00:00:00- I'm cosplaying as you, what do you think?
00:00:02How do you rank mine?
00:00:03- I would wear it.
00:00:04- Nailed it.
00:00:06- And I was flattered 'cause we don't really know each other,
00:00:08but you said like, are you going to wear a nice jumper?
00:00:10And I'm like, that's kind of my thing.
00:00:12- Yeah, of course it is.
00:00:13You seem like a very cozy guy.
00:00:16If I could describe you in a single word,
00:00:18based on five minutes of interaction,
00:00:21watching some stuff on the internet, it would be cozy.
00:00:24- I like to wear things that I could sleep in,
00:00:27but I also know that sometimes if you show up someplace
00:00:29wearing something that,
00:00:30sometimes you wear something someplace
00:00:32and people feel offended based on what you're wearing.
00:00:35And it's like, okay.
00:00:36So let me just find some really cool clothes
00:00:39that I could trick you into thinking is,
00:00:41oh, look it, I could wear this to the big dance,
00:00:43but also I could go home and sleep in it.
00:00:45- No, I optimize for comfort as well.
00:00:47Mine leans a little bit too sportsweary,
00:00:50which there's not really much that you can do
00:00:53to kind of elevate sport.
00:00:54If you're going out for a dinner or whatever,
00:00:55and you're in like a Lululemon fucking t-shirt or something,
00:00:59you're a little bit-
00:01:00- When you wear sports clothes,
00:01:01you're not wearing something to elevate the clothes,
00:01:04you're wearing clothes to elevate the body
00:01:06and you have a body for it.
00:01:07I've been saying it for weeks,
00:01:08but you have a body that shows the veins, so.
00:01:12- Well, this, I could get away with this.
00:01:13I feel like it's like a cup of cocoa, like both hands,
00:01:18holding it with both hands.
00:01:19It's very important.
00:01:20- Another way I think of that is like,
00:01:21if this were a rom-com in the early 2000s
00:01:24and you would be a beautiful woman
00:01:26and you would be wearing that,
00:01:27but you would be, it would be like this.
00:01:30Yeah, and I would think you were ugly as shit
00:01:32until you took your glasses off.
00:01:33- And I'd have my glasses down here.
00:01:34- Oh, you're ugly.
00:01:35- The hair's up in a bun and I'd like pull them like this
00:01:38and go.
00:01:38- Oh, yeah, then you get a, can I say boner?
00:01:41- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:01:42- Yeah, then you get a boner, then you get a boner.
00:01:43- Uh-huh.
00:01:44I heard you talk about like random erectile dysfunction
00:01:48and the subsequent fallout, the negotiation.
00:01:53- Where did you hear me talk about this?
00:01:56- You were a freestyle rat, someone who was like on your show.
00:01:58- Yeah, with Costa Contra.
00:01:59- Yeah, and you were trying to explain to four surly black men
00:02:04who I didn't think would be that forgiving of a conversation
00:02:10around like rapid erectile, R-E-D,
00:02:13rapid erectile dysfunction.
00:02:15But they seemed to be like, yeah, man, been there.
00:02:18- Yeah.
00:02:19- Or whatever.
00:02:20- Well, they didn't say they had been there.
00:02:21They said they hadn't and I don't believe them,
00:02:24but they were accepting of it.
00:02:26One of them grew up watching "The Simpsons."
00:02:28I'm not joking, we talked about it.
00:02:29- He was the one that you resonated with the most.
00:02:31- I was like, this guy goes soft a lot.
00:02:33- Will you be getting into a relationship with me
00:02:34at some point in future?
00:02:35That'd be good.
00:02:36- The conversation was based around it.
00:02:37I don't want to get, I mean, we can,
00:02:38but this is how we're opening it.
00:02:39But based on comfort, I'm very sensitive to smells
00:02:43and textures and sounds.
00:02:45And like, it's not just a look thing.
00:02:49It's really like, the best I could explain it is like,
00:02:52people that wear contacts, even if it's not hurting you,
00:02:54you know they're there.
00:02:55It's hard to be present if you're feeling things.
00:02:58And when you make love or even have sex with a condom,
00:03:03it's like I'm having sex with contacts.
00:03:10So I'm just aware, I'm aware they're there.
00:03:12You know what I'm saying?
00:03:13I'm blinking a lot and that's why I've learned.
00:03:16And I think this is a good practice indirectly
00:03:19to never be like that physically intimate with somebody
00:03:23who you don't feel safe explaining to them,
00:03:26hey, I'm not present with you right now.
00:03:29You know what I mean?
00:03:30Maybe we can make out for a little bit
00:03:33or we could, why don't we go get tested
00:03:35so we don't have to wear these.
00:03:36And I feel that way in friendships as well as a metaphor.
00:03:38- What's the equivalent in a friendship?
00:03:40- I like to bust balls.
00:03:43I like when people fight.
00:03:45I like playful banter and repartee.
00:03:49I don't pick up very well
00:03:50on when other people don't like it.
00:03:53And what I have found is,
00:03:54and I don't think this is exclusive to relationships with me.
00:03:57I just think when people, anything,
00:04:00but I'll say play for this example,
00:04:01it's a lot easier to just go with the flow
00:04:05and just drain your battery a little bit
00:04:07than it is to say, hey, I think you're joking.
00:04:09I'm not sure, I don't like playing this way.
00:04:12Could you explain your intention
00:04:13or even if I know your intention?
00:04:15I don't know, it's something about it
00:04:16when you comment on this or that.
00:04:19As much as I don't take it as my responsibility
00:04:24to make sure other people feel safe,
00:04:27they could set their own boundaries.
00:04:29I also recognize that some people don't feel comfortable
00:04:32setting their boundaries, at least not yet.
00:04:34So I guess in that analogy of having sex with somebody
00:04:37before you guys feel safe saying who you are
00:04:40and what makes you feel good.
00:04:42So in bits, I get stoned.
00:04:45I love weed and when I am high, I'm in bit mode
00:04:49and I'm hilarious or extremely annoying.
00:04:54And I don't know, so I'll go into groups of people
00:04:56and be like, hey, like, are we doing bits?
00:04:58Can I, 'cause if not, I'll get out of here.
00:05:00Because people won't say and they'll roll their eyes
00:05:03and then like later you find out you were annoying people.
00:05:06So I just think it's important to, yeah,
00:05:10I guess in friendships, be able to have friendships
00:05:13where you don't have to wear a condom.
00:05:15You know what I mean?
00:05:16- What a wonderful way to summarize it.
00:05:17I know exactly what you mean.
00:05:19I would have guessed, given what I know about you,
00:05:22somewhat obsessive with the OCD, with the paying attention,
00:05:29with the vigilance stuff, with the,
00:05:32I'm sort of aware of my surroundings, what I feel,
00:05:36what I hear.
00:05:37- You just really rainmanned me there.
00:05:38- Yeah, I know, yeah.
00:05:40- More water.
00:05:41- I would have guessed that that would have graduated
00:05:45or evolved into some sort of codependency.
00:05:48If you're not okay, I'm not okay.
00:05:51If I say something that makes you upset,
00:05:52like I'm permanently not doing the bits,
00:05:54I'm scared of doing the bits because if the bit makes you,
00:05:56oh, did they respond slightly badly to that one?
00:05:58I might've hurt their feelings.
00:06:00I would have imagined that that blast radius of some stuff
00:06:04that you pay attention to would have expanded out into,
00:06:07I'm in a group and I'm steaming in,
00:06:11maybe not if you're high, I guess.
00:06:12You've probably walled that off somewhat,
00:06:14your ability to pay attention.
00:06:15But yeah, I would have thought that you would have been,
00:06:18you would have had that trait too,
00:06:19that you would have been over concerned.
00:06:21- I understand the trait you're talking about.
00:06:23I just don't understand where the, why?
00:06:28- Well, if you are hypersensitive to the clothes
00:06:32that you're wearing, the sensations there,
00:06:34it's obvious that your sensitivity is maybe a little higher
00:06:38than other people's might be.
00:06:39- Oh, I understand.
00:06:40Yeah, so this is not a trait that I'm proud of.
00:06:45It's a trait that I'm aware of and I've been working on,
00:06:48but the sensitivity is about my comfort
00:06:51and I'm very sensitive.
00:06:53Not like I'm in tuned with the universe.
00:06:58It's more about self.
00:07:01And like if I'm, like it was for a long time, it still is.
00:07:08What I'm about to explain still exists in my mind
00:07:11emotionally, but logically, I know it's not the case
00:07:13and I could parent myself with it.
00:07:14But for a very long time, I wasn't aware of this,
00:07:18which is whatever I was thinking or feeling,
00:07:21I didn't assume necessarily it's right or wrong.
00:07:24I just assumed this is what you're thinking and feeling.
00:07:27I knew what you were thinking and I was wrong.
00:07:29I didn't think I knew what you were thinking.
00:07:31Like I knew it.
00:07:32Oh, everybody's uncomfortable.
00:07:34I better do some type of a joke, you know,
00:07:36or everybody is this.
00:07:38And what I realized is I have no idea
00:07:40what other people are thinking.
00:07:41I have no idea how they're feeling.
00:07:43And I still don't believe that a lot of people
00:07:45are even very in touch with what they're thinking
00:07:47or feeling.
00:07:48So the idea of me being like,
00:07:52oh, maybe I'm doing something to this person.
00:07:54The only way I'll feel that way is if I,
00:07:56like right now I feel, oh, I'm talking too much.
00:07:58It is what it is.
00:07:59Feel free and interrupt.
00:08:00These are podcasts.
00:08:01But like, so now I'm thinking, oh, maybe I should be quiet.
00:08:03I'm not thinking that you think I'm anything.
00:08:06I'm just like, yeah, I don't know.
00:08:10I just, that's why I don't like wearing condoms.
00:08:12I want to be with people who just say, Rick, be quiet.
00:08:15You know, Rick, I don't like this anymore.
00:08:16Or Rick, do more.
00:08:18- Oh, that's interesting.
00:08:19So you look forward to boundaries being set in that way.
00:08:22You're a pro boundary person on the other side.
00:08:25How are you with your own boundaries?
00:08:27- Great.
00:08:27- Okay, that's great.
00:08:28- Earlier we were,
00:08:29Dean wanted to move my keys and my hat.
00:08:31- Because of you or me?
00:08:32- What's that?
00:08:33- Because of you or because of me?
00:08:34Is it moving for that reason or for the other reason?
00:08:36- Yes, if it was for me, it'd be like, I'm okay.
00:08:38If it's not, it's like, okay,
00:08:39but I still don't want them out of sight.
00:08:41That's why I put them over here.
00:08:43I also, I've always been that way.
00:08:46And it wasn't until I was an adult
00:08:48that I realized that not everybody likes to say that.
00:08:51A lot, some people will just, hey, could I have,
00:08:54there's a friend that I have, I grew up with.
00:08:57And I saw him again this summer.
00:08:59And I talked to him about it.
00:09:01I used to sleep at his house a lot.
00:09:03And he had all this cool stuff.
00:09:06Like these little toys,
00:09:07nothing like expensive that I can imagine.
00:09:10Just like random little things.
00:09:12No, this is a cool bottle.
00:09:13Can I have this?
00:09:14I would ask him if I can have it.
00:09:15And he always said yes.
00:09:17And I didn't even remember,
00:09:19I never really thought about it.
00:09:20There's probably 10 different things I took from his house.
00:09:22And I saw him this past summer.
00:09:25And I remembered that like,
00:09:26dude, I used to take stuff from your house all the time.
00:09:27He goes, yeah, it was okay.
00:09:30Like I like, he didn't want me to take his stuff.
00:09:34And he gave me like these toys and stuff.
00:09:37And I was like, oh my God, I feel so bad.
00:09:39Why wouldn't you tell me no?
00:09:43He goes, well, I don't know.
00:09:44You wanted it and I didn't really want to.
00:09:46And I was like, oh, what an ugly thing, you know.
00:09:51- People don't like to call out the game that much.
00:09:54It feels like, I think about it,
00:09:55like playing a game of ping pong or tennis or whatever.
00:09:58And the ball's going backward and forward
00:09:59between me and you and me and you and me and you.
00:10:02And then someone just goes and hits it sideways.
00:10:04And you're like, no, it's supposed to go this way.
00:10:07Like you're supposed to continue to play the game
00:10:09within the confines and the rules of the game.
00:10:11And sometimes going, is this thing happening
00:10:15because of a you preference
00:10:17or because you're trying to look after me?
00:10:19Or why don't you, it feels like,
00:10:21it feels a little sort of discordant, right?
00:10:24It's sort of one key out on the cord of-
00:10:26- Discordant. - Discordant.
00:10:28- Not on a cord.
00:10:29- Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:10:30So you're like, oh, oh, that wasn't quite in the flow
00:10:33of the game that we were playing
00:10:34because you've stepped out of it
00:10:36and then pointed at the game itself.
00:10:38- Well, I would argue that the game that we were playing
00:10:40was this and this.
00:10:41And the moment you hit it this way,
00:10:43that isn't the game that we're playing.
00:10:44So I'm not breaking the game.
00:10:46I'm just trying to better understand
00:10:48what game we're playing, right?
00:10:50And-
00:10:51- But that makes people uncomfortable,
00:10:52as you have identified.
00:10:54- Okay.
00:10:57But then I guess we'll just play a different game.
00:11:02I like the assessment of sort of,
00:11:05why are we doing this thing?
00:11:06And what is the reason that this particular interactions go?
00:11:09How are you feeling right now?
00:11:11Like, that's a fucking wonderful question.
00:11:12Like, how are you feeling?
00:11:13- Yeah.
00:11:14- How are you doing?
00:11:15Like, how are you feeling?
00:11:17- I would like to take that and raise you a,
00:11:22telling somebody how you're feeling.
00:11:25Hey, I'm uncomfortable.
00:11:28It's just a little cold.
00:11:29Could we, how are you?
00:11:31Like, I think also, 'cause I ask people, I ask people,
00:11:36I mean, I feel this way with dates.
00:11:37I talked about this in my act now,
00:11:38so I don't want to like do too much about it.
00:11:40But like, for the longest time, I wouldn't,
00:11:43I have so many fears of going in for a first kiss.
00:11:46And they're not even that they're not going to want
00:11:48to kiss me back or that they won't kiss me.
00:11:49My big fear is, what if I go in to kiss somebody
00:11:53and they kiss me back because it's easier?
00:11:56- Pity.
00:11:57- Not even pity, just not wanting to be on, maybe.
00:12:00But like, I think more realistically it's,
00:12:03'cause I guess maybe I don't see myself
00:12:05as somebody who's people pity.
00:12:06But like, it was easier just to go like this.
00:12:09Like just, I'll kiss him.
00:12:12It's not that big of a deal.
00:12:12- So what is the motivation that you fear?
00:12:14What would be the ultimate, what's at the core of that?
00:12:16- It's the same thing of people when people say,
00:12:18"How you doing?
00:12:19Good things, how are you?"
00:12:20Are you interested?
00:12:21And are you good?
00:12:23It's fine.
00:12:24It's just a call and response.
00:12:24- It's a procedural kiss.
00:12:26- Yeah, it's like, oh, you know,
00:12:27we went on a couple of dates, you know, whatever.
00:12:30It's easier to kiss somebody
00:12:32and then just say have a good night for some people
00:12:34than it is to be like, whoa, whoa, whoa,
00:12:36I don't want to set a boundary, say how I feel.
00:12:39I take things that, I used to take things at face value
00:12:44until I realized that I can't.
00:12:46And now I don't know when I can.
00:12:48So I'm just skeptical all the time.
00:12:49And like, so the only way I feel
00:12:53that I get enough information is to ask so many questions.
00:12:59- When we kissed, it wasn't a long kiss.
00:13:02I kind of wanted to kiss you more,
00:13:03but I don't know if you wanted to make out.
00:13:05I'm not asking you to make out with me right now.
00:13:07But like, if later on, if we kissed a little bit,
00:13:09is it okay if we make out?
00:13:11You know, and some people might be like,
00:13:12"What the fuck are you saying to me?"
00:13:14You know, then some people were raised by the Simpsons.
00:13:16And when you're able to ask a lot of questions
00:13:18and that they like that, then they ask questions.
00:13:22Oh my God, thank you.
00:13:23I was dating a girl who, I hate spoilers.
00:13:27I hate spoilers.
00:13:28If I know I'm going to see something,
00:13:28I don't even want to see the trailer.
00:13:30And sometimes people give spoilers
00:13:31and they don't realize what they're spoiling.
00:13:33I'm not saying anything.
00:13:34I'm just saying at the end, I was a little confused.
00:13:36Well, now I know, you know, the dreidel doesn't stop spinning.
00:13:39Like what, don't tell me anything.
00:13:41So we're watching a show that she had already seen
00:13:43the first couple episodes.
00:13:44And she says something that I don't think she realizes,
00:13:46now I know something.
00:13:47This is what I do.
00:13:48Okay, I know he's a bad guy now.
00:13:50I, the stakes weren't that high, but I'm still like,
00:13:54you know, if you're watching a sporting event, fuck!
00:13:56You know, something happens, you get upset.
00:13:58Like, are you okay?
00:13:59No, it's fine.
00:13:59I just, they missed the big bucket or whatever the hell.
00:14:02I reacted quite passionately.
00:14:03- How many dates in was this?
00:14:07- I mean, we've been dating for over a year.
00:14:09I mean, she knows who I am.
00:14:09- Okay, right, right, right.
00:14:11- No, it wasn't this, it was this.
00:14:17And she was like, she was acting in a way for my benefit
00:14:20in a way to be like, oh no, no,
00:14:22you actually don't know that that's what it is
00:14:23because here's some red herrings and I don't need fish.
00:14:27And I mean that literally and metaphorically.
00:14:29So I'm like, no, no, no, you're acting right now.
00:14:32I know that 'cause, and I'm just like,
00:14:34I, to me, it's like, we're playing.
00:14:37I'm not happy that you scored a bucket on me,
00:14:39but it's still like, this is connection for me.
00:14:42I still like, like, no, no, no, 'cause I noticed this.
00:14:44All right, whatever, we sit down and maybe a minute goes by
00:14:48and I just, I don't know what changed.
00:14:50I just know the, I don't consciously recognize
00:14:53why it changed.
00:14:54I just notice the energy changed.
00:14:56And I asked if you're like, what happened?
00:15:00And she said that I hurt her feelings.
00:15:02And I immediately started like literally crying.
00:15:06I don't just mean I felt bad.
00:15:07I mean, tears were coming down my face.
00:15:09At the moment, I didn't recognize it.
00:15:11I soon thereafter did, but like,
00:15:13and I'm so sorry and I apologized.
00:15:16When I realized the reason I was crying
00:15:20wasn't specifically 'cause I hurt her feelings
00:15:24as much as I had no idea that I hurt her feelings.
00:15:28I had no, like, I'm an adult, I'm dating this person.
00:15:33I had no idea I hurt her feelings,
00:15:35which just made me feel bad about myself.
00:15:39And like, just like, sometimes things like that happen
00:15:42and I go back and think about how fucking clueless
00:15:44I was as a kid.
00:15:45And like, I have a bit that I say on stage now
00:15:48where I didn't have friends growing up,
00:15:50but I didn't know that until I turned 30.
00:15:52I just thought everybody was busy all the time.
00:15:54Like no, people just made excuses and stuff.
00:15:56And like, and also the point, the reason I bring that up
00:15:59is because if I didn't say to her,
00:16:02"Hey, what just happened?"
00:16:03She might not have said, "You hurt my feelings."
00:16:06So in the midst of things, if somebody says,
00:16:07"Hey, I don't like this."
00:16:09I would be like, "Thank you for telling me."
00:16:11But if you don't tell me that, I'm going to keep punching.
00:16:14I'm going to keep like,
00:16:15doing what I think we're supposed to be doing.
00:16:18So I like when people ask questions.
00:16:20I like when people tell me how they feel.
00:16:22I sometimes have given myself the responsibility
00:16:25to like ask numerous times
00:16:28how somebody feels like what you said,
00:16:29but I'm still not convinced I'm going to get the answer.
00:16:33- It feels like you're excavating a little bit
00:16:36to try and find the boundaries of what is
00:16:38and is not acceptable behavior.
00:16:41- Acceptable for the other person.
00:16:43- Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:16:44Is this okay?
00:16:45Was that okay?
00:16:45Is that going to be okay?
00:16:47Is this because in retrospect,
00:16:49you realized that there were an infinite number of situations
00:16:53that you would sort of plowed through believing one world
00:16:55and the rest of the world seeing a totally different one?
00:16:58- Yeah, I came into some self-awareness
00:17:00about eight years ago and I learned things about myself
00:17:02and I learned how much I'm missing stuff.
00:17:05For a couple of years thereafter, I was very much that.
00:17:08Kind of like what you suggested I might be.
00:17:10That's why I was curious why you said that.
00:17:12Is this okay?
00:17:13Am I, should I not, am I, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
00:17:15You know, I'm like using my turning signal
00:17:17when it's a right turn only.
00:17:18Like I'm just always making sure.
00:17:20I'm just joking.
00:17:21You know, I would say stuff like that.
00:17:23And like, what I realized was before I was clueless
00:17:27about everyone was feeling and I thought I was,
00:17:29I thought every, 'cause I,
00:17:30I grew up with very supportive parents and I believed them.
00:17:35I don't know if they were right, but I'm the funniest,
00:17:38I'm the most charming, everyone loves me.
00:17:40And this wasn't the case at all.
00:17:42And I was so much happier thinking everybody loved me
00:17:46than when I realized I'm just, I'm bothering people.
00:17:48But now, you know,
00:17:50I graduated into knowing that I bother people.
00:17:53So how do I control that?
00:17:55And what I learned is I still couldn't.
00:17:57I still did all of the things
00:17:58I thought I was supposed to do in checking in.
00:18:01And I didn't feel anything different
00:18:05other than lower self-worth.
