Transcript
00:00:00Tell me about your history.
00:00:02How did you get to where you are today?
00:00:04Yeah, so I grew up in the San Gabriel Valley,
00:00:07east side of LA, some project housing.
00:00:10And I grew up kind of not the stereotypical Asian.
00:00:13Like I didn't like anime and I didn't like mathematics.
00:00:16I liked guns and gangbanging basically.
00:00:18And it's prior to that is because my parents
00:00:21were immigrant parents.
00:00:23They did not fend very well,
00:00:27obviously landed in poverty.
00:00:28They came with the American dream in mind,
00:00:30realizing that it's not as simple
00:00:32as other people were portraying it,
00:00:34like our family back home.
00:00:37So yeah, we landed in the projects.
00:00:39They didn't understand gang violence, gang culture.
00:00:41They just thought, oh, this place is cheap.
00:00:43The government helps us.
00:00:45Why not?
00:00:46Land there and my dad, he was a chef by trade,
00:00:51but he tries to do everything that a man can do, right?
00:00:55Provide for his family.
00:00:56He starts to develop this addiction, which is to alcohol.
00:01:01He's drinking soju all the time.
00:01:03And then he starts like beating my mom, beating me,
00:01:06beat my brother.
00:01:07Basically, he had a lot of,
00:01:10I remember it like kind of like a victimized mindset
00:01:14where he's like, I came to this place,
00:01:16I tried my best.
00:01:17And now like everybody's out to get me.
00:01:19Like he broke all of his friendships with his friends.
00:01:22I remember he would just blame everybody, blame everybody.
00:01:26Was the alcoholism a response to him feeling like things
00:01:30were slipping through his fingers?
00:01:31Yeah, yeah, it was.
00:01:32And then he would talk about certain things in the past
00:01:34that I didn't, I was too young,
00:01:35but I remember he would say certain things like,
00:01:37I never meant to do that.
00:01:39He would keep saying these types of things.
00:01:40And I'm like, okay, whatever.
00:01:42You know, you're a kid, you don't understand.
00:01:43And then he ends up, you know, just kind of full fledged,
00:01:48like, you know, broke my mom's ribs, you know,
00:01:50he's like beat my brother really bad
00:01:52before he's beat me really, really bad.
00:01:54And so I kind of get to this position where I'm like,
00:01:57all right, I'm like eight years old.
00:01:59I can't really like, you know, depend on my dad
00:02:02because I know he's going to go kind of crazy.
00:02:04So I try to just hang out in the streets.
00:02:06And I think at eight years old
00:02:08was when I started to fight more.
00:02:09I got suspended when I was 10 years old.
00:02:12And I just started to kind of hang around that.
00:02:15And a lot of people don't know,
00:02:16but in LA around like the nineties was gang culture.
00:02:19It was just crazy.
00:02:20That was when Snoop Dogg and, you know,
00:02:23Tupac and this gangster rap was hitting the scene.
00:02:25And so it literally came like a wave
00:02:28as well as crack cocaine, meth,
00:02:30going through, rapping through the neighborhood.
00:02:33And so, you know, we started to kind of see a shift
00:02:36in the area where people were just being more crazier, right?
00:02:41So, you know, the one event that made me kind of solidify
00:02:44that I couldn't trust my dad and my mom either
00:02:47is at 10 years old, I remember walking from High Hole Market,
00:02:52which is this market near my area in the hood.
00:02:55And these kids pull up on me in a car and they beat me.
00:02:59These four kids beat the dog crap out of me.
00:03:02And, you know, I get jumped for the first time
00:03:04and they take my backpack, they take my shoes.
00:03:07And so I end up, you know, walking home barefoot,
00:03:11bloody nose, whatever, ripped shirt.
00:03:14And, you know, my dad, he asks me, right?
00:03:18He goes, where's your clothes?
00:03:19Where's your stuff?
00:03:19Like, what happened?
00:03:20Are you fighting again?
00:03:21And I was like, yes, but I got jumped.
00:03:24And for him, he couldn't understand
00:03:27why kids would do this to kids.
00:03:29Like, I'm 10 years old, why would anyone just come and beat us up?
00:03:33What my dad didn't know at the time was that
00:03:35there was a war between the Asians and the Mexicans.
00:03:38So it was just solely, they were just preying on us, you know, unfortunately.
00:03:43Even though you weren't a part of it.
00:03:45Yeah.
00:03:45Because of your rights, you were a part of it.
00:03:47Yes, exactly.
00:03:48So, and a lot of kids during that time,
00:03:50through the green light era is what we call it,
00:03:52is they were getting beat up.
00:03:53And so, and that's because two gangs were, you know, going at each other.
00:03:58But, you know, my dad's like, I remember him saying vividly,
00:04:02when are you going to stop lying?
00:04:04And then he's like, today's the day you're going to stop lying.
00:04:06And I'm going to beat it out of you.
00:04:08So I got jumped.
00:04:09And then when I, you know, went home, my dad basically beat me.
00:04:13And then during that time, I just remember it was a different thing.
00:04:16Like, I was used to the beatings.
00:04:17But I think at that time, I understood, like,
00:04:19I can't say anything to my dad anymore.
00:04:21He's just not there.
00:04:22My mom obviously would kind of help him beat on me
00:04:26because how he saw it was like,
00:04:28if you're not helping me hit the kid,
00:04:30then, like, you're not supporting me, right?
00:04:33And so she would actually do the same, unfortunately,
00:04:35me and my brother.
00:04:36And so, you know, I was like, okay, I can't trust them.
00:04:39I started staying out more.
00:04:41I just had this internalized rage.
00:04:42Like, I would fight.
00:04:43And it was no longer, like, fun to fight anymore.
00:04:46It was more, like, survival.
00:04:48I was trying to, like, kill the person.
00:04:50And it just took it up as much.
00:04:52At 10 years old.
00:04:53Yeah.
00:04:53And then two years into it, I'm fighting.
00:04:56I'm getting suspended.
00:04:57My dad's beating me up.
00:04:58And I almost took it as, like, all right, you're going to beat me up.
00:05:02Like, whatever.
00:05:03It's just part of it.
00:05:04I get out.
00:05:05Go to the, you know, stores.
00:05:08I go to, like, wherever I go, I'm literally just being mischievous.
00:05:11I'm stealing, carrying a knife to school.
00:05:15All this stuff.
00:05:16At 12 years old, you start to kind of see the shift in my life where the gangs are noticing.
00:05:23Because what they do is they kind of prey on the kids.
00:05:26They look at them and they go, okay, this guy's getting in trouble.
00:05:28You know, he's fighting more.
00:05:30And they were basically trying to, like, recruit me.
00:05:33Well, they're not going to try and recruit the kid that stays at home, goes to bed at 8 o'clock.
00:05:37Of course.
00:05:37He reads his books.
00:05:38Yeah.
00:05:39Yeah.
00:05:39So, at that time, I remember the first encounter was they banged on me, which means, like, they basically test you, right?
00:05:46They know you're not from anywhere, but they want to see.
00:05:48So, I remember they pulled out guns on me and they were just like, where are you from?
00:05:52Which means, you know, what gang?
00:05:53And I froze, obviously.
00:05:55And I was like, I didn't say anything.
00:05:58And then they're like, you ain't from anywhere?
00:05:59And I'm like, no, do you gangbang?
00:06:00I'm like, no, I don't gangbang.
00:06:02And then they're like, you want to kick it?
00:06:04Which means let's hang out, you know?
00:06:06And, of course, I was just like.
00:06:07How old were these guys?
00:06:08They were, I think, it was four of the homies.
00:06:10So, I remember, I think he was 16, 15, 15, and 14.
00:06:15So, they was just kids as well, right?
00:06:17And so, yeah, they were like, let's hang out.
00:06:20I remember getting into the white Honda Civic in the back.
00:06:23And they started introducing.
00:06:25They called me this guy and this guy and this guy.
00:06:27And they told me their names.
00:06:28And I was like, cool.
00:06:30They're like, let's go hang out.
00:06:31I remember they took me out to eat.
00:06:33And then the older dude, he was 16, brought me to his uncle.
00:06:37And his uncle was one of the shot callers, meaning, like, the OGs.
00:06:40And he was, like, the nicest guy.
00:06:43I remember.
00:06:43I was like, this guy's tatted up.
00:06:45He's done prison time.
00:06:46He's big, built.
00:06:47A man's man.
00:06:48But he's like, what's up, man?
00:06:49Like, super soft, super respectful.
00:06:52And he's like, you know what?
00:06:53Like, are you hungry?
00:06:54And they're like, no, we took him to eat.
00:06:56He's like, okay, cool.
00:06:57And he pulls out a wad of cash and he pulls out $100 and he gives it to me.
00:07:01And then he goes, bro, like, I hope you understand that, like, when you're with us, you're family.
00:07:06And I remember him saying that to me.
00:07:08And I was like, whoa, this guy is awesome.
00:07:10He's respectful.
00:07:12He's got a pistol on his hip.
00:07:13Like, everyone respects this dude.
00:07:15And I think at that moment, I kind of fell in love with it, right?
00:07:18And he's being gentle to you as well.
00:07:19Very gentle.
00:07:20Very respectful.
00:07:21Very gentle.
00:07:22And I just, of course, I'm, you know, 12 years old.
00:07:25And I'm, like, thinking, this guy is cool, you know?
00:07:27And I remember in the car ride back when they were dropping me off, I'm like, man, the big homie, he's so cool.
00:07:32He's so cool.
00:07:33I just kept saying this, you know?
00:07:35They're like, yeah, he's amazing.
00:07:36But obviously, it was just kind of, like, coercing me into it.
00:07:40In retrospect, do you see that as predatory and coercive or caring when there's a kid who doesn't have a father that's looking after him?
00:07:51Well, I mean, he rests his soul, but he was known for doing that.
00:07:55And so he brought a lot of the homies into the hood, and he would use them.
00:07:59Because at the end, that same dude asked me to do a mission, which is do something for me.
00:08:05And he said it.
00:08:06He was like, hey, bro, like, you know, these people are my enemies.
00:08:10And, you know, if you're my homie, they're your enemies.
00:08:12And he started to lace me down as to what gang culture was.
00:08:16And again, I'm like, I don't know who these guys are, but they're just the opposition.
00:08:20So because I love you and you're my homie, like, I'll do it for you, you know?
00:08:24And so through that, that's where I caught my first case.
00:08:28It was this guy.
00:08:28He was like, this guy thinks he's all that.
00:08:30You know, he's a well-known drug dealer in our neighborhood.
00:08:33And he's like, he's stepping on our toes, and he's trying to do this.
00:08:36So we got to go and take him, kidnap him, basically, and then steal all of his stuff, you know?
00:08:41And if we have to beat him up or kill him, it is what it is.
00:08:44So I remember that was the first mission that I did.
00:08:47Unfortunately, that was the first time I got caught, too.
00:08:49And so we all got caught.
00:08:50It was six of us.
00:08:51At that time, it was the first time I learned about RICO.
00:08:55So RICO Act is when, you know, the government, they used it to take down, like, the Sicilian mob and the Italian mafia, right?
00:09:02In America, it's basically, like, Homeland Security, FBI, CIA.
00:09:06They worked together to take down these gangs.
00:09:08We were getting RICO'd, and I didn't know that.
00:09:10I'm 12 years old.
00:09:11And so when I get caught, all my friends are telling me, yo, you're going to do, like, a few months.
00:09:17You're a kid.
00:09:18Like, it's not going to be that big of a deal.
00:09:20You didn't smoke nobody and kill nobody.
00:09:22You didn't do anything, right?
00:09:23But then they hit me with kidnapping and robbery.
00:09:26And I'm like, whoa.
00:09:27And then it carried a pretty hefty sentence.
00:09:29And that's the first time I heard YA, which is California Youth Authority.
00:09:33And then my friends were like, oh, shoot, you're going to YA.
00:09:38And then they were all shocked because it was my first offense.
00:09:40I shouldn't have been going to YA.
00:09:43YA is, like, where, you know, kids kill their parents and, like, burn the house down.
00:09:46It's, like, the worst of the worst.
00:09:48Serial killers.
00:09:48Kid, child serial killers would be in there.
00:09:51Just crazy stuff.
00:09:52And so they had me going there solely because of the RICO Act.
00:09:55So they were, like, this guy.
00:09:56I remember hearing, like, he's a child assassin.
00:09:59You know, they're training him to be this and this and this gang.
00:10:02And they would line up cases of my friends who were already indicted and doing prison time.
00:10:07And they were all in there for murder.
00:10:08So they're, like, these are his friends.
00:10:09That's the path that this kid is on.
00:10:12We need to get out ahead of it.
00:10:13Yes, exactly.
00:10:14Guilt by association.
00:10:15Yeah.
00:10:15And then so they basically were, like, yeah, it makes sense.
00:10:18You know, they're, like, look at him.
00:10:19He's, like, young looking.
00:10:21But he doesn't listen.
00:10:23He doesn't, you know, he has a good child.
00:10:24They're just, like, throwing this out there.
00:10:26Killer and waiting.
00:10:26Yeah.
00:10:27And I'm, like, what the heck is going on?
00:10:30And then I hear four years.
00:10:31They're, like, okay, you're going to get four years for this.
00:10:34You're going to plea out, basically.
00:10:35And I took, basically, a dissuading witness for the benefit of a gang.
00:10:38It was a lesser charge.
00:10:40And then they said, you're going to have to do 50% of that halftime.
00:10:44And, you know, and the judge was just, like, I hope you can learn your lesson.
00:10:48You know, because where you're going, he's, like, it's very rough.
00:10:51So I ended up going to SRCC, which is Southern Reception, which is California Youth Authority.
00:10:56From there, you fight.
00:10:58Right off, we get off the bus.
00:11:01People are just, like, you know, testing me.
00:11:04That's what they ask.
00:11:05Where are you from?
00:11:06And I'm just, like, oh, from watching.
00:11:08And they're, like, what?
00:11:08And then they just crack me.
00:11:10Boom.
00:11:10And I'm, like, what's going on?
00:11:11And I don't even know where this guy's from.
00:11:12We're fighting.
00:11:13And then it comes back, like, two minutes later, the guy's, like, hey, you fought my friend.
00:11:18Like, I'm his homie.
00:11:20You got to fight me.
00:11:20So it's called lining it up.
00:11:22So I remember the first night that I was locked.
00:11:23That's the first time.
00:11:24First night.
00:11:25Yeah, yeah.
00:11:25First day.
00:11:26And I'm, like, oh.
00:11:27So it's called a romfla, which means a car in Spanish.
00:11:30And basically what it is is if you fight this one guy, you have to fight all of his friends, too.
00:11:36And I didn't know that.
00:11:37And so I'm in there.
00:11:39And I think I fought, like, six to eight people the first night.
00:11:43And I'm just, like.
00:11:43How old were they?
00:11:44They were between also, like, 12, 13.
00:11:47I think the oldest one I fought was 16.
00:11:50He beat me up bad, obviously.
00:11:5112 and 16-year-old.
00:11:52No match, you know.
00:11:53And then, yeah.
00:11:55You do that.
00:11:55And then the second day, I fought four people.
00:11:58And then after that, it was, like, okay, he has respect.
00:12:01He's going to fight.
00:12:02But then I saw people who wouldn't fight.
00:12:04And unfortunately, they would get taken advantage of.
00:12:06Whether it's people would steal from them or I would witness people, like, being them as well.
00:12:12Right?
00:12:13So, you know, you grow up in that environment.
00:12:15And I'm thinking, okay, I just got to get through this for, like, two years.
00:12:19Right?
00:12:19And I remember saying that to one of the older homies who was in there.
00:12:23He was, like, he had the keys, meaning, like, he controlled, like, the little clique that we had in there, like, the Asians.
00:12:29And he goes, bro.
00:12:30And I remember this vividly.
00:12:31He goes, forget about your life.
00:12:33Like, once you get here, like, it's over for you.
00:12:37You're either going to catch a murder or you're going to, like, catch more time.
00:12:40Because YA, it does something to you.
00:12:42I remember him saying that.
00:12:44And it's true because I would see the COs, correctional officers, doing, like, wicked things.
00:12:49They would pit us against each other and call it gladiator school where we're fighting each other.
00:12:53And they would bet on us.
00:12:55You know?
00:12:55It's just, it was bad.
00:12:56How did it change you?
00:12:58I remember it just made me more, like, if I just had the thought that someone was disrespecting me, they didn't even have to.
00:13:07If I just felt it or anyone felt it, you'd take off.
00:13:10So, it was very violent.
00:13:12And, again, within those four years, I think I fought, like, 40-plus people.
00:13:16Right?
00:13:17And it's just like, did you say something?
00:13:19What?
00:13:20And then you crack them.
00:13:21It's just, there is no talking in there.
00:13:23It's all gangbanging.
00:13:24And then new people would come in, which we call fish.
00:13:27They'll come in and we'll do the same thing.
00:13:28Hey, where are you from?
00:13:29Oh, you're an enemy.
00:13:30We won't say anything.
00:13:30Crack them.
00:13:31Boom.
00:13:31We start fighting.
00:13:32And so, it made me deal with, like, violence as, like, a universal language.
00:13:37Right?
00:13:38It's like, you don't have to talk.
00:13:39You don't need, just beat them up and then everyone's going to praise you.
00:13:43And then it felt like I fit in.
00:13:46Right?
00:13:46I'm like, oh, wow.
00:13:47I could beat this guy up.
00:13:48And people are like, wow, that's Johnny.
00:13:49He did this.
00:13:50He did that.
00:13:50And so, I felt a sense of, as weird as it is, pride to be able to do something like that.
