21 Harsh Truths About Why You’re Still Lost - Mark Manson
CChris Williamson
Mental HealthAdult EducationMarriageComputing/Software
Transcript
00:00:00"The most important skill in the 21st century is the ability to live happily with uncertainty."
00:00:06Yeah, I mean, do you know what's going on?
00:00:11Almost never.
00:00:13I mean, you, millions of people, like, tune in to listen to you to try to figure out what's going on, and you still don't know what's going on.
00:00:19So it's, if you and I can't figure it out, like, I think we're all pretty...
00:00:24It is interesting that, like, as access to information scales, the certainty and the confidence around that information, like, dissipates.
00:00:36I feel like everybody is, feels less moored to reality than ever before, despite the fact that we have access to everything 24/7, which is, like, a very weird paradox.
00:00:49I think it's, it's, there's a deep human instinct to seek out certainty, to find a certain set of beliefs and assumptions that you can kind of, like, hang your hat on and build your life around.
00:01:02And I think it's becoming harder than it's ever been before, and I think, as a result, developing kind of the cognitive flexibility to live in ambiguity is probably more important than it's ever been.
00:01:17What happens if you can't deal with uncertainty?
00:01:20Then you will over-index on one single belief, right? So you'll become radical about one idea.
00:01:30You'll, you'll basically put all of your kind of emotional well-being into a single concept or a single world, worldview.
00:01:38And the danger of that is just that, like, any, every worldview is going to get blown up at a certain point.
00:01:44Like, nothing survives contact with reality.
00:01:47So when you are forced, you know, when, when that worldview gets contradicted, you're either going to suffer immensely or you're going to have to double down the delusion to maintain the certainty.
00:01:59Anxiety is all about uncertainty. It's about trying to compress uncertainty down.
00:02:05I don't know what's going to happen in future. If I can imagine all of the different ways that the future might unfold, especially the really bad ones, I'll be able to plan and war game.
00:02:18And that means that when it happens, I'll be ready.
00:02:21You know, there's a, it's a really strange comment on how humans' brains work, that we would rather imagine a catastrophe than deal with uncertainty.
00:02:31Yes.
00:02:32You think about, you think about it as thinking in superpositions, right?
00:02:37People would rather collapse the superposition down into something that maybe even breaks the laws of physics.
00:02:43Your dead grandma comes back from the grave to tell you off for this thing that you did.
00:02:48There's entire supernatural shits going on.
00:02:50That's what you would rather have in your mind than I don't know what's going to happen.
00:02:56Right.
00:02:59It's interesting to like what you described about anxiety, that kind of that treadmill that you get on right of like trying to predict future outcomes in the process of trying to predict those outcomes, trying to be become certain about what's going to happen.
00:03:13You actually just inadvertently build more surface area for more uncertainty because every, everything you try to project into the future, you just create more opportunities for that to be wrong.
00:03:25Yes.
00:03:26And so it's interesting because I think, I think actually like the antidote to this, it's more of like an aperture issue, right?
00:03:33It's, I think instead of trying to be certain about very specific, small, narrow things, it's better to try to zoom out until you find a place of confidence, right?
00:03:43So like, just take like AI, for instance, right?
00:03:48Everybody's freaking out about it.
00:03:49Everybody's got, you know, some people think the world's going to end.
00:03:52Some people think that everybody's going to lose their jobs.
00:03:54Some people think like China's going to take over everything.
00:03:57I have no idea if any of those things are true, but like if I zoom out broadly enough and you just look at every major technological revolution throughout human history, there is disruption.
00:04:08There is some displacement, but like society adapts and moves on.
00:04:14And so if I zoom out to that wide of an aperture, suddenly I feel some degree of certainty that we're going to be okay in the macro.
00:04:23But in the micro, right, of like, are you and I going to have jobs in two years?
00:04:28Less certainty about that.
00:04:33Yeah, it's a kind of fragility to need a lot of certainty because what you're saying is I can't deal with something that I can't anticipate.
00:04:43I don't have enough robustness in my system.
00:04:45If something happens that I haven't planned for, the only way that I can survive the future is if I've already prepared for it.
00:04:53And that's the opposite of robustness or, you know, the best antifragility.
00:04:58Look at COVID.
00:05:00COVID, everybody's lives during COVID basically forked into one of two directions.
00:05:05People either went way off the rails or people's lives got stupendously better.
00:05:11That's it. There wasn't really anyone that was like, yeah, you know, COVID was okay.
00:05:15Ticked over and stuff really didn't show.
00:05:18You know, my trajectory stayed the same.
00:05:20That was like a lifestyle Rorschach test that everybody took.
00:05:25Everybody looked at it and some people went in one direction and some people went in the other.
00:05:30And a lot of it is you just got dealt a fucking shitty hand, dude.
00:05:35You know, like that, that hospitality job that you were just about to take that was going to change your life.
00:05:41I'm really sorry, that fucking, that blew.
00:05:43Or that SaaS company that you were about to start.
00:05:46Like, yeah, I mean, you timed the shit out of the market.
00:05:48Well done for incorporating in 2019 and having everything ready to work from home remotely.
00:05:52Yeah.
00:05:53It's interesting.
00:05:54Like, so one of my fans recently asked me a question about confidence and about like people who seem self-assured.
00:06:04And kind of every situation.
00:06:07And it's interesting because I think, you know, when you hear a lot of confidence advice.
00:06:11You hear, you know, you need to fail at something in a certain amount of times and you need to build evidence, right?
00:06:17That you're capable of handling setbacks and obstacles and all these things.
00:06:22And it's interesting because I think it kind of like confidence actually operates on two different dimensions.
00:06:28There's like state confidence and trait confidence, right?
00:06:30And so you can put yourself in situations where you feel some degree of certainty, like you've done a thousand podcasts, right?
00:06:37So it's like if a fucking light blows up right here, like you're probably going to figure it out and be fine.
00:06:42And you're not going to worry about it.
00:06:44But there is an interesting aspect of like kind of a broader trait confidence of just living enough of your life in that uncertainty.
00:06:55Being in enough situations where you felt out of control, but things turned out fine.
00:07:00That I don't think you can plan or predict for.
00:07:04It's like almost by definition, you have to live through things not going as planned to build that like deeper level, trait level confidence.
00:07:14Yeah, that's the dark night of the soul thing.
00:07:16The worst thing that's ever happened to you is the worst thing that's ever happened to you.
00:07:19It's like difficulty exposure therapy.
00:07:23Oh, I've been here before and I didn't die.
00:07:26That means I can probably be there again and things will go okay.
00:07:29But if you haven't been there before and it happens, if a pandemic comes along again, everybody, apart from five-year-olds, are prepared way more.
00:07:37Okay, I understand what's going to happen here.
00:07:39Like I lock myself in the house, I'll probably invest in some companies that have these, you know, like distributed sites.
00:07:44Buy Zoom stock.
00:07:45Yeah, buy Zoom stock.
00:07:46You know that when COVID happened, there was another company called Zoom whose ticker is very close to the proper one.
00:07:53And their share price went up by like 400%.
00:07:55It's some Chinese company, like just by fortune of being called the same thing.
00:07:59All right, next one.
00:08:00Yeah.
00:08:01Do hard shit.
00:08:02Not because it's fun, but because the win actually means something.
00:08:06You bled for it.
00:08:07You broke for it.
00:08:08You earned it.
00:08:09Easy wins are forgettable.
00:08:11Hard ones change you.
00:08:12That's the point.
00:08:16I've been thinking a lot about this concept recently of like how there's an inverse relationship between convenience and significance.
00:08:26Like I think we tend to only appreciate things that require some degree of friction or sacrifice.
00:08:35And I mean, look, there's the classic reason to do hard things, which is kind of what we just, you know, it's like you build resilience and you, you know, you build up your endurance and self-belief and confidence and all these things.
00:08:46But I've been thinking a lot about this more from like kind of an existential meaning lens of that when things are just handed to you, you take them for granted.
00:08:59It's human nature.
00:09:00And so if there are a lot of results in your life, if we are all kind of accumulating more and more results and outputs in our life that are kind of just handed to us by technology, you know, fucking burrito taxis coming anytime we want.
00:09:15Like it's, it's in one way, it's kind of robbing us for opportunities of significance. And I'm, maybe it's because I'm 40 now, but I'm like, I'm like starting, I'm starting to develop this like interest in intentionally introducing friction back into my life in certain ways.
00:09:39I actually had a conversation with my wife last night where like, she was telling me, she said that one of her childhood friends sent her some voice notes and it's like, she was going through all this shit.
00:09:49Like her kid was having problems. Her business partner was like, you know, just completely checked out. Huge fight with like her ex-husband, all this stuff.
00:10:01And my wife was like, do you want to talk? And her friend was like, I never even considered, like, I didn't want to bother you or, you know, you're busy or whatever.
00:10:11And then of course they got on the phone, they talked for like an hour and a half and it was like this great kind of reconnection in this moment.
00:10:17But my wife and I were talking last night about like how just that reluctance to even like actually call somebody without permission, without like establishing, okay, I sent a text and then I asked if I can call.
00:10:33It's, we're, we're also like hung up on it's an, the phone is annoying. It's annoying. Like when the phone rings, it's annoying to like have to deal with calls that we've like robbed ourselves of that friction that actually builds like the, the connective tissue of our relationships, right?
00:10:50Because you can't reproduce that intimacy through like voice notes or text messages or anything. So like that's a very superficial example, but like we're surrounded by those superficial examples 24/7.
00:11:02Is this making any sense?
00:11:03Absolutely. I didn't know where you were going at the start, but you really brought it back into Lantha. The, the inconvenience of a friendship is exactly where it grows from.
00:11:12Yeah.
00:11:13It's the definition of safety. The best definition of safety that's been formally given to me is we can go through something hard and come out the other side okay.
00:11:23Mm-hmm.
00:11:24The best definition of personal safety and sovereignty is I'm okay no matter what happens, which is something similar. It's a relationship with yourself, a relationship with somebody else.
00:11:33Yeah.
00:11:34But you have to, how do you know that you're safe if you haven't gone through something difficult with somebody?
00:11:40Mm-hmm.
00:11:41It's the same thing as Jordan Peterson's idea about you're not being noble if you're unable to be harmful. You're just being harmless.
00:11:50Right.
00:11:51A rabbit doesn't choose, actually rabbits can be bastards, but a rabbit doesn't choose to be harmless, right? It just doesn't have very many weapons.
00:11:58Sure.
00:11:59But that line between significance and convenience I think is so fucking right. And I've been thinking about this a lot. I'm sure that you, you write a lot of things, you need to produce stuff, everybody in one way or another is probably using AI to assist them with their workflow.
00:12:16And what I've noticed is that there's certain things that it's robbed me of the enjoyment of in completion, even as it's made completing it easier and maybe better.
00:12:27Right.
00:12:28And then you start to ask yourself a deep question, which is what am I doing it for?
00:12:32Right.
00:12:33Am I doing it for the outcome? Because I can speed run the outcome.
00:12:36Right.
00:12:37Well, kind of, but also kind of not, what I'm doing is I'm doing this thing for the way that I feel when I have finished it.
00:12:47That's really what I'm doing it for. Because let's say that you could create some prompt in ChatGPT, thank you to our partner ChatGPT, and that would create videos on your channel.
00:13:04Let's say they're even derivative of your work, that it's not using anybody else's work, but it was able to get a new channel of yours to a million subscribers in four weeks.
00:13:13Yeah.
00:13:14And you just put it in and you're like, oh, amazing, it's my work, right? So it's still you, but the process of getting there wasn't that challenging.
00:13:23Right.
00:13:24I don't think, I don't think that you would feel that satisfied. Think about how satisfied you were when your book actually gets completed by you, by hand, in the before time.
00:13:34Yeah. And it's like, I struggle with this too, because I'm generally like a very technology, pro technology person who owns an AI company.
00:13:41Yeah. So it's, but I, I think of it, like when you were talking, the thing that came to mind is it's kind of like playing a video game with cheat codes, right?
00:13:52It's fun for a minute. You're like, oh, I'm like crushing everything. This is awesome. But then when you beat it, it's not satisfying.
00:13:58And it's almost like most of the technological innovation of say the last 20 years has just been adding little cheat codes to all these areas of our lives.
00:14:07And it has made everything more seamless, frictionless, convenient, faster, more efficient, but it's like robbing the satisfaction of like doing.
00:14:19Which is the reason that you do it. You do it for the emotional state of having done it. Now, hopefully having done it well, hopefully having done it in a way that makes other people's lives better and is popular, maybe gets you some money too.
00:14:31But all of those things only matter in as much as you can link your effort to that outcome.
00:14:38Yes. And I think part of it too is, is that it's, it's causing us to mistake the convenience and efficiency for what, why we're doing it, right?
00:14:49Like, I think, for example, like I think this dating is probably the most egregious example of this, right? If you, if you look at just the state of the dating apps, they're completely optimized for convenience of introduction.
00:15:03And on the surface, if you're a single person, like that sounds like a great deal, but in the, in the process of like mass matching people out of convenience, you are losing that friction.
00:15:17And that, and that the struggle, which is essentially the filtration system for who's actually going to be a good partner for you, which also creates the significance in the connection too.
00:15:26And that's that bottom line, easy wins are forgettable. And that's the thing. You look back on your life and you say, wow, I don't actually know how I got here.
00:15:35I mean, it's great. And I look at all of the things I have. Isn't that wonderful? I think about this people that got, became millionaires, deckers, center millionaires through crypto.
00:15:45How deranging must that be? Completely deranging. The same way as somebody who's poor winning the lottery. In many ways, that could be one of the worst days of their life when they look back.
00:15:56So you go, wow, that was completely unmoored, untethered to my existing perspective of reality. I'm never going to have a day that's that good again.
00:16:07It's like, it's like having never done cocaine and then deciding one day to complete like a Charlie Sheen size dose of it. You go, well, I'm not conditioned.
00:16:18I wasn't, I didn't build up my tolerance for this and I don't have the story and the narrative. And that's what we live in. Humans live in these narratives.
00:16:24Yeah. Yeah. There's also like, there's a skill aspect of this too, right? Like, especially with around money and relationships. Like I think part of the issue with the app driven dating culture is that there's a lot of just simple, basic dating skills that you build and optimize through like actually speaking face to face with lots and lots of people, especially people who are not very interested in you.
00:16:53And I imagine you have a lot of experience with that. Oh yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. The, and the interesting thing, you know, there's this stat around lottery winners where like the majority of them end up broke, lots of them end up depressed, a lot, number of them commit suicide.
00:17:10And I think a lot of it too is, is that there's this, this, there's a skill set around money, right? Which is like, okay, you have a lot of money. There's a lot of bad ways to manage that money. There are a lot of bad decisions. There's a lot of bad habits around money that you've like never developed because you never climbed the mountain steadily over a long period of time. You were just like airdropped to the peak. And so clearly you just fall off.
00:17:34Well, the stupid thing is we don't know what technology we have now that had it have not been there, we would have preferred our lives in the past. There was a, I think the typewriter came in partway through Nietzsche's life and his writing changed. Interesting.
00:17:52When he, the typewriter came along, previously he was writing by hand. And then after that, his sentences got shorter, his writing style changed. And I wonder how many people when the typewriter came along said, well, without the quill, it's going to change all of these things. Now that's not to say that some technologies can't unlock creativity and unlock your access to difficulty.
00:18:12There's unnecessary challenge, but it certainly feels to me like if there's a bell curve of where the optimal point is or the area under the curve, we are way overshooting it now that a single prompt can basically spit out a passable piece of work.
00:18:24All that being said, I do think that the advent of AI opens up for everybody. AI basically regresses you back to the mean, but that's what it is. It's optimizing for the mean.