00:18:09That's not me saying that who cares what other people think.
00:18:13I very much care what other people think.
00:18:14The difference is to care and to consider it
00:18:19without necessarily prioritizing it if you disagree.
00:18:22So like, if I come, if I hurt your feelings,
00:18:25I can't disagree with that.
00:18:27That's something I want to know so I could do better.
00:18:30If you say, hey, you know,
00:18:33don't put the hat and the keys there.
00:18:35If I wanted them there for whatever reason,
00:18:37it's a hat that I'm promoting something or whatever,
00:18:40I would consider what you were saying.
00:18:42I disagree with you and I'd have a, I challenge it.
00:18:46And I would go back and forth
00:18:47and ultimately we figure out what we do.
00:18:49So I've kind of hurtled that hump of like,
00:18:51I'm annoying everybody and more come out the other end of,
00:18:54I probably going to annoy people and just not,
00:18:57I mean, there's only so much that is in my control.
00:19:00But my friends and my circle,
00:19:04I don't think it's a coincidence that they're all people
00:19:08who are able to, you're being loud.
00:19:11You know, they could tell me I'm being loud
00:19:13and then I could be like, oh, sorry.
00:19:14And I could be quiet, you know.
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00:20:15to drinkelement.com/modernwisdom.
00:20:17There's no code.
00:20:19I usually care about the box more than that.
00:20:27Drinkelement.com/modernwisdom.
00:20:30That's a very quick
00:20:33alchemization of that lesson.
00:20:38I've learned that people don't necessarily see me
00:20:41or the world the way that I see them or the world.
00:20:44And again, you can try to change yourself in one way.
00:20:49Like I'll make sure that everybody else is okay
00:20:51before I continue to do this thing.
00:20:53Or you can do the other one, which is,
00:20:54I'm just gonna become comfortable with being corrected
00:20:59by people and try and sort of proactively seek
00:21:03as much correction as possible by instigating it.
00:21:05And also by picking friends who don't even need me
00:21:08to instigate it.
00:21:09They're like, hey, break, shut the fuck up, dude.
00:21:10Let's just chill out or whatever.
00:21:12They're your guidance system.
00:21:14- They're also, it's those, it's not just me picking them.
00:21:17It's the people that are okay with me.
00:21:18So they're also picking me.
00:21:20- Because anybody that wasn't okay with that
00:21:22wouldn't be able to-
00:21:23- I'm too much for them or not enough for them.
00:21:26I found that valuing the information
00:21:28of you're being too loud or this or whatever
00:21:30as information, not as criticism really is a great cheat
00:21:35to kind of like surpass the ego of like,
00:21:37if someone says I'm being too loud,
00:21:39I don't like, oh, I must be too loud.
00:21:41I'm a loud person.
00:21:42No, I'm not.
00:21:43And then it's like, you're debating yourself.
00:21:44But when somebody says you're being loud,
00:21:46what they're saying is for their ears,
00:21:49this is an uncomfortable volume.
00:21:50I can't dispute that.
00:21:52That has nothing to do with me.
00:21:54The only thing it has to do with me
00:21:54is what I choose to do with that information.
00:21:56I very, very much seek that, not just the information,
00:22:01but to surround myself with people
00:22:03who are generous enough to offer it.
00:22:06- I think a simple analogy.
00:22:07I've said this on my podcast before, but it's like,
00:22:11when somebody says you have a booger in your nose,
00:22:13you're like, oh, I want to be around this person.
00:22:14I might not be happy that there's been a booger in my nose,
00:22:18but I'll be happier than looking at it later
00:22:20and seeing that it's been there the whole time, you know?
00:22:22- No, I like this question of self-deception.
00:22:26Are we aware of why we do the things that we do?
00:22:28And then we want to understand somebody else
00:22:30because maybe we want to connect with them
00:22:31or we want to be a better person ourselves.
00:22:34It's like you broke up with me.
00:22:35Can you tell me why?
00:22:36- Before you leave, before you get the black bag,
00:22:39can you tell me why you broke up with me?
00:22:41- I would prefer if you let me know why
00:22:42before you decided to break up with me.
00:22:43- That would be preferable.
00:22:44But you know, that's not the scene.
00:22:46The scene is that they've got the black bags out.
00:22:48- I'm just arguing that this person
00:22:49probably won't be able to tell me why.
00:22:52- Because they-
00:22:54- I would have known by now.
00:22:55- Maybe, but perhaps they didn't feel like
00:22:59they had the permission to do it.
00:23:01Perhaps they were scared.
00:23:02It was a them thing, not a you thing.
00:23:03How about that?
00:23:05- Okay, deal.
00:23:07Question for you.
00:23:08I've got a little out of,
00:23:09like I wasn't present with you for like 30 seconds.
00:23:12I heard you, but like, when I moved like this,
00:23:14I was aware, are we able to, how's our focus?
00:23:16Are we, is this annoying if I'm doing here and here?
00:23:18- I don't know.
00:23:19- Okay.
00:23:20- You're all right.
00:23:21- Nice.
00:23:22I love talking about this kind of stuff.
00:23:23I love talking about this kind of stuff
00:23:25with somebody who, one, we don't know each other, so you,
00:23:29but like when it's like somebody that you might be working,
00:23:33like you know you're going to be seeing this person a lot
00:23:35and you're going to be dating them,
00:23:36working with them or whatever.
00:23:38And like, hey, let's, could we just talk about
00:23:41how we're wired for just like hours?
00:23:45You know what I'm saying?
00:23:46And then we could forget about it
00:23:48because then when something comes up,
00:23:50it'll be like, oh, this is what I was talking about before.
00:23:51Thank you for letting me know.
00:23:52Or would you mind just almost like marinating
00:23:56in potential shorthand that could come out later?
00:23:58I think it would be really cool to like have a one page
00:24:03that you continue to get a doctor, you add to it,
00:24:05you take away of all your faults.
00:24:08Not your faults, things that you're admitting necessarily
00:24:11or faults that are like, here's things that I'm ashamed of,
00:24:13but I don't want to be.
00:24:14I mean, faults that benefit the other person to know.
00:24:16You know, like I sometimes don't make space for other people
00:24:19because I interrupt a lot.
00:24:21It doesn't mean I'm not interested in you,
00:24:22but you might sometimes have to check me and say,
00:24:24hey Rick, I wasn't done yet.
00:24:26You know, certain things like that, I think as a name tag,
00:24:30I think would be just a really cool way of meeting people.
00:24:32Here's a one page introduction.
00:24:34This is, yeah, this is your induction day.
00:24:36It's your induction day to our friendship or relationship.
00:24:39Please make sure you really need to check out section four.
00:24:42The bottom that is kind of crucial.
00:24:44Sometimes people skip over that one and if they do,
00:24:45it usually ends up being an issue down the line.
00:24:48No, I think that's great.
00:24:49Yeah, I take criticism about anything personally.
00:24:54Like I get defensive if it feels like I'm being attacked
00:24:57even when I'm not being attacked.
00:24:59I go quiet if there's an argument going on.
00:25:03That doesn't mean that I don't want to talk about it.
00:25:05It's just that my response sometimes takes longer to happen
00:25:08or I'm sometimes real fast with my responses
00:25:10and that doesn't mean that I know what I'm talking about.
00:25:12Sometimes I just want to talk to fill the space
00:25:14so that I know of it.
00:25:15Great, I'm feeling emotional.
00:25:17Yep.
00:25:18I mean, you know, like somebody says it
00:25:18and then when that thing happens, you're like,
00:25:21oh, that's that thing.
00:25:22And that's hopefully what happens
00:25:25as you get to know somebody.
00:25:25You don't just get to know the pleasures.
00:25:28You get to know the obstacles.
00:25:30We fall in love with that, I think.
00:25:33Fall in love with what part?
00:25:34We fall in love with both,
00:25:35but what we don't fall in love with
00:25:36are all of the ways that people are like everybody else.
00:25:40We fall in love with people's uniquenesses
00:25:43and that goes on both sides.
00:25:45A perfect example, my friend, Georgie's mom,
00:25:47she hates fighting.
00:25:49Does not like physical fighting at all.
00:25:51Doesn't like UFC.
00:25:52Doesn't like watching her boys fight when they were kids.
00:25:55And she was in the car with George's younger brother
00:25:58driving through the UK.
00:26:00And she saw two teenage boys
00:26:02sort of squaring up to each other
00:26:04by the side of a pavement,
00:26:05walking home from school or something.
00:26:07She's in the middle of traffic.
00:26:09Stops the car in the middle of traffic,
00:26:10gets out of the car,
00:26:11runs across the road over traffic to the pavement
00:26:14to be like, no fighting.
00:26:15No, she was like fucking Cillian Murphy in Peaky Blinders.
00:26:17No fucking fighting.
00:26:19No fucking fighting.
00:26:20And she's in the middle.
00:26:21And his brother was on the phone to him at the time,
00:26:25going, Mom has just got out.
00:26:27We're in the middle of traffic.
00:26:28She stopped the car.
00:26:29This car's behind us.
00:26:29They're beeping.
00:26:30She's in the middle of this fight between these two teenagers
00:26:31telling them to stop.
00:26:33It's like at her funeral,
00:26:36people are not going to say
00:26:37that she was the sort of person who turned up on time
00:26:42or like, you know, made an acceptable flan.
00:26:46They're gonna say she was the sort of woman
00:26:47that stopped the car in the middle of traffic
00:26:49to stop a fight between two strangers that she didn't know.
00:26:51Like that's where we fall in love with people.
00:26:53- Also would have been a good clip.
00:26:55- Would have been a good clip.
00:26:57But I think we fall in love.
00:27:00Remember NFTs, when everyone was like into NFTs,
00:27:03non-fungible humans is the same.
00:27:05It's like, okay, what's non-fungible about this person?
00:27:08Oh, that's what I fall in love with.
00:27:09Because by design, if you can find it anywhere,
00:27:13like why this person and not the next one
00:27:15or the next one or the next one,
00:27:16this isn't an argument for like be as weird
00:27:18and unique performatively as possible,
00:27:20but embrace the bits of you
00:27:22that have little tumors sticking out of them,
00:27:26like the spiky bits and the like little divots and stuff
00:27:29that are out of this smooth shape.
00:27:31Because if you try and smooth all of those things off,
00:27:32I think you make yourself into a shape
00:27:34that like everybody else can perceive.
00:27:36- Yeah, I agree.
00:27:38I also think that on the other end of that is some things,
00:27:43let's not be too proud
00:27:45and think that we shouldn't shave them down.
00:27:47You know, like, I think there's an art.
00:27:50I think there's, excuse me, I think there's a craft
00:27:52to the line, recognizing and making efficient
00:27:57the line between self-love
00:27:59and the want for self-improvement.
00:28:02And they're not mutually exclusive,
00:28:04but this idea of, hey, this is me, take it or leave it.
00:28:08Yeah, once you've broken it down to its core
00:28:12and this is what it is, there's only, you know, like,
00:28:15there's only, I'm always gonna have neuroses.
00:28:19But like, so I make people, when I go into my home,
00:28:22I take off my clothes and I change into my indoor clothes.
00:28:26- All clothes, including?
00:28:27- Anything that's been outside and touch something.
00:28:31So if I go walk my dog in my indoor clothes,
00:28:33if I don't lean up against something or sit on a chair,
00:28:36they're still indoor clothes.
00:28:37But even if I just sat in my car.
00:28:39- What if it's raining?
00:28:40- Depends how wet it is, I'm okay with rain.
00:28:42- Okay.
00:28:43- It's touching something
00:28:45that I don't know what touched it before.
00:28:47And it's not about germs, it's not that logical.
00:28:49It's just, oh, this is outdoor now.
00:28:51Like, so, so like I've had, so that's,
00:28:54it's a pain in the ass, but it's my choice.
00:28:57But then when people come over my place,
00:28:59I'm-
00:29:01- Don't forget to bring your change of clothes.
00:29:02- Yeah, I'm making my thing your burden.
00:29:05And I'll always have until I don't,
00:29:08but right now this is an issue.
00:29:10How could I, well, fuck it, this is who I am,
00:29:12that don't come over versus how could I help
00:29:14this other person not have to cater to me.
00:29:17So there are different ways of doing this.
00:29:19The way that I found is the most efficient is
00:29:21I just got blankets all over the place for you to sit on.
00:29:24It's obnoxious.
00:29:25- That's a house condom.
00:29:26- Yeah, it's a house, it's a house condom.
00:29:28Yeah, it's a house condom.
00:29:29I would prefer to get to know you well enough
00:29:31to where you could take your clothes off
00:29:32and put on something else.
00:29:34But I'm like an old black woman,
00:29:35but instead of plastic things,
00:29:36it's just blankets that I'm constantly washing.
00:29:39So I'm dating somebody and they're accepting of this.
00:29:43They come over and they're like, "Hey, I took a shower
00:29:45"and I just changed into brand new clothes."
00:29:47And I'm like, "I recognize this, I'm appreciative.
00:29:50"More than that, I'm so sorry
00:29:52"that you felt you had to do this,
00:29:54"but I don't think you understand.
00:29:55"You put those clothes on and you sat in your car
00:29:57"where you've also sat after you were at the gym
00:29:59"in those clothes.
00:30:00"Hey, those are outdoor clothes.
00:30:02"Let's just sit on some blankets."
00:30:04So like, I am this thing, I accept this of myself.
00:30:08I don't love it, I'm working on it,
00:30:10but I have accepted this is what it is.
00:30:12If I were to accept what this is
00:30:14and just lean into that entirely,
00:30:16you'd be wearing a fucking hazmat suit
00:30:19every time you came into my house,
00:30:20which then makes it worse and worse and worse.
00:30:22So by me letting people into my home
00:30:25in their outdoor clothes and they sit on the blanket,
00:30:29that's, then sometimes they sit on like somebody,
00:30:33on my podcast, I have blankets for everybody.
00:30:36Somebody will sit off the blanket for a second.
00:30:38It used to be, ah, you know, like I need a new couch.
00:30:41You know, now it's like, I don't even react that way.
00:30:43Now I don't like it, but it's,
00:30:44hey, could you do me a favor?
00:30:45Could you, and they go, oh, I'm so sorry.
00:30:48Like, it's all good.
00:30:49And now I'm not losing my mind.
00:30:51- That's why it's important to tell them before
00:30:53about the things, because if that thing comes up
00:30:55and you have to do the explaining
00:30:56and the enforcement at the same time,
00:30:59oh, well, fucking what?
00:31:00I wasn't even aware of this.
00:31:01This feels like a lot.
00:31:02I've been pulled over by the police
00:31:03to enforce a law I didn't know existed.
00:31:05- I actually learned that I have to tell them before,
00:31:07not because of that, but because they, I do a lot of,
00:31:11I'm a silly boy.
00:31:13So they just think I'm making a joke.
00:31:15So it's not that they're-
00:31:15- No, no, no, no, this one, this is a real one.
00:31:18- How do you, yeah.
00:31:19- It sounds like the thing I said just before that wasn't.
00:31:21- But this one's real.
00:31:22- This one's real.
00:31:23- Yeah. - Yeah.
00:31:24It's the boy who cried wolf, but for comedians.
00:31:26- Yeah, it's the boy who cried couch.
00:31:27- Yeah, the boy who cried blanket.
00:31:29- Yeah.
00:31:30- In other news, I've been drinking AG1 every morning
00:31:33for years now.
00:31:34Dude, you tried to fast ball me that.
00:31:37That was down the plate and I've just Shohei Ohtani did.
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00:31:47I have got my mom to start taking it,
00:31:48my dad to start taking it, and all of my friends as well.
00:31:51And if I found anything better, I would switch,
00:31:54but I haven't.
00:31:54Why do you keep throwing it at the mic?
00:31:55Stop throwing it at the mic.
00:31:57See?
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00:32:23This isn't even an ad read anymore.
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00:32:45Thank you.
00:32:49Yeah, you've got this great line.
00:32:51The self-love movement is beautiful and necessary,
00:32:53but not at the expense of growth.
00:32:55And I think that, that.
00:32:57- There's a research guy over here.
00:32:58- Well, I did a little wee wee wee wee wee wee wee wee wee wee.
00:33:01- It was on a clip, it wasn't a deep dive.
00:33:04- I think it's interesting that in my world,
00:33:07where I come from, the insecure overachiever,
00:33:10hustle grind set kind of background.
00:33:12- Insecure overachiever, does that mean you're overachieving
00:33:14'cause you're insecure of where you're at?
00:33:16- Yes, yeah.
00:33:17- Well, congrats.
00:33:18- Thank you.
00:33:18Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:33:19- Now we're recording at Disneyland.
00:33:20- Yeah, you can build big shit as somebody
00:33:22that just desperately wants to be liked by people.
00:33:25But that side of the balance board
00:33:31requires more of the self-love stuff.
00:33:33It's like, hey dude, fucking, let me give you this idea.
00:33:36It's called productivity debt.
00:33:39So every morning you wake up
00:33:40believing that you're already overdrawn
00:33:43with your day's production.
00:33:45And only if you absolutely flawlessly
00:33:47nail your entire day's work.
00:33:49- What is overdrawn, like you have too much to do?
00:33:52- That there is some sort of cosmic karmic debt
00:33:54that you need to repay in terms of output productively.
00:33:59And only if you do lots and lots of work that day,
00:34:02will you claw yourself back up to, at best, zero.
00:34:06Not one or 10 or 100, but you start at minus some number.
00:34:10And whatever that number is, is the exact number
00:34:13of as much work as you can do today flawlessly.
00:34:15And if you take too much time off, you realize,
00:34:19I finished the day on minus two.
00:34:20Like, oh, minus five or minus 10 or whatever.
00:34:23That's kind of the side of the world, I think,
00:34:26that drawn to some of the stuff
00:34:28that I have talked about in the past.
00:34:31Although that's morphing somewhat
00:34:32and has morphed over maybe the last sort of two years.
00:34:35We've spent a lot of time talking about life hacks
00:34:37and self-improvement and training and so on and so forth.
00:34:40And that's great, and I loved it, right?
00:34:41Personal growth's been fucking wonderful for me.
00:34:44But you can sort of go too far on that.
00:34:48You know those balance board things?
00:34:51It's like a skateboard deck
00:34:52and there's sort of a cylinder below it.
00:34:54And you can imagine that you're standing on it
00:34:55and you're always sort of doing this.
00:34:57- A teeter totter?
00:34:58- Is that what that's called?
00:34:59- Yeah.
00:35:00- Okay, teeter totter, thank you.
00:35:01- That's, yeah.
00:35:02- British.
00:35:02- That's what you're talking about, right?
00:35:03You're sitting on and then you...
00:35:04Like if we were on one right now, I would go like this.
00:35:08- Oh, no, no, no, no.
00:35:09That would be a seesaw.
00:35:10So imagine a skateboard deck and imagine just like a--
00:35:14- What's the difference between a teeter totter and a seesaw?
00:35:16- I think it's the same thing.
00:35:17It's just the British version.
00:35:18- No, it's a joke.
00:35:19- Oh.
00:35:20- No, it sounded like one.
00:35:21- Damn it.
00:35:22- So I don't know what you're saying.
00:35:23- Skateboard deck, yeah?
00:35:24Imagine, skateboard deck's like this, okay?
00:35:26And there's a cylinder that's running underneath it
00:35:29and you were to stand on the skateboard deck.
00:35:31So you would be doing this to balance.
00:35:32- Okay.
00:35:33- Do you have this visual in your mind?
00:35:34- I think.
00:35:35- Okay.
00:35:36At no point are you actually balanced, right?
00:35:40Or you could pick any, on a balance beam.
00:35:43At no point are you--
00:35:43- I know what you're talking about.
00:35:45- You're always going to be making micro adjustments,
00:35:47even when you're like, oh, I'm like really stable.
00:35:50- I know this isn't necessary 'cause I get it,
00:35:52but what I'm picturing is when I,
00:35:54'cause when you twist your ankle and you do rehab,
00:35:56you're on a board with a ball at the bottom
00:35:58and you're just constantly, like if it's too left,
00:36:01you gotta go right and you gotta do this.
00:36:02- Yes.
00:36:03- Okay, all right, let's go.
00:36:03- At no point is your foot completely flat.
00:36:05Even when it's really flat,
00:36:07it's still just making little micro adjustments
00:36:10here and there.
00:36:11And I kind of get the sense that this self-love
00:36:14and growth tension thing that we're talking about,
00:36:17well, you know, accept who you are.
00:36:19Don't whip yourself so much
00:36:22that you're permanently miserable
00:36:23or always in a sense of lack or never feel good enough.
00:36:27But also don't be so accepting of yourself
00:36:29that you make your pathology somebody else's burden,
00:36:32that you are never galvanized sufficiently
00:36:37to actually go and fucking do something with you, right?
00:36:39- Good work.
00:36:40- On one end, you have a victim
00:36:42and on the other end,
00:36:43you have like an unrelenting tyrant of the self.
00:36:47And I think that the tension between those two is interesting.
00:36:50And where do you come from?
00:36:50Which culture do you come from?
00:36:52And where are you on the balance board right now?
00:36:54- I think about that often before I go on stage.
00:36:57I'm assuming you know, but I'm a standup comedian.
00:37:02So when I go on stage to do comedy.
00:37:04And I don't know if nervous is the best word,
00:37:09but it's the best way I can think of to explain the feeling.
00:37:15It's a feeling of nervousness,
00:37:16but it's almost like the space between what am I going to do?
00:37:23And I've been doing this many times
00:37:24and I always feel this way.
00:37:25I know it'll be fine, right?
00:37:27And my mom says to me sometimes before a show,
00:37:32at least she used to.
00:37:34Now she said, be funny, just like a thing to say.
00:37:36And I would always, I say, and now I say, I'll try.
00:37:40I mean, maybe, but the only thing that's in my control
00:37:42is to be present.
