Transcript
00:00:00You're a diagnosed sociopath. You also say that you're the most manipulative person I'll ever meet
00:00:05and you can lie better than anybody. Why should I believe anything that you're about to tell me?
00:00:11Well, I don't have a lot to lose by lying. People know who I am. People know that I can manipulate
00:00:18in many different ways. It's just an idea of, I understand that you're a certain type of person
00:00:25and I know how to work every type of person, but I can verify my diagnosis through independent
00:00:31sources like Business Insider. Why should I believe anything you're going to tell me over the next
00:00:36couple of hours? Why wouldn't you just manipulate your way through the entire conversation?
00:00:40Because I'm lifting the mask, okay? I'm lifting the mask. I did it before. I'm going to do it again.
00:00:45I'm going to give you raw and unfiltered and then you can just cut out whatever you don't like.
00:00:50That sounds good to me. Should I be scared of you?
00:00:52Absolutely not. I'm five for one. What am I going to do?
00:00:58That's fair. That's fair. Okay. So what is a sociopath? What's your specific diagnosis?
00:01:02So I've been diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder as well as narcissistic personality disorder
00:01:08and I fit the profile, my psychiatrist says, of a factor one psychopath because psychopathy actually
00:01:15comes from narcissism. So the glibness, the superficial charm, the ability to essentially go from one job,
00:01:22to another, being able to pathologically lie, all of those and being very grandiose.
00:01:28They're all very narcissistic traits. So that's where psychopath diverges into factor one and factor two.
00:01:37Factor one is primary psychopathy. So that's basically your engine running.
00:01:42Factor two is you're causing a lot of problems to society. It's like the more anti-societal norm
00:01:49behavior. So it's like, you know, being a truant, stealing, lying to people, committing crimes that
00:01:56would put you in prison, all of the reckless stuff that we tend to do. So I lean more onto the factor
00:02:03one because I've had a brain scan and my amygdala does not light up. It just doesn't. So I, I, I know
00:02:13what people are feeling. I just will never feel it. And I know how to mimic an accurate response,
00:02:19something that they would want to see. Like if someone's just died, right? My friend died last
00:02:25week. I just, I can cry on command. So I can just go to the funeral and cry.
00:02:31You seem distraught about it.
00:02:32Oh, I am. I only knew her for about four years.
00:02:38That's kind of long for a lot of people. Friendship's long-ish. Okay. Talk to me about
00:02:43the DSM. Sociopath isn't a diagnosis. It's more a colloquial term for antisocial personality disorder.
00:02:52I wanted to explain that because everyone keeps getting at me like,
00:02:55"Sysopath isn't a real thing." Or "I thought you were a sociopath and now you're
00:02:58a psychopath." Okay. So antisocial personality disorder is one of the basis of psychopathy factor
00:03:04one and factor two. So factor one completely lacks anxiety and has no fear response, which is me.
00:03:10Factor two is they do get a lot of anxiety. They get, um, very violent. They're very aggressive.
00:03:17They do not have a conscience. They are unable to feel guilt for anything that they've done,
00:03:23but they are hot tempered. Whereas I'm cold, essentially. I can plan over months and months
00:03:28if I'm trying to achieve something. They, if you said for factor two, if you just say something that
00:03:34they find offensive, they will blow up. They will- More impulsive. Yeah. Way more impulsive,
00:03:39way more chaotic, more likely to go to prison. Interesting. More dangerous or less dangerous?
00:03:46It depends. Cause a factor one psychopath, let's say, I don't know, a good representation would be
00:03:53Hannibal Lecter. Like he, I think he's a bit of a threat, but then- Sort of more chilling than terrifying.
00:04:01Yeah, exactly. So factor one is chilling. Factor two is this guy's going to set me on fire right now.
00:04:07What about the antisocial personality disorder? What's that consistent?
00:04:09So antisocial, it, the basic traits that you need is like a lack of remorse, lack of guilt, lack of empathy.
00:04:15Um, being, having antisocial crimes, so anti-societal norms. So this can include hurting animals,
00:04:24hurting children, hurting other people around you. That sort of, those are sort of the hallmarks of
00:04:31antisocial personality. And then when you combine antisocial and narcissistic and put them together,
00:04:37you get either a malignant narcissist or the kind of psychopath that will absolutely ruin your life.
00:04:45What was childhood like for you?
00:04:49Uh, it was fine. Uh, I used to witness a lot of domestic violence. So, uh, my father was
00:04:56aggressive towards my mother and my brother. I was never treated badly by my dad. He bought me
00:05:03anything I wanted. He essentially never said no to me. Like we had just flown to Australia from New Zealand
00:05:10and I was five or so. And I said, I wanted a specific Barbie doll and he walked three kilometers to go get
00:05:16it. Even though it was jet lagged, you know, it was like, cause we had to pack up all our stuff and move.
00:05:21And so that was something that I had. Um, my mom would beat the shit out of me though, because
00:05:27So dad beat mom and mom beat you.
00:05:29Yes. But I didn't mind because it's like, that's the kind of discipline that I think I needed.
00:05:35Cause I was a menace. I was an absolute menace. I was a truant. I used to lie. I used to steal.
00:05:40I used to physically harm people. Um, I used to harm other children as well. Mostly my age.
00:05:47Like I pushed a girl down the stairs and she broke her leg in three different places. Um,
00:05:52and then I got her suspended because I said that she made a racist claim, which she,
00:05:57she didn't, but she, she was, uh, the kind of person who you could believe would say something like that.
00:06:04So, um, yeah. So pretty early on I had conduct disorder and I had callous and emotional traits.
00:06:15Um, that's, I guess that's why I got the antisocial personality disorder.
00:06:19It kind of is a precursor to that. Um, but I would say in terms of the rest of my childhood,
00:06:26I also had thalassemia. So it's a blood disorder where my bone marrow can't produce its own red blood
00:06:32cells. So I have to get transfusions every three to four weeks. And so because of that,
00:06:37I got so much attention constantly, like people were always around me, making me, making sure that
00:06:43I was feeling good, you know, not sick. It's kind of center of attention, not necessarily
00:06:48for a reason that you want, but you still get a lot of attention. And then also because of that,
00:06:53um, also on top of that, I should say is I did child modeling. So I got a lot of validation from
00:06:59there too. So I always got validation from everyone around me, just not for the things,
00:07:06but it was always for the things that I do, not me as a human. So I feel like that kind of shaped
00:07:12how I saw things and how I made everything very transactional.
00:07:16When did you realize that you were different?
00:07:19Probably four or five.
00:07:22What did that look like?
00:07:24It was just that I couldn't understand why people looked so happy and how they could be friends with
00:07:29each other. And they didn't really do anything. Like I couldn't understand what was so attractive
00:07:34about a person and wanting to be their friend. I was, I was sort of forced to deal with other people.
00:07:40Like at my, I think it was my fourth birthday or my third birthday. Um, I had a friend who was a really
00:07:46fat girl and I told my mom, like, do not let her ride my new Barbie bike and she's too fat and it will
00:07:52break. And she let her use the Barbie bike and it broke. So I'm just saying, but outside of that,
00:07:59I was like, how are people like, how do people react like normally to things? How, like, what's wrong
00:08:04with me? It just, it started to crystallize more around like, I think 10, 11. It just felt like
00:08:10there's like this glass between a, a wall of glass between me and other people that I can watch you.
00:08:18I can observe you. I can study what you do. I can see what's successful about you and I will emulate
00:08:24that, but I will never feel it. Like I will never understand what proper, I guess, guilt feels like.
00:08:32I won't feel what remorse feels like. I don't, I've never had anxiety a day in my life.
00:08:39What have you come to believe about whether sociopaths are born or made?
00:08:44So I believe that factor one psychopaths are actually born and factor two psychopaths. I know
00:08:52they tend to say factor one is psychopath, factor two is sociopath, but that's inaccurate terming.
00:08:58For factor two, I would say that's being made. You're being made.
00:09:02Why?
00:09:02Because that's after an abuse. It's usually during an abusive home life. So they experience all of the,
00:09:11like the volatility, they experienced domestic violence. They see that this is the way to get
00:09:17power in life is to have physical strength and full control over another person. And it's, it's,
00:09:23it's so overwhelming for them and they turn to violent crimes because of that. And I think with
00:09:29both of us, like both factor one, both factor two, they, we have equal levels of loneliness.
00:09:35So we sort of channel it a little bit differently to them.
00:09:39Is there a history of mental illness or anything in your family?
00:09:42I would say my paternal side is extremely psychopathic. I know on my mom's side,
00:09:47there's one person who-
00:09:49Is there anyone worse than you?
00:09:50Yeah. Um, okay. So this is a pretty dark story, but okay. So my aunt, when she was 17,
00:09:59she had premarital sex with a guy who promised to marry her. And then he refused to marry her. And
00:10:07because she had been tarnished, uh, they weren't very happy with her in the family. So she was found
00:10:15burned on a stove. She had third degree burns all over her body. And she asked for a red sari to be
00:10:22buried, like not buried, but in, when she was in the hospital fighting for her life, she asked for a
00:10:26red sari because she believed like she was going to get to marry the guy that she slept with.
00:10:31What's a red sari, sorry?
00:10:32So you'd wear that at your wedding, you know, a sari, like the Indian. Yeah. And so, yeah,
00:10:36she asked for that. And I asked my dad, like, cause I didn't even know this happened because-
00:10:41Burned on a stove.
00:10:42Yeah. Her head was put on the stove and then they put kerosene on her as well for the rest.
00:10:47Who did?
00:10:48My grandfather.
00:10:51Because she'd had sex before marriage?
00:10:52Yeah. And he refused to marry her. Yeah. So she's tarnished.
00:10:57Did she survive?
00:10:58No, she's dead. I didn't know she existed. Like I saw a photo of four little kids in my dad's,
00:11:05like, there's like this old box that he has. And I was like, okay, but you have two siblings. Who
00:11:10are these other ones? Like, which one's you? He's like, no, that's Raju and that's baby. And
00:11:15baby was the one who was killed and she was only 17. Raju died from, I think some sort of kidney problem.
00:11:22Okay. Yeah. That might be a little bit of a history.
00:11:24Yeah. And then on my mom's side, this one's crazy. So my uncle, he got married five times,
00:11:32different women, swindled all of them, took all of their money, took all of their happiness and sanity.
00:11:39And then he ended up, um, selling my grandparents' home, which is worth a lot, a lot to, um, three
00:11:47different people. So he took the money from three different people and he fled to America. So
00:11:55if he ever goes back onto Indian soil, he will be arrested.
00:12:00Five women, swindled all of them, sold the house.
00:12:03Yeah. And now he's married to his childhood sweetheart.
00:12:08Look, you can't have a happy ending apparently after all of that. Uh,
00:12:13what, what do you think it was like for your parents growing up with you?
00:12:18My mom used to call me Shetan, which is Satan in Hindi.
00:12:23Okay. Yeah. Um,
00:12:24Everyone's got to have a cute nickname, I suppose.
00:12:30I guess. Yeah. Um, yeah. So she, she called me Shetan. They had problems with me early on because
00:12:38I was like attacking other children. And so they were like, oh, what's wrong with you? And I'm like,
00:12:45I don't know if I knew I wouldn't be in this position.
00:12:47What did that look like?
00:12:48It was just, I guess, cause I've, I've hurt other children. So I've, it's not always like
00:12:56something you can discuss, but I would say it's more like, apart from pushing the girl down the
00:13:02stairs. Like I've burnt people, like I've done some things and my parents had to cover for me a lot.
00:13:10So that was a problem. But because I did so well academically, the teachers would always side with
00:13:16me. Everything was like, kind of copacetic for me. And yeah. But my mom used to call me Satan.
00:13:25My dad said, my dad calls me Gria, which means little doll. And, uh, so I got like unending
00:13:32affection from my dad. Cause my first word was Papa and yeah. So do you think that there's something
00:13:39around the tension between dad seemingly being coddling and enabling and mom being the disciplinarian
00:13:46that created a bit more tension? Yeah. I'd say so. Because
00:13:50anytime I would cry or cause like any stress in the family, my dad would always, always take my side.
00:13:57And that would mean that he'd have a fight with my mom. And so I, I guess I weaponized that a lot.
