Why Everyone Is Drowning In Debt (and how to get out) - Caleb Hammer
CChris Williamson
Credit/Debt/LoansAuto Buying and SellingMarriageBeginning InvestingBuying/Selling
Transcript
00:00:00how do you describe what you do for work depends the viewer if i'm talking to the nice little
00:00:06church lady i'd tell her i'm helping helping young folks and some old folks with their money
00:00:12i'm just talking to just random person on the street i'd say i'm yelling at a bunch of retards
00:00:17who suck with money and roasting them along the way and having a lot of fun doing it i was going
00:00:23to ask why you get death threats but you've kind of precluded that i mean i don't understand like
00:00:29okay if you come on financial audit you would come through a multi-week onboarding process and
00:00:36give me all these things like let's pretend you didn't want to me to make fun of your curly hair
00:00:41for whatever reason you would tell me that you would tell the producers that because we ask you
00:00:45what you don't want in advance yeah yeah so we don't bring it up so and then i get consent to
00:00:50make sensitivity about myself yeah exactly so why get death threats for making fun of things that
00:00:56someone gave me explicit permission to make fun of makes no sense it's the being offended on behalf
00:01:03of someone who's not offended i will never get it i'm not the person i've never been that person i
00:01:07i don't understand it the white knighting yes yeah the moral hero the you're on your moral horse and
00:01:15i don't know you want your tiktok community to raise you up i guess it makes you feel good you get views
00:01:22it's one of the my least favorite categories of people are those that their morality stands on the
00:01:28shoulders of other people that they're saying are worse than them but don't look at how good i am
00:01:33because i don't want that scrutiny on me just look at how bad they are and implicitly that makes me feel
00:01:39like a person that's of higher moral standing it's pretty yeah we had um when we were filming this
00:01:43episode we had a guest on on our episode that uploaded yesterday and i brought in one of my
00:01:50co-workers employees also friends tyler black dude big black dude very intimidating can beat the shit out
00:01:57of anyone and like the guy where you were sitting is a piece of shit racist like an actual racist he was
00:02:04like did you do this on purpose cast him you brought a black person in with somebody that you knew would
00:02:10be racist so the guy was sitting where you said and he said you know i'm one of those people that says
00:02:15things that needed to be said and i was like okay pause brought in the guy that he would actually
00:02:19have a consequence oh right yep yeah and he was like uh yeah n-word so i just said that but you know
00:02:26what he consented to it obviously i wouldn't have my friend go through a situation he didn't like
00:02:31he even reacted to it on his own stream later that day he loved it no just loves being called the n-word
00:02:36gets off on it no black we scoured the internet no black person was like offended anywhere but there's
00:02:43a lot of white women that were super offended on his behalf saying that he should sue the show for
00:02:49having to go through that that's workplace harassment and all this stuff when he's friends
00:02:52we're i'm friends with him we're literally just having fun together making fun of the dude that was
00:02:57a piece of shit in front of us he and i were on the same team having a good time and it was just
00:03:03white ladies upset on the internet kind of blows my mind that people want to step into that environment
00:03:07because it's very intense it's not opposite someone originally it's one-on-one and then it's one-on-two
00:03:12but there's also maybe someone behind the scenes and you know that there's all of these people on the
00:03:16internet that are going to see you do this thing the psychology of someone that's prepared to go on a
00:03:22show like that and go head-to-head with someone on their home turf and be an asshole it it's kind of
00:03:29impressive it is it is it is almost impressive i don't think that i would be very good at if i was
00:03:35an asshole doing that and being on this side it's like if you are an asshole by design you're usually
00:03:40trying to keep it quiet so people don't realize people aren't advertising that assholery up front
00:03:46but that's what makes it fun though is that anyone who's seen our show or anyone who comes on the show
00:03:51has seen the show so they already know i'm an asshole then they watch two onboarding videos when they
00:03:56get sent to them when they have to watch in the green room and i'm like hey i'm an asshole i'm
00:04:00gonna make fun of you i'm gonna yell at you telling me what you don't want to do so honestly besides
00:04:04that piece of shit racist because i actually don't like someone who's actually racist um every other
00:04:09guest that has come on the show practically other than a few here and there i respect the fuck out of
00:04:14because yeah that's crazy showing up to a show that a lot of people are gonna see that you're gonna get
00:04:20goofed on but they also do get resources and the vast majority do change their lives for the better
00:04:24afterwards that is the fun effect of it they get to go through the whole cycle with us and
00:04:28i think it would be crazier for them to sign up if everything no matter their say was on display
00:04:34since they get to say what they don't want to talk about it gives them more control which if there is
00:04:39something that actually would impact their life or their job or their family they can call that out
00:04:44and not have that in the episode so they do have that level of control but they're still very brave
00:04:49and i have a huge amount of respect for them what is the process of getting access to somebody's
00:04:53financials and how do you know that they haven't kept something super secret behind the scenes that
00:04:59they haven't shown you right well it would be difficult for like a checking or savings account
00:05:04but we do get them to send us their credit karma with you know important things bleeped out
00:05:09their credit karma oh credit karma well it basically shows your credit report for the most part i mean
00:05:15it's kind of simulated it's not perfect you're not getting your like requesting your three free
00:05:20credit reports every single year or whatnot but um it's the app that many people use to actually
00:05:26see what's going on and the impact of their new debts they're opening their heart inquiries
00:05:31everything like that but if we get them to send their screenshots that way we can see if there's
00:05:36debts that they don't even know about because oftentimes there are debts that they don't
00:05:39know about collections that they don't know about so we're able to hold their feet to the fire that
00:05:43way do you think it's genuinely harder for young people today or our expectations the problem
00:05:51it's harder to do certain things i mean you're not going to be able to do the single income
00:05:56household thing like that's going to be there's going to be harder things right that's going to be
00:06:00harder buying your first home is going to be harder um you know getting your first car might be harder
00:06:07it depends you know how you do it that one's definitely a hit or miss for sure um that that's
00:06:12going to be harder but being independent in terms of groceries or rent or getting a comfy office job that
00:06:20is relatively decent pain like we've never had it better than ever before now you can take a snapshot in
00:06:25time this year this period in exact time yeah for college graduates it's objectively that's just an
00:06:31economic situation not a general uh generational situation because five years ago college graduates
00:06:36had a great they're entering the best job market in the history of humanity essentially when that
00:06:41pandemic money was just flowing from tech companies anyone could get a job but now it's objectively not
00:06:45but that's a period in time not a generational thing so the cost of practically every category of life
00:06:54spending as a percentage of income has dramatically dropped since the 1950s besides a few things that
00:07:01are very important buying a house healthcare and borrowing for school borrowing for school do you have
00:07:07to do that you know there's different paths we can talk community college we can talk
00:07:10apprenticeships trade schools okay so there's flexibility there house you don't have to buy a house
00:07:15when you know if you're a young person right now you don't have to in the and even if you do that
00:07:19actually might be a worse use of your money than in just investing in the s&p 500 healthcare yeah that
00:07:24one's fucked can't really control that one that's a mess so if something bad happens to you what's
00:07:29happened to the cost of healthcare over time oh just endlessly the premiums and if an emergency happens
00:07:35healthcare is one of those issues that's actually really interesting when it comes up on the show because
00:07:40i get very invested in trying to learn as much as i can about the personal finance categories across
00:07:46the board but for healthcare for some reason i've just missed it because this is one of those things
00:07:50that was never my passion so i never fully dove into the reason the why and how i just make sure you
00:07:58know i have the general necessity the the things that someone would need to make sure they're getting a
00:08:04halfway decent plan through their job and whatnot making sure their premiums aren't completely out
00:08:09of control that they can afford their co-pays that they have their highest deductible taken care of
00:08:14in the case of an emergency but speaking on the cost of healthcare you know this is that's definitely
00:08:19out of all things in the financial world not my expertise and i said i said that on another podcast
00:08:24that hasn't come out yet and now that it's come up in two podcasts in a row in a row i'm just you know
00:08:29i need to educate the fuck out of myself on healthcare because it's very curious because
00:08:33housing you talk about housing all day costs of college and school i could talk about that all
00:08:37day but not healthcare it's one of the big three one of the big three housing healthcare school you know
00:08:42a lot about the first the first and the last but there's a lot more that you can control so i'm
00:08:48interested in the things you can control it's very difficult for people to be able to control their
00:08:53actual healthcare situation whether or not they have a pre-diagnosis or there's only a few plans
00:08:57off getting into an accident exactly but school and housing there's a lot more control and financial
00:09:03audits more about what things you can control it's interesting that you said as a percentage of
00:09:09earnings the cost of living in almost all areas has become more affordable yeah except for three that
00:09:18are massive massive and those three have done so much damage that they've managed to basically net
00:09:26detract from all of the gains that were made and everything else yeah i mean it's pretty brutal but
00:09:31again with the two that i can speak on a little better house you don't have to buy a house so you
00:09:36have more choices there you don't have to buy a house fresh out of college you don't have to go
00:09:41when it comes to the cost of school there's so many different paths that include going to school
00:09:45and that's local four years that's community college that's not going to private institutions
00:09:51or going to your dream school because it has a sports team you're like it also has to do with
00:09:56if cost of college is high you need to make sure you're getting a degree that has an appropriate
00:10:00return on investment so there's lots of choices there so those three categories are pretty brutal
00:10:05but of two of them you still have choice in it gen z borrowers are carrying more credit card
00:10:10debt than millennials did at the same age despite growing up with more financial information
00:10:14than any generation before them yeah 98 of gen z say credit is important but only 53 believe they
00:10:21have adequate access to it and more than half of americans have used buy now pay later services
00:10:2759 of those users were gen z oh yeah that makes sense paying for clarna everything it's a very gen z
00:10:34thing tap to pay super easy to use those they're at every checkout for any concert you go to pretty much
00:10:41anything you want to do um so that's not surprising there is um i'm not i'm forgetting the term off the
00:10:47top of my head but it's something like doom loop or something that a lot of gen z is kind of getting
00:10:53into where mostly because of the information out there and the algorithms they find themselves in
00:10:58they think everything's going to be so bad forever why not just spend the money
00:11:02why not just put it on the credit card so it makes sense it seems to me like uh a big part of it is
00:11:10people being so unsure about the future and feeling like things are not going to get better that well
00:11:15fuck it it's almost like the end of days you know there's this interesting story about during the blitz
00:11:20in world war ii in london uh the amount of casual sex that people were having went through the roof
00:11:25but lingerie sales stayed the same and it was just people thought look i might die tomorrow it doesn't
00:11:31really matter about how sexy i look in bed let's just get down to it and it's kind of the financial
00:11:36equivalent of that i'm just going to dump it all which is this weird sort of uh recursive system it's
00:11:41this self-reinforcing mechanism that if you have negative information about the economy and about the
00:11:47quality of life for young people and about how hard you've got it and the fact that it's never going to
00:11:51get better that encourages people to behave in a way that makes the thing true yeah absolutely kind
00:11:57of wild it's a self it's a self-fulfilling prophecy that kind of gets not made out of nowhere there are
00:12:04real material changes but it's certainly worsened and it's tracked the university of michigan does
00:12:10consumer sentiment survey uh and that i think they've done it since the 1980s and right now is one of the
00:12:16three lowest we've ever had i think it was right when kovic kicked off the great recession and now
00:12:21now is not even near great recession in any other indicator anywhere it's not right when kovic kicked
00:12:26off when everything shut down and no one know what was knew what was going to happen but consumer
00:12:31sentiment is basically at an all-time low what do you think is going on well we are stuck in those
00:12:36algorithms you make money on negativity like even i have a documentary channel more of a passion
00:12:42project not much of a money maker it's cold i like it oh thanks called front page still getting the
00:12:47feel of it but either way i mean the reality is the the topics that are interesting to talk about
00:12:53are the more negative ones super positive content isn't as interesting to talk about for whatever
00:12:58reason i'm not interested in learning about super positive not interested in talking about super
00:13:02positive so does it feel urgent no exactly so that's the information that's getting out there
00:13:07that's the information that catches people's attention keeps them in the algorithm so i'm not surprised at
00:13:12all i mean nightly news other than one fluff piece is usually just negative negative negative even about
00:13:17the heat outside it's like the apocalypse uh it's it's always just negative so it's not surprising
00:13:23that's what drives our attention so it drives the algorithm so consumer sentiment will of course be
00:13:28lower right and that is impacting people's behavior which actually brings that reality it brings that
00:13:33imagination into reality it brings the news feed into your finances pretty interesting yeah even though