00:37:43And it sounds corny, but I really say that to myself
00:37:46because if I go in with the responsibility of being funny,
00:37:49what if I'm not?
00:37:50And I very well might not be.
00:37:52And if that's what I need to be, then I might fail.
00:37:54Not that there's a problem with failing,
00:37:56but I don't want to set myself up for this idea
00:37:58of I might be failing
00:37:58when I'm just trying to get in a mindset.
00:38:01If I'm present, I believe that
00:38:04that's the best opportunity I have to be funny.
00:38:06So if I'm not going to be funny today,
00:38:08chances are it's 'cause I wasn't present.
00:38:10And if I was present and not funny,
00:38:12then I wasn't going to be funny anyway.
00:38:14- Wow, so you found the thing which is further upstream
00:38:18of the outcome that you're actually looking for.
00:38:20- Yes.
00:38:21- And you're optimizing for that thing.
00:38:22- And one of the reasons I'm thinking of that
00:38:23is one of the reasons that,
00:38:25one of the ways that helps me do that is,
00:38:27well, you know, it's easy to say to be present
00:38:31as like affirmations, this idea of looking in the mirror
00:38:34and saying, I'm good enough, I'm smart enough,
00:38:36and gosh darn it, people love me, whatever.
00:38:38Like if I don't believe that,
00:38:39then he's not going to believe it.
00:38:41So what can I believe?
00:38:43And what I can believe is this idea of this like acceptance
00:38:46versus getting yourself better.
00:38:48I know I can be better.
00:38:50I want to be better.
00:38:51And I want to try and be better.
00:38:53But I'm about to go on stage in one minute.
00:38:55This is the best I could be right now.
00:38:57So this isn't about being better.
00:38:59This is about fully accepting.
00:39:00This is my best.
00:39:04And then tomorrow I could be like, well, I wasn't prepared.
00:39:06I remember a buddy of mine, David Sullivan,
00:39:10who also is an actor,
00:39:11and he coaches me for things as an actor.
00:39:15And I remember years ago,
00:39:17he was helping me for this audition.
00:39:19And I was just like, I didn't learn my lines
00:39:21because I'll just learn them with him.
00:39:22And that's fine sometimes.
00:39:24But like the amount of time we had,
00:39:26and then we did the audition and I'm just like,
00:39:28I just didn't know.
00:39:29Like I just, I'm not present
00:39:32'cause I'm thinking about my lines.
00:39:33And it's not that big of a deal.
00:39:34It wasn't that deep of a thing.
00:39:35It was just, it clocked for me.
00:39:36'Cause he goes, how does that feel?
00:39:39And like, I was like, yeah, I understand.
00:39:41Like he's the parenting me.
00:39:42He goes, just no, don't put yourself in a situation
00:39:45to feel that way next time.
00:39:46Now I've been in situations where I didn't prepare enough
00:39:48for an audition or whatever.
00:39:49I'm not saying that like it's changed my life,
00:39:51but it offered that perspective of,
00:39:53if there's something that you could do about it,
00:39:55do about it, do it that way next time.
00:39:58But don't sit in shame and like, maybe I fucked, I shouldn't.
00:40:01This is where we are right now.
00:40:04Do this and recognize if you don't like that feeling,
00:40:06try and change it next time.
00:40:08If you don't mind it, then you won't.
00:40:11So when I go on stage and I'm thinking like,
00:40:13what am I going to do?
00:40:14It's like the best I could possibly be,
00:40:17which might not be great, is to just remove that thing.
00:40:21Because then, you know, I'm sitting here and you're talking.
00:40:23I'm like, am I in focus?
00:40:24Whether I'm in focus or not isn't my responsibility.
00:40:27Maybe it doesn't matter that much either way,
00:40:28but until I address it, you know?
00:40:30So yeah, I think that self-acceptance is a beautiful thing
00:40:35to do for today.
00:40:37And then tomorrow, look at who you were.
00:40:40And do you like that?
00:40:45It's been a very, very intentional journey for me
00:40:50over the past eight years of like learning, is this okay?
00:40:55What's this?
00:40:59Is it okay that I'm coming at this?
00:41:01This is not a real,
00:41:02I'm making something up right now, the answer.
00:41:06At least not consciously, but is it okay
00:41:08that I'm coming in here and talking too much?
00:41:11Talking about feelings, not doing bits.
00:41:13Is it, should I have worn my sunglasses
00:41:15because I think I have a stye on my eye that's showing?
00:41:18Like all of these things,
00:41:20like I don't want to care about anything.
00:41:24I don't want to care about anything,
00:41:26but then that's too far the other way.
00:41:28So like constantly doing this and going like,
00:41:32and ultimately, and this is maybe a corny thing
00:41:35and it's a Snapple bottle, but like I love who I am.
00:41:42I love who I am so much, I might be wrong.
00:41:46I also think I'm so funny, I do.
00:41:48I'm on stage sometimes and I think I'm so funny.
00:41:51I also know I might be wrong.
00:41:54I don't want to not feel that way,
00:41:58but I don't want to feel like now I'm not that funny.
00:42:01But I also don't want to think that you all think this
00:42:04because then there's nothing to grow from, you know?
00:42:07So this constant thing of like, I love who I am,
00:42:11am I being received accurately?
00:42:13And if so, you don't love me, that's okay.
00:42:17If you're not receiving me accurately,
00:42:18is there a better way I could have set this up?
00:42:21Is there a one page that I need to give you?
00:42:23What do I need to let you know
00:42:25to give me the best opportunity for us to enjoy each other?
00:42:29And it's exhausting and that's where it's like
00:42:32at a certain point, did you watch the Simpsons?
00:42:35You know, at a certain point it's like,
00:42:37your frequency isn't better or worse than mine,
00:42:40but it might be different.
00:42:41And if we're like this,
00:42:43then I'm going to have to meet you here
00:42:45or you're going to have to meet me here.
00:42:46But if it's close enough, you know,
00:42:50so that's where I'm at in my life now of like recognizing
00:42:53if this person's close to my frequency,
00:42:58I think I maybe need to make some adjustments.
00:43:00If they're not close to my frequency,
00:43:02- What are we doing?
00:43:03- Yeah, I don't need to learn your amazing vocabulary
00:43:05for a language that I don't even speak, you know?
00:43:07So like, teach me things if we're speaking the same language
00:43:11and if we're not speaking the same language
00:43:13and we're working together,
00:43:14or you're the sister of somebody, I'm in a relationship.
00:43:16Like then you have to do that thing
00:43:18where you dress a certain way and you squint
00:43:21and you lean forward and you like, oh, that's nice.
00:43:24And you give a firm handshake
00:43:25and it's not consciously manipulative,
00:43:28but I do think it's like,
00:43:29I also talk about on stage this idea of like,
00:43:32when people say, how you doing?
00:43:33I used to really struggle with it.
00:43:34I would be like, what do you want from me?
00:43:36You know, like, I don't want to tell you.
00:43:38I don't want to talk about that.
00:43:39I don't, we're just walking our dogs,
00:43:41but I've learned it's a call and response.
00:43:43And when someone says, how you doing?
00:43:44They're not asking how you are necessarily.
00:43:46They're just letting you know that they see you for a minute
00:43:49and then you say good things, how are you?
00:43:51In therapy, I was like, it was a,
00:43:53I call it a challenge.
00:43:55Maybe it was homework to like,
00:43:56just start saying good things, how are you?
00:43:57Even if you feel it's lying, just see how,
00:44:00maybe you get used to it, you know?
00:44:01It's like people sitting on a blanket
00:44:03instead of changing their clothes.
00:44:06So I do it and sometimes
00:44:08someone will say, how you doing?
00:44:12And I go, good things, how are you?
00:44:14And they go, good, how are you?
00:44:16And I'm like, I'm like, you started it.
00:44:19You know, this is, this is fucking crazy.
00:44:21I'm right.
00:44:23This is crazy.
00:44:24- Have you ever seen someone do,
00:44:26or has it ever happened to you where someone said,
00:44:27a happy birthday?
00:44:28And you go, oh yeah, you too.
00:44:29- That's actually a Brian Regan joke.
00:44:31- Is it?
00:44:31- Do you know who that is?
00:44:32- No.
00:44:33- Yeah, when someone says something, you go, you too.
00:44:34And you're like, oh yeah.
00:44:35Yeah, that's just that innate feeling of like,
00:44:38I better give them what they gave me.
00:44:39- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:44:41You do know that you're kind of the inversion
00:44:43of most people's self-work, right?
00:44:45That you having to learn not to say what the thing is,
00:44:50it's like, well, to be honest,
00:44:51like I sort of woke up with a star in my eye
00:44:53and I've got this conversation to do later on today.
00:44:55- What's the opposite?
00:44:56- Good things, how are you?
00:44:58Right, you, from what you're saying to me,
00:45:01it sounds like your set point is I don't do small talk.
00:45:05I'm struggling intensely with small talk
00:45:07and the social mores and the typical dance
00:45:10that most people do in the elevator or with the dog
00:45:14is one that I am having to consciously teach myself to do
00:45:18to understand that these are the mannerisms
00:45:20of just like normal human shallow communication.
00:45:24So most people have to do the opposite.
00:45:26They have to de-train that stuff.
00:45:28- Well, a kid does that, it's like a child.
00:45:32Like a child you say, please, you have to condition.
00:45:36- No.
00:45:37- Yeah, well then we're not gonna go to the strip club
00:45:40or whatever, like you have to teach kids to do stuff.
00:45:45And there's pros and cons to that.
00:45:47A lot of people say I love kids
00:45:48'cause they'll just tell you the truth.
00:45:51I don't believe that telling the truth
00:45:53is an excuse to be unkind.
00:45:55There's definitely tact to that,
00:45:57but like not telling the truth
00:46:00because you're afraid of how somebody might receive you,
00:46:03I think is a very selfish act.
00:46:06I think that when people say things like,
00:46:09well, some people will diagnose themselves
00:46:11as a people pleaser and they've allowed themselves to believe
00:46:13because of the term that what they're doing
00:46:15is pleasing the other person.
00:46:16But what I think that they're doing is that's what you do.
00:46:19- No, no, no, what you're gonna say
00:46:21is they're pleasing themselves.
00:46:23- Yes. - They're protecting themselves.
00:46:24- Yeah, I wanna make sure that this person doesn't see me
00:46:28in a bad way, as opposed to allowing them to see me as I am.
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00:47:39Such a great definition.
00:47:42I think that's really wonderful.
00:47:43I think you're right.
00:47:44I think that people, a large portion of the motivation
00:47:48of people-pleasing is not to,
00:47:50it is to make sure that the other person is okay,
00:47:52but it doesn't end there.
00:47:53- It's making sure that they're okay with you.
00:47:55To make sure that they're okay so that you can be okay.
00:47:58- And I think a great test of that would be,
00:48:01hey, I don't want to tell him
00:48:02that he has a booger in his nose.
00:48:04That's not my job.
00:48:05Maybe the person who does his makeup will.
00:48:06And when the makeup person tells you,
00:48:08I'm not thinking like, oh no, I'm sorry.
00:48:10I'm thinking, I'm glad they said it.
00:48:11So it's not the information that you're receiving
00:48:13that's going to not please you.
00:48:15It's I'm the one who's delivering it.
00:48:17And again, there's tact to this.
00:48:19Sometimes I don't owe everybody my truth.
00:48:21I don't need to tell you everything.
00:48:23I have found through originally a lack of awareness
00:48:28and then through making jokes that,
00:48:30oh, there are ways of maybe delivering things
00:48:33to where it's more palatable.
00:48:36I don't know how you're going to receive this information.
00:48:39I don't want to make my choice
00:48:41based on how you're going to receive it.
00:48:43I want to make my choice based on,
00:48:44do I think this is valuable information for this person?
00:48:47And the only guiding star I have for that is,
00:48:50would I want to know that?
00:48:51If I would want to know that,
00:48:53but there it goes again where I also want to,
00:48:56hey, I want to leave my hat here.
00:48:57Like I want to set boundaries.
00:48:59- Also, you're not representative of everybody else.
00:49:01Would you want to know that?
00:49:02Yes, but if you are as non-fungible as it might seem,
00:49:06you can't use your theory of mind to be,
00:49:09well, I would want it therefore they,
00:49:10and it's like, yeah, but you're not them and they're not you.
00:49:12- I think at a certain point
00:49:13with us being imperfect humans,
00:49:16there are just ways of calibrating yourself
00:49:19to like, you could only police so many things.
00:49:22And that's where the acceptance is.
00:49:24I am going to annoy people.
00:49:26I'm going to bother people.
00:49:27I'm not saying fuck them, who cares?
00:49:28I'm saying, I'm trying not to,
00:49:30but I'm only going to put so much attribute points
00:49:33into me recognizing when you're annoyed,
00:49:35especially when I go up to the conversation and I say,
00:49:38I'm a little high, I'm doing bits.
00:49:40If you don't want to do bits, I'm out of here.
00:49:42If you do-- - Which again,
00:49:43is the disclaimer bit.
00:49:44That's why the disclaimer bits are the one sheet.
00:49:46I think that it's a really, really lovely way to frame it,
00:49:48that you do have an obligation
00:49:52to be like as nice as you can be,
00:49:56but like no nicer than like you're able to be.
00:50:00Like you're not supposed to turn yourself into a pretzel,
00:50:02desperately trying to be able
00:50:03to like make this other person feel impeached.
00:50:06- Yeah, by default.
00:50:07And then there's a, they just got out of a relationship.
00:50:10They're sad, their parent is sick.
00:50:12- Okay, I'm going to have to tune this up.
00:50:13I need to invest a little bit more.
00:50:15- It's constantly, yeah.
00:50:16- Yeah, and you're calibrating that way.
00:50:18- One thing that makes me think
00:50:19about the dog walking scenario.
00:50:21I lived in New York for a month this summer
00:50:22and I fucking, I thought it was so brilliant.
00:50:24I've never been there before.
00:50:25And there was a like classic New York dog park
00:50:28on the upper East side, like East 83rd street.
00:50:31And it's, when you're talking about the dog walking thing,
00:50:33it just makes me think about that.
00:50:34It's like fall, it's sort of walking,
00:50:36and there's a strip of a hundred yards.
00:50:39It's not big, it's New York.
00:50:40A hundred yard bit where someone might have a conversation
00:50:43for 90 seconds in that.
00:50:47One thing that you do have
00:50:49as part of this sort of mutually aware,
00:50:52I know that you know that we have the time
00:50:54that it can't be the thing.
00:50:55- I already know what you're saying.
00:50:57- You need to know that if you open up the fucking chasm
00:51:01of, well, you know, recently actually my sister
00:51:04or like you say a thing, so what's going on with you?
00:51:08If you give that, it's like, oh, well no, let me tell.
00:51:10And you go, I didn't want to lie
00:51:12and just say, good, how are you?
00:51:14But also I do not have the time to invest
00:51:17to be able to tumble down this fucking rabbit hole,
00:51:21this Alice in Wonderland cathedral of bullshit down here
00:51:25in order to have the conversation that would be truthful.
00:51:28So sometimes I think the social mores are there
00:51:31almost in the same way as like that is
00:51:34or waving somebody across a junction.
00:51:36It's even less information than you think it is.
00:51:40- What is that with the less information?
00:51:43How are you doing? I'm good, how are you?
00:51:44- Right. - Fine, thanks.
00:51:45Like that is, it's almost the same as flashing somebody
00:51:50across with your lights in a car.
00:51:52- When people say, how are you doing?
00:51:53And I don't want to talk about it,
00:51:55I say, hi back.
00:51:58And sometimes if it's not as in passing, how are you doing?
00:52:03I'm in a little bit of a mood.
00:52:04I don't want to get into it, but I'm okay.
00:52:06Like just letting him know.
00:52:07That's where I've like discovered where I could feel
00:52:10like I'm satisfying your rules while not compromising mine.
00:52:15And by rules, I just mean way of life.
00:52:18But yeah, that's the thing.
00:52:21That's the kissing on a first date.
00:52:24Is it like, are you good?
00:52:26Thanks, how are you?
00:52:27Or are you just not wanting to get into it?
00:52:29Going in for a first kiss is constantly a scary thing.
00:52:35My reaction to that type of fear
00:52:38isn't the same as it used to be,
00:52:40but that still there's that moment of like,
00:52:42do you want to be doing this?
00:52:44You know?
00:52:45And I feel that way, you know, I recognize it right now.
00:52:50Like I'm not worried by this,
00:52:52but you and I have made a commitment
00:52:54to talk for 60 to 120 minutes.
00:52:56And whether or not you think this is going well,
00:52:58you're going to continue.
00:53:00- Is he continuing because he feels like he has to?
00:53:03- It's not a worry.
00:53:03It's just an awareness of it.
00:53:05So like it is what it is.
00:53:06And that's what being a professional is.
00:53:06- How do you detach the emotion from that?
00:53:09- By knowing that I'll never know the answer to it.
00:53:12- Well, if you ask you would.
00:53:14- I don't, whatever you tell me,
00:53:16because I don't know you yet.
00:53:17And we're still fucking with condoms.
00:53:18I don't know if you'll be telling me the truth.
00:53:20Are you wanting to, as the host of this show,
00:53:24manage my expectations and feelings
00:53:26to get what you believe is the best out of me?
00:53:28Or are-
00:53:29- I'm not demoralizing you by saying,
00:53:30this is a car crash, or this is great.
00:53:32- Or even assuming that that's demoralizing.
00:53:33Some people might want that.
00:53:35- Ed from the call again.
00:53:36Like, oh, he told me in a little bit.
00:53:38He was like, yeah, actually we do need to,
00:53:40can we shift you to the left a little bit?
00:53:41Or can we move the fucking hat out or whatever?
00:53:43Oh, he told me something that's,
00:53:44and I suppose this is a stress test.
00:53:47It's a little truth test of,
00:53:50oh, is this person prepared to tell me something
00:53:52that might in the wrong hands be something
00:53:54that makes somebody upset?
00:53:55Two interesting ideas on that.
00:53:58The same friend whose mom stops fights
00:54:02in the middle of the street.
00:54:02- Who makes whatever flan.
00:54:04- Yeah, yeah, yeah, makes an acceptable flan.
00:54:07He asked me at his 30th birthday last year,
00:54:11he said, who's your best friend in the world?
00:54:13I was like, bit of a weird question after age like 12.
00:54:18And he said, okay, let me reframe it for you.
00:54:22Who can you sit with in silence without the need to fill it?
00:54:25And who can you speak to with the least amount of filter?
00:54:28I was like, ooh, that's cool.
00:54:30Like both ends of communication, both silence and talking,
00:54:35which of those feel the most unencumbered,
00:54:39like the most frictionless?
00:54:41Just sit in fucking silence next to each other on a train,
00:54:44not even reading or using our phones or whatever,
00:54:46not feel the need to.
00:54:48- That's a direct analogy to the not having sex with somebody
00:54:51until you feel safe enough to be able to tell them
00:54:54I have performance anxiety.
00:54:56You know what I mean?
00:54:56That's a more insecure example of it.
00:54:58But yeah, what you're saying is who's your best friend
00:55:01is a hard thing to answer,
00:55:02but who do you feel safest with isn't.
00:55:04And that's, I mean, I know I've said this as jokes,
00:55:08but that's really, and I don't mean this directly literally,
00:55:12but like people who grew up watching The Simpsons.
00:55:15It's not just watching The Simpsons, but really, really,
00:55:18I really, there's two things, there's two like tests.
00:55:22You don't need to pass either of them,
00:55:23but it's valuable information.
00:55:24And it's not just people that watch The Simpsons,
00:55:25it's people that chose to, they like this type of humor.
00:55:28People that think farting is funny
00:55:30and people who watch The Simpsons,
00:55:31I think are genuinely nice, innocent people.
00:55:35When people don't think farting is funny,
00:55:40there maybe is some trauma.
00:55:42I know that there are, I have some female friends
00:55:45that have issues with the way that their mom receives them
00:55:50and they better, they need to be beautiful.
00:55:52They need to be a certain thing
00:55:53that the mother believes is what makes a woman.
00:55:56Bummer, pun not intended.
00:55:59However, when you think it's just gross or whatever,
00:56:02and yeah, of course it's gross.
00:56:04I'm not saying, do you think farting is something
00:56:06that you want me to be doing on your face all the time.
00:56:08I'm asking you if you think it's funny.
00:56:11And if you don't think it's funny,
00:56:12I know that we're not compatible.
00:56:17I know it.
00:56:18I know it.
00:56:19- You're saying that the tip of the spear
00:56:20of your social Venn diagram crossing over
00:56:24is Simpsons and funny farting.
00:56:26- You know what, to be a little bit more fair,
00:56:28you don't have to think farting is funny.
00:56:30I've never been in, and this wasn't a conscious choice.
00:56:32I've never been in a relationship
00:56:33with somebody who didn't laugh at farts.
00:56:35I don't think that's a coincidence.
00:56:37But it's not that you don't think farting is funny
00:56:38as much as if you think farting is gross.
00:56:41Like if we're sitting around
00:56:42and I have to go to the bathroom to fart,
00:56:45I'll get 40,000 steps a day.
00:56:47You know, what do you want me-
00:56:48- Are you a big farter?
00:56:49- Who isn't?
00:56:52- Well, I guess it depends what your baseline
00:56:55for big farting is.
00:56:57- Exactly.
00:56:58And whatever your baseline is, come on over.
00:57:00Just change your clothes and sit on a blanket.
00:57:02- Okay.
00:57:02- Whatever you fart, if you fart 10 times-
00:57:05- How do you feel about farting?
00:57:07Because that's kind of turned inside clothes into outside.
00:57:10It's actually turned inside clothes
00:57:11into inner you inside clothes.
00:57:13- Yeah.
00:57:14- How's that feel on the couch?
00:57:16- Yeah.
00:57:16If you fart on my couch,
00:57:22how'd that feel?
00:57:28You know, it feels good to fart.
