The Art of Unstoppable Self-Belief - Joe Santagato

English

CChris Williamson

Small Business/StartupsAdvertising/MarketingManagement

Transcript

00:00:00Joe Santagato, welcome to the show.

00:00:01Wow, that was intense.

00:00:02You said my name like so British, I love it.

00:00:05Thank you for having me is what I meant.

00:00:06I have to pronounce it correctly, okay?

00:00:08Yeah, it's a tough one.

00:00:09People just read and they say Santiago.

00:00:11And I'm like, all right.

00:00:12Anybody comes up to me and they're like,

00:00:13are you Joe Santiago?

00:00:14I'm like, yeah.

00:00:15Sure.

00:00:15Like, whatever.

00:00:16Imagine if there's a really famous Joe Santiago somewhere

00:00:18that's like, this guy keeps on taking all of my cred.

00:00:22I assume that that has to be the case,

00:00:24but it's just me, plain old white.

00:00:26That's true.

00:00:27Italian-Irish.

00:00:27That's true.

00:00:29Plain and white as you can get.

00:00:31That's it.

00:00:31Actually, plainer and whiter is British, but-

00:00:33That is fair.

00:00:34Yeah.

00:00:34You have one of the biggest podcasts in the world

00:00:36and you recently sold out Madison Square Garden.

00:00:40Yeah.

00:00:41If you were to draw a Venn diagram of your audience-

00:00:46Yeah.

00:00:46And my audience-

00:00:47Right.

00:00:49How much crossover do we think there is?

00:00:56I think it would look like the front of a Jeep, dude.

00:00:58Just like, just kind of like, you know what I mean?

00:01:03I think so.

00:01:05I mean, I think that people are-

00:01:07You like that one.

00:01:09Got him with the Jeep.

00:01:11Yeah.

00:01:11I don't know that there's that much crossover.

00:01:13I don't know.

00:01:13But I'm sure that-

00:01:14That's a big place.

00:01:15Yeah.

00:01:15You know what I think?

00:01:17I don't really feel like I actually do have one of the biggest podcasts in the world.

00:01:23I think that I have a face that, because I've been on the internet for so long, that people

00:01:26are like, I've seen this guy before, but I don't really know what's going on.

00:01:32You know what I mean?

00:01:32Like, I think it's kind of like one of those things.

00:01:34Well, you do have one of the biggest podcasts.

00:01:37Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:01:37That, yeah.

00:01:38You can, like, brush it away.

00:01:41That was very British of you.

00:01:43Is it?

00:01:43That was really nice.

00:01:44Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:01:44Just do the self-deprecation.

00:01:45Well, you know, Madison Square Gardens, actually, it's only if you-

00:01:49Yeah, see, that doesn't even enter my consciousness that that actually happened.

00:01:53It's kind of a crazy, like, thing.

00:01:55Like, it's like, leading up to it, I went to a Noah Kahn concert at MSG beforehand, and

00:02:01I'm sitting in the crowd, and I'm looking around, and I'm like, no fucking way, dude.

00:02:05I was just thinking about, like, how many people work here, even?

00:02:08Like, that's a lot.

00:02:09And then we're going to, come on.

00:02:11You got to come into work for me?

00:02:13Yeah, like, you're telling me that the shop's going to be open, or, like, people are going

00:02:17to be selling Maker's Mark out there, and I'm going to be on stage?

00:02:21Are you kidding me?

00:02:21Like, get the fuck out of here.

00:02:23But, yeah, it happened.

00:02:24It was crazy.

00:02:24And, like, the little moments, too, is when it's the craziest, because I feel like I have

00:02:29to mentally lock in in those moments in some sort of way, and just pretend, like,

00:02:33yep, this is me.

00:02:34This is my show.

00:02:35I'm going to go do it.

00:02:35I'm supposed to be here.

00:02:36Yeah, and it's, like, a weird feeling.

00:02:38But then, as you're walking to the stage, there's, like, a big vinyl, like, on the wall.

00:02:46And then it says, like, the basement yard, and it says, like, sold-out show, and then

00:02:50the date or whatever.

00:02:51And it's, like, that was oddly a moment where I'm like, oh, fuck, this is happening.

00:02:57Like, this is crazy.

00:02:57And then you're walking through the hallway, and you see the photos of all these famous

00:03:02moments that happened there.

00:03:04And I'm like, what is going on, dude?

00:03:06My mom's really good at putting it in perspective for me, because she shows up, and she's just

00:03:10like, what are we doing?

00:03:12Like, what is it going on?

00:03:14And that's how I feel.

00:03:15Is that putting it in perspective?

00:03:17It is.

00:03:18It's kind of what it feels like.

00:03:19Because you could get lost in just doing the show and doing the thing, and you're kind

00:03:24of like, this is the next show.

00:03:26This is, yep, this is cool, but this is another show.

00:03:28But eventually, someone's just like, yo, we're standing in Madison Square Garden right

00:03:32now.

00:03:32I'm like, I know.

00:03:33What the fuck's happening?

00:03:34Like, it's crazy, dude.

00:03:36And it honestly is, I don't know.

00:03:40It doesn't make sense at all.

00:03:42It almost feels like the support that we have from our family.

00:03:47Like, I know fucking everyone says this, but like, truly, there is a, I feel like I can

00:03:51statistically show that the support that we get from our audience is so high compared

00:03:59to like, the viewership, you know?

00:04:01It's borderline religious.

00:04:02It's insane.

00:04:03Like, so, and-

00:04:05Which is the maddest thing, because the number of comments on this video that are going to

00:04:07be like, this guy's really funny.

00:04:10Who the fuck is he?

00:04:11Right.

00:04:11Which is what I want, by the way.

00:04:12Yes.

00:04:13I would like that.

00:04:15But, not like, who the fuck is this?

00:04:17Who the fuck is this?

00:04:18Jose fucking Santigo is like-

00:04:19Yeah.

00:04:20Just multiple different versions of my name.

00:04:22They're like, the fuck is this guy's name, dude?

00:04:26Damn, were you drinking in here?

00:04:27What's up?

00:04:28Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:04:28Get everything.

00:04:29No, I'm okay.

00:04:32Yeah, I don't even know what the fuck I was saying.

00:04:33To be honest, what were you talking about?

00:04:34Rabbit fans.

00:04:35The rabbit fans, yeah.

00:04:36So, one thing that I usually, like, kind of point to when it comes to that conversation

00:04:40is we have, like, a top five Patreon in the world, and they, and our viewership doesn't

00:04:48really match that metric.

00:04:51So, should we be top five?

00:04:53Not should, but, like, the fact that we have a top five just goes to show that-

00:04:56Based on the numbers.

00:04:57We were able to convert that many people into paying whatever it is every single month to

00:05:02get an extra episode of this podcast, which is, like, outrageous, and we get so much support

00:05:06from people in that way, and then all of, I think, every single show that we've done

00:05:10outside of, like, a casino show here and there have all sold out, and we also do really well

00:05:16on merch when we go to shows, and it's just because there's a rabid support of people,

00:05:21and one thing that is very interesting that I did not expect whatsoever is people in moments

00:05:29that are big for us, obviously, like, when we did Radio City and when we did MSG, the comments

00:05:36that they leave don't really feel, like, fanatic.

00:05:40It feels like a friend or someone that knows you, and they're like, I just want to let you

00:05:45know, like, I'm just so proud of you, and, like, that just, like, hits so different.

00:05:49It's like, man, what the, I didn't expect that, you know?

00:05:52Like, it really feels like there is a, you know, sort of a relationship there, like, this

00:05:59parasocial thing, but that, it truly, like, feels that way when it comes to that.

00:06:04Yeah.

00:06:04When other people are like, I know your uncle's name, I'm like, all right, chill out.

00:06:08Yeah, like, don't know that.

00:06:09Okay, fucking P.I.

00:06:10Yeah.

00:06:12Wyoming women are having the best sex in America.

00:06:15The women of the Cowboy State are riding more than just horses.

00:06:18Wyoming women are the most satisfied with their sex lives, according to a newly published report

00:06:21from Babeland, a sex toy boutique with locations in New York City and Seattle.

00:06:25Babeland determined which state's women were the most sexually satisfied through examining

00:06:30a host of different factors, including how often women have sex each week, how they rate

00:06:34their sexual experiences, as well as the number of sex shops per state, and the reviews for

00:06:39those adult boutiques.

00:06:40Wyoming women were at the top of the stateside pleasure heap, followed by New Hampshire, Maine,

00:06:45Oregon, and Texas.

00:06:47What do you think about that?

