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00:00:21I feel like I bring you in when there is a evolutionary psychology-informed furor happening,
00:00:28and obviously our third guest today, Sydney Sweeney, has a big natural pair of problems
00:00:36that she's embroiled herself in. Before we get into that, can you just make it known,
00:00:41what was that feminism, feminist award that your research team won a while ago?
00:00:49A while ago, I myself won an award, the Feminist Evolutionary Psychology Society
00:00:56FEPPS award for a poster I did at a conference a couple of years ago, but it's nice to have that
00:01:03in the back pocket when I'm accused of sexism or whatever. Not that that happens that often.
00:01:07It is me flagrantly putting your legitimate feminist bona fides out there ahead, just in case we get
00:01:13shouted at today. So look, for the people that didn't see it, Sydney Sweeney did an ad for a betting
00:01:21company called Novig Sports Betting Company, prediction market adjacent thing, but it's exclusively for sports.
00:01:27And she does an ad. And I guess we probably should start off by watching the ad.
00:01:32It's for research purposes. You think you know sports? Prove it.
00:01:39Novig is just sports. So they wanted a show. Just sports. You can trade this sport. And this sport.
00:01:53How about this? This sport too. Or this? Sports. Sports. Sports. Sports. Sports. Sports. Sports. Sports. Sports.
00:02:08You can't trade this. I just look at here. No betting on wars or deaths. And no politics.
00:02:17Just you. Your takes. And sports.
00:02:23Yeah. So the internet responded as in the most predictable way, I think. Anyone that's surprised
00:02:30can call out that there seems to be some double standards going on here, that it's not reflective
00:02:36of what was actually meant, that they're pointing their eye in the wrong direction. There is nothing
00:02:41surprising to me about that. Were you surprised at all?
00:02:44No. I mean, she has a significant stake in this company. So she wants it to be a success. It's
00:02:50obviously geared towards young men. They're the target market for any sports betting company. So
00:02:57she understands the oldest maxim in advertisement or marketing that sex sells. And she backs herself
00:03:04on that front to be the face or body of her own brand. Power of bodies.
00:03:11It makes sense. But hearing some of the backlash, I mean, I heard an Irish radio presenter, I
00:03:17can't, I can't think of his name, but he claimed that she in 40 seconds has set female sport
00:03:24back 40 years. And I hear that and I think, what an incredibly sexist, low kind of view of
00:03:31female sports.
00:03:32Well, they're so tenuously held in popularity that a girl with big titties is able to undo
00:03:37it in an ad.
00:03:38All undone with cleavage. Yeah. It's like, that's ridiculous. That's absurd to suggest,
00:03:43especially when there's other bigger issues, threatening female sports, trans athletes.
00:03:48Well, it's very interesting, very interesting that nobody has an issue identifying who the
00:03:53women in sports are during this conversation.
00:03:55Absolutely. Yeah. And these commentators were presumably silent about the trans women in
00:04:01sports issue as well. So yeah, the New York Times had this piece where one of the quotes,
00:04:07the reason Sydney Sweeney's advertisement has infuriated so many women in sport is that if
00:04:12there is a group that has managed to genuinely force change in the perception of what women
00:04:15are capable of since the turn of the century, of what it means to be a strong and powerful
00:04:19woman, to be a girl without prostrating to the male gaze, it is women in sport.
00:04:24Pretty good reply to that. It's pretty amazing to watch them suddenly pretend to be offended by risque images.
00:04:29These people have insisted for years that the full blown prostitution of women is legitimate and empowering.
00:04:34They've adopted countless graphical sexual female rap and pop songs as anthems for their movement.
00:04:39Now a naked woman in advertisement is setting women back, not even the slightest attempt to be consistent.
00:04:45And I do think that one of the first things people saw was, hang on a second, I thought it was my body, my choice.
00:04:51I thought empowerment and the sexual revolution was something that was giving women freedom as opposed to taking it away.
00:04:59Most of these commentators will probably be pro sex work, pro only fans.
00:05:04They'll certainly be pro female financial independence.
00:05:08And I didn't know this until today.
00:05:10Sydney Sweeney isn't an ambassador for that company.
00:05:13She is an owner.
00:05:14Yeah.
00:05:15She part owns that company.
00:05:16Yeah.
00:05:17So she has legitimate skin in the game and upside enticement, a justification for doing it.
00:05:26She's profiting from every single one of these.
00:05:28So yeah, it does seem like the modern conception of what a desirable woman is supposed to be is kind of coming into conflict with, yeah, but we don't want you to do it that way.
00:05:41Yeah.
00:05:42Or if you're the wrong person, the very same act of self-sexualization can be seen as empowering if it's the right person in the in-group in your tribe.
00:05:52But if it's someone who's coded as in any way right wing or even just not sufficiently woke, for want of a better word, then the same behaviors are kind of criticized, you know?
00:06:05It's remarkable how puritanical and conservative some of the criticism has been, how sex negative it's been as soon as it's just targeted.
00:06:12Put your fucking clothes back on.
00:06:13Who do you think you are?
00:06:14Literally.
00:06:15Yeah.
00:06:16Yeah.
00:06:17I'm trying to like steel man the case for why this is bad.
00:06:21It's kind of hard to do because it seemed like this weird Rorschach test that I failed, where lots of people that had a problem with it seemed to assume that Sydney Sweeney was saying, this is what women's sports is like.
00:06:36As opposed to this is a gambling app and you should go and use it regardless of the gender of the person that's playing the sport.
00:06:44Yeah.
00:06:45And then also the double standard of literally last week, there were viral videos going where the tennis player, the Spanish guy taking off his shirt and women literally the camera panning it over to them, taking out their phones.
00:06:57Married women.
00:06:58Yeah.
00:06:59With the wedding ring.
00:07:00With the wedding ring.
00:07:01As you do, congratulations, by the way.
00:07:02Exactly.
00:07:03Williams engaged.
00:07:04Everybody give him a round of applause.
00:07:05There we go.
00:07:06You fucking made it out, dude.
00:07:07You got escape velocity.
00:07:08Yeah.
00:07:09Out of the incel life.
00:07:10So incel research is no longer me, sir.
00:07:14Well, you are not yet.
00:07:15Not until you've made it down the aisle.
00:07:17But yeah, very strange to see that.
00:07:19And then a lot of the pushback is trying to steel man it.
00:07:23The reason I struggle is that a lot of the pushback was you are saying something about women's sports.
00:07:27As opposed to you are saying something about women in gambling.
00:07:30Um, I don't quite get even the, you are setting women back in sports thing because ESPN has done a naked issue over and over.
00:07:40There's like countless examples.
00:07:42Ronda Rousey was naked on the front cover of it.
00:07:44Serena Williams or Venus Williams was naked on the front cover of it.
00:07:47There was a chick that I saw a blonde girl with a full back piece.
00:07:50I look in real strong with a, uh, amputated leg and a prosthetic limb climbing naked.
00:07:57Oh, there was an entire Megan Rapinoe did it.
00:07:59The, the female, uh, soccer player from America.
00:08:02There was this entire lineup.
00:08:03It might've been, was it the female USA team were all naked back to back.
00:08:09Um, and you go, okay.
00:08:10So what, what is going on here?
00:08:13And then the thing that really struck me, basically women have done everything they can in sports to avoid the male gaze or to escape the male gaze.
00:08:20Like that was the one that was the most insane.
00:08:23The only reason anyone is watching female sports is because of the male gaze.
00:08:27Like who is the biggest consumer of female sports?
00:08:31Men.
00:08:32Men by miles.
00:08:33Yeah.
00:08:34By miles.
00:08:35Yeah.
00:08:36So to steal man the argument, you could make the claim that it's okay for female athletes to self sexualize themselves.
00:08:43If a by-product of their being in the sport is cultivating a very sexy body, they can themselves can use that to attract people to watch the sport could be argued that Sydney Sweeney is trivializing women's sport on that grounds, or it's just plain old tribalism.
00:09:00But I do think there's a, something deeper going on.
00:09:02Well, she's not pretending to be a sports star and to steal man it.
00:09:05Okay.
00:09:06Let's say that she's wearing the outfit, right?
00:09:08Like she's got the, she's got the kit on.
