about it
00:53:34because I genuinely feel the difference
00:53:36when I use it versus when I don't.
00:53:37And best of all, there's a no questions asked refund policy
00:53:40with an unlimited duration.
00:53:41So if you're on the fence,
00:53:42you can buy it and try it for as long as you like.
00:53:44And if you don't like it for any reason,
00:53:45they just give you your money back.
00:53:46You don't even need to return the box.
00:53:48That's how confident they are that you'll love it.
00:53:49And they offer free shipping in the U.S.
00:53:51Right now, you can get a free sample pack
00:53:53of Element's most popular flavors with your first purchase
00:53:55by going to the link in the description below
00:53:57or heading to drinklmnt.com/modernwisdom.
00:54:01That's drinklmnt.com/modernwisdom.
00:54:06If you know these techniques so well,
00:54:08how good are you at stopping yourself from being manipulated?
00:54:12- Not great.
00:54:14It's funny because I think that's funny
00:54:19because it's almost like the chef who goes home.
00:54:22And it's like, you know, exactly, it's ramen.
00:54:26So figure that one out.
00:54:27Three Michelin stars, best restaurant in the world,
00:54:29hitting up Shake Shack afterwards.
00:54:31But I think that I'm very astute at being manipulated
00:54:35in certain parts of my life
00:54:36versus like my kids can manipulate me like crazy.
00:54:39That Love Jean, mom said you could do that.
00:54:42Like did she though, did she, like full manipulation.
00:54:45- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:54:46- Like my son, this is so funny.
00:54:47He's in like a afterschool math program
00:54:51where I know for a fact,
00:54:52he's not allowed to use a calculator,
00:54:53but he was so damn convincing.
00:54:55He's gonna love when he hears,
00:54:56"My nine year old's gonna love this."
00:54:58And he's like, "No, we're allowed
00:54:59"because we're going into fifth grade."
00:55:01And he goes, "For certain word problems,
00:55:03"she told us that we should use a calculator
00:55:04"because it enhances our skills."
00:55:06And I go, "There's just no way that's true."
00:55:08He's like, "Email her."
00:55:09And so he was trying to call my bluff.
00:55:11- He knew that you weren't gonna email.
00:55:12- I freaking emailed her, okay?
00:55:14And here's what happened.
00:55:15She writes me back the most dismissive email
00:55:18of like all of our questions
00:55:19are designed for no calculator.
00:55:20So no, there's no, as if I'm an idiot.
00:55:23Meanwhile, I now get in trouble for my wife
00:55:25for how did you allow him to influence you?
00:55:26- You've been outwitted by a nine year old.
00:55:27- You even emailed and now he looked at me
00:55:30because he couldn't believe
00:55:31that he had gotten me to email the teacher.
00:55:32So to answer-- - So he wins either way.
00:55:34He gets to use the calculator
00:55:35or manage to get dad in trouble
00:55:37and look like an idiot. - He triple wins
00:55:38because if he hears this podcast,
00:55:39he's gonna be in heaven when he hears this.
00:55:41So yes, it was full manipulation.
00:55:43I can't lie to you and pretend
00:55:44that I am not manipulated either.
00:55:46But again, I have a hyper-specific focus
00:55:49on what I use manipulation for.
00:55:51I am an honest con man, if that makes sense.
00:55:55Our contract is not one of I'm gonna talk to your dead aunt
00:55:58and tell you things and you're gonna pay me money.
00:56:01I'm providing entertainment and memorable moments
00:56:04in the guise of deception.
00:56:05I tell you from the outset that this is not real.
00:56:08- I had a John Lyle on the podcast
00:56:12and he was looking at MK Ultra.
00:56:14He's great, great historian researcher
00:56:18here at University of Texas.
00:56:19And he is doing original research,
00:56:21getting into the archives, seeing all of the notes
00:56:25of the people that were getting the electroshock therapy,
00:56:28trying to do the complete reset on people
00:56:31to make them pliable Manchurian candidate type things.
00:56:35- On LSD too.
00:56:36- Yeah, well, they were applying a lot of LSD
00:56:37in an attempt to see if that made people more pliable,
00:56:39more suggestible, more able to.
00:56:41And Charles Manson wasn't a part of MK Ultra.
00:56:45He wasn't a part of MK Ultra.
00:56:47However, the fascinating thing is,
00:56:49the story is people believe Charles Manson
00:56:52was studied in MK Ultra because there was some additional
00:56:57skill he had that made him good at leading a cult.
00:57:01And maybe he'd learned that from the CIA's investigations
00:57:04or there'd been some sort of sharing of information in that.
00:57:07That wasn't the case.
00:57:08He wasn't a part of it.
00:57:09However, Charles Manson was unbelievably good
00:57:12at manipulating people and getting them to become suggestible.
00:57:14So he didn't learn anything from the CIA,
00:57:17but John's line was the CIA could have learned a lot from him.
00:57:20If they'd gone to cult leaders, Danny Trejo,
00:57:24do you know Danny Trejo, a Hollywood actor?
00:57:25- Yeah, of course, of course, yeah, of course.
00:57:27- He was in prison with Charlie, Little Charlie,
00:57:30he called him, Charles Manson.
00:57:32And Little Charlie was getting beaten up
00:57:33due to one of the smaller dudes around the block,
00:57:36getting beaten up by some of the other prisoners.
00:57:38He had a rope for a belt and maybe he didn't even have a belt
00:57:40and he gave him a rope, Danny gave him a rope.
00:57:42Danny and his friends had heard that Charles Little Charlie
00:57:46was able to get you loaded on heroin just through your mind.
00:57:51And they started letting him sleep in their cell
00:57:55'cause they would protect him in return
00:57:57for him giving them mental heroin.
00:58:01And he did it to three of the guys.
00:58:04Only two of them had ever had heroin before.
00:58:06And apparently if you do heroin, you throw up,
00:58:08you're likely to throw up when you take it.
00:58:10The two guys that had done it threw up,
00:58:13the dude that hadn't didn't because he didn't know
00:58:15what his response to heroin should be.
00:58:19But they were basically painting the picture of Charles Manson
00:58:22this unbelievable reader, manipulator of people
00:58:25that supposedly might've learned these skills from the CIA,
00:58:29which he didn't.
00:58:30But in fact, if the CIA had really wanted to learn
00:58:32how to control and manipulate people,
00:58:34they could have gone to him and said,
00:58:35"Hey, you've got some really strong skills here."
00:58:38All of the cult leader things that we've seen before,
00:58:39the fact that people are able to bow down,
00:58:41give over their life, their wife, their bank account,
00:58:45their entire sort of spiritual essence
00:58:48to whoever this person is,
00:58:50because they've managed to sort of play this conducting game.
00:58:54- They have.
00:58:55There's a real, I'm fascinated by cult leaders
00:58:58and just everything about how they're able to win trust.
00:59:01And it's these incremental changes.
00:59:03I liken it to kind of like a cruise ship or a large tanker
00:59:06that when it just turns one degree, it starts changing.
00:59:09One degree, little changes over time
00:59:12can start pushing you in that direction of,
00:59:14especially when you earn trust.
00:59:16So with my craft, it's kind of, again,
00:59:18I kind of guide you in a certain way, not for cult leader.
00:59:21I'm not trying to take anything from you,
00:59:23but I can't do it.
00:59:24When you asked me earlier,
00:59:25can you do this with somebody who doesn't want to?
00:59:26No, it can't be done against your will.
00:59:29You asked me, what's the core skill?
00:59:31Building trust, building rapport,
00:59:33and connecting with somebody.
00:59:34- Why can't you do it against someone's will?
00:59:36Ethically, or they--
00:59:38- Just think about it.
00:59:39If you decide you don't want to take part,
00:59:41then you'll say, no, I'm not doing that.
00:59:42I'm not doing that.
00:59:42It's like, it's not an against your will type of thing.
00:59:45- Right, you need to have them--
00:59:46- I'm not gonna touch those cards.
00:59:48You're just gonna stop me dead in my tracks.
00:59:49It's not something you can do against your will.
00:59:51- Do you know if the same is true with hypnotism?
00:59:53- Hypnotism is interesting
00:59:54because people have a level of suggestibility
00:59:57and a good hypnotist will check that as they go.
01:00:00So a stage hypnotist does compliance testing
01:00:03out in the audience.
01:00:04They'll do something for everyone,
01:00:05put your hands together, close them together,
01:00:07close your eyes, imagine they're glued together,
01:00:08and they'll see who is the most suggestible.
01:00:11And based on that, they'll bring you up.
01:00:13- Are you, you must be familiar
01:00:15with a bunch of tangential skillsets.
01:00:18- Yeah.
01:00:18- Hypnotism, magicians, who else are behind,
01:00:21who else is sort of, if there was a dressing room
01:00:22of people doing stuff similar to yours,
01:00:24magicians, hypnotists, who else is in there?
01:00:26- I would say stand-up comedians.
01:00:28Because stand-up comedians, in essence,
01:00:30are hypnotizing an audience in a certain way.
01:00:32And the best ones are guiding you kind of up and down,
01:00:34and there's a rhythm to it.
01:00:36And my show has a rhythm.
01:00:38So if you were to watch a full show,
01:00:39I have, I keep playing devil's advocate as I go.
01:00:43If you were watching my full performance,
01:00:44which I'm starting a tour.
01:00:46So should we plug this now?
01:00:47- Absolutely, yeah.
01:00:48- So I'm, I don't know when this comes out,
01:00:49but May 2nd, I'm at the Wynn in Las Vegas.
01:00:52June 5th, I'm at the Borgata in Atlantic City.
01:00:55And coming this summer, I'm shooting a Netflix special,
01:00:58which is gonna be, I don't know the exact date yet,
01:00:59I don't wanna, but it's gonna be in July in New York City.
01:01:01- Where should people go to find out?
01:01:03- Everything is on my social.
01:01:04You can just click the link, but I'm @OzTheMentalist.
01:01:07So it's @Ozy, looks like Oz, the mentalist on everything.
01:01:11Twitter, TikTok, Instagram.
01:01:13Go there, click the link, get tickets.
01:01:15Come see this for yourself.
01:01:16- Unreal.
01:01:17I had a Dr. David Spiegel on the show,
01:01:19and he is Stanford's head of the hypnotism,
01:01:24evidence-based sort of hypnotism lab.
01:01:27And he was saying that you can have a single
01:01:30one-time intervention for lifetime smoking addiction
01:01:34that's got a 25% chance of single intervention,
01:01:37full cessation for the rest of your life.
01:01:39And I think when you do two or three or four sessions,
01:01:41that goes up to 50 to 60%.