00:18:36So if you're worse than, if you're in the bottom 50% of anything, AI will make you better. If you're in the top 50% of anything, AI makes you worse. And if you're trying to do anything, you shouldn't be doing it if you're in the bottom 50%. So presumably it's actually dragging you back.
00:18:53Yeah. Yeah. I think the tricky thing with all of this whole concept, all these technologies is what happens is that it becomes incumbent upon us individually to go find the new difficulty.
00:19:08Choose hard. Exactly. Right. So it's like using AI, but also pushing yourself to still do something original or unique or have original ideas. And it's, and the problem is, it's just like, it's, it's really against our, you know, our nature is to always choose the last, the path of least resistance.
00:19:31And, um, so it's like very hard to develop that muscle. And I think a lot of people just don't have that muscle. Choose hard, dude. All right. Next one. Yep.
00:19:39A quick aside, there is a stat that genuinely surprised me when I first heard it. 95% of people don't get enough fiber. Not because they're being careless, but because hitting your daily fiber target through food alone is actually quite hard.
00:19:52But that's why momentous built fiber plus see fiber. Isn't just a digestion thing. It's the foundation of your gut health, which drives how well you absorb nutrients, how stable your energy is and how quickly you recover.
00:20:05If your gut isn't dialed in everything else that you're doing is working at a fraction of its potential fiber plus is a three in one formula built to address digestion, gut barrier, strength, and blood sugar stability all at once.
00:20:16And this cinnamon flavor is unreal. You might think fiber. Wow. I bet that tastes great. Well, yeah, actually it does. Doubters. I really enjoyed this. Best of all momentous offers a 30 day money back guarantee.
00:20:29So if you're not sure you can buy fiber plus try it for 29 days. If you don't love it, they'll just give you your money back and they ship internationally right now.
00:20:36You can get up to 35% off your first subscription and that 30 day money back guarantee by going to the link in the description below or heading to live momentous.com/modernwisdom and using the code modern wisdom at checkout.
00:20:47That's L I V E M O M E N T O U S.com/modernwisdom and modern wisdom at checkout.
00:20:55When you select a partner, whether you realize it or not, you're choosing a whole lifestyle and not just the person.
00:21:01You're choosing their sleep schedule. You're choosing their money habits. You're choosing their stress levels, their family drama, their levels of cleanliness, their work ethic, their coping mechanisms.
00:21:09All of these things will be a baseline of your daily life. If their normal is doom scrolling till 2 a.m., avoiding all conflict, impulse spending, and never exercising.
00:21:18Guess what? You're signing up to live in that ecosystem. Love does not cancel out people's flaws. In fact, love just makes you tolerate them for longer.
00:21:27Most people obsess over, do we have romantic chemistry? And they completely skip, can I live with this person's version of a Tuesday for the next 10 years?
00:21:37The hard truth is you don't fix somebody's lifestyle from the inside. You either accept the package as they are or you walk.
00:21:45I've been having, I've been having this conversation with a lot of single friends recently of what I'm, what I am noticing is that people tend, seem to have kind of this laundry list of requirements.
00:22:01And as soon as they, and there's this also this false perception of infinite options. And so as soon as the person that they're seeing or that they're on a date with like fails one of the qualifications, they're like, oh, next, I'm going to move on.
00:22:18And then of course they're, you know, 45 and still single and wondering why they never found anybody.
00:22:24And have you ever heard that story that I think it, I think it was Warren Buffett where he said that he was like, you know, you, you write out a list of 20 things that you want in your life.
00:22:36Put them in order from the thing that's most important, least important, and then cross out everything but the top three.
00:22:42I've essentially started giving that exercise to my single friends because I'm like, you're not going to find all of these and it's, you've been brainwashed. You have this like false perception that there's a lot of these people out there that tick every single box.
00:22:58And there's not, and you're probably, even if there is, you're probably not going to meet them.
00:23:02And if you do meet them, they're going to have so many options that it's going to be like very unlikely that you end up with them.
00:23:07So it's find your three non-negotiables and then negotiate on the rest.
00:23:13And that's like fucking sacrilege these days to tell people because they're like, I don't want to settle.
00:23:17Sounds like settling.
00:23:18Yeah, I don't want to settle.
00:23:19It's like, dude, everybody settles on something.
00:23:22I mean, you're settling in that you can't fly at the moment.
00:23:25Yeah.
00:23:26You know, you're settling in that you need to go to bed every night.
00:23:28Yeah.
00:23:29I mean, dude, there's things that I've been with my wife for 14 years.
00:23:31There's things about her that still drive me fucking crazy.
00:23:34And, but I.
00:23:35She's like Latina, right?
00:23:37Well, yeah.
00:23:38Yeah.
00:23:39So that kind of comes, that's part of the course.
00:23:40It's yes.
00:23:41It's part for every course, but it's the Latina, the Latino versions are just much more dramatic.
00:23:48Very loud.
00:23:49With lots of tears.
00:23:50Spicy.
00:23:51It's a spicy version.
00:23:52It's the Fuego version.
00:23:53Exactly.
00:23:54It's Fuego dating.
00:23:55Exactly.
00:23:56But there's things about me that like she can't stand, but it's like you just accept at a certain point.
00:24:01You're like, okay, the good vastly outweighs the bad and you go with it.
00:24:05And I think the reason that posted so well is, you know, when you are meeting people,
00:24:15when you are dating people, there's this whole kind of like iceberg under the water of traits
00:24:23and characteristics and personality and connections and relationships that you're not really aware
00:24:30of that they're there.
00:24:32But that's actually going to be the majority of the relationship.
00:24:35Correct.
00:24:36And really most people are kind of just going on vibes, you know, when they're, when they're
00:24:41dating somebody.
00:24:44And so I just think it's helpful to be like explicitly conscious about it and understand
00:24:48like, okay, if, if her mother's crazy, like, and you want to marry her, like you're going
00:24:53to have a crazy mother-in-law for 40 years, lock in for some crazy.
00:24:57Exactly.
00:24:58And put it on the plate because it's part of the course.
00:25:01You can't, you can't only, it's not a buffet.
00:25:04You don't just take the items you want.
00:25:05You got to take, it's the whole prefix menu.
00:25:08You know what the original name for this podcast was going to be?
00:25:11What's that?
00:25:12Crushing a Tuesday.
00:25:13The reason for that, glad that I didn't do it.
00:25:16Another one was Mind and Matter and another one was Brain and Brawn.
00:25:21And it was, they were horrible.
00:25:23Modern wisdom was divine inspiration that came to me at three in the morning.
00:25:26Yeah, much better.
00:25:27Thank you.
00:25:28Crushing a Tuesday is not bad.
00:25:29Crushing a Tuesday was taken from a Tim Ferriss podcast.
00:25:32And what he said was most people try to optimize their lives around peak experiences, but your
00:25:38life is made up of average Tuesdays.
00:25:40And your goal should be to make your average Tuesday as enjoyable as possible.
00:25:44And that's what you're talking about here, that what people look at is the amazing sex
00:25:51or the fascinating conversation.
00:25:54They don't realize what is this person like normally?
00:25:59What is the middle of their bell curve of just how they operate?
00:26:03What do they do?
00:26:07With the most frequent interaction between them and reality, what do they do with their
00:26:12diet?
00:26:13That's pretty important.
00:26:14What do they do with their sleep pattern?
00:26:15That's pretty important.
00:26:16These are structural things.
00:26:17How do they deal with discomfort?
00:26:18How do they deal with things when they're hot?
00:26:19How do they deal when they're dysregulated?
00:26:21So they're family-like.
00:26:22What are their timelines like?
00:26:24Are your timelines moving in the same direction?
00:26:29And that is what's the relationship with money like?
00:26:33That is what you are signing up for.
00:26:35And that line, "Love does not cancel out people's flaws.
00:26:38In fact, it just makes you tolerate it for longer."
00:26:42Which is what's deranging to a lot of people that they get into a relationship with somebody
00:26:45who isn't right for them or isn't good for them.
00:26:49And the capacity of their love, the intensity of their love just allows them to stay in something
00:26:55which isn't right for even longer.
00:26:58And I think that people often feel guilty about having optimized for romantic chemistry when
00:27:04what they should have been optimizing for is Tuesday evening with this person enjoyable.
00:27:10Right.
00:27:11And it's easy to optimize for that romantic chemistry because that's what you're flooded
00:27:15with when you meet somebody you really like.
00:27:18So that's what you're going to be biased towards.
00:27:19And I should add, so it's funny cause I think I've posted a couple variations of this post
00:27:26over the years and every time there's always like a couple angry people in the comments
00:27:33who are like, "This is unrealistic.
00:27:36You shouldn't expect somebody to satisfy all these things for you."
00:27:40And the point of this isn't that you have to go find somebody who has a mother that you
00:27:44like and who's like good with money.
00:27:46The opposite of that.
00:27:47No, it's like it's you have to find somebody that you're willing to tolerate all of those
00:27:51things, right?
00:27:52So it's not, they're not trying to hit a ceiling like you're just trying to find somebody who's
00:27:58like nothing falls below your floor.
00:28:01And it's also, I think a lot of it, there are a couple other facets of this.
00:28:05I think one is understanding that what you, what are you particularly well equipped to
00:28:12handle?
00:28:13So for example, my wife's Brazilian, she has a lot of feelings.
00:28:19And I'm just like very even keeled pretty much all the time.
00:28:24It really takes a lot for me to get worked up about anything.
00:28:28Like I'm, I'm the guy who doesn't give a fuck.
00:28:30So it actually works extremely well.
00:28:33Like I can handle a lot of emotions.
00:28:35It doesn't really freak me out.
00:28:36I don't like get sucked into drama easily.
00:28:40So there's like a certain amount of self knowledge of understanding this is the type of partner
00:28:46that I'm probably well suited for because my strength kind of resonates well with their
00:28:52weakness or vice versa.
00:28:55Whereas like my, you know, I, I have a very, very like strong need for intellectual stimulation.
00:29:04I get bored extremely easily.
00:29:07And back when I was single, like I, I dated a lot of really cool girls, but who just like
00:29:11weren't super smart or curious.
00:29:13And I, I was bored within minutes and some of them were smoking hot.
00:29:17Some of them were awesome in bed.
00:29:19And I, I remember sitting there being like, I can't believe I'm going to break up with
00:29:22this girl.
00:29:23Like she's, what am I doing?
00:29:24But I was bored.
00:29:25Got nothing to talk to you about.
00:29:26Yeah.
00:29:27I was bored out of my mind.
00:29:28Your first date with your now wife was, you met in a nightclub and within 30 minutes we're
00:29:33talking about Russian literature?
00:29:35Russian grammar.
00:29:36That's it.
00:29:37You know?
00:29:38Yes.
00:29:39I told you about this last time that my best piece of advice for sort of the intellectual
00:29:44bros or the intellectually inclined bros when they're single is to speed run sending weird
00:29:50psychology articles to the girls that you're talking to and to just see who comes back.
00:29:55It's like an intellectual shit test.
00:29:56Yes.
00:29:57And you're not looking for the smart ones.
00:29:58You're looking for the ones that engage.
00:29:59Right.
00:30:00Oh, that's cool.
00:30:01Never, never heard of that before.
00:30:02Like let's talk about that the next time we get on the phone or next time we go for dinner.
00:30:04Yeah.
00:30:05Even if they don't know anything about it.
00:30:06That's not what it's about.
00:30:07Okay.
00:30:08Can I, is this person interested?
00:30:09They're going to engage with me.
00:30:10So yeah, I think it's funny, Rory Sutherland's got this idea.
00:30:16He says you should have an air fryer girlfriend, not a Fiat 500 girlfriend.
00:30:20And what he means by that is you want to find somebody who only you can see the value in,
00:30:29in a way that other people can't and who have disadvantages that only you can tolerate in
00:30:35a way that other people can't.
00:30:36So if you have an air fryer, for instance, it's going to stank up the kitchen.
00:30:41If you're sensitive to smells, it's going to be a bad thing to have in your house.
00:30:44Or else you're going to have to put it out on the balcony or in the garage or something
00:30:47like that.
00:30:48And that's a bit of a nightmare to you.
00:30:49Not that bothered about smells.
00:30:50You can have your entire life's calories go through one machine.
00:30:56He uses the example that he doesn't mind noise when he goes to sleep.
00:31:02He's a fan of trains and he likes beer.
00:31:05So he lived in a house that was next to a pub with a garden that backs onto a railway line
00:31:11because he quite likes the trains.
00:31:12They're actually actively sort of enjoyable for him to see going by.
00:31:16He doesn't mind that much about the noise from them or from the beer garden.
00:31:19And he's made good friends to the landlord of the pub and it means that he can order a
00:31:23beer by leaning over his fence and asking for it and he can sort of enjoy the atmosphere
00:31:29of the pub from the comfort of his own home.
00:31:32What he's done is he's been able to get a house, I think it's his cottage that's somewhere
00:31:36in the British countryside.
00:31:38He's been able to get that at a price that most other people would still think was too
00:31:42much despite the fact that it's discounted because there are certain inconveniences and
00:31:48challenges that he is particularly well equipped to put up with that other people would struggle
00:31:54with.
00:31:55And the same thing is true when it comes to choosing a partner.
00:31:57Can we dig into this a little bit?
00:31:58Because I feel like-
00:31:59FRI a girlfriend?
00:32:00Well, I'll let you know how that goes over with my wife.
00:32:04I'm going to go home after this.
00:32:06Darling, darling.
00:32:07You're my air fryer.
00:32:08You're my air fryer wife.
00:32:09You're my air fryer.
00:32:10I can cook everything in you.
00:32:12Well, I mean, she is Brazilian, so they're highly fertile.
00:32:16Yes.
00:32:17But it's, and especially like you, you come more from this optimization world than I do.
00:32:23But the person, like the personalization of optimization, like this is the thing that-
00:32:30it always bugged me about a lot of the optimization content out there because everybody's so different
00:32:35in terms of what they want and who they are and like what they're predisposed to.
00:32:41And I think the same way, like some people are more predisposed to certain athletic activities
00:32:46or certain physical activities than others, we're all predisposed to like certain psychological
00:32:52environments and certain types of relationships than other people.
00:32:57And I just, it drives me crazy that there's like no accounting for that often.
00:33:02Like there's no discussion of how it's, yeah, living next to a train track where you can
00:33:08order a beer over a fence is like that might actually be optimal for one person's life.
00:33:14Whereas you would never see that like broadcasts on, you know, health and fitness.
00:33:20This is the optimal way that you should get your house.
00:33:23Look at all of the advantages.
00:33:24Well, we know that those advantages are so niche that it only addresses a very small cohort
00:33:30of people.
00:33:31Right.
00:33:32But the assumption here is all optimization advice is optimizing for-
00:33:36For the general.
00:33:37Exactly.
00:33:38Yeah.
00:33:39You know that study about they tried to engineer fighter pilot seats inside of US fighter jets,
00:33:45a new US fighter jet.
00:33:46They took all of the fighter pilots and averaged their body dimensions so that they could design
00:33:51the seat that was the average of them all.
00:33:54Right.
00:33:55Fitted zero pilots.
00:33:56There's no such thing as average.
00:33:57Right.
00:33:58There is no such thing.
00:33:59The average person literally doesn't exist.
00:34:00They're an aggregate of everything.
00:34:01But I mean, let's say for instance, that you had a distribution of people on a graph that
00:34:06looked like a pair of boobs.
00:34:07Okay.
00:34:08Right.
00:34:09So you have sort of two there.
00:34:10Yeah.
00:34:11Where's the average?
00:34:12It's actually at a point where maybe nobody is.
00:34:13Nobody is there.
00:34:14Yeah.
00:34:15You know?
00:34:16Yeah.
00:34:17So this is the problem with doing it.
00:34:18And I understand like sweeping generalizations about advice is something that I've always
00:34:20steered away from when I can.
00:34:23Yeah.
00:34:24And that's something that I've done massively to the detriment of my credibility.