00:14:04So it kind of created a triangulation that I didn't know was a thing back then. Cause like, I'm like,
00:14:10I don't know, seven, eight, nine. When did this get most extreme or intense? Because
00:14:16I don't know, you haven't walked in here at least yet. You haven't attacked anybody or burnt anyone or,
00:14:21you know, there, it seems to me you're now married. You got a husband who's come with you.
00:14:30That seems relatively domesticated compared with the person that we're hearing about from childhood.
00:14:35Yes.
00:14:36Yes. If you sort of tracking over time, when the most intensity of this.
00:14:44Rage.
00:14:45Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Talk me, talk me through the timeline of sort of where that got to and
00:14:49where it fell off.
00:14:50Absolutely. So I would say the worst worst was in my teenage to early twenties. So I stole from people,
00:14:57including my parents. I was very violent in my high school. I would cause like, uh, not only physical damage,
00:15:06I used to push this girl off her stool every morning and the stools were pretty high. They're
00:15:10up like here in the science lab. And so I would knock her down every single day and her legs were
00:15:14super bruised. Um, I would also end up like, I, I guess sabotaging friends who I thought were getting
00:15:22more success than me, or I'd get very, very angry if someone said that I wasn't as intelligent as I
00:15:29knew I was because of my scores. So that would result in like fist fights and pulling people's hair out.
00:15:35But as you've said, you're five foot one.
00:15:37I know, but I would have been smaller back then.
00:15:39Back then, no, I've been five foot one since I was like 12.
00:15:41Okay. All right, cool. Yeah.
00:15:42Yeah. Yeah. But luckily other women are easily like other female children, uh, easy to neutralize
00:15:49when you, you know what to go for. If you go for the eyes, if you go for the throat, if you go to
00:15:53certain areas of the body, it's like, no matter what your size is.
00:15:56You sound like the New, the New Zealand Bass Rutten, if you know who that is, the guy from the
00:16:01fucking UFC. Go on.
00:16:02Yeah, that's brilliant. Um, so that was bad. But then in my early twenties, it was like fraud.
00:16:09I would steal people's credit cards. I would go like have a competition with my friend who I believe
00:16:16also has anti-social personality to see what we could take from different stores. Um, and there was
00:16:22actually a fair bit. There was, I was pretty awful to people. Like I would break up with them on their
00:16:29birthdays, um, create, uh, like create drama in terms of smearing their character because I know
00:16:37how to do that very well, but because I was like sort of shifting a little bit because I was seeing
00:16:43a psychiatrist. So when I got diagnosed, like, do you want to know about that?
00:16:47Yes.
00:16:48Okay. So I got diagnosed at 21 and this was after I tried to kill myself because I tried
00:16:54to kill myself because I was getting migraines every day and I was thinking, I don't want to live
00:16:58with this kind of pain daily. So, and the doctors weren't taking me seriously. My GP told me to stop
00:17:03calling. My neurologist said it wasn't a big deal. And I'm like, yeah, it's not a big deal for you,
00:17:07bro. You're not dealing with it. And so I was like, okay, fuck it. I'm going. So I took the pills,
00:17:13woke up in hospital, realized I'd failed. Um, disappointed about that.
00:17:17What did you do? What did you try and do?
00:17:19I took 15 in-depth pills. So 15 amitriptyline, which really is actually lethal. So I don't know
00:17:24what happened. Um, and so I woke up and they said, do you want to be in a, in an inpatient facility,
00:17:32or do you want to go outpatient? And I was like, yeah, outpatient. I'm not going to live in that
00:17:36house. I'm sorry. And so when I went, I was evaluated for over 16 months by a forensic psychiatrist.
00:17:43I've actually been on TV with him. Um, and he told me that I had antisocial personality disorder.
00:17:48He told me I had narcissistic personality disorder. He would talk about ways because,
00:17:53oh yes, I forgot to say, he also worked in prisons. So he would try to discourage me from criminal
00:17:59activity because he would tell me specific stories about the women that, and what they get treated like
00:18:06in there, in that prison. So he's like, you will, he didn't try to do it from a moralistic
00:18:11place. He did it from, you're going to suffer. You're going to have-
00:18:14For a utilitarian.
00:18:16Yes. Utilitarian. That's exactly the word. That's exactly how he talked to me. And like,
00:18:21talking to him probably made me a bit more glib, a bit better at like creating charm.
00:18:26Why?
00:18:27Because he would teach me ways of talking to people that were kind of new to me. So I
00:18:32would weaponize that sort of language and mimic sort of, I'm very good at mimicking people. So I'm
00:18:38good at mirroring. I'm good at giving the right responses. And he kind of taught me some of the
00:18:42right responses that I didn't already know.
00:18:44So what he's trying to do is explain to you the situation, explain your diagnosis to this person
00:18:50who's 21 years old and has been dealing with this for as long as she can remember. But what he's
00:18:55actually doing is laying out a blueprint of how other people operate, which you then take and use.
00:19:00Exactly. And use specific language to do it. So that was really helpful.
00:19:05But like, what specific language?
00:19:07So, you know, if someone's going through something like, or you're going through some
00:19:12severe pain in your life, just being able to say, I understand what you're doing. I like,
00:19:18I feel it really badly. I can't believe this is happening to you. You mean so much to me.
00:19:23And then just the tears. And yeah, that would be generally what I do.
00:19:28Do you know the idea of a pea zombie? Have you heard of this?
00:19:30No, I haven't.
00:19:31A philosophical zombie. So it's a thought experiment. I think people kind of accuse AI
00:19:36of being this too. It's able to do all of the things. Imagine you had a human that looks like a
00:19:41human, walks and talks like a human and makes all of the actions and responds that way,
00:19:46but there's nothing. There's no motivation going in inside. That's not quite the same
00:19:51because there are motivations. It's just the reason for the motivations are more contrived
00:19:55with you, but it is kind of pea zombie adjacent.
00:19:58Yeah, a little bit, that actually makes sense.
00:20:00Uh, okay. What emotions do you feel?
00:20:03I feel all emotions, except for like, I don't think empathy counts as an emotion. So I would say the
00:20:10fleeting emotions are like joy, happiness, being proud of myself. Um, anything positive is very long,
00:20:18a lot. Anything positive is very short lived. Everything negative, like rage, like, uh, contempt,
00:20:27uh, anything along the lines of anger that stays for a while, which is really frustrating because it's
00:20:34like, why couldn't you give me more of the good stuff? Like, why am I feeling the bad stuff?
00:20:38Why is there not psychopathy for positive emotions? Yeah. Well, it's just people walking
00:20:42around in bliss all the time. Yeah. And the problem is it's like two different areas of the brain.
00:20:49So one is like, yeah, you should feel all the time. And one's like, I'll give you five seconds of like
00:20:54a good time today. And it's like, why are you doing this to me? Tell me if this sounds familiar. You train
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00:21:57So you feel all emotions, but you skew toward negative? Unfortunately, yeah.
00:22:02And not just, it sounds not so much, is it depressive negative or like active negative?
00:22:09No, no. So I do like experience depression, if you will. But for me, it's no profound sadness.
00:22:15It's a completely flat feeling of having nothing. And you just consume so much time, like volumes of time, and you don't even know what you've done with it. And so it's like you kind of just flound up.
00:22:25And that lasts for a while, unfortunately. So I really don't like that. I can't handle boredom at all.
00:22:33You said you don't think that empathy is an emotion.
00:22:36No.
00:22:36But something like guilt, I think, would almost certainly, I think almost certainly guilt has to be.
00:22:43The reason that guilt exists is to identify, it's a self-identifier from your system to tell you
00:22:51that there is an imbalance in the ledger between you and something else or somebody else that I have
00:22:59taken too much from this situation. You could imagine why in a tribe this would be needed, that
00:23:04you need to ensure that everybody else sees you in a positive manner. And if you're the person that's
00:23:09always taking from the food and never giving it, you should feel guilt because it's an early warning
00:23:13sign that, hey, other people are not going to like you at some point in future, which is where the
00:23:17transactional stuff comes from. But for you, guilt-
00:23:19That's so interesting. I actually didn't know that. So the way I see guilt, it's a social
00:23:25conditioning emotion that is generally useless. Because what can I do about things I've done 20 years ago?
00:23:34Am I going to go say sorry and just going to fix it? No, it's not. I guess that's why I've burnt a lot of
00:23:40bridges. But it's just something that I don't feel. It's like, I live in the present. If it's not in
00:23:46the present, it doesn't matter.
00:23:48Well, you say that you live in the present, but a lot of time is being spent maybe planning
00:23:54and concocting ways to get back at people. That's living in the future to a degree.
00:23:58That is, yeah. Okay. So I've been asked that before. So basically what I do is in my everyday
00:24:05life, I have interactions with people on a daily basis. I coach a lot of people. They want to be
00:24:11ruthless, so they somehow come to me. And so they come to me and they make me less emotional. So at
00:24:18that time, I'm telling them exactly how I feel and what I do. But in terms of if someone has wronged me,
00:24:24that stays lodged in my head until it is taken care of. So there was a group of 1200 women on Reddit
00:24:32who were posting images of my racist. They said I should get raped again. They gave my address
00:24:40to the racist. They would comment on every single thing that was wrong with me about my appearance,
00:24:46which was wild stuff. So when I found out certain people were in that group, I realized that justice
00:24:54needs to be served. So I intend to ruin one of their birthdays every single year. So far,
00:25:00I've ruined three years. What have you done?
00:25:02I sent a pig's head to her door. I sent the police for a welfare check. I sent a mariachi band to come at
00:25:086am. I sent the Jehovah's Witnesses, and I will next time be sending the Mormons.
00:25:15Well, that's the worst one of all, by far.
00:25:20She was shocked by the pig on that, I'm not gonna lie.
00:25:22You've said that you-
00:25:23Oh, sorry. Go ahead.
00:25:24And I don't know if you watched The Help, but Minnie makes a very specific pie for her old boss.
00:25:34And let's just say there's fecal matter in there. Luckily, it was outsourced because I couldn't do
00:25:40something like that, but that was delivered to her house and I hope she ate it.
00:25:45And this is one person?
00:25:46Yes.
00:25:47And this was the leader of this Reddit group that you say was an attack on you of some kind.
00:25:53What was their issue with you?
00:25:55I think it was just, I don't know, there was leaked video or something, not video, audio,
00:26:02and it wasn't legitimate. It was just a string of my words put together from different clips.
00:26:07And they're like, "Oh, she's such a bigot. Oh, she's such a piece of shit." All of that stuff.
00:26:11What were they accusing you of having sex?
00:26:13Racism.
00:26:13Right, okay.
00:26:14Yeah.
00:26:14Okay.
00:26:16And what's your heritage? Indian?
00:26:17Indian.
00:26:18Right.
00:26:18Yeah. I was like, I didn't say that. I've never said that.
00:26:22Interesting.
00:26:22Yeah. And then also, because Sam had made some posts on Twitter-
00:26:26This is your husband?
00:26:27Yeah.
00:26:27Yep.
00:26:28He made posts on Twitter about Virginia Dufres, and he was just making, showing-
00:26:33Jeffrey Epstein posts.
00:26:34Yeah.
00:26:34Yep.
00:26:35He was showing some inconsistencies in the stories all, and then they blame me for that. So I was
00:26:42meant to be like the fall guy or something. I don't know. Like they decided I was the proxy,
00:26:47I would be attacked constantly.
00:26:50Are they still around? I mean, we got the Reddit thing taken down, which is great, but-
00:26:54What else from an emotion standpoint is interesting? I'm aware that a lot of this to you must be
00:27:03like me talking about what it's like to be Harry Potter the wizard, that it's very hypothetical,
00:27:07right? Yeah.
00:27:07But I imagine that you've spent a good bit of time thinking about, not just so that you can
00:27:12manipulate other people, but so that you can function in the world, at least remotely well,
00:27:18what the difference is between your experience and other people's. How else, what are the other big
00:27:22differences you think between sort of how you go through a day in terms of feeling things?
00:27:27Yeah. Emotions, operating.