01:01:45- But again, I would say that that, and ask him,
01:01:47is that against somebody's will?
01:01:49So if somebody doesn't want to quit smoking,
01:01:51then that won't work, is my opinion.
01:01:52But if somebody comes in and they now connect
01:01:55the core memory of something disgusting,
01:01:57something that repulses you, again,
01:01:59there's different ways that they do it,
01:02:00but I've seen smoking cessation sessions.
01:02:02And now if you connect the two together,
01:02:04inextricably in your mind, where this thought of doing this
01:02:08is no longer my feeling of I want to have coffee
01:02:10and a cigarette in the morning,
01:02:12that feeling of it now feels disgusting.
01:02:14It feels like if you were to take a bunch of cockroaches
01:02:16and crunch them in your mouth,
01:02:18if you could create those two together in your mind
01:02:20on a subconscious level,
01:02:21then you won't be able to do it anymore.
01:02:22It will disgust you.
01:02:23- Isn't it funny that the human brain
01:02:25has got these sort of weird key holes?
01:02:28- Yeah, to trickle.
01:02:28- That you're able to slot into,
01:02:30that hypnotism is able to slot into,
01:02:32that comedy is able to slot into.
01:02:34And with comedy, you can kind of see why,
01:02:36because normal day-to-day human interaction,
01:02:39people say things and you both share
01:02:42in a little bit of surprise and delight.
01:02:44Isn't that cool?
01:02:45When you get toward hypnotism, you go,
01:02:47what is the mechanism that's going on
01:02:49inside of the human brain?
01:02:50Why is it there?
01:02:51Is it purpose-built?
01:02:53- Right.
01:02:53- Or is this a spandrel in the same way
01:02:57that a light bulb gives off light,
01:02:58but it also gives off heat?
01:02:59It's not supposed to give off the heat.
01:03:01The heat is just a byproduct of the light.
01:03:02A human brain's meant to have this.
01:03:04Is it built in for us to be suggestible
01:03:06or is it a byproduct of us having a few other attributes
01:03:09that need to be important?
01:03:10And by playing with it for a few thousand years,
01:03:13humans have found out,
01:03:14ah, actually I can tell something about your cards.
01:03:17I can tell something about your life.
01:03:20I can suggest you to behave in this sort of a way,
01:03:22or I can encourage you to stop or start doing something.
01:03:25- Well, why do we dream?
01:03:27That's a, have you ever lucid dreamed?
01:03:29- A little, a little, not much.
01:03:31- So when I was in high school, and this is no connection,
01:03:33I wasn't doing mentalism, I was doing magic,
01:03:35but I really was very into like Carlos Castaneda.
01:03:38I was introduced to those books
01:03:39and just some with lucid dreaming and remote viewing
01:03:42and all of this kind of paranormal things,
01:03:45which I didn't know if I believed or not,
01:03:47but lucid dreaming is real.
01:03:48And for about six months,
01:03:50I wrote a paper on it my senior year in a psychology class,
01:03:52and I was doing it.
01:03:53So lucid dreaming, do you know the techniques to do it?
01:03:56These might be rudimentary
01:03:57'cause they go back about 25 years.
01:04:00You do reality testing.
01:04:01So what I used to do is I would wear a watch
01:04:03and I became almost OCD level.
01:04:05I would check my watch every five minutes.
01:04:07It's kind of like the Leonardo DiCaprio
01:04:09Inception where he spins it.
01:04:10I would check my watch every five minutes,
01:04:13and you have to start doing this religiously
01:04:15so it becomes a tick.
01:04:16Not a big deal.
01:04:17I check my watch, I'd look at it, I'd look away,
01:04:18I'd look back and make sure it was the same time.
01:04:20I did this at school every day.
01:04:22I did this throughout the day every day.
01:04:24Then as you're going to bed,
01:04:27I didn't invent any of this.
01:04:28This is all from a book.
01:04:29There's, I hope I'm saying this word correctly,
01:04:31but it's the hypnagogic stage.
01:04:33Do you know how to say that word?
01:04:35So as you're falling asleep,
01:04:36the best way to do it is hold your arm at your side up.
01:04:39And you know that moment when you jolt?
01:04:41That's when your brain goes into that kind of,
01:04:44that's the most suggestible part of your whole night.
01:04:46If you can hold your arm up right before you go to sleep,
01:04:47everyone try it, and right when you feel that,
01:04:49that means you went into it.
01:04:50Now, start self-suggesting.
01:04:53In my mind, I would say, I will remember my dream.
01:04:55I will remember my dream.
01:04:56And you will nod off to bed within the next,
01:04:58for most people, 30 to 45 seconds once you feel that jolt.
01:05:02If you say that as the last thing before you go to bed,
01:05:05what started happening is you will start to remember
01:05:08anywhere from three, four, up to eight dreams a night.
01:05:10This was my project.
01:05:12And you'd wake up for a minute in between the dreams.
01:05:14If you want, you can write them down,
01:05:15but you'd start having very vivid dreams.
01:05:18And within about a week of doing this,
01:05:20the checking my watch in my dream,
01:05:22I would now check my watch.
01:05:24It's fully in our decaprio.
01:05:25I'd look away.
01:05:26I'd look back.
01:05:27The watch is always a different time if you're in a dream.
01:05:30It never has consistency.
01:05:32So I'd look at it.
01:05:33Now your brain goes into overdrive trying to explain,
01:05:35well, this is the reason why.
01:05:36The same reason that an alarm in your house
01:05:40turns into a car honking in a dream.
01:05:41Do you know what I mean before you wake up?
01:05:43So now your mind is racing against you
01:05:45to try to pull yourself out.
01:05:46So as you get better at it, you realize,
01:05:48I'm dreaming right now.
01:05:49This isn't real.
01:05:50I will not wake up.
01:05:52And now you can take control of your dream.
01:05:54And it's actually the coolest thing in the world.
01:05:56If you can put in the work to do it.
01:05:58I have had moments where I've been lucid since
01:06:00without doing just spontaneous,
01:06:02but I used to have lucid dreams almost every night.
01:06:05And it was the coolest thing.
01:06:05- It's like playing a video game while you're asleep.
01:06:07- It is truly, it's better-
01:06:08- The original virtual reality.
01:06:10- It's better than virtual reality 'cause it's real.
01:06:12Yeah, it's incredible.
01:06:14It's worth, it's not that hard to do.
01:06:15It's just most people don't put in the work.
01:06:17I haven't put in the work.
01:06:18I don't sleep that much anymore.
01:06:19I've got five kids, but it was super cool at the time.
01:06:22And I think that I realized at that point,
01:06:24there's much more to the mind.
01:06:25And there are these things,
01:06:26which I don't think are explainable.
01:06:28They're not mystical, but why is that?
01:06:31Why is that a skill that I could learn within a week
01:06:33and be able to just take control of my dreams?
01:06:35- It's like a backdoor in a computer program.
01:06:37It wasn't designed to necessarily be there,
01:06:39but for some reason it is.
01:06:40And because we've tested and played around with it so much,
01:06:42people have found these ways to do it.
01:06:44How long did it take you to learn to lucid dream?
01:06:46- I think within less than a week,
01:06:48I was able to start doing it somewhat consistently.
01:06:50And then it was because, again,
01:06:52if you were to just do that little changes,
01:06:55like the atomic habits, you have to do like small,
01:06:57this was one that wasn't that hard.
01:06:58Every five minutes, check my watch.
01:07:00I would always check my watch anyway,
01:07:01but this was just more obsessive,
01:07:03but I would only look at it once.
01:07:04Now it was the double tap.
01:07:05Look at it, take a moment, then look back.
01:07:08If you just did that, it started to become something.
01:07:10And then when you're in the dream,
01:07:13it was so crazy because the dreams are just as real.
01:07:16- When was the last dream you remember?
01:07:18'Cause I don't remember my dreams that frequently anymore.
01:07:22- I had one last night that I kind of remember.
01:07:23- How much do you sleep per night on average?
01:07:26- Seven hours.
01:07:26- Oh, wow, that's yeah, much better than me.
01:07:28- No kids.
01:07:29- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:07:31I'm trying to bank as much sleep as possible in anticipation.
01:07:34- No, you might with kids too.
01:07:36Everyone's different, but I just--
01:07:37- I don't know any parent that has sleep.
01:07:39I don't know any parent of kids that has that much good sleep.
01:07:41- I mean, no one's awake, but I just go to bed later.
01:07:45I just don't want to go to sleep.
01:07:46- Okay.
01:07:47- 'Cause once they go to bed,
01:07:48that's your only time that you get to like--
01:07:49- Fuck, I'm liberated.
01:07:51Shit, this nine-year-old that's gaslighting me
01:07:53and letting him use his calculator
01:07:55has finally gotten this tiny little tyrant.
01:07:56- Holy, and the judgment from the tutor who writes me back,
01:07:59and you could just tell that the parentheses
01:08:01was like you freaking moron.
01:08:03Like she couldn't say that,
01:08:04but she wanted to put that in the parentheses.
01:08:07Oh, it's so, yeah, that's amazing.
01:08:08Yes, can I be easily manipulated?
01:08:10I wanted to lie, but the truth is yes, I can and my kids can.
01:08:13- A quick aside.
01:08:14There is a stat that genuinely surprised me
01:08:15when I first heard it.
01:08:1695% of people don't get enough fiber.
01:08:20Not because they're being careless,
01:08:21but because hitting your daily fiber target
01:08:23through food alone is actually quite hard.
01:08:25But that's why Momentus built Fiber Plus.
01:08:28See, fiber isn't just a digestion thing.
01:08:31It's the foundation of your gut health,
01:08:33which drives how well you absorb nutrients,
01:08:36how stable your energy is, and how quickly you recover.
01:08:38If your gut isn't dialed in,
01:08:39everything else that you're doing
01:08:40is working at a fraction of its potential.
01:08:42Fiber Plus is a three-in-one formula built
01:08:45to address digestion, gut barrier strength,
01:08:47and blood sugar stability all at once.
01:08:49And this cinnamon flavor is unreal.
01:08:52You might think fiber, wow, I bet that tastes great.
01:08:56Well, yeah, actually it does, doubters.
01:08:59I really enjoyed this.
01:09:00Best of all, Momentus offers a 30-day money-back guarantee.
01:09:02So if you're not sure, you can buy Fiber Plus.
01:09:04Try it for 29 days.
01:09:05If you don't love it, they'll just give you your money back.
01:09:08And they ship internationally.
01:09:09Right now, you can get up to 35% off your first subscription
01:09:12and that 30-day money-back guarantee
01:09:14by going to the link in the description below
01:09:15or heading to livemomentus.com/modernwisdom.