00:13:39consumer spending is actually relatively healthy overall like this isn't the best year in our economy
00:13:44but it's also not even close to the worst year things are relatively healthy there's some bad things
00:13:49like i called out there's the new graduates bad job market for new garage graduates and there's a lot of
00:13:56things at play there there are a lot of things at play there there's the nervousness of ai there was
00:14:00the over hiring during the tech boom during covid they've cut back there and if there's if there's no people
00:14:06leaving their jobs voluntarily there's no jobs opening and the people that are leaving their
00:14:10jobs and texts are the one getting laid off and they're not rehiring someone who's getting laid off
00:14:14so those job openings that were there during the pandemic aren't there so there's actual negative
00:14:19things happening right now but it's not the overall economic situation we're still having
00:14:25okay gdp growth post inflation um warn iran done allegedly we'll see is it he signed the uh idea of
00:14:36peace or something yesterday and so did iran the leader of iran that's like a guy with erectile
00:14:40dysfunction saying i've signed the idea of erection today yeah it's not the idea of a penis i want to
00:14:46get you to react to a financial case here can we pull up that tick tock i've had such a bad financial
00:14:50burden the last couple years so after meeting with an attorney and doing lots of research i realized
00:14:54that filing bankruptcy really isn't as bad as it's made out to be and it was truly going to be my
00:14:58best bet i decided to file chapter seven and you know truthfully my consumer debt really is not that
00:15:04bad a lot of people have it a lot worse financially but for me 91 000 was just too much it was uncomfortable
00:15:12and i just wanted to get a fresh start moved to texas directly after high school and i made a lot
00:15:18of very irresponsible decisions financially and really dug myself into a big hole of debt i decided
00:15:23let's go ahead and file bankruptcy let's give myself a clean slate that way i can stop stressing
00:15:27and i can actually do better okay just to give you a little breakdown of the debt that i do have that
00:15:31totals up to the 91 300 i owe about 51 000 on the vehicle that i have we did try selling that trading
00:15:38and all that good stuff but way too much negative equity to come out on top i bought a motorcycle back
00:15:43in 2022 thought that was a great idea um fucking americans tried selling it not able to get what we
00:15:50owe out of it and i do own a camper and i owe about 13 400 on that she's retarded because i can't afford a
00:15:59house um so i am keeping that since i do live in it i have 2200 worth of medical bills that i had no idea
00:16:06were in collections and then i have 12 000 worth of student loans however those do not get forgiven
00:16:12with bankruptcy so i will still continue that payment and then i have about 7 700 worth of credit card debt
00:16:18all coming into a grand total of 91 300 first of all okay yes it is harder to get into a home now yes a
00:16:25large sum payment is difficult to get to uh interest is not great on our house how in the world does she
00:16:30think she's possibly possibly going sorry i don't mean to scream you're not a guest on my show why does
00:16:37she think in in what world does she think she is ever going to get to home ownership if she's getting
00:16:43camper motorcycle in a 50 000 car 50 000 car when she's moving to a brand new state this is this is so
00:16:50american we are so debt brain broken and she's actually right i mean bankruptcy is actually not
00:16:55that hard not that brutal a little expensive but it's really not the worst it fucks your credit for
00:17:01a bit and it's not a good learning lesson people usually end up in the same situation they are
00:17:05without changing their behavior before going through bankruptcy so but she is right on that but how did
00:17:10she ever expect she can't get sympathy of not buying a house if she's getting a camper motorcycle and car
00:17:16of which minimum payments on the camper uh on the motorcycle and car are likely over a thousand
00:17:21dollars together like a thousand dollars going against anyone's income unless you're like in the
00:17:25top one percent is going to aggressively prevent you from saving anything remember she can get an fha
00:17:31loan on her first house she can get what is that as low as 1.5 something like that down on your first house
00:17:36um how would she how is she surprised you can't get anywhere and that also is really stupid getting
00:17:44a trailer instead of renting an apartment because she's she's getting debt on a depreciating asset
00:17:50it's almost even worse because an expense could pop up have to get new tires she has to pay rent
00:17:56anyway likely to park somewhere and get the utilities plugged in no she's america summed up
00:18:03what are the hidden costs of bankruptcy that no one wants to talk about
00:18:07uh i mean usually it costs it costs a couple thousand bucks to go through it go through the
00:18:11process and get a lawyer on your side um some court filings um there is the credit impact there
00:18:17is a credit impact seven to ten years depending and with that that could really make it more
00:18:23expensive to get into an apartment because that's usually instead of just a security deposit you might
00:18:28have to do first month last month that includes that includes rent not just buying yeah yeah just
00:18:33rent right instead of just doing a security deposit like someone with a decent credit score you might
00:18:37have to do first month last month as well which makes it very burdensome to get into an apartment
00:18:41but you're in a risk you're a riskier person you have bankruptcy and a lot of people have apartment
00:18:45collections so it's not surprising they would request that um you would have to get into a predatory
00:18:51car loan if your car breaks down you don't have money you have to get a 25 interest rate car
00:18:57just on a horrible like eight year term and it's probably some piece of car that you buy for 20 is
00:19:04worth 15 before it's even driven off uh then the credit cards you get you're not getting the the good
00:19:10intro zero percent cards you're like you're getting credit one cards at 29 with monthly fees even if you pay
00:19:19on time so you just get access to the worst services in the world of dads you're not getting approved for
00:19:24decent personal loans and again like i said the most important thing bankruptcy doesn't actually fix
00:19:29anything unless you fix your behavior because just like consolidating your debt or transferring to
00:19:34another credit card or um even letting things go to collections and negotiating them just like
00:19:40just like all those bankruptcy if you do not change the your behavior that got you into that situation in
00:19:47in the first place you will literally end up right back there again in a few years we've had a we've
00:19:51had quite a few upper aged people on our show that have been through bankruptcy multiple times and now
00:19:57they're heading there again because it changes nothing most people have no idea where their testosterone levels
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00:21:04what's the biggest misconception people have about why humans end up in debt um well a lot of it it's
00:21:13not necessarily a misconception but it's the wrong way to look at it is because of an emergency
00:21:18like yeah if you have zero dollars something happens you would have to probably go into debt for that
00:21:23but people don't look at what happened before then they were living their life spending whatever they
00:21:28wanted on fun they never saved up even a one-month emergency fund or a highest deductible coverage
00:21:34they didn't save up anything so of course when an emergency happens you're going to go into debt
00:21:39but it wasn't the emergency that did that it was you living your life not saving up even a three-month
00:21:45emergency fund which i would recommend six by the way but it's not saving that got you into that
00:21:51emergency debt not the emergency itself it was your behavior before that emergency
00:21:55yeah it i don't know it seems to me like a lot of financial success it has a knowledge component of
00:22:02understanding the physics of the system but a huge part of it is emotional regulation
00:22:08what's the relative amount of knowledge versus emotional regulation when it comes to
00:22:13being good with money depends where someone comes from i mean so i'm in a place of privilege
00:22:17now you could say i have information and yet i look like this i know what it takes to lose this this is
00:22:24now this is this is i have the knowledge this is all behavior at this point i got the tits i got the
00:22:29tits because i'm choosing that some people pay for them some people do i would pay to go it's free
00:22:34yes i'd pay to lose them but instead i'm just not doing the work that would be required to lose it
00:22:39i have the knowledge don't have the behavior yes so there are people in those financial situations
00:22:44there are going to be the people that come from a very different life incredibly low income
00:22:50no opportunity in their neighborhoods no people to look up to maybe even bad internet so they don't
00:22:56even get to watch the same podcast as us don't have a good library to go read a good personal finance
00:23:02book um and i don't want to just victimize someone or infantilize someone but there are harder
00:23:07situations to come from it doesn't mean they can't get out of it it just might be a little more
00:23:11difficult and you need to surround yourself with the right people do you find it difficult when
00:23:15somebody comes in front of you and a lot of the time it is because of decisions that someone has
00:23:19made and this illustrious uh like tailwinds that you've had of all of these people that have made
00:23:27bad decisions and then somebody comes in front of you who has come from a situation which has put them
00:23:33so far on the back foot financially do you sometimes find it hard to change gears with them as opposed to
00:23:38sort of pointing the finger too much to actually be like oh i i see you i see you in this problem that
00:23:42you're going through and that you've been you've been put into yeah i mean we really only allow people
00:23:47on the show where it's their fault because it's a personal behavior show so anyone that complains
00:23:51about the people on our show saying that well they can't control that no everyone that comes on our show
00:23:55they can control if someone applies and it's something out of their control something like an incredible
00:24:00medical diagnosis that's where we send them like a page of resources and like if we can connect you with
00:24:04anyone let us know but it doesn't make sense for financial audit because financial audit is about
00:24:08personal change so we just we just don't have those people because that's not the conversation yeah
00:24:14what's going back to personality traits what do you think of the personality traits that predict
00:24:18financial success that predict financial success certainly being disciplined i mean discipline
00:24:23comes down to everything um everything in the world of budgeting comes from or money comes from budgeting
00:24:31and budgeting is all about discipline so you know that's why we created dollar wise that personal
00:24:36finance app that budgeting app that is made for the every man not just like the you know super
00:24:42financial nerds who want to use things like ynav things like that that are incredibly difficult to use
00:24:48they have the discipline to actually log into that app connect their accounts to their banks see where
00:24:53things are going and take the actions on the advice that's given to them based on their actual
00:25:00financial information that's plugged in without the discipline even a tool like dollar wise that is
00:25:06incredibly useful to changing people's lives you got nothing it's like you could be tracking all of
00:25:10your calories using macro factor or something but if you're not going to change what you're eating it
00:25:13doesn't make a difference yeah it's discipline if you know people people are excited when they leave
00:25:18financial audit or they watch financial audit and even me like a diet even me like a diet if you did a
00:25:23fitness audit on me i might be excited for a couple weeks then you know if you don't have the
00:25:27discipline sometimes you fall back it's easy to have a fire under your ass for a couple weeks
00:25:31if you don't have that discipline for the long term it's difficult it really is what does debt do to
00:25:37someone's identity well unfortunately it turns a lot of people into victims that they're really not
00:25:44a lot of people have more control than they're really willing to admit what does it do to their
00:25:49identity that's interesting some people use debt to improve their identity more than anything you know
00:25:56pulling up you really care what the person next to you at the stoplight thinks about your car
00:26:01i don't know why people care about that i've never cared about that um a lot of people use
00:26:07debt to get the clothes that make them look good the jewelry that makes them look good unfortunately
00:26:11actually that quality tends to come from lower income communities anyway it's kind of crazy how that works but
00:26:17um people use that to change their identity but then people also use their identity of debt to put
00:26:24themselves in a place of victimhood and like oh i'm in debt i can't i can't do anything i may as well
00:26:29just spend the money i already have the credit card debt let me just put it on a credit card again
00:26:34what's an extra ten dollars gonna do to five thousand dollars and the answer is not much but it's
00:26:38a death of a thousand cuts they just think that over and over again yeah it's a very strange sort of
00:26:44death debt spiral where the sunk cost fallacy if this is already bad what does it matter if it's a bit
00:26:49worse yeah and also if you're stressed with finances you probably want something that makes you feel a bit
00:26:56less shitty that could be food i'm gonna sedate myself from my financial troubles by further ingraining
00:27:03myself into my financial troubles which also becomes a spiral of itself yeah that was totally me in
00:27:08college you know when i had a lot of bad debt uh car debt student loans private student loans multiple
00:27:13credit cards and family debt i absolutely went to mcdonald's swiped the chase freedom card getting
00:27:20it close to maxing out constantly and because it felt good what did it matter is basically maxed out
00:27:26anyway what's an actual maxed out credit card gonna do do you think lifestyle inflation's become a bigger
00:27:31problem than inflation itself oh bigger problem i wouldn't say oh it's a good question you're a
00:27:37professional podcast host that's nice damn um i would say inflation is worse overall i'd say worse
00:27:47overall because that impacts everyone that's not your choice right such a choice but i'd say on a
00:27:52on a personal level yeah no that's bad that's bad that's gonna that's gonna you over when someone
00:27:59gets the 20 no no one gets a 20 raise okay when someone gets a five percent raise but increases
00:28:04their spending six percent you know that that is very common on our show you know what's interesting
00:28:09people on financial audit that are doing worse are the highest income earning episodes people often
00:28:15um you know you open the show with uh getting death threats and stuff and death threats and it's kind
00:28:21of minimal but we do get lots of complaints and stuff about the show one of our biggest complaints is
00:28:25you know i'm yelling and making fun of poor people those are actually the people i usually
00:28:29make fun of and yell at the least it is the high income earners that if they just fix a couple
00:28:33things they can get out of debt pretty quickly but they also get into worse debt because they have
