Transcript
00:00:00I'm starting in OnlyFans and I'm selling merch.
00:00:02This has taken way too long and I'm very sorry,
00:00:05but it is so worth it.
00:00:06The designs are unreal.
00:00:07We've upgraded the blanks
00:00:08so they're even better quality than last time.
00:00:10And this bursting heart design
00:00:12with Japanese text in the middle is just so beautiful.
00:00:16Also, your girlfriend's new favorite hoodie.
00:00:18I apologize to anybody who buys this
00:00:20because I get the sense
00:00:21that your girlfriend's just gonna steal it.
00:00:22All of it is available right now at mwmerch.com
00:00:25and it's only available for six days.
00:00:27So get it once it's gone.
00:00:28You won't be able to buy it again.
00:00:29That's it, completely sold out,
00:00:31never to be printed in the future, mwmerch.com.
00:00:34What phone have you got?
00:00:35What is that?
00:00:35This is a Galaxy Fold.
00:00:38So it's got like the regular phone set up,
00:00:40but then when you don't wanna go wide,
00:00:43you get this bad boy.
00:00:44Why no Apple?
00:00:46I mean, it's a philosophical thing for me.
00:00:50I just, back when I used to do a lot more of this myself
00:00:54instead of running companies that do this,
00:00:55but when I was doing it on my own,
00:00:58essentially the Android operating system
00:01:00is published online
00:01:01and the AOSP it's called,
00:01:03it's the open source project.
00:01:05You used to be able to see most,
00:01:07like a good amount of the inner workings
00:01:11of the phone essentially
00:01:12and understand how it works
00:01:14and where the holes were.
00:01:16I looked at it for two reasons.
00:01:17One reason was I was trying to develop implants
00:01:20for zero days for the military at the time
00:01:22and Android being open
00:01:25allowed us to look into those types of things.
00:01:27And then the second reason was
00:01:29I could dump my phone myself and look at it.
00:01:33So if I was traveling to a country
00:01:34where I was sure something was gonna be going on
00:01:37with my phone
00:01:37or maybe I got pulled into secondary customs
00:01:39and my phone was out of my hands for a while,
00:01:43it was a lot more available to me to do that.
00:01:46Whereas with Apple,
00:01:47it was very difficult to do those types of things.
00:01:49Does that not make it more secure
00:01:53that it's a closed architecture
00:01:55that doesn't allow you to see
00:01:56where potential vulnerabilities are?
00:01:58As long as you trust the company.
00:01:59Right.
00:02:00So you've got on one hand
00:02:02how much I trust Apple
00:02:03and on the other hand
00:02:04how competent I think people
00:02:06that can look at the Android operating system
00:02:08to find its vulnerabilities are?
00:02:09Yes.
00:02:10Right, okay.
00:02:10Yeah, and I'd rather be able to look for myself.
00:02:13Have you got any idea
00:02:13what the justification is
00:02:15for getting access to somebody's phone
00:02:16without them giving permission?
00:02:20You don't need a lot of justification
00:02:21with things like the Patriot Act.
00:02:22I mean, with those things hanging around,
00:02:24it's just...
00:02:25Even though that was created before
00:02:27phones and operating systems for phones.
00:02:30Yeah, at that point,
00:02:31they were going after
00:02:32the telephonic infrastructure.
00:02:35So microwave links,
00:02:37down and up channel links
00:02:38from BTS's base transversations.
00:02:43That's tapping into signals.
00:02:45The infrastructure.
00:02:46Right.
00:02:46Yeah, and the signals
00:02:47that live from the tower to the cell phone.
00:02:49But by saying infrastructure,
00:02:51you've kind of future-proofed yourself
00:02:52for if there's going to be technology
00:02:54that comes out
00:02:54which is a different kind of infrastructure.
00:02:57Yes.
00:02:58Oh, so it was very cleverly written.
00:03:00Unless they updated it in future.
00:03:01Well, they updated it
00:03:02and made it more...
00:03:03It's more usurpatious.
00:03:04It's one of the most usurpatious pieces...
00:03:06What's that one?
00:03:06...usurping.
00:03:08Right, right, right.
00:03:09Underwrite, like underhanded.
00:03:11It was the Patriot Act.
00:03:13Can you think of a more innocuous term for something?
00:03:17Department of Peace.
00:03:18And it's just one of those things
00:03:21where we would need a six-hour podcast
00:03:24to pull the string on how we got there,
00:03:27but it's a conflation
00:03:29of a lot of useful idiots looking for power.
00:03:32It's essentially the long and short story of it.
00:03:35How much do you think...
00:03:37I've heard the people bring up 9-11,
00:03:40Patriot Act after that,
00:03:41surveillance, NSA...
00:03:43Pfizer.
00:03:44All of the...
00:03:45Pfizer?
00:03:46Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.
00:03:47Oh, right.
00:03:48I thought you meant the fucking...
00:03:49Which has its...
00:03:49I was like, how is Big Pharma involved in this?
00:03:51No, I'm sorry.
00:03:52She's got their fingers in everything.
00:03:54I knew it was a COVID vaccine.
00:03:55Yeah, yeah.
00:03:55Loop it round.
00:03:56Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:03:585G.
00:03:59Pfizer is a foreign intelligence security act,
00:04:01which is a kangaroo court
00:04:02that sits near Fort Meade, Maryland.
00:04:05And when there's classified work going on,
00:04:07this is all...
00:04:07You can Google this.
00:04:08I'm not giving the keys away to anything.
00:04:11When you want to go after someone furtively
00:04:14or undercover,
00:04:16you go to a court that's, you know,
00:04:18part of the NSA
00:04:20or part of the triumvirate three-letter soup agencies.
00:04:23And you go to this judge and you say,
00:04:25hey, we think this guy's...
00:04:26You know, we think Chris is a bad guy.
00:04:28He's actually here spying for the English.
00:04:30And here's three reasons why.
00:04:32And the court will sign it.
00:04:33And it never sees the light of day.
00:04:35I never thought about this.
00:04:37Meta, even now, OpenAI,
00:04:39you know, relatively new company,
00:04:41they must have,
00:04:42hey, we've found this person
00:04:45that we think is potentially a bad guy.
00:04:48We need access to their chat GPT logs.
00:04:51I'm sure that's happening.
00:04:52So for every big platform,
00:04:54software and hardware,
00:04:56there is going to be some form of interface
00:05:00between them and the government.
00:05:03And for some of them...
00:05:04A formal and informal.
00:05:06So there'll be the government,
00:05:08and this is,
00:05:09I'll use the proxy,
00:05:11a government.
00:05:12I won't say the US government again
00:05:14because I don't want to get sued.
00:05:15They'll do a overt relationship
00:05:17that's got a memorandum of understanding
00:05:19or an agreement between,
00:05:20or a memorandum of agreement
00:05:21between the two companies saying,
00:05:22you know,
00:05:23here,
00:05:23and it'll be very,
00:05:24you know,
00:05:24what you would expect to see.
00:05:27If there's a terrorist
00:05:28or something like that,
00:05:28you guys are going to help us.
00:05:29But then there'll be alternate channels
00:05:31that will get built,
00:05:32you know,
00:05:32on the clandestine side
00:05:34where the government will,
00:05:36a government will recruit someone
00:05:37in that place
00:05:38to say,
00:05:39hey,
00:05:39you're in charge of the security
00:05:41or you're in charge
00:05:42of the infrastructure here,
00:05:43you know,
00:05:44you've got a daughter
00:05:46who needs really good cancer treatment.
00:05:47We could hook her up
00:05:48with Johns Hopkins
00:05:49or something like that.
00:05:50I'm not saying the US government,
00:05:51governments do it.
00:05:52Yep.
00:05:54Allegedly.
00:05:54And so they'll set
00:05:55these relationships up.
00:05:57You know,
00:05:58the triumvirate
00:05:59that you think about
00:06:00when it concerns
00:06:01spying
00:06:02is placement,
00:06:05access,
00:06:06and motivation,
00:06:08susceptibility,
00:06:09and accessibility.
00:06:11So when you're looking at a source,
00:06:13somebody you want to recruit to spy,
00:06:15it's,
00:06:15does he work in the organization?
00:06:17Does he have access
00:06:17to the information that we want?
00:06:19Is he motivated
00:06:20to share that information?
00:06:21And can I access him
00:06:22when he's outside of the organization
00:06:23to get,
00:06:24you know,
00:06:24a hold of the secrets?
00:06:27And that's what you,
00:06:28you know,
00:06:29I was also trained in the military
00:06:30as a human intelligence operator,
00:06:32which is,
00:06:32you know,
00:06:33recruiting people
00:06:34to screw over
00:06:35their own countries.
00:06:36So,
00:06:37those are the things
00:06:38that you consider.
00:06:39And so,
00:06:40you know,
00:06:40and if the Americans
00:06:41wouldn't do it,
00:06:42then they'll allow the English
00:06:43or some other Five Eyes
00:06:44organization to do it,
00:06:45and then they'll talk to them.
00:06:47So,
00:06:47you know,
00:06:48the Americans might know
00:06:50that the English
00:06:50has recruited a spy
00:06:51inside of a,
00:06:52MI5 or MI6
00:06:53has recruited a spy
00:06:54inside of an organization
00:06:55that they can't recruit against,
00:06:57at least on the books.
00:06:58So they'll just get debriefed
00:07:00by a Five Eyes partner
00:07:01who's doing the same thing.
00:07:02Oh,
00:07:03okay.
00:07:03So,
00:07:04one country
00:07:05that is in partnership
00:07:06with another one
00:07:06has been able to place somebody
00:07:08who will feed information
00:07:09back to them
00:07:09in an organization.
00:07:10Yeah,
00:07:11the English don't care
00:07:11about the Bill of Rights.
00:07:12A different country
00:07:13can't do that,
00:07:15but as long as
00:07:16the umbrella at the top
00:07:17is able to disseminate
00:07:18that information back down,
00:07:20everybody can share.
00:07:21or they'll just collect
00:07:22against that.
00:07:22They'll know
00:07:23that there's a spy here,
00:07:24so then a security agency
00:07:25will collect against that spy
00:07:27while he's operating
00:07:27in the country,
00:07:28have an understanding
00:07:29of what he's doing,
00:07:30and then if there's
00:07:31a U.S. person's nexus,
00:07:32then there's a process
00:07:34called minimization procedures,
00:07:35which again,
00:07:36you can Google
00:07:36and read online,
00:07:37but it's how do we minimize
00:07:38the exposure
00:07:39of an American person,
00:07:40but all of it
00:07:41still gets cataloged,
00:07:42so it's all still there.
00:07:43What's minimization's procedure?
00:07:44Minimization is
00:07:45when there's
00:07:45an inadvertent collection
00:07:46of an American U.S. person
00:07:48or even a dual citizen,
00:07:51the government's not
00:07:51supposed to be
00:07:52collecting against them,
00:07:53so once there's
00:07:54an inadvertent collection,
00:07:55whether it's through technology
00:07:56or you accidentally
00:07:57recruit an American,
00:07:58which really doesn't
00:07:59happen that often,
00:08:00or you come across
00:08:01some media that was
00:08:02generated by an American,
00:08:03ostensibly,
00:08:04they're supposed to be
00:08:05protected by the Bill of Rights
00:08:06and unlawful search
00:08:08and seizure,
00:08:08freedom of speech,
00:08:10Ninth Amendment,
00:08:11all of those things
00:08:12are supposed to come into play,
00:08:14but what the government
00:08:15will do is
00:08:16they'll start
00:08:16a minimization channel,
00:08:17and it's a good idea
00:08:19in practice
00:08:19because, of course,
00:08:20there will be
00:08:21inadvertent collection.
00:08:22Like, I as an American
00:08:23might be traveling
00:08:23in Bahrain
00:08:25and then show up
00:08:26on a cell phone channel
00:08:28that they're collecting on,
00:08:30and then my,
00:08:31excuse me,
00:08:31my information's now collected,
00:08:33and that goes back
00:08:34to, you know,
00:08:35Fort Meade or wherever,
00:08:36and they're like,
00:08:36oh, there's an American.
00:08:37There's a process
00:08:38to get rid
00:08:39of that information.
00:08:40It's just the process
00:08:42moves conveniently slow
00:08:44in my experience
00:08:45and is another vector
00:08:49for usurping people's rights.