00:34:26Because I don't know the things that are massively to the detriment of my credibility as well.
00:34:32But one of the reasons is people love certainty.
00:34:35They love absolutes, they love certainty.
00:34:38And this goes back to the fact that uncertainty is very difficult to deal with.
00:34:42If I listen to someone who says, well, we know, we know that this is the case.
00:34:47We know what Israel is doing.
00:34:49We know how much protein you should have per day.
00:34:51We know what the best sleep formula is.
00:34:54You go, well, fucking hell, like I don't need to worry anymore.
00:34:57All the chaos of the world, all of the different directions that things could have gone in.
00:35:02I don't need to wrangle with that.
00:35:05Yeah.
00:35:06And it's way less sexy to say, well, it's directionally correct that it seems to be the case.
00:35:13In most circumstances, I would estimate that it is good to, it's way less sexy, but it's
00:35:19much more accurate for people if you're the sort of person.
00:35:22And this is why for the whole podcast, and I see this all the time, when people get pissy
00:35:26about some piece of advice that's been put forward, especially when it's been caveated.
00:35:31Well, the outlier actually, I think you'll find, it's like, hey dude, if this is not for
00:35:37you, that's fine.
00:35:38But your ability to discern doesn't mean, what you should say is that's not for me, huh?
00:35:44I wonder if it is for anybody else.
00:35:47Can you imagine if that piece of advice is for somebody else?
00:35:50And if so, then shut the fuck up.
00:35:54Right.
00:35:55This piece of content that isn't for you found you, or this piece of advice that isn't for
00:35:58you found you, your first port of call should be, wow, I wonder if that actually exists for
00:36:03anybody.
00:36:04Fuck, I actually can imagine somebody that it would be good for that's in my life, or
00:36:09how varied are we as humans, that that's the case.
00:36:11Isn't that interesting?
00:36:13The flip side of that, there's a flip side version of that, that I see a lot, that actually
00:36:18concerns me even more, which is that people will hear a piece of, a general piece of advice.
00:36:26They will try it on themselves.
00:36:27It won't work.
00:36:28And instead of coming to the conclusion of like, oh, there's just something different
00:36:32about me and I need to adjust accordingly, they assume that there's something wrong with
00:36:37the advice.
00:36:38No, with them.
00:36:39Oh, okay.
00:36:40So the advice is the gold standard, right, because it came from Mr. Guru or Mr. Super
00:36:46PhD, but it's not working for them, so therefore they must be doing something wrong.
00:36:52They must be, something's wrong with them.
00:36:54And so they need to go find an even more detailed protocol and implement it even more strictly.
00:37:00And you see them kind of get into this OCD spiral.
00:37:03Over-optimization spiral.
00:37:05Yes.
00:37:06Because the pain of trying to be perfect will kill you more quickly than your imperfections
00:37:11will.
00:37:12Yeah.
00:37:13The one thing that I remind my listeners on my show of all the time is that like the best,
00:37:18most credible piece of advice in psychology, like if you look at all the literature in
00:37:22terms of every intervention imaginable, every intervention imaginable, and like what its
00:37:29hit rate is, it's like maybe 50%, you know, like the very best forms of therapy with a
00:37:36really good therapist, it's like maybe cracks over 50%.
00:37:42So it's, none of this stuff is going to work for everybody all the time, and in fact, you
00:37:45should expect that roughly half of it is not going to work for you at best, at best.
00:37:50And so it is, it is your responsibility to try everything, track what, what's working,
00:37:56what's not, be honest with yourself about what's working, what's not, and then like move forward
00:38:01accordingly.
00:38:02As we continue, most people in their thirties are still training hard, their protein is dialed
00:38:06in, they sleep better than they did in their twenties.
00:38:09Discipline is not the issue, but recovery feels somewhat different.
00:38:14Strength gains take a little longer, the margin for error starts to shrink.
00:38:18And that is why I'm such a huge fan of timeline.
00:38:20You see, mitochondria are the energy producers inside of your muscle cells, as they weaken
00:38:25with age, your ability to generate power and recover effectively changes, even if your habits
00:38:31stay strong.
00:38:32Mitopure from timeline contains the only clinically validated form of erytheline A used in human
00:38:38trials.
00:38:39It promotes mitophagy, which is your body's natural process for clearing out damaged mitochondria
00:38:42and renewing healthy ones.
00:38:43In studies, this supported mitochondrial function and muscle strength in older adults.
00:38:48It's not about pushing harder, it's about actually supporting the cellular machinery underneath
00:38:53your training.
00:38:54If you care about staying strong into your thirties, forties, and fifties and beyond,
00:38:58this is foundational.
00:38:59First of all, there is a 30-day money-back guarantee, plus free shipping in the US, and
00:39:03they ship internationally.
00:39:04And right now, you can get up to 20% off by going to the link in the description below
00:39:08or heading to timeline.com/modernwisdom and using the code modernwisdom at checkout.
00:39:13That's timeline.com/modernwisdom and modernwisdom at checkout.
00:39:18Nobody owes you patience just because you've had a rough upbringing or a hard day.
00:39:23Life doesn't hand out pity passes.
00:39:25Use your pain as fuel, not a crutch.
00:39:27You don't build psychological resilience by feeling good all the time.
00:39:31You build psychological resilience by getting better at feeling bad.
00:39:37That was definitely posted in 2025 or 2026, because that's the sort of thing that you could
00:39:44not post between like 2016 and 2022.
00:39:48It would have gotten me canceled.
00:39:52All sorts of proclamations about white male privilege or whatnot.
00:40:00I mean, it's difficult because there are genuine victims in the world, and there are people
00:40:14who have genuinely suffered lots of shit that is not fair and not their fault.
00:40:20And those people deserve sympathy, but they don't deserve, they don't necessarily deserve
00:40:30anything more than that.
00:40:32And I think we're kind of coming out of this period, but we went through a very intense
00:40:39period where there was a lot of entitlement associated with, like, I think in one of my
00:40:46books I called it the victimhood Olympics, right?
00:40:48It's like, and you see this now with like a lot of like super lefty groups, you know,
00:40:53it's like, well, I am a abused indigenous person of color who grew up with three legs.
00:41:00And then it's like, the next person is like, well, as a person who grew up with one leg
00:41:04and is a abused transsexual indigenous person, like my voice actually carries more weight
00:41:10than yours.
00:41:11And it's like-
00:41:12And I've got gluten intolerance.
00:41:13Yeah.
00:41:14And it's like at a certain point, it's like, who fucking cares?
00:41:17Like what are you going to do?
00:41:18That's correct.
00:41:19Right?
00:41:20Like what?
00:41:21You can't just sit around measuring your pain every day as if it's like, you know, it earns
00:41:29you merit badges.
00:41:30I've had to pull this up.
00:41:32This is one of the best takes.
00:41:33So Alex Hormozi got in trouble for saying this, the same thing.
00:41:38Nobody owes you patience just because you've had a rough day or a hard upbringing.
00:41:41Yeah.
00:41:42And he wrote a response.
00:41:43This is fucking money by him.
00:41:46If you had disadvantages, I agree with you.
00:41:48You are right.
00:41:49It's harder to be successful if X happened to you.
00:41:52Replace X with gender, race, birth, deformity, different language, different country, abuse,
00:41:57et cetera.
00:41:58The main point of the longer conversation is that despite the disadvantage, you only have
00:42:03one choice.
00:42:04What are you going to do about it?
00:42:06Number one, take action anyway and become proof to other people like you, your people, also
00:42:12born into this abused tragedy that you too can overcome it and they can as well.
00:42:20Number two, blame and complain and to be clear, do whatever you want.
00:42:25I support your choice, but only one of those decisions will make you better.
00:42:29And I wish I could say this without getting attacked, but you know who wins by you not
00:42:33being successful, whoever and whatever you blame.
00:42:37Fuck that and fuck them.
00:42:39You can lead a rebellion of one and blame the one thing you can control, which is you.
00:42:45In your mind, redefine the word blame as give power to, and when you do that, there's only
00:42:51one person you're going to want to give more power to and that's you.
00:42:54For everyone who had shitty circumstances, I'm on your side, your long-term side, the
00:43:00side that wants you to win.
00:43:01So do it anyway with all the disadvantages and still tell them to shove it and win.
00:43:07I want to be clear again.
00:43:10If you had tough shit happen to you, it sucks and that's not your fault.
00:43:14But now what?
00:43:15Where do we go?
00:43:16Isn't it crazy how many caveats and like, you know, throat-clearing land acknowledgements?
00:43:23Dude, I continue to fucking get in trouble by saying things that to some people doesn't
00:43:29land right and to other people becomes a mantra that they live by.
00:43:34And yeah, I understand because creating any goal to aim for and degree of obligation can
00:43:49make people who feel like that's out of reach for a reason that isn't their fault, feel like
00:43:54they are being made to pay twice for something that hurt them.
00:43:59And that fucking blows.
00:44:01But it also makes communication really clunky, and I hate it.
00:44:04It's so over and over and it's such a shallow form of empathy as well to assume that the
00:44:14only way that you can be caring is if you think about the middle 90% minus the two fives on
00:44:22the end that are obviously unrealistic for you to have thought about that you have to
00:44:26include all of these people as opposed to, Hey, I'm speaking to a very specific cohort
00:44:31of people now.
00:44:32Yeah.
00:44:33It, I would argue the empathy is actually completely disingenuous because it's, right, like if I'm
00:44:39empathizing with somebody strictly because of their, the color of their skin and their
00:44:45gender and their sexual orientation, like that's exactly what they don't want to be empathized
00:44:50for.
00:44:51Right.
00:44:52So it's, it's, it's backfiring.
00:44:55Like the whole strategy is backfiring in the first place.
00:44:58We were talking before I did my show in Australia and to the people who came to the Sydney show,
00:45:02you will remember that, um, James came out swinging when he did his warmup set before
00:45:07me and he made a comment partway through, which was, uh, I hate to say it, but I'm racist and
00:45:13I'm racist against a very unique group of people and it's Italians.
00:45:16He says, I know that I'm racist against Italians because I love the food, but I still don't
00:45:21like the people.
00:45:22And there was a lady partway through the show who piped up and said that I was made to basically
00:45:31do the apology for James, piped up and said, I really think that you need to be more careful
00:45:37about, you know, some of the sort of judgments that are being made in the show.
00:45:41I'd, I'd, I'd make a joke and James had made a joke and she's like, you know, this is sort
00:45:45of make, make people uncomfortable and it's exclusionary and all the rest of it.
00:45:48And it was one of those moments where I'm like, fuck, there's like 2,499 other people in here
00:45:53looking at me to see if I can handle this situation.
00:45:56And, uh, I realized that true equality is when you have to put up with the same level of shit
00:46:03that everybody else does.
00:46:04If you want to be properly, properly included, the most inclusive society, it's to not be
00:46:13treated with kid gloves.
00:46:14If you told me that somebody was treating me differently because they thought that I couldn't
00:46:19handle it or something.
00:46:21That is a kind of bigotry and patronizing cotton wool gentleness that would make me feel so
00:46:29fucking icky.
00:46:30You're like, oh my God, you are not my friend.
00:46:33You are not my friend.
00:46:34Yet does that mean that you push the person who's only just started training at the same
00:46:39level that you push the person that's a professional athlete?
00:46:42Obviously not.
00:46:43But when it comes to including people in discourse, I think that yeah, true equality is when you
00:46:49put up with the same level of shit that everybody else does.
00:46:53That's funny in Australia, man, I, I'm just remembering, I did a show a couple of years
00:46:58ago in Brisbane and, uh, I had this bit in the show, I was talking about Freud.
00:47:05You know, do they do this in your shows out there?
00:47:07So Australia has this thing where they have like the sign language person on stage, signing
00:47:12for everything.
00:47:13Did they have one for you?
00:47:14Yeah.
00:47:15Okay.
00:47:16Like all, all of my.
00:47:17Do you have many deaf fans in Australia?
00:47:18Brisbane?
00:47:19I don't know.
00:47:20I never hear from.
00:47:21Fuck me.
00:47:22You walked right into that.
00:47:28Yeah.
00:47:29So every show.
00:47:30Yeah.
00:47:31I had a, there was a guy on stage on the corner of the stage, like doing all the signs or everything.
00:47:34So I implemented a segment of the show when I had a whole section about Freud and some
00:47:40of Freud's like wackier theories.
00:47:43And I had a segment where I talked about how Freud had an obsession with dicks, moms, moms
00:47:49with dicks, fucking moms with dicks.
00:47:51And I just like went on and on.
00:47:53And then like, I would like make the person sign everything.
00:47:56Unbelievable.
00:47:57What does, what does Freud's obsession with fucking moms with dicks in sign language look
00:48:00like?
00:48:01I don't know, but it was, it was just so funny to like watch the signer just get so uncomfortable.
00:48:07Wonderful.
00:48:08And it was a great crowd moment, but there was one, there was one time in Brisbane where
00:48:12in the Q and a afterward, a woman got up and basically started chastising me for transphobia
00:48:18and lecturing me about how I had like a moral responsibility and as because of the moms with
00:48:25dicks thing.
00:48:26Yeah.
00:48:27Okay.
00:48:28Right.
00:48:29Because I have a platform and all this stuff.
00:48:30And and it was interesting cause the crowd just instantly started booing her.
00:48:35But it was funny cause like, I, I, I tried to use it as kind of a teaching moment and
00:48:42I said something very similar to you, which is like, look, if you, you're, it's not a quality
00:48:47if we can't laugh about it.
00:48:49Right?
00:48:50Like if, if as long as something is so like, can't even be spoken of because it is, needs
00:48:59to be, it's so fragile and it needs to be protected to like such an extreme extent, like that's,
00:49:05that's not a quality that's actually kind of the opposite of a quality in a lot of ways.
00:49:12I don't know if, if I convinced anybody of anything, but it was, it was a fun moment.
00:49:17Well, certainly the deaf people got convinced.
00:49:21Jimmy Carr's got a line where he says, telling me that there is a problem too serious to joke
00:49:26about is like saying there's a disease too bad to create medicine for.
00:49:31Yeah.
00:49:32You go like this is the salve that helps people to see this problem with less seriousness.
00:49:37It's not being callous, it's not being flippant with it, but it's helping them.
00:49:42If anybody has ever had a problem that's felt really important to them, have they wanted
00:49:47to take it more seriously or would they like to be able to find a way to actually inject
00:49:52some, yeah, like that is, isn't that like, isn't that funny?
00:49:56Tumor, it's therapeutic.
00:49:58It's funny actually that the Jimmy Carr quote, it reminds me, so my, my grandmother, she
00:50:03died of a brain tumor when I was probably like 14, 15 and it was, it was one of these like
00:50:09awful cancers.
00:50:10Like she died very slowly, oh, slow, slow, yeah.
00:50:15Over the course of like, you know, probably eight or 12 months and we just watched her
00:50:20deteriorate like week after week after week and it was awful.
00:50:25Like we, we would spend every weekend with her and we'd go see her and my grandmother
00:50:30had a great sense of humor.
00:50:31And so she started cracking jokes about, she like named her tumor and she was like cracking
00:50:35jokes about her tumor all the time.
00:50:37And when it got really bad, like it, it started to get awkward, you know, so she's like, she
00:50:42can't walk anymore.
00:50:43She's like, she's having memory problems, but she's still cracking jokes about the fucking
00:50:47tumor.
00:50:51At a certain point, like my aunt got really upset and she was like, you know, she was
00:50:56like, Maureen, like you can't joke about this.
00:50:59Like this is, this is really like, it's upsetting.
00:51:02And I remember my grandmother said, she was like, there's nothing so serious in this life
00:51:06that you can't laugh about it.
00:51:08And and she was like, it's my tumor.
00:51:10I'm going to, I'm going to laugh at it if I want.