00:28:37a higher income so they get approved for more debt they're always the worst off they lifestyle
00:28:43inflate i swear the closer they get from 100 to 200 to even a half a million dollars a year
00:28:48the worst debt the more credit cards the more time shares the more cars the more they have it's it's
00:28:56impressive it's so bad it feels i think probably incredible to a lot of people that you could earn
00:29:03half a million a year and have a bad financial situation which i wouldn't be surprised if the
00:29:09majority in the united states didn't who make that much why you have a half million go get yourself the
00:29:16nice house go get yourself the nice car the nice clothes why not you worked hard deserve it it's in
00:29:22our culture we want we're consumers do you think that uh the things that richer people waste money
00:29:30on different to the things that poorer people waste money on absolutely i'm trying to get over my fear
00:29:36of flights and i guess i'm rich now so that's nice knock on wood with all that help you get over your fear of flights
00:29:42i rented a pj tell me so that's a waste of money easier or easier or harder so it's a control thing
00:29:49for me i don't like being stuck in a situation that i can't control do you know how to fly the pj
00:29:54no but i can say let's land i can't do that with a commercial uh well you can you could make a big
00:29:59enough fuss that you would like but it would be a real headache and bad for my career too so that would be
00:30:04a real headache yeah but like um so what was your first pause yeah what was the first time with your
00:30:14travel anxiety getting on a pj like um it was for oh the pj itself it was actually really bad when we
00:30:21filmed it too we filmed that it's on the internet i burst down in tears it's really bad i'm sorry man oh
00:30:28it was it was anxiety like it's not i don't think that you should dismiss it like that so
00:30:34but it's not like something bad happened to me right like anxieties make belief it's like it's not
00:30:38real my brain thinks it's real but it's not so i was crying i was sad but you know what was actually
00:30:44making me more sad and crying a lot of people thought it was out of pure terror it was remembering
00:30:48a lot of the things that i haven't done a lot of the family i haven't visited because of my fear of
00:30:53travel grief as much grief as it was anxiety yeah so interesting point here there's a guy called vinnie
00:30:58shawman who's a hypnotist in the uk i have a friend my friend's name is sky king sky king right this guy
00:31:06lived in hawaii while he was a kid flies all around the world loves asia been to japan a bunch of times
00:31:13out of nowhere just developed travel anxiety bad travel anxiety tried to get on a plane couldn't
00:31:19bailed out tried to get on a plane couldn't bail i think this happened maybe six eight maybe ten times
00:31:24and i put him in touch with vinnie now some people have better results with hypnotism some people have
00:31:29worse in a single session vinnie fixes travel anxiety and i don't know what the full story is
00:31:39but i know that the simpsons theme tune is an integral part of the anchoring for how he gets over
00:31:44his travel anxiety interesting and uh that was real interesting that was like it's a cool gift to give
00:31:53somebody to unlock that but i i know what you mean there is nothing wrong rationally in terms of the
00:32:01utilitarian approach view of the universe there is nothing happening but your felt experience of yeah
00:32:07i'm getting on this jet that i've paid money for that's kind of a momentous occasion for me it's this
00:32:13landmark as a person who talks about money doing something that's kind of canonical in everybody
00:32:17that has money's life and my experience of that has been tarnished by the fact that i've got this
00:32:22thing that isn't me that i don't want in me and is kind of behind the steering wheel a little bit i
00:32:27think that's i think that makes sense but it was nice because i was working with a panic therapist at
00:32:32the time and just started working with him again thank goodness because i need to get over this thing
00:32:35uh and he didn't let me get off like was he with you of course i yes so i brought him
00:32:41you brought your panic therapist on the jet it was our plan you know we kind of oh it wasn't
00:32:46like an intervention or something well actually technically i heard him the day before so we
00:32:50already decided but yeah um so we brought him with us he's really cool and i'm working with him now
00:32:54again and we have we have a game plan uh to get over it but um yeah it was scary it was it was really
00:33:00simple it was austin or san antonio so it was nothing i just i wanted to get on a plane again because
00:33:05i was just preventing myself from getting on a plane so that's a very quick flight how long had it been
00:33:08since you were on the plane the decade at least yeah so mostly road trips places but even that
00:33:14still gives me kind of anxiety um which is just i hate it um um but you know we have a game plan
00:33:21we're doing some things i want to go be on some more shows i mean dude if some people's exposure
00:33:28therapy is we just need to get a spider and put it in the corner of the room your exposure therapy
00:33:34requires a private jet exactly it's a slightly higher bar it's just as well that you're rich
00:33:40because if you won you'd be with this thing exactly exactly what really sucks is the same exact model
00:33:46private jet i was in just crashed in laredo texas yesterday and a ceo in austin texas died on it so
00:33:53that's like kind of with me that plus all of a tree there aren't many forms of air transport that are
00:34:02feeling pretty safe right yeah the next one's a commercial we're doing a commercial next we're
00:34:05doing some long road trips to kind of i would book if i was you i would try and get maybe your row
00:34:10and then one behind one in front i was thinking that just in case there's a
00:34:16you know one of those i just didn't want to be around people but yeah that's also nice that's
00:34:19also nice uh so you've got some anxious panicky tendencies yeah really just that one thing but
00:34:27you built you built a show which is essentially high stakes live confrontation right with strangers
00:34:32about their most shameful secrets yeah you're someone who has panic attacks you run a show that
00:34:37gives other people panic attacks yep is that a coincidence or is this just like the most elaborate
00:34:42exposure therapy ever it's great i mean that's what people have to go through they have to go
00:34:47through it what's actually nice is because of mine and i'm uh you know working with my guy for a while
00:34:53now like i can actually work through them pretty well and now if someone actually does have a legitimate
00:34:58panic attack on the show i can help them through which is pretty nice oh so we just pause the cameras
00:35:02and do that real quick and then this episode is brought to you by whoop according to my whoop i've
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00:36:07or heading to join.whoop.com modern wisdom that's join.whoop.com modern wisdom what is your process
00:36:16somebody is sitting opposite you you're pushing you're pushing you're pushing
00:36:20they're realizing how but you actually just explain to me what you think is happening inside of them
00:36:27inside of their mind somebody's got a lot of debt maybe they've been hiding from it like what's their
00:36:32emotion before what do they get to and then i'm interested in what you do to bring them back into
00:36:37land as well usually i can tell they kind of just go flat-faced in that moment like they they disengage
00:36:43their eyes is kind of go blank and maybe even like a little bluish um and i'm like oh okay so we just
00:36:48literally pause i'm like hey okay you know i go from the crazy voice to like just down to like hey you
00:36:54okay remember you know it's like of course they know it's like real and everything but i'm like yeah we can
00:37:00take a pause you know you can take a break and then i help them if they're like actually having
00:37:03anxiety attack i'll do like a breathing exercise real quick it's like three and six out and um that's
00:37:09pretty rare these days but uh and we definitely have people that need to do like a lap around the
00:37:13building or producer will take them or they need to go outside and hit a place that red yeah hit a
00:37:18vape that's good that's why jared i need a fucking e-pipe for the people that are listening i require i want to
00:37:26be able to come up with i want to be able to pontificate uh but i want to be able to do it
00:37:31with nicotine so if anyone can find me a pipe that looks legitimate like this but i can have some
00:37:35nicotine and that would be the other um i wonder whether part of the reason that you're not inducing
00:37:41as many panic attacks is because you're getting soft in your old age you think so yeah i wonder
00:37:46whether it's because you've taken your foot off the gas i just threw something at someone the other day
00:37:54you'd be here there's so many projectiles there's so many potential projectors some of them are heavy
00:37:58as well no honestly i am proud of it i think our our onboarding process is so thorough we've had
00:38:03people that have uh come to work with us or people that interviewed with us that have worked for like
00:38:07dr phil and a lot of other type shows dr phil's close in dallas so that's why
00:38:12him specifically but they go through our process and they're like this is crazy i've never seen an
00:38:17onboarding process process like this at all because usually for like i'm not speaking dr phil at all
00:38:21don't sue me but many shows like that daytime tv they don't give a fuck about their guests
00:38:28but we actually really care because one they're members of our audience so a little selfish there
00:38:32okay a little selfish i want members if you kill them you're going to reduce the audience size yes
00:38:36exactly and i want them to do well whether that's you know you could look at it from two perspectives
00:38:41pretend like you hate me and i'm the selfish most piece of ever fine take that obviously i want
00:38:45them to do well because it proves it in spite of me or do it because of me it shows that it works
00:38:49it shows that the show works so i don't care about how what the mechanism is it can be because you don't
00:38:54like me i'm an asshole you want to prove me wrong saying that i don't think that you're gonna be able
00:38:57to turn it around or because you love me and you think that my advice is worth listening to and you
00:39:03turn it around yeah and or there's the second option words and that's the real option that i actually
00:39:09really do care about how they succeed so i really want them to do well and the average guest pays off
00:39:14it's just over like twenty thousand dollars and twelve months of debt after coming on financial
00:39:19audit that's our most recent annual report we do one every december how much of that impact that you
00:39:25have on people's debt do you think is because of the knowledge that you give to them and how much
00:39:29do you think is because of the intensity of the emotional discomfort that you put them through
00:39:33yeah it's a mixture of both there is the that tough love crazy and fun approach of it like i think
00:39:41oftentimes 90 of the time they're having a good time too like they know the craziness of the show
00:39:46so but they have fun and uh that's not for everyone but i'll don't come on the show if it's not for you
00:39:51so it's like a show i would actually personally go on when i was in debt it would have worked for me
00:39:55someone's screaming at me that works for me it worked for me when i played sports you know it's
00:39:59whatever it works for me um and then we set them up with lots of tools afterwards they get dollar wise
00:40:05for free forever no matter what they get all of our personal finance courses they get a certification
00:40:12through course careers to help with their jobs they get access any kind of resource that we're working
00:40:16with third party they get access to so we try to give them everything and then we check in with them
00:40:21i don't remember the exact dates but it's like the day their episode goes live a week after that
00:40:25a month after that and then three months after that and we do two updates a week with former guests
00:40:30on our in our hammer elite membership um and we're endlessly checking in with them with surveys and
00:40:36we tell them to reach out anytime they want so there's the mixture of the show and that lights
00:40:41a fire under their ass and the post filming support is post-coital care process yeah uh i did love island
00:40:4911 years ago and uh famously the uk series i don't know whether it's happened in america yet but the uk
00:40:57series of love island has killed more people than any other tv show like two past stars took their own
00:41:03lives one of whom was a really good friend of mine that's crazy then the host took her own life
00:41:10caroline going on caroline flack yeah i just i'd once uh that's strange twice you're like three times
00:41:19including the host you're like there's a pattern here uh but one of the issues and this was something
00:41:23that i saw especially i think love island broke the app store when it came out it was the number one
00:41:27app in the world above chat gpt above claude uh and like there was shutdowns on servers and
00:41:33shit like 300 000 concurrent downloads at a moment like downloading the app to watch the i don't know
00:41:38what i don't know what you do voting on it or something maybe and um the post-show care routine
00:41:44things i did the first i was the first person through the doors of the first ever episode wow right
00:41:49of the first season so they were we were the the guinea pig we were the first child where you make
00:41:57all of the mistakes you drink when you're pregnant you smoke in like you forget to feed it for 12
00:42:01hours like all of that stuff and um once you finish up you should have a support system as you get
00:42:08thrust back out into the world now the first season that i did was like way smaller it was 10 times
00:42:13smaller than season two which was 10 times smaller than season three which it really sort of took off
00:42:18on that exponential but had it have been even a bit more exposed there was the least amount of post-show
00:42:25support uh even though it was that much smaller the post-show support was basically non-existent and
00:42:31then each time that one of those incidents occurred you could tell that uh itv which is the the company
00:42:37in the uk that was but it's channel three in the uk right they have channel three and channel seven
00:42:42and um every single time that one of these horrible horrible situations happened everybody got an email
00:42:49just reminding you that you have access to the safety and care team whenever i'm like dude
00:42:54fucking too late man you know like something about the horse bolting and the door being closed but
00:43:00we also probably didn't get the opportunity when walking out of the island to be like hey if i do
00:43:05this make sure it's not in the episode so it's like you you were like no matter what exactly you do not
00:43:11control the edit and the entire universe is watching you and commenting on you and then what's mad is you
00:43:16come out because it's recorded and published live but you only enter back into the world once it's happened
00:43:24you have no idea what's made the edit you have no idea what people think of you you could come out
00:43:27and be the hero or the most hated person yes in your country it's crazy yeah should i get into that
00:43:35everyone's doing that everyone's doing these pouches uh like would i be like so locked in
00:43:41dude no that's scary i'm asking for advice first before i go full those are mine so those ones are