00:13:56And so, I get out of prison, you know, California Youth Authority.
00:14:00And I remember trying to just, you know, they parole me back to my mom's place.
00:14:06My dad, at this time, hasn't really visited me or anything.
00:14:10He's just, you know, like, still being drunk and doing his own thing.
00:14:13My mom starts to take Buddhism way more serious.
00:14:17Like, she was serious about Buddhism, but she was like, when I came, she was like, zenned out, right?
00:14:22Like, oh, there's karma and put your shoes here.
00:14:25And there's, there's a feng shui and, you know, and I'm like, okay.
00:14:28And I last 67 days, two months in a week.
00:14:33And I end up doing a freeway shooting.
00:14:36And this time I'm 16 going on 17.
00:14:39And they basically bring up all my past again.
00:14:43They try me.
00:14:44Is it the same gang?
00:14:45The same group?
00:14:46Same, same neighborhood.
00:14:46Yeah, so when you're in a gang, you're, most of the time you're in it for life, right?
00:14:50So it's just how it is.
00:14:53And so same gang, I end up doing a shooting.
00:14:55But this time it wasn't them telling me.
00:14:57This was transparently just me looking, having the YA mentality, which is this car was driving on the 60 freeway.
00:15:04And I remember they were just stacking, which is like throwing up gang signs.
00:15:07It's Mexicans.
00:15:08And at that time we were, again, at war with these people.
00:15:11So I remember seeing them and then they were like looking at me.
00:15:14It was two guys in the car and I had the gun on me.
00:15:16And I was just like kind of stacking back at them.
00:15:19And then I was like, man, F this.
00:15:20And I just started shooting at them.
00:15:23And then I went on the run.
00:15:25Obviously, like it was my dad's car that I took for a joyride.
00:15:29So the warrant came back to the address and, you know, they basically.
00:15:33Do you think those, those guys in the car rang you in?
00:15:36I don't think so.
00:15:38How did the police find out that it was you?
00:15:39I mean, I mean, it was on the freeway.
00:15:41So I'm pretty sure.
00:15:42Someone else saw it.
00:15:43Yeah.
00:15:44It's like, it's like in front of everyone.
00:15:45I didn't see you were moving.
00:15:46Yeah.
00:15:47I was shooting at a moving vehicle.
00:15:48So they charged me with attempted murder, obviously.
00:15:52Shooting at an inhabited vehicle.
00:15:54Shooting in a public space.
00:15:56Yeah.
00:15:56There's all the cars behind.
00:15:57All this stuff.
00:15:59And I'm just like, holy moly.
00:16:00And then I was looking at 19 to life for one charge.
00:16:03And then 25 for the other.
00:16:04It was just stacked up against me.
00:16:06Yeah.
00:16:07And I'm like, oh, okay.
00:16:08So now I'm fearful because obviously like I've done YA, but I've heard stuff about prison.
00:16:15Prison is like the big boys.
00:16:16And I thought I would just go back to YA.
00:16:19Maybe I can handle the stretch.
00:16:20You're just 16 still?
00:16:2116.
00:16:22Yeah.
00:16:22Going on 17.
00:16:23And they're like, no, we're going to try you as an adult.
00:16:26Again, the first time I ever heard that.
00:16:28I'm like, I'm not an adult though, but they're like, we're going to try you.
00:16:31And during that time and that era, it started to become, right?
00:16:36Because it was just like, yeah, these guys are wild.
00:16:39So they know what they're doing.
00:16:41It doesn't matter if their frontal lobe is developed or whatever.
00:16:43It's just what it is.
00:16:44Right.
00:16:44And so, yeah, I get tried and I get sentenced and I get points and they're like, you go to
00:16:50level four, which is maximum security.
00:16:52I'm a kid, kid.
00:16:53Right.
00:16:54And it takes like a few months, obviously.
00:16:57And when I hit prison, I'm 17.
00:16:59I plea out for basically two counts of assault with deadly weapon.
00:17:05They give me 10 years.
00:17:07I have to do 85% of that.
00:17:09So I just did four, got out.
00:17:12Now I'm doing 10, basically.
00:17:14Minimum eight years, depending on my behavior.
00:17:16I might do the full.
00:17:16I might catch another case and get washed and do life.
00:17:19I mean, it's just, we don't know.
00:17:21Yeah.
00:17:21And then I get up in there and I get laced down.
00:17:25It's completely different.
00:17:26The first day I get in there, I'm like, oh, that guy, he's from this gang, which is a
00:17:30rival gang of ours.
00:17:32All right.
00:17:32I'm going to take off on them.
00:17:33And the guy who was leading me through the prison was like, that's a no, no.
00:17:37And I'm like, what?
00:17:39I'm a YA baby.
00:17:40And he goes, you guys need to calm your ass down.
00:17:42That's literally what he said.
00:17:43He goes, in prison, it's race, California specifically, it's race against other races.
00:17:50All that gang stuff gets dropped.
00:17:52Like, yes, you're in your hood and you represent, but you don't fight each other.
00:17:55I'm like, but he shot my cousin.
00:17:57Like, it doesn't matter.
00:17:59It's like that, that's all, this is the politics.
00:18:01And that's the first time I learned what politicking is in prison.
00:18:04It's like, no, even though you're enemy, you have to back them up.
00:18:08And again, it shook my world upside down.
00:18:10Right.
00:18:10I'm like, it was, I was cool with my gang being against everybody.
00:18:13That's cool.
00:18:14I like that.
00:18:14But now I got to be cool with these guys.
00:18:16And I got to, so for the first two years, I didn't program well, went to the shoe a lot,
00:18:21the whole program.
00:18:22Proning means, it means like, like going with the program, meaning like you have to stick
00:18:27with the rules and regulations.
00:18:28I wasn't really good at that.
00:18:30I was still fighting my cellmates and which is, you can't do the stuff like that.
00:18:33I would get disciplined.
00:18:35They call it DP, discipline, where if you do something to your cellmate or you act out
00:18:39of character, these guys will beat you up.
00:18:42And so I was getting beat up a lot because I was just a knucklehead.
00:18:44And so.
00:18:45And this is the, uh, the training, the, the, uh, rhythm of life that you learned in YA.
00:18:51Yes.
00:18:51Now being ported across into prison.
00:18:53Yeah.
00:18:53And they knew, they were like, you're a YA baby, aren't you?
00:18:56And I'm like, yeah.
00:18:56And they're like, you have to calm down.
00:18:58You will die in here.
00:18:59And I think, uh, you know.
00:19:01Seems like it's less violent, but more lethal.
00:19:03Yes.
00:19:04In prison.
00:19:04Yes, yes, yes.
00:19:05That's a good way to put it.
00:19:06It was definitely less violent, but more lethal.
00:19:09And when it was violent, it was race against race.
00:19:12So there is no friendlies as we call it, meaning one-on-ones.
00:19:16It's like, Hey, if you disrespect me, the whole race goes to war.
00:19:20So I would see riots, right?
00:19:23One guy did something, Hey, you stepped into my, out of bounds.
00:19:25You went to my area and then they'll disrespect.
00:19:28And then everybody goes to war, blacks, Mexicans, whites, whatever, all together.
00:19:32So yeah, it was, it was crazier.
00:19:34But because of that, there was also this mutual level of respect where it's like, okay, you're
00:19:39dangerous and we're dangerous.
00:19:41Like, let's just play with this.
00:19:42Yeah.
00:19:43Yeah.
00:19:43Tell me if this sounds familiar.
00:19:45You train regularly.
00:19:46You eat reasonably well.
00:19:48You feel fine, but you're just kind of going off vibes.
00:19:51Most people have absolutely no idea what's going on inside their body.
00:19:55And that is why I partnered with Function.
00:19:56Function gives you access to more than 160 advanced lab tests, spanning hormones, heart
00:20:01health, kidney function, and even detects early signals linked to more than 50 types of cancer.
00:20:06To put that in perspective, your typical annual physical might test 20 markers.
00:20:10Function runs over 160.
00:20:12It's huge.
00:20:13Best of all, you test twice a year and everything lives inside of a simple dashboard.
00:20:16So you track trends over time, make sure you're moving in the right direction.
00:20:19And this level of testing would usually cost thousands, but with Function, it is $365
00:20:23per year.
00:20:24Just $1 a day to actually know what's happening inside of your body.
00:20:27And right now you can get $25 off, bringing it down to $340.
00:20:31Get the exact same blood panels that I use and save $25 by going to the link in the description
00:20:36below or heading to functionhealth.com slash modern wisdom.
00:20:39That's functionhealth.com slash modern wisdom.
00:20:43What's the real status hierarchy inside of prison?
00:20:47I mean, it depends, right?
00:20:48Like general population is where you go there and you don't have a jacket.
00:20:53Now a jacket is any charge that's very bad.
00:20:55Like for example, uh, molestation charges, snitching, um, dropouts, meaning turning away.
00:21:03Those are like the bottom of the bottom.
00:21:05GP is top of the bottom.
00:21:07Meaning like gang members, um, you know, extortionists, loan shark, whatever they can be at the top only because they're solid and 10 toes, as we say.
00:21:17But if, yeah, if you're doing things like crimes against women, you're seen as like the bottom of the barrel.
00:21:22And you can't even be in general population, uh, because they'll roll you off the yard, which means if they find out and they check your paperwork, which the first couple of months you have to walk around with, uh, it's like a manila folder.
00:21:34It's a C file criminal file.
00:21:36You carry it on the yard.
00:21:37This is again, only California.
00:21:38Usually, um, they have a different system.
00:21:41So carrying home walk around.
00:21:42Yeah.
00:21:43And then they, people who have the keys or representatives like Mac reps, block reps, they'll open it and be like, okay, he's good to stay.
00:21:51If you're no good, which means you have that jacket, you get rolled off, but nine times out of 10, the correctional officers know they're not going to let some random dude come into general population.
00:22:00Cause it's like sharks.
00:22:01You'd have like a guppy in a shark tank, right?
00:22:03So they'll put you in S and Y special needs and sensitive and, and, or PC protective custody.
00:22:10Um, but yeah, I was in general population.
00:22:12They call it mainline.
00:22:14So on the mainline, there's different politics and then PC.
00:22:17I don't know.
00:22:18I've never been, but they have their own politics too.
00:22:21Um, but basically, yeah, if you're a snitch, if you're no good, if you've, uh, defected from the gang, if you, you know, did crimes against women or children, you are definitely not going to be with the, the, the, the.
00:22:33Do you know the word nonce?
00:22:34Do you know what that is?
00:22:35Nonce.
00:22:35Okay.
00:22:36So it's a, like a British slang word for a pedophile, but it's a, it's an acronym and it stands for not on normal courtyard exercise.
00:22:47Okay.
00:22:48So that's not too dissimilar to this.
00:22:49It's not a normal courtyard exercise.
00:22:51Yes.
00:22:52Uh, so they're kept off to one side.
00:22:54Yeah.
00:22:54Yeah.
00:22:54Yeah.
00:22:54What, um, what behavior or behaviors make someone look weak inside?
00:22:59In prison?
00:23:00Yeah.
00:23:00So two things.
00:23:01Um, if you back down from anything.
00:23:03So when they ask you to raise your hand, meaning to volunteer for a stabbing, uh, because somebody
00:23:10was in there in general population, but turned snitch or ran up a drug debt and then they do
00:23:15something crazy and they don't pay it back.
00:23:17You have to kind of take care of these people.
00:23:19It's called cleaning house.
00:23:20Right.
00:23:21Um, if they don't do it, then you're looked down upon.
00:23:25The second thing is, um, if you don't program correctly, which is, that's part of it.
00:23:30But in the point where if you're sitting there and you know, um, you're not working out, you're
00:23:37lazy, you're not running the program with people.
00:23:40You're not militant.
00:23:41Um, you're not a man.
00:23:42You're not backing yourself up.
00:23:43You're not keeping your word looked down upon.
00:23:46And again, people get rolled off the yard for that.
00:23:48Um, the last thing is also religion.
00:23:51If you go in there and you turn Christian.
00:23:55Big no, no.
00:23:56A lot of people treat you as, I mean, they, they won't treat you like a snitch, but you're
00:24:00like just a little bit of, you're like mid tier.
00:24:03Why?
00:24:04Because it's seen as weak.
00:24:06Um, you know, in prison, you don't have mental health illness, like awareness.
00:24:10They see mental health illnesses as weakness.
00:24:13So in prison, it's all about bravado, right?
00:24:15Hey, I'm, I'm, I don't cry at night.
00:24:17I'm a gangster.
00:24:18And so, um, they basically, you know, if you're like, Hey, I'm Christian now, now you
00:24:24can't program because if you're a true Christian, you can't enact violence on people.
00:24:29Right.
00:24:30So you can't sin as they say.
00:24:32And so, yeah, I would see that.
00:24:34I would see people get rolled off because they're like, I don't want to be part of the
00:24:37program.
00:24:38I would see other people and I would look down on them, you know, transparently when they
00:24:42would be, I would see.
00:24:43Cause you know, in there for a long time, you see people's kind of life's lives change.
00:24:47They'll go from the most craziest people and then become Christian and be turned down.
00:24:51As we say, just, they're just not like that anymore.
00:24:53And they'll do things where they'll, they'll cop an unlock.
00:24:56They'll get an unlock to go to church to avoid riot days.
00:25:00And like, it's like, Oh, I'm in church though.
00:25:02You know?
00:25:02So we would really look down on them and be like, you guys are just women.
00:25:06How quickly does morality change when weakness gets punished?
00:25:11It's, it's very fast.
00:25:13It's swift, right?
00:25:15Um, people go from, I mean, I'll share this story.
00:25:18It's pretty wild, but I remember a dude, he was very respected.
00:25:22Um, he ended up having some allegations brought to him of like stealing.
00:25:27And again, in prison, stealing is also like a no, no.
00:25:30You're stealing from the poor.
00:25:31Like everyone's struggling.
00:25:32Why would you steal?
00:25:33So they were saying he was stealing and no one really believed it at first.
00:25:37But then another guy who was also very solid was like, he is, he stole my stuff.
00:25:42And sure enough, the proof was there.
00:25:45Um, so he didn't, the guy didn't know that the proof was like, they gave the evidence.
00:25:51Right.
00:25:51And so I remember, um, kind of walking past the dude.
00:25:56And then my friend was like, Hey, watch what's going to happen.
00:25:58And I'm like, okay.
00:26:00And so that everyone's shaking his hand.
00:26:02And this other kid, you know, he's young.
00:26:04He just goes up to the guy and then he goes up to him with another older cat.
00:26:08Um, who's like, kind of like a, like a dude who just puts in work.
00:26:12He's like a grunt.
00:26:13Right.
00:26:13And he's like, Hey bro, like big homie.
00:26:15Like you're, you're, you're, he was a really buff guy.
00:26:18You know, the physique back then is like, everyone's really ripped.
00:26:20Cause they're working out.
00:26:21He's like, I bet you can't do a hundred burpees right now.
00:26:25And the guy's like, what are you talking about?
00:26:27Do it right.
00:26:27You're challenging me.
00:26:28All right.
00:26:28And he starts doing them.
00:26:29Boom, boom.
00:26:30He's hitting the burpees.
00:26:31And he's getting gassed because it's a lot.
00:26:34And he's like, yeah, yeah.
00:26:35I bet you can't do more.
00:26:36And he's like trying it.
00:26:37Right.
00:26:38And then he gets up and he takes a breath and then the guy stabs him, boom, and hits him
00:26:43in the chest.
00:26:44And that's, that's the first time I've seen someone leak out.
00:26:47So what he was doing was he was getting his heart rate up to like, make sure he would bleed
00:26:51them out quicker.
00:26:53Yeah.
00:26:53So you'll see things like this, you know, it's like, you know, it looks like it's a friendly
00:26:59game, but it's all manipulation.
00:27:02100%.
00:27:02And so when you see stuff like that, it made me go, I'm not trusting anybody.
00:27:06You're not telling me to do this and do that.
00:27:08You're going to do something to me.
00:27:10Right.
00:27:10And so morale, yeah, it goes like this where you're one minute they're fighting on the,
00:27:15on the yard with you and they're stabbing people for you.
00:27:17And then the next minute they're, they're turning it on you.
00:27:19And so it bred this, uh, mindset of you cannot trust anybody.
00:27:24Massive distrust.
00:27:25Doesn't matter.
00:27:26Yeah.
00:27:26Doesn't matter who it is.
00:27:27You cannot trust anybody.
00:27:29Yeah.
00:27:30That's a massive difference.
00:27:31I think maybe a misconception that civilians probably have about prison violence, just how
00:27:36manipulative and insidious it can be.
00:27:38Oh yeah.
00:27:38Yeah.
00:27:39It's very, it's again, like story, there's hundreds of stories like that, where people
00:27:43are just thinking of ways to prey on you.
00:27:45And it really is in prison, predator and prey, unfortunately.
00:27:49Right.
00:27:49You're either, I'm from a era where you either catch a body or you be a body.
00:27:53That's how prison is.
00:27:54It's like, you either kill somebody or you don't, you know, and if you program, you can
00:27:58hide behind the car a little bit.
00:27:59That's just normal.
00:28:00But there are times where your, your, your number gets called.
00:28:04It's just how it is.
00:28:05It just, it's not, you know, every single prison.
00:28:08It's a little bit different, but I can only speak for like four yards in California.
00:28:13How many, how many places were you in?
00:28:15I've been to three.
00:28:19So you go to county jail first, YA, but prisons alone, I've been to like four separate prisons.
00:28:25Yeah.
00:28:26So I've been to one stretch.
00:28:27Yes.
00:28:27Right.
00:28:28Yeah.
00:28:28So level four.