00:27:29So most things I don't feel very heavily. So if something happens and it's a great thing,
00:27:35like, I don't know, doing a podcast with you, I'd be like afterwards, damn, that was fun. Or like,
00:27:40damn, that's going to be cool when it comes out. That'll last for about 20 minutes. And then I'll see
00:27:47someone like say something annoying on Instagram and I'll be like, should this person get attacked
00:27:53later or not? And then I'll sort of go through that. But recently I've found Christianity through
00:28:00Charlie Kirk and that has radically changed a lot of what I do. So yeah, people don't really like
00:28:07hearing about religion or politics and I'm a conservative who has a lifelong conservative
00:28:14and I love Charlie Kirk and that kind of, they don't like religion either.
00:28:19What was that brought on by?
00:28:21So when he passed, I loved Charlie Kirk so much.
00:28:25Prior to him passing.
00:28:26Yeah. I loved him so much. Like I loved everything he said. I loved how kind he was. I loved how he was,
00:28:32he was like the true beacon of masculinity if there ever was one.
00:28:35Seems surprising that you would admire somebody who's kind given.
00:28:38Yeah. He's the good person that I can't be. And then when the, when he was taken from the world,
00:28:44I just realized there's no good in the world.
00:28:47What was the lesson that you took from that?
00:28:50Well, initially it was how cruel people are and like how disgusting they are. And if I as a psychopath
00:28:57have more morality than you, it's saying something. And so I saw these people just like mocking his
00:29:04death and like, it became a trend on TikTok. And I was like, he was a fucking human being, bro. He's a
00:29:11human being. He was 31. It just really pissed me off. And so like, I actually grieved him more than I've
00:29:18grieved anyone in my life, including my family. Like my grandfather died in front of my eyes, not the
00:29:24one who burned his daughter. He died in front of my eyes when I was 10 years old. So that, no, no emotion,
00:29:31nothing. The other grandparents die, no emotion. Friends die, no emotion. But like for Charlie Kirk,
00:29:38I was crying every single day, made no sense. Is that strange? Is that a strange situation for you?
00:29:45It is. It's because I don't know if there's any other kind of like such strong masculinity that's
00:29:49not also like just nasty. You know what I mean? Like the way he would talk about women, like he would
00:29:55always be very gentle with women. Like he wouldn't, um, he wouldn't yell at them. He wouldn't do
00:30:01anything. Like he would be calm. He would lead. He would provide, he would protect. And so, and he did it
00:30:06in such a way. And we did, we differ on some beliefs, but we, all of us differ on beliefs.
00:30:12And your conversion to Christianity has happened after Charlie's passing.
00:30:16Yes. So I started feeling the urge to read the Bible again because my parents are Christian and I
00:30:21purposely did not become Christian. So I read the Bible properly. Like I threw a context and everything.
00:30:29And I found Orthodox Christianity, which has really spoken to me. And I love that it's a hospital. So they
00:30:37see it as a hospital and not a courtroom, which is really nice. Cause like when you've been called
00:30:42a bad person your entire life, like you, you kind of want someone who's like, no, you can be redeemed.
00:30:47So they can be redeemed. Yes. Do you think you're a bad person?
00:30:55No. Why? Because I used my skills to help people. Initially I did hurt a lot of people,
00:31:03but eventually I built my platform and women who, I've helped women escape domestic violence. I've
00:31:09helped them heal from sexual trauma. I've helped them like own their own lives. And so like, I just felt
00:31:15like that was a positive thing that I could do to offset the bad stuff.
00:31:20There might be a little bit of penance to be paid by the sands of the first couple of decades
00:31:24of life. I'm interested in this pivot to Christianity a little bit because
00:31:28one of the core tenants of that is to turn the other cheek.
00:31:31That's what I'm having the biggest problem with.
00:31:33As somebody who you've said that you love revenge.
00:31:38Yes.
00:31:38Why?
00:31:40Because I believe in an eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth. If you are ready and willing,
00:31:45to make me feel like shit about something, you should be prepared to feel the same back.
00:31:50Recently, I had some ugly girl comment on my video saying, "Oh, you're not 40 kilos. You're more
00:31:57like 62 and you're losing your attractiveness. You need a better brain." And I was like, "Listen,
00:32:03bitch. I am 40 kilos. If you would like to watch the scale, you can." And then I was just like,
00:32:10"If you think that you should be making commentary, I feel like you have not seen a mirror in a very,
00:32:17very long time." And so I have my best friends who will go and swarm as well. So if you're willing
00:32:24to try and knock out me because I had an eating disorder growing up and that's also what happened
00:32:29in the group, they were constantly trying to call me fat so that I would go back to an eating disorder.
00:32:34Yeah. So the fucking women, I swear to God.
00:32:38And so, yeah. So I'm telling her to go to the gym. You can see the fat rolls on her face.
00:32:45I am exactly 40 kilos. What is the most extreme
00:32:50length that you've gone through to get revenge on someone?
00:33:00Oh, okay. So there was a girl I did pageants with. So she won a pageant and she went to the
00:33:07international. And anyway, so she came back, we did Miss World together and she was super arrogant and
00:33:13she was really, really rude. She'd get under my skin a lot. So she would say like certain races shouldn't
00:33:19be able to compete. Certain people shouldn't be able to compete. Short girls shouldn't be able to compete.
00:33:23And I was like, all right, it's time for this bitch to learn a lesson. So I deleted anything
00:33:28controversial that I said. I screen recorded the whole thing. And then I sent it to every single
00:33:34girl that she had insulted. I sent it to the pageant director who immediately kicked her out of the
00:33:39competition because she's a liability at that point. So they throw her out and it's her last year to
00:33:47actually be in pageants because she's too old. So she can't compete again. And that's what I took
00:33:52the most satisfaction in. If you're saying that someone like me shouldn't compete, you will never
00:33:56compete. And so, yeah, she was completely taken out. And then I decided to take it an extra level.
00:34:03Um, I reached out to Miss Venezuela and Miss Venezuela has millions of people who support her.
00:34:11And less, luckily this, this woman, she was awful enough to let me know that she let Miss Venezuela
00:34:19sleep through her alarm and missed the preliminary finals. And so I told her, I'm like, you know,
00:34:25she purposely didn't let you go. And then I think the entire country of Venezuela that is in love with
00:34:32pageants turned on this girl and they were leaving so many hate comments for like months and she had to
00:34:41go private. And then she, she got a lawyer and let's just say she works in retail. So it would have taken
00:34:48her hours and hours and hours and weeks to earn enough money to get a lawyer to send me a cease and
00:34:53desist letter to which I responded lol, because if she had actually anything against me, if she had the
00:34:59means to sue me, she would have done so. She wouldn't have given me a cease and desist.
00:35:04And this is because she said some mean words to you and was making racist comments and stuff.
00:35:10That's it. Yeah.
00:35:12You managed to set the entire country of Venezuela on this person.
00:35:16Yeah.
00:35:16Okay. Have you been to jail?
00:35:20No, sir.
00:35:23Certainly some things you've done that could have got you to go to jail.
00:35:25Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. But people wouldn't believe it. Like people don't look at me. Like,
00:35:30would you, would you think that I do anything that I do? That you wouldn't. And I'm generally quite
00:35:35smart. Like I tested 138 and I'm never testing again in case it's lower than that. Cause I couldn't
00:35:42live with that shame.
00:35:42It seems like with a few of the things that you've
00:35:46brought up. Um, I am 40 kilos. I promise. Uh, my IQ is 138. Like I don't want to test it again in case
00:35:53it goes back. Um, some sensitivity around people saying what's happening with your age, whatever.
00:36:02It feels like, uh, status and, um, uh, renowned, uh, competence, reputation. It feels like that,
00:36:11that, that that's a core.
00:36:12It is. It is.
00:36:13Part of what it is that you desire. Is that right?
00:36:15Absolutely. I think that is what comes from the narcissism as whereas like the ASPD or the psychopathy
00:36:21is more the machine in my brain that tells me to slow down and do it in a way that doesn't like blow
00:36:27back at me. So.
00:36:28Oh, so you've got, that's an interesting way to look at it. That one is a,
00:36:32one is an engine and the other is a brake pedal.
00:36:34Yes. Exactly.
00:36:34Exactly. That's how I see it.
00:36:36Um, I hate the narcissism. I'm not gonna lie. I wish I could just be,
00:36:41just not worry about other people saying like, thinking that they're better than me. Like,
00:36:46I wish I could say that. I wish I could actually be in a position where I don't care so much about looks,
00:36:52um, intelligence, worth, status. Um, but I feel like those are objective metrics that have been proven.
00:36:59Like if you're in a beauty pageant, there's certain, there's a certain level of beauty that you've attained.
00:37:04If you do extremely well on your year 12 exams, which I did,
00:37:09then you have intelligence. If you have a, an actual quantifiable number of your IQ,
00:37:15that shows that you're not dumb. So when someone says that those things aren't true,
00:37:20or they'll accuse me of having a fake nose cause it's small or breast implants, it's like,
00:37:27that's my genetic superiority. And you're trying to say that I'm a normal person who had to go pay for
00:37:33it and it pisses me off so much. And that's why my psychiatrist was like, we need to detach you from
00:37:39these things because it's going to be really, really bad when you do age. Like when, and like my,
00:37:44my parents look really good. Yeah. Because it's coming.
00:37:48Yeah. It will be coming, but my parents. How old are you?
00:37:51I am 30. Cool. Have you ever wanted to kill anything?
00:37:54Yes.
00:37:55What? People.
00:37:57Okay. Yeah.
00:37:58How'd that go?
00:38:01Um, not so well yet because I have a lot of people around me who would stop it from happening,
00:38:08but I would plan it over a long period of time. There are some people like in that snark group,
00:38:12for example. The Reddit thing.
00:38:14Yeah. Yeah. I would absolutely just skin them if I could,
00:38:18like physically myself, like Catherine Knight.
00:38:21Who's that?
00:38:22Uh, she's an Australian woman, the first woman to get, um,
00:38:26life in prison without parole because she ended up, so she killed her boyfriend because he didn't
00:38:33want to get married. And he, she stabbed him like a hundred and something times. Then she skinned him,
00:38:39like a full skin suit and hung him up by the door. And then she cut off his head and sorry. Um,
00:38:48it was on the stove and she cut off his like meaty parts and cooked them. And so she was going to serve
00:38:54them to his children. And that weren't her children presumably. Yeah. Right.
00:39:01And so that was, and then she took some benzos and fell asleep and tried to act like she had an
00:39:06overdose. But, um, I feel like that's what they deserve. Some of these people for the hell that
00:39:12they put me through, especially because I was dying in the Maldives. Like I hadn't had a blood transfusion.
00:39:17My hemoglobin was so low and my oxygen saturation was like, I was like on the edge of dying. And these
00:39:25bitches had the audacity to be planning this, writing an open letter to Kanika Batra. If you
00:39:31don't do this and this and this and this, we're going to destroy your life. We're going to go into
00:39:35every part of your comment section, which they do. We're going to like send you horrific emails.
00:39:40We're going to try and make, give you bad reviews on your book, even though I know it's good. Even
00:39:46though most people, I think I haven't gotten a single person saying it's bad. And so it's like,
00:39:52if you have that capacity to treat me that way, you don't deserve to be on this planet.
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00:40:59It's so interesting. I'm noticing inside of me as you're talking the balance between the emotion of
00:41:09wanting to give you sympathy for going through that, because that sounds horrendous, being on the edge
00:41:13of dying in the Maldives, and also absolutely knowing that you didn't feel much other than the rage and
00:41:21the resentment and the bitterness. It's very strange. Obviously, it's because you're explaining,
00:41:26there's so much exposition going on. I'm like,
00:41:33why is feeling sympathy for somebody who doesn't feel guilt? A very interesting
00:41:41calculation equation to try and do in my head. That's mean and horrible for anybody to go through,
00:41:48but also this person doesn't respond in the normal way to that. It's very interesting, and I'm noticing
00:41:56that coming up inside of me. It's cool. Okay, so you would kill somebody if you could get away with it,
00:42:01you think? Yes. Okay. I've heard you talk about freedom,
00:42:05like not wanting to risk your freedom as a big part of this. Is that the main sort of utilitarian...
00:42:13I would say so. ...reason that forensics, the likelihood? So if you had the skill to do it?
00:42:18Yeah. I mean, if I had the privilege of being able to do it, like Ted Bundy.