00:06:49One more time with the states.

00:06:52So Wyoming, New Hampshire, Maine, Oregon, and Texas.

00:06:58Not much to do.

00:06:59In the areas, like, out in the woods or whatever, it's like, you're probably bored looking at

00:07:05each other.

00:07:05Like, how often, like, they're probably so desensitized by the mountains and the trees

00:07:09that they're like, oh, should we just fuck each other then?

00:07:11I don't know.

00:07:11Like, what else are you going to do?

00:07:12Like, I go out there and I enjoy nature and I'm like, oh my God, a deer.

00:07:16Yeah.

00:07:16Because I live in New York and we see pigeons and run over rats and that's pretty much it.

00:07:20But if I, but if I lived out there, then I'd be like, I guess we'll just keep fucking

00:07:24each other then.

00:07:25You think that the high quality sex is due to boredom?

00:07:29Is that crazy?

00:07:31I actually probably know.

00:07:33It makes sense.

00:07:34I mean, if the states were very different, right?

00:07:37Like, Texas?

00:07:39Texas is a big state.

00:07:41It's true, but there's a lot of people in Houston and Dallas.

00:07:44That is true.

00:07:45But there's, but there's a lot of-

00:07:47What's in, I have no idea where New Hampshire even is.

00:07:49What is that?

00:07:50What is New Hampshire?

00:07:51Yes.

00:07:52It is a state.

00:07:53Yeah.

00:07:54But it is next to Vermont.

00:07:57So it's like above New York.

00:07:59Fuck.

00:07:59Okay.

00:07:59So there is literally nothing to do there.

00:08:01There is, yeah, that's like a, it's a wasteland basically.

00:08:04I'm not talking shit about, actually Vermont has really good skiing.

00:08:08They have ski towns.

00:08:09Okay.

00:08:10Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:08:10There's Killington and Stowe.

00:08:12So it's nice for that.

00:08:14But what I mean by there's nothing is like, it's not like there's like a hub, like no one's

00:08:19going on a vacation in Vermont is my point.

00:08:20I've been to Portland, Maine.

00:08:22I've been to Portland too.

00:08:23It was very nice, but there wasn't a lot going on.

00:08:26No, it's just, you know, lobsters and weed.

00:08:28They had a stuffed moose at the arrivals in the airport.

00:08:32Like a life-size moose.

00:08:34I'm into that.

00:08:35I like stuffed animals, but only if they're like to size.

00:08:39You want a taxidermy thing, but you don't want it to be shrunk down?

00:08:41No.

00:08:42Yeah, I think that's cowardly.

00:08:44Okay.

00:08:44So you don't want to replica moose?

00:08:46No, I would like a full moose to be like on display.

00:08:50Because you always like hear about moose, but like, have you seen one in like person?

00:08:55I've seen videos.

00:08:56I've only seen videos.

00:08:58I've only seen videos.

00:08:59Actually, I did see one, but it was like in the trees and I'm like, I didn't get a good

00:09:01look at it.

00:09:02I can't even remember it right now.

00:09:03We went to Bozeman, Montana and did this, the longest fucking hike ever.

00:09:08And as we came back down, we were going to camp that night.

00:09:11The last time I camped, I must have been 16 or something.

00:09:14So I'm like, I'm excited.

00:09:15Like this is cool.

00:09:16I'm going camping.

00:09:17And there's warnings everywhere for bears.

00:09:20So you're really precautioned about the bears.

00:09:23And one of the guys said, I've got this bear spray, but sort of doesn't work.

00:09:26I'm like, don't say that.

00:09:28Yeah.

00:09:28Don't tell me that the thing.

00:09:29So anyway, he's like, well, you don't really need to worry about the adult bears.

00:09:35What you need to worry about is the mums.

00:09:37Like the adult males aren't the ones that are dangerous.

00:09:39It's the mums.

00:09:40And as we're pulling in, my friend that I was with was very nervy about the bears, but

00:09:46the guys are like, look, the likelihood of us seeing a bear is really low.

00:09:49The likelihood of it being in between you and whatever is super low.

00:09:52We're all going to be around a fire in any case, the tents and all the rest of the stuff.

00:09:55As we're pulling in, look over the far side and there is a bear that's about this big,

00:10:00like baby bear.

00:10:01Yeah.

00:10:02And we're like, that's bad.

00:10:03You're not far from your mum.

00:10:04Yeah, no.

00:10:05Immediately he was like, I'm out.

00:10:06I'm not going.

00:10:07But we managed to convince him.

00:10:08But yeah, that was the fucking bears.

00:10:10And I also got roped into a beardom at one point when I was in, when I was in Washington,

00:10:17I did a van trip with my friends and we slept in a van for like a week.

00:10:22I took two showers.

00:10:23It was disgusting in there, obviously.

00:10:24But it was beautiful.

00:10:26It was one of my favorite shows I've ever been on.

00:10:28But the first hike that we did, we got up at like 3.30 in the morning and then did this

00:10:33hike and we had headlamps and they were like, oh, bring a headlamp.

00:10:36And I'm like, yeah, you know, whatever.

00:10:38And we're doing this hike and I'm like pretty excited.

00:10:41You know, it's the first day.

00:10:42So I'm like, let's go.

00:10:43And then I hear one of my friends go like, who has the bear spray?

00:10:45And I was like, hold on.

00:10:47I'm like, why do we need bear spray?

00:10:49It's like, oh, this place has like a lot of bears.

00:10:51I'm like, why are we doing this?

00:10:53We're not even like built for this.

00:10:54Like we're from New York City.

00:10:56Like, you know, I'm sure there's people who live around there that know what to do in

00:10:59that situation.

00:11:00But like, we're spraying.

00:11:02We're hoping we're banking on a spray.

00:11:04I can't.

00:11:05I can't.

00:11:06But I mean, we ended up doing it.

00:11:07Didn't see a bear.

00:11:08If I did see a bear, though, like, I don't know.

00:11:11First of all, I'm shitting my pants.

00:11:12I know they can smell that.

00:11:14So like, I'm leaving a trail.

00:11:15I don't know.

00:11:17That's how we track them.

00:11:18I'm sure they're tracking us when people are shitting their pants like me.

00:11:22They can smell that.

00:11:24You're telling me that your fear is attracting the bear.

00:11:26No, the fear is resulting in the shit.

00:11:29My fear.

00:11:29Oh, well, yes.

00:11:30I guess that my fear is that with this inevitable shit in my pants, I will be leaving breadcrumbs

00:11:36back to our car.

00:11:36I will be mauled by a bear because of how much of a pussy I've been.

00:11:40Yeah.

00:11:40Yeah.

00:11:41When it comes to, I love animals.

00:11:43But when it comes to like, I love animals when I'm prepared to see them.

00:11:48You don't want to be jump scared by them?

00:11:49No, I don't really like that.

00:11:51I don't like that shit in movies either.

00:11:52I like to be prepared for things.

00:11:54But I don't like that.

00:11:56I don't like the, you know, like if I am out in public and I saw like, even a cat would

00:12:00get me.

00:12:01If it was like running real quick.

00:12:03I don't like quick shit.

00:12:04I'm serious.

00:12:05We were in the garden after yesterday before I came for dinner with you.

00:12:08And my housemate was looking at this squirrel and he's like, dude, can you imagine if squirrels

00:12:12were any bigger than they are?

00:12:14The fucking pace, the frame rate that squirrels move at is so fast.

00:12:18You would be, if they wanted you, you would be completely dead.

00:12:20Even at the size they are, clambering all over you, you just flail forever and then be

00:12:25died.

00:12:25This is unbelievable.

00:12:26I feel like I'm speaking to my conscious because I have talked about this so many times, but

00:12:30my thing is like, fuck the size that they are.

00:12:32If they decided it's over, it is over.

00:12:36Cause what am I going to do?

00:12:37I can't fight two squirrels.

00:12:39One, I could probably like rip off me.

00:12:41Two of them though.

00:12:42I mean, they're eating my eyes out because they're so fast and they like, you see them

00:12:45get up a tree.

00:12:46Yep.

00:12:47It's at the speed of light.

00:12:48So like, this isn't happening for me.

00:12:51Like, I'm not that.

00:12:52So if, if the squirrels wanted to, they could, you know, try and fee-fi-fo-fum your way through

00:12:57getting around this fucking squirrel that's all over you.

00:12:59It's a fear of mine.

00:13:00I also don't really like birds.

00:13:02Oh, I hate bugs.

00:13:03You want to see me turn into a little bitch.