00:09:10So it's off largely, but like some of it is on.
00:09:13Um, therefore she's the LARPing as, as a sports star of some kind.
00:09:18Let's say that that's the case.
00:09:19Okay.
00:09:20But still the priority of the ad is not around her playing sports.
00:09:23It's around the gambling.
00:09:25So if you were a sports star, like LeBron, I think, did he do Calci or Polymarket recently?
00:09:30I think he did Polymarket.
00:09:31And, um, if we found out that LeBron is somebody that you could bet on, wasn't betting.
00:09:37You go, ah, well, he's misrepresenting the illustrious community of betters out there.
00:09:43The gambling people, he's not being, he's not sufficiently representative.
00:09:47So, okay.
00:09:48But like that is, I'm like nitpicking because I want to like try and point out some of the hypocrisy.
00:09:54Like, is there any way really to quantify if Sydney Sweeney is damaging the perception of female athletes or setting them back a hundred years?
00:10:01Like how, how could that even happen?
00:10:03Yeah.
00:10:04Like extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, but they're very flippant with these massive claims.
00:10:09And like I say, it's a low opinion of women's sport and how far it's come.
00:10:12I'm from Ireland.
00:10:13One of our greatest athletes of all time.
00:10:15Katie Taylor selling out Crowe Park.
00:10:17Uh, one of the best female boxers of all time.
00:10:20Uh, I don't think her achievements are undone now by Sydney Sweeney.
00:10:24Like that's just a preposterous claim.
00:10:26And, uh, yeah, it's just, uh, absurd.
00:10:29And it's kind of like the fixation on these micro topics.
00:10:33Uh, another example that's kind of somewhat related is, uh, at home in Ireland, Michael O'Leary.
00:10:39He's gotten in trouble recently for some flippant comments in the media.
00:10:43He's the owner of Ryanair and he's always very kind of outspoken in the media.
00:10:48And he described other airlines prices as raping the consumer lately.
00:10:52And, uh, you know, uh, crisis organizations are just up in arms about this and he won't apologize.
00:11:01And they're demanding he apologize and he won't.
00:11:03He says, uh, no, it's, it's no laughing matter.
00:11:06It's a, uh, you know, I did use that word to describe a terrible thing, what they're doing.
00:11:10I don't demean the actual crime.
00:11:12And just in the same week that they're fixating on that, uh, a girl in my hometown of Galway.
00:11:19Uh, there's stories about her having been ganged by two migrants and total silence, uh, on that for, on that story.
00:11:26And it feels like, yeah, it feels like they're focused on the wrong thing.
00:11:31It's the same with the sport and the trans athletes.
00:11:34It's like, where was your outrage then?
00:11:36Yeah.
00:11:37I do think that the counter reaction we're seeing could be more damaging to women than the ad itself.
00:11:41And women are being made to look in a month long period where they've already been kind of emotional and hysterical in some corners of the internet with Lindsay Clancy.
00:11:50They're not looking that serious.
00:11:54Yeah.
00:11:55Now they're looking quite emotional.
00:11:57Would it have been better question?
00:11:59Would it have been better if it was a female athlete who was hot and right wing coded adjacent still like Sophie Cunningham.
00:12:05You know who that is tall blonde, like quite hot, uh, gold that plays basketball.
00:12:09It's six foot four, probably like, and, um, she did a thing, I think at the UFC.
00:12:15I think she's come out against sort of trans athletes.
00:12:17She definitely presents as right coded.
00:12:19She's at all of those sorts of events.
00:12:21Uh, if she'd done it, I don't think that the pushback would have been much less.
00:12:27It would have been different, but it would have been much less.
00:12:30It would have been about the sexualization of sports.
00:12:32The legitimacy angle wouldn't have been sort of laughed at, but I still think that that would have been heavily pushed back against.
00:12:38Yeah.
00:12:38I think you're right.
00:12:39It just zeroes in on their tribal psychology.
00:12:41That's activated.
00:12:42It's okay.
00:12:43When one of our group does it, but not okay.
00:12:46If someone who hasn't, uh, expressed their bona fides of the ideology enough, then it's not okay.
00:12:52All right.
00:12:53I've laid out the cultural landscape as best I can.
00:12:55I brought you in so that you can explain psychologically what's going on.
00:12:59Sort of the evolutionary underpinnings of how.
00:13:02Intrasexual competition, female coalitional psychology, all of that stuff.
00:13:07Works in order to cause this to happen and to keep happening.
00:13:10Cause it happened last time with the American Eagle ad.
00:13:13I'm sure it'll happen again in future as she just continues to like, basically use other people's.
00:13:18Ia as exit liquidity for her own bank account, which is kind of hilarious.
00:13:24So why do women hate Sydney Sweeney?
00:13:26So there are two big reasons why women hate Sydney Sweeney.
00:13:31No, there are three evolutionary psychology ideas that are central to my take on why Sydney Sweeney specifically.
00:13:39Incurs so much ire from women in particular.
00:13:43So the three concepts that we'll go through are.
00:13:46Intrasexual competition, which probably heard a lot of people talk about in this context.
00:13:50Sexual economics theory.
00:13:52And the overlapping concept of female coalitional psychology.
00:13:56So their group psychology, how they make friendships and how that's different to men's.
00:14:01So the first one, intrasexual competition.
00:14:04It's pretty straightforward.
00:14:05Once you know the mate preferences of each sex, that sets the ground rules for the zones of conflict.
00:14:12And for the kind of terms of intrasexual competition.
00:14:16So the types of things that each men and women get jealous or insecure or anxious about, about rivals.
00:14:23Are rivals that embody the mate preferences of their preferred sex.
00:14:28So men get jealous and insecure and anxious around rich, formidable men who embody the preferences of women.
00:14:36I have a hypothesis that men get jealous around funny men, which I call the green-eyed giggle hypothesis.
00:14:41But maybe we can put a pin in that and come back to it later.
00:14:45But women are shown in the research to get jealous about younger, younger looking and more beautiful women, which are the key preferences of men.
00:14:55So Sydney Sweeney obviously is very, very attractive young woman.
00:15:00But there are lots of attractive young women.
00:15:02Yes.
00:15:03Right.
00:15:04So why Sydney Sweeney specifically?
00:15:05Yeah.
00:15:06The reason is that she aggressively prostrates herself or kind of presents herself as appealing specifically to the male gaze.
00:15:14Without first coming in and kind of assuring all the other women that she's not a threat.
00:15:20That she's not doing it for men.
00:15:22That she is actually specifically coming out and saying, I am for the male gaze.
00:15:27She puts Instagram posts up saying this is for the boys.
00:15:30All of this.
00:15:31And that just cues a threat to other women.
00:15:34If you think in terms of our evolutionary psychology, why women evolved an intra-sexual competition style of being kind of more quiet about it.
00:15:46Subdued somewhat.
00:15:47Yeah.
00:15:48Sydney Sweeney violates all those norms.
00:15:51Women are meant to compete.
00:15:53It's very costly for women to make enemies.
00:15:56Throughout ancestral history, they are responsible for the well-being of their offspring.
00:16:01So if they die, if they incur physical violence, their offspring likely dies as well.
00:16:07Whereas for men, they can get into physical alterations and it's not as direct of a threat to their fitness.
00:16:13So this led to the selection of intra kind of social adeptness in women who are very good at kind of indirect competition.
00:16:25So if you're going to compete with another woman, you need to, you can't be so direct about it.
00:16:31It's not overt.
00:16:32It's much more covert.
00:16:33It's much more subliminal.
00:16:34Yeah.
00:16:35It's done by derogating.
00:16:36Well, what you actually, that'd be interesting.
00:16:39What is it that tends to be attacked in women against women and in men against men?
00:16:44So women use things like feigning concern about another woman so that they're not seen as having attacked her.
00:16:51It's seen out of, oh, the goodness of my heart, I'm looking out for your well-being or something.
00:16:57They will attack things.
00:16:59They'll derogate stuff that represents the woman's mate value to men.
00:17:05So specifically with Sydney Sweeney, you see a lot of women online saying, it's not intersexual competition.
00:17:11It's not jealousy.
00:17:12She just seems like the type of girl who would steal your boyfriend.