00:51:12She was like, I'm going to make any joke I want about it, but that always stuck with me.
00:51:15And it's something that like, I believe very deeply as well.
00:51:18Yeah, it's a strange one that there's a recent bit of research in the New Statesman that just
00:51:24came out about the attitudes of young women, specifically in Britain.
00:51:28And white women are significantly more likely than women of color to say that the country's
00:51:34racist.
00:51:35Like, how, how, because, because there is, I know how, but it's just like, how did we
00:51:43get here?
00:51:44I know.
00:51:45It goes back to, it goes back to the desire to be seen as empathetic.
00:51:48Yes.
00:51:49If you can show yourself as some kind of savior, some sort of white knight that's going to
00:51:53steam in.
00:51:54But again, in that is so much, it's such a patronizing perspective to say, oh, you poor,
00:52:03you poor people of color, you poor deaf people.
00:52:06You're not able to, you're so unresilient that you can't deal with this yourself.
00:52:10Allow me, allow me to come in and tell these people exactly what you want.
00:52:16Hang on a second, notice that the person that piped up about the joke James made about Italians
00:52:21wasn't Italian.
00:52:23Of course.
00:52:24Of course she wasn't.
00:52:26I mean, I don't know, Chris, I think you're kind of minimizing the epidemic of transphobic
00:52:31deaf people in Australia.
00:52:33It is a real problem and you're not taking it seriously.
00:52:38I'm not, I'm not helping.
00:52:39Check your privilege.
00:52:40That is true.
00:52:41That is true.
00:52:42I am British, which I do think means that I've kind of got, how do you say, I've got ancestral
00:52:49empire privilege, but modern day embarrassment disadvantage.
00:52:55You know, I've just, if you had invested in the UK, if the UK was a stock, it was like
00:53:00fucking Herbalife or something.
00:53:02This thing's just absolutely nosedived.
00:53:06You had to have seen that recent survey where they surveyed British people of economically
00:53:11what if the UK was a state in the U S where they would be, and the Brits said it'd be like
00:53:17number six or number seven.
00:53:19And it's like, actually it's 50 first although we're like fifth in America in number one in
00:53:27America in heart health, number one in America in obesity, number one in America in all of
00:53:32the health stats.
00:53:33That's a low bar.
00:53:34That's true.
00:53:35Across all of America.
00:53:36There's not even, there's not even one state, you know, there's like those when it comes
00:53:40to health, like, yeah, we're completely fucked over here.
00:53:44All right.
00:53:45Next one.
00:53:46A quick aside.
00:53:47Most people think that they're dehydrated because they don't drink enough water.
00:53:50Turns out water alone.
00:53:52Isn't just the problem.
00:53:53Also what's missing from it, which is why for the last five years, I've started every single
00:53:57morning with a cold glass of element in water element is an electrolyte drink with a science
00:54:02backed ratio of sodium, potassium, and magnesium, no sugar, no coloring, no artificial ingredients,
00:54:08just the stuff that your body actually needs to function.
00:54:10This plays a critical role in reducing your muscle cramps and your fatigue, it optimizes
00:54:15your brain health, it regulates your appetite and it helps curb cravings.
00:54:18I keep talking about it because I genuinely feel a difference when I use it versus when
00:54:22I don't.
00:54:23And best of all, there's a no questions asked refund policy with an unlimited duration.
00:54:27So if you're on the fence, you can buy it and try it for as long as you like.
00:54:29And if you don't like it for any reason, they just give you your money back.
00:54:32You don't even need to return the box.
00:54:33That's how confident they are that you'll love it.
00:54:35And they offer free shipping in the US.
00:54:37Right now you can get a free sample pack of elements most popular flavors with your first
00:54:40purchase by going to the link in the description below or heading to drinklmnt.com/modernwisdom.
00:54:47That's drinklmnt.com/modernwisdom.
00:54:52If you have to explain to somebody why you deserve respect, then you're already in the
00:54:56wrong relationship full stop.
00:54:58People don't realize that you shouldn't have to ask someone to prioritize you.
00:55:02You shouldn't have to beg them to be proud of you.
00:55:05If their efforts have to be requested, then it's not really effort.
00:55:08It's like compliance and compliance fades the second you stop asking.
00:55:13So really, it's just a performance.
00:55:15They're just doing it to placate you and keep you satisfied and stop you from complaining.
00:55:20The right person will treat you well, because that's who they are.
00:55:23They just fundamentally care about you regardless of how other things are going.
00:55:27Not because you gave them a checklist or a deadline, but because you are just somebody
00:55:31that they value.
00:55:33So if you feel like you have to train someone to just be a decent partner for you, they've
00:55:40already kind of told you everything you need to know.
00:55:43You probably just don't want to hear it.
00:55:46I'm going to amend that because that works great, you know, that's probably one of my
00:55:52reels on Instagram or something.
00:55:54But I'm going to amend that.
00:55:56I'm going to say that that is true in the macro, not necessarily true in the micro.
00:56:02Like let me explain this.
00:56:05So if somebody is egregiously disrespectful, consistently, like you are constantly fighting
00:56:14for them to even acknowledge you, pay attention to you, care about you, like do anything.
00:56:20That in and of itself is unfixable to a certain degree.
00:56:25Because like if there are certain just base layer requirements for a healthy relationship
00:56:33that the fact you have to request them means that they are non-transactional by nature.
00:56:41So as soon as you request them, it becomes a transaction.
00:56:44And so you kind of invalidate whatever is given.
00:56:48So if it is on a severity of scale that like there's just nothing present at all, the amendment,
00:56:55the nuance that I will add to that is that there are often cases within a relationship
00:57:02that is already well established on trust, where somebody is just kind of dropping the
00:57:07ball and is not showing up in the way that even they would intend to show up, not acknowledging
00:57:19certain things, maybe has a blind spot around something.
00:57:21Somebody is going through something, right, has some difficulties going on in their life.
00:57:26So it's one of those cases where it's like it's, I think it is margin, like on the margins,
00:57:35it is not only normal, but it's healthy to ask like, say like, hey, I'm kind of feeling
00:57:40unacknowledged or unappreciated in our relationship right now.
00:57:44Like can you, can we work on this?
00:57:46Can you help me out here?
00:57:48It'd be nice if you did this or did that or, you know, showed up to my birthday party or
00:57:53whatever.
00:57:55But if it is on such a macro scale that like you are asking for it to exist in the first
00:58:00place, then it's, there's nothing there.
00:58:03And I think, I think the reason this resonated, I think the reason this resonated so much is
00:58:11because there's so many people out there who are, they confuse that, that macro problem
00:58:17with the micro problem.
00:58:18That's correct.
00:58:19Right.
00:58:20So they're, they're in a relationship with somebody who's like, gives zero shits, is not
00:58:23showing up for anything, is not acknowledging anything.
00:58:27And in their head, it's actually just a marginal issue of like, hey, it'd be nice if you like
00:58:34answered my phone sometimes, you know, like, so anyway, that's, that's some nuance to apply
00:58:40to that.
00:58:41There's a difference between telling somebody that they should think of you and explaining
00:58:47what your love language is.
00:58:48Exactly.
00:58:49Right.
00:58:50There's a difference between asking somebody to show up and explaining how you would like
00:58:56them to show up.
00:58:57Correct.
00:58:58This person is applying effort.
00:58:59They're being thoughtful.
00:59:00They're considering me.
00:59:01They're just maybe doing it in a different sort of a way than it would maybe be optimal.
00:59:07Yeah.
00:59:08Versus this person just isn't considering me or the imbalance of consideration is so great.
00:59:14And also you said when there's been a, an established level of trust that you kind of know what this
00:59:20relationship has in store typically, what if it's never shown up?
00:59:26What if this has never actually been there?
00:59:28And the only reason it is there is if you kind of constantly, you're constantly refueling
00:59:34this gas tank with requests and beratement and compulsion, I'm going to keep dragging
00:59:43you to do this thing, to think about me, to reply in a timely manner.
00:59:47I'm going to keep on reminding you that this is something that's important.
00:59:51Full stop.
00:59:52And after a while, if you've done it a lot, either in the macro or to be honest, enough
00:59:57micros makes a macro in any case, you just have to admit to yourself, you go, this is
01:00:03just incompatibility.
01:00:04Like if you have to make so many bids and this person after a while is just going to feel
01:00:09like, well, who are you in a relationship with, because I'm showing up as me, you have to assume
01:00:15that people for the most part are showing up as themselves and the goal should be to find
01:00:20somebody that you need to instruct and train as little as possible.
01:00:25Because some people have a big tank of growth, some people have a small tank of growth, but
01:00:30regardless of how big or small the tank is, if you start really close to the destination,
01:00:34you don't need to drive as far.
01:00:36And then let's say that someone's able to grow a lot, then you can both grow together
01:00:39and become better than you ever were before.
01:00:41But if almost all of you, you want to go to bed at two in the morning because you love
01:00:45going out partying and your Mrs wants to go to bed at 9 PM because she likes an early night.
01:00:50In order for that relationship to work, both people are going to have to compromise on
01:00:53the thing that they want.
01:00:55Now, maybe that would expose you to some really important routines that might make your health
01:01:02better.
01:01:03And maybe that would expose her to some really exciting nights that she wouldn't have had
01:01:05otherwise and it'll be really enjoyable.
01:01:07But also maybe you might be better off with someone that you can party with until two in
01:01:12the morning and not have to compromise and she'd be better off with someone that wants
01:01:14to watch Peaky Blinders at 8 PM and then fall asleep.
01:01:17And that is kind of what you're looking for overall.
01:01:21How is this kind of compatibility and are our incompatibilities complementary as opposed
01:01:27to competitive, friction inducing?
01:01:32I think there's a component of intention here as well, where there is there's a compatibility
01:01:39dimension to it, right, where it's like you're just two completely different people and you're
01:01:43not well suited for each other.
01:01:47And then there's I and I think really what that post was like, I think what it was kind
01:01:52of poking at is that sometimes you just have a partner who like is not prioritizing the
01:01:57relationship.
01:01:59And so if you go to them and you're like, hey, I need to be acknowledged.
01:02:03I need to feel special.
01:02:04I need like, it'd be nice if you cared more.
01:02:07The issue isn't that they're not returning your calls, that they're not, you know, showing
01:02:13up for your after work thing or whatever.
01:02:16The issue is that they don't care.
01:02:18It's not a priority for them and you can't change somebody's priorities.
01:02:24I would say, too, there's like, it's there's a certain amount of like, but if there is,
01:02:31if there is kind of a bedrock of trust, if there is kind of an overall compatibility,
01:02:35there is still this like maintenance process that happens over the years.
01:02:41Like a simple example from my life, I'm like a hopeless workaholic and I go through these
01:02:47cycles where boom and bust, yes, I kind of get like ramped up and my wife is super patient
01:02:54and supportive, but I'd say every three or four years, like we hit a breaking point where
01:03:01she's like, all right, dude, you've got to take a Sunday off or like we have to go on
01:03:06a vacation.
01:03:07I want to hang out with you.
01:03:08Yeah, exactly.
01:03:09She's like, I feel ignored.
01:03:10I feel like I never see you anymore.
01:03:12I feel like you're working all the time.
01:03:13You're always tired.
01:03:14You come home.
01:03:15You don't want to talk because you've been shooting all day, like all this stuff.
01:03:18And and she's 100% right.
01:03:21And so I'm like, oh yeah, I should like back off because I'm like, but it's, she's also
01:03:26not just doing it for herself.
01:03:28She's doing it because it's like, it's for my sake.
01:03:31She's like an external conscience.
01:03:34She's augmenting your life as opposed to working against it.
01:03:36Yes.
01:03:37Yeah.
01:03:38I mean, that's such a good point that if you're not being prioritized, Stan Tatkin's got this
01:03:41wonderful audio bug and he refuses to come on the podcast.
01:03:45She's very sad to me, but he's got, still got the best relationship book that I've ever
01:03:51consumed and it's only available on audio.
01:03:54And it's called Your Brain on Love, Stan Tatkin.
01:03:57Fucking brilliant.
01:03:58In it, he says all the relationship is, is a set of agreements, typically a set of agreements
01:04:03about how you'll behave.
01:04:04So it's the first agreement that every relationship needs to have is the relationship comes first
01:04:10before everything else.
01:04:11And I think if you are in a relationship, especially after a while, where that agreement is met
01:04:18by one party, but not by the other, you just need to accept that this is going to be a high
01:04:25friction environment specifically for the person who is more invested, but also for the one
01:04:30who isn't, because they're going to feel like they're being pressured and pulled along.
01:04:34And if you want to be in a relationship with somebody who prioritizes you at the same level
01:04:40that you prioritize that, like leave that person to go and be with someone for whom the relationship
01:04:45is their fourth priority.
01:04:47And they may be happy or they may end up realizing that, oh fuck, I actually wanted to be in a
01:04:52relationship with someone.
01:04:53The reason that this relationship was so good for me is that I felt prioritized.
01:04:57And now that I no longer am, because I wasn't doing it reciprocally, that fucking sucks.
01:05:03But yeah, if you're not being thought of, and here's the other thing, like some people aren't
01:05:09choosing to not do that.
01:05:11Some people simply don't have the time and their lifestyle and their current setup is
01:05:15not accommodating of the level of attention that you need.
01:05:20You go also fine, just because they're not choosing to do it of a variety of other options
01:05:26because they're currently in med school and this is just all they've got to do, or they're
01:05:31training for this big thing and they can't spare any time because their ultramarathon's
01:05:34coming up and they need to make this happen because it's real important to them.
01:05:38That's also a choice.
01:05:39That's also a choice by them.
01:05:41And you can go and choose someone who chooses you as opposed to choose someone who's choosing
01:05:44something else.
01:05:46I would add emotional capacity to that.
01:05:50And I think, so the agreement thing is great.
01:05:52I have not read that book.
01:05:53I should read that book.
01:05:54Fucking money.
01:05:55Just keep, hold on that.
01:05:58The reason it's so good, and I wonder whether more people are going to do this.
01:06:01He's obviously a super wizard expert of his area of expertise.
01:06:06I don't think that he wrote it.
01:06:08I think that he just had bullet points and he reads it like a lecture and he speaks like
01:06:14this.
01:06:15One of the things that we need to realize when we're talking about it's so listenable.
01:06:19And what it's made me realize is listening to most audio books that are scripted performances
01:06:30of what was meant to be written and meant to be read in written form are actually being
01:06:35horribly unlistenable compared with someone who is allowing themselves to just play with
01:06:42the language a little more.
01:06:43And what I would wonder is when people do audio books moving forward, I don't know how many
01:06:48authors already do this.
01:06:49I'm sure some do, but what if you allowed yourself to add a sentence in here or there?
01:06:56Authors seem to be almost prisoners of their own work when presenting it in a medium that
01:07:01that wasn't meant for.
01:07:02You go, "Hey, maybe add some stuff in."
01:07:06Allow yourself to have a pause.
01:07:08Is the goal to represent the book in its most sterile form?
01:07:15It's the exact presentation of this thing because pretty soon some company, ChachiPity or whatever,
01:07:22will open it.
01:07:23It'll just allow you to record five minutes of you speaking and then pitch perfect, get
01:07:28you to say the book.
01:07:30So what's the reason for it?
01:07:32Basically it's so that you can add some emotion.
01:07:33You can ham it up dramaturgically.
01:07:36You can add a little bit in.
01:07:37So I wonder whether, I don't know, I would appreciate that.
01:07:40As a listener of audiobooks, I would appreciate it if authors, "Hey, you get an extra half
01:07:45paragraph here that's just me just really thought this is an important idea."
01:07:51Maybe your audiobook.
01:07:52You can break ground.
01:07:54Yeah, that's true.
01:07:55I mean, I'm going to be out of a job in a variety of different places, even in jobs that I haven't
01:07:59yet started by AI currently.