00:13:05You put a cockroach on this table right now.

00:13:07Don't like that at all.

00:13:07As a New Yorker?

00:13:08I think, yeah, I don't like it.

00:13:10It's the animal of your city.

00:13:11I know it's a state bird.

00:13:13I don't like it at all.

00:13:14I don't like things that have like, you know, like little, like little hands and antennas

00:13:20and they're like wet.

00:13:22Little hands.

00:13:23Yeah.

00:13:23Like, you know, like you see like tarantulas up close and it's like, how many eyes does

00:13:26this thing have?

00:13:27And then, and then they have, it looks like they have a couple mouths and a bunch of teeth

00:13:31and I'm like, I just.

00:13:33Not for me.

00:13:33Not for me at all.

00:13:34And they're hairy.

00:13:35I can't.

00:13:35It's too much.

00:13:36What do you think they think of you?

00:13:38That's a great question for when you interview a tarantula, I'm going to watch that fucking

00:13:42episode.

00:13:43I am going to watch that.

00:13:44Let me show you.

00:13:45Joe Santiago.

00:13:46What do you have a look at him?

00:13:49Jose Santiago.

00:13:50How do you feel about tarantulas?

00:13:54Maybe that's the guy that everybody thinks that you look like.

00:13:57Probably.

00:13:57I'm sure there's famous tarantula.

00:13:59There's got to be thousands.

00:14:00You've got this line, be realistic about where you stand, but not where you can go.

00:14:04Yeah.

00:14:04What's that mean?

00:14:06I think that that is the thing that like helps me the most.

00:14:10Like I really feel like my, if you could pick a superpower that you have, like something

00:14:16that, you know, is the reason for the way you are.

00:14:20British accent.

00:14:20Right.

00:14:21Well, yeah, honestly, honestly, yes.

00:14:24And you're in good shape.

00:14:25Those two things, I would chalk everything up to that.

00:14:27It will carry you very far.

00:14:28Yeah, yeah.

00:14:28Oh my God.

00:14:29That's why I'm, I mean, I went for a run this morning.

00:14:30That's why.

00:14:31Um, but I think that being realistic with yourself.

00:14:36Especially like where you stand at the moment is very important because a lot of people do

00:14:41this thing where they conflate manifesting.

00:14:44And I don't know this like positive affirmation thing for like, just tell yourself that you're

00:14:50better than you are, which I, I think that has a place in certain areas, but I do think

00:14:55it's important to realize where you are because it helps you to, it humbles you.

00:15:00And you say, this is where I am right now.

00:15:02And this is what I'm capable of.

00:15:04And if you know yourself, then no one can really say anything to you.

00:15:06You can't be hurt by a comment or, or anything like that.

00:15:10You are on a mission.

00:15:11I know who I am.

00:15:12And then the, the un, or what, I don't even know what the fuck the rest of it was, but

00:15:15it's like, like not being realistic about where you can go.

00:15:18I'm extremely unrealistic about that part.

00:15:21So that part, I, I really believe that I can accomplish anything.

00:15:27I don't think it's easy, but like, I'll give you an example.

00:15:29That's like insane.

00:15:30And some people are gonna be like, fuck this kid.

00:15:32But I saw a video of Ben Affleck and Matt Damon winning the, uh, Academy Award for best

00:15:41screenplay and I watched it back like 20 times.

00:15:45Not kidding.

00:15:46I'm also like that.

00:15:47I'll watch it like crazy if I'm like feeling something from it, but I'm watching that.

00:15:51And a part of me is going like, I can do that.

00:15:54And I don't like in a sane mind.

00:15:58I don't, it's obviously that's crazy to say, but I, I do believe that.

00:16:02Like, I believe that I can't do it right now.

00:16:04I don't think I'm capable or like my first shot at, I can do it.

00:16:07But I feel like I can, like I, if I wanted to, and really apply myself, I can do that.

00:16:13Obviously that counts for nothing.

00:16:14You have to put in all that work.

00:16:15But I think the fact, I think letting yourself know that it is possible and you are capable

00:16:23of actually achieving that goes a long way.

00:16:27You know, like having certain people, uh, that blow up as a musical artist that came

00:16:33from like a small town or whatever, like that is very inspiring to those people that live

00:16:37in a small town or anyone that lives in a small town.

00:16:39Like, that's a relatable thing.

00:16:40It's like, well, usually only people from LA or movie stars, but you came from this small

00:16:44town.

00:16:44So I live in a small town over here.

00:16:47So that lets me know that like, oh, it is possible to make it in some sort of way.

00:16:52Um, and that's just an example of that, where if you allow yourself to be like, I can do

00:16:58that, like if I wanted to, and I am, I become like obsessed with things, like very passionate

00:17:04about things to the point, like I'm nuts, dude.

00:17:07Like I'm fucking crazy.

00:17:08Like I, when I really, like when I was thinking about, uh, MSG and Radio City, those were two

00:17:15really big moments in my life.

00:17:16And for Radio City, I, I knew what song I wanted to, like, I wanted us to come out to

00:17:23like a year before it even happened.

00:17:25Before it actually was booked, I like knew what song I wanted it to be.

00:17:29And I wanted to know, like, I knew how we were going to promote it and all these other

00:17:33things, because I like hear a song and then it kind of motivates me a little bit.

00:17:38And I have to listen to it a bunch of times to the point where like, now I'm visualizing

00:17:42this thing.

00:17:43Like I'm doing the manifesting.

00:17:44And I, I literally was listening.

00:17:48Cause the song is Bob O'Reilly.

00:17:50Teenage Wasteland fire.

00:17:53So I, I, I had that song in mind for this.

00:17:57And then I would like, if I went for a run and I put it on, like, sometimes I would just

00:18:02cry cause I just like want it so bad, but I don't know.

00:18:06Sometimes I want that.

00:18:07And I don't even know what I want.

00:18:09Like, I'm just very intense about this is going to sound, I mean, I don't know.

00:18:14We got this.

00:18:14So like, but like energy is so like real to me.

00:18:18And if I can hear a song or I see a video or I see, um, someone talking about something

00:18:24and it resonates with me even a little bit, I have to watch it religiously.

00:18:28And I just, I just want to understand so much of like, why I feel that way.

00:18:34And it, it inspires me.

00:18:36And I really think that like, not, it goes beyond people saying like anything is possible,

00:18:42which is true, but that's like very general.

00:18:44Like I feel very capable, like I actually feel capable, um, to, to do things.

00:18:51And just because I think it, obviously that means nothing.

00:18:55Um, but I, I do, I, there's like a feeling in me, like truly, like it's like in my body

00:19:00that I really feel like if I go after some sort of project, I, I will get it done in some

00:19:09way, or I'll fail at it, which is totally fine.

00:19:12Cause it's not, that doesn't stop me.

00:19:14Like, obviously you're going to fail, failed many times, many times, but it doesn't stop

00:19:20me from wanting to get to that position.

00:19:24I will always go.

00:19:25I never get discouraged.

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00:20:22Have you always felt like that?

00:20:24Or have you trained yourself into feeling like this?

00:20:26It sounds like you've got a lot of self-belief, at least for the future.

00:20:28Yeah, I do.

00:20:30I, yes, I would say that I always kind of felt that way.

00:20:33Partially in certain ways where how I grew up, I always felt like I'll be fine.

00:20:40Even if I wasn't going to be, I was perfectly okay with not really being fine, like financially,

00:20:48like not being fine.

00:20:50And I literally just wanted to do this sort of thing.

00:20:53That's all I wanted to do was to have this job and entertain people.

00:20:56It wasn't about how much money it was literally like, I want to do it.

00:21:00And I kind of want to do it on my own terms.

00:21:02And I want to stand out and I want to be as authentic as possible.

00:21:06So that's kind of what my goal was.

00:21:09Like, that's what drives me is to, I don't want to veer too far off from the person I was

00:21:17when I first started doing all this, if that makes sense.

00:21:20Because the mindset, like I was just talking about, like that hasn't changed at all.

00:21:27The way that I sort of view it, like I think I can do it.

00:21:29So I have to do it my way sort of thing.

00:21:32And part of that is because I'm very realistic with myself, I love criticism.

00:21:40Like that resonates, especially.

00:21:42Like if people are just like hating and it doesn't really hit you at all, that whatever,

00:21:46it doesn't matter.

00:21:47But when someone criticizes you or they have advice for you and they say something and

00:21:50you're like, oh, like I love that.

00:21:52I love those moments.

00:21:53Part of the reason why me and Greg worked together is because years ago, I like wrote a

00:21:58script and I was like showing like my friends and family and shit.