00:08:52So, there are people
00:08:54in there trying to fight it
00:08:55in the government.
00:08:56The government,
00:08:56you know,
00:08:57you can listen to Rand Paul
00:08:58stump on this all day.
00:08:59You know,
00:09:00I agree with some
00:09:01of what he says,
00:09:01some I don't agree with,
00:09:02but they are obviously aware
00:09:04of these things happening.
00:09:05They're fighting things
00:09:05like FISA,
00:09:06which we've mentioned.
00:09:06They're fighting things
00:09:07like the process
00:09:08for minimization,
00:09:09but it's a slow,
00:09:10the government's,
00:09:10you know,
00:09:11a behemoth.
00:09:13It's got to be hard
00:09:14when technology is able
00:09:15to move as quickly
00:09:15as it does
00:09:16to be able to keep up
00:09:17as well.
00:09:17Legislation just takes
00:09:18so long.
00:09:19And even working out,
00:09:20okay,
00:09:20what is the strategy
00:09:22we want to implement,
00:09:23let alone,
00:09:24can we get it past
00:09:25the appropriate
00:09:26hurdles legislatively
00:09:29to get it brought in?
00:09:30Yeah,
00:09:30the staffing of that
00:09:31legislation
00:09:31and then the voting
00:09:32and the pork.
00:09:34And presumably
00:09:35the talent
00:09:35is always going
00:09:36to be on the side
00:09:36of the people
00:09:37building the technology,
00:09:38not legislating against it.
00:09:39In order to be able
00:09:41to at least begin
00:09:42to understand
00:09:43how we want to compensate
00:09:44for this new type
00:09:45of technology,
00:09:46you need to understand
00:09:47the technology,
00:09:48but the people
00:09:49understanding it
00:09:50from the government side
00:09:51are never going
00:09:51to be as talented
00:09:52as the people
00:09:52that are building it.
00:09:53So you're always
00:09:54in a race
00:09:54that you're
00:09:55very far behind.
00:09:57Very few organizations
00:09:57are as competent
00:09:58as the free market
00:09:59inside of the U.S. government.
00:10:01One of them
00:10:01would be DARPA.
00:10:02I advised there
00:10:03for a couple of years.
00:10:04It's kind of the black box
00:10:05of the DOD.
00:10:07Their job is to
00:10:08just come up
00:10:09with holy shit ideas
00:10:10and then they get
00:10:12a budget
00:10:13to work after these things.
00:10:14Oftentimes,
00:10:15they'll fund things
00:10:16that they know
00:10:17will not be built,
00:10:19but they're hoping
00:10:20that there'll be
00:10:20spin-offs
00:10:21from the idea
00:10:21that will help.
00:10:22So they might say
00:10:23like we want to build,
00:10:23I always use this analogy,
00:10:25we might want to build
00:10:26a rocket ship
00:10:29that can make it
00:10:30to Mars
00:10:30in half the time.
00:10:31That's just something easy
00:10:32we can talk about.
00:10:33So they'll fund that
00:10:34and the only thing
00:10:37useful that might
00:10:37come out of it
00:10:38might be a new type
00:10:38of carbon fiber
00:10:39that they had to develop
00:10:41as one of the subject lines.
00:10:43One of the key
00:10:44performance parameters
00:10:44was this new type
00:10:45of carbon fiber
00:10:46that was lighter
00:10:47and stronger.
00:10:48So they never built
00:10:48the rocket ship,
00:10:49but they have three other
00:10:50products that came out
00:10:51of it and then those things
00:10:52get released
00:10:52into the free market.
00:10:53So it's quite a useful
00:10:54organization.
00:10:54It's quite good actually.
00:10:56It was more applicable
00:10:57back in like the 80s
00:10:58and the 70s
00:10:59because technology
00:11:01hadn't evolved
00:11:01to the point
00:11:02where any big idea
00:11:03was going to need
00:11:04hundreds of millions
00:11:05of dollars.
00:11:06Whereas today
00:11:06there's people out there
00:11:07like Elon and others
00:11:08who can fund
00:11:09these really big ideas.
00:11:10So it's still
00:11:11a good organization,
00:11:12but I would say
00:11:13that's the last bastion
00:11:14of competence
00:11:15inside of the government.
00:11:16Otherwise,
00:11:17it's a totally
00:11:18incompetent organization.
00:11:20What was it that you said
00:11:21you had human hacking
00:11:24as well as software hacking?
00:11:25Well, human intelligence
00:11:26is the gathering
00:11:26of intelligence
00:11:27through human,
00:11:28like, you know,
00:11:28source and method means,
00:11:30sources and methods means.
00:11:31And then there's,
00:11:32the government calls
00:11:34it ethical hacking,
00:11:35which is really
00:11:35a ridiculous moniker
00:11:37where you're,
00:11:39you know,
00:11:39you're exploiting
00:11:40computer systems
00:11:41and building things
00:11:41like zero days
00:11:42and you're exploiting
00:11:43structural cracks
00:11:46or crevices
00:11:46in technology.
00:11:48And sometimes
00:11:48you'll never use them.
00:11:49They'll just sit
00:11:50on the shelf
00:11:50and that's kind of
00:11:51where the term
00:11:51zero day comes from.
00:11:52It's like breaking
00:11:52class in case,
00:11:54break glass
00:11:54in case of emergency.
00:11:55Then there'll be
00:11:56other ones that get
00:11:57used all of the time.
00:11:58And then there'll be
00:11:59people who do this
00:12:00in the government.
00:12:01There'll be people
00:12:01who do this,
00:12:02you know,
00:12:02white hat hackers
00:12:04who will expose
00:12:06these things
00:12:06and then,
00:12:06you know,
00:12:07either do it
00:12:07for a bounty
00:12:08with a company
00:12:09or do it
00:12:09to enable something
00:12:11they're trying
00:12:11to do on their own side.
00:12:12These people
00:12:13who are talented hackers
00:12:14get employed
00:12:14by a company
00:12:15to see if they can
00:12:15break their own system.
00:12:17That was my first
00:12:17job offering
00:12:18when I got out of the military
00:12:19was to do it
00:12:19for a bank.
00:12:20I have a very good friend
00:12:21who we went through
00:12:22the same training pipeline
00:12:23together
00:12:23and we were both
00:12:25offered a very good
00:12:26amount of money
00:12:27from a bank
00:12:27to just go after
00:12:28their own infrastructure
00:12:29and then report back
00:12:30on how we were able
00:12:30to, you know.
00:12:32It's a weird
00:12:33kind of ransom.
00:12:34Yeah.
00:12:34It's a victimless ransom
00:12:36that only makes
00:12:37things stronger.
00:12:37Yeah, right.
00:12:38Yes, exactly.
00:12:39Penetration testing
00:12:40is the unfortunate moniker.
00:12:43When it comes
00:12:46to getting access
00:12:47to information systems,
00:12:48how often is it
00:12:49a software hack
00:12:52and how often
00:12:53is it a human hack?
00:12:54Well, that depends
00:12:55on how,
00:12:56it depends on your budget
00:12:57and how fortified
00:12:59the infrastructure is
00:13:01and how they treat
00:13:02operational security
00:13:03or OPSEC.
00:13:04So you'll do
00:13:05like a target profile.
00:13:07You'll, you know,
00:13:08your commander
00:13:08or whoever
00:13:09you work for
00:13:10will state a goal.
00:13:11We want access
00:13:12to, you know,
00:13:14X information
00:13:15at, you know,
00:13:16X organization,
00:13:17whatever that might be.
00:13:18And then you'll get
00:13:19a bunch of people
00:13:19like myself
00:13:20and from other disciplines.
00:13:22There's, there's multiple,
00:13:23there's many modes
00:13:24of intelligence,
00:13:25especially within the DoD.
00:13:26There's Mazant,
00:13:28there's Fizzant,
00:13:29there's Elant,
00:13:30there's Comet,
00:13:31there's cyber,
00:13:33there's open source
00:13:34intelligence.
00:13:36Mazant is measuring
00:13:37in area signals.
00:13:38Uh, Fizzant
00:13:39is telemetry intelligence.
00:13:41So, you know,
00:13:42a space shuttle
00:13:43will report back
00:13:44information
00:13:45to the ground station
00:13:46as it's ascending
00:13:47or a, or a plane
00:13:48will be giving
00:13:49information back
00:13:50to its ground station
00:13:51while it's maneuvering.
00:13:52Uh, it's the interception
00:13:53of that information.
00:13:55There's Elant,
00:13:55which is electronic
00:13:56intelligence
00:13:56going after, um,
00:13:58radars associating
00:14:00with, uh, aircraft
00:14:01or AAA batteries
00:14:02or early warning radars
00:14:04or fire control radars
00:14:05on, on ships
00:14:06or airplanes.
00:14:07Um,
00:14:08that interception
00:14:09of those signals
00:14:09and parsing it.
00:14:11Uh, I realized
00:14:11I said a bunch
00:14:12of, uh, uh, acronyms
00:14:13and didn't explain them.
00:14:14So now I'm explaining them.
00:14:15And there's
00:14:16open source intelligence.
00:14:17Uh, there's a variety
00:14:18of intelligence.
00:14:19So you'd have
00:14:19all of those people
00:14:20in the room
00:14:20who conduct those things
00:14:22and they'd say,
00:14:22what are the vulnerabilities?
00:14:24Um, you know,
00:14:25we've done a target
00:14:25analysis of this.
00:14:26What are the vulnerabilities
00:14:27or likely vectors
00:14:29that we can access?
00:14:30Um, and if you've
00:14:31got a budget,
00:14:31so, you know,
00:14:32what are some
00:14:33of the cheapest ways?
00:14:34The cheapest ways
00:14:35are always recruiting
00:14:35humans that work
00:14:36inside of the organization.
00:14:38So whether it's terrorists
00:14:39or government or-
00:14:40That's always cheaper
00:14:41than trying to hack
00:14:42the technology?
00:14:4395% of the time
00:14:44it's cheaper.
00:14:45It depends.
00:14:46Again, it depends
00:14:47on what technology
00:14:48we're going after.
00:14:49Um, if it's, uh,
00:14:51you know, a 3G Nokia
00:14:52in, in Iran, uh,
00:14:55that's an easy day.
00:14:56If it's a, uh, uh, you know,
00:14:59uh, let's see,
00:15:00what would be
00:15:01something very difficult?
00:15:02Um, a highly encrypted
00:15:03satellite communication network
00:15:05where you need to be
00:15:06in the physical footprint
00:15:07of the satellite lobe
00:15:08in order to do the collection.
00:15:10That's placement,
00:15:11that's access,
00:15:11that's money,
00:15:12that's recruiting,
00:15:12that's hacking,
00:15:13that's decryption.
00:15:14There's a bunch there.
00:15:15So it really depends
00:15:17on the nature of the target
00:15:18and the technology.
00:15:19Um, but, uh,
00:15:21generally inside of
00:15:23an organization,
00:15:24there will be people
00:15:24with loose morals
00:15:25and you can obviously
00:15:26often get a lot out of them
00:15:28for just paying them
00:15:2830 or 40 or 50 K
00:15:30or, you know,
00:15:31finding out someone
00:15:32who runs the security network
00:15:33whose daughter needs
00:15:34eye surgery
00:15:35or has macular degeneration.
00:15:37You bump into them
00:15:38at a coffee shop
00:15:39and strike up a conversation
00:15:40and I like what you like
00:15:41and establish rapport
00:15:43and then eventually
00:15:44you get to the point
00:15:45where you recruit them
00:15:45and then you pay them
00:15:46and then you get
00:15:47your information.
00:15:48That's more classic
00:15:48spy craft.
00:15:49Yes, exactly.
00:15:53So I was trained in that
00:15:54classically while I was
00:15:55in the military
00:15:55but it was in order
00:15:56to conduct
00:15:57forensic exploitation.
00:16:00Forensic exploitation.
00:16:02Yes, in support
00:16:03of these types of operations.
00:16:04What's that?
00:16:05What's forensic exploitation?
00:16:06You're handling a source
00:16:07and you're worried
00:16:08that he's not obeying
00:16:08your instructions
00:16:09so now you're going
00:16:10to pull the GPS
00:16:11or data from the phone
00:16:12to make sure
00:16:13that he drove there
00:16:14the way that you told him.