00:17:16And that's literally signaling to all the other women.
00:17:19This girl, you know, makes herself appealing to the male gaze so aggressively and so directly without concern for what women think.
00:17:28She prioritizes the male priority over our group priority.
00:17:34She has to pay a cost from the sisterhood from the group now.
00:17:37So she will, in terms of coordinated condemnation, we all shun her.
00:17:42But also, you're telling other men, you think that this blonde, attractive girl with big boobs is your dream partner.
00:17:50But what I'm telling you is, because of the way that she's presenting, her fecundity, her level of loyalty to you isn't going to be what you dream of being the bad boy that she's just a good girl for, but she's a bad girl for everybody.
00:18:03And you don't want to be with that.
00:18:04It's like, uh, implicitly, uh, diminishing her, her long-term mate value and implying she has short-term mate value only.
00:18:13Yes.
00:18:14Which most women don't want to only appeal to men's short-term mating psychology.
00:18:17Well, what's interesting is guys will say to another guy, when shit talking another guy, like you're a pussy.
00:18:23They'll say something about his level of formidability, something about his level of sort of status.
00:18:28He's a bum.
00:18:29Yeah.
00:18:30How well liked he is, what his prospects are like for the future.
00:18:33Whereas women, if they are shit talking, which will tend to be behind the scenes as opposed to, uh, someone's face.
00:18:38But if they are doing that, it's going to much more be about this girl's, uh, sort of sexual morality.
00:18:45Uh, also about their looks.
00:18:47Uh, she's getting old.
00:18:48She can't do her hair.
00:18:50She's a, because those are two of the things that men really care about.
00:18:54What does the girl, what does the woman look like?
00:18:56And is she going to be loyal?
00:18:57Yeah.
00:18:58So the key thing is that Sydney Sweeney has pretty aggressively and vocally signaled to other women and to men that she is prioritizing men over the group women as a group.
00:19:08Yeah.
00:19:09So women are punishing her for that.
00:19:11And, uh, they organize this coordinated condemnation that she's, she's out.
00:19:15She must pay a social cost for doing that.
00:19:18The other key idea that's kind of relevant and kind of similar is the idea of sexual economics theory.
00:19:24And the idea there is that, uh, if you think about sex or sexual access as a resource, there's different levels of cost that men typically have to pay to get it.
00:19:35And the highest cost is marriage and commitment or in the lowest cost is, you know, promiscuous short term sex.
00:19:42And women kind of, as a group, they're kind of like the cartel with the cost of sex.
00:19:47They have to kind of police each other on who's offering it, uh, for what.
00:19:50So women might really feel annoyed about what Sydney Sweeney is doing and think, oh, if she's appealing to the men so specifically and doing exactly what men want instead of what women want.
00:20:01Uh, then maybe I have to do that too, because if everyone in your town or in your village starts doing that, then that will become the expectations for you.
00:20:10So that plays into it a little bit too.
00:20:12Yeah.
00:20:13The price enforcement mechanism of slut shaming is basically the same thing.
00:20:16If we're two women and I give out blowjobs on the second date, but you don't give them out until the sixth date, I have a degree of competitive advantage in the marketplace.
00:20:25Therefore it's in your interests. If you want to keep the price of sex to be expensive, it's in your interests to enforce a shame mechanism on anyone that is too freely giving with their sex, because that means that they need to raise the price as opposed to lowering the price.
00:20:43It means you don't want to be sort of beaten to the beaten to the jump.
00:20:46I had this theory a long time ago that the, um, price enforcement mechanism for slut shaming is the same thing.
00:20:51The equivalent for men is the price enforcement mechanism for simp shaming.
00:20:54Absolutely.
00:20:55Women are giving away sex without commitment and men are giving away commitment without sex.
00:20:59Yeah.
00:21:00And I think that this is so beautifully mirrored.
00:21:02It's really nice when we see this.
00:21:03So like guys will call another guy a simp because if you withhold loyalty and resources until a woman gives you sexual access, that means she has to give you sexual access in order for you to trade off your loyalty and resources.
00:21:15Which means if some guy is prepared to give loyalty and resources without sex, the price of your loyalty and resources is immediately brought down.
00:21:22And if you don't like the example, talking about sex and blowjobs and stuff on a second date, sometimes rubs people up the wrong way.
00:21:28If you don't like that example, just invert it, make it about loyalty and resources and you go, okay, it's the same dynamic.
00:21:33It's just a little bit less icky.
00:21:34Yeah.
00:21:35And we see this in sex ratio research.
00:21:37When the scarcer sex in any sex ratio in a city or a country, they have more bargaining power to get what they want on the mating market.
00:21:45And they have higher standards for their mate preferences.
00:21:48And they also shift a sexual strategy.
00:21:50So when men are scarce, men and women shift to a more promiscuous short term mating strategy.
00:21:56When women are scarce and they're the rare commodity, they have greater bargaining power in that sex ratio mating ecology.
00:22:03Then men become more commitment oriented.
00:22:05So it's a pretty well established finding.
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00:23:11What about say more on the indirect competition, egalitarianism side of coalitional psychology for women?
00:23:18So women have evolved tendencies.
00:23:20Tendencies were selected for like leveling, preferring that there's no contest, that we share the prize.
00:23:29Women are uneasy about taking credit for a victory.
00:23:33They prefer to play down their achievements.
00:23:36Whereas men, they actually, they love there to be rules of the game.
00:23:40Even from very young ages, men and boys need there to be a winner and a loser.
00:23:44You need to keep score during the game or it's no good.
00:23:47And this has come through in the work of Joyce Benenson, Marianne Fisher, Tanya Reynolds.
00:23:53It's pretty well established that this is fundamental differences in how men and women compete and what they prefer.
00:24:00So Sydney Sweeney is kind of coming in, all guns blazing, saying, I'm going to compete aggressively and prioritize what men want without prostrating herself and saying, oh, I'm not a, I'm one of the girls.
00:24:13So take the opposite example is someone like Sabrina Carpenter, who self sexualizes a lot, but aggressively signals that she's kind of more team girl.
00:24:25She's a girl's girl.
00:24:26And she writes songs about men being man child, all of this stuff.
00:24:31She's very obviously signaling that she's doing it for girls.
00:24:36What was that tweet that we had?
00:24:38That was a quote tweet of someone calling out why it is that women hate Sydney Sweeney, hate Sydney Sweeney, but love Sabrina Carpenter.
00:24:47There was a tweet.
00:24:48So this is Sydney Sweeney with the football balanced on the back of a boots naked line on a bench and Sabrina Carpenter on the front cover of Rolling Stone in a pair of thigh high stockings.
00:25:02And it says Sabrina superstar.
00:25:04Sydney Sweeney is a putter and Sabrina Carpenter is a diva pop.
00:25:08And the quote here is the difference is that Sabrina does it because she feels good about herself doing it, not encompassing our gender and hyper sexualization for male pleasure.
00:25:17That is literally saying one is for the girls.
00:25:21The other is for the boys.
00:25:22Yeah.
00:25:23Even though boys will enjoy it just all the same, pretty much.
00:25:27Yeah.
00:25:28Yeah.
00:25:29Yeah.
00:25:30Yeah.
00:25:31Click right.
00:25:32Yeah, exactly.
00:25:33The difference is one is clearly for male attention.
00:25:34The other is it's pretty obvious.
00:25:35Sabrina Carpenter caters to the female gaze and takes pride in her sexuality.
00:25:38Swastika Sweeney caters to the male gaze and wants men to validate her sexuality.
00:25:42I mean, it's just, it's like clearly a man's brain believes that everything is the same.
00:25:46Sabrina is sexualizing herself and it is in the world of art and entertainment where nudity is relatively normal.
00:25:52While Sydney is promoting a campaign that denigrates female athletes, this no, it fucking doesn't of the two art forms, one being gambling and the other being art and entertainment.
00:26:04I certainly, if you want to say that is so derogating to arts and entertainment to say, oh yeah, you're at the, you're in the same league as gambling.
00:26:13Yeah.
00:26:14And also, so if you've self-sexualized to fight the patriarchy and that's why you say you're doing it, then that's fine and believed for the girls.
00:26:21If you don't, if you don't signal to the female group that you're one of them and you care about their concerns.