00:22:00They're like, oh my God, this is so funny.

00:22:02Sent it to him.

00:22:03He sent me back like eight pages on why it sucks.

00:22:07Like, like so many things like why it sucks.

00:22:10And I was reading all of them and I'm like, oh my God, these make so much sense.

00:22:14And like, that's exciting for me because it's like now I'm making some sort of progress.

00:22:18Like there's no way I'm getting this right on the first try.

00:22:20Like I am super down to be wrong because I'm not, I'm not trying to be right about.

00:22:27I can do something like I'm trying to do something extraordinary, which is going to require some

00:22:32sort of collaboration, especially at this point, especially if you want to do something really

00:22:36extraordinary and like win some sort of award or whatever.

00:22:39Like I, my approach would be to something like that.

00:22:43Um, the Academy Award is what I'm talking about, which is not actually like a goal.

00:22:47I don't want people to feel like this is what I'm doing over here.

00:22:49But, uh, it's, it's more of like, uh, if I get the opportunity, I'm putting everything

00:22:56into this thing and I will dot every I and cross every T and I am not trying to get it greenlit.

00:23:03Like I'm trying to get it to be the greatest show anyone's ever seen for its category, you

00:23:09know, like that is kind of my approach to those things.

00:23:13And I feel very capable, especially with like that, the people that I have around me, like

00:23:17I get a lot of help and I believe in them tremendously.

00:23:20And I think that we're super lean, but I just feel very capable in that way.

00:23:26We didn't really expand the team like crazy any, for any of these big moments, I kept it

00:23:31like the people we were all doing it for the first time and we were figuring it out.

00:23:35And, you know, after, after realizing that I'm referring to touring now, but, uh, it was

00:23:42just six of us and really like four of us are kind of like, uh, making decisions and dealing

00:23:49with the companies and whatever, but we wanted to do it ourselves.

00:23:53A company had offered help to, you know, help with the tour, but we wanted to do it.

00:23:57We thought we felt that we were capable.

00:23:59We also wanted to see how involved it was and if we were just going to give money away

00:24:02to somebody or if we could handle it ourselves.

00:24:04And we did the show for two years, had a very good, like success with it.

00:24:12And now we know what's involved, but that was always going to be the approach.

00:24:16Cause it's like, we can do it.

00:24:18Like, let's just do it ourselves.

00:24:19And a lot of people, we heard from a lot of venues that a lot of people show up with

00:24:23like a big team and they have, you know, this and that granted, we don't really have like

00:24:26a super involved show to be fair.

00:24:29Um, but they were, people were always kind of like, oh, it's just you guys.

00:24:34I'm like, yeah, you turned up at MSG with five people.

00:24:36Yeah.

00:24:37And they were like, there was a stage manager that, um, like they have people there.

00:24:44Like they, but like usually, I mean, MSG is a different thing.

00:24:47They hire like some guy who's like done it and he's like for real.

00:24:52Um, but in other places, it's just someone who works at the theater.

00:24:55And sometimes you get to a theater that's like super old and, uh, you know, like in, in Tampa,

00:25:01I don't even remember the name of the venue, but we went there and the computer that they

00:25:05tried to upload our like show to basically, cause we have some assets on the screen and whatnot.

00:25:10And some other components, uh, um, the computer was like from fucking 1857.

00:25:17And the guy's like, hold on, I got a Mac book.

00:25:18He brings out something from 1995.

00:25:20I'm like, we're getting warmer, but this won't turn on.

00:25:23And we had to get our photographer to go back to the hotel room, get his laptop, set up the

00:25:28entire show.

00:25:29And then we basically ran the entire thing.

00:25:31So sometimes you run into that.

00:25:33If you don't have an entire team like that, that shows up and like plugs in, does the whole

00:25:37thing.

00:25:37Um, but we like to keep it super lean.

00:25:39I, I enjoy that.

00:25:41And I enjoy saying that all this stuff that you see and everything that we've kind of accomplished

00:25:46have come from these people.

00:25:49What's the, uh, what's the gender split of your show of your audience?

00:25:53Uh, I believe it's around 70, 30 female.

00:25:56So it skews female.

00:25:58Uh, it may be like a little lower than that, but then at the live shows, the live shows,

00:26:02it's overwhelming me overwhelmingly female.

00:26:05Yeah.

00:26:0590%, 95%.

00:26:07I mean, I don't know about 95, but we're getting there.

00:26:09Like it's, I think it's probably like realistically like 85%, like it's a lot to the point where

00:26:15people's Apple watches go off.

00:26:17Yes.

00:26:18I told you about that, but it was, it's very loud.

00:26:21Um, my first show ever, I was like super nervous and I didn't really know what to expect.

00:26:26I didn't know if we were going to do a good job.

00:26:29And I walked out on stage and the only thing I could think about was how loud it was.

00:26:32I was like, oh my God, like, I've never heard something like this before.

00:26:35I've never, I've never like been on a stage in front of that many people.

00:26:40Our first show, I think was 1700 people in New Jersey.

00:26:44And I was like, holy shit.

00:26:46New Jersey women will make a lot of noise as well.

00:26:47Yeah, they do make a lot of noise.

00:26:49Yeah.

00:26:49Oh my God.

00:26:50A lot of that.

00:26:51Yeah.

00:26:52So one of the most common areas, I think it's the most commonly cited psychological area for

00:26:59growth that women want to work on.

00:27:00And certainly at my shows, cause I do a lot of Q and A, uh, it's the most common thing

00:27:04that women talk about to me as well is imposter syndrome.

00:27:08And what you have is kind of like reverse imposter syndrome.

00:27:12I also have imposter syndrome though.

00:27:14But you have it at a level where why is everybody here for me?

00:27:19But at no point does it put a ceiling on where you think that you can go.

00:27:24So I think for a lot of people, their, um, sense of self now is I shouldn't be here.

00:27:31And that bleeds over into, and therefore I definitely can't go that much further.

00:27:38Does that make sense?

00:27:39Sure.

00:27:40And I think that at least by the sounds of things,

00:27:42you sometimes get surprised with like, what the fuck is MSG and the radio city and all

00:27:47of these people.

00:27:48And apparently it's 130 decibels.

00:27:50Yeah.

00:27:51And, uh, but that doesn't slow you down going forward.

00:27:55No, because one, now I also feel like an enormous responsibility because for a long time, it was

00:28:01just me who was making all the decisions and I was, I didn't have any employees, so I didn't

00:28:08have anyone or I did have an employee, but we were younger.

00:28:12So there wasn't a lot of stakes, but now I have employees that have children that have mortgages

00:28:16that have, you know, things to pay for.

00:28:18And like, there's a little bit more of a pressure from that, but I, I also, in those moments,

00:28:26I have imposter syndrome where I kind of feel like this is obviously very ridiculous that

00:28:31this many people are here.

00:28:32And I don't, I don't, I don't really know how it happened this because it feels very quick.

00:28:38Like, it just kind of flies by and then you're, you're there, I'm standing on stage at MSG in

00:28:42front of a sold out crowd.

00:28:43And you're kind of like, what the hell did I do to get here?

00:28:45I don't even remember.

00:28:46And that's like, that's a, that's a, you know, a weird experience, but I don't even know where

00:28:54I was going with that, to be honest, but I, it's, I, I do have imposter syndrome, but in

00:28:59those moments, a part of me is also like, I can't get scared.

00:29:03Like, I can't stop this because too many people are kind of counting on it.

00:29:08And I, and I think that I, I sort of owe it to myself in a way that I should keep pushing

00:29:14and seeing what I'm capable of, because really the only thing that I think holds a lot of

00:29:19people back is this fear of things like that, where you're like, well, this is either that's

00:29:24not for me completely, or this is good enough, or, you know, this is good enough is actually

00:29:31not what I want to say, because I think that everything that I've been doing is like good

00:29:33enough, but I just want to know that, like, I want to know what my full potential is.

00:29:38Like, I want to know what I'm capable of.

00:29:39There's still fear that lives in me that feels like you turn down certain opportunities or

00:29:46you don't do certain things because of fear.

00:29:48And you, you, especially.

00:29:51How much do you feel that?

00:29:52How much do you feel fear?

00:29:54All the time.

00:29:55I think all the time.

00:29:56I mean, there's certain parts of it that, there's certain parts of it that I'm afraid

00:30:02of, and it gets easier when you kind of do stuff.

00:30:07I was afraid to do live shows.

00:30:09I was, I was like nervous about doing it because you're so comfortable, like just on the internet.