00:16:15Okay, so this is
00:16:16beginning to cross the two.
00:16:17This isn't just
00:16:18the human side.
00:16:19It's not just
00:16:19the technological side.
00:16:20It's signals,
00:16:21intelligence and computer
00:16:22network operations
00:16:24supporting the human
00:16:25intelligence targeting cycle.
00:16:27Wow, okay.
00:16:28Yeah, to ensure
00:16:28that assets are doing
00:16:29what they say
00:16:30that they do.
00:16:31Right, okay.
00:16:31Yeah, because there's
00:16:32layers and layers.
00:16:33There's what you want
00:16:33them to achieve
00:16:34technologically
00:16:35but then there's
00:16:35surveilling them
00:16:36to ensure
00:16:37that they're doing
00:16:37what you want them
00:16:38to do in order
00:16:38to achieve
00:16:39what you want them
00:16:40to achieve.
00:16:40And you don't want
00:16:41them showing up
00:16:41like they might be
00:16:42running late from work
00:16:43so they just take
00:16:43a direct beeline
00:16:44to your meet
00:16:46instead of conducting
00:16:47a surveillance detection route
00:16:48and now they've
00:16:49left their facility
00:16:50and they left
00:16:50with surveillance
00:16:51now their surveillance
00:16:52pulled them all the way
00:16:52to where you're
00:16:53doing your meet
00:16:53instead of doing
00:16:55the surveillance detection
00:16:55route and dumping
00:16:56the surveillance
00:16:57not dumping
00:16:57cataloging the surveillance
00:17:00and then not attending
00:17:01the meeting
00:17:01because you've got a tail.
00:17:02Wow, okay.
00:17:03What are
00:17:04some of the gnarliest
00:17:06exploits
00:17:07or information
00:17:09hacks
00:17:10that are publicly
00:17:11available
00:17:12and you can talk
00:17:12about
00:17:12but not enough
00:17:14people know about?
00:17:15I mean,
00:17:16Pegasus is probably
00:17:17the king
00:17:17of that.
00:17:19It's basically
00:17:20a persistent implant
00:17:22that lives on the phone
00:17:23that in its earliest
00:17:25iterations required
00:17:26you to click
00:17:26some type of link
00:17:27so there would be
00:17:28a phishing element
00:17:29to it
00:17:29where you're getting
00:17:30an email
00:17:31or you're getting
00:17:31a text
00:17:31where I might
00:17:33conduct some
00:17:35exploitation on your phone
00:17:36and figure out
00:17:36you text a lot
00:17:37with person A
00:17:37and then so now
00:17:39I'm going to
00:17:39use the network
00:17:43and send a message
00:17:44that's looking like
00:17:44it's coming
00:17:45from that person
00:17:45saying,
00:17:46hey, Chris,
00:17:46come and check
00:17:46this link out,
00:17:47blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:17:48It'd be innocuous
00:17:49or a website
00:17:49or something like that
00:17:50that it sends you to
00:17:51but then it would
00:17:52deliver some packets
00:17:52that would implant
00:17:53itself
00:17:53in a part
00:17:55of your telephone.
00:17:57That was specifically
00:17:57for iPhone,
00:17:59iOS?
00:17:59Yeah,
00:18:00but I believe
00:18:01it branched out
00:18:01since then.
00:18:02So Pegasus
00:18:02was post my military career
00:18:04so I didn't actually
00:18:05get to go
00:18:05and do the exploitation
00:18:07on it
00:18:07that I wanted
00:18:08to do on it
00:18:08or that I would
00:18:09have wanted
00:18:09to do on it.
00:18:10I read some papers.
00:18:11I talked to some friends
00:18:12who were still in
00:18:12and asked them about it
00:18:13but it lived
00:18:16in a different place
00:18:17on the phone
00:18:18than it would
00:18:20even stand up
00:18:20to a person
00:18:21like me
00:18:21doing a quick
00:18:22triage-natured
00:18:24forensics exploitation
00:18:25where I'd dump
00:18:25the phone
00:18:26and look through it.
00:18:27It was stored
00:18:27in a place
00:18:28where it wasn't
00:18:29obvious that you
00:18:30should be looking
00:18:30for any type
00:18:31of code there
00:18:32or malicious code there.
00:18:34Who made it?
00:18:35I believe it was
00:18:36made by the Israelis.
00:18:38I think that's
00:18:40common knowledge.
00:18:41That certainly
00:18:42was one of the most
00:18:43like holy shit
00:18:44these guys
00:18:45cracked a nut here.
00:18:46Say what you will
00:18:47about Israel.
00:18:48They certainly
00:18:49have their tradecraft
00:18:50and their military
00:18:51operation planning
00:18:52down well.
00:18:53Dude if you can
00:18:54blow the balls
00:18:54off 3,000
00:18:55enemy combatants
00:18:57at the same time
00:18:58using a pager.
00:18:59Oh man I wish
00:18:59I'd have been
00:19:00part of something
00:19:00like that.
00:19:01That would have
00:19:01been great.
00:19:02That kind of
00:19:03fell away
00:19:03that news story.
00:19:05It was I mean
00:19:05it happened
00:19:06everyone was
00:19:06interested in it
00:19:07but that to me
00:19:07seems like one
00:19:08of the most
00:19:08like insane
00:19:10They should make
00:19:10a movie about that.
00:19:11Precise.
00:19:12Yeah.
00:19:13Yeah.
00:19:14It would be
00:19:14just years
00:19:15of target development
00:19:16sourcing
00:19:17corporate espionage
00:19:19supply chain
00:19:20interdiction
00:19:20the amount of things
00:19:22that had to go
00:19:22into that
00:19:23to make that
00:19:24happen.
00:19:26You know just
00:19:26getting plastique
00:19:27or whatever they
00:19:28use inside of
00:19:29a you know
00:19:29a pager
00:19:30that's easy
00:19:31supply interdiction
00:19:33you know
00:19:33making it through
00:19:34this network
00:19:35paying off
00:19:35the right people
00:19:36delivery
00:19:37the patience
00:19:38to wait
00:19:38you know
00:19:39that they're
00:19:39with all of
00:19:40these people
00:19:40it's just
00:19:42you know
00:19:42that was a
00:19:43stroke of genius.
00:19:44Most people
00:19:44have no idea
00:19:45where their
00:19:46testosterone levels
00:19:47sit
00:19:47but what if
00:19:48I told you
00:19:48there was a
00:19:49solution
00:19:49something that
00:19:50identifies low T
00:19:51faster than a
00:19:52high school
00:19:53bully
00:19:53and it won't
00:19:54cost you all
00:19:55your lunch money.
00:19:55That's where
00:19:56Function comes in
00:19:56gives you access
00:19:57to over 160
00:19:58lab tests
00:19:59including a deep
00:20:00dive into your
00:20:00full hormone
00:20:01panel
00:20:01every result
00:20:03is reviewed
00:20:03by clinicians
00:20:04anything out
00:20:05of range
00:20:05is flagged
00:20:06and you get
00:20:06clear explanations
00:20:07with a
00:20:08personalized
00:20:08protocol
00:20:09with actionable
00:20:10next steps
00:20:11so if something's
00:20:12off you know
00:20:12exactly what to
00:20:13do about it
00:20:14whether you just
00:20:14need to go to
00:20:15the gym more
00:20:15or you need
00:20:17to play creed
00:20:17louder in your
00:20:18car
00:20:18Function will
00:20:19tell you exactly
00:20:20where your
00:20:20testosterone
00:20:20and everything
00:20:22else stands
00:20:22normally this
00:20:23level of testing
00:20:24would usually cost
00:20:24thousands but with
00:20:25Function it's
00:20:26365 dollars a year
00:20:27that's one dollar a
00:20:28day to stop
00:20:29guessing with your
00:20:30health and start
00:20:31knowing and right
00:20:32now you can get
00:20:3225 dollars off
00:20:33bringing it down
00:20:34to 340 bucks
00:20:36so get the exact
00:20:37same blood panels
00:20:38that I do and
00:20:39save 25 dollars
00:20:40by going to the
00:20:40link in the
00:20:41description below
00:20:42or heading to
00:20:42functionhealth.com
00:20:43slash modern
00:20:44wisdom using the
00:20:45code modern
00:20:46wisdom at
00:20:47checkout
00:20:47why were they
00:20:48using pages
00:20:49is that more
00:20:50secure somehow
00:20:50there there was
00:20:51they probably yeah
00:20:53they probably got
00:20:53the idea that
00:20:54smartphones are no
00:20:55longer secure
00:20:56so now we're
00:20:56going to go
00:20:57revert back to
00:20:58um which is
00:20:59actually you know
00:21:00throughout my time
00:21:01in the global war
00:21:01on terrorism
00:21:02that was definitely
00:21:03a thing that would
00:21:03happen like we'd
00:21:04nail down one type
00:21:05of technology
00:21:05we'd exploit it
00:21:06we'd kill a bunch
00:21:07of people and
00:21:08then they you
00:21:09know pivot to a
00:21:09different piece of
00:21:10technology or
00:21:11regress back to
00:21:12um you know
00:21:13something more
00:21:13primitive they did
00:21:14the same thing
00:21:15even with um
00:21:15ieds you know
00:21:17ieds started
00:21:18very primitively
00:21:19you know pressure
00:21:20sensors uh pressure
00:21:21triggers um you
00:21:22had to physically
00:21:23you know manipulate
00:21:24you know drive
00:21:25over something
00:21:26and then they
00:21:26got to command
00:21:27and detonated
00:21:28and then they
00:21:28got to using
00:21:29garage doors
00:21:30that were operating
00:21:30in a frequency
00:21:31band that the
00:21:32uh the initial
00:21:34magellans that
00:21:34we put out which
00:21:35were sensing the
00:21:36rf environment
00:21:37would tell you
00:21:37if there was
00:21:38something in the
00:21:38area and set
00:21:40it off so then
00:21:41they started using
00:21:41the garage door
00:21:42openers that
00:21:42were in a very
00:21:43low frequency
00:21:44band range that
00:21:45was outside of
00:21:45the magellans
00:21:46the magellans
00:21:46pivoted and
00:21:47then they went
00:21:47back to uh
00:21:49pressure
00:21:49pressure and
00:21:51or or running
00:21:52a wire up to
00:21:53a hotel room
00:21:53and sitting in
00:21:54the hotel room
00:21:54and waiting
00:21:55so you know
00:21:56like you said
00:21:57the free market
00:21:58can pivot
00:21:58and develop
00:21:59new technology
00:22:00and asymmetric
00:22:01warfare
00:22:02in asymmetric
00:22:03warfare
00:22:03the threat
00:22:04can pivot
00:22:04especially when
00:22:05you're dealing
00:22:05with somebody
00:22:06who doesn't
00:22:06wear a uniform
00:22:07and doesn't
00:22:07care about
00:22:08the law
00:22:08of geneva
00:22:08conventions
00:22:09they'll just
00:22:10go wherever
00:22:11they need
00:22:11to go
00:22:11to keep
00:22:11whatever
00:22:12is most
00:22:12effective
00:22:13yeah
00:22:13exactly
00:22:13uh this is
00:22:14what we saw
00:22:15in ukraine
00:22:16right with
00:22:16drones that
00:22:17uh $500 drone
00:22:20with a bit of
00:22:22plastic explosive
00:22:22yeah was able
00:22:23to find the
00:22:24weakness in this
00:22:25particular tank
00:22:26so then the
00:22:26tanks got
00:22:27webbed uh
00:22:29like uh frontage
00:22:31like prongs
00:22:32at the top
00:22:33so that they
00:22:33would get caught
00:22:34okay so we'll
00:22:35find a way
00:22:36to get around
00:22:36that
00:22:37uh so then
00:22:38emp blasts
00:22:39will be used
00:22:39to knock
00:22:40them out
00:22:40of the sky
00:22:41so then we'll
00:22:42run basically
00:22:42big fucking
00:22:43strings
00:22:44big cords
00:22:44yeah
00:22:45it's this
00:22:45rapidly evolving
00:22:47it's like that
00:22:48baseball game
00:22:49with the bat
00:22:50where you're
00:22:50putting hands
00:22:51over the top
00:22:51and then you know
00:22:52rochambo
00:22:53or whatever
00:22:53they used to
00:22:54call it
00:22:54it's the same
00:22:54thing
00:22:54you're just
00:22:55how can we
00:22:56pivot
00:22:56that's what
00:22:57the military
00:22:57and the government
00:22:58by and large
00:22:59is really bad
00:22:59at