01:09:18I'm using the code modernwisdom at checkout.
01:09:20That's L-I-V-E-M-O-M-E-N-T-O-U-S.com/modernwisdom.
01:09:25And modernwisdom at checkout.
01:09:29When tricks go wrong, how, first of all, do I--
01:09:33- They never go wrong on perfect, Chris.
01:09:35No, they definitely go wrong.
01:09:36- Do any times come to mind
01:09:37where there was a really big face plant?
01:09:39And then I'm also interested in how you recover from that
01:09:43in front of a live audience, whether it's big or small.
01:09:45Because I think that someone meant to do something,
01:09:48they messed up this thing that they'd maybe planned
01:09:50or prepared, perhaps it was their fault
01:09:52or it wasn't their fault.
01:09:53Something occurred just at the right moment
01:09:55or the wrong moment.
01:09:56Or on a sales call, they quote the wrong number
01:09:57and they notice themselves starting to lose it.
01:10:00What have you learned about dealing with failure
01:10:03in the moment?
01:10:04Can we talk about the more fluffy side of failure,
01:10:07seeing yourself as a failure, the self-labeling,
01:10:09the overcoming of the self-rejection and the esteem side?
01:10:12I think in the moment, winning back,
01:10:14because you have to do that.
01:10:16If you're at the table and you mess up the first one,
01:10:17you go, "I think I might be able to salvage this."
01:10:20What have you learned about dealing with it emotionally,
01:10:22psychologically, and then also trying
01:10:24to charmingly bring that back around?
01:10:26- So I've gotten better on a couple fronts.
01:10:28One, I've gotten better at realizing
01:10:30that people remember the beginning and the end
01:10:33more than the middle.
01:10:34So how you leave someone is so much more important
01:10:36than what happens before that.
01:10:37If you can win somebody back over,
01:10:39that will be the last feeling they leave with.
01:10:41- Peak end rule.
01:10:41- Yeah, huge.
01:10:43And people forget the misses and remember the hits.
01:10:45So that's the key to psychics.
01:10:47So a lot of psychics, if you were to sit in a room
01:10:49and check off, what did you get right?
01:10:50What did you get right?
01:10:51What did you get right?
01:10:52They mostly get things wrong, right?
01:10:53It's kind of the Roger Federer.
01:10:54He only won 54% of his points.
01:10:56He's arguably one of the greatest of all time.
01:10:58- I love that stat.
01:10:58- It's crazy.
01:10:59- Yeah, won 54% of his points, but 80% of his games.
01:11:01- Exactly.
01:11:02It's wild.
01:11:03So win the right point.
01:11:04So with me, I realized that how I end is the most important
01:11:07in a show and the ones that move you.
01:11:09For me, it's 'cause I'm a performer that what matters,
01:11:12but there are still major face plants.
01:11:13There are things that go wrong.
01:11:15And I actually find I learn way more cliche,
01:11:19but from the mistakes.
01:11:20Because it's a mistake that I completely didn't see coming.
01:11:23It really eats me up of like, what happened?
01:11:26How did I misjudge that so much?
01:11:28And some of those you learn from,
01:11:29some of those you kind of take the hit and you move on.
01:11:32I learned in a big way for me is that
01:11:35defining something as a mistake has been a gray area.
01:11:38For years, the only way that you know if I made a mistake
01:11:42is if you know what wasn't a mistake,
01:11:44which is funny because my career is a pick your own adventure.
01:11:48Hear me out.
01:11:49It's very clear in a football game,
01:11:52if you made a mistake 'cause you lost the game, right?
01:11:55The score at the end of the day, mine isn't like that.
01:11:57That trick, I could have never shown you
01:12:00your date of birth at the end
01:12:02and you would have still been impressed.
01:12:04So it could have gone completely wrong on my end
01:12:06and I would have never gone.
01:12:07Or maybe there was a second ending at the end of that
01:12:10that you didn't know that was like the kicker on the kicker
01:12:13that I didn't do that went wrong
01:12:15that you didn't even know. - The criteria for success
01:12:17hasn't been defined,
01:12:17therefore, the failure card. - I never define
01:12:19what the ending is.
01:12:20- I'm going to guess not only your cards,
01:12:22but I'm also going to make sure
01:12:23that the cards are your birthday.
01:12:25- Exactly.
01:12:25So what if that never happened?
01:12:27So what if that last bit never happened
01:12:29you didn't know went wrong?
01:12:30So I've learned that I don't, in essence,
01:12:33foreshadow the ending in many instances
01:12:35of what I'm going to do beforehand.
01:12:37So that if something will go wrong-
01:12:38- You're going to get a get out of jail free card.
01:12:40- I get to get out of jail all the time
01:12:42'cause you don't even know you're in jail
01:12:43when you're performing.
01:12:44So that happens.
01:12:45But before that, there have been mess ups
01:12:48and there's also things where I take a big leap of faith.
01:12:52Like I'm going for stuff.
01:12:53I don't know exactly when this airs,
01:12:55but I'm hosting the White House Correspondents' Dinner
01:12:56this year.
01:12:57President Trump has never attended
01:12:59while in office before, ever.
01:13:01So this is the first time.
01:13:03I believe that that is not a coincidence
01:13:05that he is coming somewhat because I am there
01:13:07because in the past there have been comedians
01:13:08who kind of roast him
01:13:10and my intention is not to roast.
01:13:12- Wouldn't it be funny if you got in there
01:13:14and you decided to do a roast?
01:13:15It's like we're not actually doing any magic this evening.
01:13:18No mentalism.
01:13:19Donald, Tony Hinchcliffe, come on down.
01:13:22It's just a fucking Avengers Assemble of people
01:13:24come in to do it.
01:13:25- Kill Tony.
01:13:25- Well, I mean, that's the ultimate rug pull.
01:13:27You want to talk about that?
01:13:28It's like you've spent your entire career,
01:13:29three, four decades doing this thing.
01:13:31- Just to fake this.
01:13:32- To rug pull the President of the United States
01:13:34into a night roast.
01:13:35- Oof.
01:13:36- I mean, you might lose.
01:13:37- The long game.
01:13:38- You might be jailed,
01:13:39but I think that's the way that you should,
01:13:42that's the swan song.
01:13:43- 50% of you would hate you.
01:13:4450% of you would love you.
01:13:46- I actually think that probably
01:13:47almost all people would love you.
01:13:48Even Trump's biggest supporters
01:13:51would love to watch him go through a roast.
01:13:54He's kind of like hilarious.
01:13:55- He's been roasted before.
01:13:56- That's true.
01:13:57But I mean, Barack Obama roasting him.
01:13:58- He has thicker skin than most people think.
01:14:00- Yeah, Barack Obama doing that,
01:14:03the difference between us is that one of us
01:14:05is going to be president.
01:14:06That's one of the sort of Genesis points,
01:14:09supposedly, who knows,
01:14:11of him deciding that he was gonna run for office.
01:14:13- So that was the last time, 2013.
01:14:15- That was the same one. - That's when he was at it.
01:14:16- Right, right, right, right.
01:14:17- But he wasn't there as president.
01:14:18- Yes. - Yeah.
01:14:19- Barack sort of points him out in the crowd
01:14:21that the difference is that one of us is president
01:14:22or gonna be president.
01:14:24Hilarious.
01:14:24- I mean, it was, it was.
01:14:25- That's sick.
01:14:26So have you got something special planned for The Donald?
01:14:29- The most special thing I've ever planned in my life, I think.
01:14:31I think, again, you never know what will happen,
01:14:34but my hope is that it's kind of like the Joe Rogan moment.
01:14:38When I guess Joe Rogan's pin code,
01:14:40there was a feeling of there's no way
01:14:43that Joe was in on this.
01:14:44There's no way.
01:14:45Joe didn't even know that was gonna happen
01:14:46'cause you can register surprise very clearly.
01:14:48It's very hard to fake surprise.
01:14:50It's truly like even an actor/actress to say,
01:14:52"Oh, if you know what's happening, you can't."
01:14:54That's why a lot of the scenes they do that are surprises,
01:14:56they actually first take surprise them.
01:14:59Like the diehard, you know the diehard one, the drop.
01:15:02- The what?
01:15:04- Allen, is it Allen?
01:15:05What's his name?
01:15:06Allen Rickman?
01:15:07When he gets dropped, oh, spoiler alert, diehard one.
01:15:10Sorry for anyone who hasn't seen it,
01:15:11but it's been 30 years.
01:15:13The drop, I was told, I think I saw the behind the scenes,
01:15:15the director's cut, is, you know, at the end,
01:15:17when he gets that they didn't rehearse that
01:15:19in the first take, they actually dropped him.
01:15:21Like, do you understand that he was, it was, yes.
01:15:23So the first one was an honest one
01:15:25because otherwise it's just like shooting a gun.
01:15:27If you know you jolt up because you registered
01:15:30before you shoot that you're gonna feel it, your body freezes.
01:15:33So I think that, like seeing Joe react to the pin code,
01:15:38he's almost as high level as you know he's not in on it.
01:15:44But a hundred X more is Donald Trump.
01:15:47Donald Trump will not fake it for anyone.
01:15:48- The least compliant man on the planet.
01:15:50- That will, exactly, there is no world in which
01:15:52I can get him to do what I want for any reason.
01:15:56- Guess the nuclear codes, that's a way to do it.
01:15:58- You'll see what happens.
01:15:58- That's something really fucking gnarly.
01:16:00Something really gnarly.
01:16:01And it's like, and a war has begun with Russia,
01:16:04but at least the trick was great.
01:16:05- Yes.
01:16:06- Interesting on the first take thing,
01:16:07McConaughey in Interstellar.
01:16:09So when they go down to the planet that's full of waves
01:16:13and they lose an additional seven years
01:16:15because they're down there for one more wave
01:16:17before they can get out and go back up to the ship.
01:16:20The ship's been receiving all of these messages.
01:16:22So there's these backlog messages for--
01:16:24- Tasty.
01:16:25- Good, there we go.
01:16:26These backlog messages for like two decades.
01:16:29And it's his kids, you sort of watch his kids unfolding
01:16:32as they're saying, "Dad, we haven't heard from you.
01:16:33We don't know if he's gonna."
01:16:34That's the first take.
01:16:35The one that they used was the first take.
01:16:37And he told me the story where he was saying
01:16:40he was waiting, sort of getting himself in
01:16:43and people try and come and speak to you on set
01:16:46before you're about to go in.
01:16:47And he sort of did this thing and he watched it.