00:28:29And then what happens is your points drop.
00:28:31It's a point system.
00:28:32The more you're like, um, good time and you good behavior, your points will naturally just drop
00:28:38and then you go to level three.
00:28:39So, um, paroling at a level three.
00:28:42Um, but basically, yeah, when your points are really high, you're basically like, if you do
00:28:45murder, extremely high and you're going to go with level four, which is maximum security.
00:28:51Um, it's just the top of the top.
00:28:52And so I'm talking about level four is intense.
00:28:55Like this level three is not as bad, less riots.
00:28:59Um, definitely some fighting.
00:29:01There is riots.
00:29:01It's crazy too, but not where it's all weapons, right?
00:29:04Level four is only stabbings.
00:29:06There is no like, Hey, let's fight.
00:29:08It's like, no, we're going to stab you.
00:29:10So that story I told you happened on a level four.
00:29:12Right.
00:29:13So, yeah.
00:29:13How long were you spending in each?
00:29:15What were you, what was the proposal?
00:29:16Uh, so it was what, four years, no, five years, level four, and then like three, three
00:29:22and a half years, level three.
00:29:24Yeah.
00:29:26What was the most dangerous situation that you found yourself in?
00:29:30Um, probably in a riot.
00:29:32Um, I remember like cracking one off and I don't want to like disclose too much of the
00:29:36names and stuff, but basically it was over a drug debt.
00:29:39And then they basically were like, Hey, Johnny, you know, you, and this was out of some jealousy.
00:29:43I could just tell, um, because when people find out that you're, you're short to the house,
00:29:49which means you're going home very, you know, you're short, like you're going to be home
00:29:53in like a month, two months, three months, whatever it is.
00:29:56They start to feel jealous of you because if they have all day, meaning they're, they're
00:30:01doing life without parole or life.
00:30:03Some people get this idea of like, Oh, you think you're better than us?
00:30:06Like I'm going to make it.
00:30:07So you throw your life away.
00:30:09Right.
00:30:09And so, um, it was purely based off of that.
00:30:12And it was, it was my fault.
00:30:13You know, I told somebody who I trusted, um, early, early on.
00:30:17And I guess he remembered when I was going to get out.
00:30:20And so he, he had LWAP life without, and I remember he also even dropped down in, in
00:30:26points as well.
00:30:27And at the end of it, you know, he was basically like, Hey, there's a drug debt.
00:30:32We got to roll this guy off.
00:30:33Basically.
00:30:34He got to put them, put in work on him.
00:30:37You have to do it.
00:30:38And he was telling me, and I was like, okay.
00:30:40And I wanted to say, I was short to the house, but I was like, I'm going to look like a, don't
00:30:45want to be a bitch.
00:30:46Yeah, exactly.
00:30:46I'm like, I'm going to look like a girl.
00:30:48Right.
00:30:48And so I'm like, all right, I got you.
00:30:51So what's going to happen?
00:30:52Well, you're going to crack it off.
00:30:54And I'm like, all right, cool.
00:30:55Meaning you started.
00:30:56So I remember this dude, huge Samoan dude, right?
00:31:00Big old Uso.
00:31:02He, and, and, um, the homie, I was like, like, this is all manipulation, but I'm like, I'm
00:31:07too deep now.
00:31:08So he's like, you, you, you, you guys go together.
00:31:10All right, cool.
00:31:11Six of us.
00:31:11One of him.
00:31:12He was prunod out, which is, um, like, like drunk.
00:31:16Right.
00:31:16And he was known for, again, running up debt, beating up his cellmates and, but no one would
00:31:21say anything to him because he's huge.
00:31:22Right.
00:31:23Um, and, uh, I remember just going up to him like, what's up, Uso, how you doing?
00:31:27And I shook his hand.
00:31:28And I remember with all my might, I socked him in the face and he just went, like, looked
00:31:34at me and I was like, oh snap.
00:31:36And then he cocked back and then everybody jumped in on him.
00:31:39And I remember this guy is like super strong because we were stomping him out and he had
00:31:45blood in his mouth and he was laughing.
00:31:48He's like, oh guys, oh, stop.
00:31:50Oh, he's like this.
00:31:51And we were just like, damn, this guy is, it took six of us.
00:31:55We still couldn't get them like, you know, uh, completely rolled off.
00:31:59But, you know, uh, then the seals came and the OC pepper spray and gas and all that.
00:32:04But, um, I, you know, stuff like that where it was very sticky.
00:32:08Cause I, again, I cracked it off.
00:32:11I could have, you know, caught a violent charge.
00:32:13That would have been a strikeout for me, right?
00:32:16If they were, if they were to, you know, uh, uh, either snitch or I get caught in the
00:32:21act, um, they would have struck me out.
00:32:24I would have did a minimum of 25 to life there.
00:32:27For that one.
00:32:28And yeah, yeah.
00:32:29That's just, and this is like, because court, even in prison where a lot of people catch
00:32:34life is in, is in, in prison because they think like, well, I'm already in prison.
00:32:38You can't, no, you can trump charges in prison.
00:32:41Uh, people have, I've met many people in there for five years stretch and they get called,
00:32:48their number gets called and they go and they do a stabbing and they end up killing the
00:32:51guy.
00:32:51They get caught for it.
00:32:52And now they have, they went from five years to life, right?
00:32:55It's just how, especially California is like this.
00:32:58And what if you refuse?
00:33:00Um, then you get rolled off, uh, then you get stabbed.
00:33:03Then what's going to come to them is going to come to you.
00:33:05And so for me, it was just very difficult to like, it's like damned if you do damned, if
00:33:10you don't, you got to choose a lesser, the two evils, you know?
00:33:13And, um, yeah, it was more, it was very sadistic in a lot of ways, but also it made me feel like
00:33:18this adrenaline of like, Oh, I can prove myself.
00:33:21Yes.
00:33:21They're using me, but like, I can, I can also do this.
00:33:24Sounds intoxicating.
00:33:25The respect that you get sounds intoxicating.
00:33:27A hundred percent, a hundred percent.
00:33:29Yeah.
00:33:29It's, it's almost like an addiction in itself.
00:33:32Some people I know in there till this day are like, they just raise their hand just
00:33:37to, cause it's, it's like, you, you get infamous for it.
00:33:40Oh, that guy did.
00:33:41Oh, he was in the hole.
00:33:42Whoa.
00:33:42This guy did that.
00:33:43Did you see him?
00:33:43And it just spreads like wildfire.
00:33:46It feels like gangs manufacture belonging better than society does for some men.
00:33:51That's a bar.
00:33:52A hundred percent.
00:33:53Yeah.
00:33:54Yeah.
00:33:55What do you think, uh, what were the hardest things to unlearn after prison?
00:34:03The hardest thing to unlearn was that you have your own back and that you're like the master
00:34:09of your own destiny in prison.
00:34:11You learn, yes, they lock you in, but there's this confidence of like, I made it out.
00:34:16And so there's this heart of, I can do whatever I want.
00:34:20Cause I've been to like the lowest of the low.
00:34:23So there is a pride in it.
00:34:24And it's again, an intoxicating pride and it just feels very high-hearted is the best
00:34:31way to explain it.
00:34:32So I had to unlearn that.
00:34:33I had to unlearn the criminal mindset where it was like, how do I take advantage of this
00:34:40person?
00:34:40So the manipulative mindset was very difficult for me to learn because to unlearn because
00:34:46it's ingrained in you, right?
00:34:48Okay.
00:34:48Well, I'm hungry.
00:34:49So how am I going to hustle?
00:34:50Okay.
00:34:51I'll take this and have this guy, give me these stamps.
00:34:53And then with these stamps, I'll trade it for this person.
00:34:55And I know that person needs money right now.
00:34:58So it's like, it's all the ecosystem.
00:35:00That's the vulnerability that I can exploit here.
00:35:02Yes.
00:35:02And so I think that was the hardest thing was people would come to me like my friends
00:35:07and I would pick up on patterns.
00:35:09Oh, he struggles at nighttime and he wants to do cocaine during these hours.
00:35:13Like not, I'm not even paying attention.
00:35:15It would just come to me.
00:35:17Right.
00:35:17So I think, um, unlearning the manipulation definitely was difficult.
00:35:21The anger, uh, that goes from zero to a hundred and then back to zero was difficult.
00:35:28It's like every little sign of disrespect, the anger, just, you just take it there.
00:35:33How quickly were you able to sleep after something like that happened?
00:35:36Would your head hit the pillow and you'd be able to sleep normally?
00:35:39Yeah.
00:35:39That's when I felt like I was broken was when I did the, like a stabbing in prison.
00:35:43And then I was like, proud of it.
00:35:46And then it was just like, dang, is there something wrong?
00:35:50And there's like that little voice, right?
00:35:51Of like, there's something wrong, but I would, I would like drown that out because I'm like,
00:35:54no, no, no, no, no.
00:35:55I'm, I'm good.
00:35:56Like they deserve, and I would, I would, uh, try to, I guess, pacify myself, but also
00:36:00defend that.
00:36:01No, they, see, they were, they did this.
00:36:03They shouldn't have.
00:36:04Transpication, rationalizing.
00:36:05Yes.
00:36:06And so that was also very difficult.
00:36:08I guess then accountability, right?
00:36:10It's like, how do you, I, I, I remember early on my homies would say that to me and these
00:36:15are other gang members who do the same thing.
00:36:17So it's, you know, it's bad when they're like, bro, you're manipulative.
00:36:21I'm like, you're a manipulator calling me a manipulator.
00:36:23Right.
00:36:23So I just remember them saying like, you're never wrong.
00:36:27And they would, that, that would be the running joke.
00:36:29Bro is never wrong.
00:36:30Like, don't even talk to him, bro.
00:36:31It's never wrong.
00:36:32I, what do you mean?
00:36:33Let's get up there and let's fight.
00:36:34You know, I see, you see what I'm saying?
00:36:36Like, and then just like, man, whatever you're a bitch.
00:36:38And then they're just like, whatever.
00:36:40And they just knew like, that's how he is.
00:36:42He's just been in prison way too long.
00:36:44And he just, he just thinks he's right all the time.
00:36:46And he pops off.
00:36:48A quick aside.
00:36:48You've probably heard me talk about Element before.
00:36:50And that's because I've started every single morning the same way for the last five years
00:36:53now, which is a cold glass of water with Element in it.
00:36:56Element is an electrolyte drink mix with everything that you need and nothing that you don't.
00:36:59It's a science-backed electrolyte ratio of sodium, potassium, and magnesium.
00:37:03No sugar, no coloring, no artificial ingredients.
00:37:06It reduces muscle cramps and fatigue, supports brain function, and helps to regulate your appetite
00:37:10throughout the day.
00:37:11I genuinely notice the difference when I take it versus when I don't, which is why I don't
00:37:15shut up about it, and also why it's used by everyone, from Dr. Andrew Huberman to Olympic
00:37:20athletes and FBI sniper teams, the good sniper teams, not the bad ones.
00:37:24Also, they have no questions asked for refund policy.
00:37:27So if you don't like it for any reason, they'll just give you your money back.
00:37:30Plus, they offer free shipping in the US.
00:37:32Right now, you can get a free sample pack of Element's most popular flavors with your
00:37:35first purchase by going to the link in the description below.
00:37:37They're heading to drinklmnt.com slash modernwisdom.
00:37:41That's drinklmnt.com slash modernwisdom.
00:37:46It feels like brotherhood requires an enemy in this way.
00:37:50Like, you guys are bound together, bonded together over the mutual tribalism of it not being the other.
00:37:58Yeah, yeah.
00:37:59100%.
00:37:59Yeah, it really is.
00:38:01Because it's like, there are times, it's interesting that you say that, because I remember there's times where we didn't have an enemy.
00:38:07Like, everyone was our enemy, and then people got locked up, and then we kind of made a lot of gangs go defunct.
00:38:12And then we start beefing with each other.
00:38:14We literally, like, it's called set tripping.
00:38:17We would hate on each other.
00:38:18Sed tripping?
00:38:18Set tripping.
00:38:19Set tripping.
00:38:19Set, S-E-T, set.
00:38:21So, set tripping means, like, you're from a set, you're from a set.
00:38:24So, the way my gang works is an umbrella, right?
00:38:27It's like, think of Bank of America, but there's, like, the Austin branch and the California branch, right?
00:38:33So, we're all Bank of America, basically, but we'd trip on each other.
00:38:37And, yeah, that was also really crazy as well.
00:38:41But, yeah, it's interesting that you say that.
00:38:44Yeah, I think you see it.
00:38:46Was it men destroy others in times of war and themselves in times of peace?
00:38:51Sheesh.
00:38:52And it's kind of the same thing with the brotherhood piece here that, hey, if we've got nobody else to fight, well, I need to fight someone.
00:38:57Yeah.
00:38:58And there's no one on the outside, so I'll stop fighting somebody on the inside.
00:39:00Yeah, that's good.
00:39:01Yeah.
00:39:02Yeah, that's interesting.
00:39:03What was integration like coming back out?
00:39:07Because you've done, basically, apart from 67 days, 12, 13 years.
00:39:1312 and a half, 13 years back to back.
00:39:16Yeah, it was hard.
00:39:18I remember just unlearning a lot of things that I had to learn.
00:39:22I mean, it did teach me structure.
00:39:26I think that was one of the benefits where I would come home and I was already just make your bed.
00:39:31You know, it was good.
00:39:32I was kind of like very productive, as weird as that sounds.
00:39:36But I knew I was broken.
00:39:40This one incident, it was like a couple months after I got out.
00:39:43I finally decided like, all right, I'm going to get out the house a little bit.
00:39:46I'm going to explore.
00:39:47Because when you go to prison, there's things that you don't want to be around.
00:39:50You don't want to be around too many people.
00:39:53You get this social anxiety because you get, you know, you're like, it's almost like you get claustrophobic.
00:40:00It's that same feeling of claustrophobic, but in the open, if that makes sense.
00:40:04Like, it feels better to just be like alone.
00:40:06And so I would feel that, number one.
00:40:09You didn't like to be around too many people when you came out.
00:40:11Yeah, because I would be watching their every move.
00:40:13I would see people cross in front of you.
00:40:15Like, when you're speaking and someone walks, like, that's very disrespectful, right?
00:40:20And you have to say, excuse me, in prison.
00:40:22Like, if I'm walking around someone, excuse me.
00:40:23It's very respectful because there's mutual violence.
00:40:26Well, in the world, it's not like that.
00:40:27Somebody can run into you and you're just like, yo, what the hell?
00:40:30And then they just keep walking, right?
00:40:31So I was like, all right, let me avoid that because I know myself, I'll catch a case and go crazy.
00:40:38And finally, I get out and I'm like, all right, I got to go get some stuff, groceries, whatever.
00:40:42I go to Walmart and I remember I'm blown away because I'm like, yo, you could get, like, tires and then, like, I don't know, food.
00:40:50And it's, like, all in one, right?
00:40:51I'm blown away too.
00:40:51Being British, there's no, we don't have supermarkets.
00:40:54Gotcha, gotcha.
00:40:55So you know.
00:40:56I'm making an analogy between being British and going to prison.
00:41:00But, you know, I get there and I remember seeing the correctional or the security guard, I'm sorry.
00:41:06And I'm like, hey, can you take me to the restroom?
00:41:08And he kind of looks at me and he goes, yeah, the code is, it's, you go all the way in the back to the right, the code is.
00:41:13And I'm like, yeah, but can you take me?
00:41:14And that's when I realized I'm free, but I wasn't free in here.
00:41:18Because in prison.
00:41:18You saw a guy in a uniform.
00:41:20Yeah.
00:41:20And that's what they're supposed to do, especially on four yards, is they take, you don't just go to the restroom, you could do contraband.
00:41:26They take you there.
00:41:27And you got to, like, go back, you know, and have them kind of monitor you.
00:41:32So it's like you'd been conditioned, like Pavlovian conditioning of see man in uniform, need bathroom, ask man in uniform to take me to bathroom.
00:41:41Yeah.
00:41:42And that's when he saw me and he was just like, yeah, the code is this.
00:41:45And I'm like, but you got to take me though.
00:41:47And then I was dead serious, like deadpan.
00:41:49And he was just like, oh, we don't, we don't do that here.
00:41:53I don't offer that service.
00:41:53Yeah.
00:41:54And I was like, oh wait, so I just get the code.
00:41:57And he's like, yeah, you just go and you, and then I walked and I remember having like chills, like, what the heck?
00:42:03This is weird.
00:42:04It's like being a child.
00:42:05Yeah.
00:42:05It's like being, it's like being a child and not knowing, like, I have to put my hand in the air.
00:42:09I have to have permission to do this thing.
00:42:12Yeah.
00:42:13And then my friends who did prison time too would come over.
00:42:15My, my light would still be on past like 9 PM, 10 PM.
00:42:19And they're just like, bro, turn off your lights, bro.
00:42:21And again, in prison, they shut it off for you automatically.
00:42:25So there's little things like this where I didn't realize, I was like, oh, oh, that's true.
00:42:32And so, you know, I think that's when I just really was like, dude, I, I didn't feel institutionalized, but I guess I was.
00:42:39Such an arrested development though.
00:42:41From 12 until fucking 25.
00:42:44Yeah.
00:42:44Yeah.
00:42:45Yeah.
00:42:45It is so formative.
00:42:48Yeah.
00:42:48It's more formative.
00:42:49It is.
00:42:51If you've been from zero until 13, it would have probably been less formative than from 12 to 25.
00:42:57That makes sense.
00:42:57You know?
00:42:58Yeah.
00:42:59True.
00:42:59Yeah.
00:43:00Crazy.
00:43:00Yeah.
00:43:01Okay.