00:26:27And that's another key thing is women must very vocally signal to other women that they care about the concerns they have as well and signal that they're an empathetic, caring person.
00:26:37So Sydney Sweeney has never come out and aggressively fought the patriarchy.
00:26:42She's not signaled about Palestine or whatever the, you know, causes that women are caring about a lot at the time.
00:26:49In fact, she's done quite the opposite.
00:26:51And she's kind of signaled that she cares about things men care about.
00:26:54Yeah.
00:26:55And that can be seen as leaving women as vulnerable because the things men care about sometimes can leave women exploited.
00:27:02So maybe that's how they feel towards her.
00:27:05Yeah, there was this Stephanie girl who wrote a really interesting tweet that said that Sydney Sweeney is the funniest stress test feminism has ever encountered because I thought it was the patriarchy that reduces women to their bodies, denies them individual agency and imposes rules on female sexuality based on what everyone else thinks women ought to be.
00:27:24Meanwhile, Sydney is independently wealthy, produces her own projects, owns businesses, chooses to monetize her own sexuality, gains power from doing it, and appears completely uninterested in anyone's permission.
00:27:34And somehow the feminist response is thousands of women materializing to explain that her body is actually a collective political resource.
00:27:42And she has a responsibility to use it in ways they approve of because otherwise she's setting women back a hundred years.
00:27:48Fucking lol.
00:27:49Congratulations, ladies.
00:27:50You defeated the patriarchy by becoming an enormous decentralized committee of women policing another woman's sexuality, scolding her for appealing to men and reminding her that individual choices must remain subordinate to what is best for women as a class.
00:28:03Perhaps the funniest part is that the men supposedly enforcing this grand patriarchal system are mostly standing off to the side like Sydney seems great, let her cook, while the feminist liberation committee is furiously drafting new regulations for what she's allowed to do with her own gigantic knockers.
00:28:18Incredible operation.
00:28:19Incredible operation.
00:28:20You guys are fucking killing it.
00:28:21Extremely boss, babe.
00:28:22Very liberation.
00:28:23No notes.
00:28:24Yeah, absolutely.
00:28:25It's puritanical in style, policing the sexuality exactly like I said with sexual economics theory.
00:28:30It all hangs together nicely.
00:28:33Yeah.
00:28:34Why is it, I guess the shared prizes thing and the downplaying, people might not necessarily realize that like women are celebrated when they have accomplishments, but they tend to not be so celebrated by themselves.
00:28:46The best example that I can think of is when in school girls used to get good grades and we would receive them in a class or whatever.
00:28:55If they got, if they'd scored really well or they were at the top of the class or immediately, oh, you know, I just got lucky.
00:29:01It wasn't me.
00:29:02So very humble in a way, but what's the just, why is that the case?
00:29:06Why would they not want to have their accomplishments self promoted at least?
00:29:11Well, given that it was so important for them to stay alive and not make enemies throughout ancestral history.
00:29:16The tall poppy syndrome of not wanting to show that you're above anyone else or that you considered yourself above the other women.
00:29:25It's a way of kind of ingratiating yourself to the other girls by saying, I'm not a threat.
00:29:29I'm one of you.
00:29:30I'll prioritize the group over myself as an individual.
00:29:34But yeah, you see it all the time.
00:29:35The first thing women do when they meet each other is tell each other how beautiful they look and then deny how beautiful they look.
00:29:42Oh, would you stop?
00:29:43No, I've gained so much weight.
00:29:45I don't.
00:29:46I look terrible.
00:29:47Not like you.
00:29:48Nothing like you.
00:29:49Even in their Instagram posts, you see it back and forth.
00:29:51And another thing is in self-disclosure.
00:29:53So when women share negative information about each other and you see this on Call Her Daddy podcast a lot, actually,
00:29:59where women are kind of encouraged to share some embarrassing story about, oh, what a whore I was in college or whatever it might be.
00:30:06And it's done to put the other girls at ease and make them feel better about themselves.
00:30:12And if you notice that in a female group, if one woman doesn't do that, declines the offer, the invitation to share something negative about herself, she will be shunned.
00:30:23That will be seen as, oh, she's too full of herself.
00:30:26She's violated the code of, oh, I've shared something negative about myself.
00:30:31Mutual self-castigation.
00:30:32Absolutely.
00:30:33Yeah.
00:30:34So it's all to make sure no one person.
00:30:36Women are actually quite groupish in that way in their coalitional psychology.
00:30:40They're kind of very consensus oriented.
00:30:42They don't like norm violators.
00:30:45And that's what you're seeing here.
00:30:47Yeah.
00:30:48It is really fascinating to think about how much this is women policing the sort of behavior and body of someone that could have been sort of standing for their cause.
00:31:00When you read off the litany of things, self-powered entrepreneur, sexuality out there, like for the boys.
00:31:08Yeah.
00:31:09Like, you know, this soft bigotry of male expectations idea that I've got, which is that there is a certain class of girl boss feminism that struggles to think about female empowerment in any other way than kind of classic high status maleness.
00:31:22That like, it's got lots to say about the breadwinner and the hunter and the CEO and surprisingly little to say about the mother and the carer and the homemaker.
00:31:30Yeah.
00:31:31Okay.
00:31:31Well, that if you were to create in a lab, the canonical sexual liberation fueled CEO type.
00:31:38That is into sports.
00:31:40It would be.
00:31:41Yeah.
00:31:42Sydney Sweeney.
00:31:43Yeah.
00:31:44There's a couple of gamma bias as well.
00:31:45When the gendered nature of something is shone a light on, you see this with, it's kind of like a hetero pessimism.
00:31:52Basically, Sydney Sweeney appeals to male sexual psychology.
00:31:56Therefore, it's problematic.
00:31:57Whereas if she appealed for her own female sexuality, that's fine.
00:32:02I'm writing a paper at the moment called the mis-measurement of men.
00:32:05And it's all about scales that seek to kind of pathologize men about sexual entitlement, sexism, or toxic masculinity.
00:32:12And so many of the items that they use to measure these attitudes in men are absurd.
00:32:18Things like if that, if a woman said them, it would be seen as fantastic and celebrate celebratory.
00:32:24So for example, I deserve to have my sexual needs gratified by my partner.
00:32:29If a woman said that, she would be applauded and seen as, oh, fighting for closing the orgasm gap.
00:32:36And yes, you get it.
00:32:38Whatever.
00:32:39Whereas if men do it, it's seen as sexual entitlement.
00:32:42So it's another example is, we were discussing benevolent sexism the other day.
00:32:47And I brought up the example of, well, women are benevolently, benevolent sexism is basically kind of infantilizing women by liking them in such a way.
00:32:58And pedestalizing them that makes them infantilized.
00:33:02So for example, taking, doing everything for them.
00:33:05So they never learn how to do anything themselves.
00:33:07That's the argument.
00:33:08Whereas you'd never reverse that argument and say, well, a woman enjoying cooking every day for her husband and doesn't let him cook.
00:33:16Is she infantilizing him?
00:33:17When he's the benefactor of her benevolent sexism, he would actually be described as weaponizing incompetence.
00:33:24Whereas you'd never, when women are weaponizing incompetence and the benefactors of men's benevolent sexism, they're the victims.
00:33:33So it's men are the morally typecast, as we know from research from Tanya Reynolds, they're always morally typecast as the aggressor or the wrongdoer.
00:33:43And you kind of see that with hetero pessimism too.
00:33:45Anything that celebrates heterosexual male sexuality is morally suspect in a way that other sexuality isn't.
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00:34:52It's an interesting turn of the last sort of three decades when you think about Freddie Youngberg.
00:35:00Do you remember that ad that he did? Was it Calvin Klein?
00:35:03Yeah.
00:35:04I'm pretty sure there were women running after the bus for him chasing him down and he was worried and he needed to get security.
00:35:09David Beckham, David Gandy.
00:35:12You know, we're talking about like classic man, men.
00:35:15David Gandy.
00:35:16Chris Williamson.
00:35:17Chris Williamson, front cover of lots of dark romance novels.
00:35:19But you know, that, the sexualization about the Diet Coke ad.
00:35:24Yeah.
00:35:25Right?