01:16:51And sure enough, the first take that they did,
01:16:53I don't think he'd seen what the video was going to be
01:16:57that he was going to be reacting to.
01:16:59And I mean, Danny Trejo told me this as well.
01:17:01This is years ago when I spoke to him on the show.
01:17:03And you've got some Mexican gangster dudes,
01:17:07like massive Mexican gangster covered in prison tattoos.
01:17:10Again, you now need to learn to act.
01:17:11- Right.
01:17:12- Danny's a fascinating human and an interesting actor,
01:17:15but like not classically trained.
01:17:18- Right.
01:17:19- And his whole thing was if you need to walk into a room,
01:17:22sit down and take a drink of water,
01:17:23you don't act like you walk into a room,
01:17:25sit down and take a drink of water.
01:17:27You just do that thing.
01:17:28- Right.
01:17:29- And unfortunately,
01:17:30when you're talking about emotional reactions,
01:17:31after a while it loses its, I mean, after the first time,
01:17:3550, 60, 70% of that emotional intensity is gone.
01:17:38And of the surprise, almost all of it's gone.
01:17:40Which is the same reason that you don't want to do
01:17:42the same trick twice.
01:17:43Comedians can't do the same joke twice, but musicians can.
01:17:47- Oh, so lucky, they are expected to.
01:17:50- Of course.
01:17:51- Imagine you go see Coldplay and you don't do yellow.
01:17:54- If you see the killers and they don't play Mr. Brightside,
01:17:55you feel short change.
01:17:56- Yes.
01:17:57- If you go back and watch Matt Rife do a set
01:18:00that he did last time,
01:18:00which I think is one of the reasons that crowd work
01:18:03is becoming so important.
01:18:04It's such a, I went to go and see Jimmy Carr in Australia.
01:18:07He actually looked after our clothes
01:18:09as we jumped in the sea at Bondi Beach,
01:18:11which was the oddest scenario that me and my video guys
01:18:15and my friends went and jumped in the sea.
01:18:17And Jimmy was like, I'm going to look after the kit.
01:18:18So we sat on the grass on the edge of Bondi Beach.
01:18:22Like dad was watching the clothes as we jumped in
01:18:24and we came back and he's like, I've got a gig to 7,000
01:18:27people that I need to go and get dressed for.
01:18:29But Jimmy's like, afternoon was spent watching our stuff
01:18:31as we fucked about in the sea.
01:18:33Anyway, I went to go and watch him and he does,
01:18:36he must do, I'm not kidding dude,
01:18:39350 jokes in an hour and 40 minutes.
01:18:41- Oh, he's a machine.
01:18:42- Yeah, you talked about sort of up and down for comedians.
01:18:46Jimmy's more like sort of an M140.
01:18:48- Yeah.
01:18:49- But even he's throwing a lot of crowd work in.
01:18:53And I think that a big part of that is that
01:18:55it doesn't matter.
01:18:55People ask you a question, it's always going to be different.
01:18:58It's always going to be new, you're in a new place.
01:19:00And yeah, the differences in terms of art form
01:19:04from musicians and music, which is another key hole
01:19:07in the back of the human brain.
01:19:08Like why, why these rhythms, why these harmonies?
01:19:12Why these particular sorts of progressions?
01:19:13Why tension and release?
01:19:15And why do we like familiarity in music,
01:19:19but we don't like familiarity, even watching a movie.
01:19:21We like watching a movie, but usually the most amazing time
01:19:25is maybe the first or perhaps the second.
01:19:27But after a while Avengers Endgame just sort of starts
01:19:29to lose some of the, and then you need a break.
01:19:32- Right.
01:19:32- You need to take a break from watching Interstellar
01:19:33for five years and then--
01:19:34- Even though comedy is different, some comedies are better
01:19:38the second, third, fourth, fifth time.
01:19:39- That's true.
01:19:40- Wedding Crashers, I can watch Wedding Crashers anytime.
01:19:43That movie--
01:19:44- So I think it's really interesting when you talk about
01:19:46comedy movies, because what you're looking for
01:19:48are your favorite moments.
01:19:49- Moments.
01:19:50- It's almost like a shared microculture around that thing.
01:19:53And perhaps the same thing's true with types of standup.
01:19:57But for the most part, if you're gonna go and see a show,
01:19:58you want a new joke.
01:19:59- You want a new joke.
01:20:00- I know what the answer to this.
01:20:01The only time that you don't want that
01:20:03is if someone is with you that hasn't been.
01:20:05You're like, dude, you gotta listen.
01:20:07We listen to this one, listen to this one.
01:20:08But that's because you want the special, I know,
01:20:11I'm in the know.
01:20:12- And there's an awkward moment that's involved
01:20:14exactly with that scenario when you're showing
01:20:15to someone else something that you really care about.
01:20:17There's this moment of what if they don't think
01:20:19this is funny. - They think it sucks.
01:20:20- And now they think I'm in a,
01:20:22and then you start justifying, go, no,
01:20:23well, it's really funny to me.
01:20:24- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:20:25- That's the worst feeling.
01:20:26- He did it better last time, yeah.
01:20:28It's like being past the Orcs cable at the front of the car,
01:20:31playing a song, you're like, you gotta listen to this
01:20:33and look him back and everyone's like.
01:20:35- Yeah, yeah, that is very awkward.
01:20:37- There is no pain like that, like playing a banger
01:20:40that you think is, it was your top played song last year.
01:20:42Everyone's just like, I'm not a massive fan of Sleep Token,
01:20:45dude, they kinda suck.
01:20:46So--
01:20:48- That's heavy pressure.
01:20:49- Starting from fails, you know, how are you gonna feel,
01:20:52do you think, going into this White House, the dinner?
01:20:55Is that gonna be--
01:20:56- So I'm hyper prepared.
01:20:57It's really, I'm thinking of every scenario
01:20:59that can play out to a degree and just thinking how to,
01:21:03how to kind of, if in every road, A, B, C, D,
01:21:08what can I pull off, what can I do?
01:21:10Most of it is centered around I'm going to be trying
01:21:13to do the most amazing thing ever for Trump.
01:21:15That's the moment.
01:21:16Know that the people in the room,
01:21:17it's also gonna be on live TV, that matters.
01:21:20But what matters is the headline.
01:21:22What matters is the clip.
01:21:24That's really, in today's day and age,
01:21:26what people truly remember is typically one or two lines
01:21:30of text, that's what they know.
01:21:31Think about it.
01:21:32Think about people that you know of and you say,
01:21:35well, what do you know them for?
01:21:36Well, this, well, tell me more about that.
01:21:38Well, I don't, you know, you don't really know much more
01:21:40than that anymore about a lot of people.
01:21:43- Yep.
01:21:43Well, the simplest message is the one that goes the furthest.
01:21:46- Right.
01:21:46- It's a problem because for the most part,
01:21:50answers to the big questions that we care about
01:21:52aren't simple, but the ones that are most memeable,
01:21:54most repeatable, most memorable are the ones
01:21:57that go the furthest.
01:21:58So you actually end up with a world in which the answers
01:22:01become less satisfactory and less accurate
01:22:03as the world's demand for answers becomes greater.
01:22:05And the ones that actually are correct are the ones
01:22:08that are overlooked because they're too complex
01:22:10or too nuanced.
01:22:10So it's too much work.
01:22:12It's too much work for me to work out what this actually is.
01:22:14I would much sooner just have this simple forward sentence.
01:22:17That's great.
01:22:18That works for me.
01:22:19So yeah, you're right.
01:22:20Clipping culture has kind of moved into print culture
01:22:23and memory culture as well.
01:22:24It's everything.
01:22:25- Everything.
01:22:26- How short, condensed, and pure, how weapons grade
01:22:30can I make this one thing?
01:22:31- It's a shame.
01:22:33- But it's also what defines people.
01:22:34You know, there's the peak end rule,
01:22:36which is what you use at the most memorable part
01:22:39of any experience tends to be the most emotionally salient bit
01:22:42the most intense and the end.
01:22:43And sometimes they're the same.
01:22:44That's why bands tend to finish on their biggest song.
01:22:47That's why comedians tend to finish
01:22:48on one of their best jokes.
01:22:49I imagine that the same thing's true for you
01:22:51when you design your set as well.
01:22:52Like how it's going to be the big finish, so to speak.
01:22:54I tried to do the same thing with my live show.
01:22:57I had this idea, the peak hate rule,
01:22:59which is that cultural commentators
01:23:03and individuals in popular culture are defined
01:23:07by their biggest drama and their most recent one.
01:23:11So if you're Jordan Peterson,
01:23:13you are someone who pushed back against Bill C-16 in Canada,
01:23:18and also whatever the fuck he's done recently, right?
01:23:21Something to do with Christianity.
01:23:24If you are Hassan Paika,
01:23:26then you said that America deserved 9/11
01:23:29and whatever he did recently around Iran.
01:23:31But everybody online is defined by their biggest blow up
01:23:35and their most recent blow up.
01:23:36And the same thing is true for the answers
01:23:38that we're looking for as well.
01:23:39It's like, what is the simplest way to define
01:23:43who this person is?
01:23:44Well, we know who this person is.
01:23:45And I think that one of the criticisms
01:23:48that gets thrown around or one of the explanations
01:23:50for why people hate criticism is the only criticisms
01:23:54that hurt are the ones that we believe.
01:23:56Right.
01:23:57I don't think that that's true.
01:23:58I think the criticisms that hurt most
01:24:00are the ones that we know aren't true,
01:24:02but that we fear other people might believe.
01:24:05That's, yeah.
01:24:06That's what optics management is
01:24:07because it's not just the pain of being misrepresented.
01:24:11It's the indignation of knowing that it's not true
01:24:14and the fear of thinking that other people might believe it.
01:24:16Yeah.
01:24:17That altogether, I think, is kind of the eye of the storm
01:24:20of feeling really, really hard done by.
01:24:22It's like, I'm being scapegoated for this thing.
01:24:23I don't deserve to be.
01:24:24I know that it's wrong and I'm worried
01:24:26that other people are going to believe it.
01:24:27That is a real trifecta.
01:24:29So yeah, that's why the optics management thing is important.
01:24:31But dude, Trump, I mean, if you want somebody
01:24:33that has just inbuilt, hilarious responses,
01:24:38I would roll dice in front of him.
01:24:39And I think that whatever he would do
01:24:40would probably be pretty hilarious.
01:24:41There's no bad reaction.
01:24:43So if he's angry, if he's happy, if he's not amazed,
01:24:46if he is amazed, it's a litmus test.
01:24:49It's almost like a mood ring.
01:24:50The mood ring is based on the person observing it
01:24:53and not based on his reaction.