00:43:47that's just caffeine that's just 50 50 milligrams of caffeine these these are very healthy for you
00:43:54better for you nicotine those are knick-knacks so that's like everyone in the world is doing pouches
00:43:59right now like how locked in would i be i have a bit of an oral fixation which i'm sure that the uh
00:44:05people that think i'm gay on the internet are going to love to hear me say um have we got any
00:44:09toothpicks jb can you get if you're outside jonathan can you bring some toothpicks in from the
00:44:14cupboard please i want to show those just something to dick about with while you're working i think is
00:44:19very important okay you've got a pen or whatever sometimes you try i could get the pipe yeah bite
00:44:23my fingernails that's my thing that'll do you um what what income level do people's financial problems
00:44:31fundamentally change where is it it's behavior it's fully behavior again like i said um the worst
00:44:37situations i've seen in the entire show are high income earners absolutely horrible so i i'd say
00:44:44never it gives you more opportunity to get out of a bad situation but i wouldn't say the income levels
00:44:50everyone thinks when they make the next ten thousand dollars in their income their entire life's going
00:44:55to change their spending changes but if their behavior is the same if their inclinations are the
00:45:00same their lack of discipline is the same they're actually just going to be in a worse situation so
00:45:04i would actually argue that if behavior doesn't change at the more income level your situation might
00:45:10actually get worse because you now are playing with bigger chips on the table yeah and if you're
00:45:15fucking it up you've got more access i didn't never thought about that such a good point that you've
00:45:19got more access to credit people think uh banks credit cards think that you are a safer bet
00:45:26because of that you can yourself harder yeah and i guess i'll put an asterisk on my statement there is
00:45:31like you gotta hit a base basic minimum level right like if you can't pay for like the cheapest rent
00:45:36in the area put food on the table utilities then obviously anyone that's not making up to that point
00:45:42yeah that's a threshold where it's like game changer because you're just like surviving but if you can't
00:45:47even hit the survival like that's not even in the conversation but typically we don't really allow for that
00:45:52that much in this country in western society and you'll see it but you know we have lots of uh
00:45:59child support services for low income uh food support um housing support it's not perfect no one's gonna
00:46:06argue it's perfect but we do have a lot of a lot of social programs to help those people that are in
00:46:10those lower uh friend of the show ice coffee our boys had kevin o'leary on yeah he gave some
00:46:17insight about where he thinks different levels of income impact your lifestyle i'll pull that up for
00:46:23me jared look at this what would you say are the main four tiers of wealth where if you hit a certain
00:46:30amount life will i tell everybody this you should strive very hard if you're an entrepreneur to have
00:46:36five million dollars in t-bills not in anything else just t-bills making 3.82 percent this morning
00:46:45you know you've made it and you've safeguarded your family for the rest of your life if you can get
00:46:48five million dollars liquid in t-bills most people that consider themselves very successful
00:46:55entrepreneurs do not have five million dollars liquid in t-bills they don't but what net worth should you
00:47:01be at to to justify five million in t-bills well you should be the first thing you should do is get to
00:47:06five million liquid be worth five million dollars liquid that's far more valuable than anything else
00:47:13liquidity with wealth is actually a superpower most people say i'm very wealthy but they couldn't raise
00:47:19a million dollars by two o'clock in the afternoon if they tried it's tied up in all kinds of things they
00:47:23think are worth a lot until the hits the fan the plan is if you're an entrepreneur the hardest thing is
00:47:29to make the first million really hard and when you make the first million put it in t-bills just as
00:47:35hard but not as hard is to get to two million two to three is actually quite easy because you figured
00:47:42something out but where you get undisciplined is you start buying you don't need
00:47:48because your man is get to five million liquid i you have to have five million liquid to call yourself a
00:47:54successful entrepreneur and i don't care who who disagrees with me they're wrong i guess i'll be
00:47:59wrong i mean no i i agree one of one of the first goals i had was to get to five million as quick as i
00:48:05could and and but invested in the stock market i don't really understand get your first million put it in
00:48:11low indexing uh t-bills t-bill like treasury right so i'm not really understanding like putting it in bonds or
00:48:20something it just makes sense if if you make your first million in your young let it grow in the
00:48:24marketplace at an average of eight to ten percent that makes more sense i mean i guess if you're
00:48:28approaching like 60 and you make your first million off of a business being successful yeah put it in
00:48:32something more conservative but if you have time on your side unless america collapses like the
00:48:37stock market's going to do over a long enough time horizon you'll weather any of the little wobbles
00:48:41yeah exactly so um but i do agree with that five million mark because that five million mark if
00:48:46you do the four percent rules four percent of five million i think what is that sixty thousand dollars
00:48:50a year something like that so you live a good middle class income off of that using the four percent
00:48:55rule so that works so that was one of my first big goals it's i don't like the idea of taking the
00:49:03first million you make and then literally just not letting it grow past inflation that doesn't make any
00:49:07sense if if you're getting your first million you should let it work have it work for you in the
00:49:12stock market i'm not saying reinvest it immediately into the business and certainly he's correct where
00:49:16people start getting money and they start blowing it he's a hundred percent correct on that this is
00:49:21weird to take the first million put it into something low index especially if you're young
00:49:25is there a financial milestone that creates the most happiness for people um yeah a lot of the
00:49:31happiness that can be achieved through wealth like you can't buy friends you can't buy family
00:49:35so a lot of the happiness that can actually be achieved through wealth i'd say if you can cover
00:49:43if you can weather practically any emergency including like a cancer diagnosis something really
00:49:48bad if you can how much money is that uh i mean honestly i think that five million is a good marker
00:49:56that five million is a good marker you can really start pulling into it for you know a few years if it's
00:50:00like really aggressive really bad you want to go to the best in the world um so with that you know
00:50:06you can weather anything and you can even if you blow through the five hopefully you make it to the
00:50:10other side and you can start bouncing back but that gives you unlimited flexibility you don't get to
00:50:14do the crazy things that are super fun you don't get to do the you can't buy a pj i can't buy a pj and i
00:50:21can rent a short little trip but um i don't think that's what drives happiness it's a fun thing moment
00:50:26of happiness but i think the true happiness that you actually can buy is security and five million
00:50:32is a really good number to get it sounds like a massive number for people to feel financially secure
00:50:37yeah but you know you can weather literally practically anything that's the question like
00:50:42you can weather almost everything uh with a few hundred thousand hours set aside you can you know
00:50:47take a while to find a new job if you have a few hundred thousand but i'm saying if i'm really
00:50:51thinking like you can weather anything five million is a great number to have yeah i i totally didn't
00:50:58think about the fact that you can afford to invest in specifically the s p there's any kind of tracker
00:51:06if you're younger because there's going to be some movements there's going to be periods of
00:51:10downturn but over a long enough time horizon and i mean if the s p goes to zero there's much bigger
00:51:15problems than what you're doing with your money yeah we'll be killing each other yeah yeah yeah
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00:52:05by going to the link in the description below or heading to drink lmnt.com modern wisdom that's
00:52:10drink lmnt.com slash modern wisdom how much shame surrounds debt and do you think that shame hurts
00:52:19people or helps people change i think it's pretty damaging that in our culture talking about money is
00:52:25shameful in general uh and in debt i mean i think it's good to have a good laugh on a tick tock short
00:52:30things like that that's fine but i think if we have a whole system where people feel shameful to even
00:52:37bring up their close friends their family or even their therapist that they're in a bad financial
00:52:40situation they're not going to get that emotional support they're not going to get that encouragement
00:52:45that they actually need to change because they'll just be weathering it themselves that's a very
00:52:49difficult thing you don't want to again going back to even just the cancer thing you don't want
00:52:53to be going through that yourself it's almost impossible you need support anything you go
00:52:57through any kind of support system is good and if we have a massive level of shame around it which
00:53:01i would say in our country in our society we definitely have people aren't even willing to
00:53:07say what they make yep you know they're like embarrassed or they're afraid of making it too
00:53:11much and people look down on them for like you'll be jealous you know so there's a lot of shame
00:53:16around personal finances in our society and i think that's pretty damaging it's interesting as a
00:53:21british person we have shame but in the opposite direction we have shame about talking about how much we make
00:53:26if we make if we make a good wage everyone's poor there because there is such a strong tall poppy
00:53:32syndrome that if you're seen to be too big for your boots or doing too well that can often cause
00:53:39way more ire it's like an interesting i understand why people would feel personal shame around talking
00:53:45about being in a bad position financially what does this say about me as a human what does this say
00:53:49about my habits maybe people are going to think less of me but there is a like a pro social
00:53:56fuck that person's down bad hey man like i really want to help you as opposed to dude i just got this
00:54:02new job and i got a i got a 30 pay increase i can't believe that i've been working so hard for this for
00:54:07a long time if that's not someone that's got your best interests at heart that triggers in them not
00:54:12not pity which is not an emotion that people want to feel but it induces envy which is way more active
00:54:21you know that's the sort of thing that can get you ostracized from a friend group and again this isn't
00:54:25everybody i've got amazing friends in the uk but i met a million people running nightclubs i was a
00:54:31had one of the biggest events companies in the uk for a long time a million people right in person with a
00:54:37tight pair of jeans on holding a clipboard giving out wristbands and free champagne
00:54:41i had a handful of close friends that i could talk to openly about everything that was going
00:54:46on successes failures all the rest of it that's good that's not a great friend exposure to conversion
00:54:53funnel right a million people handful of friends oh yeah and that's why at least we had them though
00:55:01you know that's no a lot of people don't that's true yeah and as an only child that was like
00:55:06fuck like i've got some people that have got me and that's cool uh just i the uk is a very
00:55:12inhospitable environment for people that are trying to uh do things financially i've got this line i
00:55:19wonder whether you agree with it uh the uk is a great country to be poor in and a terrible country
00:55:25to be rich in and america is a terrible country to be poor in and a great country to be rich in
00:55:30yeah i mean a lot of poor people move to and stay in the uk a lot of wealthy people leave i'd say the
00:55:35analytics just follow that in general bingo nailed it dude forget the pithy maxims i just dialed the
00:55:41entire financial industry um i there's there's a safety net in the uk which moving to america to
00:55:48me feels like quite brutal uh quite like why leave the council of state it's comfy it is national health
00:55:59service i've got this stat britain spends more on working age welfare every year than it collects in
00:56:08income tax yeah working age welfare and the difference gets borrowed every single year yeah that's insane
00:56:15and all the productive people that would actually contribute to the tax base are leaving the the
00:56:19wealth drain the brain drain in the united kingdom is i feel bad for your country that's honestly it's
00:56:25a place where i mean the majority of my life i wouldn't have considered moving there but there's
00:56:29a part where i was like oh this would be the best place to go living because you get the cool walkability
00:56:34of europe and like the nice you know okay winter and nice language and it's your language exactly so i
00:56:41wanted to kind of go there for a bit it's gone i don't i if the uk comes back it'll be the biggest
00:56:47comeback story in the history of civilization but yeah we're like nine zero down at the moment yeah
00:56:54game of football uh there are you know i mean there is the conversation where it's like yeah gdp per
00:56:58capita there'd be 51st state did you see that yep yeah i got a lot of for putting that well i mean that's
00:57:05true but there also i got a lot of from americans well americans are retarded i don't know americans
00:57:11are rich and retarded but there are some other true things the uk when it comes to safety and a lot
00:57:16of things you know it ranks higher so there's not just like it's not all right yeah it's not all
00:57:22shit but like no it is true i mean unfortunately it's going the same direction as spain or southern
00:57:28italy one of those places where it's people go there or are born there get educated there and then
00:57:35leave to somewhere where they can make double the income and why wouldn't they we're such a mobile
00:57:39world dude if you're inhospitable and this is the thing that i understand some of my lefty leaning
00:57:46friends jimmy the giant is one of them and he thinks that taxing the rich he means like the ultra rich he
00:57:55means like 100 millions plus of liquid or whatever of held asset wealth um but that that is something
00:58:02that's justified that's something that would help to raise up the the underclass and and people that
00:58:08are unemployed and need that but i think the bottom 55 percent of the population in both the uk and the
00:58:16us are net withdrawers from benefits as opposed to net contributors yeah like just that statistic
00:58:23income tax in the united states the bottom 50 percent of earners contribute one percent
00:58:2850 contribute one percent like that's crazy we're a very uh progressive income tax society in the united
00:58:35states united states is actually the most progressive western major country for income tax what we don't
00:58:40have is vat tax which usually funds like the national health service and whatnot so and americans americans
00:58:45that's the fun thing about americans including um especially populist americans either left or right
00:58:52we want the scandinavian social programs but we want to do it on like a florida tax system americans are