00:43:01So back into the real world, what are you doing?
00:43:03So, uh, I kind of want to back it up a little bit prior to that.
00:43:07I obviously, you know, the, the only religion that was really respected in prison was, was being Muslim.
00:43:14And so I remember seeing a guy, um, he was like my first mentor, I would say, I, you know, my gang being as big as it is.
00:43:21I had a lot of friends who were in prison.
00:43:23So when I hung out with them, we would, I would know them, you know, I would hear about them and stories about them and actually hung out with them.
00:43:29But I never had an actual mentor, mentor who was like someone I looked up to, right?
00:43:34I looked up to them because they were gangster, but I knew that they couldn't really help me.
00:43:38I remember meeting this guy.
00:43:39It was, um, you know, Muslim guy, middle Eastern guy.
00:43:42He ran with the others, which is our car, our group.
00:43:46And, um, he was very well respected, which I thought was weird.
00:43:50Okay, so he's religious, he prays, Ramadan comes around, he has a special diet, bro reads, carries himself very respectfully, works out, you know, all of that.
00:44:01And I remember, um, you know, him just being very respectful to me, he knew about my history, you know, China has 5000 years of history, you're Chinese, right?
00:44:10You're Northern Chinese, you're taller, you know, I'm just like, what the heck, this has given me a history lesson on my own, exactly.
00:44:15And he just knew he was a smooth networking guy, right?
00:44:18And so he's like, yeah, bro, like, you got a brand, I remember him saying, you got a brain.
00:44:23And I'm like, okay.
00:44:24And he's like, you got to use that, bro.
00:44:26You know what I'm saying?
00:44:26And I'm like, yeah, he's like, with all due respect, you know, I'm just letting you know.
00:44:30And he's like, you should sell with me.
00:44:31And I was like, okay, because you can make requests to like live with certain people.
00:44:36And I was I was having an issue with one of my Vietnamese homies, my cellmates at that time.
00:44:40So I was like, yeah, how many people sell?
00:44:42Uh, two.
00:44:42Yeah, so I end up, you know, moving in with him.
00:44:45And yeah, lo and behold, he starts to kind of convert me a little bit, but it was very good.
00:44:49I felt, I think for the first time, a little bit of sense of purpose, because he was like, yo, let's get up, bro, Sally, let's get up, let's work out, man.
00:44:56And I'm like, cool.
00:44:57And he would challenge, he'd push me.
00:45:00And, um, I was like in the best shape of my life at that time.
00:45:03And he's like, you should read this.
00:45:05And he brought me, I remember it was like the art of war, um, with, um, General Sun Tzu.
00:45:10And he's like, these are your people, bro.
00:45:11You should read this.
00:45:12Like, you ever done that, man?
00:45:13Buddhism is amazing too.
00:45:14But like, and he starts talking about Islam and he's like, we're a religion of peace.
00:45:20And, you know, and I learned everything from it.
00:45:22And my whole family's from this bloodline and these people.
00:45:25And I was like, cool.
00:45:26I was like, can I be a Muslim?
00:45:28And he's like, yeah, a hundred percent.
00:45:30I was like, do you think the homies are going to feel some type of way?
00:45:32Meaning the people on the yard.
00:45:33Like, no, no, look at it.
00:45:34They respect us.
00:45:35Like, the only thing is like being Christian, bro.
00:45:38And he said it, you know, he's like, and there's no disrespect to them, but like, it's just, it's very hypocritical.
00:45:44So if you do do this, you have to be a hundred percent in it.
00:45:46And I think that's why, and he explained it.
00:45:48That's why people respect Islam.
00:45:50It's like, when we do it, we're all the way in praying five times a day.
00:45:53We take it serious because everything else is haram or sin, you know?
00:45:57And I'm like, cool, I'll do it.
00:46:00So Islam's seen as a more rigid, more disciplined religion?
00:46:03A hundred percent.
00:46:04Because Christianity seems to be, I had Sam Harris on the show a couple of years ago, and he had this description, which I've never been able to forget.
00:46:11And he says that Islam's a high T religion.
00:46:14It is.
00:46:15It's like a high testosterone religion.
00:46:16Whereas Christianity, in many ways, is turning the other cheek.
00:46:20It's about forgiveness.
00:46:21It's about grace to your neighbor, et cetera, et cetera.
00:46:24So I can imagine in a prison environment, high respect and power is really respected.
00:46:29Islam would fit itself way more.
00:46:32I mean, maybe even lower than the Christians might be the Buddhists because they're all about the peace.
00:46:37Yeah, yeah, yeah, true.
00:46:38Yeah, that's crazy.
00:46:39Okay, so you start thinking a bit more about theology.
00:46:42Yeah, so I start, you know, studying with him and he was so open-minded that he's like, you know, a true Muslim reads the Bible too.
00:46:50And I was like, interesting.
00:46:51So he started, again, teaching me everything.
00:46:53These are the books before it.
00:46:54We got to pull from Moses and all this.
00:46:58This guy sounds awesome.
00:46:59Yeah, he was really cool, honestly.
00:47:01And he, you know, ends up converting me.
00:47:04And we just kind of, like, for a good two to three years, I'm like 100% hardcore Sunni Muslim.
00:47:12And, you know, I'm learning all these things.
00:47:14The one thing that I started to recognize, though, is that there was some things that were going against, like, their teachings was kind of going against how we programmed on the yard.
00:47:23So I think my first religion was gangbanging, right, obviously.
00:47:26And it was just a mechanical for me.
00:47:28So I'm sitting there and I'm like, well, there's certain things that are going against, like, you know, I read verses and I try to ask him.
00:47:36Where I saw it was bad was when I asked him, he got defensive towards me.
00:47:40And that was the first time I saw that when I questioned, it was like, hey, respectfully, you don't know the Arabic and you don't know.
00:47:48So don't ask me that.
00:47:49And he even said it, like, it's very disrespectful that you're doing that because I'm like an imam to you, meaning a leader.
00:47:54You're not supposed to.
00:47:55And I'm like, but I thought we're supposed to ask questions and, like, what the heck?
00:47:59And so that kind of made me feel the betrayal that I felt, right, from a young age.
00:48:04Like, dang, I finally found something like my hood.
00:48:07No one's visiting me at this time, so I felt betrayed by them.
00:48:09And then this guy did this where I'm like, yo, I'm leaning on you.
00:48:12And I feel that betrayal again.
00:48:15And the one thing that really solidified me to leave was that, again, stand-up guy, I still respected him as a human being.
00:48:22You know, he was well-respected.
00:48:24He was like, yeah, I'm getting out of here.
00:48:26So he was a lifer, but he got out.
00:48:27You know, he got a chance to parole.
00:48:29And everyone's like, bro, we know you're going to make it out there.
00:48:32You're studied.
00:48:32You're smart, whatever.
00:48:34Six months later, he comes back.
00:48:36And that's when I realized, holy crap, like, I'm done.
00:48:39I'm not even as disciplined as bro.
00:48:42I'm not as articulate and smart as him.
00:48:45I don't think I'll make it out there.
00:48:46And I remember at that time, I was thinking about, should I catch my last strike in here and just live in here?
00:48:51Because I don't know if I'm going to make it out there.
00:48:53If this guy can't make it out there and he wakes up every morning, he's disciplined, he's studied, he doesn't even have any, like, gang and mentality, any of that, then what the heck?
00:49:03I'm cooked, basically.
00:49:04And so, you know, I was thinking about that.
00:49:06But thank God, by the grace of God, I was able to make it out.
00:49:10And so I get out and I'm trying to fly straight because I'm like, I don't want to go back to this.
00:49:15I've spent all of my adolescence, basically, and youth in prison.
00:49:20What do I do now, right?
00:49:21And I try to fly straight, transparently.
00:49:23I'm like, let me go and just apply to everything, Home Depot, Walmart.
00:49:28But the way that it was back then, it just wasn't as open as it is now.
00:49:32So when you check that box, it says, have you ever committed a crime?
00:49:35And then you have to give the information and be real.
00:49:37The first couple, I lied because I was just like, all right, I'm going to check it.
00:49:41I'm going to say, like, petty theft or something, right?
00:49:43But they obviously do a background check and they found out that I had violent crimes.
00:49:48And I didn't even get callbacks or anything.
00:49:50And so during that time, I think I felt very, again, very angry and frustrated.
00:49:56And then I was like, F it, you know, I'm going to go back to this life that I know.
00:50:00Started plugging in with the homies, started running, started doing stuff.
00:50:03And then just making 40, 50K a month, allegedly, right?
00:50:08And, you know, I'm making this money.
00:50:12I got a penthouse now, you know, buying certain things.
00:50:15And I'm just living that gangster lifestyle, women and drugs and everything.
00:50:21And yeah, I end up just feeling still this emptiness and this void that I had felt in prison,
00:50:28but I think I had stuffed it away or maybe because of the environment was so chaotic
00:50:32that I didn't really pay attention to.
00:50:34But I had, again, this emptiness and I'm like, okay, maybe I got to make more money.
00:50:39Maybe I got to do more drugs.
00:50:40Maybe I got it.
00:50:41And I just amped it up.
00:50:42I went crazy with it to the point where I almost overdosed.
00:50:45It was crazy.
00:50:46Still, emptiness.
00:50:47And the way I describe it was like a hole in my heart that no matter what I did, it didn't
00:50:52matter the productivity that I did.
00:50:54I could make way more money this month.
00:50:56It did not matter.
00:50:57It was like at nighttime, it would be my thoughts would come and haunt me.
00:51:02It would be one thought leads into 10 thoughts, leads into 50 thoughts.
00:51:06I'm feeling like nothing's happening externally.
00:51:08Everything is internal.
00:51:09I feel this emptiness and this void in my heart.
00:51:11It feels like somebody's stepping on my heart.
00:51:14I can't even like inhale and exhale.
00:51:16And then I just would cry.
00:51:17I would straight up like, don't know why I'd be like, oh, I'm so empty.
00:51:21What's wrong with me?
00:51:21And then I would try to fight it.
00:51:23No, I'm a man.
00:51:23I don't do this.
00:51:24Like, I'm good.
00:51:25I'm going to get up tomorrow and I'm going to try again.
00:51:27And then it was this constant, best way to explain it was like a rollercoaster lifestyle.
00:51:32Happy when I was happy for a little bit.
00:51:34And then sad, happy, sad, happy, sad, happy, sad.
00:51:36And then I felt very, very empty inside.
00:51:38And I think at that time was when I decided to try to take my life because I'm like, okay, I come up from the projects.
00:51:46I'm living off of food stamps when I was a kid.
00:51:49I finally get out.
00:51:50I had this dream that if I make 5 to 10K a month, I'm set.
00:51:54I'm making 10X, 5X, 10X that.
00:51:57And I'm still not happy.
00:51:59Everyone around me is like wanting my lifestyle.
00:52:01Because when you go to prison, it is an ecosystem where it's networking.
00:52:05So when I get out, I know other people have got out.
00:52:08And because we run by the same program, we don't snitch.
00:52:10We're solid.
00:52:11We start to do business together.
00:52:13And so you start to open up these different streams of income, right?
00:52:16Just solely based off of your name in prison that you're good.
00:52:20And so, you know, I'm making all of this money and I'm just like, why am I not happy?
00:52:26And then during that time, you know, a friend of mine, he's like, rest his soul.
00:52:31But he's like, yeah, bro, like we got to get about this game.
00:52:35I think we got to try to like fly straight.
00:52:37He's talking about investing.
00:52:38And so I was like, what the heck is all this stuff?
00:52:40You know, he's like, we can't do this.
00:52:42You know, there's an expiration.
00:52:43And I'm like, all right.
00:52:44He was always level-headed, a much smarter person than me.
00:52:47So there's gang members and gang bangers, right?
00:52:50He was a gang member, meaning like he didn't really do work.
00:52:54He was like the brains and like membership.
00:52:57Gang bangers, someone like me, just crashing out.
00:52:59I'll do it.
00:53:00Yeah, like just crash dummy, right?
00:53:02And so we had like a perfect combination because he was like the brains and I was like the brawn.
00:53:07So we, you know, planned to rob this well-known drug dealer in our area.
00:53:13And he was like a multi-millionaire, you know, Porsches and, you know, Ferrari and all this stuff.
00:53:19And so, you know, I go there at night.
00:53:24We're planning on taking like 25 packs and some keys of cocaine and we were just going to rob him of it, right?
00:53:33But we acted like we were buyers, like, oh yeah, we're interested, but we're going to lick him.
00:53:39The plan was for me to go to the right of the car and the homie was supposed to go to the left of the car.
00:53:43So I stepped to the right.
00:53:45He ends up stepping to the right with me.
00:53:47And I'm like, okay.
00:53:48So I naturally obviously just go to the left and I'm going to the driver's side and I'm like, yo, what's up, homie?
00:53:54Like, and then when I pull the gun, I hear three shots ring out this way.
00:53:59And I actually assumed at first that it was my homie who just lit him up.
00:54:04And I was like, what the heck?
00:54:06And then the guy's like driving off and then I feel the bullets whizzing and then I see my friend had fallen.
00:54:11So we didn't know that the guy had his homie in the back, like just sitting there too, just in case he was going to get robbed.
00:54:18We didn't know that.
00:54:19We thought it was just him because he was known for just off the strength.
00:54:23People would respect him.
00:54:24They wouldn't rob him.
00:54:25So he'd go by himself.
00:54:26But we were like, nah, we're going to get you, you know, but, um, he was ready.
00:54:30He was ready.
00:54:30And, and it was that time that my friend died in my arms.
00:54:34And I think during that time I had survivor's guilt because I'm like, I was supposed to die, right?
00:54:39Um, if he didn't step in front of me, I think I would have got lit up for sure.
00:54:44And I wouldn't be here.
00:54:45And so that happens.
00:54:48And then, uh, you know, a few days after I get a kite from the pen, uh, penitentiary, which is this cryptic secret letter and note, uh, from a friend of mine who also grew up in the projects with me.
00:54:58Um, he did a lot of stuff with me.
00:55:00It was in the gang as well.
00:55:02And he ends up, um, you know, just writing this eerie, Hey brother, I miss you.
00:55:07I'll see you when I see you.
00:55:08Um, you know, I remember the good times when you miss me, look to the mountains, you know, just weird things like this.
00:55:13And I'm like, and I find out that he hung himself in prison.
00:55:16And then there's a youngster who I was very in love with.
00:55:19He was like a carbon copy of me when I was 12.
00:55:22He was 15, 16.
00:55:25He ends up, um, you know, getting shot from a car to car shooting dies on the scene.
00:55:30So within a matter of a week and a half, two weeks, this is how this has happened.
00:55:35And so in my head, obviously I'm like, okay, not only is this a tremendous, like, I can't handle this anymore, but I also feel this, this, this, this, it was like death in the air.
00:55:49And as crazy as that is thinking you're in prison and all that, I never actually felt that.
00:55:54I knew like there was death, but I don't feel like it would ever come to me at this moment.
00:56:00The supplement industry is full of products making claims that they can't back, which is why I'm such a massive fan of Momentus.
00:56:11Their co-founder, Jeff Byers, played in the NFL and saw firsthand just how wildly the quality of supplements can vary.
00:56:17So he built Momentus around a higher standard.
00:56:19Every product from Momentus uses evidence-backed ingredients, transparent doses, and independent third-party testing.
00:56:26Everything is NSF certified for sports, so what's on the label is actually what's in the tub.
00:56:31It's why Momentus is trusted inside all 32 NFL locker rooms.
00:56:36It's why I've trusted them with my own supplements for years.
00:56:39Best of all, Momentus offers a 30-day money-back guarantee, so you can buy it and try it for 29 days.
00:56:44If you don't love it, they will give you your money back, plus they ship internationally.
00:56:47Right now, you can get up to 35% off your first subscription and that 30-day money-back guarantee by going to the link in the description below.
00:56:53Or heading to livemomentus.com slash modernwisdom and using the code modernwisdom at checkout.
00:56:58That's L-I-V-E-M-O-M-E-N-T-O-U-S dot com slash modernwisdom and modernwisdom at checkout.
00:57:04Yeah, it was just bad.
00:57:05It was bad.
00:57:06And, but again, did not know what to do, right?
00:57:09I'm like, okay, well, I guess I'm going to die then.
00:57:11Like, whatever.
00:57:12I'm going to just live however I want because there's no hope in me.
00:57:16And then my mom's car breaks down and it's in, it's in San Bernardino and that's about an hour away from where we live and the church that she's, she goes to.
00:57:26And at this time, you know, my mom's from Korea.
00:57:28Ethnically though, she's Chinese.
00:57:30So she's born in Korea, speaks Korean, speaks Mandarin and English.
00:57:33She's trilingual.
00:57:35She, she then is, gets a job essentially at the church as like an interpreter, right?
00:57:40Um, for the pastors.
00:57:42And she's, she calls me and she's like, Johnny, my, my, my car's broken down.
00:57:46Can you come and pick me up?
00:57:48You know?
00:57:48Um, okay, cool.
00:57:49Where are you at?
00:57:50San Bernardino, oh my gosh, San Bernardino's like an hour away.
00:57:52Like, what are you doing out there?
00:57:54And she's like, well, car overheated.
00:57:55Um, it's hot out here.
00:57:56Can you please just come and take me?
00:57:58My brother's in prison.
00:57:59He's doing his 14 year bid at this time.
00:58:02My dad is obviously deadbeat dad.
00:58:04He's just not in the picture.
00:58:05He's drunk all the time still.
00:58:07So I'm like, all right, let me just go help mom.
00:58:09You know, let me do this solid for her.
00:58:11End up going, picking her up.