01:08:02I want to come back to the agreement because this actually ties into the friction and the
01:08:07sacrifice thing as well.
01:08:09It's like that agreement, because I think one thing I've seen a lot is that people think
01:08:15they have a partner who is on that agreement, but it's actually not.
01:08:18And it can actually be difficult to accurately detect if you are being prioritized or not.
01:08:26And I would say the way to accurately perceive whether you're being prioritized or whether
01:08:32you're actually prioritizing the person is how much is each person in the relationship
01:08:40putting the other person first when they have nothing to gain from it.
01:08:44I think where people get mixed up a lot is they have somebody who's really into them,
01:08:48who's like love bombing them, giving them tons of attention and affection, is like excited
01:08:53all the time to see them, but they're also getting something out of the situation.
01:08:58And so they falsely perceive it to be like, oh, they're in on this agreement with me.
01:09:03And then a couple of years go by, conditions on the ground change, and suddenly that person
01:09:07is withdrawing.
01:09:08Well, also, how are they behaving when they're busy?
01:09:11Maybe that person was just on an off period from work, had a little bit of downtime and
01:09:17they're showing you attention in a way that was, or maybe they were going through a hard
01:09:22time and they needed you, they needed that, or maybe you were particularly available at
01:09:28that moment and it was easy.
01:09:31But when it gets hard, that person's unable to show up in the same way because it was easy
01:09:35in the beginning.
01:09:36Which is why the friction is the filtration.
01:09:39Correct.
01:09:40Right.
01:09:41Send them weird psychology articles.
01:09:42Yes.
01:09:43Telling you, send them weird psychology articles.
01:09:46Yeah.
01:09:48In other news, I've been in the gym for nearly two decades now, and it wasn't until the past
01:09:52few years that I had the best training run of my entire life.
01:09:56And a huge part of that was the RP Strength app.
01:09:59Actual scientists built this thing around one obsession, having a science backed path to
01:10:04maximizing muscle gain.
01:10:05It tells you how many sets, how many reps, the amount of weight that you need to use.
01:10:09So all you have to do is show up and do the thing.
01:10:11It adjusts automatically every week based on how you're actually progressing.
01:10:15And there are over 45 pre-made training programs and more than 250 technique videos built in.
01:10:20So you're not just lifting, you're lifting optimally to get the most out of your workouts.
01:10:24A lot of the time I have less than an hour to be in the gym.
01:10:26And what I love about the RP app is that it takes that into account and adjusts my workout
01:10:30on the fly.
01:10:31So I know that I'm going to maximize how much time I've got available.
01:10:34For me, following a proper evidence-based plan has made a huge difference.
01:10:39And if you're serious about training and the gains that you want to make, I'm pretty sure
01:10:42that it'll do the same for you.
01:10:44Right now, you can follow the exact same training plan that I use and get up to $50 off the RP
01:10:49hypertrophy app by going to the link in the description below or heading to rpstrength.com/modernwisdom
01:10:54and using the code modernwisdom at checkout.
01:10:57That's rpstrength.com/modernwisdom and modernwisdom at checkout.
01:11:02Beware, learning more is a smart person's favorite form of procrastination.
01:11:07Guilty.
01:11:08So fucking guilty.
01:11:12I think, I think this is, you know, learning is safe to a smart person.
01:11:19It's something they know they're good at.
01:11:20It's something, it feels like progress.
01:11:25And it's relatively easy to convince yourself that it is going to help you do the thing when
01:11:30it finally comes time to do the thing.
01:11:36But you and I know that's like not always the case, it's often not the case.
01:11:40And there is such a thing as cramming too much information into your brain because then
01:11:45you start, you know, creating obsession, perfectionism, you actually generate anxiety where there,
01:11:54where there was less before.
01:11:57So yeah, I mean the learning as procrastination that, I mean, that's just, that's like fucking
01:12:02bread and butter for this industry.
01:12:04It's, it's, everybody struggles with that.
01:12:07Like, you know, we, we all like to think, well, let me, you know, let me just buy a couple
01:12:12more books on this and then, then I'll start, then I'll figure it out, then I'll know what
01:12:17to do.
01:12:18And it's, the truth is, is you need both simultaneously.
01:12:21You need to learn, but you need to practice.
01:12:23You need to do things.
01:12:24Yeah.
01:12:25I think about this with people who constantly go back to couples counseling, you know, if
01:12:34your relationship is held together on a biweekly co-journaling session to work through the difficulties
01:12:41of the last three days and regular therapy and CBT, you know, after a while, this is just
01:12:51you putting off the fact that this thing isn't working.
01:12:54And the same thing goes for learning more as a smart person's favorite form of procrastination.
01:12:59If, if you keep on learning, you never actually have to engage with the fact that this thing
01:13:05might be too difficult for you to achieve, that you might not be good enough or that you
01:13:09could be good enough, but it's going to take an awful lot of work.
01:13:11You're insulating yourself, right?
01:13:13You're inoculating yourself from the pain of potentially failing publicly by postponing
01:13:18your stepping onto the stadium floor privately.
01:13:21Yep.
01:13:22I don't need to do it.
01:13:23I guess, well, it, you bring up an interesting thing with the marriage counseling, because
01:13:30I would say in the, in the, the personal development world, the self-help world you could easily
01:13:35replace learning with insight, insight gaining more insight is, can also be a smart person's
01:13:42way of procrastinating.
01:13:43And you see this a lot of people who sign up for a million seminars and they need what I
01:13:47was thinking about.
01:13:48You can do the Hoffman process and IFS and tantra and I'm going to go do this like meditation
01:13:54retreat and ayahuasca and like, you know, over and over and over again, and it's at a certain
01:13:59point you need to digest all of the insight that you've gained.
01:14:03And the only way you digest is by like living and doing other things.
01:14:07I'm curious, like where, where have you procrastinated by learning more?
01:14:12Cause I mean, clearly you like learning.
01:14:15Where have I procrastinated by learning more?
01:14:18Well, before I started the show, just one example, I knew I wanted to do a podcast at the start
01:14:27of the middle of 2017, but it took me until the February of 2018 to launch because I was
01:14:33working on what's the perfect name going to be.
01:14:36That took like two months to come up with modern.
01:14:38Crushing Tuesday.
01:14:39Crushing Tuesday.
01:14:40Brains and brawn actually, that was a huge part of it.
01:14:45Then the artwork needed to be perfect.
01:14:47Then I needed to listen to Tim Ferriss's how to start a podcast podcast and game my way
01:14:52to the top of the Apple charts, which actually worked.
01:14:54So thanks Tim.
01:14:55And then, you know, what's the, I'm going to start the channel that YouTube is going
01:15:00to launch at the exact same time as the Apple podcast.
01:15:04And in some ways, I actually think that feels very justified given that that would turn
01:15:10into a project that was 1100 episodes.
01:15:14And you know, the URL that I registered at the very beginning of that is the same one
01:15:20that we use now.
01:15:21All of those things are locked in.
01:15:22So it's just as well that I got it right.
01:15:25But also you need to be able to pick your battles because you can't spend six months or many
01:15:30years doing that.
01:15:31So that's one part of it.
01:15:34Certainly when I was at university, I did four years on my bachelor's, which included a placement
01:15:40year.
01:15:41And then I did a master's.
01:15:42I already, while I was thinking about doing the master's at the end of my bachelor's, I
01:15:48couldn't remember half of my bachelor's.
01:15:50I couldn't remember the stuff I was learning as I was learning it.
01:15:52And I just assumed that the next thing, because I'm like, I don't really know what to do.
01:15:57More business, my choice of degree.
01:15:59That's a perfect one.
01:16:00My choice of degree.
01:16:01I'm really interested in psychology and really interested in philosophy.
01:16:05But what?
01:16:06I mean, I get a job as a psychologist or a philosopher that obviously those degrees are
01:16:10useless.
01:16:11I can't imagine how, what is the most applicable degree to making money or business because
01:16:17business makes money.
01:16:19So if I do business, that means that I'll understand what I'm doing.
01:16:21I'm like, dude, is that one of the biggest, one of the biggest regrets of my early life
01:16:28is doing something that I thought would be transactionally useful instead of just doing
01:16:32something that I was interested in because the thing that I was interested in, it just
01:16:35took me a decade and a half to, I guess like six years from leaving uni or 12 years from
01:16:42starting it to make my own amateur version of that by speaking to the world experts on
01:16:48whatever subject I wanted.
01:16:49Most of which are about fucking psychology and philosophy.
01:16:51So I'm like, had I have gone and done degree, modern wisdom wouldn't have existed, but I
01:16:55wouldn't have had to wait 12 years to get started, you know?
01:16:58I dunno.
01:16:59Yeah.
01:17:00What about you?
01:17:01What, what, what stands out for you?
01:17:03Health was the big one for me.
01:17:04I had, dude, I read every, I was, I was the fat guy who, who could tell you everything
01:17:10about like metabolic dysfunction, insulin resistance.
01:17:14Oh, you're an expert.
01:17:16Yeah.
01:17:17Yeah.
01:17:18I did used to be fat, which I'm looking at you now as a fucking slim trim 40 year old
01:17:24people believe.
01:17:25Yeah.
01:17:26Yeah.
01:17:27I mean, I mean, I mean, I'm in the best health of my life.
01:17:30Which is crazy.
01:17:31Cause I spent years.
01:17:32I mean, I read all the blogs, I understood all the different workout protocols.
01:17:36I did a bunch of different workout protocols.
01:17:37I didn't stick to any of them.
01:17:39Hadn't stopped drinking.
01:17:41No.
01:17:42Oh dude, it didn't change a fucking thing.
01:17:45I was, pizza every day, you know, whiskey every night, going to bed at three in the morning,
01:17:51waking up at 11 and reading books about, you know, health, you know, yeah, yeah.
01:17:57This, this specific type of you know, calorie is gonna cause inflammation and fuck up your
01:18:06gains, you know, as if any of it, any of it mattered.
01:18:11And yeah, eventually it just took, I just had to hire a coach and he was like, dude, just
01:18:15go to the gym.
01:18:16And I, I was that obnoxious client who would try to kind of debate him.
01:18:23I'd be like, well, you know, I heard that like this rep scheme wasn't as effective as like,
01:18:28and he'd just look at me and just be like, dude, just go to the gym.
01:18:32Like why are we fat as fuck?
01:18:33Yeah.
01:18:34Why are we talking about it?
01:18:35Like, why are we talking about this?
01:18:37Your Brazilian girlfriend can out lift you, fucking stop it.
01:18:40You're hungover.
01:18:41You, you ever, you've been, you ate a pizza last night.
01:18:45Like just go to the gym.
01:18:46You're a mess.
01:18:47You're a mess.
01:18:48And I think there's sort of the over optimization thing I think is really falling away that if
01:18:53I was to, me and my friends play a game of bear or bull pretty frequently, which, which
01:18:57is just anything, pick anything, a trend in the world, an individual, a type of fashion,
01:19:02a product, whatever you want, country, a culture, what do you bullish on and what do you bearish
01:19:07on?
01:19:08What would you invest in and what would you, what would you bet against?
01:19:12And I think that over optimization, I'm heavily, heavily against at the moment.
01:19:18I think people are drowning in information, they're drowning in advice and what they want
01:19:23is a degree of simplicity and more than anything, they want connection.
01:19:28This is the thing, talking about the relationship stuff, I kind of tracked my journey of learning
01:19:34about relationships and it broke down into a few different epochs.
01:19:39So I guess I became interested in what was happening with mating and dating.
01:19:44You see these stats around sex listeners and stuff like that and you think, oh wow, that's
01:19:48interesting.
01:19:49I should do some research and look at Pew, you start to look at the Institute for Family
01:19:53Studies and you go, oh my gosh, isn't this strange?
01:19:56And then you go, well, I wonder what's going on?
01:19:57So you start to learn evolutionary psychology and you think, okay, well, I'm going to learn
01:20:01about the physics of the system, the principles that are maybe guiding some of these decisions.
01:20:07But that's still not enough, right?
01:20:09And then you combine them.
01:20:10And that's where you get to something akin to red pill or a more sanitized version of
01:20:14red pill, right?
01:20:15Or feminism tries to do the same thing and I'm going to look at mismatch and I'm going
01:20:20to work out why the current situation and ancestral programming, how they're coming together, right?
01:20:26What that's causing.
01:20:27That's still not actually what a relationship is.
01:20:31A relationship is your nervous system interacting with someone else's, like relating has nothing
01:20:37to do with any of these.
01:20:39This is, it's totally the midwif meme of like, it's like, just go talk to girls and like the
01:20:43Jedi is like, just go talk to girls.
01:20:45Exactly.
01:20:46It's like, she makes me feel good, bro.
01:20:49She makes me feel good, bro.
01:20:50I must ensure that my mate value is matched with hers with an optimal fertility window
01:20:53so that we can ensure that our children like, no, no, like eat protein lift weights, eat
01:20:59protein lift weights.
01:21:00My intra-winder workout window must be pre-digested and ensure that the, no, no, no, no, can I
01:21:06put you on the spot?
01:21:07So, I think it was maybe two years ago, maybe a year, no, maybe two years.
01:21:12There was a point like a couple of years ago I saw you and you said that you, or maybe it
01:21:17was one of your Q and A's.
01:21:18You said that you were going to make finding a wife, starting a family, like a big priority.
01:21:26Do you think you're doing this with that, like finding more insight or do you feel like you're
01:21:33making headway?
01:21:35Trying my best.
01:21:36One of the challenges there is that you can't do it solo, right?
01:21:40You can put all of the time in that you want, but inherently what you have to do is have
01:21:44another person to dance with.
01:21:46So certainly to a degree, I think I wanted to bring this up about a talking point that
01:21:53both you and Scott Galloway push.
01:21:56And I think that it's done in real good faith, but speaking as somebody that is the child
01:22:04of that, the progeny of that philosophy, I think contributes to it.
01:22:10And this is the single most important decision that you make in your life will be the person
01:22:15that you'd choose to spend it with.
01:22:17And this may be an important piece of advice for many people, maybe even most people who
01:22:23don't think about that, who fall backward into a relationship with someone they met when they
01:22:26were 24 and then before they know it, they're kind of living together, but they didn't really
01:22:30choose it.
01:22:31They got a dog and then I guess we're engaged and fuck, we've got a kid.
01:22:34Do I like this person?
01:22:35Are we actually good for each other?
01:22:38And they were too unintentional about it.
01:22:41But on the flip side, especially as people are dating older and older now, that advice
01:22:46I think can create an awful lot of anxiety.
01:22:49And it's meant to say, treat this decision with appropriate care because it's very influential.
01:22:57And I've said this too, because I believe it, but when that rubber meets the road, functionally,
01:23:06what that ends up being is, well, I mean, I really should spend an awful lot more time
01:23:10scrutinizing this person, which is the opposite of the other one, just what the good Tuesday
01:23:14look like, marrying those two.
01:23:16And that's certainly been a challenge.
01:23:17There is a curse of knowledge when it comes to dating and yeah, I've definitely decided
01:23:22to jump in at the deep end with that.
01:23:24Yeah, I could see that.
01:23:26It's interesting because I think it's one of those things.
01:23:29It's one of those talking points, the importance of like choosing your partner.
01:23:37I think it is objectively true in a vacuum.
01:23:39I don't know how helpful it is when you're sitting across from somebody, right?
01:23:44Because ultimately the majority of whoever you do end up marrying, the majority of that
01:23:50marriage is not going to be found.
01:23:54It's going to be built over the course of the relationship.
01:23:57And so it's, it's almost like, it's almost like, and this is going to sound really trite,
01:24:02but it's almost like finding a business partner.
01:24:04Like it's not, you're not looking for somebody who's had, who hasn't figured out or has you
01:24:08figured out.
01:24:09It's almost just like, this is somebody I can work with.
