00:00:00I saw you react to a video, if I tell you to leave me alone and you leave me alone, you're
00:00:04legit dead to me.
00:00:05Right.
00:00:06What do you think of that?
00:00:09In some ways it depends, but in general, I don't think that's a very fun game.
00:00:15I don't like playing that game where you have to guess at what people mean.
00:00:20It's like don't talk to me means talk to me.
00:00:23I don't know about you.
00:00:24I'm not good at decoding those kinds of signals personally.
00:00:29How are you supposed to know?
00:00:31So yeah, I think being straightforward weirdly has to be, it's a skill that can be developed
00:00:38and younger people are less likely to have that skill.
00:00:41I remember when I was younger in college, especially, I didn't know how to communicate how I was
00:00:49really feeling to people.
00:00:50And I also didn't know if it was safe to do that.
00:00:52And so you use this kind of like angle to get there and they go, you know, I'm looking sad
00:00:58today.
00:00:59I want to make sure I want somebody to notice that I'm looking sad today.
00:01:02And they go, oh, you look sad today.
00:01:03Are you sad?
00:01:04And I go, no.
00:01:05Why do you ask?
00:01:06Because I want them to ask more.
00:01:10I want them to dig deeper, you know.
00:01:12So I was so close, but not quite there.
00:01:15And that is odd to me that we would need to teach people to be straightforward.
00:01:19And yet here we are.
00:01:20Because there's more effort needed to obfuscate the thing that we actually want.
00:01:24Right.
00:01:25It's like, what are you doing?
00:01:26Why are you playing that game?
00:01:28And I think in many ways, it's self protective.
00:01:30It's kind of like flirting.
00:01:31But with your emotions, like making them prove that they care about me enough to dig deeper.
00:01:37And yet I don't it doesn't require me to put myself out there.
00:01:40I don't have to.
00:01:41It is hard to say.
00:01:42Like if I say to you, hey, Chris, I'm feeling sad today.
00:01:43I don't know.
00:01:44Like this interview, I don't know how it's going to go.
00:01:48Can you imagine if I had started that way?
00:01:50You've been like, oh, okay.
00:01:52You know that.
00:01:53So you have to pick your spots.
00:01:55But at the same time, if you are in fact feeling sad, which I'm not, by the way, but this is
00:02:00great.
00:02:01But there is a there's a way to reveal that that's more socially appropriate.
00:02:06And I think that's where the skill is really learnable.
00:02:09Why do women say things like leave me alone, but actually mean the opposite?
00:02:17How should I know?
00:02:18No.
00:02:19I, so I think it can be for a variety of reasons.
00:02:23We could look at it through a cultural lens.
00:02:26And I think culturally, women have been more penalized for sharing openly than men have
00:02:32historically, I think today, you know, it could go either way, maybe men are even being
00:02:37penalized more.
00:02:38But I think that's one lens of explanation that people sometimes use is that women have
00:02:42had to be very careful in how they communicate.
00:02:45And that has been transmitted across time to women today, even if it's not as true as it
00:02:49used to be.
00:02:50So okay, so that's that's maybe one lens.
00:02:53Another is that truly social media communication teaches them to do it.
00:02:57And so that is it's like, hey, ladies, this is what you have to do.
00:03:01Never tell a guy, X instead, do ABC.
00:03:07And other times, it can just be learning, you know, you learn over time, like when you're
00:03:12in fifth grade, that if you pretend to be sad around a boy, he'll pay extra attention to
00:03:18you.
00:03:20And then you never learn a better skill, well, you're still doing that when you're 30.
00:03:24And now people are dealing with it.
00:03:26You know, on when you're trying to connect with them on hinge or whatever.
00:03:33Joe Hudson, friend of mine, his daughter was seven years old crying in the bathtub.
00:03:38And she'd been crying in there quite regularly over the last couple of weeks.
00:03:42And he went in and the way that she was crying sounded kind of angry.
00:03:46At the same time, he said, hey, you know, when you're crying, how often are you sad and how
00:03:52often you pissed off?
00:03:55Pissed off.
00:03:56So okay, well, why, why are you crying if you're if you're angry?
00:03:59So when I'm angry, everyone runs away.
00:04:02But when I cry, my sister comes and gives me a hug.
00:04:06Exactly.
00:04:07So there is the real, it's not just the message.
00:04:10It's the way that that's received.
00:04:12And yeah, I think it's a difficult one.
00:04:17Putting us, learning direct communication or not speaking in shadow sentences, right?
00:04:22Not pointing in the direction of the thing that you mean, but saying it in a way where
00:04:28you don't plant what you want so that it can't be denied so that you can't ever be invalidated.
00:04:34But you also deny the person the opportunity of actually giving you what it is that you
00:04:38want.
00:04:39So it's kind of the same as telling somebody to hit the bullseye on a dartboard, but they've
00:04:42got to have their eyes closed, or you're moving it like this all the time.
00:04:48Okay, I guess passive aggression, shadow sentences stuff is similar to passive aggression.