00:30:15And it's like, you can edit it.

00:30:18It's there's no like really high stakes, but can you perform for two hours in front of people?

00:30:22Like, that's a very big jump in a different thing, especially when you're doing a podcast

00:30:28show that people have no expectations coming into the show.

00:30:31Like, what the fuck is it going to be?

00:30:33Like, are you going to get on there and sit on stage and talk to your boy?

00:30:36And that's going to be the whole show?

00:30:37Like, it can't be that.

00:30:39Um, I, it can be, some people do it, but I, I was not interested in that whatsoever.

00:30:42Yeah, I was not interested in that whatsoever.

00:30:45I held off until we had a good idea.

00:30:48And also at a point where we felt like we are hitting a stride and the show has like grown

00:30:54to the point.

00:30:54And this feels like, okay, this is a logical next step, but we're going to make it worth

00:30:58it for people.

00:30:58Because I, going back to what I was saying before, none of this is for the money.

00:31:03I really just, I'm not motivated by money at all.

00:31:06Um, so I would feel horrible if I went out there and, and didn't try.

00:31:15And if they loved it, it would make it worse.

00:31:17Cause then it would feel like, oh, I manipulated them and give, into giving my money and they're

00:31:22happy.

00:31:22Why are they happy?

00:31:23I didn't even try.

00:31:23I mailed it in.

00:31:24Yeah.

00:31:24I mailed it in.

00:31:25And, and they're happy about that.

00:31:26Like they shouldn't be happy about that.

00:31:27Like they should hold me to a higher standard, you know?

00:31:30And I think that's like manipulation and people do that to their audience.

00:31:33There's a line, the guy who you didn't know, Alex, there.

00:31:37No, I know Alex.

00:31:37I just, I just was shocked by the fact that you guys were up there.

00:31:40Yeah.

00:31:41It's very regal.

00:31:42Uh, wow.

00:31:43Um, he's got, he's got a line where she says, um, control freak is a word that people with

00:31:48low standards use to describe people with high standards.

00:31:52Control freak.

00:31:53Is a term that people with low standards use to describe people with high standards.

00:31:58And what you've said is.

00:32:00Um, dotting every I, crossing every T, spending a lot of time obsessing over.

00:32:04It sounds like you're quite obsessive.

00:32:05Yeah.

00:32:05To me.

00:32:06Like, I mean, you, by definition, I watch a video and there's a section of a video that

00:32:10I can't stop thinking about because it makes, gives me goosebumps or it makes me cry.

00:32:14Yeah.

00:32:14That you're obsessing over this emotion, this energy, you're obsessing over this vibe.

00:32:19You're obsessing over this song for your show that hasn't even yet been booked.

00:32:23Right.

00:32:24Um, I've got this idea that I think obsession's really misunderstood by people that we're all

00:32:29obsessed with discipline and motivation.

00:32:31The motivation is cool.

00:32:32Cause it's kind of like relatively free discipline.

00:32:35Like it makes you want to do the thing and discipline is you making yourself do the thing.

00:32:40Yeah.

00:32:40Like that's Goggins and Jocko and getting up at 4 30 AM and spitting sawdust and willpower

00:32:46and stuff like that.

00:32:46Yeah.

00:32:47But then there is this next level, which is obsession and obsession is I can't not do the

00:32:53thing.

00:32:53Like I'm unable to stop myself from doing it.

00:32:57That has been something that is very present in my life for the longest time.

00:32:59I dropped out of college because of that feeling and I, when I was, I went to a, I don't even

00:33:05know why I did this, but I was in high school.

00:33:07Uh, I went to a Catholic high school.

00:33:09I was a good student, you know, like near nineties, you know, something like that, whatever

00:33:13letter that is.

00:33:15But, uh, when it came time to apply for colleges, I just never did it.

00:33:20Like you're supposed to do that in like November or something.

00:33:21And I just never did it because, and I don't, I couldn't even tell you why.

00:33:24I don't even know what my rationale was at the time.

00:33:26But then I, I lied to my parents and I said, yeah, I applied here and there and I'm just

00:33:32waiting and like, just to put off hearing about it.

00:33:35Um, and then I eventually just went to, I told my parents, I didn't get into any schools.

00:33:41And then I went, which is like insane if that actually happened, which whatever, but I went

00:33:47to a community college.

00:33:48I went to a school called Queensborough community college and I did a semester there and it was

00:33:53very hard for me because I, I just felt so strongly that it wasn't for me.

00:34:01And it bothered me that that's like a thing that a lot of people say.

00:34:04And I'm like, am I just one of those people?

00:34:05That's like, oh, you know, school's just not for me.

00:34:07And it's kind of like, um, cause I didn't think I was better than it.

00:34:11Like, I, I still don't think that.

00:34:12And I think that it has its place for sure.

00:34:15Um, but there was something in me that was like a feeling of like, I can't go back.

00:34:21Like, like I can't like, and I don't have a plan at that time.

00:34:24I was making some YouTube videos, but they were amounting to nothing really.

00:34:28I enjoy doing it, but it wasn't like I thought this is what I'm going to do.

00:34:32This was also in 2011 when there wasn't influencers, there wasn't even Instagram.

00:34:38There was, there was nothing.

00:34:39So the, the idea that you can make a career off of this, like didn't really exist.

00:34:42So there wasn't like this guiding light of like, I'm going to do this.

00:34:46I was doing YouTube videos and I wasn't getting paid any money to do them, but I did feel like

00:34:51maybe if I grew this to a certain point, I could leverage the audience into like an audition

00:34:56for something.

00:34:57I don't know.

00:34:57Like I wasn't really thinking, but I didn't necessarily want to be an actor.

00:35:01I just liked doing that at the time, but something was pushing me away.

00:35:08And I, I literally would drive to the school and sit in the car, very dramatic.

00:35:15And I would just stare at the school and I'm like, I can't, I literally just can't get myself

00:35:19to go.

00:35:20And going back to why I'm an insane person.

00:35:23There was one time where I literally had like a notebook and I just wrote out like a, an interview

00:35:30that like Barbara Walters was doing with me, where she was like walking me around.

00:35:33She's like, so this is your college.

00:35:34Like, and I was like thinking like that, like, I just want something so bad.

00:35:38I know I can't get it in there.

00:35:39You didn't even know what it was.

00:35:40No.

00:35:41Which is stupid.

00:35:42That's very, that's really interesting, right?

00:35:43Because you've got, you had ambition without direction.

00:35:49Zero.

00:35:50I had a lot of passion and ambition and it was like putting it in a box.

00:35:54But you didn't even know what your passion was for.

00:35:55No.

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00:36:49So that's really, really interesting because I think a lot of the time people assume that

00:36:54in order to move, you need to have a plan, you need to know where you're going, and that's

00:36:58kind of classic.

00:36:59My background on the podcast for the first couple of years was kind of productivity, bro.

00:37:04It was deep work and focus timers and learning how to organize your desk and using notes apps

00:37:11and stuff and almost everything didn't work, except for just building up the muscle of trying

00:37:17to not get distracted and probably not using your phone as much as you want to, right?

00:37:21Like that's kind of it.

00:37:23Anyway, a lot of the standard advice is set your 25-year goal and then break it down into

00:37:30five-year periods and then you do it in 18-month blocks and it's 90-day sprints and every day,

00:37:36every day, build this all together, but it kind of bypasses the fact that if you're somebody

00:37:42that's got a passion, that's got passion, all you need to do is find something to plug that

00:37:48into.

00:37:49And I wonder how many people, because they have a fear of not knowing what it is that

00:37:58they want to do, they back themselves into something that feels safe because they're scared of having

00:38:06this drive, but not having the direction, like ambition without direction, which fucking,

00:38:10like that's a lovely little framing.

00:38:13They don't know where to put it, so they're like, well, I'll do this, I'll go to the college,

00:38:17I'll get the job.

00:38:17And then before they know it, they've kind of tumbled backwards.

00:38:21There's an idea called sliding versus deciding.

00:38:23They've slid into a set of train tracks that they're now on where they're not able to use

00:38:29their passion.

00:38:30They're not that passionate about it, but it feels really safe.

00:38:32I'm super, super safe in this situation.

00:38:35But all of that passion is kind of still burning, doesn't really have anywhere to go.

00:38:39And after a while, I get the sense that if you don't keep giving it at least the fuel of

00:38:44the potential for dream, that it sort of burns out.

00:38:49I think that there are people that probably have more passion than others, because I do think

00:38:53there are people that are perfectly content with going to college, getting a job, and that's

00:38:58their life.