01:24:12Like can you build with this person?
01:24:13I can build something with this person.
01:24:15We get along well, we fight well, which is equally as important.
01:24:23We're high integrity, good character.
01:24:25We have some things in common.
01:24:27Awesome.
01:24:28Challenges make us stronger, not weaker.
01:24:30Let's see how far we can go.
01:24:32And at a certain point you just, you just opt in, right?
01:24:35It's like the, let's incorporate this business.
01:24:38Yeah.
01:24:39And it's, it's a one way door and it's the fact that it is a one way door is what keeps
01:24:43you guys, keeps both people fully invested to keep working on it.
01:24:49Which is why situationships is so damaging to people.
01:24:52Because it's a halfway door and typically a situationship is a one way door for one party
01:24:57and a revolving door for the other party.
01:24:59Yes, pretty much.
01:25:01Yeah.
01:25:02All right.
01:25:03Neediness occurs when you place a higher priority on what others think of you than what you think
01:25:07of yourself.
01:25:08Anytime you alter your words or behavior to fit someone else's needs rather than your own,
01:25:12that's needy.
01:25:14Anytime you lie about your interests, hobbies, or background, that's needy.
01:25:17Anytime you pursue a goal to impress others rather than fulfill yourself, that's needy.
01:25:23Whereas most people focus on what behavior is attractive or unattractive.
01:25:26What determines neediness and therefore attractiveness is the why behind your behavior.
01:25:31You can say the coolest thing or do what everyone else does.
01:25:35But if you do it for the wrong reason, you will come off as needy and desperate and turn
01:25:39people off.
01:25:41Pulling out the classics.
01:25:42That's an old one.
01:25:43The old hits.
01:25:44That's from models.
01:25:45She's going to be 15 years old this year.
01:25:48Unreal.
01:25:49Everyone needs to go and read it, dude.
01:25:50Anyone that needs a new book, go and read an old book and that is now an old book.
01:25:54It is.
01:25:55That and Mate by Jeffrey Miller and Tucker Max are the two car garage of dating books
01:26:00for men.
01:26:01Yeah.
01:26:02That's it.
01:26:03And it's still relevant now.
01:26:04It's mad that like, hey, a t-shirt that fits and jeans that don't have stains on them is
01:26:10still probably revolutionary advice for a lot of guys, but yeah, it's it's fucking it's money.
01:26:15Yeah.
01:26:16But the whole thesis of that book for the people that haven't read it.
01:26:19Neediness is unattractive.
01:26:20Yes.
01:26:21Basically you could summarize the whole book for men as in dating, neediness is unattractive.
01:26:26It's really funny because so for people listening who don't know, like I started my career as
01:26:32a dating coach and from like 2008 to like 2013 models came out in 2011, but I was meeting
01:26:42dozens and dozens of guys in person.
01:26:44I was taking them out to bars and clubs and helping them meet girls online and, you know,
01:26:50giving them advice on on dates, on relationships, everything.
01:26:53And it was so funny because at the time it was like the whole men's dating advice space.
01:26:58It was super fragmented.
01:26:59There was almost like different classes you had to take at a college, right?
01:27:03There was like texting game and and then there was like the first date that you had to master
01:27:08and then there was the opener that you had to like figure out and I just I kind of wanted
01:27:14a unified theory of men's attractiveness because I what I noticed is that guys who were supremely
01:27:23attractive in one moment and one like in one phase of the early relationship just seem to
01:27:30not really have any problems in any other part.
01:27:32It's not it's not like there are any men who are like amazing at meeting a girl in a bar
01:27:37and then went on a date and just embarrass themselves like it just didn't really happen.
01:27:42It was you kind of either have winners and losers.
01:27:44Yeah, you either have the skills or you didn't and there was nothing special about like a
01:27:49text message or you know a second date that like you couldn't figure out if you if you
01:27:56had the fundamentals in place.
01:27:58So it was like kind of searching for this this unified theory of like men's attractiveness
01:28:02and what I noticed what I noticed about all of the men that I knew who were incredibly
01:28:08successful with women regardless of their circumstances in life, you know how old they were their appearance
01:28:17money background anything was they just had this they prioritize their perception of themselves
01:28:25over the perception of the girls like all the guys who were who were terrible with women
01:28:30and who struggled with women and even some of the ones who could kind of perform like
01:28:34a dancing monkey and maybe get a little like a hookup here and there but they would lose
01:28:38the girl inevitably within a few days.
01:28:43I noticed that everything that motivated what they said what they did how they dressed how
01:28:47they presented themselves.
01:28:49It was what is she going to like and what does she want to hear and and so it kind of it became
01:28:58this what I realized around that time is that ultimately and I think this is true for women
01:29:05as well, but I think it's more true of men that your attractiveness is really dictated
01:29:10by your comfort with yourself and how deeply you have explored your own life your own identity
01:29:19and your willingness to share that with the world and the result neediness was kind of
01:29:27that glue that held everything together or the concept of non neediness right is like
01:29:32don't do things for other people's approval don't don't change your lifestyle for other
01:29:36people's approval don't work out for other people's approval don't say some bullshit line
01:29:41in a bar for other people's approval like it's just it's all the same thing and it's
01:29:45all just being needy for validation and approval and it's I guess I I'm fortunate it's just
01:29:55a very timeless concept like it's it's as true today as it was then yeah and it probably
01:30:00always will be because it's I think it's if I was to describe my career in like a simple
01:30:06phrase it would be taking very abstract intangible concepts and like concretizing them in a single
01:30:14phrase or a single term in a way that like an average person on the street can understand
01:30:19and use them like that's entire like that's essentially my entire job and like why I'm
01:30:24here and why I've done anything and I think I think the non neediness was like my first
01:30:32real success at that yeah yeah yeah essentializing distilling things down someone wants the two
01:30:38best descriptions I've ever heard of modern wisdom one was brains and brawn yeah it was
01:30:45crushing a Tuesday actually dispelling comforting myths was one and another one was it feels
01:30:54like spiraling spiraling for my soul in an environment filled with fast food for my amygdala
01:30:59I was like that's that's that's lovely poetic but yeah like look essentializing something
01:31:03there's this big fluffy concept like what were we saying over optimization too much information
01:31:08I'm feeling all like I don't think that you're going to get even with where llms are at the
01:31:14moment I don't think you're going to be able to get the unwieldy world of human attraction
01:31:19distilled down to prioritize your approval of yourself over other people's approval of
01:31:26you don't be needy right that just that is a distillation that kind of requires a human
01:31:32in the loop yeah because it's about language it's about okay what does this mean not what
01:31:39is it if you synthesize it right it's not a synthetic idea it's still quite an organic
01:31:42one but yeah when I think about the the problem with the neediness thing it also explains why
01:31:49so many guys felt like I mean the red pill movement was born out of PUA hate yeah remember
01:31:54that yeah yeah because that was your era but the PUA hate thing so these are guys who had
01:31:59I remember that forum found success or found failure with pick-up artistry yeah and I think
01:32:04that both of them were quite deranged the guys that had found failure with pick-up artistry
01:32:08saw themselves as so broken that even the most evidence-based system to ensure that they
01:32:14could get laid couldn't help them and I mean that's pretty dispiriting but then the guys
01:32:18who did find success with it also felt like they were dispirited because they said god
01:32:23look at how much I have to contort myself yeah in order to be remotely attractive to a woman
01:32:28and this is an example of none of them stop to consider that it's just maybe the system
01:32:32is wrong like the model is incorrect and so they just assume no women are incorrect right
01:32:39it's like it's the problem isn't that like every woman on the planet is broken it's the
01:32:46problem is is that your model of dating in human relationships is broken and but you're
01:32:51not willing to toss that out because you're so psychologically dependent on it I fun thing
01:32:58so I name-checked you I did you know Jubilees surrounded yes so I just shot an episode with
01:33:06them what for what was the thing one man versus the manosphere no fucking way you went up against
01:33:12the manosphere yeah who was in the room anyone that I'd know um I don't think so no big names
01:33:17no huge names yeah there's been a couple of that just did I'm fucking fascinated by this
01:33:21yeah a couple of them had uh people who were sort of moderately well known yeah going in
01:33:29but maybe you're not deep in the manosphere enough to know who was that yeah I maybe who
01:33:32knows maybe there was a guy there that they chose you especially somebody who came out
01:33:37of that world that's a unique choice that's cool it's interesting because I told the producers
01:33:42I was like in the pre-production I'm proto-manosphere yeah I told him I was like well first of all
01:33:47they were concerned they're like are you ready for I'm like dude I'm the first five years
01:33:52of my career I spent arguing with these fucking guys so like yes I'm more than prepared I know
01:33:57all the evolutionary psych and all their like silly theories but it was interesting because
01:34:02I told him I was like you realize that like half these guys are probably gonna be fans
01:34:05of mine and they're gonna have read my book and and they were actually all for it so they're
01:34:10like no no this is like we kind of want this dynamic so it was really interesting it actually
01:34:16went really well they were like way more respectful than I expected and and some of them were super
01:34:21smart which I've been around enough of those guys to know that like a lot of them are super
01:34:26well read but it it was funny because afterwards a few of them were like they said they're like
01:34:34I can't believe we debated you I thought I thought I was gonna be debating like some women's
01:34:38studies professor you know from UCSF or something but I name-checked you because like one of
01:34:45the things that one of my talking points was like I said it's it's the manosphere is the
01:34:53incorrect solution to the correct problem the correct problem is young men are struggling
01:34:58there's a real crisis going on and it's not talked about enough and you and I both know
01:35:03that but this is not what's gonna work like this is this is not helping and so the issue
01:35:12isn't and and then of course a lot of the guys came with like well there's this great
01:35:15advice and like Andrew Tate got me to like get my life together I'm like that's great
01:35:19but the problem isn't the advice you know the seed of advice embedded within the manosphere
01:35:26content it's the problem is the packaging like you can go find that advice anywhere and it's
01:35:31great that that particular packaging reached you in that moment but you need to be able
01:35:35to let it go and so a couple of the guys they're like oh well then what should we listen to
01:35:40instead anyway I threw your name into it fucking go dude I'm sufficiently sanitized I've got
01:35:45the seal of approval I appreciate that hey man I fucking I think this is I've said this
01:35:50to make I know Jordan's it in a bad way at the moment but the timing of Jordan Peterson
01:35:59to get ill and also aggressively do the god pivot yes highly fucking inconvenient yeah
01:36:06where the culture was moving because I think that a lot of what you're seeing with the
01:36:13more cantankerous sides of the manosphere would not have had the oxygen and the fuel
01:36:21to be able to get big had you have still had Jordan floating around I yeah it's almost like
01:36:26he was too early he did he timed the market he was right but early and then yeah created
01:36:32the gap and then stopped supplying the demand yeah he created the demand and then stopped
01:36:37servicing the market yeah I and I have to give him credit too because I mean I I've always
01:36:43appreciated his work but I remember I remember back when he first kind of got big and he was
01:36:49kind of going on about a lot of this stuff I was I was like really like is this really
01:36:54such a like do we really need to be talking about I thought we solved this right but it's
01:36:59been it's been pretty eye-opening how just in terms of like correctly identifying a a
01:37:07cultural catastrophe years before it prescient yeah prescient as fuck like so prescient and
01:37:14I go back and listen to you know golden era JBP of which you know I've got many episodes
01:37:19with him and I look forward to him coming back with a fully functioning brain it gets more
01:37:27true hmm it is big one of if you want real adventure in life tell the truth like fuck
01:37:32me like every single time that I think about there's a problem in my life it's because I'm
01:37:36not telling the truth every single time yeah like Jesus Christ it is it was really really
01:37:43good and he got embroiled in things and became in many ways like he got deranged by the level
01:37:51of aggression that he was being attacked by this wonderful article from Ethan Strauss on
01:37:55substack that we should go and read it's called criticism capture is more deranging than audience
01:38:00capture hmm he basically says that it's the criticisms not the compliments that sway the
01:38:05way that we move yeah and in my experience and watching a lot of people on the internet
01:38:10that becomes so true look at anybody who is really really militant and and gregarious with
01:38:22the way that they sort of communicate about stuff and you're like wow like that's a that's
01:38:25a firework of a of a world that's going on there are they're very unforgiving uncompromising
01:38:32in the way that they talk about things almost always people who have been very heavily attacked
01:38:37yeah rightly or wrongly you know Trump became more Trump because of how much people were
01:38:45pushing back against him Tate became more Tate because of how much people were pushing back
01:38:49against him Hassan Pica became more Hassan Pica because of how many people are pushing
01:38:53back against him this happens to everybody I don't see the same thing being true for people
01:38:58that are just regularly complimented and don't get haters yeah I do think that it it causes
01:39:02people to react in a way where they dig their heels in and they become more spiky about their
01:39:09beliefs yeah I could see that I also I it one of the things that I have grown to appreciate
01:39:16over the years is that and and I really I really learned this being around Will Smith when I
01:39:22was working on his book in kind of in his orbit some of the other like very famous people in
01:39:28his orbit like there's a certain amount of skill or personality that is well suited for
01:39:36fame and and I think it's some people's some people just naturally respond very poorly to
01:39:44a lot of attention and a lot of fame and some people naturally respond very well and they
01:39:48function very well with it and and it just and this is not a knock on him he just from
01:39:56I don't know him very well I've only met him a couple times but like just as an outside
01:40:01observer he just strikes me as somebody who like it it was not it did not do him any favors
01:40:07and and it was probably it was so much and it was so like intense and it was so critical
01:40:15that it's a I sympathize a lot for what he probably went through I think about people
01:40:22who have the skill to become famous but not the disposition to deal with the fame yes Lewis
01:40:28Capaldi is a phenomenal example of this so writes his first album billions of streams
01:40:34global tour needs to write a second one gets put under so much pressure that he gives himself
01:40:41a turret style tick where his anxiety is pushed his body beyond a limit that it was able to
01:40:48cope with then steps out on stage at the o2 or and Glastonbury I think and is under so
01:40:55much internal pressure that he can't get the words out and he can't sing and and then goes
01:41:01away completely goes away and then comes back maybe a year or two years later main stage
01:41:07of Glastonbury again and plays a new song which is all about his desire he says I swear to
01:41:13God I'll survive even if it kills me this time and just like looking healthy super regulated
01:41:22but there is a world of people who are good enough to achieve fame but just straight up
01:41:29don't have the disposition to be able to cope with it and that's a ruthless position to be
01:41:33in because the thing that you want is in your hands yes and kind of through no choice of
01:41:38your own there's another thing almost everybody wants to be successful but doesn't have the
01:41:43talent yeah and there are a very small bucket of people that get to become successful and
01:41:48of them there's a proportion who can become successful but for some reason just self-destruct
01:41:54yeah detonate this thing that they've worked their entire lives to try and get that's like
01:41:59no one's gonna give him sympathy velvet fucking prison champagne problem but a unique kind
01:42:04of pain to get to the top of the mountain and find that you threw yourself off well in that
01:42:08that that throwing off like I mean it can be catastrophic I mean if you look at what he's
01:42:14gone through the last few years or if you just classic celebrity stories right you know Kurt
01:42:19Cobain or Amy Winehouse or like who he did he yeah got you yes yes that is one way to
01:42:27self-destruct but it's you know you can see it play out in a lot of different ways the
01:42:33other thing that like I really grew to appreciate being around will it's like there there's a
01:42:37system a system ization of fame like you him and his team had like they had guardrails built
01:42:46around him they had you know they had systems of like here's how you deal with unruly fans
01:42:53in a way that like doesn't upset anybody here's how you like guarantee his privacy in certain
01:42:57places without like disturbing his weekend you know here's how you make sure he gets
01:43:02enough time to like rehearse and you know learn his scripts like they had they had protocols
01:43:07for all of this stuff that it was literally just protocols to maintain his ability to function
01:43:13there's a middle area of fame I haven't been exposed to I've only ever been exposed to one
01:43:18or two people that have got that becoming friends with someone right now who basically lives
01:43:23with a team of SAS guys 24 hours a day to keep him on the straight and narrow so that he can