00:04:54What's the role of passive aggression in relationships, you know, why it comes about, what its role
00:04:59is?
00:05:00Yeah, absolutely.
00:05:01So sometimes researchers will call it indirect aggression as well.
00:05:04You know, there's multiple names, depending on which angle in the literature you're taking.
00:05:10And that too is one that has been debated and kind of misunderstood over time.
00:05:14It used to be thought that men were aggressive, aggressive, and then women were passive aggressive
00:05:19or indirectly aggressive.
00:05:21And what more recent kind of recent research has shown is that men are just more aggressive
00:05:25across the board.
00:05:29Including indirectly?
00:05:30Yes.
00:05:31Yeah, yeah.
00:05:32So there are maybe equal levels of women with indirect, but then when you add or maybe even
00:05:37a little less, but then when you add aggression, aggression, it's like, no guys are in fact,
00:05:41more aggressive.
00:05:42But women, I think are more, I wouldn't say it's rewarded, it's more socially appropriate
00:05:49for women to be indirectly aggressive, typically, and it's also less dangerous.
00:05:54So think about it this way.
00:05:56If you say to a buddy, you know, you're fighting, and you take a swing at him, you're probably
00:06:01going to hold your own at worst.
00:06:04You personally, I mean, you're a big guy, you know, you're gonna hold your own at worst.
00:06:08If a woman takes a swing at her guy friend in anger, that's very dangerous.
00:06:15And so as a result, women tend to use passive aggression or indirect aggression a bit more
00:06:20simply because it's a safer outlet.
00:06:23And I think, you know, this is not my area of specialization, but I think there's some
00:06:28evidence that shows that when women are dealing with other women, they're a lot more likely
00:06:34to be aggressive, aggressive than if they were dealing with men.
00:06:40Because the potential physical repercussion coming back to them, given that they're more
00:06:43fragile and more valuable evolutionarily, they're less likely to have lethal force be applied
00:06:49because the imbalance just isn't there.
00:06:51Correct.
00:06:52I'd have to go back and check on them.
00:06:53I'm almost positive I've read that.
00:06:55Makes total sense.
00:06:56The female intrasexual competition is the least popular on the internet, most fascinating.
00:07:05It's got the biggest disparity between how much you're allowed to talk about it, how little
00:07:09you're allowed to talk about it and how fascinating it is to study.
00:07:12It is fucking endlessly interesting.
00:07:17Joyce Benenson's, the Candace Blake's, the Corey Clark's, the fucking Christina Gerantes,
00:07:22the Tracy Viancoise with Mean Girls, like all of this stuff is so fucking sick.
00:07:26I remember Rob Henderson taught me this story, maybe it was boss, a woman had been kidnapped
00:07:35by an Amazonian tribe while she was on a tour.
00:07:38And she'd been taken into the local tribe after she'd been taken from her touring group.
00:07:46And when she was there, a little boy had come up and given her a little parcel, given her
00:07:53a parcel that had some food in it and no, sorry, one of the women had come up, one of
00:07:58the boys had come up, given her a parcel that had some food in it and it was, you can eat
00:08:01this and she smelled it and it sort of smelled bad.
00:08:04So she didn't want to, and then she went and sort of laid it down somewhere and didn't bother
00:08:09eating it.
00:08:10And then a little bit later in the day, one of the kids fell super ill.
00:08:16And when asked, what's happened?
00:08:18Why are you ill, she said, oh, that woman put this thing down near me and I went over
00:08:24and ate it.
00:08:26And they chased her through the jungle.
00:08:28You've just tried to poison one of these children.
00:08:30What it turned out had happened was that some of the other women had given the parcel to
00:08:37a child to give to her, knowing that she would either eat it and get sick or put it down and
00:08:42then they could accuse her of it.
00:08:43And I'm like, do you understand just how stupid the male equivalent of that would be?
00:08:52Like if it was a guy that had come in and the guys didn't like him, they would have like
00:08:56man take rock, man throw rock at man.
00:09:01And there's this seven step inception thing, Christopher Nolan's designed it, but you know,
00:09:07it's got redundancies built in.
00:09:09If she doesn't do it, she'll give it to someone and then it'll hurt them.
00:09:12And then we can say that she, I'm like, oh, I am so glad that I'm not a woman.
00:09:17I'm endlessly glad that I'm not a woman for that reason.
00:09:19I could not navigate that situation at all.
00:09:22And I was shocked.
00:09:23So I made, I think I've made one or two posts on intersexual competition recently.
00:09:29And I thought people might find it to be mildly interesting.
00:09:32I find it to be very interesting, you know, and it's one of the things we studied in grad
00:09:36school a bit.
00:09:37And I made this post and I started taking shots from all over the place is like, what,
00:09:43you guys have a problem with this?
00:09:44What?
00:09:45I thought it was just as well-accepted principle.
00:09:47That's why I almost didn't post about it.
00:09:49I'm out of touch.
00:09:50It's so obvious.
00:09:51I don't know what people don't know.
00:09:52And apparently A, people don't know about this and B, when they find out, they get real mad.
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