00:58:59not willing to pay the actual taxes required for the systems and it's never about the wealthy people
00:59:03paying a lot of taxes because that doesn't fund at all um it's it's all about the the flat tax the vat
00:59:09tax the national sales tax where everyone has to pay an extra one two three four five percent or
00:59:14whatever it is on everything they purchase that's what funds those social programs in the united states
00:59:19would never tolerate it at a national level have you ever seen what a set of accounts for a normal
00:59:23limited company that has to that's within the vat threshold so i think it's 120 000 a year 120 that
00:59:29fuck that was very unanglicized 120 000 pounds a year or above that your limited company makes and
00:59:35after that point you're that right you're registered for that have you ever seen one of the accounts
00:59:41submissions dude it is a as somebody that had a limited company for a decade and a half in the uk i
00:59:47still do my rental properties go through that although they don't breach the threshold so it doesn't matter
00:59:52it is a nightmare each individual transaction you charge the person who is getting the service from
01:00:00you an additional 20 percent that's what that is 20 and then you claim back that vat up to an amount
01:00:08from the government so it's this ouroboros this endless financially uh bureaucratically in terms of
01:00:17paperwork it's this huge overhead and i understand what that is for i understand that we have lots of
01:00:23services that you don't have in america they need to be funded somehow national insurance that's another
01:00:28type of of uh tax that's not seen in america but if you do the math after everything that you get free
01:00:35in the united kingdom if you after people pay for it and the median income here after the median taxes
01:00:41here after the median paying for the private services here we still end up with more money in our pocket
01:00:46in the end no way yeah it's it's pretty close but it's still even with the health care is one of the
01:00:52biggest costs even though uh health care is the single most common reason that people go bankrupt in
01:00:58america as well i think yeah which isn't surprising and honestly people make it sound more consequential
01:01:03than it is so as we talked about earlier bankruptcy is actually not that even big of a deal really it's
01:01:07really not it's it's overblown i mean it's not great i don't just like go get bankrupt like that's not
01:01:11wonderful but it's like people make it sound like the scariest thing in the world when it's really not
01:01:15but um i mean uh i looked into that two years ago maybe the numbers have changed today but two years
01:01:21ago that's what it looked like and we still have like out of a major nation yes you're gonna have
01:01:24microstates where it's like what's switzerland you know much smaller obviously their gdp per cap and
01:01:30everything is going to be a lot higher in those kind of places or like monaco something like that
01:01:35but as far as like a major nation large nation the united states like destroys when it comes to
01:01:40disposable income the income you have after all the important stuff after you get taxed and everything
01:01:44we just lead because we just encourage our system just encourages that but what's interesting when
01:01:51talking about the united kingdom and you talked about uh your more left-wing friends that like want to
01:01:56raise taxes and stuff there what's also interesting on the left-right spectrum is during the great
01:02:03recession that 2008 2009 2007 um the united kingdom went more conservative where the united states went
01:02:11more liberal with their spending we pumped a lot of money into the economy the united kingdom uh i had
01:02:17it in my austerity they went austerity started uh and you can see what the outcomes were we went into debt for
01:02:23it as a nation but we recovered in a couple years the united kingdom's gdp just recovered from 2007 i
01:02:29believe like a year and a half ago no way two years ago yeah so the their more conservative approach of
01:02:34spending uh raising taxes cutting spending there in the recession it failed it objectively failed across
01:02:40europe and the united states you know donald trump covet pumped a lot of money into the economy we're very
01:02:46liberal with our spending yeah we chucked the money in so it's it's you know we we're pretty progressive
01:02:53i mean 50 of our federal spending yes it's mandatory spending it's not you know whatever
01:02:56it's still social spending so left versus right it's not it's not always you know one side's gonna
01:03:03always be in the right because the more right wing running of their federal budget in the united kingdom
01:03:09failed when it came to the great recession it just it destroyed it destroyed the economy destroyed
01:03:15productivity destroyed spending well even that now has kind of become quite squirrely because when you
01:03:20talk about conservative spending a lot of the time that's more pro-capitalist they're more prepared now to
01:03:25turn the money printer over so it's the like existing archetypes of what it even means to be left and
01:03:30right pick any pick stuff about which races you do or don't like which cultures you do or don't like
01:03:35which religions you do or don't want inside of your country like everything that you the whole
01:03:40like tectonic plate underneath what used to be stereotypes and cliches that's all moved oh
01:03:46completely i mean you do see it in race it was the more uh 90s liberal which i'm poor probably more
01:03:52aligned with on this uh perspective of we wanted to color blind society you know and it was the more
01:03:58right-wing people that were like well no we see you know they're different than us you know that kind of
01:04:03stuff like i don't know about the 90s at that point but even still that was the more 90s liberal
01:04:06perspective now it's the more centrist even right-wing position colorblind society and people
01:04:12on the far left are like no we need black dorms we need black graduations we see race first no matter
01:04:17what um and it's it's very interesting how that shifted and i don't think with bad intention to be
01:04:23clear i don't think they're evil for that but i do think it's um sometimes when people get to the
01:04:28extremists they horseshoe around correct yeah it far left and far right end up looking a lot closer than
01:04:34you'd think yeah that just going back to the bottom 50 percent contribute one percent of the taxes but
01:04:41then when you net it down in terms of what's given all different types of aid and assistance i think it's
01:04:48up to the bottom 55 percent and net detractors yeah it doesn't from the economy and with we have systems
01:04:55made for that the child tax credit is made for that it is usually lower income people that have
01:04:59more kids this is how it is and lower income people pay less taxes but they get the same
01:05:04child tax credit so this is more money is going to go to them in the end do you think that would
01:05:08surprise most people to find out that the bottom 55 percent of the population are net detractors
01:05:14from the benefit system as opposed to net contributors oh of course absolutely listen i can
01:05:18i every time i take a political compass test i find myself on a centrist you know slightly leaning
01:05:22right economically and then decently left socially but i had like an extreme socialist on my show the
01:05:26other day episode's not out yet and i was talking to her and i was like how much is the top one percent
01:05:31paying taxes she says nothing they pay zero percent i'm like no it's like 30 of all income taxes
01:05:36top 10 pays like uh 50 top 50 pays 99 it blew her mind she has no idea because we're in such
01:05:45misinformation algorithmically defined places on the internet there was a study done
01:05:52by some elite university um on the east coast where they were researchers were going into tiktok and
01:06:00engaging with left-wing content and then a different one would do right-wing content and tiktok immediately
01:06:05found out in about three minutes whether you wanted if you're anti-men or pro-left or anti-woman or pro-right
01:06:13and they would just put you into that camp where all of a sudden all the information you got all the
01:06:17content you watch was the extreme version of that and that's all you were getting because you show you
01:06:22engage with that and if you engage with that they want to give you more so you stay on their platform
01:06:25it makes sense from their business perspective so it's not surprising at all that people wouldn't
01:06:30be aware of that information if it goes against their worldview i've learned from over a thousand
01:06:35podcast episodes that the easier you make your health routine the more consistent you'll be it's like golf
01:06:40right you want to keep it simple and not mix a bunch of pills you want the eye of the tiger
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01:07:32below heading to drink ag1.com slash modern wisdom i don't know man i don't know what financial education
01:07:39what good financial education looks like because the incentives aren't necessarily aligned for somebody
01:07:45who feels like they're really struggling who's comparing where they are financially to where they
01:07:50think their parents were at their age where they think everybody else is at their age what they think
01:07:55that they should have so past generations other people and my idealized version of where i want to
01:08:01be all of that bundled together you saying well actually the top one percent of earners they contribute
01:08:07thirty percent of the taxes and the bottom fifty percent they're actually net detractors from the
01:08:11the system of the that doesn't make me feel any better like it's not a comfort to me to take a
01:08:19macro perspective when my micro experience sucks yeah i mean that's that's why financial audits about the
01:08:26perspective of the individual and their responsibilities and what they can change because you know some
01:08:31people comment why aren't you talking about the systems that them in the first place and i'm like
01:08:35that's not what this show can change you can go vote congratulations you contributed to
01:08:39changing the system that you want to do but the reality is on that show only one person can change
01:08:48what's happening in that person's life immediately and that's that individual so you're right talking
01:08:52about the system it doesn't help anyone on that personal level it's the actual choices there and there
01:08:58is good news the united states is actually taking um a pretty important step towards it we're close to 40
01:09:04states that now require a personal financial education course to graduate high school it's close to
01:09:0940 states it wasn't even half of america just a couple years ago so have you had a look at the
01:09:13syllabus what do you think of the syllabus i haven't looked at it but i mean the governor of michigan
01:09:17came on the show and you know she wanted to talk about it and you know uh she's democrat she's
01:09:22probably going to run for president and i was very impressed with how much she actually cared
01:09:26about making sure people needed to learn about basic personal finances before graduating high school
01:09:32i think that's important and i'm glad to see that we're doing that as a country now i don't know
01:09:38about you i don't know what the grade system is like out there in the united kingdom but i was a
01:09:44fucking retard who didn't give a shit about school i would have done whatever the minimum thing required
01:09:50to pass that school and i wouldn't or that class and i wouldn't have learned anything if i was in
01:09:53school i'm like i don't know i other than the things i was actually interested in which is mostly history
01:09:59classes and music classes at that time i did the basic bare minimum to pass and i wouldn't have
01:10:05learned anything so there is that consequence but at least we're trying if you were to put together
01:10:09a syllabus of principles financially to teach young people what would be the biggest ones it would
01:10:14start with budgeting because if you can't budget there's nothing else so um budgetings that you know
01:10:19we talked about the discipline personal responsibility that's a little harder to teach in school but at
01:10:23least learning how to budget a household uh starting with something like the 50 30 20 method which is
01:10:2850 on needs 30 on wants 20 on investing smallest categories investing you get to spend 30 of your money on
01:10:36bullshit obviously that changes in places like new york la san francisco but that's a good place to
01:10:41start from so teach that concept teach what is a good car loan to get i enjoy the money guy rule you put
01:10:4820 down no longer than a three-year term and no more than eight percent of your income is the monthly payment
01:10:54that equals a car you can afford actually teach the value of college and a degree instead of saying
01:10:59everyone needs to go to college and borrow as much as it takes to get whatever degree you want at any institution
01:11:03you want instead teach okay a good general rule is don't get a degree of which you borrow more for
01:11:13then you'll get in your expected first year's salary so that's a good oh that's nice yeah it's a it's a
01:11:18good rule to just not borrow more than you need what's i don't know how america stacks up in terms of
01:11:25different courses at different universities can you give me some examples of low medium and and high and
01:11:30what would be expected because i there's no way i've seen some of the student debt bills oh yeah that's
01:11:35bad there's no way that somebody's gonna some people wouldn't even earn that back in five years of
01:11:39being of course if they had zero costs and all of the money went back to their student loan yeah
01:11:43absolutely i mean so strictly thinking college let's get rid of trades or anything like that
01:11:49community college you can go there for two years you can get your basics out of the way
01:11:52in fact a lot of community college you can get your four-year degree now at like nursing and whatnot
01:11:57austin community college here you can go for like a thousand bucks a semester two thousand bucks a
01:12:01semester super affordable super cheap many people can work their way through it and that's in austin
01:12:05and it's it's similar in other areas uh from there you want to transfer if you're going to transfer to an
01:12:12institution uh more affordable just standard maybe directional school like western texas you know
01:12:18something like that i went to western michigan um university where it's a little more affordable
01:12:22and you complete your final two years there and you take federal student loans for that
01:12:27uh and the big question from well okay to finish your question so the for that more directional
01:12:34school finish your four years but beyond that then you're talking like you're going out of
01:12:38state at a four-year institution skipping community college out of states like double the cost
01:12:43then you can go beyond that then we're talking private institution you actually go beyond that and
01:12:48think uh uh international which is why people really care about rankings in the united states
01:12:54because that gets international students they care about rankings and they'll pay an extra premium
01:12:58to go to schools in the united states so that's why they really care um but i try to stay down here
01:13:03try to stay in that community college for the first two years and then transfer to the in-state
01:13:07institution federal student loans subsidized or unsubsidized at least you have the protections
01:13:11with federal student loans really try not to go private the only reason you'd be going private
01:13:16is because your family already makes a decent amount of money um so that that's how i would approach
01:13:21it and then is degree selection that's the important one you have to look at the fields you're going into