01:43:28continue to produce the things that he needs to produce but it's a very small number of
01:43:34people that have that and a very large number of people that would really benefit from that
01:43:39that I know of who are in sort of the middling level of faith yes where it can disrupt your
01:43:43life and get in the way of your relationships and hurt you and stuff but no one's handed
01:43:49them the pamphlet or the playbook to be able to deal with it and dude it's introducing friction
01:43:54back into back into your life right because that's what happens when you achieve this insane
01:43:58level of success and fame is like it removes all the barriers and guardrails now you have
01:44:02all the money to do whatever you want you have all the people who are going to say yes to
01:44:06whatever you want and so the only way to like stay functional is to like intentionally reintroduce
01:44:13limitations there's limitations the the friction sexy yeah yeah this is similar to one of yours
01:44:20you only envy the lives of people whose sacrifices you can't see yeah yeah um I mean it's it's
01:44:35easy it's easy to just want the benefits of something like it's it's so it's the default
01:44:40right like it's almost childish to just want the benefits of something um it's it's a very
01:44:46naive way of seeing the world and I think it's not only is it important to want the costs
01:45:01of something check and make sure you want the costs of something before you actually start
01:45:06pursuing it but again it comes back to like that's the part that makes it meaningful right
01:45:13if you just got the benefits of things you would never appreciate those things it's the
01:45:18fact that you like struggled and sacrificed and crawled through shit in that wonderful
01:45:24duality you only envy the lives of people whose sacrifices you can't see so if you could see
01:45:29the cost that somebody had to pay in order to get to where they are you probably wouldn't
01:45:36want the life but if you were able to get to the place that they got to without the sacrifices
01:45:41you wouldn't appreciate it bingo it it's the it's the Elon quote you mentioned earlier right
01:45:47it's like you don't want you wouldn't like to be me my mind's a storm people think they
01:45:51want to be me they don't want to be me yeah there's a line from James Clear that plays
01:45:55off this which this is one of the best things that I read over the last few years it doesn't
01:46:00make sense to continue wanting something if you're not willing to do what it takes to get
01:46:04it if you don't want to live the lifestyle then release yourself from the desire to crave
01:46:09the result but not the process is to guarantee disappointment fucking money it's such money
01:46:17because how many people want something but George Max got this idea that the difference
01:46:23between Call of Duty and war he says a lot of the time people think that they would love
01:46:28to play Call of Duty all the time but that's not what war is war is the smell of burnt
01:46:32gunpowder and your friend getting his leg blown off right and you want to become a musician
01:46:37you want to become a world-famous guitarist you okay well what does that look like you're
01:46:41gonna have to learn to play guitar for a decade to no one and then if and when you start a
01:46:46band you're gonna be playing also to no one with no promise of whether or not this is going
01:46:51to work let me cut you off there because that was my life so dope the real that's it that's
01:46:58an unfamously unsuccessful music yes as a failed musician let me tell you that that what you
01:47:02just described is that's still like the most fun five percent of it like the ninety five
01:47:08percent of it is you're sitting in a room by yourself practicing yeah and there's no applause
01:47:13there's nobody watching there's nobody it's frustrating and difficult you're playing the
01:47:18same song literally hundreds of times and it's the the thing in music that they always
01:47:23say is is that you're not practicing until you get it right you're practicing until it's
01:47:29impossible to get wrong so it is you know if it takes a hundred repetitions to get it right
01:47:35you need to get to a thousand to never get it wrong and it is so monotonous and tedious
01:47:41and just like absolutely soul-destroying unless unless you love it unless you just genuinely
01:47:46can't imagine living without it um so yeah well that's the your line about um what sort
01:47:56of pain do you want in your life yes every pursuit worth having comes with some degree
01:48:01of pain and struggle and sacrifice so choose what flavor of shit sandwich you want to eat
01:48:08yes yeah yeah it's uh it's funny on the the idea of the the really unsexy stuff that becomes
01:48:19sexy when reflected in the glory of you standing on stage and doing something really cool but
01:48:25if you don't want to do something if you genuinely don't want to do something it's almost impossible
01:48:28for you to get yourself to do it and that's the it doesn't make sense to continue wanting
01:48:32something if you're not willing to do what it takes to get it not even willing to do
01:48:36what it like wants to do ideally because you can be willing to do something but the amount
01:48:41of willpower that it's going to take in order to get you through that is fucking insurmountable
01:48:47and also it's going to detract away from all of the other things that you should do in your
01:48:50life now it's unfortunate that some people never get an obsession that's worth anything
01:48:55i was thinking about this a lot that i would call myself there's that term serial monogamist
01:49:02i i would call myself a serial obsessive that around about every seven years or so i get
01:49:07a new obsession and it was cricket from the age of 10 until 18 then it was club promo
01:49:13from 18 until 25 26 27 and then it was personal development until early 30s and then it's been
01:49:21the podcast from then until now and that's cool because all of those obsessions largely
01:49:26have not been that destructive and maybe have even been beneficial to me and the world except
01:49:33for the cricket i will stand my ground with that you're a fucking philistine you're an
01:49:40uncultured american philistine okay and it's it's and anything that is in america is derivative
01:49:47of something that happened in britain it's more boring baseball and considering how boring
01:49:51baseball is i disagree i disagree it's a sport that's only played when the weather's good
01:49:56okay it lasts for five days and sometimes ends in a draw it's almost it's almost mandatory
01:50:02to drink this sounds like a circle of hell no it's not it's it's england okay and which
01:50:08is a circle of hell no no no that's incorrect that's incorrect i'm sorry i love it it's highly
01:50:13that's highly offensive i love england and you know good good good uh here's 10 years
01:50:18of therapy summarized in one minute number one no one is coming to save you being a functioning
01:50:24adult means realizing you are responsible for everything in your life even if it wasn't
01:50:27your fault number two strong boundaries make for good relationships weak boundaries make
01:50:33drama number three many of your problems don't get fixed you just learn how to live despite
01:50:39them number four your mind lies to you all the time it will tell you that the world is
01:50:43ending when it's not that a mistake is fatal when it's not that everyone is thinking about
01:50:47you and laughing about you when they're not learn how to tell your mind to shut the fuck
01:50:51up number five stop trying to convince people to like you the right people won't need to
01:50:56be convinced and everyone else is just going to get very annoyed number six sometimes the
01:51:02best thing you can do is let a dream die no one likes to hear that but it's true and number
01:51:07seven only a few people in your life are going to matter in the long run when you find them
01:51:11treat them right make time for them keep them close and be grateful you know sometimes when
01:51:17I when I put together stuff like that I'm like hearing you read that back to me like
01:51:25the the thought that comes to mind is like how is this not taught in schools like how
01:51:30how are we just how is this not just discover this at 34 right like why why do people have
01:51:36to listen to podcasts all day to like hear some of this stuff I it just seems so fundamental
01:51:45you know but it is interesting one of the things one of the things that my perspective has shifted
01:51:53you know I've been doing this for 17 years too long yeah a lot yeah a long time and when
01:52:01I look at at things that I've I've either changed my mind about or changed my perspective on
01:52:06through over the course of my career I think one of the big ones is that you know early
01:52:09in my career I I really thought it was all about just like ideas information knowledge
01:52:15right it's like finding there's like a few pieces of key knowledge that if you can kind
01:52:20of figure it out if you can dig through enough psych studies and find the application like
01:52:24it's just going to be a key that unlocks all these areas of your life and I think if you
01:52:30were a consumer of personal growth advice like that the experience you have often feels that
01:52:37way but I don't think that's true I think actually what is true is that there are just certain
01:52:43concepts ideas principles that are pretty obvious and we all kind of already know them but we
01:52:53we lose it's it's extremely difficult to keep them in front of our base yep through day-to-day
01:52:59life and so we need we need rituals and reminders consistently and I actually think that for
01:53:08most of human history I think religion was that mechanism of those reminders to like keep
01:53:13people like hey nobody's like you're responsible for this hey treat people well that person
01:53:18matters you know like let go of the the small stuff but I think in in our modern our modern
01:53:25world you know it's people most people are losing that and so you're you're almost seeing
01:53:32this like reinvention of those rituals online through like what you and I do through podcasts
01:53:39and Instagram and YouTube and all this stuff and I do it as well right it's like I've got
01:53:44my shows and and I've got the channels I follow and the people I follow and it's like they
01:53:50it's it's not that any individual piece of information is like changing my life unlocking
01:53:56this whole area of my life it's just like oh yeah it's a good reminder that's so true I
01:54:00think because the modern world is filled with novelty anything that we've seen before we
01:54:06don't usually want to hear again yeah do you think well I already know that even if you
01:54:09don't even if there's 10 things that you basically just need to hear over and over again what
01:54:16you need to do I think is play the game of novelty whilst just redelivering the same core
01:54:22message yes and that's going to be anti-memetic and wholly unimpressive to people this is the
01:54:27fucking clean your room thing again this is the tell the truth thing again oh neediness
01:54:32is it you go okay well I can lie to you and create this sort of fugazi gaslight thing where
01:54:40I say this new thing is the big unlock right or I can just try to repackage stuff that is
01:54:48the existing concept so it satisfies your desire for novelty and my own desire for novelty whilst
01:54:54reinforcing the principle that is most accurate and that's really I think what a lot of the
01:54:59time is now and we were talking before we got started I think that very very dense information
01:55:06consumption and over optimization is kind of dead in the water and the alternative is reminding
01:55:15people stuff that they already know in a manner that just you know how the ebbing house forgetting
01:55:21curve works like a space repetition it's why I'm going to flash cards and stuff work like
01:55:25that basically you need that but with novelty added in so that people are just regularly
01:55:32reminded oh yeah I just need to like go for a walk and sleep more yeah oh right yeah I
01:55:39just I probably need to say how I feel to my partner when something upsets me I've started
01:55:49one way I think about it sometimes is that a lot of this advice it's almost like having
01:55:53a fire extinguisher in the room you know like it's it's you've probably had the experience
01:55:58where you know maybe you read something five years ago and you're like yeah it's obvious
01:56:04I I know that and then something happens in your life right it's like you get dumped or
01:56:09like somebody dies or you move across the world and you're like suddenly you're like oh my
01:56:14god I need this so bad right now yeah well one of the most embarrassing things is to realize
01:56:19that the problem you're facing was solved by something that you learned long ago yes but
01:56:24didn't appreciate and then and then have to now go and relearn yeah you're like fuck or
01:56:29that you're now facing a problem that you faced in the past and that you not only learn something
01:56:34but a specific type of pain that both me and you do you go oh I wrote about this I fucking
01:56:39wrote this thing tell me about it and I'm like tell me about it yeah yeah so I I had a speaking
01:56:46of like you know ascending the mountain and struggling to deal with fame you know when
01:56:50my book took took off you know I went into a real identity crisis I think I've talked
01:56:56to you about this before on the show but you know I had that first year or two when my book
01:57:01was number one everywhere it was like just all these crazy things happening I felt super
01:57:07disoriented and like very lost and kind of went through a little bit of a depression became
01:57:13I got everything I ever wanted and it made me depressed yeah pretty much and like massive
01:57:17imposter syndrome for for a period of time and started started saying yes to a bunch of
01:57:23things I didn't want to say yes to right and so then I ended up in this situation where
01:57:27I'm like I feel trapped in my own career I'm like obligated to do all these things for these
01:57:32people that I don't really want to be doing I'm like stressed all the time I'm anxious
01:57:37my health's going to shit and and it's I'm fat and I'm fat on top of everything else
01:57:46that insult to injury fucking fat and it's so funny because I remember when I was doing
01:57:58my film you know it was that we were doing a film on the sun or not giving a fuck and
01:58:04I hadn't really read the book since I wrote it and so I went back I'm like well I should
01:58:08probably read my book again so I went back and I read this is like 2018 2019 I went back
01:58:13and it was like all the shit I just I've been spending the last two years dealing with it
01:58:17was like in my own book and I'm like I'm I'm fucking all of this up I'm like I'm saying
01:58:22yes to things I don't care about I'm like overloading my life with all these distractions I'm like
01:58:28not standing up for myself I've like lost clarity on what I value like just like chapter by
01:58:32chapter by chapter I'm choosing the wrong struggles yeah and I I just I it was rough it was really
01:58:39rough I like I had to really have like a heart to heart with myself of like dude what get
01:58:47it together yeah it's like it's like personal growth groundhog day one thing that I think
01:58:54is is kind of important I I understand how you can say hey look it's a small bucket of
01:59:00principles over optimization thinking about your life too much all of these things like
01:59:03they you're majoring in the minors etc etc that is true once you've been through it yes
01:59:12it is not true before you've been through it breaking the rules of the game before you've
01:59:16learned how to play the game is not breaking the rules of the game and being an innovator
01:59:21or being some essentialized distiller of cool stuff it's playing a different game and this
01:59:28is why I highly recommend that people become totally obsessed with personal development
01:59:32and productivity and David Allen's getting things done and James Clear's atomic habits
01:59:37and Morgan House of psychology money and the subtle art of not giving a fuck for like probably
01:59:42between three and six years and then once you've done that you can sort of get your black belt
01:59:50put it on and go okay yeah 95% of that was packaging here are the bits that really matter
01:59:59and I'm now going to spend the rest of time trying to just maintain that momentum and not
02:00:07overcomplicate stuff and maybe once a year there'll be a novel insight which is genuinely
02:00:12principled and fundamental that I just didn't know yet but you can't get to that level without
02:00:18having gone through the first bit and maybe it's just the case that the world of everybody
02:00:24went through the same holy fuck like this is novel but talking about like choosing your
02:00:31struggles appropriately or even neediness and stuff like that that was novel when it happened
02:00:35but that area of cognitive real estate that territory is now being you know when you play
02:00:39a video game and the maps all fogged out yeah and then after you've played it for a while
02:00:45the areas get opened up it's like well that area is opened up now so assuming that you've
02:00:50gone through this process previously it was kind of like humans were moving at the same
02:00:56level that technology developed yeah but if you start doing personal development now there's
02:01:00so much technology that you can speed run all the way up to the top whereas for us it's like
02:01:05wow telling the truth is something this is revolutionary not that I've just discovered
02:01:09it but it's just been said yeah right this is this is groundbreaking research but because
02:01:15there's so much to go through and maybe it's just the case that the era that we're in had
02:01:21a formative hockey curve like j-shaped thing where wow there's a fucking ton of insight
02:01:29that's repackaged ancient wisdom for a secular world that's distilled down into good language
02:01:33that's memorable I should I'm learning this as it goes in a new book in a new book in a
02:01:37new book and now we're at the stage where much of that territory that's important has
02:01:42been captured yes and now because everybody kind of started the race whether you were but
02:01:4818 or 28 or 48 everybody started it kind of at the same time and Peterson comes along and
02:01:53you and James and you go oh wow like that's that's now all being done so everybody has
02:02:00a degree of personal development fatigue but that's not true if you're starting your journey
02:02:05be like hey I'm yes I'm a fat piece of shit correct and I'm 25 and I've never done any
02:02:09of this it's like lock in for the next six years yes absolutely and then and then it is
02:02:14very much after that is it is just about maintaining the practice right it is interesting like to
02:02:20nerd out a little bit on kind of the history of this because I do think this is interesting
02:02:25right it's it is we do live in a very unique moment in the fact that this information is
02:02:33so diffuse universally available completely free like it when I was growing up you had
02:02:41to go pay Tony Robbins $10,000 to hear any of this right you had to go you had to join
02:02:46a graduate program at Cornell and looking like study psychology for three years to hear any
02:02:51of this right so there was like massive gatekeepers not democratized not democratized at all extremely