00:38:59And I think that's amazing.

00:39:00Like, I think that as long as you feel fulfilled, like, you should do that.

00:39:03They are very lucky.

00:39:04Yeah.

00:39:05They're very lucky.

00:39:06Because the alternative is that you need to contort yourself into this weird fucking shape.

00:39:11Yeah.

00:39:11Run all over the planet trying to work out who you are.

00:39:14A part of me was afraid because I did have all that passion, and I didn't know where to put

00:39:22it.

00:39:23I think that if you're lucky enough to find something that really lights a fire in you,

00:39:29like something that you actually enjoy, like, this is the thing.

00:39:32For me, it's like, you need to do it.

00:39:36Like, I need to do that.

00:39:37You can't not do it.

00:39:38I can't.

00:39:39Like, I can't.

00:39:39I have to.

00:39:40And that's why, like, dropping out of college felt like that.

00:39:42Like, that was the first time that I felt something like, it had a physical reaction

00:39:47to me, where it was like, dude, don't do that.

00:39:50And there was no fucking plan.

00:39:51And mind you, I was always like a good student growing up, and I played sports and stuff,

00:39:56and I felt like there was a lot of, there was high expectations for me.

00:40:01And then I was not fulfilling that at all.

00:40:02And then I'm going to go, well, I'm also dropping out of college, you know?

00:40:06And that was-

00:40:07It's a lot of L's in a short space of time.

00:40:09Oh, my God, dude.

00:40:10It is a lot of L's.

00:40:11And there was only one time where I was like, man, I'm fucking this up bad.

00:40:16Like, maybe I'm just, like, full of shit.

00:40:18Like, you think, do you have-

00:40:19Just because I have all this passion-

00:40:21Oh, my ambition.

00:40:22Exactly.

00:40:22It's like, bro, this counts for nothing.

00:40:23No one cares that you're passionate.

00:40:25Like, and you're waiting for what?

00:40:26Like, what are you waiting for?

00:40:28Like, what are you going to do?

00:40:29And then there was a time where I did have that realization of-

00:40:34Because when I was younger, I was a little more, like, arrogant about it in my head.

00:40:38Where I was like, I'm going to find something.

00:40:41Like, I was, like, kind of sure, which, not sure.

00:40:45But there was a moment where, like, all my friends are going to college.

00:40:48And some of them are away.

00:40:49Some of them are in the neighborhood.

00:40:50Some of them have jobs and whatever.

00:40:51And I'm literally doing nothing now because I dropped out of college.

00:40:54I don't even have a job at this point.

00:40:55How did that feel?

00:40:56Like, a fucking loser, dude.

00:40:59Like, I just, I literally felt like that was the first time that I ever told myself, like, yo, you're full of shit, dude.

00:41:05Like, you have all this passion and, you know, I'm sitting in a car riding a fucking-

00:41:13Nice Barbara Walters interview, dude.

00:41:15Yeah, like, what am I talking about?

00:41:16I'm still at home with your mom and dad.

00:41:17Yeah, like, she'll be dead by the time this happens anyway.

00:41:20But, like, I was like, I was, you're sitting there writing that.

00:41:23And then a part of me is, like, I'm upset with myself because I'm like, you told yourself the lie and you believed it.

00:41:28And I do believe it is sort of like a lie because that could get you in trouble.

00:41:33And it would have got me in trouble, too.

00:41:35If I followed that passion, because no matter what, I was following that.

00:41:39I followed the excitement as far as, like, professionally.

00:41:43And I think that's important.

00:41:45Especially even now, if you ask me, like, what's your five-year plan?

00:41:47I don't have one.

00:41:48I'm waiting for the excitement to appear.

00:41:50I'm at the point now where it's a little easier to do that because I can kind of sit back a little bit and sort of rest on my laurels and, you know, kind of make decisions.

00:41:58And I could kind of float here.

00:41:59But if something pops up and that excites me, that's what I'm doing.

00:42:04Like, and I have no idea.

00:42:05It could look totally different soon.

00:42:06You know what it sounds like?

00:42:07It sounds like one of the things that you've really steered away from, at least when making your life decisions, is obligation.

00:42:13I don't feel...

00:42:14Not like you're not...

00:42:15Tandu, you sound like my dad.

00:42:17Like, you're not obliged to do something just because people expected you to, just because you were doing it previously, just because your parents might have wanted you to do it.

00:42:28Like, I understand the obligation comes with a lot of baggage.

00:42:31Fucking childhood trauma coming through your eyes.

00:42:33No, no, no.

00:42:34But I do know what you mean.

00:42:35I think that's true.

00:42:36Like, a lot of people feel obligated to go and do something.

00:42:39They even feel obligated to keep moving, right?

00:42:43There's this sense of, oh, fuck, like, I can't just sit and wait, or I can't just sit and think.

00:42:48And in some ways, that's true, right?

00:42:50You shouldn't just be wish it, want it, do it, dream it, believe it, and not go and work for it in your way through your life.

00:42:58Like, that's going to result in you being on the couch until you get kicked out of your apartment.

00:43:04I also, like, I have a deep desire to earn it.

00:43:09Like, I want to earn it.

00:43:10And I want people to look at me and feel like, he earned it.

00:43:14You know, I don't want people to feel like there was a shortcut or anything like that.

00:43:17I don't think that anyone can look at the backlog of stuff that you've done and say that you haven't earned it.

00:43:22I'd like to think that the same thing is true for me as well.

00:43:24Yeah, but I feel that about things that haven't happened yet either.

00:43:30Like, any sort of thing that pops up that I will do.

00:43:34Like, I can tell you right now, I don't know the specifics, but my life moving forward will look very random.

00:43:41Like, there probably will be other projects that are, like, not podcasting, not a live show, whatever, that I'm like, I'm going to put my all into that or whatever.

00:43:47Like, I go at the excitement, and I want to be good at those things.

00:43:52Like, I want to.

00:43:52That's why I'm so willing to take criticism, because I want to be good.

00:43:57Like, I want to be good.

00:43:58I want people to know that I'm trying really hard to do this thing if it excites me.

00:44:04What do you think about the sort of current trend of people trying to be nonchalant?

00:44:09That was such a British pronunciation.

00:44:12Nonchalant.

00:44:12I like that better, to be honest.

00:44:15Nonchalant.

00:44:16Nonchalant.

00:44:17Uh, in what way do you mean?

00:44:20Well, you're talking about, I want people to see me trying really hard.

00:44:23Yeah.

00:44:24Trying hard, trying hard's kind of lame.

00:44:26To a certain category of people, especially people on the internet, which is why you exist.

00:44:30Everybody, like, thinks it's lame, yeah.

00:44:32So, there's, there's a world at the moment that only ever talks in irony.

00:44:38Like, they only ever make ironic sentences, ironic statements.

00:44:42Nobody stands for something legitimately.

00:44:44They only ever stand against things or kind of mock stuff or suggest, it's kind of like the passive-aggressive pushing of your own things.

00:44:51Well, you know, like, this thing's like, all right, I guess.

00:44:54Right.

00:44:54As opposed to, I am giving this my absolute fucking everything.

00:44:58In the UK, for instance, we have tall poppy syndrome, people that try really hard, called kinos, too keen.

00:45:05You're too keen for this thing.

00:45:06Yeah.

00:45:06You're too excitable.

00:45:07You'd get called fucking very American if you're that, dude.

00:45:10Like, that, really.

00:45:11Like, it's, enthusiasm's locked down on, to a degree, especially if you come from a working-class background, which is as scum class as I can be.

00:45:20Like, you are kind of encouraged to not get too big for your boots.

00:45:29I must have heard that thousands of times.

00:45:32Don't get too big for your boots.

00:45:33Yeah.

00:45:33Don't have dreams that are too big.

00:45:35The thing with me is, like, I realize that, but if you're, people who are acting nonchalant about, especially about things that they are actually passionate about, it's just insecurity, like, manifesting in that way, where it's like, I need to appear, like, I'm not really trying, but I am trying or whatever.

00:45:50Like, I'm not insecure about those things, so I'm like, don't worry, I got them.

00:45:58But I'm not insecure about those things, so I'm willing to try really hard at them and fail and fall on my face or whatever.

00:46:04And it kind of excites me, too, that there's a lot of people that aren't willing to do that, because it's like, then it feels like I have a leg up on them, because I'm willing to hit the ground super hard.

00:46:15Because when I hit the ground, like, then I know, like, you slammed a door in my face, so I know, like, okay, I got these to choose from now.