00:57:30- It does, but how do you and your couch fart?
00:57:33- Fine, it's farting.
00:57:35- Hang on, I do feel like we need to-
00:57:38- Because farting isn't outdoor clothes,
00:57:39those are indoor clothes.
00:57:40- Right, but they are now contaminated with the inside of me.
00:57:45- They're not, your pants aren't off.
00:57:46If you pulled off your pants and farted,
00:57:50I would say, would you fart on the blanket?
00:57:52- Right, okay, so there's a-
00:57:53- It's coughing in a mask.
00:57:55- And I consider underpants in pants and 94, yes.
00:57:58- So pants are like fart condoms.
00:57:59- I've been saying it for weeks.
00:58:02- Pants are fart condoms.
00:58:03- Yeah, it's my merch actually.
00:58:04Imagine.
00:58:07- Pants are fart condoms.
00:58:08- Come on, that's fucking crazy.
00:58:10- That fucking Oz Perlman, the mentalist.
00:58:12Wait, I knew I was gonna go here.
00:58:13I think you need to reassess this.
00:58:17I don't want to contribute to your blanket anxiety.
00:58:20- Contribute, but go on.
00:58:21- British.
00:58:22- Disfarted.
00:58:26- Why are you laughing?
00:58:28- I think you really need to check yourself on this.
00:58:33I think that there are far more microscopic poo particles.
00:58:37- Oh, I know.
00:58:38- Getting through pants and jeans,
00:58:42onto the blanket and into the couch.
00:58:43- I have thought about this.
00:58:44- It's not zero.
00:58:45- No, it's not.
00:58:46It's inevitable.
00:58:47- Yeah.
00:58:48- They're farting.
00:58:49- You were worried about the sweat from the gym clothes.
00:58:53- Like I said, it's not that logical.
00:58:54It's not about the sweat. - I understand,
00:58:55but I just, I want you to try and be consistent.
00:58:59- Okay, may I?
00:59:00Because you're playfully challenging me and I'm all for it.
00:59:03Before you go into my bathroom,
00:59:05I am going to tell you before you flush,
00:59:07please close the toilet seat.
00:59:08- Ooh, because you don't want it to be atomized?
00:59:11- Correct.
00:59:12- What if it's only pee?
00:59:13- It's closed.
00:59:15Please, just, it's not that big of an ask.
00:59:17- You could be, you could just fix this
00:59:18with a Japanese toilet.
00:59:20- I try not to, to have, it's just,
00:59:25I don't have a Japanese toilet.
00:59:27- Okay, maybe that would be, you know,
00:59:28just to consider for future.
00:59:30- Also, I was going to make a joke,
00:59:31but I'm realizing I don't even know
00:59:33what a Japanese toilet is.
00:59:34- Is that one of those heated things to automate it?
00:59:36It's got the built-in bum spray.
00:59:38- Oh yeah, they're amazing.
00:59:39With the bidet and stuff?
00:59:40- Yes.
00:59:41- Yeah, I want to get one.
00:59:42- Yeah, and that would fix this problem.
00:59:43- No, it wouldn't.
00:59:44- Wait.
00:59:45- I've pissed and shit in them.
00:59:47I've come in a few. - And they don't close?
00:59:48- Yeah, they don't close.
00:59:49They close, some of them close,
00:59:51but you do your thing, you flush,
00:59:54maybe it's closing as there's flushing.
00:59:55- You're worried that there's,
00:59:57it's like Indiana Jones sneaking under the door
00:59:59as it comes down.
01:00:00Whoop, he grabs his hat,
01:00:00but instead he's flicked poop particles out.
01:00:03Okay.
01:00:04- Which also is another piece of it.
01:00:05(laughing)
01:00:08So I want to control the poop particles
01:00:11and the pee particles in certain places.
01:00:13- But you're controlling it in the room
01:00:16which has the most sterile, lowest amount of soft furnishing.
01:00:19- Here's my logic.
01:00:21If you have to fart, you're going to fart.
01:00:23You're just going to try and hide it from me.
01:00:25- What if it's gratuitous?
01:00:26What if you can, you know that they're forcing them out?
01:00:29- It's probably going to be funnier.
01:00:31- So you can offset.
01:00:33- I know that you're going to fart.
01:00:36It's not a matter of fart, don't fart.
01:00:37It's just, let's see it.
01:00:40Let's see it.
01:00:41- See it?
01:00:42- On my podcast, yes.
01:00:44- You see it?
01:00:45- We do a lot of anime.
01:00:47Like my podcast is one that you have to,
01:00:49you don't have, I watch it.
01:00:52There's-
01:00:52- I like the Street Fighter selection thing.
01:00:54I enjoyed when you were doing that.
01:00:55- Oh, thank you.
01:00:56I didn't mean you in particular.
01:00:56I just meant like, I want it to be digested with the visuals
01:00:59because we do a lot of stuff, including animations.
01:01:02People, when people go like this even,
01:01:04I add a little fart and a little shit that comes out
01:01:06and it stays there for a second.
01:01:07Like I'm a little boy.
01:01:09I think it's really fun and funny.
01:01:11Yeah, it doesn't, you know, and it's not that logical.
01:01:14Like I have a dog, I got a dog for a few reasons.
01:01:17Two of that that I'll explain that are relevant is one,
01:01:20I thought it would help me with my OCD
01:01:21because my ex-girlfriend, I was obsessed with her dog.
01:01:25And when she would bring it over, for whatever reason,
01:01:28the rules didn't apply to him.
01:01:30Like I was okay with it.
01:01:31- Outdoor dog, indoor dog.
01:01:33- We would wipe his paws before he comes in,
01:01:35but you wouldn't wipe his butt, his belly,
01:01:37he would lay on the ground.
01:01:38Like he's on the stuff, it's okay,
01:01:40because the alternative is him not on the bed with us.
01:01:43- Or having to bathe him every time he's come in.
01:01:46- It ain't gonna happen.
01:01:47So I realized, wow, this is immersion therapy in a way.
01:01:52Another reason I got a dog is because,
01:01:55especially 'cause I work so much on my podcast
01:01:57and I do a lot of editing and I would go,
01:01:59if I don't have shows,
01:02:00I would go three days without leaving my house.
01:02:02And I didn't get out of the house.
01:02:03I'm like, this was an excuse to get out of the house.
01:02:06I'm out of the house a lot more now.
01:02:09I used to, once you go outside, there are outdoor clothes,
01:02:12but then I'm like, I go, I walk, I just won't sit down.
01:02:14I've allowed myself to go outside,
01:02:16maybe even in the rain and come back in.
01:02:18So like, I'm getting better by challenging myself
01:02:22and the dog let me do that.
01:02:23Farting is, you know, the dog could be on the blanket.
01:02:30A fart is fine if you're wearing a condom.
01:02:33- Right, okay.
01:02:34So farts are the dog of the indoor outdoor world.
01:02:38- Also, if it's funny enough, you know what I'm saying?
01:02:41Like, I feel there's a hack to shame
01:02:45and that's finding a bit in it, right?
01:02:47Like, I'm embarrassed about this thing,
01:02:49but if I could say something funny about it, I don't know.
01:02:52Is that because now I feel valuable and I use it as a tool?
01:02:54Is it because I now am being seen in a way
01:02:56that isn't the way that I thought I would be seen?
01:02:59Is it just the connection I have
01:03:01with somebody who could relate to it?
01:03:02Whatever it is, if you can make a bit out of something,
01:03:05it's easier, right?
01:03:10And I feel this way.
01:03:11I mean, of course, then there's like,
01:03:12oh, you're joking all the time.
01:03:14I'm not saying make everything a joke.
01:03:15What I'm saying is if there's an uncomfortable conversation,
01:03:19there is craft involved into either saying things
01:03:24like setting expectations properly.
01:03:26Hey, there's something that's been on my mind.
01:03:27It's not that deep, but it's something that bothers me.
01:03:30We don't have to talk about it now,
01:03:31but do you have five minutes of space
01:03:33I could let you know something
01:03:34that I've been feeling a little embarrassed about?
01:03:36It lets the other person make a choice to do that.
01:03:38Sure, and that's a great tool.
01:03:39Another one is that's not as exhausting
01:03:42and asking so much of the other person,
01:03:44especially if it doesn't really involve them is,
01:03:46hey, I have a sty in my eye and I brought sunglasses
01:03:49and I might want to do this.
01:03:50And is this, you know what?
01:03:51Could we just do glasses?
01:03:52Could we do sunglasses for a little?
01:03:54- Of course. - Cool.
01:03:55And now the bit is we're wearing sunglasses,
01:03:58but that made it easier for me to admit to you
01:04:01something that might've been hard to say.
01:04:03Now that wasn't hard to say, but like farting,
01:04:07a buddy of mine, shout out to Andy Kozel once said,
01:04:11"Buttholes have the best comedic timing."
01:04:13And I think that's so funny and true.
01:04:15You ever hear a fart and you think like,
01:04:17"I didn't think that was a good time for that."
01:04:20And if so, it's the best time for that.
01:04:22Oh, I was going to say we're not compatible, but yes.
01:04:25- Ah, I see.
01:04:27- If you don't think that that fart was funny,
01:04:29you might be a redneck.
01:04:32Do you have that over there?
01:04:33- No. - Okay.
01:04:34- No, we have, what do we have in the UK?
01:04:36We have chavs, don't we?
01:04:38- You might be a chad.
01:04:39- Chav. - Chav.
01:04:40- I don't know chav, I know chad.
01:04:41- Chav.
01:04:42So the only equivalent we have of kind of hick.
01:04:45So imagine Gypsy without the caravan.
01:04:48- You're not supposed to say Gypsy or hick,
01:04:50just so you know.
01:04:51- You just did. - I did it.
01:04:52- Redneck. - Redneck.
01:04:54- Is hick allowed?
01:04:55- I mean, you'll see the comments.
01:04:57- Well, look, I'm like somebody who hasn't had
01:05:00whatever reckoning around culture and class has occurred.
01:05:04- I'm fine, I'm insulated because of the British accent,
01:05:07hopefully until I get canceled.
01:05:08I was on Tucker Carlson this week.
01:05:10I'm like the fucking, I survived that, that's okay.
01:05:13- Has it come out yet?
01:05:13- Yep.
01:05:14- And you survived it? - It was Monday.
01:05:15It was the day that like all hell broke loose
01:05:18and the entire internet decided to point the sites
01:05:22at Tucker, Candice and Nick Fuentes all at the same time.
01:05:25And I was like, I just had a conversation about
01:05:28what I think men should be doing maybe
01:05:30and how they're struggling a bit in school and work and stuff.
01:05:35And there was this huge crossfire
01:05:37and I had to do this.
01:05:38There were all the fucking bullets flying over the top
01:05:41of my head. - Is that a concern for you?
01:05:43Or is it just something you noticed?
01:05:44- It's just something I noticed.
01:05:45I mean, I was on set all day.
01:05:46I had two wonderful, Monday was fucking brilliant.
01:05:48I had Trevor Wallace in, I think it's great.
01:05:50And it's the first time I got to meet him, it was so much fun.
01:05:51And we went for like two and a bit hours.
01:05:53And then I had Huberman for like three and a half hours
01:05:54and we got to chat before and chat after.
01:05:56I was like, I'm fucking sweet.
01:05:59And you come out and you go, oh,
01:06:01oh, I'll deal with that later.
01:06:03Like whatever the fucking, but no, it's fine.
01:06:07I wanted to tell you a story about Jon Bellion.
01:06:09Do you know who that is?
01:06:09- The name sounds familiar, but no.
01:06:11- Musician, recording artist, producer behind
01:06:13Justin Bieber and Rihanna, like Ed Sheeran, gazillion plays,
01:06:16like billions and billions and billions of plays.
01:06:19I had him on the show in New York.
01:06:21He told me this story about his son.
01:06:23It made me think when you were talking like,
01:06:24this is why kids are great
01:06:25because kids don't have the filter.
01:06:26And I think some of the things that I'm like hearing
01:06:29and feeling from our conversation today is this balance
01:06:33between growth and self-acceptance,
01:06:37between being true to yourself and helping somebody,
01:06:40like being kind, like being nice to somebody,
01:06:42which doesn't always mean necessarily telling them
01:06:44what they want to hear.
01:06:46Kids kind of sit interestingly, like skewed off to one side
01:06:49where they do very much tell the truth,
01:06:51but can also like, and the innocence allows them
01:06:55to get away with more, which is interesting.
01:06:57'Cause I wonder whether if all of us spoke more like kids,
01:06:59we would be able to get away with more.
01:07:00- I think there's something about,
01:07:01it's a projection of the innocence and the intention.
01:07:03I have misophonia and when people are chewing, it sounds.
01:07:07Sounds, it drives me fucking nuts.
01:07:08- The sound of eating.
01:07:09- When a dog is doing it, for some reason,
01:07:11not only am I okay with it, I love it.
01:07:13And I don't know-
01:07:14- Oh, don't you like them licking buttholes as well?
01:07:17- He was licking his penis and the sound of it.
01:07:18That was a Kristen Bell episode, did you see?
01:07:20He was licking his penis and there's something
01:07:22about that sound where it's just so cute to me.
01:07:26When a human licks his penis, I just, you know,
01:07:29why am I watching this?
01:07:31- Why is Marilyn Manson in my bedroom?
01:07:32- Isn't that funny?
01:07:33I've talked about that recently too.
01:07:34That fake rumor that everyone thought he took out a rib
01:07:36so he could blow himself.
01:07:38Everybody around the fucking world knew that.
01:07:40- I haven't thought about that for a decade.
01:07:42I'm so glad that we're on this,
01:07:43we're tapped into the astral around the same-
01:07:44- And that was pre-COVID.
01:07:45- That was pre-COVID, yeah.
01:07:47Imagine how much fun you would have had.
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01:08:56So, John does this show.
01:08:59He does two stadium shows in Long Island.
01:09:01He doesn't tour for five or six years,
01:09:04comes back, writes this album
01:09:06and has dedicated his life to his family now
01:09:09whilst also still doing the producer thing,
01:09:11but he's not being front facing.
01:09:13And people come over to his house
01:09:15so that he has his limited time away from his family
01:09:18and his kids whilst also like living his dream
01:09:20and doing his thing as possible.
01:09:22So, he's curated his life around his family
01:09:23and decides to do two stadium shows.
01:09:25I think it's on back-to-back nights.
01:09:26He only rehearses for three days
01:09:28so that he spends his little time away from his kids
01:09:30as possible.
01:09:31His new album is "Father Figure."
01:09:33So, it's all about being a good dad
01:09:34and he had this amazing dad.
01:09:35And he's on Prime now.
01:09:36(laughing)
01:09:38And he does the show
01:09:41and it's like 15 minutes drive from his house
01:09:44and he's brought his kids there and his sons there,
01:09:47maybe like five, something like that.
01:09:49And he's got a little playpen at the back with his toys.
01:09:53And he's thinking to himself,
01:09:55"I haven't toured for ages.
01:09:57"I haven't put the shows on.
01:09:58"I've dedicated so much time.
01:09:59"My family's gonna be there.
01:10:00"My friends are gonna be there."
01:10:01And all this stuff, super excited.
01:10:03He finishes up the show after having done this
01:10:05and he goes to go and see his son.
01:10:06He says, "So, what do you think of the show?"
01:10:08And he went, "I didn't like it."
01:10:11I went, "Why?"
01:10:13"Well, you sang the first song
01:10:17"and then you just kept singing.
01:10:19"You just kept on singing more and more songs."
01:10:23And I thought, "When's dad gonna be done?
01:10:25"So, he'll come play with me."
01:10:26And you're like, "That's someone just saying
01:10:29"what they fucking want."
01:10:30- But also, the kid thinks that the show is bad
01:10:33because he didn't get his dad playing with him.
01:10:35He was giving the wrong critique.
01:10:37He wasn't critiquing the show.
01:10:38He was critiquing that he was doing a show.
01:10:40I don't like this kid.
01:10:41(laughing)
01:10:44I don't like this kid.
01:10:45Now, Huberman, I saw at the airport recently
01:10:48and he saw my dog and he was playing with my dog a bit.
01:10:50- Oh, you have emotional support credentials for your dog?
01:10:53- Um, I don't want it, that's none of your business.
01:10:55But I have my dog with me.
01:10:56- I wanna know how you, are you smuggling it?
01:10:58- I'm doing it all the right ways.
01:11:00- Okay, this sounds like an area for investigation.
01:11:03- So, I have the dog and Huberman likes dogs
01:11:09and he's playing-- - Loves dogs.
01:11:10- My dog is, it's insane, it's insane.
01:11:12He's perfect. - Yep.
01:11:13- And he's right, blah, blah, blah, blah.
01:11:15And I had this feeling of like,
01:11:17not that I'm somebody who he needs to know who I am,
01:11:21but I did think like, if you knew who I was,
01:11:23you would probably wanna do my podcast.
01:11:25And I didn't say anything to him the same--
01:11:27- You didn't pitch him?
01:11:28- No.
01:11:29- Didn't you use the dog as like a thirst trap?
01:11:31- No. - To try and--
01:11:32- He came over to me.
01:11:33- Uh-huh.
01:11:34- But I didn't ask him to come on my podcast
01:11:36the same reason why I wouldn't ask a woman
01:11:38who I just met for the first time at the gym
01:11:40to go on a date.
01:11:42It's not right.
01:11:44- How do you think about tact?
01:11:45Oh, you're in the city and the world,
01:11:48the industry of networking, business stuff.
01:11:52- I'm all for asking.
01:11:53I mean, I think we have the same agent.
01:11:54I mean, I could just ask my agent to forward an email
01:11:56then say, "Hey, we met at the airport."
01:11:58Like, maybe I'll do that, I haven't.
01:12:00Is that what you're asking?
01:12:01Like, I'm all for asking people for things.
01:12:03- Yeah, just again, we've talked about
01:12:07kind of the emotional dynamic of this,
01:12:10like within the emotional world,
01:12:12but there's also the professional world.
01:12:14And the rules are a little--
01:12:17- It's an uncomfortable feeling.
01:12:18I feel 'cause I book myself and I do this,
01:12:21I feel like there's producer Rick
01:12:22and then there's like comedian Rick.
01:12:23And producer Rick feels like it's high school
01:12:26and I'm following up with people that I don't want to.
01:12:28Not that I don't want to, but I don't want to bother you.
01:12:30So like asking Huberman to be on my podcast at the airport
01:12:34when he's liking my dog,
01:12:35it would be like me going in for a first kiss
01:12:37before I have enough data.
01:12:38It's like, what if he says yes?
01:12:41And he just feels like, "Oh, I don't know."
01:12:43I'm like, "Do you want to be here?"
01:12:46Like,
01:12:47this idea,
01:12:49men, you know, women are scared a lot.
01:12:55Like women go through life in a different way
01:12:57traditionally than men of just like,
01:12:59like the analogy I think of is like,
01:13:01I went into a coffee shop and there was this big dog
01:13:05and he wasn't even showing his teeth.
01:13:07It was just like, this dog could do some damage.
01:13:09And the person that was holding the leash
01:13:10was talking to somebody else and not really paying attention.
01:13:12And to get in, I had to go around this dog.
01:13:14I wasn't necessarily afraid of the dog,
01:13:16but I was looking at the dog the entire time.
01:13:19And I really thought to myself,
01:13:20I think this is how women feel around men.
01:13:22And I say this because like, wait, hold on.
01:13:25Huberman, I'm trying to think of the analogy.
01:13:27I'm now forgetting what I'm saying.
01:13:29And I don't want to 'cause I feel like
01:13:30I want to talk about this.
01:13:31Why am I saying that women are afraid?
01:13:38Anyway, I just think we need to do better.
01:13:40And I think that musician needs to tell his son,
01:13:42like, you know.
01:13:44- Shape up.
01:13:45- You know.
01:13:46- I think he was saying, asking too much,
01:13:49the fear of following up producer Rick, comedian Rick.
01:13:52- Yes.
01:13:53Yes.
01:13:56- Let's move on.
01:13:59- You know what?
01:14:00We're going to move on because I learned
01:14:01that's what you're supposed to do.
01:14:02- You can just interrupt.
01:14:03- Oh, but I loved it.
01:14:04I loved what I was thinking.
01:14:05You would have fucking freaked if you heard it.
01:14:07- Hate when that happens.
01:14:08How'd you respond to caffeine?
01:14:10- I stopped drinking coffee two years ago
01:14:13because it gets me sometimes too high,
01:14:16but that's not why I stopped.
01:14:17It was because at one out of 20, I would get anxious.
01:14:20And I started taking this, I'm sure this is fantastic.
01:14:23I've heard nothing but the best from Nutanix.
01:14:26Oh wow, it has L-theanine as well.
01:14:28- Twice as much as a sleep supplement.
01:14:29So it might be, anyway, let's not roll the dice.
01:14:33I'm one in 20 on fucking.
01:14:34- But I take a drink called Magic Mine.
01:14:36Do you know about that?
01:14:37- I did a little green shot.
01:14:39That's got caffeine in it.
01:14:39- Yeah, so it's a, for whatever reason,
01:14:42it's the right amount for me.
01:14:44What made you ask about caffeine?
01:14:45- Just, I was like, oh, maybe you need a little tick tick tick
01:14:48just a little tickle.
01:14:49- A little more or a little less?
01:14:50- I don't know.
01:14:51Have you had any?
01:14:52- I took one before this.
01:14:52- Ah, that might be it.
01:14:53Well, I don't know.
01:14:54It's weird when you lose your train of thought like that
01:14:56because you go, the solution is either too much
01:15:00or too little caffeine and I don't know which one it is.
01:15:01- I think I just got into my body just the empathy I have
01:15:05for how difficult it is for women in this world
01:15:06to have to not only show up as themselves,
01:15:09but to have 20% of their brain making sure
01:15:12that they can stay alive.