02:02:58like marketed extremely aggressively and like very very predatory in some circumstances yeah
02:03:04with another podcast for another day but it the internet is what opened up the opportunity
02:03:12for this kind of diffusion of all this information across the entire population and I think when
02:03:17I look at kind of my generation you know me James Ryan and a bunch of others like really
02:03:25what we were doing is we were taking the stuff that used to only be available behind closed
02:03:29doors or in really exclusive seminars or you know deep in academic research and then we
02:03:35were repackaging it for a wider internet audience and I think through the 2010s that was a pretty
02:03:43novel and important function that was being played and within society is but now we're
02:03:50at the point where like you can literally just get on Instagram and see 800 pieces of the
02:03:55same advice any day of the week that you want and it's all free and it's all like widely
02:04:00available and it's all repeated to death and so it does raise an interesting point of like
02:04:06I do think that saturation of information for people is probably like you said it's it's
02:04:14been sped run speed run yes speed ran speed run speed ran at this point you know whereas
02:04:22like 15 years ago you would have to spend years and years like really digging deep into books
02:04:27and in studies and research now you can probably get the gist of that within a year or two and
02:04:32so it really does make the implementation aspect of it I think more important than ever before
02:04:40but there's not that's not generalizable right you know so like that's that's where the rub
02:04:47is now so I in many ways I feel it's like a very weird time it is it is it's it's certainly
02:04:52a transition and it's this idea of something that's anti-memetic not just something that
02:04:58isn't memetic not something that won't spread but something that is actively pushed back
02:05:03against and not spread or maybe even criticized to the point where it sort of shrinks and unfortunately
02:05:10telling people the new information isn't better necessarily or at least not at the speed that
02:05:16perhaps it used to be the market slowed down it might be a way to think about it doesn't
02:05:21sound very good because if you've got a problem you want to believe that there's a solution
02:05:26but if there's a solution that's already out there the reason that you haven't fixed your
02:05:30problem is your fault as opposed to oh this new thing that's novel that's what we've got
02:05:35this massive recency bias around it and yeah it is there's a there's a definitely a transition
02:05:40period going on and that's why I think your solved podcast series is fucking great that's
02:05:47different because it is so in-depth whether you want to learn about fear or relationships
02:05:51or whatever it is so in-depth that that's not been done before some of the stuff that I've
02:05:56got coming up with different guests sat around the table is it's not been done before okay
02:06:01that's unique and at least novel genuinely novel and the insights that have come out of
02:06:05it novel but for the most part if it's and this is going to get worse with AI it's going
02:06:10to get significantly worse however bad and repetitive and sloppy you think that your least
02:06:19favorite optimization obsessed influencer of choice has been imagine that powered by fucking
02:06:26infinite robot army yeah that's coming yeah and not to mention a thousand copycats on
02:06:33tick tock and Instagram right so it's it's just like anything that gets any traction is
02:06:37just gonna be parroted thousands and thousands of times already derivative but now it's derivative
02:06:43it's scale powered by AI yes so I actually think we're gonna re-enter speaking of being
02:06:52bullish and bearish I actually think I'm like bullish on authority and credibility over the
02:06:59next 10 years I think there's gonna be a mass return towards because I just think there's
02:07:05gonna be so much slop out there and especially in this market like there's just gonna be so
02:07:11much crap being espoused by like random stick figures and shit on YouTube like that people
02:07:17are gonna lose patience very quickly and they're gonna crave like please just show me somebody
02:07:22who like actually knows what they're talking about or who's actually done something so it's
02:07:28it's actually kind of ironic because it's I think the great explosion in the dissemination
02:07:35of this of this information that to people 10-15 years ago it was kind of the destruction
02:07:42of like credibility its downfall right yeah credibility doesn't matter anymore right it's
02:07:46like if you've got a good idea you can just write a blog post and everybody can read it
02:07:49or you know and like that was great back then but it now it's it's been taken to such an
02:07:53extreme that there's gonna be like this incredible demand for authority and credibility I think
02:07:58is almost certainly going to be a pedestal ization of legacy media mainstream media I
02:08:04think that if you get placed on 60 minutes or the new dr. phil or whatever whatever the
02:08:11next version of that is yeah because anybody can do YouTube what were you grinning about
02:08:16dude I got a crazy story for you so so yes I agree and and like this is already happening
02:08:23so so you mentioned it earlier I started a an AI company last year it's an AI personal
02:08:29growth coach it's called purpose everybody go check it out it's cool check it out so when
02:08:35we we launched in December and we hired a PR agency to go get a bunch of publicity and like
02:08:41conventional media you know put the logos on the website all that shit and dude it was so
02:08:46funny so the publicists they go they get all these like you know interviews with big newspaper
02:08:52I'm not gonna call I'm not gonna name check anybody big newspapers newspapers everybody
02:08:57would refer has heard of TV stations radio stations like all traditional stuff very prestigious
02:09:04you know we're trying to get the logos so I go and I do these interviews with like quote
02:09:11unquote like prestigious journalists and we talk about the app for like 10 minutes or whatever
02:09:16and you can tell that like they don't give two shits like it's just you know they've got
02:09:22some generic article that they're doing about like AI products or whatever and they're just
02:09:28gonna drop a quote from me in it and and mention mention the product and so it very like half-assed
02:09:3510-minute conversation and and and we wrap up very quickly and I'm like okay well this
02:09:42was very fast and then the journalists would be like well wait while I've got you here so
02:09:48I'm working on a book right now and I was wondering if if I could run some ideas by you
02:09:55this happens three times three times that base so basically what happened was the journalists
02:10:01understanding their position which is prestige media this guy needs a logo for his website
02:10:07you know because it's I'm the logo right I'm the logo I'm working on a book this guy's a
02:10:12huge best-selling author prestige for expertise trade let's barter motherfuckers dude so most
02:10:19of those calls was me giving career advice in exchange for a quote in their fucking newspaper
02:10:28I would have just said I would have just said to all of them once they once they've done
02:10:31it it's like I think your idea is shit I'm sorry I think I think your idea sucks nobody's
02:10:36gonna read this give up I highly recommend that you don't do it just leave them all dejected
02:10:41oh man it was it was crazy it's it's a weird world man sorry to interrupt your scrolling
02:10:48but this is a friendly reminder that your time on this earth is extremely limited and everyone
02:10:52you love is going to die one day so maybe you should put the fucking phone away and go and
02:10:56do something meaningful do that the deaf salience thing is just it's it's it's magical isn't
02:11:05it isn't the momento mori like it's just so magical and especially like I guess with like
02:11:12you know the doom scrolling kids these days like it is it it's such an important practice
02:11:21I think to just like take that moment not every day but like periodically of like is this if
02:11:30I were to die soon is this what I would want to be doing you know if when I'm 80 am I gonna
02:11:35look back and be proud of what I'm doing and it's that that's one of those things I'm glad
02:11:43how mimetic that is right it's because I remember I remember so in subtle art the last chapter
02:11:50is called and then you die and I remember my my publisher was like you know this is kind
02:11:56of dark are you sure you know publisher supposed to finish it on an up note yeah exactly you'd
02:12:02be all inspiring and everything but I felt really strongly about it because it's just
02:12:07like the the kind of being confronted with death had been like so impactful my life and
02:12:14it was a big part of stoic philosophy Buddhist philosophy a bunch of different philosophies
02:12:20that's one thing that I never expected to be mimetic but it is incredibly mimetic and it
02:12:24is I'm like thrilled with how much traction that gets and and that people do resonate with
02:12:30it and they do find value in it and they do respond to it and engage in it so yeah I just
02:12:37I just think it's it's a great practice I'm glad that people stop scrolling and think about
02:12:42it yeah I a few questions that I think are useful what do you regret from the last year
02:12:49what do you regret that you did too much of and not enough of typically that's the same
02:12:53stuff that you did for the last decade but you can't remember the last decade so if you
02:12:57look at the last 12 months of your life what do you do too much of and what do you do too
02:13:01little of if you wanted to make 85 year old you as miserable as possible when they look
02:13:08back in their life oh that would be easy what would you what would you do what would you
02:13:11do more of what would you do less of you know I mean there's that famous five regrets of
02:13:15the dying right which had allowed myself to be happy I wish I kept in touch with my friends
02:13:19more I wish I hadn't worked so much we are maybe just about to breach the first wave of
02:13:31people who are had a good chunk of their life spent on their smartphone and on devices who
02:13:35were about to die it has to be number one yeah it has to be number one yeah there's no way
02:13:43that I wish I'd spent less time looking at the screen it just has to jump to the top of
02:13:47the charts as soon as that wave of people begin to die on mass and it's still probably
02:13:53what like smartphones been around 20 just under 20 years now so he's 65 70 like it's still
02:14:01not it's still not quite there a couple more decades yeah yeah one more decade and that's
02:14:05gonna start but within two it's just gonna be fucking I don't know man I've seen some
02:14:08good memes that's true some really good me that is true but you've never been the subject
02:14:13of them that's why you have the you have the optimal level of fame you have the optimal
02:14:16level of fame which is you can get a seat at a restaurant that's very busy but for the
02:14:20most part people aren't going to make a meme about you on the internet yeah I think that's
02:14:24the way you should go all right last one yeah at some point you realize that the permission
02:14:28you've been waiting for all along was your own yeah it I think so often we seek advice
02:14:39when really all we want is somebody to just tell us it's okay it's okay to want what we
02:14:44want it's okay to stop doing something to change our mind to be wrong about something
02:14:57I don't I don't get it's it's interesting you know back in the day I used to get a lot
02:15:00of emails like fan emails and stuff people asking for questions for advice I still get
02:15:06some but it is amazing how many emails messages questions I get that it you could really just
02:15:14boil it down to this person feels bad about something and just wants to be told it's okay
02:15:22to feel bad about and or this person wants to do something but they're afraid and they
02:15:29just need somebody to say no no you should do that that's it that's all they want they
02:15:33don't need a fucking theory or a framework or you know a full like breakdown of their
02:15:38childhood trauma they'd they just need somebody to say like it's okay you you should do that
02:15:44it seems important to you yeah I think the world is kind of split into two groups of people
02:15:50people who don't know how to improve their lives and those who are too scared to start
02:15:55and the first group doesn't care that they're going to do what they do they're not going
02:16:02to overthink it and then there's another group that's paralyzed by their capacity to think
02:16:06obviously there's people that managed to overcome that but almost anybody who is thoughtful and
02:16:12making shit happen in the world has had to overcome their thoughtfulness like the thoughtfulness
02:16:18is the fuel but it's also the barrier to getting there because as we said right at the top the
02:16:24degree of uncertainty that you have is paralyzing it keeps you in place so yes someone coming
02:16:29along and going hey man like it's okay to want that thing or it's okay to not think that that
02:16:36thing's cool you should try and do that thing you just should and close the loop and that's
02:16:43fine I describe myself as having a lifestyle wide praise kink I respond well to encouragement
02:16:55I respond really fucking well to encouragement and this again there's two types of British
02:16:59people there's British people who thrive on mutual piss-taking yeah and there's British
02:17:05people that were meant to be American people and I'm in the latter camp like you're a very
02:17:09enthusiastic country right you basically we are you basically have permanent first-line
02:17:13cocaine energy that's what you know I want to make enthusiasm great again and I want to
02:17:21re-export it back to the UK yeah mega and that that was just something for me that was a pathway
02:17:27for me hey I'd happy to do the mutual piss-taking sat around the table with my boys but when
02:17:32it comes to really going for stuff I much prefer to be around people that are like yeah you got
02:17:38this go and fucking crush it as opposed to gay like the first one works for me I've got tons
02:17:45of friends that are back home who they don't care it just doesn't fact Piers Morgan had this
02:17:49conversation with Piers he's like I like the piss-taking I'm like Piers that's because you've
02:17:53got a galactic ego you need someone to keep your feet on the ground that's fine that's good for you
02:17:57those of us that are a little bit more permanently unsure for me it's good the encouragement things
02:18:02good and that's very cringy in the UK yeah export yourself to the US where that's kind of that runs
02:18:09much more in the the pioneers spirit and what huh it's okay for me to want that yeah it's okay for me
02:18:15to say that that's something that I like it was okay for me when I was 27 28 to your I'm a club
02:18:22promoter who's going to stop drinking I like that doesn't sound very revolutionary in the world of
02:18:27athletic brewing co na beers near be a you know Heineken double zero bullshit but I mean in British
02:18:36culture yes a club promoter in 2000 and fucking 16 sounds insane that was yeah that was me inventing
02:18:43fire and it sometimes people can do stuff without anybody telling them that it's okay but a lot of
02:18:50the time that's what people are looking for I'm worried about this thing happening and I'm scared
02:18:54and somebody go it's all right man you got this well maybe you don't but you'll be all right anyway
02:18:59yes I'm okay no matter what happens that too I tend to notice this I mean it's this is pretty
02:19:05proportional to age right like it's young people I feel like need this reassurance all the time I
02:19:10feel like as you get older you just start realizing you're like nobody knows what the fuck they're
02:19:15doing and no one was thinking about you anyway yeah nobody exactly nobody's really gives a shit
02:19:20what you what you decide it is it is interesting you know the British culture thing hearing you
02:19:27describe it it just it feel to me if as an American it feels like the epitome of the I'd rather be
02:19:33right than happy yeah it's or maybe it's like I'd rather be snarky than happy like it's lights I'd
02:19:40rather be snarky than cringy and cringy is being enthusiastic yeah because if you plant a flag in
02:19:45the ground and say this is my position you create a criteria for success which also means you create
02:19:50criteria for failure yeah and that means that if someone can snipe away at it they can make you
02:19:55fail but also that if you succeed you leave them behind there's this wonderful difference between
02:20:00American people and British people American people hope that you succeed in case you take them with
02:20:06you and British people hope that you fail in case you leave them behind hmm and I wish it wasn't true
02:20:10and it's not for everyone yeah but many of the people like the UK had the second highest millionaire
02:20:16exits in 2024 behind China but China's got like 13 times the population or something it's insane
02:20:24how much bigger it is so per capita we lost the most millionaires by multiples why it's not a very
02:20:32welcoming environment for people that want to do different things they want to be innovative
02:20:35that don't want to sort of follow that path it doesn't mean matter about whether or not you want
02:20:38to be a fucking millionaire or not if you want to make a change to your lifestyle or the way that you
02:20:42look or the things that you think or the culture that you're embedded in or the way that you raise
02:20:46your kids or whatever it's just not that welcoming and that's why we have the same number of universities
02:20:52in the top ten globally but American universities produce five times more entrepreneurs than British
02:20:58universities do and remember that we have an international fucking cohort yeah so people come
02:21:03get contorted by the culture and then leave with this veneer this sort of varnish that's gone on
02:21:12top of them but yeah it's a it's an interesting one dude look I appreciate the fuck out of you
02:21:17it's it's fascinating to watch this whatever we're in some renaissance I don't know whether it's a
02:21:22renaissance or a dark ages that's that's happening but there's something there's something sort of
02:21:31twisting and changing in this world personal growth personal development and I really fucking
02:21:37appreciate that you're there helping to steward it in whatever way you can yeah it's really cool
02:21:41same man thank you cool thank you what's where people go Oh mark Manson done that solve podcast
02:21:50and purpose dot app free seven-day trial check it out mark Manson in your pocket but without the
02:21:56touchy-feely thing yeah so it's it's an AI that's that's optimized to challenge you know it's call
02:22:03call you out on your bullshit spot blind spots challenge your assumptions basically all the
02:22:08things like a good coach would do to help you grow instead of just you know kiss your ass make you
02:22:14feel good unreal appreciate you man until next time thanks thank you very much for tuning in if
02:22:20you enjoyed that episode YouTube knows who you are deeply it thinks you're gonna like this one even
02:22:26more fun press it