00:58:13And remember on the car ride to the church, I'm like, mom, do not invite me to this church.
00:58:18Like, I know how you Christians get down.
00:58:20You guys love to convert people and do all this crap.
00:58:22So I remember telling her, I'm not going to go in.
00:58:25Are you still considering yourself Muslim at this time?
00:58:27No, no.
00:58:27I was already just kind of like traditionally Buddhist, but like not practicing and kind of just atheist.
00:58:33Right.
00:58:33I'm like, there's something, but I don't, it's like, I don't care.
00:58:36You know, it's like, whatever.
00:58:37So I end up, um, you know, taking her there.
00:58:41And then I remember mom opened the door and then the smell of black bean noodles, uh, enters the car.
00:58:46And it's my favorite dish, bro.
00:58:48It's like a Korean dish, delicacy.
00:58:50It's like a dry cooked noodle.
00:58:52It's amazing.
00:58:53And I smell it and I'm like, whoa, this is fire.
00:58:55And I had forgotten that because my dad was a chef, but the one thing he would do, which was really weird.
00:59:01And I, now I know why in hindsight is 2020 is he would beat me and his way of saying sorry was he would cook black bean noodles for me.
00:59:10And so I almost had this kind of connection to him through that.
00:59:15It's like, okay, he would beat me up, but then it would be like the best tasting noodles.
00:59:19And he was a, he's a really good chef, you know?
00:59:21Um, so I remember that kind of triggered a memory, but it felt like comforting in some kind of way.
00:59:26And so I see the pastor and he just sees me and he's kind of shocked too.
00:59:31Like, oh shoot.
00:59:32Like, are you Johnny?
00:59:34Who are you?
00:59:34He goes, are you James?
00:59:35Are you Johnny?
00:59:36Which is my, my older brother and me.
00:59:38And I'm like, oh, I'm Johnny.
00:59:39He goes, well, nice to meet you.
00:59:40I'm pastor Kim.
00:59:41You know, um, your mom, you know, I'm so sorry.
00:59:43Like your mom kind of drove really far.
00:59:46Um, thank you for picking her up.
00:59:47You know, we'll help her with her car.
00:59:49If she needs it's okay.
00:59:50Um, but yeah, you know, we made some black bean noodles, Johnny, and, um, I can put it
00:59:55in a to-go container and then just send it, send you off your way.
00:59:58And for some reason, cause I was really big about respect in the Asian culture.
01:00:03Um, you know, even in prison, like if you eat, you don't try to eat by yourself.
01:00:07Like you, you break spread, as we say, like you, you bring everybody together and you just
01:00:12chill and you eat.
01:00:13So in that culture and then kind of in the gang culture, it's ingrained.
01:00:17I was just kind of like, like, I feel a little disrespectful if I just took the food and just
01:00:23left.
01:00:24So I was just like, yeah, I'll, I'll come in and eat with you guys.
01:00:27And then my mom, I remember looking at me like, what the hell you just said, you weren't going
01:00:31to like come in.
01:00:32The pastor was just kind of like, oh, oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:00:35You can come in like, sure.
01:00:36No problem.
01:00:37Um, we're all eating, but like, yeah.
01:00:39And then I remember him taking me to the back room and yeah, he brought me the, the, the black
01:00:44bean noodles in a bowl.
01:00:46Brought me these, um, like daikon.
01:00:48It was like yellow daikon.
01:00:50And when I was eating it, it was so good.
01:00:52I was like, oh my gosh, this is amazing.
01:00:54And it was again, handmade, homemade, just authentic.
01:00:58Um, and then I sit down with him and then he, he talks about, you know, uh, he starts to
01:01:03ask me questions.
01:01:04He asked me these, these questions that kind of like pissed me off at first.
01:01:08Cause he goes, are you a sinner?
01:01:11And do you know what sin is?
01:01:13Right.
01:01:13And I'm like, here we go.
01:01:16So I just tell the pastor, like, Hey pastor, respectfully, I was a Muslim, not practicing
01:01:20anymore.
01:01:21I do believe in lean more towards like peace and like Buddhism.
01:01:25Um, so I'm not really here for that, but you know, respectfully, like I know what sin
01:01:32is.
01:01:32And of course I'm a sinner.
01:01:34And he's just like, well, what is it?
01:01:36Right.
01:01:37And I'm like, well, it's you doing evil things that are not, you know, according to God.
01:01:42And, and yes, have I done evil things?
01:01:46Of course I was in a gang.
01:01:47And then he goes, not so like, that's not true.
01:01:50And I was like, what?
01:01:52And I remember Catholics coming into the prisons.
01:01:55They had, uh, Mormons coming into prisons, other Protestants, everybody would explain sin
01:02:02as breaking the commandments, messing up, going against God, and you have to repent, right?
01:02:07Sin and repentance.
01:02:08I knew that even though I wasn't a believer and he, it's from him.
01:02:11He was like, no, it's an identity issue.
01:02:13So right there, he taught me basically, um, you know, the, the origin of original sin and
01:02:20how it's an identity.
01:02:21And he used a lot of analogies.
01:02:23He was like, you're born Chinese.
01:02:26And I'm like, yes.
01:02:27Did you choose to be Chinese?
01:02:29And I'm like, no, what the heck is this guy talking to him?
01:02:32He's about to get racist right now, you know?
01:02:33And he's just like, do you, if you eat a lot of orange chicken, would that make you more
01:02:40Chinese?
01:02:40And I'm like, no.
01:02:42And he goes, if you eat less orange chicken and fried rice and chow mein, would that make
01:02:47you less Chinese?
01:02:48And I'm just like, bro, get to the point, you know?
01:02:50And he's just like, so why are you Chinese?
01:02:54And I'm like, why am I?
01:02:55I'm born that way.
01:02:56And he goes, exactly.
01:02:57He goes, sin is the same way.
01:02:58Um, you're born into this sin.
01:03:01Um, you're trying to do good in your life.
01:03:03You can't.
01:03:04And it's this constant uphill battle.
01:03:07And he goes, you know, what that bleeds into is emptiness.
01:03:10The outcome of trying to do good, an imperfect person trying to produce perfection.
01:03:17You then keep falling short.
01:03:19And then when you keep falling short, you feel empty.
01:03:23And that's the first time somebody articulated what I was feeling inside of my heart to me.
01:03:29And I'm like, kind of blown away.
01:03:31Cause I'm like, first off, this guy's ballsy, right?
01:03:34He's telling me as a gang member that I'm empty.
01:03:38Basically, I'm not a man.
01:03:40I can't, I don't have emotional regulation and, you know, maturity and EQ.
01:03:44And he goes, but the thing he follows up with is that's normal.
01:03:50What you feel, Johnny, is normal.
01:03:52Now, all throughout my life, from my dad to even my mom calling me a monster, my dad saying,
01:03:57I never wanted you beating me, me being known as a YA number and a CDC, California Department Corrections number.
01:04:05That's the first time he kind of like humanized me, right?
01:04:08He's like, you're normal and you're going to feel empty until you figure out what I'm about to tell you.
01:04:14And so he then explains it, right?
01:04:16That's why you need someone to save you out of it.
01:04:18You know, there's this person named Jesus, right?
01:04:21And I'm like, I know, I've heard of this guy, right?
01:04:23And he goes, we call him our Lord and Savior for a reason.
01:04:28He's like, it's too, he has to save you.
01:04:30And he used a lifeguard analogy, right?
01:04:31He's like, if you're drowning and, you know, you're in the middle of the ocean and there's no one around you, what can you only do?
01:04:38Die, right?
01:04:39But if a lifeguard comes and pulls you out from a boat and puts you on land, you didn't save yourself, the lifeguard saved you.
01:04:46In the same way, you're drowning in your depression, you're drowning in your past trauma, you're drowning in your loneliness, emptiness, anxiety, everything.
01:04:56You can't get yourself out of it.
01:04:58You're trying and you do well for a little and you fail.
01:05:01And Jesus is the one who has to get you out of it.
01:05:04And I guess for the first time in my life, it just clicked.
01:05:07It made sense.
01:05:08No one has ever explained that to me.
01:05:09I think all other religions were always like, hey, you got to do it.
01:05:13There's a level of you meeting God, right?
01:05:16And again, it was all mechanical for me.
01:05:19I realized that, oh my gosh, it's true.
01:05:22Productivity, output was what I was focused on.
01:05:27And the issue with that is I'm at the center of that.
01:05:30So if I'm putting productivity, if I'm putting, you know, everything depends on my last result, let's say.
01:05:36Then, yeah, I'm going to live like a roller coaster.
01:05:39Of course, I'm going to fail.
01:05:40And so it just made sense to me.
01:05:42You know, he put it in a way that was so palatable and digestible and simple yet profound.
01:05:47And it felt for the first time in my life like true hope in this man.
01:05:53And again, I didn't know him from like a bum on the street.
01:05:57He's this Korean dude, short dude, clean cut.
01:06:00Mind you, he's speaking through a translator as well because his English isn't even good.
01:06:04So this random dude on the side who's just like speaking English.
01:06:07And I'm like, who the hell are you?
01:06:08You're like all up in our business.
01:06:10But he didn't know how to speak English, right?
01:06:12And so I'm like, okay, all this is happening.
01:06:16My mom's on the side.
01:06:17She's like kind of like getting emotional.
01:06:20And he's just like, does this make sense, Johnny?
01:06:22Like I'm like, yeah, 100%.
01:06:23So but then what do I do now?
01:06:25Practically speaking, what am I just thank you, Jesus?
01:06:27And that's it?
01:06:28Like everything gets better.
01:06:29I don't understand.
01:06:30And so he was explaining, you know, all of these just core concepts to me that I've never heard.
01:06:37And basically, the best way I could put it is he put like a mirror in front of me for the first time.
01:06:43Humanized me, said I was normal.
01:06:45And then said, this is what's wrong with you.
01:06:47This is how I'm going to help you with these things.
01:06:49So he, in that moment, I didn't realize kind of was mentoring me.
01:06:53Again, something I was longing for.
01:06:55A father figure.
01:06:55Didn't have any of that.
01:06:57And yeah, he started to just guide me through these things.
01:07:00And I think we ended up staying there for like almost two hours, just talking like this.
01:07:04And at the end of it, I felt this piece of like, oh my gosh, I'm not alone.
01:07:11There is light at the end of the tunnel.
01:07:14I now just have to figure out and listen to this dude.
01:07:17He just understands me, which is wild, right?
01:07:21And he challenges me that day, actually, which I think was very, again, very bold of this dude.
01:07:27But I respected it because I'm like, this guy's like really,
01:07:30just not a normal person.
01:07:32He goes, how's your relationship with your father?
01:07:36And I'm like, horrible.
01:07:38And I know what's coming, right?
01:07:40You want me to forgive him?
01:07:41Like basically is what I said.
01:07:42And he's like, no, not necessarily.
01:07:44He's like, I just, I want to show you some scriptures.
01:07:46And he showed me Romans 7, 15.
01:07:48Romans 7, 20 basically says that there are people that do things that they don't want to do.
01:07:53Like they want to be happy.
01:07:54They want to be loving, but then they end up addicted and they do the things that they don't
01:07:59want to do.
01:08:00He goes, you, for example, did you ever think you wanted to wake up and go, you know what?
01:08:04I'm going to be depressed today.
01:08:05And I'm like, no.
01:08:06He said, you probably hate depression.
01:08:08I'm like, yeah.
01:08:08And he goes, and yet you end up depressed.
01:08:11Why do you think that is?
01:08:13And I'm like, I don't know.
01:08:14And then he gives me the verse 7, 20.
01:08:17If I do the things that I'm doing, it's no more I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
01:08:20And he explains it.
01:08:21It's because you waking up going, I'm not going to be depressed today.
01:08:24I'm not going to be this today.
01:08:25It's the same as saying, I'm not going to be Asian today or Chinese today.
01:08:28And he's like, do you think that's possible or impossible?
01:08:31I was like, impossible.
01:08:32He's like, and it's also because you've never learned.
01:08:34You've never learned another system other than this system here.
01:08:38And so he's like, if you're willing to, I want to help you with that.
01:08:44But there's one thing that I need from you.
01:08:46And then he talks about my dad.
01:08:48He goes, you should apologize to your father.
01:08:53And I'm like, literally, I mean, excuse my language, but I was like, fuck that.
01:08:57I straight up told him, fuck that.
01:08:59And he was just like, that's fair.
01:09:01That's valid.
01:09:03Hear me out.
01:09:03You know, hear me out.
01:09:04He goes, I understand.
01:09:05And I'm like, where does the victim?
01:09:07And I couldn't even articulate my words.
01:09:08So I was pissed.
01:09:09Where does the guy that gets beaten up has to say sorry?
01:09:12You know, and he goes, yeah, where the victim apologized.
01:09:14It's true.
01:09:15He goes, but as right as you are, Johnny, you're also miserable.
01:09:20If you're being honest, you know, I've been honest with you.
01:09:22So please be honest with me.
01:09:24Do you ever look at other families and look at other people and go, man, I wish my dad was
01:09:28like that.
01:09:29And I said, of course.
01:09:30I said, but that ship has sailed.
01:09:31You know, it was like defensive.
01:09:32And, you know, I don't care anymore if he dies.
01:09:35I don't, I'm not going to visit him.
01:09:36And he goes, you know, as right as you are, you're miserable because of that.
01:09:40You're the judge of everything.
01:09:42And so he goes, the reason why I'm telling you to say sorry is because I have faith that,
01:09:48and he used an analogy, when two countries go to war, they're both fighting for what they
01:09:52believe in is true and what they believe is right.
01:09:55And during that time, countries are broken.
01:09:59People die.
01:09:59There is no peace, only chaos.
01:10:02He goes, your father, however, if this word and you believe pertains to you also pertains
01:10:09to every human being, would you agree?
01:10:11And I was like, reluctantly, like, yeah, that's true.
01:10:13I could see that.
01:10:14And he goes, your dad also probably had some stuff in him.
01:10:18And I'm not saying what he did was okay, but he kind of just humanized my dad.
01:10:22And he goes, if you say sorry, it's like that country that just concedes.
01:10:28All right, fine.
01:10:29Take the resources, do whatever you got to do.
01:10:31Then they rebuild it and at least peace flows in.
01:10:34And that's important, right?
01:10:35And so he goes, you know, if you do this, I think your dad would mend the relationship with
01:10:41you.
01:10:41So two hearts, I remember, came up, two thoughts was, why do I even care to mend the relationship
01:10:47with somebody like this?
01:10:49But the other side of it was also like, dang, this guy knows what he's talking about.
01:10:54He's dissecting me in a way.
01:10:56He's obviously super smart and articulate.
01:10:59He's thinking on a different level.
01:11:01If I don't listen to bro, I think I'm going to struggle.
01:11:04Like he has like the antidote.
01:11:07And I just felt like I had to hear him out and I had to try.
01:11:12Sounds like a lot of respect.
01:11:13Yeah.
01:11:14And I super respected him because of that.
01:11:16And again, I was still shocked because I just met this guy.
01:11:19But I just, again, no one has ever articulated anything like that.
01:11:23He decoded you and threw a translator in the space of two hours.
01:11:26Literally, literally.
01:11:27And I'm like, that's crazy.
01:11:29And so, you know, he goes, I don't know you.
01:11:32He goes, but the Bible is about you and it's about Jesus.
01:11:35And I know the Bible.
01:11:37So that's why I kind of know what you're going through.
01:11:39Because I asked him, how do you even know these things?
01:11:41So anyways, fast forward, I end up meeting with my dad.
01:11:44And this is the thing I went viral for essentially.
01:11:47But I, you know, meet my dad.
01:11:49It's tense.
01:11:51Remember calling him?
01:11:52And the first thing he says is, who is this?
01:11:55And I'm like, bro, I'm your son and you don't even know my voice.
01:11:57Because we haven't seen each other for like, you know, 12, 13, 14 years.
01:12:02And I'm like, yeah, it's Johnny.
01:12:04And he goes, I don't have any money.
01:12:06And I was like, I don't need your money.
01:12:08Right?
01:12:08And then I remember just like getting so mad at him.
01:12:11But I like remembered what the pastor was saying.
01:12:13Like, maybe it's not him.
01:12:15Just after that two hour meeting.
01:12:16This was, yeah, about a day after.
01:12:18I had to sit on it for a little bit, but it was like 24 hours after.
01:12:22And yeah.
01:12:23And then I remember just calling him and I'm like, hey, dad, I want to meet you somewhere.
01:12:28Let's meet up here, Noodle City on 6th Street in Alhambra, pho restaurant.
01:12:34And he's like, yeah, yeah, that's fine.
01:12:36We'll meet.
01:12:37Like, what do you need?
01:12:38We'll meet.
01:12:39So I end up getting there and it's weird.
01:12:41I see my dad.
01:12:41He's aged now.
01:12:43He's like a little chunkier, you know?
01:12:45And he's just like, I see him.
01:12:47I sit down in front of him.
01:12:49And like, at first I feel frustration and tension.
01:12:53I remember it was just like this feeling of like, why am I here?
01:12:57I feel stupid.
01:12:58And if I say something and he doesn't respond the way that I want him to, I'll probably kill him for real.
01:13:03And so I'm like, all right.
01:13:06Like, and I'm sitting there and he's like, what did you want to talk to me about?
01:13:09And I was like, dad, I'm sorry.
01:13:12Like, I remember just rushing it.
01:13:13I'm sorry.
01:13:14You know, I'm sorry that I was a bad son.
01:13:16I'm sorry that I joined a gang and I ruined your American dream.
01:13:19I'm sorry that I couldn't help you.
01:13:20And I remember not, not even making eye contact with him, just like looking down.