00:23:00is pivoting
00:23:01and responding
00:23:01to pivoting
00:23:02because we're
00:23:02militaries that
00:23:03are built
00:23:03around symmetric
00:23:05threats
00:23:05we were thinking
00:23:06about the russians
00:23:06we were thinking
00:23:07about the chinese
00:23:07and you know
00:23:09that's you know
00:23:10geneva conventions
00:23:11law of land warfare
00:23:12you know there's
00:23:13certain gentleman
00:23:14rules that you'll
00:23:15obey and say
00:23:16we're not going
00:23:16to do we won't
00:23:17target civilians
00:23:17we won't target
00:23:18churches
00:23:18we won't target
00:23:19mosques
00:23:20we won't do
00:23:21these types
00:23:21of things
00:23:22and then you know
00:23:23terrorists
00:23:23just look at that
00:23:24and say oh
00:23:24they're showing us
00:23:25their weaknesses
00:23:26let's run
00:23:27all of our
00:23:27operations
00:23:28you know i just
00:23:28read a news report
00:23:29the other day
00:23:30about gaza
00:23:30using the hospitals
00:23:32as torture
00:23:33facilities
00:23:34um it was just
00:23:36like two or three
00:23:36days ago
00:23:37that's like me
00:23:38that's morbid
00:23:38yeah yeah so
00:23:39they're just
00:23:39overtaking these
00:23:40hospitals
00:23:41there was a
00:23:42book i brought
00:23:44the author on
00:23:44i wasn't ever
00:23:45able to actually
00:23:46release the episode
00:23:46but i brought
00:23:47an author on
00:23:48who had written
00:23:49a book that
00:23:50was about
00:23:50all of the
00:23:51intelligence
00:23:51failures of
00:23:52america
00:23:52oh and uh
00:23:54it was like a
00:23:55popular history
00:23:57book but it
00:23:58came up to
00:23:58pretty recent
00:23:59and when they
00:24:01did the
00:24:02sam bin laden
00:24:03raid
00:24:03they found the
00:24:04book on his
00:24:05bedside table
00:24:05and this guy
00:24:07was an old
00:24:08school british
00:24:09bloke
00:24:10and he
00:24:12immediately rang
00:24:14his publisher
00:24:14and said we
00:24:16need to put this
00:24:16on the front
00:24:17cover of the
00:24:17paperback release
00:24:18like so good
00:24:19osama bin laden
00:24:20had it on his
00:24:21bedside nightstand
00:24:22but yeah he
00:24:23he was using
00:24:24osama bin laden
00:24:25was using a
00:24:27popular history
00:24:28book about the
00:24:29failings of the
00:24:29american intelligence
00:24:31agencies and
00:24:32the rest of the
00:24:32right next to
00:24:33his avril levine
00:24:34cd yeah
00:24:35honestly yeah
00:24:36yeah and his
00:24:38bacon
00:24:38yeah we uh
00:24:39we we put a
00:24:40lot of that
00:24:40out there i
00:24:41mean um
00:24:42i i'm proud to
00:24:44say i worked in
00:24:44a lot of military
00:24:45organizations where
00:24:46none of the
00:24:47members have
00:24:48published books
00:24:48yet i'm
00:24:49anti-bloated
00:24:50government
00:24:51i'm like so
00:24:52against you
00:24:52know andy you
00:24:53mentioned at the
00:24:54beginning had me on
00:24:55his podcast and
00:24:56said if you you
00:24:56know if you're a
00:24:57dictator for the
00:24:58day how much
00:24:59you read would you
00:25:00reduce the federal
00:25:01government by and i
00:25:01said 80 and i just
00:25:03gave a long list of
00:25:04organizations that
00:25:05would just go
00:25:05away um there's
00:25:07it's just it's a
00:25:09self-licking ice
00:25:10cream cone that's
00:25:10it's only ends and
00:25:12means are to grow
00:25:13and to pull more
00:25:14purse strings for
00:25:16the majority of the
00:25:16time so
00:25:17it's been an
00:25:18interesting loop to
00:25:18watch um
00:25:19uh elon's arc
00:25:20over the last
00:25:21what like two
00:25:22years or so
00:25:22very much so
00:25:23as with doge
00:25:24right because i
00:25:25think it's
00:25:27this weird
00:25:28ouroboros eating
00:25:30itself of we
00:25:31shouldn't have
00:25:32trillionaires because
00:25:33they're able to
00:25:33evade tax we need
00:25:34to take more
00:25:35taxes a lot of
00:25:36rich people say i
00:25:38want to pay taxes i
00:25:39think the top like
00:25:40one percent of
00:25:42earners pay 30
00:25:42percent of the
00:25:43taxes already but
00:25:44the main concern of
00:25:46most rich high
00:25:48tax paying people
00:25:49is look at all of
00:25:51the fucking waste
00:25:52and fraud that
00:25:53this is being
00:25:53spent on and
00:25:54the guy that's
00:25:55paying the most
00:25:56tax was also the
00:25:56guy that was
00:25:57trying to remove
00:25:59some of the
00:25:59inefficiencies yes
00:26:00to be able to as
00:26:02opposed to pouring
00:26:03more into the top
00:26:05it's like let's make
00:26:06the system that
00:26:07spits it out the
00:26:08bottom more efficient
00:26:08so that we can
00:26:09actually get more
00:26:10of that we have
00:26:11some taxes going
00:26:12in lots of that's
00:26:13been wasted how can
00:26:15we make it more
00:26:15efficient i had um
00:26:17the uh cio the
00:26:21chief information
00:26:22officer for the
00:26:22treasury department
00:26:23uh sam corcos who
00:26:25founded levels i had
00:26:26him on the podcast
00:26:27last year and he's
00:26:28the it was the
00:26:29first long form
00:26:30interview that
00:26:30anybody from doge
00:26:31had done um at
00:26:32his level i think i
00:26:33saw that one great
00:26:34yeah but he's like
00:26:35dude it's fucking
00:26:36ancient yeah this
00:26:38entire organization
00:26:38is a big lumbering
00:26:40behemoth uh it
00:26:42leans left as
00:26:43well internally and
00:26:46it's not agile it's
00:26:47not able to be kept
00:26:48up to date and all
00:26:49of these systems is
00:26:50he's explaining it's
00:26:51like 16 intersecting
00:26:54different systems that
00:26:55need to well this
00:26:57type of information
00:26:58is held on this
00:26:59particular type of
00:26:59database and we
00:27:00need to do a look
00:27:01up request that
00:27:01comes across to
00:27:02this one so it's
00:27:03not one cookie it's
00:27:04not a big fuck
00:27:04off excel
00:27:05spreadsheet right
00:27:06right that just
00:27:06holds everything
00:27:07right it's this
00:27:08frankenstein's
00:27:09monster that's
00:27:10been like
00:27:11contorted over
00:27:12time to it
00:27:14functions it
00:27:15functions in as
00:27:16much as the
00:27:16country hasn't
00:27:17fallen apart and
00:27:18you're able to
00:27:19submit taxes and
00:27:20you're able to
00:27:20pay them but
00:27:21yeah it's um
00:27:22it's a mess
00:27:23it's a mess
00:27:24yeah it's my
00:27:25experience was my
00:27:26last job when i
00:27:27left the military
00:27:28was i was advising
00:27:29um a two-star
00:27:31general and a
00:27:33full-bird colonel
00:27:34who were in
00:27:34charge of all the
00:27:35offensive cyber
00:27:36development for the
00:27:37army so
00:27:38offensive cyber is
00:27:39hacking it's
00:27:39another term
00:27:40okay uh
00:27:41offensive cyber
00:27:41operations um
00:27:43offco is what we
00:27:44called it um
00:27:45they're they
00:27:47they recognize the
00:27:48ridiculousness of
00:27:49the program but
00:27:50all of these
00:27:51programs you get a
00:27:52budget for the
00:27:53year and if you
00:27:54don't execute the
00:27:54whole budget i've
00:27:55never seen a
00:27:57general get dressed
00:27:58down more than
00:28:00when i'd be sitting
00:28:00at the pentagon
00:28:01behind them and
00:28:02they hadn't
00:28:02executed the full
00:28:03budget there were
00:28:04these three guys and
00:28:05i can't remember
00:28:05their names but
00:28:06they sat in like
00:28:07what was the g357
00:28:08which is in
00:28:09top in charge of
00:28:09operations um
00:28:11training and
00:28:12sustainment or
00:28:13something like that
00:28:14but they were the
00:28:15ones who gave the
00:28:15money so they
00:28:16would say to
00:28:17general so and
00:28:18so here's your
00:28:18hundred billion
00:28:19dollars for this
00:28:20year if they
00:28:22executed only 99
00:28:23billion and there
00:28:24was a billion
00:28:24left over they
00:28:26were gonna get
00:28:26fired they
00:28:27hadn't spent
00:28:28every penny
00:28:29so the general
00:28:29or the the
00:28:30president puts out
00:28:31what's called the
00:28:31national intelligence
00:28:32priority framework
00:28:33which is the
00:28:34nipf covers
00:28:35here are the
00:28:35effects that i
00:28:36want the u.s
00:28:37military to have
00:28:38on the battlefield
00:28:38they need to be
00:28:39able to do these
00:28:40things and here
00:28:41are the peers and
00:28:41near peers in
00:28:42these areas and
00:28:43here are the
00:28:44countries that we
00:28:44don't want to go
00:28:45after so i would
00:28:46sit down with the
00:28:47with the general
00:28:47um after he got
00:28:49hit they would
00:28:49flow down to this
00:28:50general who's in
00:28:51charge of offensive
00:28:52cyber then we'd
00:28:53have these round
00:28:53tables where we
00:28:55would say you
00:28:55know in this area
00:28:56what can we go
00:28:57after um what
00:28:58product lines that
00:28:59we have that
00:29:00already support
00:29:00these efforts
00:29:01um uh which
00:29:02one of these
00:29:03can we not do
00:29:04or should we
00:29:04tell them that
00:29:05we'll either
00:29:05need more funding
00:29:06or it's not a
00:29:06vector that we
00:29:07should pursue
00:29:07at this time
00:29:08and we would
00:29:09go over all
00:29:09of those things
00:29:10and we would
00:29:11think that we
00:29:11got most of
00:29:12the budget
00:29:12program that
00:29:13was the sole
00:29:14thing that
00:29:14drove everything
00:29:15and this is
00:29:15the most
00:29:16frustrating part
00:29:16it really opened
00:29:17my eyes to
00:29:17government budget
00:29:18and money
00:29:19drove every
00:29:20everything it
00:29:21didn't even
00:29:21really matter
00:29:21if we were
00:29:22meeting the
00:29:23president's
00:29:23requirements
00:29:24as long as
00:29:25we got to
00:29:25say we as
00:29:26long as we
00:29:27could lie to
00:29:28a threshold
00:29:28that they
00:29:29wouldn't be
00:29:29able to
00:29:29figure out
00:29:30that we
00:29:31were executing
00:29:31the budget
00:29:32it just
00:29:33needed the
00:29:33money needed
00:29:34to be spent
00:29:34that was
00:29:34what it was
00:29:35all about
00:29:35espionage
00:29:37and subterfuge
00:29:37happening
00:29:38externally
00:29:39it's also
00:29:40happening
00:29:40internally
00:29:40yes
00:29:41and and
00:29:41and then
00:29:42when the
00:29:42money
00:29:42wouldn't get
00:29:42spent
00:29:43you would
00:29:43like
00:29:44every
00:29:44all the
00:29:45military
00:29:45guys
00:29:46would get
00:29:46and there's
00:29:47only a few
00:29:47in the
00:29:47organization
00:29:48it was
00:29:48mostly
00:29:48civilians
00:29:49um
00:29:50I'd say
00:29:5085%
00:29:51of it
00:29:51was
00:29:51civilians
00:29:52they would
00:29:53get pulled
00:29:53in
00:29:53and say
00:29:54look
00:29:54we've
00:29:54still
00:29:54got
00:29:55a hundred
00:29:55million
00:29:55dollars
00:29:55and
00:29:56it's
00:29:56it's
00:29:57July
00:29:57the budget's
00:29:58up in
00:29:58September
00:29:59where can
00:30:00we spend
00:30:00money
00:30:00right now
00:30:01and they'd
00:30:02just be
00:30:02like
00:30:03whatever course
00:30:03you want
00:30:03to go to
00:30:04chief go
00:30:04whatever thing
00:30:04you want
00:30:05to go to
00:30:05you want
00:30:06to go do
00:30:06that
00:30:06just spend