01:13:26a lot of the um unfortunately there is a big gender division and this isn't anti-women i don't
01:13:32want to be on that weird anti-women shit but there is an actual reality that women are getting
01:13:37lower return on investment degrees in the united states tend to get more things like
01:13:41social services psychology sociology things like that that don't return where men tend to really
01:13:47think about the income post i don't know if it's ingrained societally or culture or they to be the
01:13:53provider or whatever but for whatever reason they tend to go you know more engineer uh things like
01:13:58that and women you know more teachers so uh that's really important to think about the degree and the
01:14:02return on investment and now honestly a thing to probably consider is how how ai resistant your career
01:14:08field is going to be who knows where that's going to go i think unfortunately women are going to be
01:14:11hit hardest by that so there is uh it's referred to as the lanyard class okay people that wear lanyards
01:14:17to work it's middle management it's marketing it's hr and that is a big chunk that sort of white collar
01:14:25lanyard people that is going to be a big chunk of what ai comes for first supposedly uh and that is
01:14:32going to i i tweeted this and i got people got very mad at me about it that you're looking at your
01:14:37responses to tweets who cares if people are getting mad i go on that once every two days and i see what
01:14:43furor has occurred within the last 48 hours look they don't matter i post and ghost but it's just
01:14:48interesting to see what the sentiment is sure how close to a third rail or beyond the overton window is
01:14:54this thing that's not real life so it's just so hard to take an account what is said very true like
01:14:59this last election in midterms i swear it all went opposite of what you saw on twitter like you're
01:15:03gonna think all these like out uh outsiders were gonna win because they're so big on twitter it was
01:15:10nothing it was nothing yeah don't look at your response the sexy campaign on social media is not
01:15:14middle america who are voting and actually have the time and the uh preparedness to be able to go out and
01:15:19have registered and are ready to go um anyway i said uh uh we've just got ourselves now we've overshot it
01:15:29a little bit i think women out on men up to the age of now about 32 33 that's about 1111 pounds more
01:15:37to 29 i don't know what it is after that and only then does it but that has grown it was up to 29 now
01:15:43it's up to 32 33 i think for women out earning men uh given that you've just about reached young people
01:15:51gender parity between men and women in terms of earning you are now about to see that what probably
01:15:58to women feels like we finally arrived economically okay majority of degrees yep two women for every one
01:16:07man completing a four-year u.s college degree by 2030 etc etc master's degrees even more correct uh phd
01:16:13also more but not more more uh that situation of parities may be going to be at risk and i think a
01:16:23lot of fingers are going to be pointed that um we just arrived and now robots built by men
01:16:32have just taken our opportunity that is still so fucking green that we haven't settled into it away
01:16:38from us that i think is going to be one of the biggest stories of the next decade i mean there's going
01:16:42to be many but one of the ones that people are going to feel the most is more war between the sexes oh
01:16:48yes the gender wars are so extreme yeah the political division right now in the most recent uh federal
01:16:54election the gender divide in the generation z is further than any other generation in american history
01:17:02it's it's it's it's scary i'm actually scared and it's impacting more things than this is that
01:17:07uh it's impacting reproduction numbers which impacts the overall economy it impacts retirees the retiree
01:17:13to worker ratio if people aren't fucking and people aren't fucking people hate each other now they
01:17:18have um you're swiping based on political affiliation on the dating apps you know uh so it is very scary
01:17:25and it's sad to see and unfortunately again it is usually like the white women that are calling me
01:17:29fascists online uh for personal responsibility finances okay you're in very good company with
01:17:34regards to that yet yeah but it's like yeah it's a it's really weird because i really just want the
01:17:40best and we're talking about statistics or anything isn't sexist it's not right now you know i didn't
01:17:48even say it earlier because it shouldn't be about the sexes but when we talked about people struggling
01:17:52post-college degrees and not get a job it's actually not women they're they're getting uh jobs at the same rate
01:17:59as new degree holders as traditional it's men that are falling off the cliff but i didn't want to focus
01:18:03on that because this shouldn't be a big gender war but the gender wars among gen z right now is insane
01:18:09and we're going to have massive consequences down the road just as we've seen in south korea
01:18:13and japan and i'm terrified for that as a hopeful future retiree yeah uh this was from my newsletter
01:18:20this week asian women now earn more on average than white men in the us a finding that adds a wrinkle
01:18:27to common narratives about patriarchy and white supremacy asian women are winning yeah yeah sure
01:18:32of course and like i understand there's the history right so you got to put
01:18:37many people feel burdened by history i get it victimhood's easier to have than you know saying
01:18:43like all right we're doing okay now um i think i think it's it's very there's two there's two sides
01:18:49on that more uh i guess if you have to put it in a camp right-wing perspective is like you know oh
01:18:55everything's good now so you know we don't even need to think about what came before right it's like
01:18:59okay but there is an actual history and then on the left wing side that's just as bad is like they
01:19:03don't even recognize that there has been progress it's all victimhood it's all bad women are oppressed
01:19:08all this stuff it makes no sense have to acknowledge the realities of history and you have to also
01:19:13recognize when we're trying to change society that we actually have changed society and people are doing
01:19:17better than before the thing that's kind of an unseen cost of always looking with a historical
01:19:26context that forgets the present is that it actually denies people who are in a good situation from
01:19:32ever feeling like they're in a good situation yeah absolutely go hey hey you fucking arrived i get it
01:19:39burdens from the past uh things that need to be remembered so we don't fall back that the main fear is
01:19:44if we if we don't keep talking about it maybe we'll go back there right sure that keep a weather eye on
01:19:50that make sure that that's happening but if you make progress in the present always neutered by what
01:19:57where it came from in the past you never actually give people the gift of feeling
01:20:02the opportunity for celebration couldn't agree more but you're evil for saying that so i'm aware it's
01:20:07fine i've been called a lot uh people aren't fucking caleb hammer like that's the i did i did a
01:20:14four hour debate about the birth rate decline uh i could have just who uh it was uh stephen j
01:20:20shaw who did the birth gap documentary uh simone collins who they say people are
01:20:24fucking because they're not no no it was a demographer a pronatalist and a statistician uh it was broadly
01:20:33broadly in agreement although the reasons were what was being it was kind of i've been deep down this
01:20:38rabbit hole for a while um which if anyone knew the actual reasons we would be able to fix it right
01:20:43and every country has tried to throw a lot of money at it and it's it worked in hungary for a year and
01:20:48then it fell back so correct there's there is a number so lyman stone would be an interesting one
01:20:52for you to talk to from a like economic implication he's like institute for family studies which you may
01:20:57have referenced at some point he's the man when it comes to these like tip of the fucking spear
01:21:01um there is a number that you can pay people to fix the birth rate and it's not that much but
01:21:07it's loads compared with what we spend it's like 10 of gdp it's a lot i mean it might be required at
01:21:13some point right because that's like collapse of human civilization at some point i don't think you
01:21:17know luckily the united states were like generally pro-immigration people want to move here so we'll be
01:21:22fine but places like uh south korea are done yeah for every hundred south koreans will be four great
01:21:28grandchildren yeah 96 gone within a century that's insane so have you looked at um the economic
01:21:35implications sort of macroeconomic implications of a declining population yeah i mean i'm more focused
01:21:41on the retirement when we were um these numbers i'm gonna have to be a little fuzzy on because it's
01:21:47hard to remember exactly but when we first started a social program called social security that has good
01:21:52intent not an evil program mismanaged not smart in the end you know we had like a worker to retiree ratio
01:21:58of like 100 to one uh what are we at now we're like uh it's close to like 10 to one or something you
01:22:04could have these numbers um but the the closer and closer we get the more burden it is on the individual
01:22:09and if you have social systems that are solely reliant on a growing population growing tax base it doesn't
01:22:16work they fail so all the social programs are starting to fail you're seeing them starting to
01:22:20buckle social security is going to have a mandatory 25 cut in 2032 is what's projected why so when there
01:22:29were more workers we were contributing more money than was going out so that money was starting to build
01:22:34because old people don't work but they do need caring for yeah which makes sense and that social
01:22:40security uh fund was starting to build but where was it like around early 2000s or something we started
01:22:47to take more out of it than was going in as the baby boomers started to retire and also there's just
01:22:51less people replacing them and by 2032 unless the retirement age changes unless the cap on social
01:22:57security tax changes unless we reduced the cap on social security would be brought down or or we also
01:23:04cut benefits to those who are already high incoming you know all controversial for different reasons
01:23:09whatever that's not the point but unless something changes the fund goes to zero and then the only
01:23:13money that goes out is the money coming in and that's projected to be a 25-ish percent cut by 2032
01:23:19fuck me that's going to be unpopular oh it's good whoever's president's going to get killed i mean
01:23:24it's going to be bad we'll probably just honestly the property right of law will borrow the difference
01:23:27and our debt will just go even further probably what's going to happen the last time we made a
01:23:31compromise was during the reagan administration if i'm not mistaken where they barely wage raised the
01:23:36retirement you have to remember the average lifespan what is it now 65 yeah right around there and we
01:23:41raised like two years the average lifespan for when we started social security was like if you
01:23:47actually make social security you're going to live for another two or three years now you're going to
01:23:51live a couple decades so it just doesn't it doesn't make sense anymore it even though it's super
01:23:56unpopular among the highest voting base the boomers social security retirement age for what it was actually
01:24:01intended to when fdr signed it into law should have been raised almost like 70 by now which sounds evil
01:24:09yeah does anybody like the idea of working and working and working this is i've still not been
01:24:15able to thread this needle properly i've done four hour fucking discussion with the best on the planet
01:24:20as far as i could find to talk about this stuff endless episodes with steve and i've had limon on
01:24:24before i've had simone's husband on people that are skeptical critical all this stuff i'm like dude
01:24:29like if you care about the quality of life of people more people are going to be old in the future
01:24:34than ever before we're going to have more old people than ever before and where do you think the
01:24:38money to support them comes from like do you want grandma and nobody i've said this gazillion times
01:24:44nobody should have kids that doesn't want to have kids nobody should have kids that doesn't want
01:24:48to have kids there is a more extreme position than that which is it's your duty to have kids to
01:24:52feed the economic engine i don't subscribe to that view but like just the fact that birth rate
01:24:59decline is not a problem is kind we shouldn't we shouldn't consider it especially from a left
01:25:05leaning perspective we shouldn't consider it because it's good for the environment like
01:25:11i i've really i've really struggled to thread this needle like properly that's a hard one
01:25:15the thing that disappoints me is you know before i was even born right around when i was born in the
01:25:2090s they considered taking that social security fund and having it having that money get put into
01:25:24something like the s p 500 yes at this point it would be insanely large and we would have enough
01:25:31money to do whatever we would have like a norway level uh sovereign wealth fund it'd be incredible
01:25:37because norway's actually capitalistic and smart with their money apparently via the government
01:25:41but we said no let's tie it to the low t bills like mr o'leary was talking about which is another
01:25:46reason why i'm against like low t bills because guess what didn't grow now it's being drained
01:25:51i saw some stats around uh sam backman freed's investments with ftx uh anthropic was one of them
01:25:59i think spacex was another one and because during administration bankruptcy whatever the it's called
01:26:07what's it called liquidation like when we sell it all sell everything get the value of it right now and
01:26:12just give people the pennies on the dollar to what it is that they're owed by this bank that goes under
01:26:16that was run by a guy that played league of legends while he was on skype calls if they'd held to now
01:26:24everybody would have got their money back i mean you could have paid people probably double triple
01:26:31quadruped their investment in anthropic is worth like a fucking insane amount of money the same thing
01:26:35goes with spacex ipo that just occurred that's a question what do you make of having the world's first
01:26:40trillionaire in existence right now yeah it's interesting a lot of people are very angry about
01:26:45it um you know uh a lot of i i'm happy that you can get rewarded in this country for the things you do
01:26:56we're getting internet beamed from space i love my tesla the self-driving is insane if people haven't
01:27:01been in a recently updated self-driving tesla like you can read eat drink coffee scroll on tick tock and
01:27:08the car will get you somewhere perfectly fine with that without without looking at the road it's one
01:27:13of the crazy that's technology no one would have even dreamed of 20 years ago the things that we're
01:27:17doing the private space like i think it should be rewarded for it trillions a lot it's crazy but even if
01:27:23the argument is you're against someone being a trillionaire what's then the action the action is
01:27:29you're forcing him to sell a position of his own company you're saying we're taking a gun and we're saying
01:27:33you must sell a position of your company to pay tax on it i'm against that as a philosophy that doesn't
01:27:39make sense should a trillionaire exist i don't know but if you decide the answer is no the actual action
01:27:46that comes from it is world's worst than whether or not a trillionaire should exist forcing people to