00:35:26Like is anybody asking to repeal this primitive perspective of the male form?
00:35:32Yeah.
00:35:33So one interesting thing for me is why is it the case that men, if this ad had been done by a guy, or if it was an ad for something that was female coded, because obviously we're trying to get men attracted to gambling here.
00:35:46Um, so a guy taking his kid off would probably not be very good for it unless it was like adjacent to Grindr.
00:35:51What, what would be the reaction if a man did that from men, do you think?
00:36:00And why is it so different for women pushing back against, like if a guy was built and buff and being, like the Diet Coke ad, if that rolled back again.
00:36:09Uh, so I think, you know, men just don't mind being sexualized in the way women, uh, do because it's not as scary to men.
00:36:17I know, uh, you see, maybe the Tin Men sometimes gets up in arms about the Facebook groups of hot guys, hot dudes reading.
00:36:26I think most men would be delighted to be featured there because-
00:36:29I'm desperately reading books in public all the time in an attempt to try and be-
00:36:32They'll get you eventually.
00:36:34Yeah.
00:36:35But, uh, yeah, being sexualized is not, uh, as big of a problem to men as it is for women.
00:36:41And they're much more likely to be victims of sexual violence.
00:36:44And, uh, you, you can maybe perhaps understand why.
00:36:47So I think that's why if we saw someone being sexualized to sell a product, we'd see it as aspirational.
00:36:52We'd be like, oh, I gotta get my ass in the gym.
00:36:55And, uh, I think also envy, uh, works differently for men and women.
00:36:59Men, uh, see it as kind of motivating.
00:37:01It's, uh, whereas women kind of internalize it and feel, uh, that they're being put down.
00:37:07Yeah.
00:37:08Why is it, do you think that women who are seen as guys' girls are perceived with more mistrust?
00:37:14Uh, yeah.
00:37:15So that's a specific piece of research from Sarah Hill's lab, uh, led by Hannah Bradshaw.
00:37:20And specifically when you describe a girl as being a guy's gal, having more male friends, uh, than female friends, women mistrust her.
00:37:29Cause they doubt the reasons for her doing that.
00:37:32And given all the research we know about cross-sex friendship and how often that activates mating psychology, perhaps as good reason.
00:37:39And if you think from an error management perspective, uh, your inference about someone who hangs around mostly with guys and does things that appeal to guys.
00:37:49Mm-hmm.
00:37:50She may have a psychology that's gonna prioritize their goals over women's goals.
00:37:55I'll just break down some of the DVD extra verbiage there.
00:37:59So because, um, because a lot of orbiting friendships that are of different sexes, men and women, end up evolving into some huge percentage of close friends from opposite sexes would sleep with their friend.
00:38:14And then some non-zero number turn into relationships.
00:38:18Also, there's a lot of evidence to suggest that there's backup mates on both sides, although more for women than there are for men, et cetera, et cetera.
00:38:23And also evidence that in terms of mate poaching, one of the top tactics that mate poachers use is to infiltrate the relationship through friendship.
00:38:32First befriend.
00:38:33So everyone knows like, oh, she's just a friend or he's just a friend, uh, until he's not.
00:38:37So, yeah.
00:38:38So because if you have a girl that is around a lot of friends that are guys, many of those guys, some of those guys might be in relationships, even if they're not, she has a degree of understanding about their psychology of the very least, a degree of access, right?
00:38:51Just proximity, straight up proximity is close enough to activate some of it, which again is another one of those kind of hilarious hypocrisies, which is, uh, women can work in an office and there should never be any confusion about men and women being together or whatever.
00:39:04But also at the same time, there is an implied understanding that a woman that's around lots of men is probably going to have a degree of access and maybe be hit on in a manner that makes her a sexual threat to you.
00:39:16You understand what I mean?
00:39:17Or her psychology is going to be somewhat more similar to a man's as well, which may mean that she doesn't mind short term mating.
00:39:24You'll often find that these women, these guys, gals, they sometimes derogate the mainstream women as well.
00:39:30So they say things like, oh, I've never been able to have many female friends. They're just too much drama. Not like me. I'm not drama. I'm totally drama free here.
00:39:39You can play Xbox with me and then fuck me.
00:39:41Which you can imagine for some men, that has to appeal.
00:39:44It's fucking sick, dude. It's all the advantages of being gay without having to be gay.
00:39:47It's like a covert strategy. So you do see the intrasexual competition playing out on both sides.
00:39:51Is there anything to say about the fact that Sydney Sweeney doesn't portray herself as a victim?
00:39:56Yeah, that could be part of it. Because like I say, that self-disclosure of vulnerability and shared vulnerability.
00:40:05I'm as vulnerable as you are. I understand what it means to be vulnerable.
00:40:08So I'm going to lobby for things that protect our collective interests as women.
00:40:13She doesn't do any of that really. Although I did hear she made one film about reproductive rights, about a nun.
00:40:20I think I might be fuzzy on the details, but maybe that could save her reputation among women.
00:40:25Or if she self-disclosed some embarrassing stories.
00:40:28I think what would have been interesting would have been if she'd said, if there was this big narrative arc around how I was really uncomfortable about my body for a long time.
00:40:35And it took a long time for me to get past that.
00:40:37And now that I have transcended what previously held me back, I am emancipated.
00:40:44I am emancipated.
00:40:45I am finally liberated and free to be able to use my sexuality in a way that I couldn't do previously.
00:40:50Which sort of plays to you also small mousy woman that wears brown and gray that doesn't seem to be seen by the world.
00:40:59Like you too may flourish and blossom into this wonderful big titty lady in future that gets paid millions of dollars.
00:41:05Yeah. And I think she has come out with some of that stuff.
00:41:07Like I have seen some interviews of her saying she hates being sexualized sometimes, but that's clearly, clearly not that much.
00:41:15I mean, you really become like Stockholm syndrome for yourself if that's the case.
00:41:20But she's more often come out with media stories like thanking her mom for convincing her to not get a boob reduction and things like that.
00:41:27So that sends the opposite signal to women.
00:41:30It's like, oh, I'm so glad I have these massive tits that I can cash in on.
00:41:35Look at these scud missiles here, ladies and gentlemen.
00:41:37Yeah. So it's like a brazen, proud of something that women know appeal.
00:41:42And also boobs specifically.
00:41:45Let's talk about boobs.
00:41:46Tell me about boobs.
00:41:47Sure. Well, we can talk about boobs.
00:41:48It makes a change from talking about incels.
00:41:50So with boobs, like I always say to my wife, it's kind of like penises.
00:41:55It's not like the bigger is always the better.
00:41:57And, you know, she's come to accept that that's true.
00:42:01So that's good.
00:42:02But it really is the case with boobs research, very mixed evidence for the size that's deemed optimal.
00:42:09But what's more consistent is the shape and the texture.
00:42:14It's called the tossity, the ptosis of the breast.
00:42:18So that describes basically the sagging.
00:42:20And like in all elements of mate preferences and evolutionary psychology, the male preferences for beauty, it's all about reproductive value.
00:42:28So as women age and as they go through each pregnancy, their boobs kind of change in texture, they sag, they head down south.
00:42:37So it's more about the firmness rather than the size per se.
00:42:42But we do know that short term mating oriented men are.
00:42:47And the reason why that is basically the nobility hypothesis that basically you're looking for high reproductive value woman who hasn't long reproductive career ahead of her and hasn't had children yet already.
00:42:59So that's Frank Marlowe that came up with that nobility hypothesis.
00:43:04And that seems to be the consistent finding about boobs is that the texture and the ptosis rather than size per se.
00:43:11But short term mating oriented men prioritize big boobs.
00:43:15So that could be another part of the puzzle that's putting women off.
00:43:19We do know that women derogate big boobed women as well, a lot more than small boobed women, because it's probably queuing to them that this person is themselves a short term mater, even though there's no evidence that they may be themselves.
00:43:34Women perceive them that way.
00:43:36And even if they aren't short term mating oriented themselves, they know that men will perceive them as short term mating oriented.
00:43:43Induce the short term mating strategy in the men around them.
00:43:47Exactly.
00:43:48It's kind of interesting.
00:43:49So I posted this research a little while ago that basically in a study of about 300, 400 Norwegian men, there was a bodily focused group that was both boobs and ass.