01:13:24And I look up thinking my dad's going to be like, yeah, you should be sorry.
01:13:29And he ends up looking at me and I see his eyes.
01:13:31Like he starts to like have tears.
01:13:33He starts crying.
01:13:35And he's like, you know, Johnny, I'm sorry.
01:13:37Like I waited a very long time for this, you know, but I didn't know how to approach it.
01:13:42Like the reason why I didn't go to visit you in prison is because I felt like I created you in a way, you know?
01:13:48And he's, and I didn't know that.
01:13:49I didn't know that.
01:13:50I always saw my dad as like narcissistic, never could be wrong.
01:13:54He's never said, I love you.
01:13:55And he's never said, I'm sorry.
01:13:56So I remember just crying too.
01:13:59It shocked me.
01:14:00And, um, yeah, it felt like that, that those years of pain just pretty much went away.
01:14:06And then I hugged him, which was crazy.
01:14:08So that's the first time he said, I love you.
01:14:10And I'm sorry in the same sentence.
01:14:12And we just reconciled, you know?
01:14:14And then I was like, dang, pastor's got the wisdom.
01:14:18Like, like I was literally like, how does bro know this?
01:14:22Like, and, and I think that for me was just enough to be like, okay, there must be a God.
01:14:28There must be like, how does, how is it that I went completely against what I thought and felt and then experienced this?
01:14:36You know, um, and then he started to train me.
01:14:38That's what surrendering is.
01:14:40You know, surrendering is not, oh, let me see if it makes sense.
01:14:43And then I'll let go.
01:14:44Um, faith is also not, oh, it needs to make sense.
01:14:47And then I'll let go.
01:14:48Right.
01:14:48And so he was explaining that to me.
01:14:51Um, and then over the years, he's nurtured me.
01:14:54My dad stopped drinking.
01:14:55My dad met that pastor to receive salvation as well.
01:14:59Um, he goes to church.
01:15:00Now, my dad was hardcore, like not even, he was agnostic.
01:15:04Like, he was just like, I don't even, you know, he went from that to going, if, if this
01:15:09God changed my son, Johnny to be this way, like there must be something, you know?
01:15:14And, um, he's yeah, goes to church.
01:15:16It's funny.
01:15:17He used to always talk trash about Christians too.
01:15:19Like all they want is your money, you know?
01:15:21And it's like crazy stuff, but looking back at it, I'm just very proud of him.
01:15:25Yeah.
01:15:27Jared, you ever considered you might have a drinking problem?
01:15:30I don't consider a lot, Chris.
01:15:31What, you drank an entire case of Athletic Brewing Co. last night?
01:15:34But they're non-alcoholic.
01:15:36And that's not a problem?
01:15:37Sorry, man.
01:15:38I kept chugging, waiting for the regret to creep in.
01:15:40Never happened.
01:15:42Didn't you end up going home with that chick with the lazy eye?
01:15:44I didn't seem lazy to me.
01:15:47See, most people, like Jared, don't actually want to change what they drink.
01:15:51They just don't want the next day to be a complete write-off.
01:15:53Which is why I'm such a huge fan of Athletic Brewing Co.
01:15:55They make the best NA brews on the planet, so you can still have something cold and tasty,
01:16:00just without the usual trade-off.
01:16:02You can find Athletic Brewing Co.'s best-selling line-up at grocery or liquor stores near you,
01:16:05or, best option, get a full variety pack of four flavours shipped direct to your door.
01:16:09Get 15% off your first online order by going to the link in the description below
01:16:13or heading to athleticbrewing.com slash modernwisdom
01:16:15and using the code modernwisdom at checkout.
01:16:17That's athleticbrewing.com slash modernwisdom
01:16:19and modernwisdom at checkout.
01:16:21Near beer, terms and conditions apply.
01:16:23Brewing Company, fit for all times.
01:16:25Which part of you most resisted becoming peaceful, do you think?
01:16:30Ooh, that's a good question.
01:16:33I think the part of me that didn't fully die,
01:16:37and what I mean by that is on both sides of the cross, right,
01:16:41before Christianity and after Christianity,
01:16:43there was this thing that I would struggle with,
01:16:45with, like, there's still me kind of having my hands on the wheel.
01:16:51Like, I still am a master of my destiny in some way.
01:16:54Like, yeah, you can have faith,
01:16:55but you got to get the, put the steps in and put the reps in.
01:16:58And it was like, again, I was very productive as a human being, right,
01:17:01and disciplined.
01:17:02So I think that part was like, if you let that go,
01:17:08yes, it seems like it's peaceful,
01:17:09but then it was scary because I think what I struggled with was control, right?
01:17:15Like, so in order to have peace, I thought you have to have more control, right?
01:17:23So I used to think I had anxiety and depression because those were my issues.
01:17:27What I learned and what I realized was I was having control issues.
01:17:31And what I mean is when things would go Johnny's way and I had a control on it,
01:17:37then I could feel like, oh, okay, I'm safe, right?
01:17:43Even in prison, I had to control my program, do my own thing.
01:17:46But as soon as I didn't have control,
01:17:49then that would equate to danger and fear and then not peace.
01:17:53But the Christian mindset is you're not in control.
01:17:59The control comes from God and you do,
01:18:03you plan boldly surrender daily, as we say.
01:18:06So that was the thing that I think was like the hardest thing was,
01:18:10okay, I got to let go of my thoughts and my interpretations and my feelings
01:18:14and go against what the Bible is saying.
01:18:17I'm sorry, take up what the Bible is saying,
01:18:19which is you can't do anything.
01:18:21He has to do everything.
01:18:23That part scared me.
01:18:25But that was the thing they were saying was going to give me peace.
01:18:28So that was the internal battle.
01:18:31I got the word passivity, being passive,
01:18:34sort of coming to mind of this fear of passivity.
01:18:36I think this is, I've had this conversation with a bunch of friends.
01:18:39One of the most valuable traits that I have in my entire life is agency,
01:18:45my ability to happen to life, not for life to happen to me.
01:18:49And I can see surrender,
01:18:52relinquishing of control,
01:18:54faith, giving yourself over to a higher power.
01:18:57If you're the sort of person that's self-made, self-powered, sovereign,
01:19:02blending these two worlds together is really hard.
01:19:06100%.
01:19:07Who else is going to make it happen?
01:19:08Yep.
01:19:09You tell me that I'm supposed to just like hope?
01:19:11Because the line between handing off control to faith and giving in, giving up effort.
01:19:26Yeah.
01:19:27Very thin.
01:19:28Yeah.
01:19:28Very, very, very thin.
01:19:30Yeah.
01:19:30And I can't remember who it is.
01:19:33There's a line that I love, which is, God will steer the boat, but you still have to row.
01:19:38Yeah.
01:19:38Yeah.
01:19:38And this idea of, okay, the direction might be something that's guided if you're a person
01:19:43of faith, but the effort still has to be there.
01:19:45Sure.
01:19:45Right.
01:19:45Or else you end up just lying in your bed wishing, believing, not achieving.
01:19:49100%.
01:19:49100%.
01:19:51I think that's, you know, I mentor a lot of people and they ask me the same thing, right?
01:19:55How do I surrender, you know, it's like without just being careless and like laxed and not motivated.
01:20:02Right.
01:20:03Cause a lot of people are motivated, but then, you know, how I explain to people is, yeah,
01:20:08you have to plan boldly.
01:20:10The Bible even tells us like who sits back and then plans to build, builds a house without
01:20:15planning, without a blueprint.
01:20:16Right.
01:20:17So I think people get this misunderstanding of Christianity where it's like, you have to
01:20:23just let go control completely.
01:20:25You don't do anything.
01:20:26It's like, no, you do everything with the heart of, Hey, God, I hope the outcome is this.
01:20:32If it's aligned with what you want, you're going to make it happen.
01:20:35And then it's just passing the glory to him.
01:20:38That's the understanding that made me let go of control in that way, where I still work
01:20:44every day.
01:20:45I still, I'm, I'm up at four in the morning, every single day we did in these three days,
01:20:50like three separate podcasts.
01:20:51We're doing turn and burn.
01:20:52I mean, if I had that mindset of, yeah, I'm just going to pray.
01:20:55And then it's going to come to me.
01:20:57That's not how it works.
01:20:58Right.
01:20:58But the Bible, again, that's a misconception that people have where it's like, you got to
01:21:02just do nothing.
01:21:03Right.
01:21:04And no, you still have to work, but the outcome is in his hands.
01:21:08It's this idea of grace of going, Hey God, I'm going to put all of my work in.
01:21:12If you want to bless it and we are realigned with you, go ahead.
01:21:17If not, then give me the heart to realign.
01:21:19How do you distinguish between God speaking to you and guiding you and your own inner monologue?
01:21:25Yes.
01:21:26Because for a very long time, your gut instinct led you to fire bullets out of a car or pop
01:21:33off on someone who didn't need it.
01:21:34100%.
01:21:35How do you learn what is impulsivity and a word that you should listen to?
01:21:45Yeah.
01:21:45So for me, it's not, again, I think there's a lot of emotionalism in religion nowadays,
01:21:50right?
01:21:50When it comes to the gospel, however, it's about the word.
01:21:55So what I've learned, I've read the Bible front to back 27 times.
01:21:58It's not to flex.
01:22:00What my pastor taught me was you have to go to the word always.
01:22:04So when you seek something, it cannot come from inside of you because your standard can
01:22:10change.
01:22:11Your feelings and emotions can change your voices in your head.
01:22:14You can be locked in one day.
01:22:15It can change.
01:22:16It's very unstable.
01:22:17So your job is to go to the word or the servants who know the word, right?
01:22:21So if I'm doing anything, it's always, what does the word say about this?
01:22:26What can I actively search and seek for?
01:22:29And obviously when you first start out, you don't know the word like that.
01:22:32So it's a lot of like still you leading yourself.
01:22:36But what I learned was if it doesn't match the word of God and doesn't point to God in
01:22:40some way, shape or form, it's not going to be from God, no matter how good it feels.
01:22:44And I think that's the issue with a lot of Christians nowadays.
01:22:47Is this, this idea of emotionalism, right?
01:22:50It's like, if I follow myself exactly, I thought I would die from my hood.
01:22:54And that led me to shoot and be like, well, I did it for my homies.
01:22:58I'm protecting them.
01:22:59Like we could spin it however we want because it's subjective and relative.
01:23:03The absolute for me was the word.
01:23:05It went completely against my thoughts and my feelings.
01:23:08Literally says in the Bible, my thoughts are not your thoughts.
01:23:10My way is not your way.
01:23:12So get to know me, meaning the word.
01:23:14When I started to read it five times front to back, you know, cover to cover, I started
01:23:19to get this discernment.
01:23:21Oh, this is what God would want in this way.
01:23:25So when you move it this way, it's no longer you, Johnny, what do you think?
01:23:29I think the issue with a lot of people in religion aside is I am the judge.
01:23:35And again, I can be the judge if everything's going good, but what if I'm handicapped?
01:23:40What if I'm broken?
01:23:41What if I'm empty?
01:23:42Then what I produce will be probably those things as well, right?
01:23:47And so, yeah, I had to unlearn a lot of that and go, I can't really follow.
01:23:51You know, obviously we have practical thoughts.
01:23:53Am I hungry?
01:23:54Should I do this, right?
01:23:55But I'm saying when things come, it has to like, when an opportunity comes, what the
01:24:01way I'm thinking is what does scripture say about this?
01:24:04What would God think about this, right?
01:24:07At the very least, you're realigning foundationally versus, oh yeah, I want that deal because I
01:24:13want it.
01:24:13And then trying to bend God's will to like, you know, do that, right?
01:24:17So I think that's the difference between, you know, what I believe in versus someone going,
01:24:24well, God told me, okay, God told you, but in Hebrews 4, 12, it says discernment comes
01:24:30from the word.
01:24:30So God told you, where's the scripture to back up what he told you?
01:24:34And that's the center line.
01:24:35So a lot of people, God told me, put it in my heart.
01:24:37I downloaded.
01:24:37Okay, great.
01:24:38What I'm looking for after that is what scripture is saying.
01:24:41And Holy Spirit, it's called the spirit of truth will lead you back to the word.
01:24:45It says, right?
01:24:46So you can't just be like, Holy Spirit told me to buy a Ferrari and it's like, sure, but
01:24:51where's the scripture to line this up, right?
01:24:54And if they can back it up and the scripture always points back to Jesus, John 5, 39.
01:25:00That's how we know, oh, this is the voice of God.
01:25:03This is how God speaks to us.
01:25:05Did becoming Christian ever feel like becoming weak?
01:25:08100%.
01:25:08Because for a good while, self-powered, agentic, I'm going to make things happen.
01:25:14Then you get into prison, high T religion, right?
01:25:17Islam.
01:25:18And now you're, you know, within 24 hours, forgiving your dad, you're turning the other cheek, you're
01:25:23crying, he's crying.
01:25:25Yeah.
01:25:25This is not, there's a big disconnect between the person that you were and the person that
01:25:30you're becoming now.
01:25:31Yeah.
01:25:32Yeah.
01:25:32I think it did.
01:25:33Um, until I realized that my filter of like what weak and strong was, was distorted.
01:25:39I think it took a lot of, I mean, honestly, I know this sounds crazy, but like when I was
01:25:46in the gang, like pulling the trigger and doing things like that was fairly easy for me because
01:25:50for me, it was like, bro, this is a chance for you to shine, right?
01:25:55Like people are going to be enamored by you when you do that.
01:25:58They're going to love you for doing this.
01:26:00Um, when you're Christian and you're like, turn the other cheek, it's like, okay, that's
01:26:06kind of performative in a lot of ways, at least for me.
01:26:08So I learned like, you know, it was a lot harder, uh, to be a Christian.
01:26:14Uh, you know, and I say this all the time.
01:26:17It's like my gang had six other gangs that were against us.
01:26:21We were in a green light against the Mexicans.
01:26:23Um, and you know, no one liked us.
01:26:27We were EBK stands for everybody killer.
01:26:29We weren't cool with anybody.
01:26:30How is it that I'm getting more, I'm getting more attacked now that I'm Christian than I
01:26:36was when I was in a gang.
01:26:38No one cared about what I said.
01:26:39No one made videos about me back then.
01:26:41Um, so, you know, it just goes to show that, uh, it is, it's weak in a, in a sense
01:26:47of sure, like bravado, high T tall, you know, high T and testosterone.
01:26:51But at the end of the day, I think it's actually true.
01:26:54It takes a lot of strength to go.
01:26:57I want to handle it the easy way and the easy route, which is being violent.
01:27:01So that every, I'm, I, why would I talk to you?
01:27:03I just beat the dog crap out of you.
01:27:06Or, um, do I choose, you know, to go, they may be wrong, but let me like hear them out.
01:27:12Let me like be human and rationalize with people and have dialogue.
01:27:16Um, I think that was very, very difficult, but once I learned it, it just became, it was
01:27:22like, uh, it was like strength almost, you know, on the list of things that you've done in your
01:27:26life, how high up the scary ranking does having that conversation with your dad go?
01:27:33Oh, that was, yeah.
01:27:34One of the, that was right next to going back to prison to preach.
01:27:37So they, they go neck and neck.
01:27:39So I would say it's like one in two, you know, it, it just switches depending on the mood.
01:27:44That's my point that, um, the bravado side of what does real strength look like?
01:27:53What does real, real fearlessness look like?
01:27:57Um, it's strange.
01:27:58Like how, how is it that somebody can run an ultra marathon a hundred miles, but not have
01:28:02a difficult conversation with their partner?
01:28:04You know, where are you applying your, I do hard things muscle?
01:28:10Um, you know, a lot of the time people will be prepared to get up at four in the morning
01:28:14and do the ice plunge and go for the run and stick to their diet, but they can't tell their
01:28:20parents that something really got to them that happened last week, or they're scared of opening
01:28:25up to their friend about how they're getting on mentally and go, okay, well, that's not,
01:28:30I'm not saying that the cold plunge in the 4am run is not tough.
01:28:33It is, but it's, it seems obvious that there's certain areas of your life where you're prepared
01:28:38to be tough and there's other areas where if we were to make a measurement, you're kind
01:28:43of weak.
01:28:44Yeah.
01:28:44Yeah.
01:28:45Yeah.
01:28:46A hundred percent.
01:28:47And I think just like to kind of tack onto that too, I mean, being weak is something that
01:28:50I also had to unlearn, right?
01:28:52Where it's like weak to you again, even that is also subjective in a lot of ways.
01:28:56Right.
01:28:57So I had to learn like, yeah, being weak to me doesn't actually mean you're weak.
01:29:02It's just you not getting there and you got to like unlearn a bunch of things.
01:29:06So, um, yeah, but I also think kind of to your point, people are, for me, at least it
01:29:12was also pride.
01:29:13Um, I think that was the, the, it was, it was pride in, in that I can't show weakness by
01:29:20being vulnerable because no one ever taught me that being vulnerable was strength.
01:29:23Right.
01:29:24So, um, yeah, and, and it was difficult for me, but I think after just seeing it kind
01:29:30of like riding a bike, you do it a few times and it just becomes, you get the hang of it.
01:29:34Remember as well, suppression, isn't the same thing as strength, suppression is different
01:29:40to strength.
01:29:41And I think a lot of what people do, what they, they claim as strength is not, it's, it's subjugation.
01:29:47It's a sublimation of whatever they're feeling into something else.
01:29:52Yeah.
01:29:53Um, but it's not suppression.
01:29:54It's not the same thing as strength.
01:29:55Yeah.
01:29:56Agreed.
01:29:57Bars.
01:29:58Yeah.
01:29:59What have you learned about forgiveness?