01:15:14Meanwhile, guys are just walking around
01:15:16and getting their cocks sucked and drinking caffeine
01:15:18like it's a, you know, on a Thursday.
01:15:19- Well, it depends who you are, I suppose.
01:15:21Yeah, I think there is definitely an asymmetry.
01:15:24It's interesting that-
01:15:25- So I didn't want to approach Huberman like a woman.
01:15:30- Well, that might've worked.
01:15:31I've been a fan of his, I don't want to call it a fan.
01:15:34I've been, I mean, yes, but I've been listening before,
01:15:38not even listening, like reading his stuff.
01:15:40My ex who lives in London,
01:15:41I spent a lot of time in London, love being in London.
01:15:44She turned me on to Huberman, I think in 2019.
01:15:47And there's like so many things that are now just like,
01:15:50I just used to go out in the sunlight in the mornings.
01:15:53Like, I know that's like a big trope at this point,
01:15:55but like, 'cause of that, there were so many things
01:15:59learning about histamines and nightshades.
01:16:03And there's so many things, and I'm just like,
01:16:04this is a guy that has now gotten really successful
01:16:07for having an audience appreciate his knowledge.
01:16:11So I'm like, I really like this guy.
01:16:14You know what I'm saying?
01:16:15So it's like seeing a girl that you really like,
01:16:18where it's like, I don't want to just, I don't know.
01:16:21I feel like it's not appropriate here.
01:16:23I'm not saying I'm right.
01:16:24- There's a nice amount of reverence there.
01:16:26You're like, oh, I'm gonna treat this one properly.
01:16:29I mean, you know this, and for the girls out there,
01:16:32I would wager fewer relationships start
01:16:38if you have sex on the first date
01:16:39than if you have sex on the fourth date or the 10th date
01:16:42or something like that.
01:16:43That giving it up too quickly
01:16:46and sort of being too fast too soon is indicative
01:16:50of how much you care about the relationship overall.
01:16:53Do you think that's a direct, like that's a literal statistic?
01:16:58- I would be-
01:17:00- 'Cause I agree, but sometimes not like-
01:17:05- I just get the sense that there's a few dynamics
01:17:09at play here.
01:17:10First one-
01:17:11- Biological.
01:17:12- We tend to value things that are difficult to get more.
01:17:16Secondly, the time from meeting
01:17:21to getting physically intimate with somebody
01:17:23is usually, if you wait longer,
01:17:27what it suggests is that is not all that you're here for.
01:17:31Just those two.
01:17:32We don't even need to go deeper than that.
01:17:33Like that's enough to carry this dynamic through, I think.
01:17:35It would probably appear in data.
01:17:36- Yeah, my last three relationships were-
01:17:41- Hooked them on the first date?
01:17:42- Well, yeah, but there's more information,
01:17:49which is, it was long distance
01:17:51and we were FaceTiming for months.
01:17:53- Okay.
01:17:54- So the first time we smelt each other
01:17:56and actually we're in the same room.
01:17:58- But you've spoken for 50 hours at this point.
01:18:00- Yeah, and I've learned that I like,
01:18:03even if it's like we're in town,
01:18:06I'm not scared to go on a date,
01:18:08but let's say you and I don't know
01:18:09if we want a podcast with each other.
01:18:11We could find out by doing a podcast
01:18:13or we could FaceTime for a little bit
01:18:15and see if you think farting's funny
01:18:17and if we could go get tested.
01:18:19- That is one of the interesting things
01:18:21about having conversations with people,
01:18:24especially because you don't,
01:18:25if you bin the episode, especially something like this,
01:18:28where you know, we've got the fucking cars
01:18:30and the team and all the rest of it.
01:18:32It's a big, tends to be a big deal.
01:18:34If you're like, oh fuck, that was so bad.
01:18:36But there is no practicing in private.
01:18:39There's no, oh, we'll go through the moves yesterday.
01:18:42- For podcasting? - Yeah.
01:18:43- I think there is.
01:18:44There's a reason that you wanted to have me
01:18:47on the podcast.
01:18:48Not that you still agree with that reason or that you don't,
01:18:50but like you got information.
01:18:52That's what's different about being--
01:18:53- Okay, that's research, but you're right.
01:18:56You are right. - But you can't do,
01:18:57I mean, especially with somebody that doesn't--
01:18:58- You're gonna research this person based on their Instagram.
01:19:00How's this dynamic between us going to go?
01:19:02- It's all data collection.
01:19:02I really believe that dating for the first X period of dates
01:19:07is less about showing a person who you are
01:19:12and them showing who you are and more about,
01:19:15which I don't agree, I don't like this,
01:19:17but it's more about like showing up in a certain way
01:19:21that you're supposed to, and they'll do the same.
01:19:23And then over time that degrades into who you actually are,
01:19:26but you can't show up as you actually are on a first date
01:19:29because they're gonna be like, oh, he farts on a first date.
01:19:31What is he gonna do on the second date?
01:19:33I'm gonna fart again.
01:19:34- How much deeper does this descend?
01:19:35No, no, no, this is as deep as it goes.
01:19:37- Yes. - Unfortunately for you.
01:19:38- So, face timing, I think,
01:19:43and it's not specific to face time.
01:19:44It could be like, if we're not making a commitment
01:19:47to each other and you're with a group of other people
01:19:50and you're getting to see a little dynamic
01:19:52without feeling the pressure of needing
01:19:53to wear a certain outfit and ask how many brothers
01:19:57and sisters you have and get to know the person.
01:20:00I think face timing,
01:20:02'cause you could also always just hang up.
01:20:04- Safety thing is a big deal on that.
01:20:06If you're talking about, oh, well, some part of this is,
01:20:11I mean, I know for a fact girls will say to their friends,
01:20:15this is where we're going, this is the time,
01:20:16this is the place, like you've got my location.
01:20:18If I don't text you by this time,
01:20:20then maybe give me a ring or whatever,
01:20:22because that safety piece is a big part.
01:20:24I imagine that there is a way
01:20:28to be made to feel unsafe over face time,
01:20:31but it's significantly more safe, right?
01:20:34- Yeah, I mean, it's all also when you say safety,
01:20:36it's not just physical safety.
01:20:37There's also just your social battery
01:20:41and your sense of comfort.
01:20:42And depending on the person, if you're not enjoying it,
01:20:45do you just, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:20:47Or do you say things like,
01:20:48I've learned so much about how to communicate with people
01:20:50by editing my podcast.
01:20:52And when I watch myself,
01:20:55I used to when I would get bored in a conversation,
01:20:57not that the other person's boring,
01:20:58not that I was meaning to judge them,
01:21:01but I would just be honest saying,
01:21:02hey, I'm a little bored with this
01:21:04and we talk about something different.
01:21:06Some people, it seemed like they received it well.
01:21:08Some people may be like,
01:21:10oh, and that became the topic of conversation.
01:21:12Then we would talk about communication, whatever.
01:21:15But I would watch myself.
01:21:16And as I'm watching from the audience,
01:21:18I would see I'm not bored
01:21:19what this person is talking about on the monitor,
01:21:23but I was bored in the room.
01:21:25- Do you think it's going on there?
01:21:26- I think it was going on there was I wasn't interested
01:21:30or I missed something
01:21:31and I was wondering if I was in focus or not.
01:21:33And I just like, I'm not connected, right?
01:21:36And I mistook not being connected
01:21:39by meaning I'm not interested.
01:21:41So instead of saying, I'm not interested in this topic,
01:21:43like I would watch myself and be like frustrated,
01:21:46not just about--
01:21:47- I could have enjoyed this in person.
01:21:48- Yes.
01:21:49Well, no, maybe, but not specifically that.
01:21:51It was, I was frustrated.
01:21:52One, that I showed up as somebody who shut somebody down,
01:21:54not meaning to, but I did.
01:21:56But also like, I want to hear what they said
01:21:57and now we never got to it.
01:21:58Like me as the audience wanted to hear more about that.
01:22:01So in moments where I feel that way now,
01:22:04I don't think to myself, this is boring.
01:22:06I think to myself, if it is, we could take it out later.
01:22:08I think to myself, I'm not connected.
01:22:10How can I get connected to this person?
01:22:12Could you say that differently?
01:22:13I don't know what you just said.
01:22:14We say that again, I wasn't listening, whatever it is.
01:22:17But like, yeah, I don't know.
01:22:19Sometimes being bored doesn't mean that they're boring.
01:22:23However, if they are,
01:22:25I got to get out of there as quick as I can.
01:22:28You know what I'm saying?
01:22:29Like this is going to sound how it may.
01:22:35If somebody doesn't make me laugh or teach me something
01:22:40or feed me or make me come, and I don't mean me,
01:22:43I mean the human being, I believe.
01:22:45Then what value are they offering me?
01:22:48Now, not to say if you make me come and that's all you do,
01:22:50that this is a healthy relationship,
01:22:52but I mean this quite literally.
01:22:53If you don't feed somebody, give them, you know,
01:22:56if you're not their boss and they pay you,
01:22:59if there isn't some value that you're offering me,
01:23:04am I just supposed to be a good guy and just be like,
01:23:06no, it's okay, he's a nice guy.
01:23:07I want to listen.
01:23:08- What would you say about a friend of yours
01:23:10who's in a hospital bed and needs looking after?
01:23:12- I don't understand the connection.
01:23:14- That they're unable to really offer you anything?
01:23:16- I don't mean every interaction has to be valuable to me.
01:23:20That, I mean, I would argue that by being able to show up
01:23:23for somebody in a selfish way makes you feel valuable.
01:23:27You know, it's this idea of like when you give to charity,
01:23:29are you doing it 'cause it makes you feel good
01:23:30or 'cause you're helping them?
01:23:32Absolutely both.
01:23:33I'm glad it makes me feel good
01:23:35or they wouldn't get this help.
01:23:36So I don't mean everything I need to be constantly entertained
01:23:39or, you know, constantly validated by something.
01:23:42I just mean in a relationship as a whole.
01:23:44Like, do you have any friends
01:23:45that you were friends with as a kid
01:23:46and they're kind of grandfathered in
01:23:47and like you love this person
01:23:48and you hang out with this person,
01:23:50but whenever you're with them, it's just, this is boring.
01:23:53I'm still friends with this person
01:23:54because I love this person and I care about this person.
01:23:58I'm not excited to be around them and I'm not.
01:24:01It's just a little boring.
01:24:02So like, but when you're just meeting somebody
01:24:04and after three dates or three friendships,
01:24:07I don't know, man.
01:24:09I just like, he doesn't get my jokes.
01:24:10I don't, he doesn't make me laugh.
01:24:12That's okay if he's interesting.
01:24:15Your podcast isn't the funniest podcast I've ever seen.
01:24:19And it's one of the few that I watch and I love your clips.
01:24:23I mean, whoever picks your clips,
01:24:24you know what you guys are doing.
01:24:25But like, I'm interested in what you have to say.
01:24:28Am I learning?
01:24:29Probably.
01:24:29Is it just, oh.
01:24:31Even if it's something I disagree with
01:24:33and it challenges my mind, it's like, I don't know.
01:24:35It's something, it's worth listening to me.
01:24:38So this idea of going out with people
01:24:39or being friends with people that like are boring.
01:24:43And I'm not saying that you're a boring person.
01:24:46I'm saying that I'm bored by you.
01:24:48You know, our frequencies. - A kind of incompatibility.
01:24:50- Yeah, our frequencies.
01:24:51And I, the opposite is I probably annoy the shit out of you
01:24:54and you're not wrong, but why are we just,
01:24:57well, they're nice and why don't you give it a try?
01:25:01So dating is that way too.
01:25:02So I think that when you have a FaceTime with somebody,
01:25:05not that, believe me, I do not need to have a FaceTime.
01:25:07I backwards learned that like, oh, that was interesting.
01:25:12By the time I was on my third FaceTime with this person,
01:25:15which is potentially only 45 minutes of conversations total,
01:25:20which is less than one date, I got,
01:25:22I'm so excited to meet you.
01:25:24And if I wasn't, I don't want to waste my time.
01:25:27- Life's too short for boring friendships in that way.
01:25:30- Yeah, and boring, I don't, I'm skeptical
01:25:32because I've said this once before and I saw a comment
01:25:35that wasn't what I meant and I believed
01:25:37that they received it this way, which was like,
01:25:39well, some people are boring.
01:25:41Like not everybody is a comedian or friends with comedians.
01:25:44I don't mean like you got the best punchlines.
01:25:47I just mean like, are you talking about things
01:25:49that are interesting to me?
01:25:50- Well, here's one way to do it.
01:25:51In fact, let me give you this little essay,
01:25:52which is pretty cool.
01:25:53So Jenny Jerome, who was-
01:25:55- Mr. and Mrs. Jerome's kid.
01:25:57- Winston Churchill's mother.
01:26:00She once dined with both Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli
01:26:03and his rival William Gladstone and consecutive nights.
01:26:06When asked about her impressions of the two men, she said,
01:26:08"When I left the dining room after sitting next to Gladstone,
01:26:11I thought he was the cleverest man in England.
01:26:13But when I sat next to Disraeli,
01:26:14I left feeling like I was the cleverest woman."
01:26:17Some people are interesting.
01:26:20Some people make people feel interesting.
01:26:22It's the difference between being interesting and interested.
01:26:25And this idea I came up with of reverse charisma.
01:26:28Like most people think that they want their stories
01:26:30to be energizing, their aura to be electric or whatever.
01:26:32But what you actually want,
01:26:34and what I find myself being around more than even that,
01:26:38someone who comes in and is, ah, like fucking Jazz Hands,
01:26:42is wow, like I really feel fucking seen here.
01:26:46And maybe this is part of the connection.
01:26:48Maybe it's the frequency thing that you're talking about.
01:26:50But if somebody-
01:26:51- Why do you feel seen
01:26:53when somebody comes into in Jazz Hands?
01:26:55- No, no, no, no, I don't.
01:26:56My point is somebody- - You prefer?
01:26:58- No, somebody that comes in and has this very electric aura,
01:27:01it maybe is, as you said, less boring out there,
01:27:06lots of stories, all the rest of it,
01:27:07like whirlwind of social-
01:27:09- Doesn't leave you feeling seen.
01:27:10- But that's fine.
01:27:12And I like being around those people,
01:27:14but the skillset to be able to be that sort of a person
01:27:17to have that kind of charisma, for want of a better word,
01:27:20I think is typically quite high.
01:27:22And maybe that was what triggered the person
01:27:24who left that comment saying,
01:27:25well, some people are just boring.
01:27:26Maybe they thought that they are that kind of person.
01:27:29I'm a little bit lower energy.
01:27:30I'm a little bit more thoughtful.
01:27:31I'm a bit more shy.
01:27:32I'm a bit more whatever.
01:27:33- Thoughtful isn't boring.
01:27:34- Okay, but if you don't say much, right?
01:27:37Let's say you just don't get the words out that quickly
01:27:40or you don't think that quickly
01:27:41when it comes to like telling, whatever.
01:27:43If somebody feels that,
01:27:44if somebody feels like they might be boring
01:27:47and they're worried that they are,
01:27:48I mean, one thing is to go and have some life experiences
01:27:50and become a little bit more confident
01:27:51in your communication, all the rest of it.
01:27:52And that's great.
01:27:53And you should do that too.
01:27:54But a much quicker route
01:27:56to making people feel comfortable around you
01:27:58and to connecting with people
01:28:00is to just get really good at asking questions.
01:28:02And the bar for that, I think is significantly lower.
01:28:05So if you ask the question, like,
01:28:07how did that make you feel?
01:28:08Or why?
01:28:09Or what did you mean by that?
01:28:11Like as somebody is telling a story,
01:28:14if they're even like remotely compelled
01:28:16by what they're talking about,
01:28:17that is them away for ages.
01:28:19Now you, as a question asker,
01:28:20now have to deal with whether or not
01:28:22that person's interesting to you.
01:28:23And again, this is the compatibility.
01:28:26But if you're someone who thinks like,
01:28:27fuck, like I wish I was more like socially competent
01:28:30or I wish that people, I seem to like people,
01:28:34but I struggle to contribute to the conversation in a way.
01:28:37And I'm worried that I don't have much to talk about.
01:28:39- That right there,
01:28:40that awareness of what they maybe think is a shortcoming
01:28:44is your superpower.
01:28:49So if somebody doesn't know what to say,
01:28:51so they just don't say anything, maybe that is boring.
01:28:55And I use the boring as a blanket statement.
01:28:57I know it's blanket, but if you're,
01:29:01hey guys, you're all so charismatic.
01:29:04And I feel like I have no idea what to say.
01:29:07I am so invested now.
01:29:09I'm interested, like, what do you mean?
01:29:10I didn't even realize this.
01:29:11What are you feeling?
01:29:12I don't know, you guys are doing jokes
01:29:13and I feel like I'm not saying anything.
01:29:15Oh fuck, should we all be quiet?
01:29:17You know, like, should we put on our sunglasses?
01:29:19We could find a game together.
01:29:20- It's interesting that you've got,
01:29:22so what you keep doing,
01:29:23the strategy that you keep going for
01:29:25is calling out the game.
01:29:26So have you ever read "Escaping Flatland"?
01:29:29It's a book from like 1850 or so.
01:29:31It sounds niche as fuck, but you might've heard of it.
01:29:34- Yeah, the book from 1850.
01:29:35- But it's super famous.
01:29:37It's a book about a two-dimensional world.
01:29:40- And you know so many things.
01:29:41I guess it's your job now.
01:29:42- I've just spoken to a thousand people
01:29:44and I'm like the end of a thousand person human centipede.
01:29:47So like what I've got left is nutritionally very non-dense,
01:29:50but there was lots of it.
01:29:52- Great, great analogy.
01:29:54It's actually my shirt.
01:29:56Sorry, I messed up the momentum, go on.
01:30:01- The end, this book is about a two-dimensional world,
01:30:04Flatland, and a three-dimensional sphere
01:30:06comes down to Flatland.
01:30:08And this sphere is a circle,
01:30:10and the circle is able to make itself grow and shrink
01:30:13inside of Flatland and the citizens are amazed.
01:30:15What they don't understand is that this sphere
01:30:17is moving itself through a dimension that they can't see.
01:30:19- It's not getting bigger or smaller,
01:30:20she's getting closer and further away.
01:30:21- Exactly, exactly.
01:30:22What you're doing, at least what it sounds like to me,
01:30:25your preference in terms of conversation style is,
01:30:27or what you would like to see more from some people
01:30:29and your advice is again, like we said
01:30:32with the game of tennis is to almost say,
01:30:33well, why are we using the racket?
01:30:35Why can't we use our feet?
01:30:36Or does the net need to be there at all?
01:30:38Or can we leave the stadium?
01:30:40Like, why don't we hit the ball straight up
01:30:42as opposed to across the net to each other?
01:30:44- You're moving on a dimension that is not within
01:30:47the confines of the game.
01:30:49I think what I'm comparing with myself is,
01:30:52I tend to try and achieve the same thing that you do,
01:30:57but within the confines of the game.
01:30:59I think I have less bravery socially for calling out
01:31:03that sort of stuff than you do.
01:31:04So what I would do, and this is from a decade and a half
01:31:08of running nightclubs,
01:31:09standing in the front door of nightclubs,
01:31:11there is a particular sort of game that needs to be done.
01:31:13You need to do it really, really, really quick.
01:31:15So I need to keep it within this,
01:31:16but like this person's like too drunk.
01:31:18So I need to come up with a way to play the game,
01:31:21but also get them to realize they're not fucking coming in
01:31:23or to get them downstairs before the door staff sees
01:31:26that we can get the five pounds off them,
01:31:27even though they are too drunk to come in
01:31:29or whatever it is that we're doing, right?
01:31:31As a part of that, what I like and what I find fun as a game
01:31:34is to see whether or not I can get the movement
01:31:38of the conversation for the shy person to feel more included
01:31:42or for the extroverted person to shut the fuck up
01:31:45or for the funny person to be more funny or whatever
01:31:48within the rules of the game.
01:31:50And I think that that's the challenge
01:31:51maybe because of insufficient social bravery
01:31:54to break the rule of the game
01:31:56and go and become the sphere sort of growing and shrinking
01:31:59or just, I don't know, preference or whatever.
01:32:01But I'm thinking like, huh,
01:32:03how much do I do what Rick's saying he does here?
01:32:06How much do I like punk the game or call out the game?
01:32:08Like how much do I say what's going on
01:32:10versus try and get the outcome that he's trying to get
01:32:13but within the confines of the game?
01:32:15And I think typically I do the latter.
01:32:17- I want to talk about this for a while.
01:32:19- Okay. - Okay.
01:32:20- Dig in. - First of all,
01:32:21when you, it seems like when you--
01:32:22- Sorry, can I have another water, guys?
01:32:24- Same, please. - Thank you, yeah.
01:32:25- It seems like when you are talking about
01:32:30calling out the game versus doing it within the game
01:32:33as if those are two separate worlds.
01:32:35I don't want to have to go over here.
01:32:37That's not what we're doing.
01:32:38I don't see us talking about which way we hit the thing
01:32:41is going over here.
01:32:43If you've never played pickleball before
01:32:45and you've played tennis, we could just do it.
01:32:49And then you step in the kitchen or whatever.
01:32:53I don't know the rules well enough.
01:32:55And I can be like, oh, you stepped in the kitchen.
01:32:57And then you'd be like, oh, so you're out
01:33:00or whatever the thing is.
01:33:01And then eventually you'll figure it out
01:33:03or you can be like, hold on a second.
01:33:04So let me really quickly explain to you.
01:33:06This is what we're doing, da da da da da da da da da da da.
01:33:09You might have questions, maybe you don't.
01:33:12- So I agree.
01:33:13The difference is that socially, the rules are unwritten.
01:33:17In pickleball, the rules are very explicit.
01:33:21- Where are the pickleball rules written?
01:33:23- There's got to be a document somewhere.
01:33:26- Have you ever played pickleball?