00:42:22I actually relate a lot to Ted Bundy, not for the killing stuff, not at all, but he had the same sort
00:42:27of... I listened to the hours and hours of him talking, and he has a lot of word salads, but when
00:42:33he actually talks about his experiences, like when he didn't know how to talk to people and he didn't
00:42:40know how people would associate with each other, so he used to listen to talk back radio so he could
00:42:45understand how actual conversations work and how they should be happening, because obviously it wasn't
00:42:50happening naturally for him. And then he would talk about this same kind of depression that I have,
00:42:55where it's not profound sadness at any point. It's just this feeling of like, I can't do anything.
00:43:02And it's like, you're just laying there. Flat. Flat. Just flat. There's nothing that can like,
00:43:08lift you out of it. And so that's something I really related to. It's like depression without
00:43:12the sadness. It's interesting. Yeah, literally. Literally, it's depression without sadness.
00:43:16So, what was it like when you first started listening to Ted Bundy talk? It was, that was the first
00:43:24thing. And then how he struggled to make friends because he couldn't understand why people found it
00:43:31off putting by the things that he was doing. Like he would set like cages. He'd set up a trap in the
00:43:37forest. So he'd have a trap door and then there'd be like sticks and stuff holding it back. And so
00:43:43people would fall in and they'd hurt themselves because it'd be a bear trap. And he couldn't
00:43:46understand why that was bad and why people hated him for it. And I couldn't understand why people hated
00:43:51me for what I did, because like, it wasn't something that I'd planned or anything. It was just
00:43:56something that happened. And then also the way his family would treat him,
00:44:00like they would call him evil when he was just a child. I don't think any child is inherently evil.
00:44:06So when like, that really hit home, the fact that he had this white girlfriend, Diane Edwards,
00:44:13as she's known now, how she dumped him. And he was just so angry about it because he had,
00:44:23like, he built himself up to be this person who's at university, who, you know, has achieved a fair bit.
00:44:29And the revenge that he had after that, like leading her on for a whole year and then
00:44:37planning a wedding. And then he just stopped writing to her completely. He stopped, he stopped
00:44:43communicating. She was frantic and she called him. She's like, why are you doing this? And he's like,
00:44:49I don't know what you're talking about. And hung up on her and she'd never heard from him again.
00:44:52So I like the idea of that as revenge, but also like how he would flip flop at university. So do
00:44:59different degrees. Like I've done that. Um, he never really held a stable job. I've held stable jobs,
00:45:06but it's just like, I get bored within a month or two and then I'll be gone. It's different if I had,
00:45:11like, you know, my own show. And like, if I'm in conservative media, like for that, I've always been
00:45:16interested and he went straight into politics. I went straight into politics. On my 16th birthday,
00:45:22I joined my conservative party, which is the liberal party in Australia. I joined at 16,
00:45:27I was VP by 19. And so he was there to rub elbows with like more, I guess, wealthy people. Whereas I
00:45:35just did it because I have a lot of rage and I have a lot of like ability to scheme and plan things.
00:45:41And so in politics, you're rewarded for that. You're rewarded for any sort of brevity you have.
00:45:47Like I had a friend who backstabbed his mother. I won't go into it, but he backstabbed his own
00:45:52mother to be in the faction. So it's like where you thrive, your sadism can thrive without you
00:45:58actually going to prison. And so he utilized that as well.
00:46:02You wrote a book that had Ted in, right? Yes. Yes.
00:46:06That's, it was a fiction novel thing. That was fiction. It was in a female serial
00:46:10killer at the same time. It certainly seems like there are
00:46:15some analogies between the female protagonists and yourself.
00:46:18Yeah. People keep saying that. I'm like, no, she's way better than me.
00:46:22You mean more proficient at what she does?
00:46:25More proficient, more attractive, like richer.
00:46:28Would that not be the dream? Ideal version of me.
00:46:32Yeah, yeah.
00:46:32No, because there's a lot of things that she does that I can't do. It's like the promiscuity.
00:46:37Promiscuity really disgusts me. Like it gives me a visceral reaction.
00:46:41I don't know why, but like, if I like,
00:46:46it's hard to see someone as a person, like if they're, you know, doing really vulgar things,
00:46:53I guess because I grew up in such a conservative home that like that self-esteem is very degenerate.
00:46:58I've got a video that I want you to react to.
00:47:01Sure.
00:47:02Let's get this up, Mark.
00:47:04Rodney Alcala.
00:47:06Don't say it like that.
00:47:07It may be the creepiest episode ever on the dating game,
00:47:10because this bachelor looking for love back in 1978 is actually a serial killer.
00:47:16I'm called the banana and I look really good.
00:47:21No one had any idea that Rodney Alcala
00:47:24had already launched his killing spree when he appeared on the popular dating show.
00:47:29He was a real creepy guy, a real idiot.
00:47:31Jed Mills was bachelor number two and nearly 40 years later, he's still haunted by their encounter.
00:47:37This creep comes up and he puts his face practically in my face and he says,
00:47:42I always get the girl. When I think about what he said, I always get my girl, he kills him.
00:47:49That's what he's talking about.
00:47:50What's your best time?
00:47:54The best time is at night, nighttime.
00:47:58Despite Alcala's weird behavior on the dating game, the bachelorette chose him,
00:48:02but never went on the date because she reportedly found him creepy and lucky for her,
00:48:07because Alcala would later be found guilty of seven murders. Investigators believe he may have actually
00:48:13killed up to 130 victims based on photos found on his property.
00:48:19Why did you respond that way when you saw him?
00:48:22He's just someone I find really fascinating because I was actually watching a documentary
00:48:28on him probably about a year ago and it was actually crazy how much he managed to get away with.
00:48:34Also, his eyes are so demonic. You can just see in them, there's nothing behind there. There's no
00:48:40soul in that at all. You can see his contempt towards women. If you'll notice, there's no Duchenne
00:48:46smile. What's that?
00:48:48When it's a genuine smile, you'll see it up here as well. There'll be crinkles. His stays entirely here,
00:48:56and so he's not being genuine at all. If you look at his eyes, there's nothing there. And if you actually
00:49:03muted the video and played it, you can see the micro expressions on his face that he's getting that
00:49:08delight from duping somebody. That's interesting. So your ability to convince somebody of something that
00:49:20you're not, that is itself rewarding? I would say so, yeah.
00:49:24What's your dating history like? Always a serial monogamist. I don't think that
00:49:35sexual activity or anything of that sort should be outside of a serious relationship. Ideally marriage,
00:49:40but a serious relationship will do in this society. And so because of that, I primarily date,
00:49:48because I am bisexual, but I would sort of have a number of different people that I would go on
00:49:54dates with and I would selectively cut them off. Basically, I would trim it down until I had the
00:50:00person I wanted. And then with them, it's fantastic to have somebody, but I could never really lift the
00:50:09mask for any of them because I couldn't be fully myself. And it's very tiring when you have to wear
00:50:16this mask constantly. And you know that there's going to be consequences if you don't.
00:50:21What does not wearing the mask look like in a relationship?
00:50:25It can get pretty ugly. I do still get a lot of rage. And while I'm better at handling it,
00:50:34I get very, very frustrated at people around me for like not doing the right thing and backing me up
00:50:41immediately or doing things like that. Um, I can't tell them honestly about things that I've done
00:50:46because it's just, it, it's too much to fathom. Like there's this, um, there's an article that I
00:50:53mentioned a lot, the hidden suffering of the psychopath. And it shows how lonely psychopaths get,
00:50:58even if they're dating multiple people, like that, like even say Ted, that's, that's why they believe
00:51:04that, you know, they believe that psychopaths can feel grief and love and whatnot. And so the problem
00:51:11is, is that loneliness and that wedge between you and other people can turn you into someone who commits
00:51:17violence. And for me, that wasn't what I, what turned me, but I knew I couldn't really like show
00:51:23people how I am outside of like the social things that they experienced me at. Like they don't, um,
00:51:31like everyone's always like, you don't seem like a psychopath and you don't seem like you have this
00:51:35and this and this. And it's like, well, if I told you what I actually thought, you'd probably think
00:51:40differently. So that's sort of the issue I have. And also like, I get very, very tired of people,
00:51:48like if they're too high maintenance and I like, they constantly texting, constantly calling,
00:51:53it's like, why don't you get another job? Because if you were like, you have so much time on your
00:51:59hands and you want to chat on the phone all day, like I have things to do. So it's like the, the
00:52:04clinginess I can't deal with, but then again, nonchalant, I can't really deal with either.
00:52:08It kind of has to be this happy balance and trust me, it was very hard to find that.
00:52:13I've heard that you say you have pure contempt for most partners after three months.
00:52:17Yes.
00:52:18What was happening there?
00:52:19I think I would start to see them as the real person that they were instead of the fantasy that
00:52:24I projected onto them. And like, I tend to put people on a pedestal sometimes. And I also actually
00:52:31really love giving gifts and I love love bombing. I do it naturally. It's not, it's not necessarily
00:52:36planned. So I love doing all of that. And then they get hooked on it and then they start getting
00:52:42really, really obsessive. They'll be like, Oh, okay. Why aren't you calling me more?
00:52:45Are you seeing other people? You must be seeing other people. And so there's this like contempt,
00:52:50like I have to handle this creature. I have to like care about it and do good things for it.
00:52:57And it's like, it just becomes like pros versus cons.
00:53:00But you want to do it on your terms because you want to love bomb them when you want to love bomb them.
00:53:04Exactly. Exactly.
00:53:06But you don't want to do it when they want it.
00:53:09No, no, it's that's partially, I would say it, but also, also I would say that it's just overwhelming
00:53:17because my internal system is flat. It's completely flat. Whereas people spikes and it drops and it's
00:53:24like, I don't have time for that. I don't want to deal with that. That's also why I would never actually
00:53:30date or truly be friends with someone with borderline personality disorder, because
00:53:35their abandonment issues are something severe. Like I had one who would text me literally like
00:53:41five times an hour, who, because I wasn't responding or my tone seemed wrong.
00:53:47And it's just like, like I have important things to do. Like she was threatening suicide every weekend.
00:53:54So I had to be on the, on the phone with emergency services, telling them that she'd cut hers at risk
00:53:58in a shallow manner. And it was so frustrating to have all of these tears constantly. And I was like,
00:54:06I can't deal with this. It's not my problem. I just, I get fed up.
00:54:10Hmm. Well, it kind of is your problem if you're in a relationship with someone, right? Because you
00:54:14want them to be there for you when you need them. Your friend who stayed up until four in the morning,
00:54:19you have an awful lot of respect and gratitude for her for doing that.
00:54:22Absolutely.
00:54:23But if your partner was either attempting to or threatening to take her own life,
00:54:28that felt like that was burdensome to you.
00:54:30Well, she did it every weekend. That's the problem. Like if she did it once in six months, okay.
00:54:37But there was a lot of other things. She had a drinking problem. Like she expected me to pay for
00:54:41everything. And it's like, well, I don't want to do that.
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00:55:45Given the, I find it hard to not feel straight contempt for somebody after three months,
00:55:52slightly non-typical approach when it comes to scrutinizing partners and dating multiple people,
00:55:59at least in the beginning at once. Given that, why have you gotten into dating advice?
00:56:04Because other people need to learn science and manipulation, especially I got started when it
00:56:10was like the Red Pill podcasts and everyone was like trying to degrade women and make women humble
00:56:16women, tell them that they're not special, tell them that like there was the advice was literally on par
00:56:22with the infographs on domestic violence. So the isolating, the gaslighting, like the triangulation,
00:56:30making her feel crazy. Like I know how that works because I've done that before. So I figured like,
00:56:36you know, I have all of these women who all of a sudden like me and they are having so many problems.
00:56:42They like email me every single day and say, "Oh, I have this happening. I have this happening.
00:56:46Please help me. No one else can help me." And so I guess because I come across as like ruthless
00:56:51sometimes or very friendly at other times, they get the impression that I will care about what they're
00:56:56dealing with. So only once, I think, only once, like it was, it was a bad situation.
00:57:04It's interesting because you're obviously passionate about this topic, but you still don't really care
00:57:09about the people that are going through it. It's like, you seem to care about the sort of symbolic
00:57:16injustice. Yes. But not the human side. Exactly.