01:27:50sell their companies crazy it's a really interesting argument i understand inequality is one of the
01:27:56craziest distorters of human behavior so one example from candace blake who's out in australia
01:28:02she looked at levels of uh self-sexualization and beautification of women and correlated posts on
01:28:09instagram and twitter at the time with the geolocation it came from and looked at the wealth inequality in
01:28:15that area women that were in higher wealth inequality uh ecologies posted more sexy selfies did more
01:28:22self-beautification and more self-sexualization the reason for that her theory was when you see both
01:28:28how high you could climb and how low you could fall if you pick the right or wrong mate that on average
01:28:34will be at least contributing to the household and maybe the breadwinner and the primary provider for
01:28:38you and your future family you start to turn on the taps in terms of the way that you work and that's
01:28:44one example in one very small niche of one very small study when globally everybody is now aware
01:28:51that there is a guy on the planet right now that could lose a trillion dollars and still be the richest
01:28:57man on the planet that you and me and everybody is closest to the second richest man in the world than the
01:29:06second richest man in the world is to the first richest man in the world that is deranging it's
01:29:12deranging to the way that people see their place in society it is i just try to put it in perspective
01:29:17and if the thing the thing is i've i'm i do well and i'm okay with paying more in taxes if that's the
01:29:23argument i'm not okay with it if we're not even able to investigate fraud if we're not able to blah
01:29:28blah blah you know there's a lot of things the bureaucracy is insane fucking so i'd rather not pay more in
01:29:33taxes until we actually get our shit figured out but even still i would be okay with paying taxes
01:29:38if we say it's going to fund something that's going to help people but the conversation has gone away
01:29:41from that to saying that man has a lot of money that's evil let's take it that's no longer the
01:29:46conversation i want to fund something that's actually good if we're going to raise taxes
01:29:49so it's the i they've lost me at that conversation and also they think like where does him being a
01:29:56trillionaire affect you for me i think what actually affects someone's personal life is
01:30:00they have to call a cashier to unlock a toothbrush at a corner shop that's actually impacting you on a
01:30:06daily life zoning laws is impacting you because it's preventing houses and higher rises being built
01:30:12which impacts your housing costs student loans being tied basically to hiring more administrators
01:30:19that impacts you there's so many more things impacting you than someone whose companies that he
01:30:23owns you know large stakes and went public and they're being valued high which made his net worth go
01:30:29exponential there's so many more things to address first and freaking out about that but something in the
01:30:34human nature especially of the more extremists i will say and more populous is like that person has
01:30:39a lot of money i don't let's take it but even if they took all of his money i think everyone gets
01:30:43like what is it like a thousand or two thousand bucks it's something it's something that it would
01:30:47actually be really nice and for a lot of people could be life-changing but that's one time it would
01:30:50drive inflation extreme and uh it would actually just be damaging in the end because then we don't
01:30:55have life-changing technology why would it drive inflation extreme speak to me as if i'm five
01:31:01well you know talking to you like you're a fucking llm here
01:31:05can you imagine if you had a caleb llm it's just shouting screaming at you all the whole time a
01:31:10rapid supply of 350 million americans spending a couple thousand bucks just out of the gate like
01:31:15a trillion dollars just pumped into the economy like that i mean that'd be brutal just look what we did
01:31:19during the pandemic pumping hundreds of billions so it'd be pretty brutal whilst also sounding like
01:31:25the sort of thing that we would want but not you need people to spend money one in the micro but not in the
01:31:29macro yeah not so much that it drives insane hiring sprees that pushes everyone's incomes to insane
01:31:35levels that pushes inflation higher what are the biggest financial red flags in dating
01:31:41uh high car debt would be absolutely horrible if i pull up to that tick tock girl we saw earlier in
01:31:47fifty thousand dollar car financing a fifty thousand dollar debt on a car like we'll hook up but we're
01:31:53not staying for a second okay it's a big red flag high car debt what else um i think it's nice for
01:32:05people to off off offer like splitting the bill on a first day you know i like being i guess the man
01:32:12and like paying for it but i think it's actually it's a green flag when people you know if they expect
01:32:16you to pay for it i think is a bit of a red flag you know if they're thinking like they're that special
01:32:20thing and that's why entitlements i don't know it just kind of turns me off specifically if when people
01:32:27have that main character syndrome and it gets tied into the financial situation of like expecting things
01:32:32you know that's kind of gross to me a bullshit degree i mean less less bullshit just toss that
01:32:38out to the side yeah what did you do you degree in yeah no sorry i dropped out this is not gonna work
01:32:43no you meet me on an imaginary imaginary would you date me i dropped out uh how much debt you got
01:32:50uh 25 000. that's all right i'd date you okay yeah nice tits thank you
01:33:00um car payment bullshit degree yeah um in that entitlement of like expectation around spending
01:33:07okay on them anything else what what uh low ambition i know that's kind of tied to finances in general
01:33:15but if someone's that ambitious i don't need someone to be ambitious to want to go make a million bucks
01:33:19a year but if someone isn't driven in their career or even just hobbies if they're not driven what a
01:33:25turn off i think going uh low ambition high materialism is the perfect cocktail it's like
01:33:33hey you're allowed to be materialistic as long as you've got the conscientiousness to know where
01:33:37the limit is and to be able to keep the front of the funnel pouring in yes you've described the gold
01:33:42digger and we've had lots of them on the show they're the oh i love a couple with a gold digger i can
01:33:48just i can just verbally punch all day why so much fun it's just so much fun because i see the person
01:33:54the typically unfortunately a man but i've actually had the reverse a few times but usually the man's
01:33:59actually working making a lot of money and she's over there feeling entitled and i see all the spending
01:34:03in their own statements i see proof in front of me of her just spending all this money and feeling like
01:34:07they should do all this well this guy over here is struggling working two jobs it is just it is a brutal
01:34:13thing and the nice thing the thing that i love about it is seeing that light bulb go off in his head when
01:34:17he notices this person's just using me how many couples have broken up because of what you revealed
01:34:23financially uh very rare on the show we've we've had a couple i had one divorce it wasn't from the
01:34:28show and it was a couple years ago just a bad marriage but it's actually pretty rare for people
01:34:31to break up you should couples merge finances at some point it's nice to have a joint account that
01:34:37incomes go in and then bills come out of and then we can send uh fun money to our own accounts from
01:34:43there i think after marriage makes a little more sense at least common law marriage because then
01:34:47you have some uh some of those protections in the case of death or whatnot but um yeah i mean it's
01:34:54fine it's fine if you want to keep it separate as long as they can actually budget the household
01:34:57people just usually fail at that without getting insight on the full thing what's your perspective
01:35:01on prenups yeah it's fine if there's like a big wealth divide yeah a big wealth divide it makes sense i
01:35:07think if you're both making a hundred it's a bit weird do you often see financial infidelity like
01:35:12hiding purchases all the time so common and most people don't think it's actually much of anything
01:35:17but the other person feels really hurt in the end they just don't realize it because spending is just
01:35:21one of those things or it's not it's not viewed as extreme as cheating it's not as extreme as cheating
01:35:25but it does impact the other person that they're hiding it from more than they think the moment it's
01:35:29exposed on the show you can see the pain in their face it's still trust yeah it's trust it's exactly trust not
01:35:36talking to the person it's a lot of things and it hurts them personally if you're not being honest
01:35:41with me about this how can i be certainly you're being honest with me about anything else oh yeah
01:35:47absolutely it's a vicious cycle with that stuff what uh is there a like sex difference in what men and
01:35:55women go broke doing honestly no not really i mean i'll get able to be equally retarded in similar
01:36:03directions retarded i mean they everyone loves collectibles they just get like different i got
01:36:07little boobos on the women and i got pokemon cards on the men everyone loves collectibles no no but
01:36:11like you know it's like split down the genders like like both genders love it does everyone's obsessed
01:36:17with warhammer 40k and others obsessed with beanie babies exactly so i mean you'll get some more
01:36:22frivolous spending maybe a guy will put some more into his car a girl will get more extensions but
01:36:26it's similar levels of what's actually interesting is you know talk about young men gambling issues but the
01:36:32the it's actually pretty similar in terms of percentage young men and young women this is
01:36:35not talked about no way men is higher but it's pretty close it's pretty close what do you think
01:36:40of prediction markets what's your it's fun just like drinking just like smoking weed um anything
01:36:45like that i think it's cool if you can control it if you know you have an addiction or an addictive
01:36:50personality you need to keep yourself away from like that yeah mental health issues impacting spending
01:36:56is that true like shopping addictions and stuff yeah or if you're depressed it feels good to get
01:37:01that dopamine spike of a quick purchase absolutely um yeah mental health affects everything in the
01:37:07end it's kind of that that discipline thing right everything stems from the discipline when it comes
01:37:11to personal finances if your mental health is bad usually your discipline is going to be bad
01:37:15i can't remember where it was i read this i think it might have been the ubi test study there
01:37:20was two that were done 2024 and uh one of the points there was if you're poor you can only really get
01:37:28small doses of pleasure from small things but that means that you're more likely to spend frivolously
01:37:35because you need to relieve the stress it's that point that we made before like if you have not that
01:37:41much pleasure in your life and you're burdened with worry and you don't know what the future has in
01:37:45store for you yeah you're going to go and buy cigarettes yeah because the cigarettes alleviate your
01:37:49suffering it's the certain things i remember there's this example from sam harris years ago it was
01:37:56during the some of the more crazy race conversations around mid 2020 and i was struggling to see uh
01:38:08philosophically consistent arguments about um white privilege and he came up with one that i thought
01:38:15was so cool and he said if i've ever gone through tsa and i've had my bag pulled i've never once thought
01:38:23that it's because of my race interesting not an interesting kind of white privilege i've never
01:38:29once thought that like i i've up like i left water in the water bottle or it's a random check by tsa
01:38:34because they've got to do it like this is what they do yeah that is not true if you're of a different
01:38:38race yeah it's just straight up not true and the same thing the same thing to a degree is also true
01:38:47when it comes to being poor that there are these sort of secret psychological loops that people go
01:38:53through about what their financial position means to their identity how they then cope with that
01:38:59identity with their behavior which feeds back into the financial position yeah that seems to be the one of
01:39:04the very unseen death spirals and it's too it's too complex to put on a billboard it doesn't sound
01:39:11sexy like what what intervention are you going to have as a politician or as a potential president
01:39:17going and we are going to teach people how to intervene in their conscientiousness when they begin
01:39:22the downward death spiral of sedating themselves from feeling bad about their financial position doing
01:39:27things that makes a financial position was no it is way too complex despite the fact that it might be one
01:39:33of the key driving forces okay how can we how can we give people i mean we do we give people social
01:39:40media which is some of the freest dopamine that you can get on the planet but i think all that that
01:39:44really does is raise the waterline of minimum dopamine that you now need an even bigger dose to be
01:39:50able to break out the top of it i wonder whether we would be in better financial positions without social
01:39:56media oh probably i mean we see things we see the lifestyles that people pretend they have all the time
01:40:02and we like to chase lifestyles we're jealous we're jealous people jealous species it makes sense i think
01:40:09that's one of the drivers of lifestyle inflation and unfortunately poor people will go broke trying
01:40:15to look rich oh yeah the car especially absolutely is that what's the dumbest purchase category that
01:40:21people constantly overspend on constantly in america it's certainly the car well and it's baked into our
01:40:28infrastructure you have to drive you have to drive to have a job to have to drive like that is the
01:40:32reality but people will over justify how much car they need needing the new car because of the new
01:40:38safety rating like cars would literally kill you five years ago or something like i don't really get
01:40:43that um a fuel efficiency like you can make some arguments and stuff especially in times like now
01:40:47where gas is up but people will justify the heck again like her out of getting a 50 000 car loan for
01:40:55a car that you do not need what is the rough rule of how to work out what price of car you're able to
01:41:03afford it comes down to the monthly payment if you get a debt as long as you put 20 down it is a three-year
01:41:09term the minimum monthly payment should be no more than eight percent of your income if it is then
01:41:14you're getting a car that's likely too much out of your affordability range it seems like a pretty
01:41:19simple formula yeah it's easy yeah it gets most people a pretty good car what does that get an
01:41:25average earner making 50 grand a year oh i don't know should we do the math i can do the math do the
01:41:31math uh okay um well then i have to like understand what 20 down would be so it'd have to be post 20
01:41:39percent okay okay okay fifty thousand dollars because it is gross income so talking eight so
01:41:44it's forty thousand you can do forty thousand divide that by twelve so i mean that's pretty chunky
01:41:50um no no sorry that's not eighth i did eighty percent okay so four thousand hours over twelve
01:41:58that's three hundred thirty three dollars but you have to come so as long as you put twenty percent
01:42:02down it's a three-year your car payment three hundred thirty three dollars you can probably get a good