00:30:07it all
00:30:07and then
00:30:08when you
00:30:08executed
00:30:08the budget
00:30:09it was
00:30:09successful
00:30:10um
00:30:11but it
00:30:11never
00:30:11really
00:30:12like
00:30:12in my
00:30:13mind
00:30:13it was
00:30:13always
00:30:14if a
00:30:14general
00:30:14officer
00:30:15who's
00:30:15got
00:30:15a
00:30:15cadre
00:30:16of
00:30:16folks
00:30:16like
00:30:16myself
00:30:17who
00:30:17are
00:30:17experts
00:30:18in
00:30:18their
00:30:18fields
00:30:19say
00:30:19look
00:30:20we
00:30:20can
00:30:20achieve
00:30:20the
00:30:21effects
00:30:21the
00:30:21president's
00:30:22looking
00:30:22for
00:30:22for
00:30:2370%
00:30:23of the
00:30:24budget
00:30:24that
00:30:25to me
00:30:25is a
00:30:25promotion
00:30:26that
00:30:27you know
00:30:27we're
00:30:28getting
00:30:28the
00:30:28intended
00:30:28effects
00:30:29and
00:30:29we've
00:30:29done
00:30:29it
00:30:30with
00:30:30three
00:30:30quarters
00:30:30of
00:30:30the
00:30:30budget
00:30:31what
00:30:31do
00:30:31you
00:30:31think
00:30:31was
00:30:31being
00:30:31insinuated
00:30:32by
00:30:32someone
00:30:32not
00:30:33hitting
00:30:33budget
00:30:33that
00:30:33they
00:30:34basically
00:30:34fallen
00:30:34short
00:30:35and
00:30:35not
00:30:35tried
00:30:35as
00:30:35hard
00:30:36as
00:30:36they
00:30:36should
00:30:36have
00:30:36done
00:30:36yeah
00:30:36or
00:30:37you
00:30:37didn't
00:30:37know
00:30:37what
00:30:38you
00:30:38needed
00:30:38you
00:30:39you
00:30:40you
00:30:40you
00:30:40you
00:30:41asked
00:30:41for
00:30:41way
00:30:41more
00:30:42than
00:30:42you
00:30:42needed
00:30:42because
00:30:43the
00:30:43request
00:30:44for
00:30:44the
00:30:44budget
00:30:44was
00:30:44also
00:30:45done
00:30:45by
00:30:45the
00:30:45person
00:30:45that
00:30:46didn't
00:30:46spend
00:30:46it
00:30:46yeah
00:30:47yeah
00:30:47it's not
00:30:47like
00:30:47here is
00:30:48your budget
00:30:48it's
00:30:49here's
00:30:49what
00:30:49I
00:30:49want
00:30:50well
00:30:50here's
00:30:50what
00:30:50you
00:30:50asked
00:30:51for
00:30:51and
00:30:51I
00:30:51got
00:30:51you
00:30:51that
00:30:52right
00:30:52I
00:30:52went
00:30:52and
00:30:53stumped
00:30:53for
00:30:53you
00:30:53and
00:30:53I
00:30:54got
00:30:54you
00:30:54that
00:30:54from
00:30:54the
00:30:54secretary
00:30:55of
00:30:55defense
00:30:55and
00:30:56you
00:30:56didn't
00:30:56execute
00:30:56it
00:30:57now
00:30:57I
00:30:57gotta
00:30:57go
00:30:57tell
00:30:57them
00:30:57we
00:30:57got
00:30:58this
00:30:58money
00:30:58we
00:30:58can't
00:30:58spend
00:30:59you
00:30:59might
00:30:59not
00:30:59believe
00:31:00me
00:31:00but
00:31:00this
00:31:01is
00:31:02what
00:31:02peak
00:31:02sleep
00:31:03optimization
00:31:03looks
00:31:04like
00:31:04not
00:31:04talking
00:31:05about
00:31:05the
00:31:05night
00:31:05gown
00:31:06it's
00:31:06just
00:31:06for
00:31:06sex
00:31:06appeal
00:31:07I'm
00:31:07talking
00:31:08about
00:31:08my
00:31:08eight
00:31:08sleep
00:31:09the
00:31:09eight
00:31:09sleep
00:31:09pod
00:31:10five
00:31:10comes
00:31:10with
00:31:10a
00:31:10smart
00:31:11cover
00:31:11you
00:31:11throw
00:31:11in
00:31:11your
00:31:11mattress
00:31:12that
00:31:12actively
00:31:12cools
00:31:12or heats
00:31:13each
00:31:13side
00:31:13of the
00:31:14bed
00:31:14up to
00:31:1420
00:31:14degrees
00:31:15and
00:31:15now
00:31:15they've
00:31:16added
00:31:16the
00:31:16world's
00:31:16first
00:31:16temperature
00:31:17regulating
00:31:17duvet
00:31:18and
00:31:18pillowcase
00:31:19so
00:31:19you've
00:31:19got
00:31:19360
00:31:20degree
00:31:20coverage
00:31:21for
00:31:21deep
00:31:21uninterrupted
00:31:22rest
00:31:23it's
00:31:23like
00:31:23being
00:31:23Walt
00:31:24Disney
00:31:24without
00:31:24the
00:31:24cryogenic
00:31:25chamber
00:31:25and
00:31:27the
00:31:27racism
00:31:28best
00:31:28of all
00:31:28their
00:31:29autopilot
00:31:29feature
00:31:30learns
00:31:30your
00:31:30sleep
00:31:30patterns
00:31:31and
00:31:31makes
00:31:31adjustments
00:31:31to
00:31:31improve
00:31:32your
00:31:32sleep
00:31:32in
00:31:32real
00:31:32time
00:31:33it
00:31:33even
00:31:33detects
00:31:33when
00:31:33you're
00:31:34snoring
00:31:34and
00:31:34lift
00:31:34your
00:31:34head
00:31:35a
00:31:35few
00:31:35inches
00:31:35to
00:31:35help
00:31:36you
00:31:36breathe
00:31:36better
00:31:36that's
00:31:36why
00:31:368sleep
00:31:37has
00:31:37been
00:31:37clinically
00:31:38proven
00:31:38to
00:31:38add
00:31:39up
00:31:39to
00:31:39one
00:31:39hour
00:31:39of
00:31:40quality
00:31:40sleep
00:31:40per
00:31:40night
00:31:41they
00:31:41have
00:31:41a
00:31:4130
00:31:41day
00:31:41sleep
00:31:42trial
00:31:42so
00:31:42you
00:31:42can
00:31:42buy
00:31:42it
00:31:43and
00:31:43sleep
00:31:43on
00:31:43it
00:31:43for
00:31:4329
00:31:44nights
00:31:44if
00:31:44you
00:32:05Well, I mean, AI right now with, you know, the code generation piece is getting robust. I don't think it's as robust as everyone else thinks it is. I mean, it's very good. There's a lot of pluses to it. I'm obviously using it inside of our companies because it will, the mundane code or the less elegant code that's been written a million times over, you can generate very quickly. It can be integrated. Someone can review it in your GitHub. The branch gets committed and now you've got code that would have otherwise taken a week or two to develop.
00:32:35You get it developed in an hour. And in hacking, it's the same thing. Again, I've really been outside of hacking for probably three years now, four years. I was advising some friends on the side with like a small company where they would just, I'd be a good idea fairy. And they would tell me the targets and the networks that they were looking at. And then I'd recommend ideas or here's what you can do. Or, hey, that one uses HF comms. You know, you could sit and intercept these HF comms from this area. Go and do this.
00:33:04I would do that type of thing. But for the large part now, I'm running two and almost three companies now. I've largely gotten out of that space, but I would imagine it's the same thing.
00:33:14So what you would do is you would get a blob or like a technical dump of a particular device that you're targeting and you would feed it to an AI. And it's probably being done in the Pentagon right now, Anthropic or OpenAI or whatever. There's probably a hacking version of this. I would imagine. Like I said, I haven't been in there for a while.
00:33:34And you'd basically say, here's a router. Here's everything we know about it. Here's how it looks. Here's all the logic. Here's the hardware. Here's the firmware. Here's the software that runs on it. Tell me where the chinks in the arm are.
00:33:46Yeah. And so it's a, Hey, the IP tabling is messed up here. Um, they haven't patched that yet. Or they'd say this buffer can be overflowed and it will give you access. You can go here or on this network diagram that you pass me. Um, it looks like all of these are being, um, provisioned by the same IT guy. Um, and you have historical reporting that says he uses password, password for his passwords. You know, all of these things would be looked at.
00:34:12Jesus Christ. Um, and that, that target development cycle now would have been three to six months in the past or even a year or two, you know, we would get a phone and dump the phone. A phone would become popular in the Middle East. We'd dump the phone. We get the EL1 file, which is just the, you know, every, as much code as you can get on a phone. And we'd comb through it and look for the vulnerabilities that can be a year processed, you know, three to three months to a year easily to do that.
00:34:39Unless there's parts of the code that, you know, unless that the, you know, Apple 13, a lot of the same code exists in the 14, therefore the same exploits, or it hasn't been patched. A lot of that would be there. But when you're talking new phone or new architecture or new ecosystem, um, easily you can spend a year. And now I think there's probably a month of most people would spend on these things. And probably most of the work's getting done in the first three hours.
00:35:04AI-powered hacking. I would have guessed, you know, with some of the, some of the nightmares that we've seen over the last couple of years, uh, there was a few in retail in the UK. I would have guessed that AI-fueled hacking would have just like exposed all of these vulnerabilities.
00:35:21I'm sure it is. I'm sure it is.
00:35:22I don't know. I haven't heard many, many massive stories about it.
00:35:25I don't think you would hear a lot about it. Um, maybe, but I'm, I'm 100 because a lot of models. So this is a bit esoteric. It basically comes down to training data and power. A lot of the math and a lot of the algorithms that AI uses, or, or, or at least instant, the initial instantiations of it use were around since the seventies and the eighties. Like we knew the math behind a convolutional neuron.
00:35:40Or, or, or, or a long short-term memory, um, neural network, which is a derivative of a recurrent neural network. We knew a lot about how this stuff was going to work, but we lacked two things. We lacked the compute, which we got through like tensor processing units or GPUs. And we lacked training data, which we got through the internet.
00:35:58So, um, there's more to it, but largely those are the three things, the, uh, part of the awesome sauce for training and AI model. So there are people out there certainly who are going to be able to train their own models and use their own code repositories that they've generated for different exploits over time and train their own in their own.
00:36:27And train their own internal network on their own GPU and their own server and their own basement without any guardrails on it.
00:36:33Yeah. Yeah. They wouldn't. Yes. That certainly it's being done by organized crime right now. There's no way it's not being done.
00:36:38What are the most common things that organized crime are using hacking for?
00:36:42Uh, access to phones is a big one. Um, um, uh, uh, uh, banking, uh, stuff associated with Bitcoin, um, things associated with, uh, uh, they're embedding. There's a lot of it in bedding.
00:36:56What do intelligence operators understand about human behavior that most civilians don't do you think?
00:37:04So I'm not, I, so I'm trained in human intelligence. My human intelligence operations that I ran were usually to enable a separate part of an operation as I alluded to before.
00:37:14But that being said, I learned how to do car pickups, car drop-offs, uh, bumps, initiate, debrief, um, handle a source, all of those things. Um, but it was meant for a different aspect of the mission.
00:37:28I think that really, when you ask the question, what other people don't understand? I guess I would ask you back, what kind of other people? Because I think when you talk about somebody who's really been around the block, Rogan has a very deep understanding of people.
00:37:46I, I, sometimes he can quickly suss people out. Like, is this guy full of bullshit? Is this guy angling? Is this guy doing this? And I've seen it enough to where, um, it's a pattern I've now seen over the past few years where he's good, very good at figuring out who good people are and who shitty people are. He just has that tick.