00:57:21Also, I'm noticing throughout the conversation, a lot of, um, male power over women is a big bug
00:57:28bear for you, especially manipulative male power over women that that's something that shouldn't happen.
00:57:35Perhaps history, abuse, assault, also maybe seeing dad with mom. Have you, have you tried to sort of
00:57:42reverse engineer where this evangelism for not having men manipulate women comes from? I mean,
00:57:49you know, everybody should be able to agree that that's bad, but for you, it has a different flavor
00:57:53to it. Absolutely. So obviously with Indian culture, it's very patriarchal. Um, and so men have the final
00:58:01say in everything. And when I was 13, my mom told me that it was time for me to learn how to cook. I said,
00:58:07sure. Is my brother learning too? And she's like, no, you're a girl. You do it. And I was like,
00:58:11fuck that. I'm not going to do this. So I was just like, no, I'm not going to play into this.
00:58:16And then obviously I've seen the dynamic online. I've been on the receiving end. Like I, I absolutely
00:58:22would annihilate anyone who wouldn't egg me. Like, yeah. So that would happen a lot. Like at a casino
00:58:29at one point, a guy was like, yeah, you're, you're hot, but you're not that hot. Like you're not like,
00:58:33I wouldn't go for someone like you normally. I was like, listen, you're five foot six and fat.
00:58:39No one wants you, especially not me. Um, but yeah, I do feel that I, I have had
00:58:47a mental soft spot for women going through abuse, but, but everyone except the one man who raped me,
00:58:59every other person who's ever been good to me has been a man. And every person who's caused me stress
00:59:06or caused me any kind of struggle in life is always women. Women were in that group. Women are in my
00:59:14comment section, like, oh, policing my tone. Women are the ones spreading rumors. Women are the problem.
00:59:21Interesting that most of your protection is of women against men, but at least in your experience,
00:59:30most of your good treatment has been from men and not from women.
00:59:32Literally men have always helped me. Men have been, my dad's loved me forever.
00:59:37Men on the street helped me parallel path.
00:59:39So what do you think's going on there? Square that circle.
00:59:41You know, what's really odd is, okay. So I had this initially, I didn't think men had feelings.
00:59:48Like I literally thought men don't have emotions. So seeing someone have emotions, it was like,
00:59:55okay, maybe they, they do. Um, but realizing that they're the ones who have assisted me since like
01:00:03day one. And they're the ones who have supported me and been like loyal, apart from my two female
01:00:10friends. It's just, I don't know why I had the advocacy for women. And I don't know, like,
01:00:17I actually have quite a contempt for some of my audience because they're very leftist sort of
01:00:22feminists and they want me to be like on their terms about like gender and shit. And I don't believe
01:00:29in that. Okay. What are the best pieces of dating advice you've got for women?
01:00:33So never sleep with them until they, you're in a serious relationship because your body wasn't
01:00:39meant to be used by multiple people regularly. And also your heart wasn't designed to break for so
01:00:44many people. Um, I would always make sure that you are actually safe. You, you don't have like any
01:00:53concerns about red flags. So you should like, I put out some advice in terms of red flags. Like if he's
01:00:59pushing too soon in terms of, he's flooding you with attention, he's giving you everything you want.
01:01:05He's so, he's basically everything that you think of all through the day. That's a bad thing. That's
01:01:14really, really bad. You don't, you don't want to, you don't want a guy who is making you feel like
01:01:18that because he's depriving you of contact from other people who will pull you back into reality.
01:01:23Also, um, I tend to tell women not to say people's names under their actual name and to use a mildly
01:01:33insulting term to keep them there, like to, for their contact name. And then also turn on, hang on, why?
01:01:41Let me get to it. Okay. Also turn off notifications on Instagram and on, uh, any other platforms and
01:01:49also turn off your activity status. So I do this because one dopamine comes in real quick from
01:01:56attention from this person. So you don't want to have the, the life sucked out of you because you've
01:02:03slowly been developing this level of respect for this person. Like, let me put it this way. If I have
01:02:11a guy saved on my phone as hepatitis B, how sad would I be if hepatitis B didn't text me back on time?
01:02:19So women get really obsessed like with the Instagram status because they'll be like, okay, this guy was
01:02:26active nine minutes ago. I sent him a message 10 hours ago. So they start to feel like there's something
01:02:31wrong with them. But if you have your notifications and your status off, you don't know when he was
01:02:36online. He doesn't know when you were online. You're mysterious. Um, so it's, it's like, it's a,
01:02:42it's a place where you don't feel the hurt if you don't get a text from him. So you're, you're priming
01:02:50your body to be neutral instead of like emotionally connecting onto someone who you don't really know
01:02:56very well. And also I would say, don't text all the time because that's creating more intimacy than is
01:03:04actually capable and real at the, at the moment. Like the false intimacy that comes from texting for
01:03:10like weeks and weeks before meeting is ridiculous. I understand maybe an early dating, not falling
01:03:16too fast for someone that you don't trust is perhaps not hepatitis B, but it's, it's not a bad solution
01:03:24generally, but eventually do you advise women to completely remove their mask as well?
01:03:30Yes. So I would say to women until you are engaged, you're single and you should, you should maintain,
01:03:39you know, your body. You shouldn't be out sleeping with people. Don't date five people and sleep with
01:03:45them. That's not where we're at. Um, and so that's kind of where I go to tell women. And then,
01:03:52so another thing with the Orthodox church, it tells you that, um, marriage is when you become a martyr
01:03:58for each other. And I think if there's no investment in you first, you don't need to be a martyr for
01:04:04anybody. Like. But you were also concerned about somebody investing in you too much first.
01:04:10Well, well, yeah. Cause that's love bombing. But you just said that you'd like to love bomb
01:04:14people early on in a relationship. I know you do. I do. Yeah. But it's okay for you to do it,
01:04:19but it's worrying if somebody, it's a red flag. If a guy does it for a girl,
01:04:23it's worrying both ways. Cause there's plenty of female psychopaths. You just don't really hear
01:04:27about them. So you would be saying to, if you were advising the guys that you were dating,
01:04:31if there was two of you and you saw you behaving the way that you do with guys,
01:04:36what do you think you would advise the guys? So basically an antidote to someone like me.
01:04:41What would you say? Would you be, that's a red flag. I'd be worried about this.
01:04:44I would tell them which red flags are there. And I do have men that I coach because like I've,
01:04:50yeah. Another thing that I want to say about how I discovered how much men help, like I went to a
01:04:55party with my husband and it was all his like youthful friends. And I was, they were talking
01:05:01about their girlfriends and whatnot. And then they said that they would be devastated if they cheated on
01:05:06them. And I thought men are naturally like, they don't have that emotion and like, they wouldn't care
01:05:11about cheating on someone and saying the guy saying he couldn't live with himself.
01:05:14If he'd done it. Yeah. If he'd done it. And it's like, okay, man, maybe they're not so bad.
01:05:20And then I went to Europe by myself and every single time it was a European man who would help me get
01:05:26my bag, who would get it off the, um, the, the conveyor belt. Um, and they would get me like free
01:05:34meals and stuff. And I know the intention behind some of that, but some of it was genuinely just
01:05:40helping me out. Yeah. Like, and even like Russian guys, like Russia, there was like a lot of these
01:05:45airports that have like the stairs going up and down for the tarmac. And so I had to lug my suitcases
01:05:51up there and it was so annoying. And this Russian guy, he just grabbed my suitcase, took it down,
01:05:56went across the tarmac, went up the stairs to the plane, put it over my head and just walked away.
01:06:02And I was like, gentlemen. What's the story about you and your husband?
01:06:06Okay. So we met when I was doing Miss Universe New Zealand and I went on a date with him,
01:06:12which was meant to be a double date with my friend and that guy bailed. So it was just like
01:06:18him with two Miss Universe girls. And he got really, really nervous beforehand, but we just hit it off
01:06:24so fast. So we were talking about politics. Like we have the same belief system. I didn't have to lie
01:06:29and say I was like a leftist for a leftist person. So I was, he was a genuine conservative. I'm a genuine
01:06:35conservative. He was like, he was consistent with his effort and he was such a cheapskate at that
01:06:41time. So if he, he went out of his way to go buy new clothes to see me. And I appreciate that. I
01:06:47appreciate putting in, like putting in time and effort for somebody, because that's also what I will
01:06:52do. If I truly find interest in somebody, I will dress how they like. I will be, you know, make sure
01:06:57I'm in their corner always, but he was fantastic. Um, we had a couple of dates before I had to go back
01:07:03to Australia and then I flew him to Australia with my money and he never left. So we kind of moved in
01:07:13together. He moved into my parents' house, which was pretty taboo at the time, but I mean, they weren't
01:07:19too angry because they, they saw that he was genuine. And after three months, I didn't feel contempt. I
01:07:27felt happy. Like I felt open. Like I can actually talk about things.
01:07:31What was the difference?
01:07:32I think cause he's so calm. Like he's this anchor that I've never really had outside of my father.
01:07:38And he is one of the best men I've ever known. Like he doesn't even eat if I haven't eaten.
01:07:44And he is like, he's known as floor guy because when I go to transfusions, he sleeps on the floor
01:07:51with me while I'm getting transfused. And like, there's not a lot of people who would go to those
01:07:57lengths. Like, like the way he sponsored my Europe trip, like he was working so hard and he does so
01:08:05much for me. He does so much for our like fur babies and he has the values that I've always really
01:08:13appreciated. Is this the first time you, are you in love? Is that right? Is this the first time you
01:08:19felt that? I don't know. It was one before, but it wasn't the same. This is like, this is something
01:08:27that can endure. I didn't think that one could endure. The first one.
01:08:31Is it difficult being in a relationship? You mentioned, uh, if somebody says something,
01:08:36gets on my nerves, annoys me, agitates me, if they're doing something wrong, if they make me feel
01:08:41a certain way, negative, too much pushback, if I kind of don't get what I want. But in relationships,
01:08:48it's really important to have that push and pull because you don't always know what's right for you.
01:08:53And if it's somebody off the street or someone you have no loyalty with, that kind of doesn't matter.
01:08:57But if it's your partner, it's really important for them to push you into place to show you the
01:09:02blind spots. A lot of those blind spots are going to be uncomfortable. Like if you do something and
01:09:06say, Hey, you're being, you're being an asshole. And that's what he says.
01:09:10But why is, is that not, are you, is there a tension inside of you now? You've got this,
01:09:15this person, you've got the loyalty thing, but you've also got this very fundamental physics inside
01:09:21of your system that you've had for far longer than him. Yes.
01:09:24Do those two things clash? They do clash a lot. Um, the thing is with
01:09:29him is that I see everything that he does for me. And I also give him grace because around him,
01:09:35I don't have to wear a mask. So I can't like, of course he, he causes agitation. Once in France,
01:09:42I was like, you, you like when he was sleeping, I was like, you snore like a fucking chainsaw.
01:09:48And it was pissing me off. And then I was trying to learn French on Duolingo and he kept like being
01:09:54annoyed when the bell went off, when I got something correct. And so I got really angry at him. But,
01:10:00um, the way I sort of handled the relationship with him is that we keep things pretty fresh.
01:10:05We changed things around a lot because I don't like monotony. So what does that look like?
01:10:10So we like traveled to different places. We were involved with like, um, with just like going
01:10:18through the Epstein files. Like we were onto that well before it was like being talked by the DOJ.
01:10:24And so we went there, we would be met up with Jeffrey's brother, Mark, who was nothing like Jeffrey.
01:10:30He's a great guy, great, amazing guy. Um, and so we get into like weird places. Like
01:10:38together we've been a force to be reckoned with alone. I can be sort of a, like an explosive that
01:10:45can go off at certain times, or it could be like an ice block that melts over time. Um, but with him,
01:10:51he kind of will rein me in and he can also do it in a way that I don't find disrespectful.
01:10:57And I've had my fights with him. I mean, there was one time at the pool I went to with my friend,
01:11:02Marie who had a Asian background and this white lady was like, oh, you two can't swim properly.
01:11:08And I was like, I've been swimming here every single day for like two years. So you can shut the fuck up.
01:11:14And so my husband, he didn't stand up for me there because he's not a confrontational person.