01:42:07bit of car for that money decent decent i mean interest rates depends on your credit score you
01:42:12might have to go a little higher then you just need to pay down quicker and i'm okay with that you just
01:42:15got to put extra towards it you just don't have to freak out about it if you're doing that if you're
01:42:18following that rule i guess a lot of people need credit to build a financial future whilst also
01:42:24struggling to build credit to qualify for it because they lack credit history yeah but there's credit
01:42:30builders now there's charge cards now where yeah you know you put the money on there to spend but it's
01:42:35building credit uh so there's a lot more resources today than before if people are just willing to look
01:42:40can someone become obsessed with financial optimization to the point where they make their life worse
01:42:45i mean our friend our friend graham stefan i think a little right i mean i don't know is uh i don't
01:42:50think he needs to i love the dude i love the dude but everything you see on camera is actually what
01:42:54you get in reality and he will micro freak out about just a little penny he's gonna spend on lunch or
01:43:00something and he'd make more money if you use that mental effort on producing a piece of content
01:43:05isn't that a hidden cost a strange kind of hidden cost of obsessing over finances too much but you
01:43:10know what he has fun with this so it's actually probably not making his life worse well yeah because
01:43:14his enjoyment from scrutinizing and saving is greater than the enjoyment he would get from the
01:43:21spending yeah it's this weird i mean he was built to be a saving engine yes he's like the
01:43:27fucking lebron james of saving money but i think for some people if you get to that way and it's not
01:43:31actually your passion and it's more coming from like let's say i don't want to overuse the word
01:43:35trauma but trauma of like growing up poor so now you're just freaking out about it constantly i think
01:43:39that could you know hurt your lifestyle interesting archetypes of people that grew up without money i i grew
01:43:45up without money and uh some people grow up to i've never had this before fuck it we ball or i've never
01:43:53had this before it might be taken away i'm not going to spend it that's us yeah you read die with zero
01:43:59by bill perkins no oh dude i know but i haven't really fun it's three hour read or listen or whatever
01:44:04and um he's just got some interesting ideas that i would be hey you i know you're doing financial
01:44:10audit are you sitting down with other people that are morgan housels of the world the bill perkins of
01:44:16the world have you got any desire to do that to because i would love for you to scrutinize financial
01:44:21philosophies from people that have got popular financial books it'd be it'd be fun but i also
01:44:25have to acknowledge even though there's some topics that i'm interested in learning from experts from
01:44:30i'm no different from just a dude off the street i'm not a fucking expert like i'll listen to people
01:44:34but it's hard for me to like push back against a true expert in their position that's why i like
01:44:38keep into what i do it's basic personal finances is so basic until you get to the crazy
01:44:43shit so basic until you get to the top 0.1 is this budgeting control discipline low index funds low
01:44:50cost index funds target date retirement funds emergency fund that that's the i'm into bread and
01:44:56butter you've exited all of your rental properties exiting yeah why um better return on investment in
01:45:02the stock market all day every day no hassle either i mean i'm not the one fielding the calls when
01:45:06something breaks but you know it's just every month is up and down depending on what needs to be repaired
01:45:11and just even if nothing needed to be repaired the only thing you take advantage of is some leverage
01:45:17there which can be nice especially if the market booms but in general real estate has lost now
01:45:24to the s p 500 just consistently i'd love to own a piece of commercial like you do that's great you know
01:45:30you get some some uh quick depreciations on there which is really nice uh so that's something i'd be
01:45:35willing to get into at some point i'm unwinding all of the houses i have in the uk except for the one
01:45:40that i i still live in that's like there's still my my place of well that's a collapsing country so
01:45:45that's true that is that is true but i mean i there was a period and this was sort of what i
01:45:52grew up with i was very fortunate that when i started doing business the guy that was my partner was
01:45:59five years older than me in the exact same industry i'm very very financially responsible and i only
01:46:05child so didn't have anybody that was entrepreneurial understanding the uk system and working in the
01:46:10same industry with the kind of cash flow and the sort of pacing that we would get so i just followed
01:46:15the same path that he was on and his was every time that you get to about 30 000 pounds of spare
01:46:21deposit on a buy to let student property between two and five bedrooms in a good student area
01:46:26hand it off to a management company they'll take between 10 and 20 and wait you just 20 rinse and
01:46:32repeat i managed to negotiate to 12 but uh rinse and repeat okay that's that's pretty good and let's
01:46:38say i never talk about money this is my britishism but i've got you here so let's say uh the best
01:46:45purchase that i made was 150 000 pounds a five bed student property in heaton in newcastle and i would
01:46:58have put 25 percent down so i i think i i think all in with stamp duty and the fees and all the rest of
01:47:07this stuff i think i put somewhere in the region of like 50 grand down and that would make after
01:47:12everything 1800 pounds a month and then there would be maybe some repairs that we needed so let's say
01:47:211500 so that's like 18 grand 18 grand a year great cash vehicle yeah but what you were really doing it
01:47:28for was to tie because it's an interest-only mortgage so you were just tiding over hoping that everything
01:47:33would be kept in maybe it would spew out a little bit of cash and that would be lovely but you were
01:47:38waiting for the capital gains that was what you wanted i'm going to hold this for 10 years and it's
01:47:41going to go from 150 to 200 to 250 and then it's going to be and i'm unwinding all of these properties
01:47:46and like the future that i promised myself has not come to fruition yeah it's they've all appreciated
01:47:52hooray but kia starmer's changed the capital gains tax i'm getting fist-fucked off that and the
01:47:58gains that i thought that was going to make didn't occur and i'm in the exact same position as you i
01:48:03also now this is my fault i have to pull the money across from pounds to usd so i'm going to get fist
01:48:09on the exchange and i'm going to have to do something creative in order to be able to it's
01:48:13company to company so it's relatively linear to do limited company in the us the uk to an llc over here
01:48:19but like i was thinking this is going to be you know retirement fund stuff and maybe if i'd held
01:48:25it for the rest of time and never left the uk that would have been it but it when i started and i was
01:48:32behind dave business partner that was sort of laying this groundwork for hey this is how you get to a
01:48:37financial level of of real comfortability that that route is is not the same anymore at all and and
01:48:46everybody hates landlords so like something that used to be hey you're holding on to this property you're
01:48:52making sure that it's kept to a high standard you're uh making sure that we're well looked after you're
01:48:59a good landlord even if there's a management company in between you and us uh there's no
01:49:04prestige really associated with it now in the same way no it's just kind of interesting i mean i got
01:49:09shared from the landlord thing too i mean i don't really care because it's usually coming from people
01:49:12that have no impact on anything in society but a couple of the places i bought were basically
01:49:18unlivable and i brought them up to be a place for people to live in and people like literally they
01:49:24were on the market people were not buying them to bring it up to live in because it was in the
01:49:29student area of western michigan university no one was going to live in the student section no one
01:49:33was buying a house to live there uh so it was places that just weren't being lived in that i made
01:49:38livable and actually benefited there was a period in the uk and i came in after this which is
01:49:44it does make sense one of the big criticisms you took a uh two bed or three bed classic family home
01:49:52and you rejig all of the walls and the construction to turn it into five or six or seven bed student
01:49:58properties there's no family in newcastle that needs a seven bed house in yeah uh that is basically
01:50:05locked in for the rest of time that this is going to be a student property and now if you ever stop you
01:50:12it's called an hmo it's a house of multiple occupancy if you ever take it out of that you
01:50:17can never get the license back so they're now trying to reverse that back to try and encourage families
01:50:22to buy these houses but the problem is i'm never going to sell one of my houses well that's not i
01:50:27would sell it to whoever wants to pay the price but no family is going to pay the price that i can get
01:50:32from somebody that wants it as an investment property because they are going to have to knock all of
01:50:37these walls down and turn it back into what it was before it was turned into a student house which i
01:50:42didn't do governments will do any rule regulation tax whatever to think they're trying to encourage
01:50:48something other than literally just make zoning laws better for people to just build what people
01:50:54are demanding i will never understand it that's why that's why i love this town i love austin because
01:50:58we let people build more houses on units now on lots we let people build higher houses we got rid of parking
01:51:05minimums where the government forced you to have a certain amount of parking spots it's so stupid
01:51:10they'll do every every policy besides just letting developers build what the market demands dude there
01:51:16is a a lot near zilka that i drive past sometimes and it used to have one old style ranch house that
01:51:24probably had two beds it was up on sticks walk up a little set of wooden stairs to get to it classic
01:51:29wooden ranchy house and it had a trailer thing that was for some for pancakes it must have been a business
01:51:36that the person had started at some point and there was a bit of a yard outside or whatever and then one
01:51:41day no house no trailer just flattened like there'd been a miniature atomic bomb that went off there are
01:51:47now three ground floor first floor second store story houses built on this one plot of land yeah and they
01:51:57look nice they've i mean it's still all green and insulation and wooden shit at the moment but and that's
01:52:03nice that's due to literally texas and the city of austin just a couple years ago like passing those
01:52:08kind of reforms i heard that the housing problem in america would be fixed if the zoning laws were
01:52:13changed that there's enough demand and enough capital to be able to make the houses the only issue
01:52:19is that the nimby problem yeah it's the nimby's yeah which makes sense i mean if you're thinking about
01:52:24your own interest in california and la you want the cost of your house to continue going up forever
01:52:29that's usually where the majority of your wealth is you can borrow against that so of course you don't
01:52:33want more development coming in housing prices to fall it's economically against you and you're
01:52:38usually a big voting block you're a big uh important part of local elections and you can
01:52:43be a loud voice at the city council meeting so it makes sense that people are against it but
01:52:48i don't know i mean be all the way build with the market demands i think a couple restrictions
01:52:52make sense i don't want it like a uh you shouldn't be drilling for oil in someone's backyard you
01:52:56know i don't know i i'm overall pro data centers because the information around there's a lot of
01:53:01misinformation but do i want a data center in my exact backyard no build them in the middle of
01:53:05nowhere that's what i like um so it's just like yeah there's some restrictions make sense but let
01:53:12the market build what the market demands i wonder how many people are eat the rich they're taking the
01:53:20money that young people need in order to be able to buy houses whilst also being i don't want any
01:53:24houses built near me oh yeah usually the biggest nimbys are the ones that say in this neighborhood
01:53:30you know the signs what is it in this neighborhood we accept science is real women are women yes yes
01:53:35women are people black people are i there's i know the exact sign that you mean and usually the nimbys
01:53:41yeah yeah interesting how much money do you need to raise a kid um well uh definitely less than
01:53:49people think for sure because i mean forever throughout human existence you know we're just
01:53:53having kids and it was fine it is a little harder today but going through public school um getting
01:54:00them on your insurance all that good stuff if you're not thinking about having to get parent plus loans
01:54:04like you could you can do it on just a normal middle class salary for sure you can have quite a few
01:54:08kids but an exact number i don't have that i think people believe that it's more expensive
01:54:16than it actually might be but again a lot of that is what do i think i need and what do i think that
01:54:23my kid would need versus what what is actually needed this is an interesting part of that birth rate
01:54:30debate that we had where in order to have the kid realistically assuming that you don't have some
01:54:37huge windfall of money the total pie of money that you have to spend is not going to change all that
01:54:41much in fact it might go down as one partner needs to take time off work in order to raise them
01:54:46and then child care costs and all the rest of it that means that your lifestyle needs to take a hit
01:54:53you need to i'm not going to be able to go for dinner as much yeah i'm not going to be able to
01:54:57upgrade the car as frequently and that feels like that feels like getting poorer yeah where
01:55:04what you've done is you've just reportioned the money from what would have been car to know what
01:55:09now is child which i'm i empathize with it makes sense so if you don't want to have kids don't have
01:55:14kids that's kind of what you said earlier right you know we shouldn't force people to have kids but
01:55:18we also should shouldn't be doing misinformation of people thinking they need to have an endless supply
01:55:23of money to have kids like well we're richer than ever before and people have had kids when we were
01:55:28poorer than ever before like you do need money you need school supplies you do need to make sure they
01:55:34can be on your health insurance like there are a lot of things you need money for but we overemphasize
01:55:40it for sure forcing people to have kids is horrendous but scaring people out of not having kids when they
01:55:46could because of misinformation is also something that never gets spoken about oh yeah yeah caleb hammer
01:55:53ladies and gentlemen dude you're awesome i appreciate you i think what you do is great
01:55:56where should people go to check out all of the shit you've got going on caleb hammer on youtube
01:56:00and i recommend everyone download dollar wise change their lives unreal until next time man appreciate
01:56:05you thank you goodbye my beauties dude that was fun thank you very much for tuning in if you enjoyed
01:56:12that episode another one that i know you love it's just here