01:24:54Does that make sense?
01:24:55So if I guess something--
01:24:56It's a Rorschach test.
01:24:57It fully is.
01:24:58Because if I guess something, if he is uncomfortable by it
01:25:01or he's amazed, depending on what your view is of him,
01:25:04you will emotionally register that.
01:25:06Does that make sense?
01:25:07I might get something, even if he says I got it wrong,
01:25:10I would say, did I?
01:25:11I think that a lot of people,
01:25:12I think that the majority of people would say,
01:25:14I think he got it right and Trump's lying.
01:25:16Do you understand?
01:25:17I actually think it's an asymmetrical upside bet
01:25:19with whatever I'm going to do.
01:25:21Because, and so I've worked out,
01:25:23the only thing that could happen that's terrible is apathy.
01:25:25Apathy is the worst.
01:25:26Like absolutely not caring or not being engaged
01:25:29or not being involved.
01:25:32Which is, that's my real--
01:25:32And that's when you pull out the roast.
01:25:34Yeah.
01:25:35That's when Tony Hinchcliffe jumps out.
01:25:37Shane Gillis gets Shane out here.
01:25:38You've got him in your pocket.
01:25:39Shane can really nail that.
01:25:40Shane is, do you know Shane?
01:25:42Of course.
01:25:42Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:25:44I'm interested in what you think your work teaches us
01:25:46about how unreliable our perception of reality is.
01:25:50Very.
01:25:51Yeah.
01:25:51What have you learned about that?
01:25:52About people's attachment to reality?
01:25:54I can't believe,
01:25:55this is something that I've kind of had to process is,
01:25:57yes, I've spent 30 years doing this
01:25:59and I've really studied this
01:26:00and it's been my mission to exactly create these moments
01:26:03of wonder and amazement that can't be explained
01:26:06by seemingly reverse engineering the human mind.
01:26:07Knowing how people think
01:26:09and using that knowledge against you
01:26:10in a certain way.
01:26:11And doing this,
01:26:12I've done this for some of the most successful
01:26:14and literally of the top 10 wealthiest people in the world,
01:26:17the majority of them.
01:26:18And knowing that they've run companies, built companies,
01:26:20and I'm not saying that your measure of wealth
01:26:22is a measure of your intelligence.
01:26:24I've also done this for people who've won Nobel prizes.
01:26:26None of those things are de facto.
01:26:28Your IQ doesn't have anything to do
01:26:31with the way in which I fool you
01:26:32and use your behavioral,
01:26:35like your knowledge of your behavior against you
01:26:37and knowing how people think to trick them
01:26:40in a certain way because misdirection, magic,
01:26:42a lot of things, the core principles.
01:26:45What do I, I'm blown away by?
01:26:46How easily people can be fooled.
01:26:49It's wild because it's like what you just said.
01:26:51You said there's a key hole in the back.
01:26:53There's a certain set of tricks.
01:26:54It's like a lock that you have to,
01:26:56you know certain locks, the key doesn't really work.
01:26:59I call it the jiggle master 3000.
01:27:01But if you hit the door a certain way,
01:27:02click up, click over, it opens.
01:27:04Like I had one of those apartments in college
01:27:06where if I gave you the key, you'd be like,
01:27:08"Dude, the key's broken."
01:27:09And I'm like, "No, no, no."
01:27:10- It's both the combination lock and the key hole.
01:27:11- It's everything.
01:27:12I have to lift it up while I do it
01:27:13'cause the lock is not straight
01:27:15and then I have to kind of like jiggle this way
01:27:16and then turn.
01:27:17And if I did it, I'm like, "Don't you know?"
01:27:19Dude, it's broken.
01:27:20It's a jiggle master 3000.
01:27:22Your brain is the same way.
01:27:24And all I've done is learned how to use the keys
01:27:27in different way where if it doesn't jiggle this way,
01:27:30if I say to you this, "Do this," and you're like,
01:27:31"No, I can see that you're gonna move a little this way,
01:27:33"a little this way, and now I've got you."
01:27:35And what people want in general
01:27:38is to feel like they're in control.
01:27:40And I know when people heckle me,
01:27:41people always think the hecklers are the tough ones,
01:27:43the skeptics.
01:27:44I think that's easier because if you can figure out
01:27:46what is the core motivating factor for them?
01:27:49What is it?
01:27:50Is it attention?
01:27:51Is it not looking like they're stupid?
01:27:52Is it not being the center of attention?
01:27:55What's driving their behavior at this moment?
01:27:57If you can figure out what that is,
01:27:59give them what they want within a seeming set of parameters
01:28:04that they've chosen but you've chosen.
01:28:06So again, within the guys on my show,
01:28:07that person wants to call me out.
01:28:09Great, I'm prepared for it.
01:28:10Call me out.
01:28:11Oh man, you're a smart guy.
01:28:12You know exactly what's coming up here.
01:28:13Let's get you, and now you've gotten that shine.
01:28:15You've gotten that love.
01:28:16You've felt like you're the smarter person.
01:28:18I've shown you behind the curtain in a certain way
01:28:20for certain people, and then I do something
01:28:23you don't understand that's more impressive.
01:28:24Now you've bought in.
01:28:26So the same way that a very good comedian
01:28:29neutralizes a heckler,
01:28:30not by punching down where the crowd turns against you,
01:28:34but more of we laugh together at this person
01:28:37in a perfect world, they laugh with you.
01:28:39So we've all won together.
01:28:40It's not a zero sum game.
01:28:42The same thing applies with me.
01:28:43I'm constantly trying to see how I can get to the end goal,
01:28:47which is a huge, amazed reaction.
01:28:49Kind of alchemy in that way.
01:28:51It's jazz, I would describe it.
01:28:53I don't have the song set up.
01:28:54I have different ways that I can go.
01:28:56I can go from this bridge, this chorus, different melodies,
01:28:59and I'm kind of playing people as I go.
01:29:02And that's why I've gotten better.
01:29:03I think if you asked me five years ago, how good were you?
01:29:05I'm like, "Much worse than now, much."
01:29:08Because I improve with time.
01:29:11I'm curious to see what I'll be doing in five or 10 years.
01:29:13- Yeah, well, I'm levitating maybe.
01:29:15I am definitely watching Jimmy work the crowd.
01:29:20I mean, it was 7,000 people at the TikTok arena
01:29:24in TikTok theater, I guess.
01:29:27But it's a big boy in Darling Harbor in Sydney.
01:29:31And, you know.
01:29:32- Shout out to Bondi Beach, to Coogee Beach,
01:29:34one of my favorite runs in the whole world.
01:29:36That is such a beautiful run.
01:29:37- I cross the front?
01:29:38- Yeah, you go along.
01:29:40Yeah, it's like, I don't remember how long it was,
01:29:41but I've done that run.
01:29:42I performed in Sydney once and it was awesome.
01:29:43- Are you still doing,
01:29:44I know you said you ran with Casey Neistat yesterday.
01:29:47Are you still pushing on the endurance stuff at the moment?
01:29:49- Yeah, so I, right now what's happened,
01:29:51and I always had excuses.
01:29:53Do you know Ken Rideout?
01:29:54- Yes.
01:29:55- Yes, I just did his podcast recently.
01:29:56And Ken's like, "That guy just, man."
01:29:58I like seeing people, he's got four kids.
01:29:59He's so busy, wrote a book, and just keeps executing.
01:30:02And he kind of reinvigorated me that day
01:30:05where I have all these excuses, screw that.
01:30:08My baby's old enough now, she's almost a year old.
01:30:09She's sleeping.
01:30:10There was some difficulty where if I don't sleep the night,
01:30:13it's very challenging for me to get up at 5 a.m.
01:30:14I can make all the excuses I want.
01:30:16If I've only slept two hours, I can be tough talking.
01:30:19I could call David Goggins, be like, "Stay hard."
01:30:21I want to go back to bed.
01:30:23So now I've dialed in where I'm waking up five or 5.30.
01:30:27I'm getting an hour and a half to two hour run.
01:30:28No excuses, get it done before anyone's awake.
01:30:30And I had that a few years ago, too.
01:30:32And now I'm finding myself again.
01:30:35'Cause for about a year, I just wasn't really with it.
01:30:37And now I've got a marathon in a week and a half,
01:30:40and I'll probably do an ultra.
01:30:40- When's the White House dinner?
01:30:42- I'm doing the marathon six days before.
01:30:44But I would run a marathon that day if I could.
01:30:47I might run a marathon that morning.
01:30:48That's not a big deal.
01:30:49- Dude, holy shit.
01:30:50- Anything less than 50 miles
01:30:52just has no material impact on me.
01:30:54- How old are you?
01:30:55- I'm 43.
01:30:57- Jesus Christ.
01:30:58- But a 100 miler, 100 mile will give me
01:30:59a little run for the money.
01:31:00But I'd like to do a 100 miler this year, at least one.
01:31:02- But you did a 100 miles inside of Central Park.
01:31:04- 116.
01:31:05- Yeah.
01:31:06- Just four years ago today.
01:31:07- Congratulations, man.
01:31:08- Thanks.
01:31:09- I mean, you're kind of an insane person.
01:31:10(laughing)
01:31:12- I mean, we didn't even talk about the running,
01:31:14but the running is a different form of mind control
01:31:16where just I like to find out what I'm really capable of.
01:31:20And I think that so few of us know what we're capable of.
01:31:24Because it's so easy to talk about stuff
01:31:26when you're not in it.
01:31:27But until you push yourself mentally or physically
01:31:29into a certain point of complete discomfort,
01:31:33where you hit a breaking point,
01:31:34I think it's kind of like the way military operators are.
01:31:36You don't know if that person,
01:31:37why do they do these SEAL trainings?
01:31:39Why do they do hell week, right?
01:31:40Because you can talk tough, but before you get there,
01:31:42you're freezing cold, you haven't slept.
01:31:44All of these factors are working against you.
01:31:46Your core motivating factors like,
01:31:48do I really want it that bad?
01:31:49How bad do I want it?
01:31:51I haven't done it, so I couldn't tell you,
01:31:53but I want the guy or girl who's next to me
01:31:55in a life or death scenario to have made it
01:31:58through that training and found their motivating factor,
01:32:01that they want this so bad that they're willing to do this,
01:32:04because that can't be faked.
01:32:06And so you have to push yourself.
01:32:07So the running is one of those things
01:32:09where I like to get to a certain point where I hate it,
01:32:12don't want to do it, feel miserable, body broken,
01:32:14ideally heat exhaustion.
01:32:16I've had heat stroke, which is very dangerous,
01:32:17don't recommend that.