01:11:19And so I threatened to break up because I was like, I can't deal with someone who won't stand
01:11:23up for me because I'm a very confrontational person. If someone has a problem with me
01:11:27and they talk shit about me, I'll go directly to them. So that was sort of a problem we had at the
01:11:32start. And he was a little bit worried about like, you know, what psychopathy is and all of that.
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01:12:37That's shopify.com/modernwisdom. In 2021, you said that you were scared of becoming an abuser.
01:12:43Yes. Today, your slogan on your website is, "Stop being the victim. Start being the villain."
01:12:50What happened to the woman who was frightened of becoming abusive? Well, I don't want to be abusive to
01:12:57people I know. I don't know what other shit people have done. If you're dealing with a guy who's
01:13:03like ruined your life, why shouldn't you be abusive in return? But I also must say that
01:13:09he runs my website. It's his copy, not yours. It's not mine. Interesting. I think, you know,
01:13:15looking at a lot of the dating advice that's in your book, some of the stuff that's on the website,
01:13:21it does feel quite manipulative. Is that fair to say? I think it is fair, yeah.
01:13:24Right. Do you think that teaching women manipulative dating tactics could cause them
01:13:30to introduce toxic games into actually healthy relationships? I try to avoid that, especially
01:13:37with my coaching clients. I tell them where ruthlessness should begin and where it should
01:13:41end. And it should definitely end when you're in a secure relationship. You don't want to damage that
01:13:46in any way, shape or form. So I value people's relationships if they are good for them. But if
01:13:53some guy is making you feel like shit, saying that he's got better options than you, and he's treating
01:14:00you like you're nothing, like you're a speck of dust, then it's more than fair for me to tell them,
01:14:07like if you want to get revenge or if you want to feel in power again, like if you want to be in power
01:14:13again, then you can use these methods. So you can have the benefits of psychopathy without all the
01:14:19negatives of psychopathy. What are some of the methods? So the methods of getting revenge on
01:14:26somebody or regaining power, especially early in a relationship, I suppose. So basically,
01:14:31I've had a lot of women who slept with a guy for a while, and they don't know how to make him commit,
01:14:39and they don't want to give him up. And so they'll book coaching calls with me, not take my advice,
01:14:46because they're weak. Women are weak. And so it pisses me off. But I still tell them like,
01:14:52this is what you need to do in terms of methods, like if he thinks he's better than you, show him
01:14:58your other options, like not directly, because men aren't stupid. Men know when things are happening.
01:15:03So don't rub it in his face. Just let him know about it. Just let him know you've got options,
01:15:08and you're going to put up with the shit. I also tell them to have the shit tests, right? The
01:15:13shit tests are important because you need to see what he will do under different circumstances
01:15:18before you commit to him. And I think men should be able to do that as well. I just don't like the
01:15:24advice that, say, fresh and fit give of like making a woman feel like she's garbage so that she's like
01:15:32lowered her self-esteem to be with you. So that's not really what I tell people to do at all.
01:15:37It sounds like some of the bits of advice that I've seen from you get perilously close to that,
01:15:45you know, the push and pull that you're supposed to love bomb him and then withdraw it,
01:15:51that you should find out what makes him anxious and vulnerable, and then know how to push those
01:15:58buttons in order to make him need you a lot. That to me feels just like an inversion of some of the
01:16:06worst bits of dating advice that have come from the other side of the fence.
01:16:09Okay. So I feel like women can't do as much damage as men most of the time. There are some exceptions
01:16:15to that, of course. And I also know that women are very moderate, so they're going to pull back what
01:16:19I say. And they're going to not do that because they just can't. Like I have proven time and time
01:16:24again that they can't. They want to live vicariously through me, but they cannot carry that out. But if
01:16:29they can carry it out to a point where they don't feel unstable, that's where you need to be. So I know
01:16:34their limitations. I know that if I put them here to a certain extent and they obviously, you know,
01:16:41will not go to that level. They will not go to that line. They will be well before that line. It's kind
01:16:46of like when in your, in drama school, when they're like, bring out all your energy and then draw it
01:16:52back in. So there's, are there going to be a couple of women who become genuinely abusive? Potentially.
01:16:59But I am not giving them any materials myself. Like if they choose to harm someone, that's not my fault.
01:17:07They can choose to take the advice in a book in general, or they could not.
01:17:12If Andrew Tate published your book with the pronouns reversed, how do you think you'd describe it?
01:17:19Pretty much his, like, it would be his ticket to fame, except without sex trafficking.
01:17:29When it comes to dating advice though, a lot of what's being, what's being put across,
01:17:35like it seems like you really stand in opposition to men that manipulating women, to men that are trying
01:17:41to use dopamine and psychology in an attempt to create a need that maybe isn't there, create a power
01:17:48differential, create a degree of dependency. You're saying that women, men don't feel the impact of
01:17:58that in the same way that women do, and that women can't deploy the power of that in the same way that
01:18:02men can. Exactly.
01:18:06Maybe. I would say women are interpersonally much more deft than men are, and much more effective.
01:18:16Women are better lying detectors. They're also better liars. They are better at venting and gossip.
01:18:24That's why the movie Mean Girls was made about, it wasn't mean boys, it was mean girls.
01:18:29I understand what you mean that empathy may be a little bit higher in women on average.
01:18:36Extremely.
01:18:36But something tells me that those aren't the sorts of women that are going to be seeking
01:18:40out your content. So I wonder whether or not we're putting a performance-enhancing
01:18:44drug on top of women who already maybe have this disposition, and you've identified yourself as,
01:18:50"Wow, I didn't know that men would feel guilt if they cheated on their partner. Wow, I didn't know that
01:18:55men actually might be able to feel pain of being ghosted." Do they?
01:19:04Men feeling the pain of being ghosted. Absolutely.
01:19:08Actually, it's a thing.
01:19:10I would say so, yeah. Look, there's certainly men who understand that applying an awful lot of
01:19:21romantic pressure early in a relationship can get a woman to fall for them, but what they're
01:19:26doing is trying to emulate the realness of that. There have to be men that are just doing the realness
01:19:32thing. Not everybody is trying to play the game, or else the signal wouldn't work.
01:19:36But the thing is, men are far more likely to be Machiavellian, far more likely. It's like 1 in
01:19:4420 for men. It's like 1 in 100 for women.
01:19:47Okay, so you're talking about 5% versus 95%.
01:19:49Yeah, but those 5% get around.
01:19:53That's true. That's a fair point. You're right. The men that are the sociosexual few at the top.
01:20:00Now, it's interesting. It's actually the sociosexual few men with the sociosexual few women. It doesn't
01:20:05tend to be the 80/20 thing. It doesn't seem to really be that true anymore. I understand what
01:20:10you mean. I understand why it's important for people to understand how manipulation works. I think
01:20:16what's dangerous is when you start to teach people to do it in reverse. What you do is you create the
01:20:25incentive to damage people who are trying to do things legitimately. So the romance, the love bombing,
01:20:33the care, the attention, the affection, it might just be a guy who's like, "I found my woman.
01:20:39I found my woman and I can't stop thinking about her. I'm going to do the flowers thing. I'm going
01:20:45to send her the messages, the Disney princess romance movie thing, the exact rom-com stuff that I think a
01:20:50lot of women want." And what I worry is that those women become skeptical of the motivations of guys
01:20:59doing things with all of the legitimacy that they wanted and everything is seen through.
01:21:06Well, that's love bombing. If he's texting you three times in an hour, that's too much. Or if you
01:21:11get flowers after the first. Because if you don't ring a girl, that would be bad. But if you got flowers
01:21:16the next day, that would be too much. It's like, well, I don't know. Maybe he's just like, "Oh my
01:21:20God, that was the greatest night of my life. I found my wife. He's telling all of his friends."
01:21:23Or maybe he's a fuck boy that you're just on the roster. You're in the WhatsApp broadcast list
01:21:28and working out the difference between those two. I worry that there might be some women who basically
01:21:34lose the person who was doing the thing they really wanted because they're seeing it as a tactic
01:21:38as opposed to an emotion. Does that make sense?
01:21:40That's the purpose of shit tests. So you ask them to go slightly inconveniently out of their way to
01:21:47help you in some way. So I'm not saying you have to help move her house or something. If she's moving
01:21:51house, you have to go handle all that. But it's like, do you mind picking this up on your way here?
01:21:57Do you mind meeting me here even though it's a little bit further from you? Do you mind?
01:22:01It's the utility stuff. Because a man who loves you or cares about you or wants to genuinely be with
01:22:06this woman and he's like, "Oh my God, I love her so much. This is fantastic. I've met my woman."
01:22:12They're not going to have a problem with that.
01:22:13So you're looking for effort.
01:22:15Exactly. Words mean nothing.
01:22:18There's a line from Matthew Hussey, which is, "Invest in people based on how much they invest in you."
01:22:23Exactly.
01:22:24And that is, for him, especially, softly, softly, Matthew Hussey, quasi sociopathic,
01:22:30because it's to do with the transactions, to do with as long as you show up for me.
01:22:34Look, I don't disagree with...
01:22:38Also, realistically, how many men are going to actually take you to Paris later that night?
01:22:45They promise you in the morning, at coffee, how many are they going to actually take you to Paris
01:22:50that evening?
01:22:52I guess it depends how good the sex is.
01:22:56Tell me in the past how you've dealt with breakups.
01:23:02Okay. I tend to accidentally break up with guys on their birthdays. One guy, I broke up with him,
01:23:11and he drove to my house, and he was sitting outside, and he was crying, and he was texting me
01:23:15constantly, "Please come out, please come out, please come out."
01:23:18On his birthday?
01:23:19On his birthday.
01:23:20I didn't know because I didn't ask. I was like, "I'm not coming out. I'm not interested. I'm done.
01:23:26Please leave." And if you don't leave, I'm not going to come out regardless. It's late at night.
01:23:32So I was watching him cry in the car.
01:23:35How did you feel when you were watching him cry?
01:23:38I think I laughed a little bit, and then eventually got really pathetic, so I just closed the blinds.
01:23:44Other people, I tend to be as gentle as I can, or I tend to just move very slowly away,
01:23:55so I'll start to draw back. There'll be less communication. There'll be less effort from me.
01:24:00There'll be less prioritization.
01:24:03Not a clean cut? You don't just say-
01:24:05Sometimes I do. Sometimes I'm just like, "Okay, we're incompatible in this, and this, and this,
01:24:12and these are things that we cannot overcome, so we just need to handle it."
01:24:17I've dealt with all kinds of breakups with people, so I think the most effective is generally fading away.
01:24:25The most effective way to break up with somebody is-
01:24:28Yeah, because the ones that I tell them that we can't work out, they're always like,
01:24:32"Oh no, I can do this, and I can do that, and I can do this, and we can make it work."
01:24:36It's like, "I don't want you to." And they don't take that as a final answer.
01:24:42Even "I don't want you to" isn't taken as a final answer.
01:24:44Yeah. That's happened to me plenty of times.
01:24:50Rather than giving justifications, in the past, did you try saying,
01:24:56"I don't want to be in this relationship anymore," and not give a justification?
01:24:59Well, once I called a guy. They told him he was getting fat.
01:25:03That's still a justification.
01:25:06"I don't want to be in this relationship anymore."
01:25:07No, no, I would not do that.
01:25:08So, why?
01:25:09I don't know. I've just not been a person like that.
01:25:12I wonder whether there's something about that utilitarian thing coming through again,
01:25:16but whether there needs to be a ledger of some kind, I have to have a justification for this.
01:25:21But needing to have a justification for it is actually quite a human thing.
01:25:26Yeah, so it's like letting them know that something exists,
01:25:30not necessarily them actually doing it.
01:25:35I'll set up an arbitrary boundary of like, "Don't text me before this time,"
01:25:39and then they start doing it regularly.
01:25:40And I'm like, "Okay, I've given you this."
01:25:43And my actual motivation would be completely different to how I present it.
01:25:47You just don't want to be in the relationship, but you made this rule interesting.
01:25:51Let's say that you had neurotypical children.
01:25:55Yes.
01:25:55Would you encourage them to date a sociopath?
01:25:58Yes.
01:25:59Why?
01:26:00Because if you earn like a real sociopath, real psychopath, if they are genuinely on your team,
01:26:08you have someone who is willing to harm people for you.