00:46:21Like, at least I have a decision.

00:46:22Like, you made a final decision.

00:46:24Like, that failed.

00:46:25Then I can move on.

00:46:27I'm not nonchalant about it, because I'm not even doing it for the perception.

00:46:31I'm doing it for me.

00:46:32And when I say that I want to earn it, it's not necessarily for outside validation.

00:46:36Like, I want to know when I go to sleep at night.

00:46:39Like, you worked hard and you got that thing.

00:46:41That feels really good.

00:46:42Like, that's an amazing feeling to know that I put my all into this thing.

00:46:48It started as an idea.

00:46:49I said it out loud.

00:46:50I worked hard to do it.

00:46:51And then it happened.

00:46:52That's an amazing feeling.

00:46:54There's a quote from Mark Manson.

00:46:56He says, do hard shit, not because it's fun, but because the win actually means something.

00:47:01You bled for it.

00:47:02You broke for it.

00:47:03You earned it.

00:47:04Easy wins are forgettable.

00:47:05Hard ones change you.

00:47:07That's the point.

00:47:08Exactly.

00:47:09What is better than that?

00:47:10There is nothing better than that.

00:47:12This is one of the things I think about the world of AI and how many people are maybe relying on assistance for their job or for their writing or their creative pursuits.

00:47:22And what it's doing is it's actually robbing you of the thing that you came here to get.

00:47:27Yes.

00:47:28The thing that you came here to get is the sensation of, I did hard shit.

00:47:32And I got good.

00:47:33I worked hard for this.

00:47:34I got good at it, too.

00:47:34And I got good one rep at a time.

00:47:36And yeah, that to me is the biggest payoff.

00:47:39When I could watch something like an old video or I can watch something from our first shows or just know whatever, I'm just like, I'm better than that now, which is good.

00:47:49Has anyone ever put together one of those, the timeline of Josh Santigo fucking videos of, I'm going to make it worse each time?

00:47:59Piece of shit.

00:48:00Let me try this bullshit.

00:48:01You can't shit talk.

00:48:04The Neutronic.

00:48:06Like purposely misquoting everything.

00:48:09Someone did it.

00:48:10That's good, by the way.

00:48:11Sorry.

00:48:12Thank you.

00:48:12Good.

00:48:12Get it in.

00:48:15Someone did a video a little while, like last week or something.

00:48:19It's really fucking good.

00:48:19And I watched it and they went back and analyzed the first episodes I'd ever done on the podcast.

00:48:27And they said this line and they were like, you might not think that this guy would go on to become anything in regards to a successful podcaster.

00:48:34And I was like, it's true, but it was 1,100 episodes ago in 2018 in the Northeast of the UK in my old office in Newcastle.

00:48:47You know, it's funny you actually bring that up because this morning I got a random DM from a person and they did exactly, this is fucking weird, by the way, because now you know what I'm saying.

00:49:00Someone, this has never happened to me ever.

00:49:02I feel like I'm always the mentalist right now.

00:49:04You're like, no, actually.

00:49:05But this, that exact thing happened to me for the first time ever.

00:49:08Someone sent me a screenshot of, it was one, it wasn't the first episode, but it was one of the first ones.

00:49:14And I titled it, who the fuck is this guy?

00:49:15And I talked about myself and like what the podcast is going to be and like things that I believe in or whatever.

00:49:21And the message that they left me was like, I just want to say that I've been a fan of yours for a really long time and I just listened to this and it's really cool to see that, you know, you've gone on to be successful and have some fame and this and that.

00:49:36But like, this sounds like you, like you're still like the same person there.

00:49:42And that is like the biggest compliment that I could get because that's the whole point.

00:49:47Like, that's, that's what I want.

00:49:48That's like what I believed in.

00:49:50I believed that if I was authentic enough, then I could stand out.

00:49:52And I had the luxury of starting when I did, because there wasn't a lot of people doing it.

00:49:58Now everyone's doing it, but it's hard to be authentic because you're constantly sort of inspired by other things.

00:50:06That are happening on the internet, if that makes sense.

00:50:09I had the idea that if I could be authentic enough, it would work out.

00:50:15What's that mean?

00:50:16If I could be authentic enough, most people would say, if I could come up with a novel enough idea, if I could be creative enough, if I could work hard enough, if I could find the right niche.

00:50:28You're saying the key competitive advantage, the key sort of fuel that you were optimizing for was authenticity.

00:50:38Yeah.

00:50:38Why?

00:50:39Well, for, well, for me at the time, like it was, I was making YouTube videos and a lot of people were kind of doing the same thing.

00:50:47So that felt like the only way that I can stand out is if I do things sort of my way and I put my like kind of flare on it or whatever.

00:50:56I didn't want to, and the things that other people were doing felt lazy to me.

00:51:00So I was like, I'm not going to do that.

00:51:02I'll do some other stuff.

00:51:03I'll, you know, I'll experimental.

00:51:04I mean, by the way, whatever I tried to do sucked besides the point.

00:51:10But I, my thought was like, if I can stay authentic to my voice, then I'll stand out because there's only one of me and there's only one of you.

00:51:19And I think that's true for anybody like that ultimately is the goal there.

00:51:23When you see something new, it's exciting, you know, like when a new thing drops, people want it.

00:51:28It's a brand new thing.

00:51:28We haven't seen it before.

00:51:29So if you are authentic and you sort of are placed on a platform or in a, you know, a medium like this or something, and you're as authentic as you can be, you're going to stand out.

00:51:41Because guess what?

00:51:41There's a lot of other people that are just trying to be like the other ones who are already successful.

00:51:45That is so fucking good.

00:51:47That's really, really good.

00:51:48No one, no one can beat you at being you.

00:51:52No.

00:51:52Right.

00:51:53But the problem is.

00:51:53It's the easiest job.

00:51:55To just be you.

00:51:55That's it.

00:51:56No one can beat you at being you, but a lot of people are trying to be someone else.

00:52:01Yes.

00:52:01And, and maybe that is because of some sort of insecurity and there's other stuff to impact there.

00:52:06But like, if you can get to a place where you're okay with yourself and you know yourself and you can apply that into, I mean, for me, I'm specifically talking about like content creation and, you know, that sort of thing.

00:52:17But if you can do that, I think that that pays dividends in my field, like what I do.

00:52:26Like, I think that makes you stand apart from everyone else.

00:52:28Because if you are trying to dress and sound and make videos that look like, like if you're trying to make the same videos as Mr. Beast, like what do you, what do you think that you're just going to be Mr. Beast?

00:52:39Like it already exists and he's the guy.

00:52:41And he has a specific formula.

00:52:44I think that he also says a lot of like smart things about like how to create viral moments.

00:52:48And he actually gives really good advice in those ways.

00:52:50But thinking that you're going to make it because you're just going to copy him, I think is, it will hurt you ultimately.

00:52:56You know what the interesting thing with that is?

00:52:58I've met Jimmy once for two minutes, so I don't really know him.

00:53:02Let's say that Mr. Beast isn't being Mr. Beast.

00:53:05Let's say that he's performing in some way.

00:53:08His insecurity is driving him.

00:53:09Let's just say that that's the case.

00:53:12Regardless of whether he's being authentic or not, you trying to be him still won't work.

00:53:18Which is the interesting thing, right?

00:53:20Even if you try to model someone who's being authentic, which not many people are by definition, that still won't work because it's still inauthentic to you.

00:53:29Now, there's things that you can learn.

00:53:31It's not as if you learned how to video a podcast or put together a live show without taking inspiration.

00:53:37You said that you watched Ben Affleck and Matt Damon get this thing, and they've got ways of speaking and ways of working, and they've got a philosophy behind things.

00:53:44Oh, I love what they did with Good Will Hunting, and I love the way that they did this thing, but I don't really like that so much.

00:53:48And then you take it, and it becomes a part of you as opposed to you trying to be it.

00:53:53But, yeah, just the authenticity as the biggest competitive advantage you have, I think is a really interesting idea.

00:54:00I really do think that's true.

00:54:01And I also, I'm not trying to, like...

00:54:07I'm not even trying to be, like, the best.

00:54:13I'm just trying to, like, be, like, me with learning more.

00:54:17Like, with taking something from...

00:54:19Like, anytime we've had conversations and, you know, we get into these types of discussions, like, I can take some stuff from there.

00:54:25So I can take things from you and be like, well, I'm taking that, and I'm keeping it.

00:54:28Like, and I'm...

00:54:29But in order to do that, I think that you have to be at a certain place with yourself where you're willing to tell yourself that you're wrong.