01:32:18Got through it, somehow got second place at that race,
01:32:21don't ask.
01:32:22But everything breaks down and I 100% want to give up
01:32:27and I talk myself out of it.
01:32:29That right there changes who you are afterwards.
01:32:33It's like a flips a switch where now when you go back
01:32:35to regular life where things are comfortable,
01:32:38which everyone's different,
01:32:39I know a lot of people are struggling,
01:32:41but call it comfortable as you're not in danger.
01:32:44Now you can readjust how you handle situations, I feel.
01:32:48So for me, that was the running.
01:32:49The ultra marathon really does that for me.
01:32:51- What have you learned about being able to push
01:32:53through that discomfort?
01:32:55- That I can do it.
01:32:56That I can do it.
01:32:57That it's your mind plays tricks on you.
01:33:00Your body is directly impacted by the way you think.
01:33:05I had a race called the Spartathlon.
01:33:08It's in my book, I love this race.
01:33:10- Such a dumb name.
01:33:10(laughing)
01:33:12- It's a great race.
01:33:13It's 150--
01:33:13- Alpha Spartathlon 3000 killer.
01:33:16- So it's called Spartathlon for a reason
01:33:18'cause you run from Athens to Sparta.
01:33:20- Oh, unreal.
01:33:21It's 153 miles and it's recreating the run
01:33:24that "Fidipides" did for the movie "300."
01:33:26Did you see "300" with Gerard Butler?
01:33:27So I'm not gonna tell you the whole story,
01:33:29but like that moment where the 300 Spartans
01:33:32defended against the Persians,
01:33:33if they had not held Thermopylae,
01:33:35the Greeks couldn't have assembled an army.
01:33:37They wouldn't have come.
01:33:38They wouldn't have beat them
01:33:39and we wouldn't have civilization today.
01:33:40The Greeks paint it in a very,
01:33:41so the country rallies behind this race.
01:33:43And it's this cockamamie.
01:33:45You have 36 hours drawn 153 miles.
01:33:48It is really tough.
01:33:50And I will tell you that all these other races
01:33:51you'll hear about, some of them are very difficult.
01:33:53There's 200s, 300s.
01:33:54The cutoffs, okay, are very easy on those races.
01:33:57No offense.
01:33:58- The pace.
01:33:59- The pace.
01:34:00Yes, it's hard to run 200 miles or 300 miles,
01:34:02but not if you have six days versus a day and a half.
01:34:05Just space out.
01:34:06You have to be running the whole time.
01:34:08If you take a nap for an hour, get up, walk for an hour,
01:34:10you're toast.
01:34:11You get hit by the cutoffs.
01:34:13I did that race the first year.
01:34:14I did not finish.
01:34:16And when you don't finish the 36 hour race,
01:34:18I got swept, which means I gave up
01:34:20in the middle of the night.
01:34:21The cutoff was behind me, but I gave up.
01:34:23I know I can look in the mirror.
01:34:24I gave up.
01:34:25I was puking for eight hours.
01:34:26Bullshit, I gave up.
01:34:28I could have kept going.
01:34:29I went to bed in a hotel, woke up, had lunch,
01:34:33and watched people that were older than me,
01:34:36that were less physically fit than me.
01:34:38I was a 225 marathoner at the time, which is quite fast.
01:34:41- That's fucking insane.
01:34:42- Yeah, my fast was 223.
01:34:43I'm with a guy who's never run more than a four,
01:34:45fashioned a four hour marathon.
01:34:46He finished the race when I didn't.
01:34:50That changed me for life because I was crying.
01:34:53I was like watching him and I felt so great for him.
01:34:55But I realized at that moment,
01:34:57it had nothing to do with my body, nothing.
01:35:00It's like the matrix.
01:35:01When Neo jumps, it's not your body, it's your mind.
01:35:05I gave up.
01:35:06And I realized at that point,
01:35:07you have the ability to flip that switch.
01:35:11And everything is excuses in life, everything.
01:35:13I've seen people who are like paralyzed,
01:35:14who go play basketball and do things.
01:35:16It's people have a decision where they decide,
01:35:19are the factors external to me,
01:35:20the one that decide what I do?
01:35:22Or internally, I can make things happen
01:35:24and be relentless in my drive.
01:35:25I came back the next year.
01:35:26I was gonna die before I didn't finish that race.
01:35:29It was a complete mental shift.
01:35:31It was no question, I am going to finish this race.
01:35:34And I did.
01:35:34And so it was just a complete different shift in mentality.
01:35:38And again, it's stupid.
01:35:40It's ridiculous.
01:35:40It's not necessarily healthy.
01:35:41I'm not telling people to run ultra.
01:35:43But what I got out of doing that,
01:35:46undoubtedly has allowed me to achieve the success I've had
01:35:48in the rest of my life since.
01:35:50Because it recalibrated my mind from like,
01:35:54to I know what a real 10 out of 10 is.
01:35:56Before, I knew what a six out of 10 was.
01:35:59And I could lie to myself
01:36:00about what the other four out of 10 was for effort.
01:36:02Now I know that if I decide without question,
01:36:04I'm gonna do this, I'm going to do it.
01:36:06And I can look in the mirror and tell myself,
01:36:08I know I'm gonna do it.
01:36:09- So fascinating that you've spent a long time
01:36:13trying to understand how other people's minds work
01:36:15and to manipulate and guess those appropriately.
01:36:18But a good part of the lab that you've learned that in
01:36:20has been internal.
01:36:22- Yeah.
01:36:22- In yourself.
01:36:23- Well, everyone, I think you probably,
01:36:24I still have imposter syndrome.
01:36:26I still am in rooms where I go,
01:36:28how am I in this room right now?
01:36:29How am I?
01:36:31Where you go back to some part of yourself
01:36:33that was probably the most insecure.
01:36:35So like maybe 15 year old me is still somewhere in me.
01:36:38And there's like, I don't know if it's trauma or whatnot,
01:36:40but you don't really believe you deserve it,
01:36:42but you have to earn it.
01:36:43So I still have those.
01:36:45I could be as confident as you could think of
01:36:47on live national TV, millions of people watching.
01:36:49Some part of me is in there that's still that person.
01:36:53But I think overcoming that person is kind of the mental talk
01:36:58that you give yourself is it's there,
01:36:59but I've now earned the fact that I think I'm here.
01:37:01I've worked hard, I deserve it.
01:37:03And I'm gonna tell myself that I'm gonna kill it.
01:37:06- What's the biggest lesson that you've learned
01:37:08about overcoming that imposter syndrome?
01:37:13- I don't know if you can ever overcome it,
01:37:15if that makes sense.
01:37:16Because overcoming it means it doesn't stay there.
01:37:18I think that it helps me in a certain way
01:37:20where if I have a show that other people
01:37:22will think was a 10 out of 10,
01:37:24it might've been a seven and a half out of 10 for me.
01:37:26And I'm gonna be the one who says,
01:37:28"How could I have done that better?"
01:37:29And it's a relentless drive to improve
01:37:32and iterate and improve.
01:37:33And I actually see some people who are in my field
01:37:36who I don't wanna say I'm jealous
01:37:38'cause that's the wrong word,
01:37:39but I envy in a certain way where they go,
01:37:40"I just killed it, that show was amazing."
01:37:42And I'm like, "How do you believe that?"
01:37:44Because I have the best show ever,
01:37:46I'm still looking on how to polish it,
01:37:48how to make it better, how to improve.
01:37:49You have found such fulfillment and satisfaction
01:37:53in not necessarily mediocrity,
01:37:55but I'm obsessed with being the best ever at what I do.
01:37:59- It's very difficult though
01:38:00if you don't have that level of intense self-scrutiny
01:38:02to become the best ever at what you do.
01:38:04- And I might never become the best ever,
01:38:06but if I never stop going for that,
01:38:08I think I will continuously improve.
01:38:10- If you had the mentality of someone
01:38:12who was happy with where they were at or more grateful,
01:38:16it's interesting that gratitude and performance
01:38:18a lot of the time are kind of inverse
01:38:20because the gratitude helps you to not push so much
01:38:24and to not self-assess and scrutinize
01:38:27and self-criticize and improve
01:38:28and continue to sort of exist in that lack.
01:38:31And this is a balance I think
01:38:34that a lot of people are looking at at the moment,
01:38:35which is well, how much do I want to have a string
01:38:38of more miserable successes that reach a higher peak
01:38:42and how much do I want to trade some of that
01:38:44in place of being happy.
01:38:46Contentment, unfortunately, by design.
01:38:48You know, it's radical in the modern world
01:38:50that's filled with ambition and a meritocracy and capitalism
01:38:53and people trying to acquire as much status
01:38:55and acclaim as they can.
01:38:56It's radical to say I'm satisfied.
01:38:58Like that's one of the most radical things that you can do.
01:39:00- It feels like you're dying.
01:39:01People are like, what do you do next?
01:39:02What's next?
01:39:04Like as soon as I do this,
01:39:05even if it's the biggest moment of my career,
01:39:06this White House Correspondents' Center,
01:39:07what's next will be the question you get the next day.
01:39:10It's very funny how that exists.
01:39:12- Right, whenever, middle of December last year,
01:39:15I didn't know that it was the day
01:39:18that the Spotify charts were going to drop
01:39:21and Modern Wisdom was eighth in the world on Spotify.
01:39:24It was amazing for a bit.
01:39:25- I saw that, I saw you post that.
01:39:27- And then--
01:39:29- Then you started saying, how do I get to seven?
01:39:31- Yeah, you go, well, if I'm anything less than eight
01:39:35next year, if I'm not in the top 10,
01:39:36I might as well kill myself.
01:39:37- Right.
01:39:38- And if I'm eight, then it's just about acceptable.
01:39:40If I'm seven, it'll be okay again for a while.
01:39:44And you go, you can see laid out in front of you
01:39:48what the hamster wheel looks like.
01:39:49- It's a hamster wheel.
01:39:50- Correct.
01:39:51- And so that's a very funny thing
01:39:53and it's very hard to relate to.
01:39:55So I feel like it's an obnoxious thing for me to say
01:39:57and you can relate to it,
01:39:58but it's that when things are at their best for me,
01:40:01it's almost, it should be the happiest,
01:40:03but it's almost an inverse
01:40:04because now you say I can only go down from here.
01:40:07- Yeah, if you're number one,
01:40:08there's only one place to go.
01:40:09- There's only one place to go.
01:40:10- The higher you climb is the further you fall, dude.
01:40:12And look, this is the gold medalist syndrome.
01:40:14Michael Phelps is kind of the canonical.