00:44:02There was a ass only, but there was no boobs only men.
00:44:06There was none.
00:44:07It was like you're either focused on both just the ass or not the boobs.
00:44:11I don't know.
00:44:13Yeah.
00:44:14That surprised me too.
00:44:15Law of large numbers.
00:44:16If you have enough men.
00:44:17But at the very least, it indicates that maybe in the current cultural climate, the ass is being prioritized more.
00:44:21Interesting about the ass.
00:44:22Let me tell you about the ass.
00:44:23Okay.
00:44:24What's interesting about the ass is that it is much easier to hide than boobs for women.
00:44:28It's also in the back.
00:44:30So as you walk towards somebody, as you're talking to them, it's not front and center.
00:44:33It's also not at eye level.
00:44:35And I wonder whether that is, even if guys on average, maybe this is across all of time.
00:44:40Let's say that that research would replicate throughout all of human history for all men, heterosexual men, that they were interested in the ass over the tits.
00:44:48But even if that is the case, it's so much more front and center.
00:44:54You're like compensating for how much you might not be as much of a fan of it by just the shelf height.
00:45:00You know what I mean?
00:45:01Like what is it?
00:45:02Eye level is by level, as they say in CPG and retail.
00:45:06Okay.
00:45:06Well, eye level is guy level for this one, I suppose.
00:45:09Yeah.
00:45:10And it kind of gives the impression you're emphasizing it and rubbing in their nose a little bit more.
00:45:15They should be so lucky.
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00:46:08Is there anything to say about the support for the Lindsay Clancy case in comparison with what's going on with Sidney Sweeney?
00:46:22So, kind of pretty bleak, but the way I heard it described was, what was it?
00:46:28Oh, your boos mean nothing.
00:46:30I've seen what makes you applaud.
00:46:32Yeah.
00:46:33And that's to describe that a lot of women were sympathetic or even, you know, towards Lindsay Clancy.
00:46:41What do you think would have happened if it was this?
00:46:43If Lindsay Clancy looked like Sidney Sweeney, would women still have rallied around it?
00:46:47What do you reckon?
00:46:48I mean, it's a pretty well-known fact that juries are pretty biased around their in-groups and the OJ Simpson…
00:46:55So, you're saying if the jury was filled with, like, big titty blondes, they would have been like, "She's free! Let her go!"
00:47:01Not so much, but it's a pretty well-known fact that in the OJ Simpson trial, that because Nicole Simpson was a white, blonde woman who was perceived as having stolen a really resource-rich, successful black man in OJ Simpson,
00:47:17the majority black female jury hated that.
00:47:21And they just could not get any sympathy for her as a victim at all.
00:47:24So, it's actually a big problem in juries that they're so tribal based on their own kind of in-group.
00:47:31So, Lindsay Clancy may not have been threatening enough to them in terms of their mating psychology and, you know, supporting her and giving group sympathy towards her issue was in women's self-interest more than it is to celebrate Sidney Sweeney appealing to the male gaze.
00:47:52Have you seen any men pushing back against Sidney Sweeney?
00:47:55Only the Irish radio presenter, yeah.
00:47:58Right, okay.
00:47:59Yeah, which is kind of naturally a bit more posturing.
00:48:01Look at me, I'm for you.
00:48:03Going back to boobs, I wonder whether the unearned traits element of this is part of the reason.
00:48:11So, I'm kind of fascinated about why men don't hate desirable men in the same way.
00:48:16If you were to do an ad that was the equivalent for men, that guy would not have a body that was an unearned trait.
00:48:24Right, like just an inherent advantage that he was gifted, basically.
00:48:28I'm sure that Sidney Sweeney goes to the gym and has a trainer and probably follows a diet and doesn't overeat and all the rest of this stuff.
00:48:34But she's not got a body that at least obviously is shaped by tons and tons of work.
00:48:39Yeah.
00:48:40Right, at least not in the same way that a man's body would be.
00:48:42Whereas a man's body, you would say, oh, but he's really had to sort of grind for that.
00:48:46And one of the really interesting takeaways, I think you sent me this tweet that was explaining how ruthlessly reminiscent it is, especially to women in a way that it isn't to men for male attractiveness.
00:48:57That when you see a woman that is beautiful, especially with big boobs, like that's just straight up natural boobs, straight up natural genetic endowment.
00:49:05And the effortlessness with which Sidney Sweeney sort of presents herself, whether that's true or not, the effortlessness that she presents herself with almost sort of rubs it in the face of women more.
00:49:18And I think this is one of the differences between Sidney Sweeney and Sabrina Carpenter.
00:49:21Sabrina Carpenter is a woman designed for the female and the gay gaze.
00:49:25Like gay men love Sabrina Carpenter.
00:49:28Yeah.
00:49:29It's this over the top, like princess, like there's lots of makeup.
00:49:32She's always did.
00:49:33I actually think that this is one of the reasons that if you watch a female chatty, chatty podcast, a lot of the time, they won't be fully done up.
00:49:42It'll be super slouchy, oversized hoodie.
00:49:45Look at me.
00:49:46Relatable.
00:49:47This is me at my worst.
00:49:48Yeah.
00:49:49But if you at your worst is Sidney Sweeney in her effortlessness present presentation of this, what you're basically reminding a shit ton of women of is.
00:49:57I am more desirable than you without having to work for it.
00:50:02Yeah.
00:50:03This is how unfair the genetic spread is.
00:50:06Yeah.
00:50:07And women with big boobs specifically talk about this all the time.
00:50:10Other women accused them of.
00:50:12Big boobs women in the comments.
00:50:13We want to hear from you.
00:50:14We're your team.
00:50:15Yeah.
00:50:16Of sticking them out.
00:50:17They like accused them of, oh, look, why is she showing them off so much?
00:50:20And they're just trying to live their life.
00:50:22Like, you know, it's like, but the sex difference is interesting because men's attractiveness on most metrics is attainable.
00:50:28Like you say, uh, but also, uh, men really formidable, uh, high mate value, physical attractiveness men.
00:50:36And that's the physical attractiveness men.
00:50:38And that's the physical attractiveness for men is formidability, muscularity, height.
00:50:41That makes you a valuable coalitional ally to men for other reasons.
00:50:45Yeah.
00:50:46Useful as well.
00:50:47So yeah.
00:50:48What the fuck use of women got for Sidney Sweeney?
00:50:49Really beautiful woman.
00:50:50She's just going to take all the men.
00:50:51Yeah.
00:50:52Or men are only going to be interested in it.
00:50:53Yeah.
00:50:54Whereas for men, it's like that really formidable guy.
00:50:56He could help me going to war.
00:50:57We really need him.
00:50:58Yes.
00:50:59So that explains some of the sex difference, but unfortunately height isn't a, uh, a sexy
00:51:05trait you can cultivate.
00:51:06Well, no, the looks maxers are doing their best to fast track the surgery on that front.
00:51:10That's true.
00:51:11I mean, this is a very, uh, how would you say unpopular to say?
00:51:15So I'm going to have to put my disguise on for it.
00:51:18I would say it is significantly easier for a man to raise his physical attractiveness
00:51:23value than it is for a woman.
00:51:24Yeah.
00:51:25If you go to the gym, what's the evidence of how much it improves your attractiveness?
00:51:28It's like significant.
00:51:30There's basically no guy that isn't made more attractive to women on average, most women,
00:51:36by going to the gym.
00:51:37Yeah.
00:51:38And that's true throughout most of your life as well.
00:51:40It's a longer span of your reproductive value.
00:51:43Whereas women's beauty is on a much more tight time clock.
00:51:48So it's harder to fight against.
00:51:49Yes.
00:51:50So there's nothing you can do.
00:51:51Time is coming.
00:51:52The wall is undefeated as the incels say.
00:51:54That is true to some extent, uh, in a way that it's not for men.
00:51:58So that envy must feel more uncomfortable for women who's, I mean, now it's pretty evolutionary
00:52:05novel, the extent to which women can extend their beauty.
00:52:08Uh, but for most of ancestral history, it would have been seeing youthful, beautiful women,
00:52:13would have triggered serious anxiety about your own mate value running out.