01:33:27- Yes. - Have you read the document?
01:33:28- No. - They're unwritten then.
01:33:29- That's true, but they're written somewhere.
01:33:33- They're not.
01:33:34- Yes, yes, somewhere they're written.
01:33:36I'm not, but who's reading them?
01:33:40Out of all the people-
01:33:41- I actually need to interject into your interjection here,
01:33:43which is I have a friend who lives in Austin, Texas,
01:33:46who did precisely that and did read them
01:33:49and broke the game of pickleball so badly
01:33:51that they had to litigate his new move
01:33:53out of the sport of pickleball.
01:33:55- It's like adding the three point line.
01:33:56- He is Indian.
01:33:57- I know. - He says a lot.
01:33:58(laughing)
01:34:01- This unwritten rules.
01:34:03- I have a document of a lot of things I would want to do.
01:34:07Some of them are chapters, some of them are examples.
01:34:11Thank you very much.
01:34:13Dean, are we okay with it down there?
01:34:14- That's Dean.
01:34:15- Oh, hey Dean.
01:34:16(laughing)
01:34:18I want to write a book 'cause there's so many things
01:34:23that I never knew are like you're supposed to do.
01:34:25Good things, how are you, for example.
01:34:27And I want to do a book called unwritten rules written.
01:34:31And just this idea of like, oh here's, you know,
01:34:34here's why when you go up, show up to somebody's house,
01:34:36it's nice to bring flowers or a bottle of wine,
01:34:38even if you know they don't want it.
01:34:39And not that you have to do this,
01:34:41but here's what some expectations are
01:34:43that if you don't do them, at least like that be your choice.
01:34:45- This is your prep document,
01:34:46but for being a human rather than dating you.
01:34:49- For being their human, you know,
01:34:52because being a human is, you know,
01:34:55how much is it based off of my intuition
01:34:57of what I want, what I like,
01:34:59versus what you're telling me I'm supposed to do.
01:35:01- Can we discuss a list of things I have
01:35:03that is some of the most difficult to do
01:35:05whilst looking dignified?
01:35:06- Yes, and after that, I want one of us to remember
01:35:09to go back to talk about the game thing.
01:35:10- Game thing.
01:35:11Picking up a moving ping pong ball.
01:35:14Very difficult to do with dignity.
01:35:17Like if I throw a ping pong ball over there
01:35:19and I'm like, Rick, would you grab that for me please?
01:35:21And you're like, eh, you just tumble after it.
01:35:22- You're not an athlete.
01:35:24- Starting a stopped bicycle.
01:35:26- I get it.
01:35:29- Turning around, ever.
01:35:32- Eating a little bag of cereal with your hands.
01:35:36- Yes, yes.
01:35:37Trying to consume soup that's too hot.
01:35:42- On the opposite end,
01:35:43eating from an ice cream cone that's melting.
01:35:46- And you got to move real quick and get around the sides.
01:35:48Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're like Bonnie Blue.
01:35:50You're out.
01:35:57- Working out how to sleep inside of a blanket
01:36:01in a room that is too hot while you're too cold
01:36:05or that is too cold while you're too hot.
01:36:08You're like, okay, do I go arms under
01:36:09and just poke my head out like a little mummy
01:36:11or do I take my arms out and then pull it back down?
01:36:14- That's making me think of being in a bedroom,
01:36:16making love to somebody and then going into the bathroom
01:36:19while they're still in bed if you have a small ass.
01:36:22- If you have a small ass?
01:36:23- Yes, I have a small ass.
01:36:24So whenever I walk to a bathroom,
01:36:26I either have to moonwalk back
01:36:28so they see my big rock hard cock
01:36:30or I have to say, I have a little ass, don't look at me.
01:36:32- Why is it still hard?
01:36:33- Well, it was hard, but still it's, I guess it's not hard.
01:36:37- Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:36:38- Which is also, by the way, I used to be very embarrassed.
01:36:41Of course, it's embarrassing to be seen naked.
01:36:43I mean, it's a vulnerable thing,
01:36:44but if I'm going to be intimate with somebody
01:36:48and they see me soft, that's fine, it's going to happen.
01:36:51If a woman ever sees my penis soft before hard,
01:36:56I am humiliated.
01:36:58- It's okay to have gone from like grower to shower,
01:37:01but not from like the soft to hard.
01:37:04It's like, okay, as long as you've seen
01:37:06the Statue of Liberty as it's meant to be.
01:37:09- It's almost as if I think that she thinks
01:37:11when she sees my penis soft, she thinks,
01:37:13is that his penis when it's hard?
01:37:14- Right, okay.
01:37:15- So, so.
01:37:16- Have you ever called that out?
01:37:17Just so you know, darling, this is soft right now.
01:37:20It does get harder than this.
01:37:21- You told a, I don't remember what it was,
01:37:23but it was a love note from a husband
01:37:26which is fine. - To his wife
01:37:26and the reveal at the end is she is no longer with us.
01:37:29Beautiful, I've watched that a couple of times
01:37:32and it makes me cry when I do.
01:37:34- Yep.
01:37:35- He calls her darling and to hear you say darling
01:37:37in that voice, in this context, when that way of darling
01:37:40is associated with this is really,
01:37:42is what it's like when I'm seeing my flat ass.
01:37:45- Pavlovian response, okay.
01:37:47Sidling into a booth at a sports bar
01:37:52and you have to be the one that's right at the very end.
01:37:54- That's the one that I connected,
01:37:55out of all the ones that you said,
01:37:57that's the one that I connect with the most.
01:37:59- Closing a car door whilst holding two bags of luggage.
01:38:02- No, that's the fucking coolest,
01:38:03you use your knee or something.
01:38:05- You got to do that like.
01:38:05- No, that's cool guys, no you don't have to do that.
01:38:07And why are you putting the luggage so high up?
01:38:09Keep it down here and give it a little nudge.
01:38:11- Okay, all right, fair enough.
01:38:12- You don't have to go like this.
01:38:13- Well, you do, you're like, it's like rom-com
01:38:15and you've just got back from the date
01:38:16and you're like, ah, and you're like, acid.
01:38:20- Drinking from a straw during a fight.
01:38:22- Fucking dude, drinking from a straw is so good.
01:38:23- Trying to catch a straw that's like,
01:38:25you've got Cup over here watching something
01:38:27or talking to somebody and you miss it and you go.
01:38:30- See, I think that's just fun comedy acting.
01:38:33I think even just going for a straw, my instinct,
01:38:35even when I'm by myself is.
01:38:36- Like a horse, you look like a horse.
01:38:41You know when it does that thing where it goes like,
01:38:42la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la.
01:38:43Have you ever seen that?
01:38:45Yes, you have.
01:38:46Punk in the game again.
01:38:48- Why don't we just move on?
01:38:49- Okay, tell me about the rules of the game.
01:38:52- Nay, it's over.
01:38:52- Nay.
01:38:54- So, do you have more though?
01:38:56'Cause I.
01:38:57- What else have I got that's in that?
01:38:58Yeah, you can go.
01:38:59- The idea of, and if you have any, call them out.
01:39:04But the idea of the rules to the game and setting them up,
01:39:09I think that that is literally getting
01:39:14on the same page with somebody.
01:39:17So we could get on the same page by just kind of maneuvering
01:39:19and seeing if we could figure it out.
01:39:21But what's the, in the list of pros and cons,
01:39:26what's the con of you saying, wait, hold on a second.
01:39:28I'm confused with this.
01:39:29Or hold on a second.
01:39:30It seems like you and I are on the same page.
01:39:32We have to, you have to serve it
01:39:34to the opposite end of the court.
01:39:35Like what's the con for not wanting to do that?
01:39:38- The con for not wanting to, well,
01:39:44the con for doing it is easier to make the case of.
01:39:48Just that you have to.
01:39:50- That's what I meant.
01:39:51Yeah.
01:39:52- Break the flow of the conversation
01:39:54in order to be able to talk about the conversation.
01:39:57And typically for some people
01:39:58that feels a little bit uncomfortable.
01:40:00- Yeah.
01:40:01So you're cannibalizing the momentum.
01:40:02- Yeah, of course.
01:40:03We're back and forth and we're back and forth.
01:40:04Am I doing the thing?
01:40:05And it's like, hey, no, stop.
01:40:07And I think my point around where are the rules
01:40:09of the conversation sport written
01:40:11and the fact that they aren't.
01:40:13I think what I'm, the reason that I feel more comfortable
01:40:17and I feel like most people would feel more comfortable
01:40:19talking about the rules of pickleball
01:40:22than they would the rules of the conversation
01:40:24in whatever form you think that that exists
01:40:26is legitimacy because someone somewhere knows
01:40:31there's a fucking ancient scroll
01:40:32that's got the pickleball rules written on it.
01:40:35- Well, there's an ancient scroll
01:40:36that says you're supposed to say good things, how are you?
01:40:38- But is there?
01:40:39No, I don't think there is.
01:40:40Not in the same way because it's unconstrained.
01:40:44Here's another one.
01:40:45Let me give you this one, which I love as an example.
01:40:49Your capacity at pickleball is not judged
01:40:53as being close to your sense of self.
01:40:55I'm not saying, and for a professional pickleball player
01:40:58or somebody who is a insecure overachiever,
01:41:01maybe you do feel like your performance in pickleball
01:41:03at the local pickleball league determines your self-worth.
01:41:06But most people would say, if you made some error
01:41:09in the game of pickleball by stepping into the kitchen,
01:41:11that doesn't mean that you are bad or that you are lesser.
01:41:14- Yeah, and I think what a bummer that if you make an error
01:41:17and you say, oh, he was an Indian guy, by the way,
01:41:19and you're like, ooh, maybe I shouldn't have said that.
01:41:21Oh, that you're a bad pickleball player.
01:41:23- He's a great pickleball player.
01:41:24He's number two in the world.
01:41:25- No, I'm being sincere.
01:41:27I'm saying that if you do something bad in pickleball,
01:41:31it's not gonna affect your self-worth,
01:41:33traditionally you're saying.
01:41:34Where if you get in a booth and you have to go
01:41:38to the other end or a girl sees
01:41:39your flat little bullshit ass, I'm less than.
01:41:43What a bummer.
01:41:45- Well, that's true.
01:41:46My point is when we're talking about conversation.
01:41:49- Sorry, even me addressing it stops the momentum.
01:41:53- A little, but it's funny.
01:41:55- It wasn't that funny.
01:41:56- All right, well, I mean, you did it.
01:41:57- Yeah, but.
01:41:58- Which side of this debate,
01:42:01do you want to defend yourself or not?
01:42:03- Oh, I didn't even realize that's what I was doing.
01:42:05- No.
01:42:05- I'm like, I'm interested in this.
01:42:08And like, I didn't realize that's what I was doing.
01:42:12I'm like, just noticing like, oh, like the momentum shift.
01:42:14Okay, this is what he was talking about.
01:42:16And I'm just trying to form an opinion on that just then.
01:42:19But now I'm feeling like I'm stepping on what you're saying.
01:42:21And you called me out on something
01:42:23that I'm a little confused with.
01:42:24- I was just trying to, 'cause you said bummer, it's funny.
01:42:28You said bummer presumably because you thought it was funny.
01:42:30And I'm like, well, you said it presumably
01:42:33'cause you thought it was.
01:42:34I said, it's funny, you said, no, it's not.
01:42:35I'm like, which one, you can either say it and believe it
01:42:39or say that it wasn't funny, but you don't get to do both.
01:42:42- I mean, I guess, were these rules written somewhere?
01:42:45- Do you wanna talk about it?
01:42:46- Fuck you.
01:42:47Okay.
01:42:49- In my mind, the bummer is a throwaway.
01:42:51You familiar with this term over where you're from?
01:42:53- Tag, little tag.
01:42:55- There's a difference and we don't need to get into it.
01:42:58- Cool.
01:42:59- Throwaway is, if you hear it, enjoy it or don't.
01:43:02If you don't hear it, it doesn't, it doesn't,
01:43:04there's no exposition in it.
01:43:05It doesn't matter.
01:43:06It's just something, it's like, oh yeah, nice car.
01:43:08- So it was my fault.
01:43:10- Oh man, you are an overachiever.
01:43:12So what I'm saying is when I--
01:43:13- Tell me to make your bummer my fault.
01:43:16You're flat asses now.
01:43:17- It's funny that you say that.
01:43:18- Your bummer is my fault.
01:43:20Let me fucking finish this thing.
01:43:22In conversation, your ability to converse,
01:43:27to make the other person feel socially comfortable,
01:43:31to be accepted by the group,
01:43:33you're playing within the confines of the game
01:43:36in a way that is associated with your sense of self-worth.
01:43:39And a good example of this to compare the two,
01:43:42when I first started doing the show,
01:43:43I wanted to become a better speaker.
01:43:46So I got a diction coach and an improv.
01:43:49I started doing improv and I did some other bits and pieces.
01:43:53Some of my friends said to me,
01:43:54well, now that you're doing speech training,
01:43:57what about your accent?
01:43:58What about, you know,
01:43:59what if they degrade your Northern accent,
01:44:03North British accent?
01:44:04And I was like, well, you know,
01:44:06I'm not gonna be able to completely get rid of it.
01:44:08And that's not even my goal.
01:44:09I just want to become better at speaking.
01:44:11But I noticed that they wouldn't have said the same thing
01:44:13if I was a pianist and I said that I was going to go
01:44:16and get a teacher to teach me to be better at the piano.
01:44:18No one would have said, well,
01:44:19what about your beautiful natural way of playing the piano?
01:44:23And you go, well, there are objectively better
01:44:26and worse ways to play the piano.
01:44:27And by working with a teacher, I can become better.
01:44:31There are objectively better and worse ways
01:44:33to get words to come out of your mouth, be more precise.
01:44:36You can use your consonants to allow things to clip
01:44:38and sound more effective.
01:44:40Okay, why is it that someone sees the way that you speak
01:44:45as close to your sense of self,
01:44:47but the way that you play the piano
01:44:49as not close to your sense of self
01:44:50in that if you were to work on it
01:44:52and improve it diligently and deliberately,
01:44:55that's good in one scenario and slightly odd
01:44:59and almost like you're warping yourself and changing yourself.
01:45:03And to just do one more loop back to the pick apart is thing.
01:45:05I think that was one of the reasons that women have an ick
01:45:08around finding out that men have sort of done dating training
01:45:12because, well, who are you really?
01:45:15If this is you curated and cultivated and improved
01:45:19because you learn dating or something,
01:45:22well, where's you, where are you in there?
01:45:25And there are some things that are close to our sense of self
01:45:27and some things that aren't.
01:45:29Pickleball, I would say,
01:45:30except for a very select few of professionals
01:45:32is not close to your sense of self, but conversation is.
01:45:35So when you call out the rules of the game,
01:45:38but we're still talking about the game,
01:45:39we're not talking about the person.
01:45:41- That's true, but I think that the person and the game,
01:45:44when it comes to conversing is merged much more closely
01:45:47than it is in many other pursuits.
01:45:50- I believe you, I just don't feel it that way.
01:45:52I also don't even connect with what you're saying
01:45:54about your speech coaching and piano.
01:45:56I think that I play the piano
01:45:57and I think there's literally a term of phrasing when you play
01:46:01and the way that you phrase
01:46:02and the way that you move between chords is your accent,
01:46:06is your uniqueness. - The signature.
01:46:07- Yeah, if you were playing sheet music
01:46:11and you play to the rhythm
01:46:12and you play the notes that they're doing,
01:46:13but there's a reason that this person
01:46:15sounds different than this person.
01:46:16Similar to acting where, you know, some script,
01:46:19I did a commercial with Jim Parsons.
01:46:21Do you know who Jim Parsons is?
01:46:22He's one of the guys from Big Bang Theory.
01:46:24And we talked a lot because at the time
01:46:25I was on a multi-cam and he's on a multi-cam.
01:46:29Multi-cam is a TV show.
01:46:30There's like single cams and multi-cam.
01:46:33Multi-cam is one that's a play, but there's a camera.
01:46:36So there's no fourth wall.
01:46:37There's a live audience usually.
01:46:38And traditionally plays, you don't improvise too much
01:46:44because there's so much choreography with the blocking
01:46:46of the camera switching and everything, right?
01:46:47- Yep.
01:46:49- On his show, on Jim's show,
01:46:51that was just Chuck Lorre where he's known for,
01:46:54not only are you not allowed to improvise,
01:46:55you need to pause when there's a comma.
01:46:58It's very exact, right? - Yep.
01:47:01- If you're going to be a great multi-cam actor
01:47:04for this type of a boss, hit your mark,
01:47:08know your words, know your pauses,
01:47:10but then, well, what about what I bring to it?
01:47:12What about my phrasing?
01:47:14You're going to have your phrasing built into it
01:47:16or you'll be a robot, right?
01:47:18And I feel that way with a piano as well,
01:47:20as much as dictation.
01:47:21I mean, whether it's your accent or it's your charisma
01:47:24of like putting things aside
01:47:25and adding your own little twist, whatever it might be.
01:47:28As a comedian, it's called, I mean, most artists,
01:47:32it's like finding your voice.
01:47:34What's your voice?
01:47:35Do you know who Sebastian Maniscalco is?
01:47:36- Yes. - He's one
01:47:37of my favorite comics.
01:47:38When I tell people about him, I tell his joke, I can't.
01:47:46I'm not able to do his joke.
01:47:47I know all the words. - That's interesting,
01:47:48despite being a comedian and also knowing the joke.
01:47:51- And appreciating it.
01:47:54It's not like I'm saying something that's not funny to me,
01:47:56trying to make it, this is funny, I know all the words,
01:47:58and I do this professionally.
01:47:59I cannot do his thing.
01:48:01I cannot do it, it won't work.
01:48:03It's his phrasing. - Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:48:04- It's his faces.
01:48:06Even if I do the same timing.
01:48:07Anyway, I'm realizing that the past 40 minutes
01:48:14has been a little bit of us,
01:48:16I can imagine me contradicting the conversation
01:48:22of what you're saying.
01:48:23I even said, when I said about the piano,
01:48:25I saw you go like this.
01:48:27I just want to acknowledge, pardon me for saying
01:48:30the rules of the game, I'm having such a good time
01:48:31and I love conversations like this.
01:48:33I also could imagine us going all over the place,
01:48:35I don't know how you're doing it.
01:48:36- I'm having a ton of fun as well, because it allows the,
01:48:40it's not meandering, but it's allowing you
01:48:43to go what is interesting, which is cool.
01:48:45- I also think, when I watch your stuff,
01:48:48I have these thoughts.
01:48:51I don't talk to you, but the thing's like,
01:48:53oh fuck yeah, that's incredible.
01:48:54I don't know, what is he?
01:48:55And I'm just now consciously recognizing,
01:48:57oh, I'm watching this.
01:48:59- Yeah, you just happen to be an active participant.
01:49:01- No, so I, to kind of bring it into Lando,
01:49:04to put a bow on the conversation thing,
01:49:06the reason that I liked the inverse charisma idea.
01:49:12- Which is getting people to believe
01:49:14that they're interesting.
01:49:15- Yeah, by being good at asking questions,
01:49:17is that assuming that probably some significant cohort
01:49:22of people that that is pretty useful to are maybe a bit shy
01:49:28or a little bit more introverted or not super confident.
01:49:30- I think that you can go from shy and introverted
01:49:34to being good at asking questions,
01:49:35to maybe being interesting at telling stories.
01:49:37I think that the black belt level of this
01:49:39is doing what you're doing and saying,
01:49:41why don't we call out the game itself?
01:49:43I think the amount of bravery that's needed typically
01:49:46in a social situation to be like,
01:49:48I'm feeling a bit bored at the moment.
01:49:49Anybody else feeling a bit bored?
01:49:50Why can't we, why don't we talk about something else?
01:49:53Or whatever, especially one-on-one with somebody.
01:49:56That requires a leapfrog of bravery
01:50:01that I think most people would struggle to get to.
01:50:04- You're doing reverse charisma right now.
01:50:07- How so?
01:50:07- By telling me what I'm doing is black belt.
01:50:09- Ah.
01:50:10- And making me feel like I'm good at something.
01:50:12However, I think what other people do is the harder thing.
01:50:16I'm not doing the hard thing because why not?
01:50:19I think not acknowledging the thing
01:50:20is where I'm uncomfortable.
01:50:22And if I wanted to challenge myself and I have done this,
01:50:26I have a story, maybe I'll even tell you about this
01:50:28if there's time and you're interested,
01:50:29but this just happened.
01:50:30And I had to call a friend that was like a sponsor.
01:50:33I was going on a date with this girl
01:50:34and she kept pushing the time back.
01:50:37And I--
01:50:38- The same day?
01:50:39Tell the story.
01:50:40- Okay.
01:50:42So there's this woman that we've never met,
01:50:47but we followed each other on social media for years.
01:50:52At any given time, if we're both single,
01:50:54there's maybe some mild flirtation and there's not.
01:50:56So like, we don't know anything other than our projections
01:50:59of what they post, right?
01:51:00I go to a city, being vague on purpose.
01:51:06I go to a city and I'm doing shows there
01:51:10and she wants to come to the show.
01:51:11Now, I'm only doing two shows
01:51:14and some cities tickets sell well, some not so much.
01:51:17These were sold out.
01:51:18And I happen to have saved a guest list of tickets
01:51:21and I have two tickets saved for her
01:51:23and I don't know what show she wants to go to.
01:51:25So I saved two for both.
01:51:27Friends wanted to come, people that sell, whatever.
01:51:30It's not that big of a deal.
01:51:31Like I could give these tickets away if I don't, I don't.
01:51:33Whatever.
01:51:34So she was coming to the first show,
01:51:37but I still saved the second show
01:51:39because who knows what happens.
01:51:41The day before the first show, she didn't tell me.
01:51:44I checked in saying, hey, you know,
01:51:48here's the place if you come, blah, blah, blah.