01:30:02Um, I've learned that forgiveness is not usually for the other person, but for you.
01:30:08I think when you're forgiving somebody, a lot of people have this misconception, at least
01:30:13I did, where it's like, Hey, I'm going to forgive this person, um, because they deserve
01:30:20it.
01:30:20And I think that's why they struggle with forgiving, right?
01:30:23Because you're not going to forgive somebody who doesn't deserve it.
01:30:25It's just natural.
01:30:27Um, what I realized was forgiving somebody was like you taking off the shackles of yourself
01:30:33and just making the decision of going, I'm never going to let these people like have that
01:30:38control or part, uh, uh, influence on, on my emotion or on my life.
01:30:43You know?
01:30:44So I think the hardest thing to learn that I learned from, uh, forgiveness, uh, was also
01:30:50the, the most beautiful thing is like, it's not for them.
01:30:53It's actually important for you to move forward.
01:30:56The second thing I also learned was it became easier when I was able to think outside of
01:31:02myself too, right?
01:31:03So it goes like double-edged sword.
01:31:05Yes.
01:31:05You got to think about yourself, of course, cause you know, that matters, but you also have
01:31:09to take, you have to have the, I guess, the maturity to step out of yourself and go, where
01:31:17was I like this?
01:31:18So, you know, I'll give you an example.
01:31:20Like when it came to my father and I saw that he was, he betrayed me, he promised things,
01:31:26you know, to us as kids.
01:31:27I remember he wasn't always bad.
01:31:29Like there was certain times where he would try to like, said he was going to take us to
01:31:32Universal or Disneyland and then didn't do it cause he got drunk.
01:31:36And I felt that betrayal.
01:31:38Uh, the way that I was able to think was, okay, outside of people doing me dirty, how many
01:31:45times did I betray other people?
01:31:46And then how many times did I betray?
01:31:48Okay.
01:31:48Forget other people.
01:31:49How many times did I betray God, right?
01:31:52I'm sitting there and I'm like, Jesus, I'm going to do this.
01:31:54And then I don't do it.
01:31:55Um, you know, I'm going to, I'll stop this for you.
01:31:57And I, I don't stop then in that way, I was able to be like, whoa, the fact that my dad
01:32:03is still breathing, um, the fact that he, you know, and other people who did me dirty are,
01:32:10are, are still alive is proof that there's mercy there.
01:32:13Cause if God had to destroy, um, that person or reprimand that person, then I also would
01:32:20have to be reprimanded as well.
01:32:21Cause I did the same thing.
01:32:22We're all the same.
01:32:24Um, so I think for me, uh, it just made me, you know, yes.
01:32:28Think about myself, but then also think outside of myself and go, man, God, like how many times
01:32:33did I do you dirty?
01:32:34Like many, many times.
01:32:36And I continue to, it's just part of our broken nature.
01:32:39And yet you don't like send a lightning bolt and strike me down.
01:32:43You don't, you know, you're, you're very loving to me to still, you give me opportunities
01:32:48and you bless me.
01:32:50And so, yeah, it also had to take me to think outside of myself.
01:32:55And I think that's a very difficult thing that I see with a lot of people.
01:32:59Yeah.
01:32:59Is it harder to forgive yourself or forgive your dad?
01:33:01Hmm.
01:33:02It was harder to forgive myself.
01:33:04I would say, cause I've like my dad, after understanding that he had trauma that he had at 19 years
01:33:14old, ran over somebody and took the guy's life.
01:33:16You know, his dad was an alcoholic and beat him.
01:33:19Like it was easier to go, okay, I get it.
01:33:22You know, I'm the same.
01:33:23We were literally two peas in a pod.
01:33:26What was difficult was there's times where I knew what I was doing was wrong and I still did it.
01:33:31Mm-hmm.
01:33:32I think that was very difficult.
01:33:33Consciousness.
01:33:34Yeah.
01:33:35Yeah.
01:33:35It was like, I would, I would be lying, you know?
01:33:38And, and the one thing I, I, I think I've seen across all convicts.
01:33:42Convicts, you know, I've been to many prisons in my life and just even now visiting is nobody
01:33:47talks about their crimes, like true people who really have done dirt.
01:33:54They don't talk about it.
01:33:55Um, and I realize it's because it brings so much shame and guilt, right?
01:34:00Cause when you're doing something like that and you're boasting about it, I mean, you see
01:34:06like rappers and stuff like, that's the cool thing to do.
01:34:09That's what they, their, their persona.
01:34:11But I've seen real convicts who they look completely great, book smart, jailhouse lawyers, and look
01:34:19like they would never hurt a fly.
01:34:21And you, you hear like they leak a little what they did and you're like, dude, you're a monster.
01:34:26You killed five people.
01:34:27Like what the hell?
01:34:28It's like crazy.
01:34:29Um, so what I see in, in that is that there's a lot of guilt and there's a lot of shame.
01:34:36And we don't, we just don't, you wouldn't want to rehash or talk about those types of things.
01:34:40So that being said, it's very difficult because the condemnation comes.
01:34:46You chose, you knew, and you even had a choice.
01:34:49You feel culpable.
01:34:50Yeah, exactly.
01:34:51And you're just like, so what?
01:34:53You still did it.
01:34:54And I think that's the most, uh, that was the toughest thing for me was to be like, okay,
01:35:00God forgave me.
01:35:01But like, I still remember my sins.
01:35:03I just remember what I did and it was very difficult.
01:35:07But, uh, thanks for giving yourself for not forgiving yourself yet.
01:35:11Yeah.
01:35:12Interesting line.
01:35:13Yeah.
01:35:14Like I, uh, I recently went and did a seven day meditation retreat.
01:35:18And one of the days we focused on forgiveness is very interesting.
01:35:22And the loop that they got you into, because it was all high powered Silicon Valley people
01:35:28silent retreat.
01:35:29So, you know, we're locked in doing, you know, four, six, eight hour sits per day.
01:35:34You know, accumulated a lot of time, a lot of time in silence.
01:35:37And, um, everybody wants to do it right.
01:35:40Everyone wants to get it right.
01:35:42I want to make progress.
01:35:43I want to show and the, okay, today's forgiveness.
01:35:46I'm going to fucking forgive everybody, including myself.
01:35:49And then you don't.
01:35:51And the kind of judo throw, uno reverse card that they suggested was, you know, you can forgive
01:35:58yourself for not forgiving yourself yet.
01:35:59Yeah.
01:36:00And this tiny little gesture of, all right.
01:36:04All right.
01:36:05I guess I work hard and I really want to do this thing and I haven't yet.
01:36:08And okay, well, that's, I really appreciate you trying so much.
01:36:13Yeah.
01:36:14And there's just a little bit of release.
01:36:16Yeah.
01:36:17That's that.
01:36:17I wrote this thing down.
01:36:18I wanted to tell you, um, one of my notes from my journal while I was away, it was the
01:36:23forgiveness day.
01:36:24It says, forgiveness is choosing to no longer suffer the things that you cannot change.
01:36:28It is simply to give up on the hope of changing the past.
01:36:32It's awfully useless to cling to the idea of altering history.
01:36:35We forgive to enlighten ourselves.
01:36:37Yeah.
01:36:37I thought that was really nice.
01:36:38The idea it's, it's useless to cling to the idea of altering history.
01:36:41You can't do it.
01:36:42And it's just giving up on the hope of changing the past.
01:36:45Yeah.
01:36:45When you see it like that, it becomes, maybe that's a bit of a, um, productivity bro,
01:36:50uh, trick to kind of make it functional.
01:36:53But I think if you get in, you go, okay, this thing happened that I did, or somebody else
01:36:58did, or someone did to me, or I did to someone else and I can't change it.
01:37:02Yeah.
01:37:03What am I carrying?
01:37:04Mm-hmm.
01:37:05Like, what am I carrying here?
01:37:06Have I learned from it?
01:37:07Sure.
01:37:08Have I prostrated myself enough?
01:37:09Have I whipped myself into submission sufficiently?
01:37:11Right.
01:37:12Okay.
01:37:13Well, maybe I can give myself a little bit of room.
01:37:15And if I can't, maybe I can give myself a little bit of room about not giving myself
01:37:18a little bit of room.
01:37:19Right.
01:37:19And that's the gateway drug to start it to spiral.
01:37:22A hundred percent.
01:37:23Yeah.
01:37:23That's deep.
01:37:24That's super deep.
01:37:25What, what do you do if someone comes?
01:37:27So for me, I always like, there's all this information out there, but there's very little
01:37:33application, right?
01:37:34So like, practically speaking, if someone is like, you know, they come to you, Chris, or
01:37:39they come to me, you know, what would you say to someone who's like, Hey, I want to
01:37:44forgive myself.
01:37:45I don't know how.
01:37:46And then let's say we say those things to them, right?
01:37:48It's like, Oh, great.
01:37:49Good information.
01:37:49But like, what, how do I now apply that to myself?
01:37:52Like you say, let go.
01:37:54People are always doing that with Christianity.
01:37:56They're saying, have faith, have faith.
01:37:58Okay.
01:37:59But how, how do you, how do I have faith?
01:38:00Teach me how, like, how would you answer that?
01:38:03I mean, making anything esoteric, more conceptual, practical is, is hard.
01:38:09Yeah.
01:38:10I think at least something that's worked for me is inviting the parts of me that I'm not
01:38:16so proud of, or that I wish I didn't have or thoughts from the past, inviting them in.
01:38:22And this is the jhana practice, the meditation that I followed for a good while and still do
01:38:27now.
01:38:28It sees you as different parts, different bits of you.
01:38:31Oh, there's that bit of me that is frustrated that things aren't going well during this meditation
01:38:36sit.
01:38:37Yeah.
01:38:38I see it and I think, huh, I know that that's annoying, but also I really appreciate that
01:38:44part of me that wants to do well.
01:38:46Like, look at how hard he's working.
01:38:47Yeah.
01:38:48Okay.
01:38:49You come here and you bring these parts of you in.
01:38:50Yeah.
01:38:51And I think that a lot of even great mindfulness practices, even going to the gym, like you're
01:38:57almost pushing away these parts.
01:38:59You're not bringing them into you.
01:39:01Here's a bit of me that I don't feel too good about.
01:39:03Sure.
01:39:04And if I get enough endorphins, it kind of sends him over the far side of the room.
01:39:07It staves him off for a little while.
01:39:09Gotcha, gotcha.
01:39:10As opposed to being like, huh, you're here for a reason.
01:39:12Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:39:13I'm really glad that you're here.
01:39:14And hey, you're like a, you know, I had this vision in my mind.
01:39:19It goes to show just how fucking 2026 brained I am.
01:39:22But I had this vision in my mind that there was this part of me that wanted to do things
01:39:26really well, that wanted to work incredibly hard, that wants to get it right, wants to
01:39:29be seen and follow the rules and do stuff.
01:39:32Yeah.
01:39:33And he's like a Roomba, you know, one of those robot vacuums.
01:39:35Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:39:36Overly enthusiastic.
01:39:37Yeah.
01:39:38And he's going around fucking like, he gets stuck in corners, bouncing up against stuff.
01:39:41Yeah, yeah.
01:39:42He's cleaning an area.
01:39:43He's already cleaned 20 times before.
01:39:44And I'm like, ah, he's trying so hard.
01:39:47I really, really appreciate how hard he's trying.
01:39:50Come here.
01:39:51Like you can come in and be a part of that.
01:39:53So I think offering a little bit of gratitude to that part of you.
01:39:59Thank you for being here.
01:40:00I see that you're trying hard.
01:40:01I don't need you right now, but I appreciate that you're here anyway and come in.
01:40:05And that to me, completely non theological, but at least practically it's worked a bit.
01:40:11Yeah.
01:40:11Yeah.
01:40:11So like acknowledgement, essentially acknowledging and instead of avoiding.
01:40:15And a hundred percent.
01:40:16Seeing it.
01:40:16Thank you for being here.
01:40:17Yep.
01:40:17Yep.
01:40:17Bring it in.
01:40:18Yeah.
01:40:18Yeah.
01:40:19Gratitude.
01:40:19I always say like affects the attitude and it's true, right?
01:40:22I think in Christianity, it's the same.
01:40:24Um, a lot of people say they're Christian, but then like, I, when I look at them, they're
01:40:27not grateful for a lot of things.
01:40:29And it's like unfortunate.
01:40:31Um, and I can speak on that space.
01:40:32Cause I'm in that space.
01:40:33It's like, yeah, I, I, I'm grateful when I'm blessed.
01:40:38You know, they kind of transactionalize these things, right?
01:40:40Well, I prayed to God and I pushed F3 and then vending machine, you know, underneath
01:40:45the blessing should come.
01:40:46So I think it's important to definitely religious, religion aside, Christianity aside to be like
01:40:53thankful.
01:40:54And I think the way that helps me, uh, be thankful, similar to what you're saying is to think about
01:40:59the things as like, objectively, okay, there's a reason why this is here.
01:41:04And it's easier for us being Christian.
01:41:06I think only because we can go, God could snap his fingers and remove these things.
01:41:11Why is he allowing this to stay here?
01:41:13If he's almighty and all-powerful.
01:41:14A sense of purpose.
01:41:15Yes.
01:41:15It's like, he's almighty, he's all-powerful.
01:41:18What is the purpose behind this?
01:41:20Right?
01:41:20What is his will?
01:41:21And then you kind of feel the peace of like, huh, there's a lesson.
01:41:25The way, what I say is there's either a lesson or a blessing.
01:41:27He's either going to teach us something, which all is a blessing at the end of the day.
01:41:30Cause you're going to gain those things.
01:41:32Um, and, and yeah, it just helps in so many ways.
01:41:36You know, it's difficult, I guess, where I, where I see it is when someone doesn't believe,
01:41:41then it's harder to articulate that aspect of it.
01:41:44Cause-
01:41:45Because you're the only person who's got their hand on the rudder.
01:41:47Exactly.
01:41:48You're the only one that's steering.
01:41:49Yeah.
01:41:50Yeah.
01:41:51Exactly.
01:41:52What are you going back into prisons to teach?
01:41:55I think it was the pride, uh, just how they would see me.
01:41:59And especially cause that first prison was like my alma mater.
01:42:03It was the one I was at.
01:42:05Um, yeah.
01:42:06So going back to the spot that I was at where everyone knows.
01:42:09How long was?
01:42:10Uh, the stretch was only, I was out three years, two years, two and a half years.
01:42:16So there's still tons of people in there that would have known you.
01:42:19Most of them?
01:42:19Most of them.
01:42:20That's how it was.
01:42:21A homecoming, a welcoming party, right?
01:42:23What was that like driving back the writing?
01:42:27Yeah.
01:42:27I straight up had a panic attack.
01:42:29So I remember, um, you know, my pastors like, Hey, Johnny, you went through this crazy stuff
01:42:35in life.
01:42:36He showed me revelation 12, 11.
01:42:38He said, you know, uh, we overcome by the blood of the lamb and the word of our testimony.
01:42:42Meaning you can help people overcome with Jesus and, or your testimony.
01:42:47And I'm like, dang, I got to talk about my story.
01:42:49Like, oh my gosh.
01:42:50Like, how detailed do I have to be?
01:42:52Like some of this stuff is cold cases.
01:42:54And you know what?
01:42:54Oh, you know, like, what am I doing here?
01:42:56Right.
01:42:56Am I going to end up back in prison?
01:42:58And so I tried to, because up until then he's led me, just changed my life completely.
01:43:04You know, transformed me a lot.
01:43:06And so, um, yeah, I remember he goes, we got a contract with this prison and it was a prison
01:43:13that I was at.
01:43:14And I was like, oh my gosh, like I'll go to any other prison except for that one.
01:43:19But at that time, this was like, you know, uh, just very like the prisons were not allowing
01:43:26volunteers to really come in.
01:43:28And it was very difficult, right?
01:43:29But we, we got it and it just so happened to be that prison and only that prison.
01:43:33So I, I, you know, I say okay to pastor, but as the days, it was just a week before I get
01:43:41to the day of and full on panic attack.
01:43:46Oh, the homies are in there.
01:43:48One of my homies is still like my cellmates still in there.
01:43:50Like they, they've seen me crack off riots.
01:43:53And now I'm in here like, Jesus can help you too.
01:43:55It's like, I feel fraudulent and I was just like, nah.
01:43:59And then I started getting mad.
01:44:01Like I realized when I get scared, I get angry, right?
01:44:03When I get sad, I get angry.
01:44:05It always, it's just this thing of like anger at the end of it.
01:44:08So I just remember like blowing up pastor, like, and then he wasn't picking up and I'm
01:44:13like, okay, me being a man of my word is very big to me.
01:44:18I told him, yes, I'm panicking.
01:44:21All right, let me try this prayer thing.
01:44:22You know, I'll pray and I'm driving to the prisons and I'm with my friend.
01:44:26He's, he's a minister at this time.
01:44:27He's a pastor now, but it was a minister.
01:44:29And he's like, Johnny, it's okay.
01:44:31You know, again, he's never lived that life.
01:44:33Never, you know, and he's, I'm like, don't say nothing, bro.
01:44:36Like, you don't understand.
01:44:36And I'm like popping off on him.
01:44:39We get there and I see the CO's and I'm like, I turned me back.
01:44:44Did they know that it was you that was coming?
01:44:46Of course.
01:44:46Right.
01:44:47Yeah.
01:44:47But cause you have to, you know, you have to submit your information before that.
01:44:51And I see them and then I'm just like, bro, we don't even make it to the gate, bro.
01:44:56I'm like, turn around.
01:44:58And then he's just like, what?
01:45:00Are you serious?
01:45:01We drove like almost two hours and I turned the F around like cussing.