00:52:17Whereas if you're a guy in his forties, who's never trained before a couple of years of hard
00:52:22dieting and a good trip to the gym, and you've got a body that's comparable with a guy that
00:52:26might be in an advert, you just got to be sufficiently disciplined with it.
00:52:29Uh, so yeah, I think that's, that's tough.
00:52:31Like, you know, that deserves sympathy and like a degree of understanding where you're like,
00:52:35fuck, like, of course you're going to be threatened by women.
00:52:39And I would love to see the age split.
00:52:44Is it more threatening to a woman who is a little older than Sydney Sweeney?
00:52:49Or is it the sort of narcissism or the rivalry of small differences in terms of age?
00:52:54I would imagine not so many women younger than Sydney Sweeney would have as much of a problem
00:53:01at the same rate as women around her age or older.
00:53:04Do you reckon?
00:53:05I reckon you could even predict the nature of the derogations.
00:53:08I would predict, uh, that younger women would derogate things like her promiscuity a little
00:53:14bit more.
00:53:15Uh, whereas older women, when they're, their mate value runs out, their value to a group
00:53:20diminishes.
00:53:21It diminishes, but it becomes the wise grandmother, the kind of the wisdom.
00:53:25So they would start derogating her.
00:53:27She's a bimbo.
00:53:28What does she know about anything?
00:53:30Uh, so I have new type of value to the group now.
00:53:34Yeah.
00:53:35So I have to emphasize that, uh, rather than I'm never going to compete with Sydney Sweeney
00:53:39on youth and beauty.
00:53:40Right.
00:53:41That those days are gone, but I might actually derogate her, you know.
00:53:44Yeah.
00:53:45On wisdom.
00:53:46Yeah.
00:53:47This is the maiden mother matriarch arc that, uh, Louise Perry talks about.
00:53:50Yeah.
00:53:51Okay.
00:53:52So the maiden side will look at, and also the mother side as well.
00:53:55Like the middle, the middle of the chunk we'll be looking at.
00:53:57Okay.
00:53:58Fecundity, loyalty, reliability, et cetera.
00:54:00But yeah, that's interesting.
00:54:01The sort of matriarch side might have to use something else.
00:54:04Oh, she's an idiot.
00:54:05She's setting women back.
00:54:06She's doing something.
00:54:07Yeah.
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00:55:07The unearned traits thing is still pretty fascinating to me.
00:55:11And thinking about how men would feel very differently about a guy that did that.
00:55:18And also I think women would too, because look, at least you've worked for it in one form or another.
00:55:24But I keep on coming back to like, if a guy or a female athlete had done that, that wasn't, that was basically Sydney Sweeney,
00:55:33not saying that I'm doing this for the girls, don't really care about them, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
00:55:37I think you would get still much of the pushback, even if she'd had abs, right?
00:55:42Even if it had been like hot Megan Rapinoe or something, I think she would have still got a lot of the pushback.
00:55:48Yeah.
00:55:49Perhaps.
00:55:50It's hard to know.
00:55:51What is there to say about sort of the focus?
00:55:53Because for me, one of the obvious misses was this is a brand new fucking sports betting company.
00:56:01It's that prediction market sports betting, I think, right?
00:56:04So it's like Kalshi, but for sports.
00:56:06Yeah.
00:56:06By the way, sorry, I got to fucking pull this up.
00:56:08I was listening to, I haven't listened to the Daily Wire in forever.
00:56:11And I was listening to Matt Walsh and Shapiro and Michael Knowles and Andrew Klavan this morning.
00:56:15They're partnered with Kalshi.
00:56:17Oh, never knew that.
00:56:19Sorry.
00:56:20Are we not against the degeneration of the modern youth and stuff?
00:56:25Like is this not-
00:56:26Very corrosive practice for young men and society in general.
00:56:29It's the only other two would have been weed and porn.
00:56:33Yeah.
00:56:34And you're certainly not going to promote, you're going to implicitly say that both of those things are fucking destructive.
00:56:38Things are upside down, Chris.
00:56:39We've got the woke progressives being puritanical and sex negative.
00:56:44And we've got the right wing, you know, conservatives being, you know, degenerate.
00:56:48Motherfucking Matt Walsh doing a Kalshi ad.
00:56:50Yeah.
00:56:51And that blew my mind this morning.
00:56:53And that's the real story or should be the real story of this Sydney Sweeney thing is she's promoting gambling probably very successfully given how, you know, sex sells and how much attention is going to be garnered on the back of this engineered backlash.
00:57:09Um, but yes, sports betting, I mean, the American Institute for boys and men have reports on how corrosive this is to young men.
00:57:17They've done some really cool research that shows, uh, predictable effects.
00:57:21When you legalize, uh, online gambling in a specific area, bankruptcy among young men goes way up and they go into way more debt, which is partially attributable to the change in law.
00:57:33Like they've isolated that effect, which is really cool research.
00:57:36And, uh, my wife was telling me some really kind of sobering statistics this morning about men who have problems with gambling.
00:57:44It's detrimental to their relationships, which has downstream effects on their, uh, suicidality and it's detrimental to their mental health and suicidality in and of itself as well.
00:57:55I think something like 30% of people who have a gambling problem of men, young men who have gambling problems, uh, have felt suicidal.
00:58:03Uh, and I think something like 13% have attempted suicide because of this.
00:58:09So it's a huge.
00:58:10And if you think about it from an evolutionary psychology point of view, the addiction to young, from young men towards gambling makes sense.
00:58:18It's that, uh, try and win big in one fell swoop when I've got not much else, uh, to lose, uh, in an attempt to garner enough resources to up your mate value.
00:58:28So it's like, uh, they're the exact vulnerable group.
00:58:33And that should be the real story about this.
00:58:35But people care more about harms to women or perceived terms to women in all sorts of domains, uh, in life.
00:58:42And this is just another example.
00:58:43I did a tweet one time cause some people don't agree with me on that.
00:58:46They don't think that men and society in general are quite protective of women, even though there's a preponderance of evidence for this.
00:58:53I mean, Tanya wrote this article, uh, reviewing all the different ways in which this manifests.
00:58:58But I just asked the question and my following on X, a lot of incels, a lot of misogynist men, a lot of red pill kind of oriented guys.
00:59:07And I, I put up a poll, all things being equal, is it worse to kill a teenage girl or a teenage boy?
00:59:14And unanimously people said it was way worse to kill the girl.
00:59:19And you know, what, what can explain that unless we're, uh, actually a lot more sensitive to harms towards women.
00:59:26I think that that's obvious.
00:59:27It's seen even, uh, in a group who's mistreating women and treat women as property.
00:59:33It's seen as a great moral injury to that group.
00:59:36If you harm one of their women versus if you harm one of their men.
00:59:40Yeah.
00:59:41And it just, uh, I think this is a clear example of it that people couldn't see, oh, the young men as the real victims in this scenario.
00:59:49The, the victims that are getting the limelight is all women's sport has been, you know, not the men that are being 40 years.
00:59:56Yeah.
00:59:57Not, not the men that have now got another predatory fissure trying to break into their brainstem.
01:00:02Yeah.
01:00:03So that they can pull, they can try and extract value and cash from them.
01:00:06But this could have been, if you wanted to push back against Sydney Sweeney.
01:00:09And this is why women are so much more sophisticated socially.
01:00:13Like the fucking scalpel with which they're able to navigate.
01:00:17I thank the Lord every single day that I am not a woman and I don't have to deal with it.
01:00:21And I know that the same is true for like lots of women that are in workplace environment navigating that.
01:00:25Teachers are surrounded by the women.
01:00:27Oh my God.
01:00:28It's like so complex and burdensome for me to navigate all of it.
01:00:30Introsexual dynamics and stuff like that.
01:00:33That being said, there is a limit to their sophistication.
01:00:35And the limit to their sophistication is if they'd really, really, really wanted to do collective action with this.
01:00:40Yeah.
01:00:41They could have got at Sydney by going for the unimpeachably perfect argument of this is predatory against men.
01:00:47Yeah.
01:00:48This is trying to take advantage of young men.
01:00:51It's hurting them.
01:00:52Gambling is fucking poison.
01:00:54And we should not have calci and polymorph.