01:51:50I'm so sorry, I have to, I'm out of town.
01:51:51I'm working, blah, blah, blah, blah.
01:51:53But I want to come to the other show.
01:51:55And then the day before that show, she messaged me.
01:51:57He goes, hey, is it possible I get two tickets
01:51:59so I could bring a friend?
01:52:00I said, I already have two tickets for you.
01:52:02My friend who comes with me who opens the show,
01:52:06he has some friends in town.
01:52:08He asks if they could have,
01:52:09is there any way we can get tickets?
01:52:11I only have these two tickets
01:52:12and I'm giving them to somebody else.
01:52:14Not that big of a deal, but whatever.
01:52:15I got a text after the show that 15 minutes after I went on,
01:52:19hey, sorry, I can't make it.
01:52:20It happens, it does.
01:52:21It would have been nice if you told me before the show,
01:52:23I could have given these tickets away.
01:52:25It's just, it's not necessarily a red flag,
01:52:29but it is something that I was disappointed and it happens.
01:52:32I really want to see you though, blah, blah, blah, blah.
01:52:36So we plan this day.
01:52:38I'm doing these things this day.
01:52:40I'm free at this time.
01:52:41I tell her that.
01:52:42She tells me where she lives, blah, blah, blah.
01:52:44My assumption, and I'm aware it was my assumption.
01:52:46My assumption was, I said, I'm done at this time.
01:52:49I'm free at five.
01:52:50That since she didn't say I can't do five,
01:52:52we were going to meet at five.
01:52:54When I finished my thing at four something,
01:52:55I messaged to like make some plans.
01:52:57She goes, hey, I'm da, da, da, da, da, da, da.
01:52:59I'm going to take a shower.
01:52:59Let's meet at 7.30.
01:53:01Let's meet at seven.
01:53:02So in my head, I'm like, yeah, I made the assumption five.
01:53:04Great.
01:53:05There's shows in town that I could do.
01:53:07A friend invited me to dinner that I can't go to
01:53:09because I'm going on this date with this girl.
01:53:127.04 comes because she said she was going to pick a place
01:53:16because I didn't know.
01:53:17I said, I understand it's very masculine
01:53:19for a person to pick a place.
01:53:20I found these things.
01:53:21If you like them, let's do them.
01:53:23If not, I would love a little bit of help here.
01:53:24Where should we go?
01:53:257.04, and I'm saying it's 7.04 because on my head, I'm like,
01:53:31I'm waiting for her to message me,
01:53:32but I also don't want to gamify this.
01:53:35I didn't get the information.
01:53:36She's not a great texter, at least not yet.
01:53:40It's 7.04, hey, did you figure out a place yet?
01:53:43At 7.30, she said, I'm so sorry,
01:53:46I'm running a little bit behind.
01:53:47Can we make it 8.30?
01:53:48I'm now thinking to myself, we said five to seven to 8.30,
01:53:53but we have to take the five off the table.
01:53:55That was my assumption.
01:53:56But why don't we split the difference,
01:53:57the tickets that I couldn't give away?
01:53:59It's just, I'm like, what are we doing here?
01:54:00So I'm already now feeling, once we move it to 8.30,
01:54:03I'm feeling like my ego doesn't even want
01:54:07to meet this person anymore.
01:54:11It is what it is.
01:54:13At 8.30, at 8.30, not before 8.30, at 8.30,
01:54:18she said, hey, I'm sorry, I'm running late.
01:54:22I want to make it nine.
01:54:23If you don't want to meet, now, if it's too late,
01:54:25I understand, but I still really want to meet you.
01:54:27If you don't want to meet.
01:54:29It wasn't that, I could look it up.
01:54:30It was basically what I received,
01:54:32it was her feeling bad that she pushed it back,
01:54:35while also not conceding that she didn't make
01:54:39this a priority, not this being me,
01:54:42this being her commitments, and if it's too late,
01:54:45I understand giving me an out, but letting me know,
01:54:47I still really want to see you.
01:54:48I'm now like, I could have gone to dinner.
01:54:53I mean, if we made it at 9.30, I could have, you know?
01:54:56And I wrote, I'm now thinking like, okay,
01:54:59if she comes, comes, and by the way,
01:55:01the plan where we were going to meet was now she said,
01:55:03I'll come, she's going to come to my hotel.
01:55:05This literally, it's an awesome hotel
01:55:07with a fun lounge downstairs, there's no, in my mind,
01:55:10assumption or, there's nothing hookup about this.
01:55:13It's just, she's now going to come to me
01:55:16for a convenience, I guess.
01:55:18And I'm thinking to myself, there's no way
01:55:20I'm going to be able to say nice to meet you
01:55:22and not call out the game.
01:55:24This is fucking, and she, the tickets and the this.
01:55:29So I wrote a letter, a letter, I mean a text, a letter.
01:55:33I actually kind of want to read it,
01:55:34and maybe this is embarrassing.
01:55:35I didn't send it, can I pull it up?
01:55:37So I wrote something that I knew I was writing this for me,
01:55:46but after I wrote it, I'm like, should I send this?
01:55:50And I sent it to a friend who I'm glad told me no,
01:55:53because his logic was, and I agree with this,
01:55:56you could always say this later.
01:55:57If you end up meeting this person and you feel safe
01:56:00and it's brought up, you have this,
01:56:02you're in touch with your feelings.
01:56:04But before you ever meet a person,
01:56:06so if I didn't give you the setup,
01:56:08and I was just, and someone would be like,
01:56:10hey, Rick's a bit much, what do you mean?
01:56:11Let me show you this text he sent a girl that he never met.
01:56:13You'd be like, dude, you're fucking out of your mind.
01:56:15So I want to add the context, I'm aware of that.
01:56:18But this is how I articulated it to myself,
01:56:21and I wanted to send it to her.
01:56:24I don't know how embarrassed I'm going to be yet,
01:56:26because I don't remember this yet.
01:56:27I didn't send it.
01:56:32- It's a caveat.
01:56:34I wanted to share something before we meet,
01:56:36because if I didn't, I think I'd end up canceling
01:56:39or showing up in a way that doesn't feel genuine.
01:56:42I've been feeling frustrated.
01:56:43We were planning to meet at five,
01:56:45then move to seven and then to 8.30.
01:56:48I turned down a standup show and another podcast
01:56:51so we could get together, which I was happy to do,
01:56:52but it left me feeling like my time
01:56:54wasn't really being considered.
01:56:56Same with yesterday, I didn't send this.
01:56:59I held my last two tickets for you,
01:57:01and when you let me know you weren't coming,
01:57:03the show had already started.
01:57:04I totally understand that plans change,
01:57:06but the timing left me feeling overlooked.
01:57:09I know you've had a busy week traveling.
01:57:10I get that things have been a lot.
01:57:12I'm not saying this to guilt you,
01:57:13only I'd rather tell you where I'm at than show up hiding.
01:57:16If meeting up doesn't feel right after hearing that,
01:57:19I'll understand."
01:57:20By the way, at 9.30, at nine, it moved to 10,
01:57:31and she apologized that her friend
01:57:33is going through something, and she lost track of time,
01:57:36which she didn't lose track of time, because you told me.
01:57:40And she's, "I'm running together, I'm getting together."
01:57:43I said, "Hey, at this point, I'm at my hotel.
01:57:46If you want to come, I'd love to see you.
01:57:48If not, it is what it is."
01:57:50Now, I'm not doing anything anyway, so.
01:57:52She tells me at 10.20 something that I'm in the car,
01:58:01and then she said, "Well, technically I'm waiting
01:58:02for the car, is now still okay?"
01:58:03I said, "Yeah, come."
01:58:04Her Uber is maybe 10 minutes away, 30 minutes goes by,
01:58:12and I said, "Are you coming?"
01:58:15And she said, "Yes, sorry, five minutes."
01:58:17I thought she meant she's in the Uber, it's five minutes away.
01:58:21After 20 minutes, I realized, oh, best case scenario,
01:58:23she meant the car is five minutes away.
01:58:25When she said that, I messaged her back.
01:58:28It was a bit passive aggressive.
01:58:29It was my only way of feeling like I'm being honest.
01:58:32I said, "Oh, I didn't realize you were crawling here."
01:58:34And then she ended up getting there at 11 something, drunk.
01:58:39Drunk, which by the way, I am so unattracted
01:58:43to people who are drinking.
01:58:44It's the grossest.
01:58:45I'm not saying it doesn't serve a purpose.
01:58:47I'm saying I don't want to be around it.
01:58:49- It's not hot.
01:58:50- A drink is different than, you know,
01:58:53I could tell you're drunk because your lips
01:58:54aren't the way they're supposed to be.
01:58:56You know, it's just like, and I'm like,
01:58:58now I'm fucking forced to do this podcast
01:59:00with her for 90 minutes.
01:59:02By the way, Daniel Craig was there, okay?
01:59:05- That's cool.
01:59:05- Very, and I go, that's James Bond.
01:59:07And this is his own thing, but she goes, "Who?"
01:59:10And she's looking right there.
01:59:11I'm like, be fucking cool.
01:59:13And she goes, "That's not him."
01:59:15And I was just like, all right, I'm like, you know what?
01:59:18- You went through the 90 minutes?
01:59:20- Yeah, I was there with her for 90 minutes.
01:59:21- Why did you not just pull the rip cord?
01:59:24- Can I tell you the truth?
01:59:25- Yes.
01:59:26- She's unbelievably beautiful and I'm not proud of this.
01:59:31And she's, she is, she's so beautiful.
01:59:36- Even drunk?
01:59:39- There's a difference between being attracted to somebody
01:59:42and thinking that they're attractive, right?
01:59:45I was actually happy that I wasn't attracted to her
01:59:49in that moment.
01:59:50I'm like, oh, I'm glad that this is not okay with me.
01:59:53Meaning that, but I wasn't enough to where I was like,
01:59:56hey, you got to get out of here.
01:59:58Also the conversation wasn't the worst and she's the mean.
02:00:03It was, if it were a podcast, I wouldn't have posted it
02:00:08and I don't think I've ever done that.
02:00:10You know what I mean?
02:00:11But I was like, she's so beautiful.
02:00:14And this is-
02:00:14- I just get to look at this thing for 90 minutes.
02:00:16- It's less, it's more childish than that.
02:00:22It's like, I'm taking this to myself as well.
02:00:27Like it's somebody that got grandfathered in.
02:00:31I've, we've like, this person that I've been wanting to meet,
02:00:36I don't know if I'm going to like them or not.
02:00:38And there wasn't any type of like this crazy draw to them.
02:00:42Or it's like, this is really,
02:00:43and then I was excited all week to meet this person.
02:00:46And then I do, and there's, oh, she's so pretty.
02:00:48There's something, it was just, I'm in this cool city.
02:00:51I'm in this cool hotel.
02:00:52It's this beautiful girl.
02:00:53It's just, it's really fun to flirt.
02:00:55It's really fun to flirt.
02:00:57I like flirting-
02:00:58- It's 1130 PM after it's been pushed.
02:00:59But I don't know if I would have,
02:01:02I commend you for, first off, not sending that.
02:01:05Secondly, I think the way that it's written
02:01:07in terms of like this, I just want to state to you,
02:01:11this is how I'm feeling and this is why.
02:01:13And I think it's, you know, it's pretty balanced.
02:01:15I commend you for going through the 90 minute thing.
02:01:18I think my bitterness radar, my pissed offness,
02:01:23I wouldn't have been able to reach equanimity.
02:01:26And then drunk, I would have just been like, I-
02:01:28- I may have buried the lead.
02:01:30Within five minutes of meeting, I told her all of this.
02:01:33I forgot to say that.
02:01:34- Did that relieve-
02:01:36- I think the only reason
02:01:37why we were able to have the 90 minutes.
02:01:39She came in and she said how embarrassed she is
02:01:41and how sorry she is.
02:01:42And I said, I wrote a text to a friend
02:01:45that I never sent to you.
02:01:46And now that you bring this up,
02:01:47I kind of want to tell you some things.
02:01:49I didn't read it to her, but she, and I told her,
02:01:51yes, I hear you.
02:01:53If I had not said that or had I said that
02:01:55and she received it unkindly.
02:01:57- Even with that, dude, I think the drunk thing would have,
02:01:59I would have been like, is this a practical joke?
02:02:02This has to be a practical joke.
02:02:04- I thought, not even the drunk,
02:02:07I thought the way it kept being pushed back,
02:02:08I thought it was, are we going to see how long
02:02:09he's going to be willing to do this thing?
02:02:11- With your group of friends, girlfriends going,
02:02:13I'm fucking stringing this guy along.
02:02:15I'm feeling a bit self-conscious right now
02:02:17about admitting something that was true,
02:02:19but not the only thing about, oh, cause she's so beautiful.
02:02:22I mean, she is, and that's, that was true.
02:02:25But that wasn't, that wasn't what drove me
02:02:28to wanting to have the date.
02:02:30I mean, if I wasn't attracted to her,
02:02:31I wouldn't want to have it.
02:02:32It was when she showed up, there is a novelty to this thing
02:02:37where it was just like,
02:02:38that's what I meant about more childish,
02:02:39like this idea of like this high school thing of like,
02:02:41oh, this pretty person wants to hang out with me.
02:02:43Like I could pretend that didn't exist, but it does.
02:02:47You know, I feel that way.
02:02:49I feel that way all the time with my podcast,
02:02:52when people come over and like when Sebastian came over,
02:02:55there's no way he's coming over and doing this
02:02:57if I don't have a podcast.
02:02:59So like, but I'm still aware of like, this is fucking crazy.
02:03:02- It's a little bit like being a porn star
02:03:05and getting to have sex.
02:03:06Like they, I mean, they might want to do this,
02:03:09but they wouldn't be doing this if we weren't at work.
02:03:11Like they're doing it because all of the cameras are here.
02:03:12- Yeah.
02:03:13- So, but I get the simulacrum of like,
02:03:15we're friends for like 90 minutes or two hours.
02:03:17We're friends.
02:03:17- And I get to ask you questions that I wanted to ask you.
02:03:20And I feel like-
02:03:22- And you have to answer them, kind of.
02:03:23- Yeah, I mean, or otherwise, like, you know,
02:03:26I'll ask you different.
02:03:27But yeah, there is this feeling like,
02:03:29I both love who I am and feel like,
02:03:31why wouldn't you want to be friends with me?
02:03:33I also have this thing, like I told you,
02:03:35I didn't really have friends as a kid
02:03:38and I didn't even recognize it.
02:03:39I didn't feel un-included, but I was.
02:03:42And I didn't, meaning,
02:03:44I didn't recognize what being included means
02:03:46until I started playing basketball.
02:03:48And like, these people are forced to be my friends,
02:03:50but they also, we have the same goals.
02:03:53- Pawn star, podcast guest, basketball team.
02:03:55- So that still exists for me.
02:03:56It still exists for me where like, I become friends.
02:04:00Do you know who Lisa Gilroy is?
02:04:01- No.
02:04:02- I think she's one of the funniest people in the world.
02:04:04She's been on my podcast a bunch now.
02:04:05She's an improviser and an actress,
02:04:06and she's unbelievably funny.
02:04:08She comes over and when she comes over,
02:04:10and I've said this to her,
02:04:12it feels like I'm so glad we're friends.
02:04:14Like you want to be friends with me, right?
02:04:15The way we play with each other.
02:04:17There's this feeling of like,
02:04:18when people want to be friends with me and I know it.
02:04:21Where it's not like, oh, finally somebody likes me.
02:04:25It's not, it doesn't remove a negative that exists.
02:04:28It's just this thing of like, fucking, I have like,
02:04:32it's having friends is crazy.
02:04:34Having friends is like, you want to play?
02:04:36And being around a person that you're physically attracted to
02:04:39is another thing, it's like, this is fucking,
02:04:41I love fucking looking at you.
02:04:43It feels so good to look, you want to kiss me?
02:04:46You want to kiss me?
02:04:47It's just, I'm not like, why would you want to kiss me?
02:04:50But I am so glad that you want, you want to like,
02:04:53when I was in school, when friends would go,
02:04:58sometimes friends would go over to other friends
02:05:00and everyone knows that because they had a note
02:05:04that the moms, both moms or parents send or guardians
02:05:08and the school agrees to that you're going on their bus.
02:05:12So like when, so like, you know,
02:05:14this kid's going on this kid's bus.
02:05:15So, you know, after school,
02:05:16they're going to go and be friends with each other.
02:05:18And I was always like, fucking, that's crazy.
02:05:20All day, you know, he's coming on your bus.
02:05:23I still have that feeling.
02:05:24And it isn't exclusive to attractive people,
02:05:27but it is, it does feel it's all very high school.
02:05:31Like the varsity team or the pretty people
02:05:34or the funny people, school people, rich people,
02:05:37interesting people.
02:05:37- Interesting, I never thought about rich people,
02:05:38but I can see how that's a thing.
02:05:40- Yeah, well, anybody that has anything
02:05:42that other people want.
02:05:43- That's the value thing.
02:05:44If somebody can make me laugh or like,
02:05:46if you're an awesome basketball player.
02:05:48- But that's the, how would you say,
02:05:50like more shallow transactional version of that is,
02:05:53well, maybe they can invest in my company
02:05:55or maybe they know somebody that I can hire
02:05:57for this role that I need.
02:05:58- Oh, I was thinking that even that was shallow.
02:06:01Yeah, I think that, but isn't that how,
02:06:04I think that if your motives are undefined
02:06:08to the other person, then that's a bit like,
02:06:11but like if you were to say, hey, I'm a huge fan of yours
02:06:13and I want you to love what I do
02:06:15because I think you might, you'd be a great partner for me.
02:06:18And if it offers value to you, I would love to work with you.
02:06:21- Yeah, that's true.
02:06:22It's the assumption. - Defining attention.
02:06:24- Yeah, the assumption there is that one person
02:06:27needs to coerce or cajole or convince the other person,
02:06:30like, and they wouldn't do
02:06:32if they had all of the information.
02:06:33- Right, right, yes.
02:06:34- Like I want you to invest in my company,
02:06:35but you probably don't want to,
02:06:37but I'm gonna fugazi you into thinking
02:06:39and I've got special kind of access
02:06:41and I'm gonna do something in this situation
02:06:44that allows me to get that, yeah.
02:06:46- I went to a school for marketing and theater.
02:06:49And in one of my sales classes, I learned that,
02:06:53I've also grew up, my parents are in retail
02:06:54and I've been in retail a lot.
02:06:56But when you try and sell somebody something,
02:07:00you're acting for yourself,
02:07:01but if you're trying to offer somebody a value,
02:07:04so like, instead of saying, hey, I need to sell these phones,
02:07:07but instead I'm trying to overcome an obstacle
02:07:10that you have that this phone would help overcome.
02:07:12So like finding out somebody else's needs.
02:07:14If you are, if this wouldn't benefit you,
02:07:17then I don't even want to sell this to you
02:07:20because it's a waste of both of our time
02:07:23and it's manipulative.
02:07:24But if the other person has, so like,
02:07:26don't sell the product, sell the obstacle
02:07:30that the other person has.
02:07:31And that's like what you're saying of like,
02:07:34you know, you have a lot of money
02:07:35and what's $100,000 to you?
02:07:37Just let me have it.
02:07:38And then another version of that
02:07:40that feels very like Hollywood is this idea of like,
02:07:42I'm only like talking to you and being friends with you
02:07:44because maybe you might want to.
02:07:47And then you see somebody else, you know,
02:07:49like having a conversation with somebody
02:07:50and then they see somebody else.
02:07:51I'll say right away, I'm not saying that you want to go
02:07:55and talk to somebody else, but if you do,
02:07:56like we could end this conversation.
02:07:59I'm not, when I'm talking to somebody on their phone,
02:08:02I don't think that they shouldn't be on their phone,
02:08:03but I'm going to wait.
02:08:05When I'm with somebody and they go to the bathroom,
02:08:08when we're watching something, I'm going to press pause.
02:08:09It's all the same shit.
02:08:11But when I see somebody doing that, there's no way.
02:08:13I'm not with you anymore.
02:08:14I'm not with you.
02:08:16So just say, hey, listen, I know this might be rude,
02:08:18but there's, if I can, Dwayne Wade is over there
02:08:20and is a huge fan.
02:08:21I want to see if I can like kind of get in and get a picture.
02:08:23Come with me or I'll come back and have this conversation.
02:08:25I just got to go see Dwayne Wade.
02:08:27You know, the thought isn't super,
02:08:29the superficial thought is human.
02:08:32It's the way that you hide it or from yourself
02:08:34and or the other person.
02:08:36And that's where the practice of calling out the game,
02:08:39I think is just, it's not brave.
02:08:43What's brave is to not look at Dwayne Wade
02:08:46and just pretend that I'm here with you when I'm not.
02:08:49You know what I mean?
02:08:50- I don't think that's brave.
02:08:51I think that's cowardly.
02:08:53- It's harder.
02:08:53I guess, instead of saying brave, I'll say it's harder.
02:08:56- Yeah, it is.
02:08:56It is in some ways you're suppressing something,
02:08:59but it's emotionally maybe easier, certain emotions.
02:09:03Like if your shame and your codependency
02:09:07and your social awkwardness is stronger
02:09:09than your need to get a photo with this guy that you like,
02:09:13your like desire, passion, whatever, curiosity.
02:09:17You're like, I'm going to lock in.
02:09:19I'm going to keep looking and this is going to be okay.
02:09:21And I don't look at him again.
02:09:23- And then, but you also, you find your differences.
02:09:26You say, hey, listen, I don't want to be rude.
02:09:28I just saw Dwayne is there
02:09:29and I wasn't listening for a second.
02:09:30I'm back with you, but how fucking cool is that?
02:09:32Like saying, just acknowledging,
02:09:34acknowledging, otherwise I'm here.
02:09:37- Doing it in a classy way, I think.