01:45:05And he's like, oh, and he calls and he's blowing up pastor.
01:45:08And then he calls pastor's wife and pastor's wife is with pastor, gives him the phone.
01:45:12And he's like, pastor, you know, Johnny's not listening and he's just pissed.
01:45:16And I'm like, I don't give a F, you know?
01:45:18And then I pick up the phone and he's like, can I talk to Johnny?
01:45:20And he picks up the phone and he goes, Johnny, what's going on?
01:45:25I said, pastor, uh, I don't want to do this.
01:45:29If I have to leave religion and I, I will denounce Christianity.
01:45:33If you're making me do this, this is too much of a cross for me to bear.
01:45:37It's too much.
01:45:39And pastor goes, he just laughs and I'm like, what the hell?
01:45:43And he goes, you know, what's funny?
01:45:45And I'm, and I enraged at this point, I'm furious.
01:45:48What's funny.
01:45:49Like, what are you talking about?
01:45:49You're not the one going in, you know, you don't have this compounded trauma.
01:45:53And he goes, think back to when you did drugs.
01:45:57Think back to when you robbed people.
01:45:59Did you ever have a thought of like, I shouldn't be doing this.
01:46:02I should never do this.
01:46:03What the hell is wrong with me?
01:46:05And I thought about it and I was like, no, he's like, would you get this angry?
01:46:10If like you, you know, would do drugs?
01:46:14He's probably very happy, right?
01:46:16Yeah.
01:46:16He goes, don't you think it's kind of funny that now that you're trying to do the work
01:46:21of God, you're trying to go there and actually potentially help people.
01:46:25All of a sudden you're getting attacked this way.
01:46:28And I think through that, he taught me the lesson of spiritual warfare.
01:46:32He's like, when you're trying to do good, there's always evil in there, right?
01:46:37It says in Romans 7, he said, verse 18, 19.
01:46:39And he's like, so you, Johnny, like, I think the enemy is threatened by what you're going
01:46:46to do.
01:46:47I think, you know, if you just walk and take a step, I think it'll, you'll, again, just
01:46:53like with your father, when you're having a panic attack with him and you were stressed
01:46:57out and you weren't sure, I think, you know, you can experience that, right?
01:47:01And this is a good chance and a good opportunity for you to walk by faith because it doesn't
01:47:06make sense.
01:47:06Yeah.
01:47:06Why would I be so insensitive?
01:47:08That's what your thoughts are telling you.
01:47:10But I want you to learn how to experience God, how to grow with God and how to like walk
01:47:14forward and break this, you know?
01:47:17And it may, again, it made sense.
01:47:19And I'm like, but it didn't make it easier.
01:47:21Right.
01:47:22And being honest, I'm like, I, yeah, I'm not going to do that.
01:47:26But him saying that, it took me another week of processing it, of going, he's wrong, but
01:47:34he's right.
01:47:35But it was like this internal struggle, right?
01:47:37So you didn't go in.
01:47:37I didn't.
01:47:38I didn't.
01:47:39I didn't.
01:47:39And so, yeah.
01:47:40And I was waiting for him to like, almost waiting for him to pop off on me so I can utilize
01:47:45that as an excuse to leave.
01:47:47Cause I was a runner too, in that way where I'm like, I'm not going to face this.
01:47:50I'm out.
01:47:51This Christian life stuff is too hard for me.
01:47:53You know?
01:47:55Fast forward a week.
01:47:56It's fascinating saying that as someone that was inside for 13 years.
01:47:59Yeah.
01:48:00Christianity is too hard.
01:48:01Prison for a decade and a half.
01:48:02Exactly.
01:48:03Crazy.
01:48:04But, um, he, you know, after processing what he said, I was truly able to see like, man,
01:48:11he's right.
01:48:12Like as much as I'm being mad and frustrated and being immature, like he is right.
01:48:17So I went back and I did talk to him again and he's like, Johnny, you don't have to go.
01:48:22I just want you to understand.
01:48:24Like, I just, I'm only challenging you up cause I'm calling you up.
01:48:28Right.
01:48:28And it's kind of like, again, like working out, you know, you, you can't just be lifting five
01:48:33pounds.
01:48:33Like you got to grow, bro.
01:48:36And he's like, and I, it's because I love you.
01:48:38I care about you.
01:48:39And so I'm like, okay, you know, I'll try again.
01:48:44Same thing happened.
01:48:45Driving over there, panic attack.
01:48:48But this time I just remember his voice, like just listening to what he was saying and repeating
01:48:54it in my head.
01:48:55Like the enemy wants to do something and you know, you don't see it, but when was he ever
01:49:02wrong?
01:49:02Like you listened to this dude and things changed.
01:49:04Your life has changed.
01:49:06You haven't been back to prison.
01:49:07And that's what also flipped.
01:49:10My mindset was like, dude, I'm two years and a half out of prison.
01:49:13Like the homie didn't even make it six months.
01:49:16The Muslim guy.
01:49:17Whoa.
01:49:17And then it started to just register to me.
01:49:19And I'm like, huh, okay.
01:49:21And it gave me a little bit of that boost of confidence, I guess, that I needed.
01:49:25And then I get in there and you get there and I see we're walking towards the yard and
01:49:31it's my homie who's doing life without parole.
01:49:34What's up?
01:49:34He says my name, which is my AKA.
01:49:36He doesn't call me Johnny.
01:49:37He says my, you know, street name.
01:49:39What's up, bro?
01:49:40And I'm like, oh my God.
01:49:41And I'm like immediately like embarrassed as hell, you know?
01:49:45And then the guy next to me, he's like, again, not living that lifestyle.
01:49:49He's like, why did he call you like ill, like, like mentally ill, right?
01:49:53And he's like, why did he call you?
01:49:55I was like, long story, you know, that's what they call me.
01:49:58And he's like, he didn't understand it.
01:50:00So we're just, it was just weird, right?
01:50:02I'm walking through, I meet another dude.
01:50:04He's like, what's up, homie?
01:50:06Hey, you made it out.
01:50:06Like, what are you doing?
01:50:07And he's seen the visitor badge and he's like, you're doing like, where?
01:50:12Let me sign up.
01:50:12And he was being, it was just like this little bit of like being cool.
01:50:15And I'm like, okay, but I'm making excuses still.
01:50:18Those are the homies.
01:50:19They're going to support me, whatever.
01:50:21I get in here and it's random people in that class.
01:50:24I don't know any of these people.
01:50:25They're just random, you know, level two, level four, level three people.
01:50:29And, you know, when they walk in, they just, I like stick out like a sore thumb.
01:50:35Cause this dude's like square, no tattoos, spotless, you know, Korean guy, broken English, you know?
01:50:42And then there's me just like blasted like this.
01:50:45And they're just like, come up to me and I'm like, Hey guys, how you doing?
01:50:49And, you know, um, and I'm trying to speak proper.
01:50:52And then, um, I'm like, can I share my testimony with you guys?
01:50:55And they're like, yeah, for sure.
01:50:57Um, and I grew up here and I just tell the whole story.
01:50:59Like I told you more in detail, of course, and they just kind of get blown away.
01:51:05Like, Hey, that emptiness that I felt, you know, um, at the end of it, they come up to
01:51:10me and they're like shaking my hand.
01:51:12Not only are they shaking my hand, they're telling, they're, they're being vulnerable.
01:51:16Yo, bro.
01:51:16I felt that emptiness last night.
01:51:18When you said one thought turns into 10, like I was literally doing that, bro.
01:51:22I was about to kill myself.
01:51:23And I don't know, maybe it's God or like, I just got God really worked for you.
01:51:27Like, they're like asking me these things.
01:51:29And so, you know, um, we ended up leaving.
01:51:33That's there's, uh, 75 people in that class.
01:51:37We ended up leaving.
01:51:39Um, I remember going to the, the car and I just break down.
01:51:45I think that's the first time I started really bawling.
01:51:49Like aside from my dad where I'm like, Oh my gosh.
01:51:53Again, pastors, right?
01:51:54Like, how is it that like, I would have never experienced that.
01:51:58It would have never lit up like a fire in me.
01:52:01It wouldn't, it was almost like I found a purpose in some way, right?
01:52:05Up until that point, it was like, yeah, I'm broken and God's great.
01:52:08But like, what, where do we go from here?
01:52:10You know?
01:52:11And it was like, whoa, I guess this is prison ministry.
01:52:14Like I, it makes sense.
01:52:15I went through all of this.
01:52:16God's not going to not use it.
01:52:18He's going to utilize it.
01:52:19And, um, from then on, I just continue to go to the prisons.
01:52:22And then I would see people change.
01:52:24We would have Muslims.
01:52:25We would have Buddhists in our class.
01:52:27We'd have atheists, agnostic, whoever they would come.
01:52:30And then they would be changed.
01:52:32And, and even if they didn't agree, someone would be like, okay, we don't know about all
01:52:35this God stuff, but that emptiness that you're talking about, I felt that anxiety, that depression.
01:52:40I felt, how do you get over it over that?
01:52:42Okay.
01:52:42I'll try to distrust my thoughts.
01:52:44Maybe not follow myself so much and let's see how that works.
01:52:47And they changed.
01:52:48It was beautiful, bro.
01:52:50Yeah.
01:52:51What do you think 12 year old Johnny would think if he could see you now?
01:52:55Oh my gosh, bro.
01:52:56That's a great question.
01:52:58Um, I think I wouldn't, if the 12 year old me wouldn't obviously believe and would probably
01:53:08just be like, whoa, you're famous, like, you know what I mean?
01:53:12Like, that's it.
01:53:13Like, whoa, you're famous, dude.
01:53:15Awesome.
01:53:16Sick tattoos.
01:53:17Nice YouTube channel.
01:53:17Yeah.
01:53:18Yeah.
01:53:18Yeah.
01:53:18Dope YouTube.
01:53:19Can I get on?
01:53:20You know, like, um, but truthfully too, also, um, I, I don't think I, I, I would understand.
01:53:27I think at that time it wasn't that I was unreachable, but I just think that my mind was so set
01:53:35on like looking up to somebody, um, yeah, if I had someone like me who understood at that
01:53:40moment, I wouldn't end up the way I was for sure.
01:53:43But, um, if I, I didn't even know that, like, I didn't know that people like this existed.
01:53:48I was just very like gang members.
01:53:52They're the, they're the top dogs.
01:53:53You have to be that.
01:53:55And so I, I think I probably would have thought I was lame, like in a way, like he's cool.
01:54:00He's famous, but as soon as you say the Christian stuff, I'm cool, bro.
01:54:04Like, it's just, I think that's, if I'm being aggressive enough, you're not hard enough.
01:54:08Yeah.
01:54:09Yeah.
01:54:09And then, um, you know, I, I think I had to go through all of that to recognize that,
01:54:15you know, I've seen so many people that are like me, super peaceful.
01:54:19And people come up to me, bro, like you really, were you locked up?
01:54:22Really?
01:54:22You did that?
01:54:23Like, you don't even have that, those tendencies, but I don't think they understand like the chaos
01:54:27I've been through that's why, and I think at a point you do get to this point where you
01:54:32just want like serenity and you just want like happiness and peace.
01:54:38So you do end up just being chill.
01:54:42You can't enjoy any of it.
01:54:43If you don't have peace, there is no, and I'm fortunate enough to have been around, you
01:54:49know, some of the richest, most well-known high status people on the planet.
01:54:53Yeah.
01:54:54It, there is no amount of socioeconomic or follow account escape velocity that can outstrip
01:55:03an unpeaceful life.
01:55:04Like if you go to bed on a nighttime and you don't have peace, and that's not to say that
01:55:07you are supposed to have peace for the entirety of your life.
01:55:09Like shit's going to happen.
01:55:10It's very good.
01:55:11If you can fucking grip the bar, rip it off the floor, fix the problem, all that stuff.
01:55:15But there is no out accelerating an unpeaceful life, especially a chronic unpeaceful life.
01:55:22So like, what do you, what is all of this for?
01:55:25What is all of this for?
01:55:26If you achieve everything that you want and you can't lay your head on a pillow and not
01:55:34be worrying about things?
01:55:35Like what is that?
01:55:36The price that you are paying is not worth what you're getting in return.
01:55:39So true.
01:55:40So true.
01:55:41Yeah.
01:55:42Yeah.
01:55:42I think that's the one thing that changed my life was to see my mom, right?
01:55:47I think that's what kind of opened the door to me even wanting to talk with my pastor is
01:55:53she was still with my dad who was drunk, beating her.
01:55:58Not as much.
01:55:59It kind of, the beatings kind of got better, but still here and there.
01:56:03And then having two kids, not just me, but my brother doing time too.
01:56:07And then me at this time, making 40, 50 K not saved, you know, selling drugs, having
01:56:1445 on my waist, man, like for her to still be like, I'm happy.
01:56:21I, like, I couldn't understand it.
01:56:24Like, I just looked at my mom and I was like, I know, and I've seen her have the thousand
01:56:29yards there and be the broken person and have that emptiness to be like, no, God is good.
01:56:35And she would say crazy things, bro.
01:56:37She'd be like, your father is the world's best husband.
01:56:40And I was like, oh, Johnny, you're going to be a gospel preacher one day.
01:56:44And the world's best gospel preacher.
01:56:46She like kept using this world's best stuff.
01:56:48Right.
01:56:49And I'm like, and mom, you're schizophrenic.
01:56:53And we're taking you off to a facility.
01:56:55Yeah.
01:56:55Literally.
01:56:56Right.
01:56:56You need the straight jacket, but it's like, I didn't understand it.
01:57:00But what I can't deny was that when she said it, the conviction she had, the confidence and
01:57:05the peace.
01:57:06And I'm like, dang.
01:57:08And then it kind of turned out that way.
01:57:10My dad is so much better.
01:57:12It's so weird, bro.
01:57:13Asians, they're just not like affectionate.
01:57:15So like, there's times where I'll go visit them and just pop up, like surprise them.
01:57:20And I'll see my dad and my mom cuddling on the couch, like watching TV.
01:57:24And I'm like, ew, like, what the heck?
01:57:27I think that's an Asian thing.
01:57:28I think that's an, everyone's got like a literal, like, put it away.
01:57:31Yeah.
01:57:31Yeah.
01:57:31Yeah.
01:57:32They'll hold hands.
01:57:33And then when my dad sees me, like throws her hand on the side and I'm just like, pops,
01:57:37I caught you slipping.
01:57:38Yeah.
01:57:39But it's just.
01:57:39I'm not gay.
01:57:40I promise.
01:57:40I'm not gay.
01:57:40Yeah.
01:57:41Yeah.
01:57:41Yeah.
01:57:41So it's just, it's weird to, to see that dynamic.
01:57:45And it's all, it all stemmed from my mom's faith and her peace and her belief system,
01:57:49which my brother's saved now.
01:57:51It's, it's kind of wild.
01:57:52So your mom is kind of the savior at the top of the, the Avaland.
01:57:55A hundred percent.
01:57:56It was her solo dolo Asian, you know, in a traditionally Buddhist household to be like,
01:58:03yeah, I'm going to introduce some peace and some Jesus.
01:58:05And I'm like, you're crazy to like, now we're all crazy, I guess, you know, it's like,
01:58:10but it's just, it was just, it's beautiful.
01:58:12You know, what peace can do to your point, how you, like, what I say is like, the way
01:58:17you carry yourself is like a sermon, right?
01:58:19Like I could preach all day, a bomb sermon and then be like doing drugs at night.
01:58:24It's just the actions don't match.
01:58:26Right.
01:58:26And so I guess I just want to encourage people to understand that, like the way you carry
01:58:31yourself is very important.
01:58:33You can talk about peace all day and talk about grinding and, you know, productivity and things
01:58:38like that.
01:58:38But if, if a person, I guess what I'm always looking for is like, can I represent and reflect
01:58:45Jesus and peace and love?
01:58:47Um, because what, what's the point to your point, what's the point of life?
01:58:51If you can't really have people, inspire people, help people and all that, like what, I'm a,
01:58:56I'm a Christian.
01:58:57This is my story.
01:58:58It's great.
01:58:58Like, no, I want to be able to inspire and help others too.
01:59:01Yeah.
01:59:02Johnny, you're the best, dude.
01:59:03Thank you.
01:59:04You're absolutely real.
01:59:04Appreciate you, bro.
01:59:05Really fantastic.
01:59:07Where should people go?
01:59:07I know you've got so much stuff going on.
01:59:09Where should people go to check out more of your stuff?
01:59:11Um, so we have an app on the app store.
01:59:13It's called Core of the Heart Daily.
01:59:14It's my 10 years of teachings, my secret notes, everything, um, placed into the app.
01:59:19It's available on any app store, a play store.
01:59:21It's free.
01:59:22Um, and yeah, it, it has, it starts with the devotional.
01:59:26Um, and then you guys can find me on all social media platforms, Johnny Chang live,
01:59:30Tik TOK, Instagram, YouTube, and I stream live where I do these Q and A's.
01:59:34A lot of people come up, why does God allow babies to die?
01:59:38And these hard questions, I like answering them.
01:59:40So you guys can find me there too.
01:59:42Appreciate you, man.
01:59:42Until next time.
01:59:43Thank you, good sir.
01:59:44Goodbye, everyone.
01:59:45Appreciate you.
01:59:45All righty.
01:59:45Dude.
01:59:47Fucking dog.
01:59:47Yeah.
01:59:48Thank you, bro.
01:59:49Thank you, bro.
01:59:50Congratulations.
01:59:51You made it to the end of a podcast episode without dying.
01:59:54Now, here's another one.
01:59:56Come on.
01:59:57Watch it.
Community Posts
No posts yet. Be the first to write about this video!
Write about this video