00:38:03It's an interesting skill. I think I kind of become fascinated by rich and powerful men, uh, distorting reality around them, especially when you walk into a room, but when you get to very, very, very, yeah, that having spent some time around some pretty fucking powerful and influential people, when they walk into a room, the whole vibe of the room changes. People aren't just, people aren't unable to act normally around them.
00:38:30And then after a while, it would be like some weird version of Stockholm syndrome where you go, well, this is just what the world is. Everybody treats me in this sort of a way. Isn't that strange? And people can't hold it together.
00:38:42Yeah.
00:38:43When they're in the presence of somebody that they really admire, they've got loads of respect. Maybe they think that they can get something from them or they want them to like them. And, or this person is maybe the gateway between them and a thing that they think that they want.
00:38:55They're so powerful and rich and cool. And I want to be associated with them. Maybe we could be friends. And before you know it, you're the guy gobbling his words to a hot girl trying to hang with somebody in a comedy green room.
00:39:08Yes. And the reason I brought up Rogan was because especially in the military. Now, when I was dealing with the CIA or I was dealing with the DIA who have their own source recruitment divisions, everyone can go to the farm or everyone can go to in the military, the Fort Huachuca is where they run the courses there and learn how to recruit a source.
00:39:32And the 30% of people who can do it can do it to effect once they've learned the how. So the military breaks it down into a very rigored approach. And oftentimes the people that you're recruiting are people who have shown up to a base and said, hey, I think my brother's going to blow some car up or I think this X, Y, or Z.
00:39:51And then they'll say, oh, that person is a lead. Let's go recruit that person. And so most people can do that. Now, there's a separate class. There's categories of human intelligence sources. And those are derived from what their placement and access is. So, you know, a guy who is a gate guard at an IBM is like lower cat three, cat four, very low source, but he can give you access or he could get you a security card or he could get you X, Y, or Z.
00:40:18So there's value value. It's valuable. Um, you just pay that guy off. And then there's cat three, cat two, cat one, cat one sources would be like, I'm recruiting the secretary of defense for the, you know, British government or whatever you guys call him, defense secretary, defense, prime minister, whatever that person's called, I'm recruiting that guy. That's a level one source.
00:40:36So that level one source requires an artisan, somebody who really knows his craft and someone who can really create circumstances and understand a target. But he also, the reason I brought up Rogan is because they also have that thing where they can quickly deduce a person and put them down and understand exactly what motivates this person, have a very good idea of what motivates this person. Um, the tactics that they're going to use, how they're going to keep them interested. And they can do that with like a 15 minute conversation.
00:41:03Just an insanely strong theory of mind.
00:41:05Yes. And, and, and, and, and, and rigorous. It's, it's one of those things where you have to have the anima and the animus. You have to have the structure to follow the cycle.
00:41:15And you have to have the diligence and the patience and the, and the, and all of those virtues, because deviating from the cycle that's been around for a thousand years will get you killed. But then he's also got to have the artistry or the anima to be able to navigate the chaos and, and get thrown all different types of punches or this thing happens, or he gets rolled up at a checkpoint, or he is now getting recruited and this has turned into a CI operation.
00:41:41And to navigate all of those things, you need somebody who's got real command of their total self, who can, who can deal with the rigor and apply all of that, but then play jazz when it's needed.
00:41:51Yeah.
00:41:51And then have the wisdom, uh, to do all of those things that I talked about. And most guys at that point are at 40 or 45 before they have that. But man, this, these guys, you know, you get three of these guys, you can take over a country.
00:42:03Uh, you know, you said about cat four, cat three, cat two, cat one, cat one would be super, super high value target. Yep.
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00:43:22I was thinking about how serial killers seem to not have proliferated in the same way, largely because of forensics, DNA, fingerprinting, digital tracking.
00:43:37Do you think it's likely now? Do you think it is less likely that cat one people of interest are going to be turned for the same reason that it's less likely that there are long standing serial killers that they are realizing I'm probably going to get caught.
00:43:56There's more of a digital footprint. It's hard.
00:43:58I think that up just now while we were talking. That's interesting.
00:44:02You know the analogy I'm trying to make there?
00:44:05Yeah. No, I totally understand it. It's just great.
00:44:07Like I would, I've only been thinking about what's happening right here and I haven't, my, my CPU is limited.
00:44:13Okay. So I'm not, I can't go.
00:44:15I've got, I've got low processing power, but very high RAM.
00:44:20Very good.
00:44:21Um, I, I think, so you would certainly handling cat one, it has gotten more restricted, but then what ends up happening or having to change is you have to handle your cover differently.
00:44:35So all of these operations you're in cover when you're running these operations. And so the cover now needs to become, instead of a guy I met at a bar, um, you're going to set up a new company in this country, adjacent to whatever sector this person's in, become the CEO of that company. And the government will spend a ton of money setting that, setting that up.
00:44:55Okay. So you're not, you're not turning people that are already there. You're creating people that are going to become it.
00:45:00Yes. Or, or you're, or you're, you're say, say you're in charge of a, let's just run a thought experiment or a hypothetical. Say you're in charge of a new type of, um, GPU development company in Abu Dhabi. Um, and I want to recruit you.
00:45:15So in the past it might've been, we became good friends from a bar and we, you know, we, your girlfriend knew my girlfriend and we went out and here's all this happened. And then when you're, you know, the Chinese are buying your GPUs, which is why I'm going after you.
00:45:29I want to cut off the head of the dragon here and not give the Chinese access to your GPUs. And I want you to sell them to the Americans. Let's say that's what's going on.
00:45:37The Chinese would come in and say, Hey, who the fuck's this Bill Thompson guy? How much do you know about him? Blah, blah, blah, blah. They'll be so proactive because they'll be watching you.
00:45:45If you're a critical supply choke point for them, they will have been watching you from day one before they even start selling for buying from you. They'll know your ins and outs.
00:45:54That's what happens when you deal with the Chinese. Um, and so they'll know all of this. So they'll go to you and you'll get a meeting with someone. Someone will show up at your office and be like, Hey, I'm so-and-so from so-and-so.
00:46:05You deal with the government, the communist, you know, people's Republic of China. Um, we've noticed you've been hanging out with this bill guy. You know, you need to shut that. Like, what is his story? He just showed up. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:46:17So now how this changes is because we can't change the technical vectors and the collection capabilities and all of those things. So how this would change is instead of it happening and we're friends because of girlfriends, I will go into that country and set up either competitive or adjacent technology.
00:46:34Hmm. Fully funded by the U S government through cutouts and other things and, and either be on the chief of staff or staff or whatever. And we'll, I'll make my product that you need slightly cheaper. Maybe it's a transistor or something like that. You'll come to me to say, Hey, I've noticed that you're selling this microchip here for half the cost.
00:46:52I need some. I'll be like, Oh, great. Yeah. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Now I've got, uh, what's called cover for action and cover for status. And so when the Chinese come to you be like, well, yeah, I'm buying it from him. He runs this company and this company has got a cheaper one. And that allows me to make it cheaper for you. So the Chinese are cool. You're cool. And now I'm over here.
00:47:09More sophisticated cover.
00:47:10Yeah. So far more backstopped is what it's called.
00:47:13More backstopped. Right.
00:47:14Yes.
00:47:15Who do you think is the most surveilled human on the planet?
00:47:19Elon Musk. I'd probably say.
00:47:22At least there, there's a laundry list of people that I would want to recruit and he would be one of them.
00:47:29Who else would be on it?
00:47:31Uh, some of them I know, so I don't want to say their names. Um, who else would I be going on?
00:47:38I mean, an interesting list that you're going to give us of people who you don't know.
00:47:40Yeah. Who I don't know. Um, uh, let's see. Uh, family of Trump would be another one I would be looking at.
00:47:47It's a big fucking family.
00:47:49Yeah. It's a big fucking family.
00:47:50Um, I would be, you think anybody in the tech sector. It also depends on, you're asking me this, who am I recruiting for?
00:47:57You know, if I'm recruiting for the Chinese, that would be one set of people. If I'm recruiting for the Russian, that'd be another set of people.
00:48:02Original, original question was just like, of all humans on the planet, 7 billion, whatever it is now, 8 billion. Uh, who has got the most amount of eyeballs looking at them digitally?
00:48:17Yeah. So as you restate that I actually realize I'm wrong. I'd probably want to recruit people who work for Elon. I wouldn't want to recruit Elon.
00:48:24I'd want to recruit someone close to him because I talked about accessibility being one of the vectors when you're doing a target profile.
00:48:30So inaccessible.
00:48:31Very inaccessible. Even if I'm friends with him, he's inaccessible. I would never be able to get him to show up for a meet, like to debrief him or to get any information from him.
00:48:37Um, so you'd want to recruit someone around them. And that's the same thing, you know, that's the thing that's always kind of, um, made me scratch my head about Epstein.
00:48:45Um, uh, I would never, I would never want, you know, people brought up Clinton and saying Clinton's now associated with Epstein.
00:48:54I'm sure there were nefarious, crazy things going on over there. Clinton's not a person I'd ever want to recruit. Clinton would be a nightmare of a target to try to manage or a source to try to manage. He's not someone you recruit. He's also not someone you leverage.
00:49:09You could maybe Epstein being an idiot, wanted to set up all of these things and use them as leverage against them. That might be one play. But as far as saying like Israel's involved and like these things possible.
00:49:20One of the most interesting ideas I've heard about Epstein was, uh, a friend who spoke to somebody in Israeli intelligence and he, this guy said, do you know how fucking insulting it is that people say that we would have recruited that guy.
00:49:38Yes.
00:49:39After he was already popped.
00:49:41Yes.
00:49:42For soliciting sex from a minor.
00:49:44Horrible. Yeah.
00:49:45Um, and, uh, that was the, I don't know the Epstein rabbit hole goes so fucking deep.
00:49:51Oh no, don't get me wrong. It's so there's a lot going on.
00:49:53Very squirrely. And that would be great cover. The fact that he's so obvious is to not be a normal standard candidate for being an intelligence operative would maybe be great cover for why he might.
00:50:04But, uh, it was like, how unsophisticated and ungraceful do you think we are that we would recruit that guy? This very flash, very lavish, very public facing dude.
00:50:20And what are you going to recruit him with? He's rich. Anything that you would use to incentivize.
00:50:24The argument would be that the, the money wasn't his, that the money had come from them.
00:50:28Oh, that's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. Um, it's just.
00:50:31Still, it's an interesting, it's an interesting argument and it makes sense when, um, this guy's obviously a fed or this guy's glowing or whatever, uh, the, like how glowy somebody looks is probably proportionate to how visible they are too.
00:50:48Like if somebody is very visible, they're going to get more accusations of being whatever controlled opposition or a fed, whatever, but you go, would you really want that person?
00:50:59No, it's the best argument. I have no fucking idea whether Nick Fuentes is a fed or not, but it's the best argument for why Nick would be a horrible candidate.
00:51:07It's like, do you want someone that's being watched by hundreds of thousands of people a day? Like, is that, that's your guy? Although Anderson Cooper was that rolled up. So this is the thing, man, for every example, there's a counter example. Fuck it. Nick Fuentes is a fed.
00:51:23It all depends on what you can. It all depends on what you get from them. I think, I mean, if I had to, I'll put it this way. If I had to place money, he's getting money from Israel.
00:51:30Nick.
00:51:31If I had to bet, I would say he's getting money from Israel.
00:51:33Why?
00:51:34It's raw, man.
00:51:35It's raw, man. This helps them in so many ways to have people like him running around that he might not know he's getting money from them, but you need enemies. It's kind of like racism.
00:51:46Who was funded the most of the KKK and who shows up in the chat rooms when the KKK is having a meeting?
00:51:52I don't know.
00:51:53The federal government.
00:51:54Okay. Why?
00:51:56Because they need an enemy. They need a straw man. They prop up. There's no white supremacy is like real white supremacists. Yeah.
00:52:03There are some out in like rural Alabama or something like that. But as far as like tens of thousands, like they would lead us to believe in all of these things. Most times when you look into these things, there was fed involvement.
00:52:14Like even again, January 6th, very hot topic. There were feds in that audience that were that, you know, look, going back to the Gulf of Tonkin. Anytime we needed motivation to use government money, taxpayer money to launch an operation to achieve an effect.