01:00:57By the way, for all of the things that I get accused of on the internet, we have been approached by every fucking prediction market on the planet over and over again.
01:01:05And I have turned every single one of them down.
01:01:06Fair play.
01:01:07Right.
01:01:08Like, and that's a stance that I've taken.
01:01:09Even I don't have a gambling bone in my body.
01:01:12I suck at Vegas.
01:01:13I'm not that excited.
01:01:14I'd way rather go and see a show.
01:01:15I haven't got gambling in my family, but I did see what it did to people around me growing up northeast of the UK.
01:01:19People don't understand that in England, there are betting shops on every single high street in every single shithouse village.
01:01:26Norton, right, which is the cricket club I played for, the guys would finish up playing the game and go and use the fruit machine in the pub afterwards.
01:01:32That's 25 pounds.
01:01:33And now it's an app in your phone as well.
01:01:35That's available 24 hours a day.
01:01:37That could have been the angle.
01:01:38The headline of all of this could have been Sydney Sweeney uses her body to capitalize on men, hurts men, increases suicidality, reduces their financial freedom.
01:01:50I thought that everybody was up in arms about the cost of living crisis.
01:01:53I thought everyone cared about financially uplifting the underclass.
01:01:56I bet that if you look at the people that are mostly using online gambling, it's going to skew toward the lower socioeconomic classes as well.
01:02:03It's not going to be the upper class and the middle class.
01:02:06Fast life history strategy, people trying to make a big win.
01:02:09Quick buck, yeah.
01:02:10This is how I'm getting, it's Robin Hood for 2026.
01:02:12Yeah, right.
01:02:13Yeah.
01:02:14I totally agree, but it just comes back to this idea that women are a more, a better victim in terms of the media.
01:02:20They make for a better storage.
01:02:21People care more about their concerns.
01:02:24I would just push back on the thing you said about, oh, I'm so glad I'm not a woman because they're so hard to navigate.
01:02:30And it might seem like that with our male brains.
01:02:33Oh, but if I got the social navigation upgrade installed in my brain because I'm a woman, my arms race would have been sort of appropriately difficult.
01:02:43That point.
01:02:44But also think of the modern world and the social arenas you have to navigate.
01:02:50It actually kind of rewards the female style of aggression way more than the male style.
01:02:56Like think of a corporate environment, you can't be directly aggressive and men, oh, we'll settle this in the car park or even just, you know, raising your voice.
01:03:05Men are neutered in terms of how they show aggression.
01:03:09And whereas there's almost no policing on women's gossiping or, you know, false accusations, things like that.
01:03:17So, you know, they're actually rewarded for their style.
01:03:21Do you want to know my new conspiracy theory?
01:03:24Oh.
01:03:25My big new conspiracy theory.
01:03:26Sydney Sweeney keeps being used as a distraction from geopolitically inconvenient news drops.
01:03:30July 2025, DOJ released a memo stating that there were no significant findings in the Epstein files.
01:03:35The one big beautiful bill is signed into law, stripping over $1 trillion in benefits from US citizens.
01:03:41While raising the debt ceiling by $5 trillion, Sydney Sweeney's American Eagle Act drops, capturing national attention, right?
01:03:47That's July 2025.
01:03:49September 2026, the UN cites concerns over US war crimes in Iran.
01:03:53AI CEOs agree to slow down development after former employees warm up a doomsday.
01:03:58Trump refuses to slow progress, citing competition with China.
01:04:01The midterms are right around the corner.
01:04:02Sydney Sweeney appears in a Novig ad.
01:04:04Yeah, never waste a good crisis.
01:04:06Bury some other bad news.
01:04:08Bury the headline below two bigger headlines.
01:04:10You can just imagine them in their crisis room.
01:04:12It's like things are getting, we're getting a lot of heat.
01:04:14Break out the tips.
01:04:15Sydney, we need to hit break glass in case of geopolitical emergency.
01:04:18It's just Sydney Sweeney's phone number.
01:04:19Literally.
01:04:20Yeah.
01:04:21Yeah.
01:04:22Dude, I think it's fascinating.
01:04:23It's interesting to consider how many more times like both sides of someone's mouth or
01:04:30group's mouths can be spoken out of.
01:04:33Is, in your experience, is like highlighting hypocrisy a good way to educate people?
01:04:38Because I think what, again, to steel man the critique side or the criticizer side, it's,
01:04:43hey, look, we're okay with you having a position as long as the positions seem to sort of run
01:04:51in parallel and be...
01:04:53Consistency.
01:04:54Yeah.
01:04:55Yeah.
01:04:56We want you to be consistent across your views.
01:04:58And because you're not, we just want one of these things to be stopped.
01:05:02Either sexual revolution, liberation, women can use their body thing.
01:05:06Like that and this can't exist at the same time.
01:05:09Right?
01:05:10Square the circle for me and become consistent.
01:05:12Like hypocrisy is catnip for the internet.
01:05:14In your experience, is hypocrisy identification a useful tool of behavior change?
01:05:22I mean, using just my own self, it works on me.
01:05:25If someone points out a way in which I'm being hypocritical, I find that persuasive.
01:05:30Perhaps it's not.
01:05:31It might trigger tribal psychology too much and just signal that someone's the enemy.
01:05:37Yeah.
01:05:38So I don't know.
01:05:39I don't think so.
01:05:40But I think it's worth highlighting anyway, because some of the examples are so fragrant
01:05:46and it's, you know, so worth highlighting, I think.
01:05:49Just to get back to that idea on which sex has it worse.
01:05:53In lots of domains, it feels like the modern culture war is just a race to the bottom on
01:05:59people trying to fucking outdo each other on saying, oh, men have it worse in this domain.
01:06:04The victimhood Olympics.
01:06:05And the evolutionary psychological approach is always very domain specific.
01:06:10So back to this paper, I was writing on mis-measurement of men.
01:06:13Some of the statements in there are just way too global.
01:06:16It's like, men are superior to women or, you know, all these things that are massive global
01:06:22statements.
01:06:23And the more appropriate level of analysis is find the domains or the specific context in
01:06:28which each sex has it bad or good.
01:06:30And there are different ones for men and women.
01:06:32And, uh, it's not just one has it worse or better than the other.
01:06:36Bingo.
01:06:37My chick says this all the time that there's times where her sex has been a massive advantage
01:06:41and then there's times where it's held her back.
01:06:42Yeah.
01:06:43Okay.
01:06:44Well, in that case, sweeping fucking statements don't really work, but there are some laws
01:06:49that seem to kind of be hold pretty true.
01:06:51Like gamma bias.
01:06:52Right.
01:06:53Men are, uh, the sex of men is ignored when they do positive, but highlighted when they
01:06:58do negative.
01:06:59And the sex of women is ignored when they do negative and highlighted when they do positive.
01:07:02Like that seems to hold as a relatively broad perspective across headlines.
01:07:07What the fucking Carnegie award, like 95% of that it's people who risk their own life selflessly
01:07:14to help a stranger.
01:07:15Yeah.
01:07:16It's like 95, 96% of people that do that.
01:07:18It's like stranger saves drowning man.
01:07:20What a benevolent sexist.
01:07:21Yeah.
01:07:22I know.
01:07:23Fucking horrible.
01:07:24Dude, you're the best.
01:07:25I appreciate you.
01:07:26I'm glad for breaking this down.
01:07:27Where should people go?
01:07:28Check out all of you.
01:07:29Uh, X is where I'm hanging out.
01:07:30Uh, on your recommendation, I've given up the blue sky.
01:07:32I don't go there anymore.
01:07:33Uh, it's not for you, sir.
01:07:35It's not built for you.
01:07:36Yeah.
01:07:37So yeah.
01:07:38Follow me on X and articulate myself probably a lot better than here.
01:07:41And, uh, yeah.
01:07:42Check me out there.
01:07:43You're the best.
01:07:44Appreciate you, man.
01:07:45All right.
01:07:46Goodbye, my beauties.
01:07:47Dude.
01:07:48Yes.
01:07:49Fucking money.
01:07:50Congratulations.
01:07:51You made it to the end of a podcast episode without dying.
01:07:53Now, here's another one.
01:07:55Go on.
01:07:56Watch it.
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