01:26:11They are ride or die for you. They're in your corner.
01:26:14They're choosing to love you every single day.
01:26:17They're not a slave to their emotions and the brain chemicals.
01:26:20They are making an effort to be there for you.
01:26:23And Dr. K, he's from Healthy Gamer GG, he even spoke on this.
01:26:29He said, "People who are capable of these heinous things have chosen to be on your side,
01:26:34and they will carry out the instrumental damage to other people for you,
01:26:39and they will be your shield." First, you vet the crap out of them, vet them, vet them, vet them.
01:26:47Even sociopaths, psychopaths, the mask slips regardless. If I hung out with you for a week,
01:26:53it would slip fully. You would see it. No matter how hard I try, it will slip.
01:26:58How long? Because you can hold together a two-hour podcast relatively well.
01:27:05When does it begin to get difficult? A couple of days in, a week in, a couple of weeks in?
01:27:09Probably a week.
01:27:09Okay.
01:27:10A week, you'll start seeing.
01:27:11And what does that look like? What does start seeing?
01:27:13You'd start seeing less enthusiastic responses, you'd see less courteousness,
01:27:20although… More callous?
01:27:21More callous. Definitely more callous.
01:27:24It's less me trying to appease or trying to cater to somebody. It would be the true self coming out.
01:27:35Do you think some men get turned on at the idea of being manipulated?
01:27:38Yeah, they do. They come into my DMs regularly. They're asking me if I can manipulate them,
01:27:44and they'll give me money for it.
01:27:46It's like pay pig stuff, but manipulate pig stuff.
01:27:49Yeah, yeah, yeah, pay pigs. And then there's submissive men especially,
01:27:53they'll come up to me and they'll be like, "Oh, I find you so attractive," or,
01:27:57"I love that you could make me do anything," and you say the most vile things and still are so hot.
01:28:04So I get that a lot, and I find it really repulsive, because anything that's linked, I guess, to
01:28:13sexual gratification is something I find really dirty.
01:28:16Casually?
01:28:17Yeah, casually. And that's exactly what they're wanting. I mean, they're getting off on it.
01:28:22I'm like, it does nothing for me.
01:28:24Interesting that I had a friend in university who was doing financial, FINDOM,
01:28:33financial dominate, dominate tricking. And this guy would send her, I didn't realize how it worked,
01:28:41it's fucking gnarly. This guy would send her his pay packet at the start of every week or at the start
01:28:46of every month, and she would drip feed him 50p, one pound, one pound 50 daily. And he would have to
01:28:53beg, and she would have all of these videos and stuff. And it was a consensual, unconsensual relationship,
01:29:01because the whole premise was, "I need you to send me more. No, I won't." But then at the start of each
01:29:08month, she would get his entire pay packet. And there was a time when the car was out of gas,
01:29:14and he was married with kids. The car was out of gas, and he needed to drive to work. And she just
01:29:21sent him 50p and said, "Get the bus instead." And he said, "That can't even get me there." And she said,
01:29:24"Well, just walk." And you go, "Okay." At what point does this weird kind of
01:29:31self-mistreatment, kind of like financial self-harm that you're legitimating somebody else doing on your
01:29:38behalf, ethically, I still have no idea. That was 15 fucking years ago, and I still don't know how I
01:29:46feel about it. But it's strange that some people can get off sexually with that. And what your
01:29:56distaste is around is the fact that they're feeling sexually, even if you don't feel it.
01:30:00Yeah. I don't like them-
01:30:01That's very interesting.
01:30:02I don't like the feeling of them thinking they can, I guess, sexually have power.
01:30:07Steal pleasure in a way.
01:30:08Yeah, exactly.
01:30:10I think it's interesting that you're sort of stopping, you've got this disconcerting sensation
01:30:19around men wanting to be manipulated by you. I feel like part of the status issue as well,
01:30:27is it's such a lowering of them in comparison to you. It seems like pity is a little bit of an
01:30:34element in here as well. Is that fair?
01:30:36Yeah. So I've had a lot of guys come up to me on Tinder or whatever and say, "You're too good for me."
01:30:43And there's something really disgusting in that for me. It's like, either he's trying to get me to
01:30:48like compliment him to the point where he's at the status where he believes me to be,
01:30:54or he wants me to abandon my own self and, you know-
01:30:57It's a game or it's low self-worth.
01:30:59Exactly. Exactly. And so when they say that, when they said it before, I used to be like, "Okay,
01:31:06let me just respond with something nice." And then I realized most of them are really terrible people.
01:31:11And if you're automatically disqualifying yourself, then I have no reason to show any interest in you.
01:31:18And I don't find it attractive that you don't have any self-respect.
01:31:21Mm-hmm. It's just, it's something that's icky. I don't like weakness and I don't like pathetic
01:31:28sort of situations like that.
01:31:32What are some of the things that you don't understand about yourself?
01:31:34Why I have so many hypocritical positions on things.
01:31:42Why I've cultivated an audience that isn't anything like me.
01:31:47Like I'm a conservative. I want a conservative base. I want to be able to talk about politics.
01:31:52I want to be able to talk about things that I care about. And my audience is just capturing
01:31:58me in this place where I have to pretend to care about their ridiculous and quite often degrading and
01:32:06degenerate behavior. Like I've cultivated this and it pisses me off. And then anything with psychopathy,
01:32:14it brings more women, more crazy women in my inbox. And it's like, it's great if they're buying my book.
01:32:20Okay. It's great if they're booking coaching sessions, but I hate them. So it's like this,
01:32:26there's this like duality of it. And it's like, you either provide me use or you don't. And that's
01:32:34kind of a position I have. I also don't know why I support women in general when women have caused me
01:32:40the most harm out of everyone. Uh, I also feel like how I expect empathy and stuff from other people,
01:32:50even though I can't reciprocate. Um, the weirdest thing about me is like, I would say-
01:32:56Oh, the weirdest. Go on.
01:32:58Yeah. The weirdest thing about me is that, um, I get really confused when people don't like me.
01:33:04Like I will like, I'm saying people I don't even know and they're in relationships with other people
01:33:09who are not me. Like it makes no sense. It's like, I know logically they don't know I exist.
01:33:15Right. But it's like, how can someone be in a relationship with someone who is not me?
01:33:19Is that the grandiosity?
01:33:20I think it is. I think that's narcissism. But yeah, like a really solid example of what a psychopath or
01:33:30alleged psychopath is, is Candace Owens. So over time she drip feeds her audience like little bits of,
01:33:38oh, here's more information about Charlie's death, even though it's got nothing to do
01:33:42with Charlie and she's just trying to get views. That's, that's a psychopath's play.
01:33:46How, uh, how can someone detect if another person's a sociopath or a psychopath?
01:33:53First the eyes, then you could do a simple test with the yawn test, smile test.
01:33:58We don't yawn when you yawn. We don't smile. Laughing isn't contagious for us.
01:34:02It will generally mirror what you, your positions are. Tilted head means more like they, like we're
01:34:09looking like we're actually trying to understand everything you're saying. Remembering your name,
01:34:14all of those things that are very, very specific, uh, complements on obscure things.
01:34:19Like I, I like people's noses. And so like, I think you have a nice nose and I think there's like,
01:34:24Rob Lowe is my ideal. Cause, cause he's got like the perfect, most tiny little nose. So things like
01:34:30that, like there's the peculiarities of psychopaths. Um, and another thing that you would notice is,
01:34:37so we have weird justifications in our head for things. And so, you know, BTK, Dennis Rader.
01:34:46No. Who's that?
01:34:46He wouldn't, he was a serial killer, uh, bind, torture, kill. Okay.
01:34:50Yeah. He wouldn't rape the women because that he killed because he said that would be cheating on his
01:34:55wife. And, uh, what's the, Ed, Ed Kemper was like, yeah, I killed her, but I never hit her.
01:35:02So it's like, there's this weird little things that you'll notice that are off and there are,
01:35:06you'll tell that there's, if you can study people's faces, there'll be little microaggressions.
01:35:11Like usually when you lie and get away with it, there's like a little bit of a smile coming up.
01:35:16Like, and like, I don't know what the direct term for it is, but that's really, really something you'll
01:35:22see. And also with actions, you'll see psychopaths will help you only when it's useful for them
01:35:28generally. But if they are helping you in times that you are offering nothing in return, then you've
01:35:35made it into sort of a successful relationship with a psychopath.
01:35:40Who do you think some of the most famous sociopaths in the world out there at the moment are?
01:35:44Candace Owens, um, Justin Trudeau, uh, Gavin Newsom, JD Vance, uh, who else?
01:35:58JD, but not Trump. Not Trump. Trump's a narc. He's a narcissist.
01:36:01Okay. Yeah. Uh, who else is...
01:36:09There are so many people. Kevin Spacey. Please don't kill me, Kevin Spacey. Uh, they all seem to go...
01:36:16I think you're the wrong gender for Kevin.
01:36:18True. True. Uh, who else? Um, Angelina Jolie.
01:36:23I think Angelina's a...
01:36:25Yeah, yeah.
01:36:25...sociopath.
01:36:26I think the front of being an ambassador for charities and not speaking out for the Jews and not
01:36:32actually acknowledging that women were raped and tortured on the 7th of October in 2023.
01:36:39That's really hypocritical. She loves stealing other people's men. Like she, she literally breaks up
01:36:45relationships on like a regular basis. She seems to use people a lot for what they have and nothing that
01:36:52she does seems like it, it is genuine affection. But also, also Mark Zuckerberg, he's like a lizard.
01:37:00You can see he doesn't blink. That's something you should probably look into.
01:37:04So the, the Mark Zuckerberg thing, that was before he had his sartorial revamp.
01:37:11Yes.
01:37:12As soon as he started wearing chains, all of that stuff went away.
01:37:14Yeah.
01:37:15I look, I've spent time, I've spent time with Mark and I was like, okay, I'm gonna fucking lock in.
01:37:18I'm gonna lock in on this guy and I'm gonna check like, is there a second set of eyelids or whatever?
01:37:23I'm not here to fucking shill for Meta or Zuck at all, but like, he is
01:37:31outstandingly normal, like outstandingly normal. I watched him and Jocker Willink roll BJJ together.
01:37:39I don't know. I, I looked, I looked real close. I'm like.
01:37:43You really didn't notice anything?
01:37:44No, I'm pretty good at reading people.
01:37:46Really?
01:37:47Yeah. Yeah. I'm pretty good at reading people. And I really, I didn't see anything at all.
01:37:53Nice guy around his family. Nice guy around his kids.
01:37:55But you don't know him behind closed doors.
01:37:57It's true. But I, you know, it was like two or three days watching him interact with staff,
01:38:02watching him interact with, definitely, you know, a real sort of high thinking,
01:38:08airy, distracted sort of kind of guy, but like who the fuck has managed to build businesses like
01:38:12that and doesn't have that skill. I don't know. Hey, I'm not the, I'm not the sociopath whisperer
01:38:16here. Um, Ariana Grande is a prolific homewrecker.
01:38:19Oh yes. I was going to say Ariana as well.
01:38:22Right. But do you think, can someone be a homewrecker without being a sociopath?
01:38:25Yeah, they can. But the way that she does it is in the most malicious way possible. Like
01:38:29that's her goal is to break up the relationship. It's not that she's just madly in love with this.
01:38:34Why would that be, why would that be something useful or interesting? The, the breaking up.
01:38:39Because there's, there's joy in watching the pain. Like that's, I guess, a side of sadism that.
01:38:43But you haven't talked about that. We haven't talked about the sadism thing. You've talked about
01:38:48wanting to get revenge on people that some girl says something that's mean,
01:38:51and then you do something. The sadism side seems to have fallen away a little bit.
01:38:58Well, I haven't really gone into detail on it.
01:39:00Well, let's go into detail. Tell me about the sadism part of it.
01:39:03So I purposely, there's a lot of people that I purposely, like I tell them that I like them and
01:39:10whatnot. I like show them vulnerability so that they'll show me theirs. And then I actually enjoy
01:39:15watching them suffer. I'll give them incorrect advice so that I know that they are not, not my
01:39:20clients, but literally I will lead them astray. I know exactly how to turn them. I know exactly how
01:39:26their mind works. I can make them or I can break them. And seeing someone begging you to see them
01:39:32and like being a fully grown man crying, there's a satisfaction in that. There's a lot of satisfaction.