00:52:32The government's almost always involved in every part of the nexus when it comes to certain things.
00:52:35I need to, just before you keep going, can you just pop that on for me, please?
00:52:39What is this for?
00:52:40This, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's when you're, it's when you're pushing out into the deeper recesses of, of theorizing.
00:52:46It's a, it's a, I mean, I, I would have imagined as a intelligence agency, uh, person that you would have understood what this is.
00:52:54It's a disguise bill.
00:52:56Yeah.
00:52:57Go on.
00:52:58Lots of these things.
00:52:59When you look, when you really get down to the nitty gritty, the government's, this is so ridiculous.
00:53:04The government's so involved in most of these things.
00:53:07And lots of times here's the way the FBI will look at something.
00:53:11We've got a whole division that's focused on, uh, on, on, I can't even think.
00:53:17Right.
00:53:18All right.
00:53:19We've got a whole, we've got a whole division that's focused on threats to the homeland.
00:53:23And 25% of this budget is for white supremacy.
00:53:28The Biden administration will throw a hundred or $2 million, a hundred or $200 million at countering white supremacy.
00:53:34Okay.
00:53:35So that he gets to go out and have talking points.
00:53:36But then the FBI gets on the ground and they're like, there's really no white supremacy.
00:53:39So then the FBI, I'll be like, Hey, and I'm not saying this is happening now, but this certainly happened back in the day.
00:53:44I know it ha it happened back in the day.
00:53:47There would be a KKK meeting either on the dark web or on, on the white web or open web or in an area or whatever.
00:53:5660% of the people showing up would be feds.
00:53:58Why?
00:53:59Because they have a whole division and all of these jobs are organized around defeating white supremacy.
00:54:06And if you can't find white supremacy, it's like Al Sharpton.
00:54:09Al Sharpton made his bones on helping black people back in the day.
00:54:13But once racism in the nineties washed up, he had to go searching for racism in order to keep his stick going.
00:54:19Um, that's the problem with government is that they create their self-legging ice cream cones and that they create the incentive structure.
00:54:26But once they've won, they can't go away.
00:54:29None of these guys are getting, none of these useful idiots will get rid of their jobs.
00:54:32They're going to go out and create the thing they were developed to counter in order to keep the purse strings going.
00:54:38A lot of people have this same issue with big pharma.
00:54:41Yes.
00:54:42Yes.
00:54:43It's the same.
00:54:44Keep you fat.
00:54:45It's the same dynamic.
00:54:46Big pharma wants you taking type two diabetes shots in your stomach or whatever you have to do for type two diabetes.
00:54:51They won't tell you to fast.
00:54:53They won't tell you to lose weight.
00:54:55You've got heart problems or cholesterol problems.
00:54:57They're not going to tell you to lose weight and go on a clean diet.
00:55:00They're going to give you statins.
00:55:01The interesting thing here is, uh, just changing the incentives or coming up with a better solution.
00:55:07Like this is why it's cool and noble.
00:55:10And I love when people want to kind of flip the entire system over, but I don't think that it's as realistic as just coming up with a better alternative that aligns the incentives toward what you want.
00:55:21For instance, Ozempic plays within the rules of big pharma, but gets the outcome that you want, which is preferable, right?
00:55:31It realizes that, Hey, maybe we can try and take down these greedy corporations that are trying to capitalize on people's bad health so that they can keep them addicted or dependent on medications.
00:55:45Roger that.
00:55:46Roger that.
00:55:47However, if you can just get a medication that gets the outcome that you want, that has minimal side effects through using innovation, you indoctrinate because big pharma doesn't care about what the outcome is, what they care about.
00:55:59Presumably using this.
00:56:01If this is true that they care about its profits.
00:56:03Okay.
00:56:04So just that's their rule set.
00:56:06Yeah.
00:56:07How can you get them to continue to make profits whilst also making people healthier or helping people to lose weight?
00:56:16Yeah.
00:56:17The long-term studies on all these GLPs and stuff aren't out yet, but that to me seems like a much, a much quicker way to do it.
00:56:25But as you've said that this sort of intersecting fucking endless spiral of, well, this thing that you thought happened, maybe didn't happen for that reason.
00:56:35It happened to be an example to push back against so that it can keep people in a job, so that it can permit expansions of power, so that it can increase budgets, so that there is still the opportunity for people culturally to nudge society in one direction or another.
00:56:55This is why I think I'm not very conspiratorial.
00:57:00I'm very interested in-
00:57:01I don't consider myself one either.
00:57:03Qui bono.
00:57:04The reason that I find it interesting to be around my friends, but also sometimes it's quite fatiguing to me, my more conspiratorially minded friends, is what I'm left with is not more certainty.
00:57:20It's just more like apathy.
00:57:22Yeah.
00:57:23I go, I don't know what the fuck to think, dude.
00:57:26Yeah.
00:57:27I actually don't know what the fuck to think.
00:57:29Every incident that occurs, you can make an equal and opposite case for it being legitimate or not, or a, you know, fourth wave Trojan horse, you know, triple agent that actually started.
00:57:46I'm like, I just, I have no idea what, I have no idea what.
00:57:49What do I do with this information?
00:57:50Yeah.
00:57:51And I think that that, even that could be the outcome.
00:57:55Yeah.
00:57:56The desired outcome could be confusion and apathy.
00:57:58Yes.
00:57:59So even the matter of this entire situation is, look, we can't convince people of any one narrative because there's too much information out there.
00:58:05Flood the system with more information and make them so confused that they have no conviction as opposed to some conviction in a direction that we actually don't want.
00:58:13Yeah.
00:58:14Yeah.
00:58:15Yeah.
00:58:16And, and I mean, you're saying they always designed the means and I'm not conspiratorial.
00:58:18I I'm not a cyclops.
00:58:19There's good and bad to everything.
00:58:21Just like you said, with the GLPs, obviously if you're 400 pounds and, and you've got all of these snoring problems, you can't sleep, your chest is caving in on you.
00:58:29You've got diabetes, you're going to lose your left foot.
00:58:31You've got all of these things going on.
00:58:33Obviously get on a GLP one.
00:58:36If you can't beat the food addiction, like go and do it and then get healthy, but then learn how to deal with food after you do that.
00:58:42But for sure, that's good that you're getting thin again and that you can sleep at night or that you can make love to your wife or that you can, you know, play sports with your kids.
00:58:51Like all of those things are the net good is there.
00:58:54Right.
00:58:55Um, even if they said GLP one's less than your lifespan by five years, it's like, okay, if I'm 35 and 600 pounds, I've only got five years left.
00:59:03So like, obviously there, um, there's black and white to everything.
00:59:07There are good aspects of government.
00:59:08Don't get me wrong.
00:59:09Um, it's just that the, the bad is far outgrown the good.
00:59:13Um, obviously there's good things that got government.
00:59:16We need roads.
00:59:17We need a military.
00:59:18We need, um, interstate commerce.
00:59:20Well, you know, all of the things that the articles of confederation were designed and why we revamped it with the constitution, there's goodness there.
00:59:28Um, but the founder's intent was always for the government to be constrained and for the, you know, individual rights would be paramount in this, in these institutions, freedom of speech, um, all of those things.
00:59:40Um, and, and the government has just way overstepped their bounds in every way.
00:59:44Um, and so I, I could go down that whole thing and I won't do it to you unless you want to.
00:59:49Um, but it's just, it's grown so much and it's become part of our lives where you can't buy a toilet in here or a light bulb without the federal government approving it.
00:59:57That's patently ridiculous.
00:59:58Um, you know, you, there's, they're, they're, they're in everything and they're, they're taxed.
01:00:03They tax everything.
01:00:04When you make your money, when you spend your money, when you save your money, when you die, every aspect of your life is overtaxed.
01:00:10And, uh, you know, I, I, I, I guess if I'm anything, I'm a constitutionalist and I think the founders would be revolting if they saw what this government was today.
01:00:18Um, I think they would say, Hey, you boys better grab your muskets.
01:00:21Like this is ridiculous.
01:00:22Said as a guy who both him and his wife were incredibly embroiled in being close to the government for a very long time.
01:00:30Yes.
01:00:31Yeah.
01:00:32Yeah.
01:00:33I mean, I, I didn't, I joined the military to get out of North Dakota.
01:00:35Like I said, my father died when I was five.
01:00:37My mother was an alcoholic.
01:00:38She became a waitress.
01:00:39I lived in a trailer home.
01:00:40My older, when I joined the military, my older younger brother were in jail.
01:00:44Well, one was in boys ranch, which was like jail.
01:00:46My older one was in jail.
01:00:48My two older sisters, one got addicted to drugs later and died.
01:00:52And one was addicted to drugs when I joined the military.
01:00:54And my mother was still battling alcoholism.
01:00:57Like she would vacillate between.
01:00:58All I wanted to do was get the hell out of North Dakota.
01:01:01Like whatever.
01:01:01I'm not a farmer and the only people that can make it there are farmers.
01:01:05And otherwise you're addicted to meth.
01:01:07Methamphetamines are a huge problem there.
01:01:08Um, or you're working in the support industry for farmers.
01:01:11And I just knew that none of this was for me.
01:01:13So when I saw the military recruiter, I saw the girls looked at them.
01:01:16I saw, you know, purpose and meaning.
01:01:19I always, I, when I don't have purpose and meaning, I have anxiety and depression.
01:01:23Those are the two things that fill the void.
01:01:25Um, and I saw the military as my wife.
01:01:27I saw the military as my way out.
01:01:28And, uh, it's only in this country that my story is even, uh, even approximately possible.
01:01:35Even like getting close to this story being possible, um, is only in this country and we owe so much to it.
01:01:40But when I joined, it was to get out of North Dakota.
01:01:42When I reenlisted, it was to preserve the American experiment and everything that undergirds it.
01:01:47Um, I really relisted and stayed in because I started reading, you know, Montesquieu and John Locke and Cicero and, and, um, the, the Federalist papers and the stories of our founding.
01:02:00And sorry to say we had to battle, you know, England, but you're an American citizen now, aren't you?
01:02:04No, no, I'm still on a visa, but I've also still got a plus four, four phone number.
01:02:08So you'll take my taxes, but not my area code.
01:02:10Well, anyway, all of these things were bought with blood and treasure.
01:02:14And when I reenlisted, it was to, it was to preserve the experiment and that I believed in the experiment.
01:02:19I believe is the greatest experiment ever ran in, in history.
01:02:22Um, and in 250 years, we have, you know, the great one of the, we had one of the greatest economies.
01:02:27We, technology, culture, um, you know, wisdom, all of these things, um, is only popular and is only possible in this kind of country.
01:02:36And, you know, that's why I stayed in the military and I love it.
01:02:39And that's why I'm trying to preserve these things now with the companies that I'm building now and what I'm doing going forward.
01:02:43Is because I, I, I, I bet on the individual.
01:02:47I bet on families.
01:02:48I bet on freedom of choice.
01:02:49When people are left to their devices to make decisions, they'll be engaged in far better work with more meaning than any government could bestow upon them, um, in any other way.
01:02:58If you're trying to go from Joey Chestnut to Joey Swole, the RP Strength app is the best place to start.
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01:03:54That's rpstrength.com/modernwisdom and modernwisdom at checkout.
01:03:58Can you take me through what your app does?
01:04:01Have you got it on your phone?
01:04:02Oh, yeah.
01:04:03So, um, my, my, uh, co-founder, um, co-founders were like, Hey, you were on Rogan.
01:04:09You didn't mention her app until the very end.
01:04:10And I was like, sorry, I don't think about those things until it's time.
01:04:14So the app, the app is called Spartan Forge.
01:04:17Um, again, uh, there's, there's many things.
01:04:21God, there's so much into this.
01:04:22Um, I wanted people to get outdoors.
01:04:25And, and I did this work while I was in the military.
01:04:28So while I was in the military, I was, you know, essentially my job was variable analysis for commanders.
01:04:34Uh, the commanders have a goal to kill bad guy.
01:04:37Hunters have a goal, a goal, harvest meat, have an experience with their son.
01:04:41Initiation rights, I think is something that this country is in desperate need of.
01:04:45Hunting is a useful vector for initiation rights between a father and a son.