02:09:39The delivery of this is the devil's in the details
02:09:44of how you actually do this thing,
02:09:46because you can do it in a really clunky way, right?
02:09:49And I imagine somebody who-
02:09:51- What's a clunky way, if it's honest?
02:09:53- Clunky way, well-
02:09:53- Still honest, but what's clunky?
02:09:55- Well, there are better and worse ways.
02:09:57Like the one that you just did there,
02:09:58which is like, I'm just seeing this guy
02:09:59and he's like, he's so fucking cool.
02:10:00And I, isn't that sick?
02:10:01Like, should we go over?
02:10:03I want to go over.
02:10:04Do you want to come with me?
02:10:05Like part of it's the inclusion,
02:10:08the sense that you're involving them.
02:10:10It's the sort of doing it as a little undercurrent things.
02:10:14Like, oh, this is us.
02:10:15This is our little secret thing.
02:10:16And like you're in on it as opposed to-
02:10:17- Oh, that's such a funny way.
02:10:18You're right. That's a funny way of looking at it.
02:10:20By doing it like this,
02:10:22it's almost as if I'm telling you what I'm thinking,
02:10:25but I'm also including you in my thought.
02:10:28- Yes, you're a part of it.
02:10:28You're not excluding.
02:10:29- That's such an interesting way of looking at it.
02:10:32Of like, yeah, you're including somebody.
02:10:46Yeah, I think sometimes maybe I'm saying something
02:10:51that I feel is valuable information,
02:10:54the rules to a game, but I'm doing it for me
02:10:57and not necessarily including the other person.
02:11:01And maybe that's like what you're saying of like,
02:11:03oh, it messes up the momentum or changes things because,
02:11:06anyway, it's just an interesting perspective
02:11:10that I hadn't thought of before.
02:11:12- I think so.
02:11:13- Yeah, I think that's awesome.
02:11:15- Yeah, well, how wonderful to make somebody feel included
02:11:20in this thing.
02:11:22- Obviously, but yeah, I think that's a tool
02:11:27that I could sharpen of like, is this including somebody?
02:11:31This happens when things feel serious to me
02:11:36and I don't want to, yeah, whatever.
02:11:39I don't have more to say on that.
02:11:44I just think it's a, I love the way that you articulated
02:11:47the thing that I was already doing,
02:11:49but here's maybe why this works versus,
02:11:51hey, I'm doing this now.
02:11:52Like me not messaging that,
02:11:57how do I know when to tell the person the thing I'm feeling?
02:12:00Sometimes you tell this person that's kind of,
02:12:04you know, I do think if I messaged that to her
02:12:06before we ever met, it wouldn't benefit either of us
02:12:10because it could benefit either of us,
02:12:15but there's a better chance of doing it in person by the eye
02:12:19where they could hear my tone instead of assume it.
02:12:22Like, wait a second, but I like,
02:12:25I felt like a liar by not sending it.
02:12:27I'm not okay with this.
02:12:28I'm not okay with moving it to nine or 930 or 10.
02:12:31I could be if she knew who I felt,
02:12:35but like, swallow it now and I do think like,
02:12:40I didn't know why, even though I agree with it,
02:12:42I do think by telling her that I'm not including her
02:12:46in how I'm feeling, I'm telling her how I'm feeling.
02:12:48I do think there's a significant difference,
02:12:50whether it's literally saying,
02:12:51you could come with me to Dwayne Wade or like saying,
02:12:55hey, I want to tell you, even just a whispering.
02:12:57It's like, it's, hey, I want to, this is just for you.
02:12:59- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
02:13:01That's lovely.
02:13:06- I love, there's sometimes something you just realize
02:13:11or something somebody says, and it's like, oh,
02:13:14you could put, I could put that in my bag now,
02:13:16where it's just like, when in doubt, ask,
02:13:19is this including this person?
02:13:20So yeah, thanks, that was great.
02:13:25- Dude, that's awesome.
02:13:26Rick, let's bring it home.
02:13:27I've really been looking forward to meeting you.
02:13:29I've been, I actually had a question for you,
02:13:33which was why, well, I guess you explained it earlier on
02:13:37that you feel you learned something
02:13:39and sometimes it's interesting,
02:13:40even if it's not quite in your wheelhouse.
02:13:43I was surprised that you were a fan of the show.
02:13:46I didn't think that it was slap bang in the middle
02:13:49of the bullseye of what you would be into.
02:13:53But then actually, I mean, I've had a lot of conversations
02:13:58with people that on the surface I think would have been like,
02:14:00oh, well, obviously these two people make sense.
02:14:03And today's been like so much fucking fun.
02:14:05I found it very cozy actually, to be honest,
02:14:07and like very intimate. - Sweaters.
02:14:09- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
02:14:11- I don't know you asked me,
02:14:12but I have an answer for watching your stuff.
02:14:16One, as a, and I don't mean this term derogatory,
02:14:21but as a performer, like you are a performer.
02:14:23I'm not saying it's disingenuous,
02:14:25but I mean like as somebody who is in front of cameras,
02:14:27literally looking straight to the camera and saying stuff,
02:14:29you're aware of you're doing this with a purpose.
02:14:33For people to consume it, right?
02:14:34There are some performers that I feel like,
02:14:39I believe you and some I don't.
02:14:43And not believing somebody isn't a bad thing.
02:14:45Like I know Robert Downey Jr. isn't Iron Man,
02:14:47but I could still buy into it.
02:14:48You know what I mean?
02:14:49Like that's, he's doing a certain type of performance.
02:14:51So on one thing, I believe you.
02:14:54I believe that you want to be saying what you're saying.
02:14:57And also by design of what your show is,
02:14:58it seems like you're documenting your growth,
02:15:01whether it's literally how many subscribers you have
02:15:03or how many people shit before it got into your mouth.
02:15:06You were just like, you're learning.
02:15:08And that's like part of the context of this.
02:15:10So I've just connected to that because it's like,
02:15:13maybe you have something that will benefit me.
02:15:16You know, like the perspective of inclusion,
02:15:18which maybe somebody has said to me before
02:15:20and it just didn't clock at the right time.
02:15:22And then you have guests on that are like,
02:15:30that have points of view.
02:15:32So like the combination of a point of view
02:15:34that I might share and might not share,
02:15:35opposite somebody who I believe that since I'm not
02:15:38in the room to call somebody out or to ask a curiosity,
02:15:42I believe that the person is there is going to do it
02:15:44the best that person can.
02:15:46And I just think it's an attractive show.
02:15:49It is, I mean, it's literally, visually it is too,
02:15:52but like, yeah, it's stuff that helps
02:15:56that doesn't feel like I'm watching a self-help.
02:15:59Not that there's anything wrong with watching self-help,
02:16:01but it's just people talking about,
02:16:02you know what I've noticed?
02:16:03And like, you did notice it, you know what I mean?
02:16:06Like, oh, here's something you actually noticed.
02:16:09Let me listen.
02:16:10I think you have a great show, dude.
02:16:11- Thank you. - Yeah.
02:16:12- That's really kind.
02:16:13I really fucking love yours as well.
02:16:15I think that the way that it makes me feel,
02:16:20most importantly, it's not what I take away.
02:16:23It's like the way that it makes me feel.
02:16:24And like, I don't know why this, the word of the day is cozy.
02:16:26Maybe it is like jumper vibes.
02:16:28And the bio, the little description that you've got of it,
02:16:33and the- - I don't even remember that.
02:16:36I wrote that like when I first started.
02:16:37- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
02:16:38Like I think I'm a boy or I'm a silly boy
02:16:41or something like that in there.
02:16:42And yeah, the little illustration that comes across,
02:16:46like he's a little cute.
02:16:47He's like poking out behind the side.
02:16:48Yeah, to me, it's like, oh, fuck.
02:16:50Like it feels like I can just,
02:16:52oh, it's like Sunday afternoon shit for me.
02:16:54And that's like very, very nice.
02:16:56- By design, having a studio would benefit
02:16:58for a lot of different logistical reasons.
02:17:00But by design, I want to do it in my living room.
02:17:02I also, when people come over
02:17:04and they want to have their publicists,
02:17:06like people who I don't know who I am
02:17:08and I would love to have them on, I say no.
02:17:11And nobody else could be in the room.
02:17:13And it's just, you're in my living room.
02:17:15And I want to feel like you're in my living room.
02:17:17And I do think there's a coziness to it
02:17:18that maybe that's a coincidence that you said it, maybe not.
02:17:20But that is like a tone of this show
02:17:23where maybe I'll be funny, maybe I won't.
02:17:25But as long as we could both be comfortable
02:17:27and like show up as we are now,
02:17:30then like I don't have to worry about was this good or not.
02:17:32- That's definitely something that's been a challenge
02:17:34with doing these, what we call the cinema shoots,
02:17:36which is what this is,
02:17:37that trying to make it feel like unencumbered, natural,
02:17:42like fuck, you know, there's all these cameras
02:17:46and all of this stuff and the lighting and it looks fantastic.
02:17:49But okay, how do we like get to the fucking connection bit?
02:17:52And how do we get out of, not necessarily performance mode,
02:17:54'cause you used the word professional earlier on,
02:17:56which I thought was really good.
02:17:57It's like turning up when you're nervous
02:18:00or energized or whatever the closest approximation was.
02:18:03It's like, that's being a professional.
02:18:05That's being a professional.
02:18:06I turn up and I do my job.
02:18:07Even if I, fuck, I'm too tired or I didn't learn my lines
02:18:10or I, you know, this new bit's gonna fucking eat shit
02:18:13or whatever it is.
02:18:13Like we're professional, so I'm gonna turn up and do that.
02:18:16But what you're trying to do with a conversation like this
02:18:19is get to that moment where it's like, ah,
02:18:22like we've circled around this fucking drain.
02:18:24- Figured out any tricks that you could articulate?
02:18:27- Ooh, a little bit.
02:18:30The right amount of foreplay before you get in,
02:18:32which was what we did, like no more than 10 minutes.
02:18:36- Dude, that's so funny that you say that
02:18:37because I, by design, don't want,
02:18:39like 'cause I meet people outside and walk them in
02:18:41and I say-
02:18:42- You sometimes start filming outside, eh?
02:18:43- No, no, no, I say, this is producer Rick.
02:18:47I don't want to be rude.
02:18:47I don't even want to meet you yet.
02:18:49I want to meet them on camera.
02:18:50And interesting that you're saying, don't, so why?
02:18:54What have you found?
02:18:55And I know we're wrapping it up, but tell me,
02:18:56what have you found by foreplay before camera
02:18:58that benefits this?
02:18:59- It's the same thing with going for dinner with the guests
02:19:03the night before.
02:19:05I would love to go to dinner with you afterward.
02:19:08I'd love to go to dinner with you after we record.
02:19:11- Right.
02:19:12- I'm not going to dinner with you before.
02:19:12I'm not going to dinner with you the night before.
02:19:14- Yeah, but we're saying the same thing.
02:19:15- All of the best shit that we want to talk about.
02:19:17I know this thing about you and I watch this thing
02:19:19and I've got the jumper.
02:19:20- But that's the foreplay before.
02:19:22But so my point is dinner is fucking way too much.
02:19:25- Also you do a little.
02:19:26- But like you come in and we say, hey, and we do this.
02:19:30Even you start to creep out into 15 minutes
02:19:34and there's, unless you're in a group and that helps
02:19:38'cause other people can do their thing.
02:19:40But all of the shit that you want to talk about,
02:19:43you don't have that much to talk about.
02:19:44And it's always, and it's like below the surface.
02:19:47It's always just like trying to pick up
02:19:49like just below the surface.
02:19:50And then the second that you get to talk,
02:19:51it starts bursting through and you're like, no, fuck.
02:19:53Like the camera's not on, like shut the fuck up.
02:19:55So limit the foreplay stuff before, I think is real good.
02:20:00A very, at least in my experience,
02:20:05because of the style of my show,
02:20:07like a very quick, like snappy first question.
02:20:10Although today we just started talking,
02:20:11but if it is a little bit more humanly, like it's about you.
02:20:15The show's about you, it's not about me.
02:20:17Sometimes it's about me when it's a solo episode.
02:20:19Yeah, but it is, the show is entirely like inverse charisma,
02:20:23a hundred percent.
02:20:24It's like, I want you to look as good
02:20:25as possible on the show.
02:20:27Even if it's somebody that I'm gonna try and push.
02:20:28I'm like, I want you to have the longest amount of rope
02:20:32and with it, you can start doing like fucking skipping tricks
02:20:35or you can hang yourself with it.
02:20:36But I'm gonna like give it to you as much as possible.
02:20:40Here's the fucking trampoline or the pedestal.
02:20:43And from up there, like proselytize about whatever you want
02:20:46and you're gonna look silly, you're gonna look great.
02:20:47But I'm gonna try and make you look,
02:20:49I'm gonna try and get the best version
02:20:50of whatever your argument is.
02:20:53Bernie Sanders on the show in New York last week.
02:20:55Fucking, we were supposed to have Kamala Harris today.
02:20:59That didn't come up.
02:20:59I was also on Tucker's show and I'm like,
02:21:01I guess I was a guest, but yeah, I've had whatever.
02:21:03Ben Shapiro.
02:21:04So like, no matter who it is, I'm like, okay,
02:21:05I really wanna fucking get to what you mean.
02:21:07Like, I really wanna work out what you mean.
02:21:09And I'm not gonna, I'm not good at being cantankerous
02:21:11and like sort of backbiting, flaming.
02:21:13I know what cantankerous means,
02:21:15but for the people at home that don't.
02:21:17Disagreeable, like purposefully like brusque and like spiky.
02:21:22Like I'm not good at that.
02:21:23Anyway, so quick first question.
02:21:27It's like, hey, away you go.
02:21:28This is about you.
02:21:29I'm gonna get the fuck out of the way.
02:21:30Like nice, easy, low ball first question.
02:21:33Huberman, like asking him about,
02:21:37he's doing lots of stuff about cortisol.
02:21:39So I think the first question was like,
02:21:40most people think that cortisol is a bad thing.
02:21:42Is that true?
02:21:43It's like- - Absolutely not.
02:21:44- There you go.
02:21:45Those, that helps.
02:21:47Deepening the connection is sometimes difficult
02:21:49because you can't force it as you've identified today.
02:21:52You can't force connection.
02:21:53You're like, am I here with this person?
02:21:56One thing I have noticed and I learned this term yesterday,
02:21:58which I think you might fucking love.
02:21:59Joe Hudson taught me a vagal authority.
02:22:04So what he's referring to in any interaction or in any room,
02:22:08one person's nervous system is dictating everybody else's.
02:22:12So somebody is in a conversation group or one-on-one
02:22:17and they get all excited.
02:22:19And do you get excited too?
02:22:23Does your nervous system-
02:22:24- Well, by design, aren't you saying that you would?
02:22:29You're saying that somebody's nervous system
02:22:30is affecting other people's.
02:22:31- They are, but there's vagal authority,
02:22:33which is whose nervous system is dictating the room.
02:22:35- Oh, it's the alpha of the nervous system.
02:22:37- I did think about that.
02:22:38He's doing it in a much more embodied way, but yeah, kind of.
02:22:41It's like, who is the alpha from a vagal perspective?
02:22:46Somebody gets all excited, do you stay calm?
02:22:48And do they come back down?
02:22:50Somebody gets all excited and do you go and meet them?
02:22:51- Well, that's just co-regulation, right?
02:22:53- It is, but it seems to be, at least in Joe's language,
02:22:57it was one person tends to own that more.
02:23:02And now what I didn't ask him and I should have done,
02:23:04what I love is when you have sufficiently low,
02:23:10sufficiently high humility or low ego, where you can go,
02:23:12okay, this is your turn to have the vagal authority.
02:23:16So there was a moment where we got silly
02:23:18and there's a moment where you get to be excited,
02:23:21but then sometimes you don't have that.
02:23:24You're not on the same frequency quite so much
02:23:26and you're a little bit more here.
02:23:27And then you need to be, at least I found,
02:23:30a bit more blunt.
02:23:33- Yeah, you said, let me get back to the thing.
02:23:35- Yeah, a bit more blunt with your vagal authority,
02:23:38but even not doing it verbally,
02:23:39even just being like, I've done it in episodes
02:23:41where I've been able to tell that somebody's nervous,
02:23:44and instead of me sort of matching that speed
02:23:47of being really quick, I've been like taking a purposeful
02:23:52like three-second break.
02:23:55They've finished talking or they've asked me a question.
02:23:57I'm like, hmm.
02:24:00- I would think if somebody was nervous
02:24:01and the person opposite them stopped talking
02:24:04and just went, hmm, that would make them like more nervous.
02:24:07- If they ask a question, if it's a statement,
02:24:09that's a bad idea.
02:24:10If it's a question, it's good.
02:24:11So if they say-
02:24:12- So you're taking in their question.
02:24:13- And I'm going, ah.
02:24:15- Reverse Riz or whatever you called it.
02:24:19- Reverse Riz, yeah, yeah, yeah.
02:24:20- You know what's interesting?
02:24:21I've never been asked that question before.
02:24:24It's almost like you're giving that, right?
02:24:25- Exactly.
02:24:26- Like you're an unbelievable question-
02:24:27- Allow me to give what you've just said so much respect
02:24:32that I'm genuinely gonna consider,
02:24:35and also take a fucking second
02:24:38to chill your nervous system out, dude,
02:24:39'cause like you're a little bit up here and we can-
02:24:43- Yeah, you know, that sounds better
02:24:46than what I would do is probably, you seem nervous.
02:24:48- Yes, yes, yes, yes.
02:24:50So this is you breaking the rules of the game
02:24:52or calling them out and me trying to play within them.
02:24:55I'm like, how, and mine is-
02:24:58- One could work when the other doesn't and vice versa.
02:25:00- I think so.
02:25:01Rick Glassman, ladies and gentlemen.
02:25:02Dude, you're awesome.
02:25:03I appreciate the fuck out of you.
02:25:04- Thanks, man.
02:25:05- This was cool.
02:25:06Thanks for having me.
02:25:07What a big podcast that you included me on
02:25:08with all your fun star guests.
02:25:11- Yeah, where should people go?
02:25:12They want to check out everything that you're doing.
02:25:13You on tour?
02:25:14Are you doing tour?
02:25:16- Yes, and I have to set up all the new dates.
02:25:19I only have a few more cities left.
02:25:21I'm in Vegas, Cleveland, and Phoenix.
02:25:24Punchup.live/rickglassman.
02:25:26You can sign up for my email list.
02:25:28The only time I email you
02:25:29is if I'm coming within 50 miles of your city.
02:25:31I'm setting up my tour for next year now.
02:25:34And my podcast is called "Take Your Shoes Off."
02:25:36If there's anything that I tell people
02:25:38that I'm the most proud of to watch, it's that.
02:25:42- What episodes should people start with?
02:25:44- Well, I don't know if this is the best starting episode,
02:25:49but my favorite episodes of recent are...
02:25:52I guess a good starting episode
02:25:53would maybe be David Cornerswett, who plays Superman.
02:25:57That's fun because it has a lot of silliness,
02:25:59but it's also very connected in what we talk about.
02:26:03But right now, I've had Paul Rudd on twice.
02:26:06Paul Rudd 1.0 and 2.0 are probably my favorite
02:26:09because I didn't know him before the podcast
02:26:10and it ended up becoming something that I almost didn't post
02:26:14'cause in the second Paul Rudd one, something happened
02:26:17and I asked him and he let me post it.
02:26:19But yeah, it's wild.
02:26:22It's weird.
02:26:23But that's probably what I would recommend people watching.
02:26:26- I think that doing it in the living room
02:26:28is definitely creating a sense of disarming in that way
02:26:33that allows people to sort of drop in and that connection.
02:26:36- And it's called "Take Your Shoes Off"
02:26:38and almost everybody who I've never met,
02:26:41even if they're not a comedian,
02:26:42they take their shoes off or they come in
02:26:44and they give me a little bit of a jab.
02:26:46I've noticed this recently.
02:26:47I'm like, oh, this isn't like,
02:26:49oh, you want me to take your shoes off down here?
02:26:50Like, what are you afraid I'm gonna get mud all over the place?
02:26:51Whatever it is, nothing mean.
02:26:53They acknowledge that I had to take their shoes,
02:26:55they have to take their shoes off
02:26:56and it's my fault, you know?
02:26:59And they like call me.
02:27:00And I also, I was thinking about this recently,
02:27:02where like, oh, they're comfortable right away
02:27:05because I'm saying I'm showing a weakness of mine
02:27:09and asking for their help.
02:27:11Will you take your shoes?
02:27:12I used to make people wash their hands when they come in.
02:27:14Like before I got a dog, I mean,
02:27:16there was no unprotected sex.
02:27:18But anyway, I'm lingering, I'm having fun.
02:27:20- They're farting on their fucking couch.
02:27:22- But yeah, people come in, they have to take their shoes off.
02:27:23They see that I am, 'cause I make a lot of jokes
02:27:27and like, I could be a bit aggressive,
02:27:29but they see me right away as saying,
02:27:30hey, I need your help with something.
02:27:32I have OCD, will you sit on this thing
02:27:34and take your shoes off?
02:27:35And they feel like, oh, okay,
02:27:36I can maybe now show him my things,
02:27:38which was an accident that I think,
02:27:40like a lot of times when people have OCD,
02:27:43they'll let you me know right away
02:27:45at the beginning of an episode.
02:27:46And they'll tell me their things because they saw mine.
02:27:49Does that make sense? - That's awesome, that's awesome.
02:27:50- All right, I'm lingering, I'm having fun.
02:27:52The caffeine's still in, thanks for having me.
02:27:53- Appreciate you.
02:27:54Thank you very much for tuning in.
02:27:56Farting in bed and on your house,
02:27:59all over your house, farting all over your house.
02:28:02What a revelation.
02:28:04Another revelation, Jimmy Carr, British revelation.
02:28:08Go and watch him.