01:39:40What's the sensation?
01:39:41It's a thrill. It's like a thrill. It's like adrenaline. It's like, oh my God,
01:39:45look at what he's willing to do for me.
01:39:46Like power.
01:39:47The power. Yeah. Someone submitting, I guess. And that's something I like outside of, I guess,
01:39:54sexual relationships or romantic relationships. I don't really like submissive men. I think they're
01:39:58disgusting, but I'm saying in terms of like seeing emotional pain, that is something that I enjoy.
01:40:06Like I write the most, like, I think funny insults. And I'm like, I'm like, you have less integrity
01:40:14than Reinhard Heydrich. So let's not get into that. Um, but there's a certain sort of suffering,
01:40:20like where you leave an emotional gap for them, that they desperately need closure from you.
01:40:26Hmm. And so they'll like run, like run in circles, trying to please you, trying to get that out of you.
01:40:32And I will never give that person closure because I know then I'll have control over them for the rest
01:40:37of their lives. People try to get over it, but I've had people from nine years ago tell me they're
01:40:42having dreams about me. And so I feel like to a level it's working. And there's also with the physical
01:40:50say, uh, the physical sadism was more something in childhood. Like I would enjoy watching them get
01:40:56injured. I would enjoy watching them like bleed, I guess. I would enjoy pushing her off the stool
01:41:01because every single day she had a new bruise. Um, I used to, but now I think because I guess
01:41:08there's an element of being charged as an adult for crimes like that, or like for fraud, if I start
01:41:15stealing credit cards again, or if I see people like, for example, when I stole a credit card from
01:41:21a girl's wallet at university, I went and I was comforting her where she was like, someone went
01:41:27on a shopping spree with my card. And I was like, that is so awful. People are despicable.
01:41:32People are really bad. I was like hugging her. Meanwhile, I was spending all her money.
01:41:37So there was that kind of delight in like watching her do that. And then, you know,
01:41:43the girl that I ruined the pageant one, there was so much like joy in seeing her like go into a level
01:41:50of depression that seemed unbearable because her depression is not like my depression as I don't
01:41:57think it is. Um, so seeing that struggle. That one felt righteous though. It's righteous.
01:42:04I feel like it feels like those are, I did the girl with the credit card do anything.
01:42:09No, she canceled the card. I mean, did she do anything to justify the stealing of the card?
01:42:13No, I just wanted to. I can, so I can see this is where for me,
01:42:17the real discomfort comes in, which is if you do something to someone and you get an outsized piece
01:42:24of revenge, horrible, very painful, but at least in the equation of normal human psychology, you can
01:42:33understand it. It's when it's senseless, there's no justifiable reason. There's no understandable
01:42:40explanation for why this thing happened. That to me is where I go, holy fuck. Because
01:42:46I think the reason it feels that way is there's no control that if you decide to poke the bear too
01:42:53many, one too many times and it hits you. Okay. At least if I don't poke a bear, I'm not going to
01:42:58get hit. Whereas if I'm just some girl who didn't do anything, didn't try to say something mean to you
01:43:05at Miss Universe. And then the country of Venezuela comes after me, but I was just some girl that had
01:43:10a handbag and there was a card there and now it's gone. And then I'm being manipulated into thinking
01:43:14that I've got a friend and the friend's actually spending all my money and that feels a bit different.
01:43:18Yes. Yes. And that's why I don't do that anymore. But maybe there's something in the
01:43:23subconscious level that I didn't know what, like I had a reason for it, but nothing comes to mind.
01:43:29Could have been jealous of her. Could have been something else.
01:43:30Could have been anything really.
01:43:32Do you ever wish that you could feel normal emotions and care for people like a typical human?
01:43:39I feel like I already do that for people who are worthy of it. Like I don't do it for like,
01:43:45what am I going to get out of being kind to someone who's not going to like support me?
01:43:49She's not going to be in my corner when I need them. It's very, um, it's just time consuming to
01:43:55care for many, many people. And sometimes do I wish I could not be behind a glass wall? Sure.
01:44:02It's lonely. Sometimes it is. And people don't realize that. People don't realize how like hard
01:44:08it is to actually deal with this disorder and people try to fake it and they want it. And it's like,
01:44:15it's actual hell. Like you never actually feel like a full functioning person. I feel like I didn't
01:44:23really grow up either. Like I talk to friends that I've, you know, I haven't talked to them in years
01:44:28and they will have like children and they're doing all of this and I'm still in the same mindset. And
01:44:33it's like, it's really frustrating, even though I've achieved quite a lot since then. Like, I like,
01:44:39you know, I was on my dream, uh, show the other day on Sean Hannity, because I used to watch him with
01:44:45my dad when I was little. And so that was like amazing. And I do all of that stuff. And I've,
01:44:51you know, been at the trials of Ghislaine Maxwell. Like I've, I've done all of this stuff. I was
01:44:56literally in her bathtub to get a photo. Um. Consensually?
01:45:01Well, she wasn't there. She was in prison. So her house was up for sale. So it was like the perfect
01:45:08time to go in and get evidence. You treated it like a museum. Yeah, exactly. Interesting. Yeah.
01:45:13I was just trying to see like the logistics of that bathtub and how many people it could fit
01:45:18because Virginia Giuffre and, uh, was saying that Prince Andrew had her in that bathtub. And so I was
01:45:26just trying to see if that like, you know, panned out. What did you discover? I could barely fit.
01:45:33I'm five foot. As far as I know, Prince, Prince Andrew was six foot and Virginia was five, eight.
01:45:40So if I struggled in there, I. That feels like a flimsy bathtub
01:45:45for somebody that's got a lot of money. Her house. Did you judge her?
01:45:49Yeah. Her house is trash, but it's in Kensington. So it's like. Expensive postcard. Yeah, exactly.
01:45:54So I understand about, I think I've got normal emotions. I think I do have emotions for the people
01:46:00that I care about. Do you know the difference between a local maxima and global maxima?
01:46:05Yes. Cool. So you can only optimize the things that you know. Exactly.
01:46:10Stuff that you don't know, you can't optimize for. And sometimes you're stuck inside of a local maxima.
01:46:15There might be a higher high or more returns that you can get by trying a different approach. But if
01:46:20you don't know the approach, you're constrained by what you know. Yes. I'm wondering, I'm trying to
01:46:25give you a very utilitarian justification for perhaps broadening that. I like that.
01:46:32That it does make sense to do things for people, even if you were looking at it totally sterilely,
01:46:39apart from the fact it's good and pro-social and rah, rah, rah. It makes sense to do things for people
01:46:45that you can't see a direct return from, especially if they're different on new things, because you don't
01:46:50know what you don't know, and you don't fully understand how that repercussion could come back
01:46:55around. Many times you talked about somebody from nine years ago that you've forgotten about is still
01:46:59being affected by you. You might not have known nine years ago that that would be the case. So you had
01:47:03a local maxima there and there's a global maxima that's higher by doing something you didn't know
01:47:06about. The same thing can happen in the positive way too. You go, I'm just going to, you know,
01:47:11I'm just going to do this thing for a friend and maybe they pay me back, maybe they don't. And then
01:47:15something happens. The return that comes back around from this, even if you couldn't have done the calculus,
01:47:20being unbelievably positive for you in your life. So I wonder whether you're going to slowly
01:47:26accumulate more of these algorithms where you go, huh? Because what you're doing basically is a very
01:47:34slow walk of pro-social human evolution just inside of one person. Like you're having to learn it step
01:47:42by step by step, as opposed to being bootloaded with the source code that most of us have got.
01:47:47Absolutely.
01:47:48And I'm, what I'm interested in is first off, if you make it to the end of life without getting into
01:47:53some like real, real trouble, but secondly, how far along that you get, it's like how many
01:48:01human, normal human behaviors are you going to learn psychologically through deliberate practice?
01:48:09And because you said before you had, uh, physical, um, and like criminal tendencies more so they became
01:48:18a little bit more domesticated. Okay. Now I've got friends. Okay. Now I've got a partner. Okay. Now
01:48:21I've got, now I've got, now I've got, now I've got responsibilities.
01:48:23Exactly. And you go, okay, how far along are you going to get through life? I think that's kind of.
01:48:28That's actually a great question. So I think that like the Christianity really helped and Charlie
01:48:34Kirk really helped get me there. It was the fact that, you know, he, he would say like,
01:48:40do one good thing every day for somebody. And the thing is, I am, I love showering people with gifts
01:48:45and I love like taking care of them. Even if I know that I, they could pay me back maybe,
01:48:52but there's just like, I just like that. So sometimes like with the love bombing, sometimes it's like,
01:48:57I'm genuinely excited because I'm so flat that things will sort of, I need things to happen to
01:49:03actually feel anything. But in terms of actually developing pro-social behaviors and learning from
01:49:09other people, I feel like I'm doing that. I feel like I'm doing that on a regular basis. I feel like
01:49:14the, uh, the traditions and the authority of the Orthodox church is helping me like being,
01:49:21because I actually love hierarchies. I love hierarchies. I love.
01:49:26Presumably if you're quite high up them.
01:49:28Um, but the thing is, it's like, there's this discipline that it teaches you that I don't have
01:49:34and I want to learn it. So you have to stand for two hours.
01:49:37You have to submit.
01:49:38Yeah. Yeah. You have to stand for two hours for the service. There's no, you don't sit down.
01:49:42There's no pews. Um, you have to fast Wednesdays and Fridays. That's a, that's a way to reduce
01:49:48gluttony. Um, and that, that the church is a hospital. So if you're sick or if you committed
01:49:55sins, like what I have, they don't treat you like a criminal. They treat you like a person
01:49:59who needs help at a hospital. Um, and the priest, they don't judge you.
01:50:03So it seems, it seems to me that the forgiveness element is a big part of that, but how is it
01:50:10that you're learning the value of forgiveness for you, but not applying that to other people?
01:50:14If this is now the new thing, which is one of the biggest life changes that you've gone through,
01:50:19I would assume, okay.
01:50:21I'm trying.
01:50:21I'm trying to receive. I am trying to be more like forgiving to people, like to pray.
01:50:29How's that going?
01:50:31It's hard because my priest says, if you can't pray for them, just pray for yourself. And they're
01:50:36like, you harbor less hatred for them until you are at a point where you can pray for them.
01:50:41And I just feel really connected to them because like, I love the advice that they give. I love
01:50:48that it's like a spiritual father. So I have my natural father. I've got a spiritual father who
01:50:53I can run decisions by if they're like, you know, something that would be harmful to other people.
01:50:57Like, I like having that as a sort of restriction. And I like the stability of the church. It hasn't
01:51:03changed in 2000 years. So there's like, there's this sense of traditional circumstances, traditional
01:51:13like values that I had in my home. I don't think that necessarily I can do everything a normal human
01:51:22can do. Like we love in our own way. We have care for people in our own way. It's just a lot of people
01:51:29don't make the cut, unfortunately. And I'm trying to get to that stage where I'm able to do far more
01:51:37good than bad. And I feel like I'm well on my way to that.
01:51:42I've heard that you're some special type of soprano as well.
01:51:45The coloratura.
01:51:46Can I hear what that sounds like?
01:51:59I can't do that.
01:52:00No, nobody can.
01:52:02Kanika Batra, ladies and gentlemen. What's coming up next for you? Like, what do you want out of the
01:52:09next couple of?
01:52:10I want to write another book. I want to be a commentator politically for the conservative
01:52:16movement because it's got a big rift in it at the moment. And I would like to ideally be on the way
01:52:24to having a family and be baptized into the Orthodox Church.
01:52:29I'll be watching with interest. I appreciate you very much. Where should people go to check out
01:52:33everything you do?
01:52:34Everything's on my Instagram. My website is kanikarose.com. It has my book on it. It has
01:52:40the consilium where I teach you how to avoid manipulation and how to, like, get your freedom
01:52:47back from the cage that is your brain.
01:52:49Thank you.
01:52:50Thank you.
01:52:50Thank you.
01:52:51Congratulations. You made it to the end of a podcast episode without dying. Now, here's another one.
01:52:58Go on. Watch it.
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