01:40:16Look at Tiger Woods.
01:40:18- Right.
01:40:19- Tiger Woods, the goat.
01:40:20And this week he just flipped his car for the second time.
01:40:23I think he's been in a traffic accident
01:40:24that maybe it's because of alcohol or some drugs
01:40:27or maybe, you know,
01:40:28something that's going on inside of his mind.
01:40:30Like, do you want, like that's the price you need to pay
01:40:32to be the best in the world.
01:40:34That's the price that you need to pay in order to do that.
01:40:36And it's a rare time.
01:40:37I was with some guys in Byron Bay on tour
01:40:41and one of them made a really interesting point.
01:40:43He says, I'm not interested in people
01:40:44that are just successful anymore.
01:40:46It's like, I'm interested in people that are successful
01:40:48and happy and balanced.
01:40:49- I like that idea. - 'Cause that's so much rarer.
01:40:50So much rarer.
01:40:52Dude, the success thing is hard.
01:40:54- Right.
01:40:55- But success and happiness is easily three times harder.
01:40:58And the success and happiness and balance
01:41:00is like 10 times harder than that.
01:41:01- Right. - So, yeah.
01:41:03- And I think what I'm seeing as I continue in life
01:41:05and something that if you do have children,
01:41:07I don't like judge it in a certain way,
01:41:08but children instantly give you a sense of your mortality.
01:41:11There's nothing else that did it for me before
01:41:14and that might be age-related, but I don't think it was.
01:41:16I think that as soon as you see the next person,
01:41:18you just realize that you are just--
01:41:20- One day I'll be gone.
01:41:22- 100%, that's so true.
01:41:23You don't really see it or feel it as much
01:41:25until you see someone else who's your continuation.
01:41:28Who's your continuation, also somebody
01:41:29that you instantly want them to outlive you.
01:41:32So it's hardwired in your DNA where when your children,
01:41:35it's this really crazy thing when they're at a certain age,
01:41:37it's usually between four and five,
01:41:39they realize death and what death is.
01:41:40And sometimes you get these really just crushing moments
01:41:43where they would say to you, "I don't wanna die,"
01:41:45or, "I don't want Grandma to die."
01:41:46And you're like, "You don't know what to say
01:41:47"because we're all gonna die."
01:41:49Unless we get uploaded into the cloud,
01:41:50I don't know what's going to happen, but as of now,
01:41:53I don't want you to die either.
01:41:55But you have to explain to that person that they will
01:41:58and they're not gonna understand what that is
01:42:00and most of us don't because we're in a society
01:42:02that really doesn't, we push death away
01:42:04and we don't really get to experience.
01:42:05Like I have a good friend who's a palliative nurse
01:42:09who experiences death all the time.
01:42:11And for them, it's so different
01:42:12because they're really with it.
01:42:14They understand it, they see it.
01:42:15But for us, how often do you see anyone dead?
01:42:18Like on one handful, I can tell you my whole life.
01:42:22I just haven't experienced somebody seeing someone die
01:42:25or seeing somebody immediately after they're dead
01:42:26that's not at a funeral, like literally twice.
01:42:29I saw somebody come out of a lake that had drowned
01:42:32and it was just a shocking thing
01:42:35because in the movies, it's one thing,
01:42:37but it's not something you experience.
01:42:40And knowing that you will die one day,
01:42:43I think is a liberating thought.
01:42:44And it's one of those things where it takes the edge off
01:42:47of when you say failures, I go, "What does it matter?"
01:42:49In 500 years, nobody knows who I am, you are, any of this.
01:42:53And that actually feels freeing to me in a certain way.
01:42:55- All of their opinions don't matter in any case.
01:42:57- But that allows me to realize how much stuff
01:42:59that I think right now is a big deal isn't.
01:43:02And I have this little thing I call
01:43:04fast forward your feelings where I get caught up
01:43:06in anxious moments of things I don't wanna do that I dread.
01:43:09And I didn't know what to do with it
01:43:10because I would just push them off
01:43:12like the classic procrastination of
01:43:14if I don't wanna make this call, I'm not gonna do it.
01:43:16I'm not gonna do it, I'm gonna keep moving my calendar.
01:43:18And finally, I just decided how bad does this feel right now
01:43:22on a scale of one to 10?
01:43:23How awful do I feel if I were to do this?
01:43:26And I'm like, "Oh, like eight or nine,
01:43:27"I just really don't want to."
01:43:29Right at that moment, do you know what I do?
01:43:31I set an alarm for 24 hours from today.
01:43:34I force myself just like ripping a bandaid,
01:43:36jumping in a pool, set an alarm 24 hours from today
01:43:38and write, "How do you feel?"
01:43:39It's my alarm and I would do it right then.
01:43:41I would do the thing I didn't wanna do right then.
01:43:43I would force myself, pick up the phone,
01:43:45hit call, "Shit, don't do this," and I would just do it.
01:43:47And do you know what?
01:43:48When the alarm went off the next day,
01:43:50if I even remembered it, I would say,
01:43:52"How anxious do I feel now?"
01:43:54Two, not even.
01:43:56And so I decided the same way
01:43:57that I trick people's brains for a living,
01:44:00I'm gonna start tricking my own brain.
01:44:01And when I call it, fast forward your feelings,
01:44:03it sounds so stupid.
01:44:04But when I say it right now, I go,
01:44:05"I'm gonna feel like a two tomorrow.
01:44:07"I'm gonna do it right now.
01:44:08"And I'm gonna feel a two right now instead of an eight
01:44:10"because I actually am in control of my mental disposition."
01:44:15It's just a trick.
01:44:16Your mind is just a series of chemicals
01:44:18that's tricking you to do that.
01:44:19That's what the ultra running taught me.
01:44:21When your blood sugar goes low when I'm running,
01:44:23I go through a checklist of what's wrong right now.
01:44:26What's wrong?
01:44:27And the number one culprit almost always
01:44:29is my blood sugar's low.
01:44:30When that happens, I start saying,
01:44:31"I wanna quit, I feel terrible, I don't wanna do this."
01:44:33Boom, right away, take a ton of calories.
01:44:35See how you feel in five minutes.
01:44:37Don't talk to me before that.
01:44:38Five minutes, talk to me.
01:44:39And when I say me, I mean me to myself.
01:44:41But I just realized through these different parts of my life
01:44:44what's really going on.
01:44:46- I mean, that's Ross Edgeley's thing, right?
01:44:47Suffering strategically managed.
01:44:49He looks at the component parts of what it is
01:44:52that's making him not feel so good in the moment.
01:44:54- Smart, he diagnosed it.
01:44:55It's a diagnostics test, like on an engine.
01:44:57And man, I wanna meet him.
01:44:58You gotta introduce us, 'cause I'm a huge fan of that guy.
01:45:01- He's the fucking man, dude.
01:45:01- Just a shout out to Ross.
01:45:02I DMed him once.
01:45:03I'm like, "Ross, you're unbelievable."
01:45:05He's like, "Thanks, bro, you're a beast."
01:45:07- Most of those guys, at least the dudes
01:45:09that are really, really pushing themselves,
01:45:11there's something deep down that's a kind of a darkness.
01:45:14There's an edge to them.
01:45:15There's only two guys that I've ever met
01:45:17that haven't had that and are in that world.
01:45:19And one's Nick Baer from Baer Performance Nutrition.
01:45:22And the other one's Ross Edgeley.
01:45:23And I really, really tried to push him.
01:45:25Like when we sat down together
01:45:26and then we got to hang out afterwards.
01:45:28And I'm trying to negotiate.
01:45:30- What are you running away from?
01:45:31What are you swimming away from, Ross?
01:45:33- Yeah, where's the shadow?
01:45:34And he's just got this big, happy hippo energy
01:45:39that I couldn't find anything.
01:45:43I couldn't see anything.
01:45:44No, he just really wants to maximize his time on this planet.
01:45:47He's really excitable and excited about doing things.
01:45:51And that's kind of even more terrifying.
01:45:54That's kind of even more terrifying
01:45:55that it's simply just a positive disposition
01:45:59putting yourself through suffering.
01:46:00So I think we understand the alchemizing
01:46:02of pain into purpose.
01:46:04But just choosing pain without the alchemy thing in there,
01:46:09I think is, yeah, he's an animal, dude.
01:46:13- Well, there's so many people that have become sober.
01:46:14There's like a weird overlap of people that are sober
01:46:18that are now in ultra running
01:46:19because you convert one addiction for another.
01:46:21And I'm not saying that's good or bad.
01:46:23I think it is probably better
01:46:24than substance abuse typically to go do running,
01:46:26even though it's left to be seen what damage you're doing.
01:46:28But I think it's better to a degree.
01:46:31But it is fascinating how people will want to push things
01:46:35to extremes and that you watch them.
01:46:37And at its greatest, like Alex Honnold,
01:46:40who I just admire so much, is watching people,
01:46:44risk is one thing, like I don't want to do that.
01:46:46But the fact that somebody else does that
01:46:48brings me tremendous, I don't know if I want to call it joy
01:46:51because I'm not joyful when I watch him do it,
01:46:52but just wonder.
01:46:54Like I re-watched "Free Solo" recently with my kids
01:46:58because we watched the skyscraper thing.
01:47:00And every time I watch it, forget about the fact
01:47:04that my hands get sweaty and that I feel a physical,
01:47:07like tremendous feeling when I'm watching it.
01:47:09The fact that every mistake is death
01:47:11and that you're watching it and I know he's not going to die.
01:47:13So why am I so nervous?
01:47:15But just the fact that you're willing to commit
01:47:17to something like that
01:47:18and that there's people in the world inspires me.
01:47:19It's like that, wow, people will take something
01:47:22and just go for it.
01:47:23It's, I think that's what we want is to be inspired.
01:47:27- Unreal.
01:47:28So coming up next, White House, then Netflix special.
01:47:32Two big things?
01:47:33- The two big things and a few shows.
01:47:34I'm starting to tour.
01:47:35So for the last like 10 years,
01:47:36I've been mostly a corporate act.
01:47:37If you saw me, it was at corporate events,
01:47:39but now I'm doing more and more public shows.
01:47:41And I want to try one more thing with you.
01:47:42- Okay.
01:47:43- I'll leave you on a high note.
01:47:44- All right.
01:47:45- I walked in here, right, beautiful studio.
01:47:47- Thanks.
01:47:48- We shook hands.
01:47:49You hit me up with some delicious drinks, by the way.
01:47:51- That's good.
01:47:52- And I said to you that the same way,
01:47:54I asked you how many podcasts, I want to go through this.
01:47:56How many episodes have you had in this podcast?