01:04:48Like you've killed a deer now today.
01:04:50I treat you like a man.
01:04:51Baptism by the river.
01:04:52You're 16.
01:04:53Now you're a dude.
01:04:54Uh, hunters, people hunt for all kinds of reasons.
01:04:57And so when I was leading the military, I had anxiety and depression because I didn't know what I was going to do when I got out.
01:05:02Like I got paid to kill and break things or to break things so that other guys could kill bad guys who were trying to harm our country.
01:05:09And I, you know, got to, you know, had a blank check to just prosecute war.
01:05:15And I had a great amount of meaning from it.
01:05:18And, you know, I did, looking back on the Iraq war, I wish we were never there, but certainly Afghanistan, the work I did in Africa, the work I did in the Southern Philippines, we were killing bad guys.
01:05:28And, um, people that would have killed us if we didn't kill them.
01:05:32Um, and, uh, in most cases.
01:05:34And I was getting all this anxiety and I said, what am I going to do when I get out?
01:05:37Like, how can I, I want to keep having this meaning.
01:05:40If I lose this, I'm going to die.
01:05:42Like I'm going to become an alcoholic.
01:05:43Like I said, I'm the only one in my family that wasn't addicted to drugs or alcohol.
01:05:47And I could feel the alcohol calling me like, Hey, I got something for you.
01:05:51So I said, what am I going to do when I get out?
01:05:54And I was a hunter and I'd been bow hunting for a few years.
01:05:56And I thought, really, these are just target analysis problems.
01:05:59A hunter and, and, and military guys have, they have variable analysis that they need to understand a target better so they can prosecute the target.
01:06:07Hunters are in the same way.
01:06:08So my company Spartan Forge that I started, um, the first problem.
01:06:12The first product that we released was a, um, uh, a neural network that did, um, deer movement prediction, which sounds kind of cliche, but hunters only have so much time off.
01:06:22So the first thing we built in this area was just a neural network that used collar GPS data from deer.
01:06:28So biologists, universities, private people would collar deer and they would let them run and they'd learn things about fawn recruitment or how many were getting killed by wolves, how they move, where they move, why they move.
01:06:39We took that data and we started building neural networks to predict movement.
01:06:42And out of that, we got a few thousand users.
01:06:44And then I started looking to mapping pro program or mapping platforms after we had a few thousand users.
01:06:49And I really just wanted to focus on machine learning.
01:06:51Cause there's so much I can do in machine learning in the, in the hunting space.
01:06:55I'd never really wanted to get into mapping, but then there are these huge, you know, a couple of multi hundred million dollar corporations that are in the hunting and mapping space.
01:07:05And I met with them and they were really offering me like, it sounds like a lot of money, but like a half million dollars for like six or eight years of work.
01:07:12And I was like, look, I could go to work for Accenture next week and make that a year.
01:07:16Like that's not what I'm trying to do here.
01:07:18A, I'm trying to demystify the woods and B, I want to get people into the woods and C, I think neural networks, machine learning, artificial intelligence, mapping geospatial intelligence is going to be a huge player in this space.
01:07:30So all of them kind of just said they did this was 2015.
01:07:35So they were like hearing AI and they had no idea what AI was.
01:07:38So, um, anyway, we, we said, I said, look, the hard parts, the machine learning, the hard parts, the neural networks.
01:07:44The hard part is the geospatial intelligence, building a map box map and putting it in an app is not the hard part, which is what all these guys really are.
01:07:51At the end of the day is they're a map box map inside of a, so we built this Spartan forge.
01:07:56Um, we've got like LIDAR high resolution imagery.
01:07:59Like the imagery is five centimeter imagery.
01:08:01Jesus fucking Christ.
01:08:02Uh, so you can see like better than Google maps.
01:08:05Oh, it's far better than a hundred times better than Google maps.
01:08:07Um, you can see down in the ground.
01:08:09Is that, that's as far as you can go.
01:08:10Can you go further?
01:08:11I can go further.
01:08:12And then I can go back in time too.
01:08:14I can go back to.
01:08:15Where have you taken this data from?
01:08:17So we contracted with, um, an air, a company that runs airplanes.
01:08:21And, uh, we go in with a couple of other companies that are in like soil and mineral rights, real estate, other places.
01:08:27Um, there's a solar company.
01:08:29They need high resolution imagery of the tops of houses so they can measure it for solar.
01:08:34Like people knock on your door, try to sell you solar.
01:08:36Anyway, we were throwing a bunch of money with them and they collect this highly, highly, um, like, uh, high resolution imagery that we have that goes back in time.
01:08:44Wow.
01:08:45So we do all of that.
01:08:46And then we have LIDAR data.
01:08:48I'll, I'll make this really short, but LIDAR data and other things.
01:08:51So you can get a visual understanding of the ground where it rips away the trees.
01:08:54So what you can do is this is mapped using light data, similar to how a radar works.
01:09:01Um, then you can throw it into like a 3d and my service is kind of weak right now, but once the service gets up, it, you, you can, um, see paths under the ground.
01:09:13Like during the hurricane in North Carolina, we gave a bunch of accounts to the first responders and they were trying to get to houses that had been washed out and the roads were washed out.
01:09:22But they were able to use our app to find paths that were used for logging trails in order to get to the back of these people place, these people's houses and deliver them like diabetes medication, um, oxygen.
01:09:32If they were on like a, uh, emphysema machine.
01:09:34Fuck me.
01:09:35And then we had this, we have this capability called blue forest tracker where you can set up pins.
01:09:41So when there were roads washed out, they were using it.
01:09:43And so hunters can use it the same way when they're organizing hunts, they can drop pins and everyone sees them.
01:09:47They get the high resolution imagery, they get the LIDAR, they get the historical imagery, they get the neural networks.
01:09:52Then we have our own neural network that we call cyber scout.
01:09:55So if you had never shot that bow that I gave you before, you could sit down with cyber scout and say, Hey, I need to tune this bow.
01:10:00Here's the type of bow.
01:10:01How do I do it?
01:10:02And that walks you through all of those things far better than like a chat GPT would or other ones would because all of our training data is solely focused on hunting and best in class information on hunting.
01:10:13Neural networks often regress to the mean by giving you the broad spectrum of the internet.
01:10:17So you'll get some bad and some good data.
01:10:19We are retrieval documents that we use are all sourced from the highest caliber of hunting information.
01:10:25So, um, cyber scout and soon they'll be interacting with your maps.
01:10:29So it'll tell you how to hunt an area, how to do all of those things.
01:10:32Um, but yeah, we started this company in like, uh, 2017, we got our first mobile app in 2021.
01:10:38And then we, uh, um, uh, you know, in the app store right now, I think we're like number 14 in mapping or an outdoor or something like that, you know, hundreds of thousands of users.
01:10:50Um, and really all of it was born out of just really just kind of my first principles as a human, which are the tribe's important.
01:10:58Friends are important, get out into the wilderness, disconnect and get things.
01:11:02Paradoxically, I'm using an app to do that.
01:11:04But the reason I'm using an app to do that is because people have so little vacation, so little time.
01:11:09They want to hunt public land in, in Pennsylvania and they live in Texas.
01:11:14Like they can go up, they can scout through my app.
01:11:16They can understand things.
01:11:17They can drill down.
01:11:18They can use a high resolution imagery.
01:11:19They can do all that stuff and at least have an idea of what the ground looks like before they get there.
01:11:24So that they can download an offline map and get disconnected and go out there and create some, you know, my favorite time as a CEO is on our social media.
01:11:32A father and a son will message me and say, we've been targeting this buck for like three years.
01:11:37We'd never saw it.
01:11:38This white tail buck.
01:11:39And my son and I were using your app.
01:11:41We use the neural network.
01:11:42We use the prediction.
01:11:43We use a high quality mapping and we figured out a spot.
01:11:46We got in there and we killed a deer and there's a father and a son holding a buck together that they're going to eat dinner over or, you know, put on a wall and make a permanent memory.
01:11:55That is my favorite part of running this one company is that experience right there.
01:12:00It's just people going out and reconnecting with nature and being in it, but also buying down risk.
01:12:05And like I said, paradoxically through an app, but you can drop pins and tell your wife where you're going to hunt.
01:12:10And if you're offline, if you fall from a tree stand or whatever, break your legs, they'll know where to send the people to go and help you out or on all of that type of stuff.
01:12:19So, you know.
01:12:20Jesus fucking Christ.
01:12:21You're kind of a terrifying human.
01:12:22I'm very glad you were on our side.
01:12:24What do you mean?
01:12:25Just this, like five centimeter map data.
01:12:29Oh, by the way, also, I'm able to basically be Q from James Bond for a bunch of like scary guys.
01:12:34Oh, also, by the way, I can probably download your phone data and work out whether there's some vulnerability.
01:12:39Oh, also, by the way, like, I'm glad that you're on.
01:12:41I'm glad you're on our side.
01:12:42Well, I thank you.
01:12:43Whenever people ask me for like the 32nd job of who I am or what I did in the military, I would often use the Q thing.
01:12:49I'm not James Bond, but I built cool shit for people like James Bond.
01:12:53And that was that's a very accurate summation of my military career.
01:12:57I never kicked the door.
01:12:58I was never intentionally in a gunfight.
01:13:01I was never the guy at the tip of the spear.
01:13:03I was the girthy part of the staff that was supporting the head of the spear.
01:13:08I mean, if I was the girthy part of the staff is not the way to end this episode.
01:13:13I don't know what is, but I'm sorry.
01:13:15You fucking rule, man.
01:13:16Why should people go to check out?
01:13:17Spartanforge.ai is our website.
01:13:20You can sign up there or you can download us through the app store.
01:13:24We're on Instagram.
01:13:25I said this on Rogan's podcast and I did regret it, but I'll say it here too.
01:13:30When you have questions about the app or complaints or gripes, I as the product owner, I see that as my bigger role than CEO.
01:13:37I answer all of the social media every morning.
01:13:39I spend about two hours.
01:13:40So when people say I wish the app did this or it didn't do this or I didn't like this or hey, we did this hunt, you're dealing with me.
01:13:46Now, if you have a problem that needs a technical solution, I'll usually farm that off to our QA team, but otherwise you're dealing with me.
01:13:53So you got questions about the app.
01:13:55You don't know how to get into bow hunting and you want to get into it.
01:13:57Um, you want to learn through our cyber scout or through our app, how to be a better hunter.
01:14:01Jared, can you quickly grab the gift that I got today from outside just while we're winding?
01:14:06Yeah.
01:14:06So they can find me there and I'm happy to interact with people.
01:14:09After I did Rogan, I think I had 3,500 messages of people and it took me about a month.
01:14:14You're a fucking glutton for punishment.
01:14:15It took me about a month and a half.
01:14:16You should work for Zendesk.
01:14:18You know, that could be your new, you know, I could go and work for Accenture and do the whatever, whatever.
01:14:23Uh, I got to say thank you as well, man.
01:14:25Like this gift that you got me is so fucking huge.
01:14:30Hoyt and Archery Country and Dialed Archery made that possible.
01:14:33They're all friends of mine.
01:14:34The guys at Hoyt, Tom from Hoyt's amazing.
01:14:37Um, my buddy, Tyler, I think you've met Tyler from Archery Country.
01:14:40Um, and, and, and Dialed Archery, my friends, um, uh, uh, Taylor and Jordan run that, you know, American made and, um, great companies.
01:14:51And, uh, I work with all of them and, uh, I, I was, I was so upset because I thought, oh, he doesn't look like he has a bow.
01:14:57And then, so I got all ordered all this stuff, got it all put together.
01:15:00And we're going to go tune you up with this at Archery Country.
01:15:02And then like three days ago, I saw a post where you had a bow.
01:15:04Got a bow, but this is, you can never have too many bows as I've been reliably told by Cam Haynes.
01:15:09Dude, you're awesome.
01:15:10I appreciate you very much.
01:15:11Thank you for having me on.
01:15:12I look forward to firing this, this sucker with you soon.
01:15:15Awesome.
01:15:16All right.
01:15:16Goodbye, everyone.
01:15:17Dude.
01:15:18Yes.
01:15:19Lovely.
01:15:20Good.
01:15:21Thank you very much for tuning in.
01:15:23If you enjoyed that episode, another one that I know you'll love, it's just here.
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