01:47:58- 1,100.
01:47:59- So 1,100 moments that hopefully have given people
01:48:03modern wisdom.
01:48:04That was the name of it, right?
01:48:05Successful, interesting people.
01:48:07Find out what makes them tick.
01:48:09All of that sum total has gotten you to be here
01:48:12from February 23rd, 1988 to today.
01:48:15So I want you to close your eyes, okay?
01:48:19And I want you to imagine that you could hop
01:48:21into a time machine,
01:48:23but the time machine is to go through your own life
01:48:26as if you could rewind the same way people say
01:48:28in their last moments, they get to see their life.
01:48:30And if I were to say to you to zip back in time
01:48:33and look into the face of someone who for whatever reason,
01:48:38and this is only in the eye of the beholder,
01:48:41impacted you in some way.
01:48:42This could be great.
01:48:43This could be small.
01:48:44This could be recent.
01:48:45This could be years ago.
01:48:46I prefer, I would say not this year because it's too poignant.
01:48:49There's a recency bias.
01:48:51If you just pick a recent guest and you say,
01:48:52"Oh, I spoke to Sam Harris or Tristan Harris."
01:48:55No good, I don't like that.
01:48:56I want you, this is more of a right brain exercise at first
01:49:01to see if you can visualize that person's face.
01:49:03Can you see?
01:49:04- You want someone from the show?
01:49:05- No, no, I'm so sorry.
01:49:06I had nothing to do with the show.
01:49:07That's not the way, no, I want to make sure.
01:49:10It's someone that had an impact on you that I don't know why,
01:49:13what or how, open your eyes.
01:49:15Now, when I did this, right?
01:49:21And I had you think of someone's name
01:49:23and now I had you think of their face.
01:49:25Someone popped in your head initially, I know.
01:49:31And you go, "Mm, I don't know whether you said to yourself
01:49:32"that's too obvious of a choice or I don't know what."
01:49:34But always you think of someone and there's a hesitation
01:49:38and you go, "Should I do that person?"
01:49:39Just said, "Should I?"
01:49:41And then you switched.
01:49:43I believe, this is very funny because I can't explain why,
01:49:46but it's the difference in body language.
01:49:48I think you switched genders.
01:49:49I think you started with a female and went to a guy.
01:49:51Am I correct?
01:49:52- Yes.
01:49:53- I could tell, I could tell because if it was two women
01:49:55or two guys, the reactions are similar.
01:49:57You asked me about lie detection.
01:49:59I can tell when things are different
01:50:01rather than knowing if they're true or false,
01:50:02but true and false are different.
01:50:04All right, let's try this.
01:50:06The female, the female.
01:50:08I'm gonna get something, you know what?
01:50:10Think back in time
01:50:16and I'm gonna put you on the spot here.
01:50:18Rewind, rewind to, I don't know when this was.
01:50:21So if you were to put a timestamp, if we had a pin.
01:50:24Now, if I asked you an anniversary,
01:50:26you'd know the day, month, and year.
01:50:28If it's more wishy-washy, like I played cricket
01:50:31and it was like a few years.
01:50:33Is this a month, day, and year?
01:50:36A year, a month, and year?
01:50:37Give me some sort of categorization.
01:50:40- With the female?
01:50:41- Whatever it was.
01:50:42Yeah, I don't-- - Yeah, with the first person.
01:50:44It would be a year.
01:50:45- A year. - Yeah.
01:50:46- So one's a year.
01:50:47Now, the fact that you even said that means with the female
01:50:50means that it's different with the male.
01:50:52With the male, what would it have been?
01:50:53- Month and year. - Month and year.
01:50:54That's more details.
01:50:55Let's go with that.
01:50:56That sounds fun.
01:50:57Think back in time.
01:50:59So it's 2026.
01:51:01I know you're born in '88.
01:51:02So we'll go back from the time machine forward.
01:51:03You probably don't remember the first 10 years of your life
01:51:05as vividly, maybe you do.
01:51:07So '90s.
01:51:08The aughts or the zeros, we don't know what to call them.
01:51:10The teens, you laughed.
01:51:11It's in the aughts.
01:51:12Come on, that was too easy.
01:51:13Think odd or even.
01:51:16Odd or even, odd or even, odd or even.
01:51:18Now, you get confused if it was 2000 or 2010
01:51:21'cause you don't know if zeros, even or odd.
01:51:23So I'm like torn.
01:51:24I think it was an odd number.
01:51:24Was it an odd number?
01:51:25- Yeah. - Yeah?
01:51:262007, wasn't it?
01:51:28Am I right?
01:51:29I wanna make sure that the person watching this now
01:51:32who's skeptical, who says, "Oh, he must have researched this."
01:51:36Now, here's what I would say to that.
01:51:38If I had asked you to think of your third grade teacher,
01:51:42then maybe I could have found out
01:51:43your third grade teacher in advance, right?
01:51:45Let's be skeptical.
01:51:46But I wanna make sure you understand,
01:51:47there's no way to research real-time thoughts
01:51:50because you could have thought of anything.
01:51:52I didn't tell you.
01:51:53You completely decided where you would go.
01:51:55Are we in agreement?
01:51:56And you even changed your mind.
01:51:58I didn't tell you, you changed your mind.
01:52:00Think beginning, middle, end.
01:52:01I'm gonna go, you can't see the camera behind me, right?
01:52:06(silence)
01:52:09Let me ask you a question.
01:52:10Why do you know the month?
01:52:11Why do you know the month?
01:52:13- Because when I met this person,
01:52:16I remember where I'd moved into.
01:52:18- Yes.
01:52:19That's what I thought.
01:52:20That's why I went with this
01:52:21because I thought it was something to do.
01:52:22Okay, what month was it?
01:52:23- September.
01:52:24- September is what I thought.
01:52:25That's exactly right.
01:52:26It was in the fall.
01:52:27Fuck.
01:52:31The woman strikes me as somebody where,
01:52:34could you have done your mother?
01:52:35Of course, but that's too impactful.
01:52:37Versus, I think it was a teacher.
01:52:41It's a teacher, am I right?
01:52:42And now when I said third grade teacher,
01:52:44you got kind of tense about it.
01:52:45I don't know which year it's for,
01:52:47but was this a favorite teacher or not so favorite?
01:52:52- Favorite.
01:52:54- Favorite.
01:52:55The guy that you're thinking of,
01:52:56think of his first name.
01:52:58Think of any letter in his first name, right?
01:53:02All of the alphabet.
01:53:02Think of that one letter right now.
01:53:04You didn't do the first letter, did you?
01:53:05- No.
01:53:06- You were like, "Mm, I don't want to do that.
01:53:07That's going to be a giveaway."
01:53:09And then most people will avoid vowels in names
01:53:13because they just think every name has a vowel.
01:53:15So I'm kind of limiting myself,
01:53:17but I don't know if you did that.
01:53:19I think you probably, did you think of a vowel?
01:53:20- Yeah.
01:53:21- Yeah, so you kind of knew that and you went against me.
01:53:24You think of the letter A?
01:53:25- Yes.
01:53:26Fuck.
01:53:28I feel like-
01:53:31- Think of his last name.
01:53:33Are you thinking of it?
01:53:34There's some sort of,
01:53:37there's some sort of judgment here.
01:53:41The last name is, is it hyphenated?
01:53:46That's why.
01:53:47You thought of two different people.
01:53:48Oh my goodness.
01:53:49- It's hyphenated.
01:53:50- It's hyphenated.
01:53:51Yeah, you're like, "Yeah, he didn't take the mom's,
01:53:52the dad's name."
01:53:53I'm going to go with this.
01:53:54I can't tell you anything.
01:54:00I might not have spelled this right there.
01:54:02Ask yourself this question.
01:54:03Tell your audience right now.
01:54:04Before I walked in this room, had we ever spoken?
01:54:07Had we ever set up?
01:54:08Is this, have you written this down
01:54:10on a piece of paper somewhere?
01:54:12Is this in your phone?
01:54:13Did you, is there any way in the world
01:54:15I could have gone on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter,
01:54:17and found this out?
01:54:181% or 0%?
01:54:19- 0%.
01:54:20- Who'd you think of?
01:54:23What's this guy's name?
01:54:24- Dave Gardner-Chan.
01:54:25- Dave Gardner-Chan.
01:54:26- Fuck you, dude.
01:54:28- No.
01:54:34(laughing)
01:54:36- You need to be locked up.
01:54:37Oh my God.
01:54:40- And then the best part, the best part is the alley-oop.
01:54:44It's right at the end, which is, come on over.
01:54:46I always like to do this.
01:54:47You changed your mind.
01:54:48That is the gold standard for this.
01:54:51The gold standard is you think of something
01:54:52and at the last moment you go,
01:54:54I'm going to change my mind, right?
01:54:55Because that shows it's real.
01:54:56That's the moment.
01:54:57If you change your mind, shake my hand, go back in time.
01:54:59How old were you?
01:55:00This teacher, give me a guess.
01:55:01How old were you roughly?
01:55:02Give me a guess.
01:55:03Mrs. Wilkinson, right?
01:55:04- Fuck you.
01:55:05(laughing)
01:55:10- Jesus Christ.
01:55:26- I feel like, I feel like prey in water.
01:55:32I feel like prey in water and you're a shark.
01:55:34- I don't know if you knew this.
01:55:35I couldn't do any of this before I arrived here.
01:55:36It's just because I've been drinking Nutonic.
01:55:38That's the only way.
01:55:39- Bingo.
01:55:41I knew there was an ad read.
01:55:42That's the triple hitter.
01:55:43Forget guessing the names, dude.
01:55:45It's the fucking ad read at the end.
01:55:46Bro, you're amazing.
01:55:47This is--
01:55:48- Appreciate you.
01:55:49Long time coming, my friend.
01:55:50I'm super psyched.
01:55:51- Good luck.
01:55:52I can't wait to see what the Donald does in response to this.
01:55:54- Me too.
01:55:55- If he punches you in the face,
01:55:55that'll make headlines. - I would love that.
01:55:58- It's great.
01:55:58It's great press.
01:55:59- That would be heaven.
01:56:00Appreciate you, man. - Thank you.
01:56:02Thanks for having me.
01:56:03- All right, goodbye, everybody.
01:56:04Bro, you're the man.
01:56:05- Thank you.
01:56:06- Thank you very much for tuning in.
01:56:09If you enjoyed that episode,
01:56:10YouTube knows who you are deeply.
01:56:14It thinks you're going to like this one even more.
01:56:17Go on.
01:56:18Press it.
Community Posts
No posts yet. Be the first to write about this video!
Write about this video