00:54:37You could think something so much, and then you have an argument with someone, and it's very hard to be like, oh, fuck, I'm wrong.

00:54:42That person's right.

00:54:44And completely change your point of view.

00:54:46Like, I like to think sometimes I can do that, and that helps tremendously.

00:54:53Like, I really think that everyone has something to offer.

00:54:56Like, everybody has something that will help you, whether it be...

00:54:59And it could come in the form of, like, horrible advice.

00:55:02And then, like, that's also helpful.

00:55:03Well, I don't want to do that.

00:55:04Exactly.

00:55:05But you can learn from everyone.

00:55:06But making it...

00:55:07I think it's a mistake to only look at people that are, like, your heroes as, like, the people you need to follow.

00:55:16There's a lot of people around you that you can get things from that are going to help you.

00:55:20People who don't know anything about your job or anything.

00:55:23Like, my mom will say something that I'm like, oh, okay.

00:55:27And it doesn't...

00:55:28It's not always applied to the job, but it's also, like, my life.

00:55:30My actual personality and the way that I approach life, the only way to grow is to constantly admit when you're wrong.

00:55:40In my opinion, that feels like...

00:55:43I try to take responsibility for everything that goes wrong in my life.

00:55:47I truly try to do that.

00:55:48Because that's what I can control.

00:55:50I can't really control how other people are going to react or what's going to happen or whatever.

00:55:55But when something bad happens to you, to me, I think that there's an opportunity there when something bad happens to you.

00:56:04Where I can learn from this or I can take something from it.

00:56:07Or I could just put up a wall and be like, wow, that person's fucked up.

00:56:10But, like, what is your involvement in that?

00:56:12You know?

00:56:12Like, something...

00:56:13An easy example is if you're in a relationship and you get cheated on, it's like, well, what the fuck?

00:56:20Like, she's a whore.

00:56:21She's whatever.

00:56:22But, like, what is your involvement, actually?

00:56:24And I'm not saying that let's absolve her.

00:56:26You know?

00:56:26Shouldn't have fucked Steve, for sure.

00:56:28But, like, what could you get from that situation?

00:56:30Are you capable of getting to the point of, like, even though that I was the safest option and I was taking care of her and I was nice to her, I never cheated on her, I never scream at her, I clean the house and I do whatever.

00:56:41Maybe you're boring, though.

00:56:43And that's fine.

00:56:45Or maybe you picked wrong.

00:56:46Or that, too.

00:56:47Maybe you weren't discerning in who you chose.

00:56:48Sure.

00:56:49But, like, it's on you in some capacity.

00:56:52Because even if you are, let's say, like, a boring guy or it's, like, super vanilla and it feels like every day is predictable and whatever and she got bored.

00:57:02It's okay to admit that, like, okay, that's something that happened to me.

00:57:06It doesn't mean that you have to change because if you don't want to, you don't have to.

00:57:08But at least know your involvement while still, you can still go, like, fuck you.

00:57:15But then you have to move on with your life.

00:57:17I'm going to learn from it as well.

00:57:18It already happened.

00:57:19Like, there's no reason to not think about it and get something from it.

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00:58:21You know, one of the reasons I think that people get angry and defensive in situations like that, it's not just that they've been wronged, or this situation was hard, and there's all of these emotions going around as well.

00:58:36It's that they know if they did a little bit of self, or a lot of self-reflection, they made a mistake too.

00:58:45And just blaming the other person and doing the fuck you thing allows you to hide.

00:58:52It gives you distance from where you could have been responsible.

00:58:56Yeah.

00:58:56And I think that's the reason people would rather get angry at someone else than get angry at themselves.

00:59:02And a lot of the time, we have betrayed ourselves in situations.

00:59:05You have.

00:59:05It's like, you know, maybe I should have fucking paid a little bit more attention.

00:59:10Maybe I should have seen the red flags earlier.

00:59:12Maybe I should have heeded the advice from my business partner with that deal, or whatever it might be.

00:59:17That doesn't mean that you're a bad person.

00:59:19Not at all.

00:59:19It doesn't mean that you're less than, or irredeemable, or that things are broken.

00:59:25But it does mean that you've got something to learn.

00:59:27And kind of like, if you're robbing yourself of the opportunity to learn that thing,

00:59:33it's already shit.

00:59:36You might as well try and get something good out of it.

00:59:38That's why, like, everyone looks back at them like, well, I don't know about everyone.

00:59:41I don't know how you did in school.

00:59:42But, like, a lot of people that I know have, like, looked back in, like, high school or whatever and be like, bro, I wish I, like, tried harder.

00:59:49Because then I could, you know, blah, blah, blah.

00:59:50It's sort of like one of those things where it's like, you're already presented the situation.

00:59:55The bad thing already happened.

00:59:56What can you get from it?

00:59:58Because you could walk away with something that could help you.

01:00:02And even if you've done the work and there's a realization of, like, you know what, I'm just not responsible, that's okay, too.

01:00:08That's also a takeaway.

01:00:09Yeah.

01:00:09Which is a lesson for you to take.

01:00:10Exactly.

01:00:10But if you don't do the self-assessment.

01:00:12You know the word that's coming to mind as you say it?

01:00:14Alchemy.

01:00:15Like, turning something that's kind of useless and shitty into something that's really valuable.

01:00:19Yeah.

01:00:20And sometimes what you have in the beginning versus what you get out is, like, way smaller, but this was already shitty.

01:00:26Yeah.

01:00:27So you might as well try and work a little bit of alchemy on this thing to convert it into something that's a little bit more beautiful.

01:00:33Yeah.

01:00:33I mean, I feel that way about everything.

01:00:35I mean, every single time, like, you know, me and Greg work creatively on a lot of different projects.

01:00:41And I think that we're very capable people.

01:00:45I mean, I just talked all that shit and I could do anything.

01:00:47But I, we've, we've run into massive roadblocks where people are like, no, but that's good.

01:00:54Cause it's like, and it's funny.

01:00:55Cause it's like, we were really confident about that.

01:00:57And then we got our ass whooped.

01:00:59But that's, that's where I like to be because, you know, this sounds so corny and it's like overset in so many ways, but it's, it's just very true that like when you do fail and when you get your ass whooped, there's, it's, it's good because you just closed a possible door.

01:01:17And now you have less doors to choose from.

01:01:19Like there's more of a chance of it happening now.

01:01:22Cause you just learned something.

01:01:23Someone slammed the door in your face, turn around.

01:01:25There's other ones, you know, like, and you can learn from that.

01:01:28And, and most of the time, especially with creative projects, you will get advice on why it did not work or why it's not good.

01:01:34And you try to find a reason like, okay, I'm okay with it being wrong.

01:01:38I don't need to defend this thing.

01:01:40And I don't need to be like a hundred percent right.

01:01:41Like, no, fuck you.

01:01:42This is a good script or whatever.

01:01:44Like find out why it's bad.

01:01:46Find out why it's bad.

01:01:47And then like, if you really care about that thing, you will find those answers.

01:01:53Or else you're just going to keep making the same mistake over and over.

01:01:56Or you won't make another thing ever again.

01:01:57And you'll keep holding it and being like, no, I swear to God, this thing's going to get greenlit.

01:02:00And you're like, dude.

01:02:01Oh, it's the guy, if coach had only put me in, then I would have got my NFL contract.

01:02:05If I didn't blow out of my knee, if I didn't blow out my knee.

01:02:10If you keep running around Austin Lake, you'll be fine.

01:02:13Dude.

01:02:13You mentioned your mom a bunch.

01:02:15Yeah.

01:02:15You're still super close with your mom, right?

01:02:17Mm-hmm.

01:02:18Millennials and Gen Z are basically cutting off their boomer parents at record rates and calling it healing, you know?

01:02:27Yeah.

01:02:28What do you think about that?

01:02:29Like, family's never felt more optional.

01:02:31And I think that's worth interrogating.

01:02:34That's crazy.

01:02:36You know, I don't know if I have a unique or niche.

01:02:45Abnormally good relationship.

01:02:47Yeah.

01:02:48So, like, I think I'm probably in the minority, but I'm very close with my family.

01:02:54And, you know, like, there's just, like, conversations.

01:02:58Like, my financial advisor has, like, said stuff, like, sometimes being like, oh, just, you know, a lot of people, like, when you're doing the will or you're doing whatever, like, you should be careful because a lot of people, like, my family has never asked me for anything.

01:03:10Like, they're only supportive people, especially my mother has never asked me for anything.

01:03:14No one has ever asked me for anything.

01:03:16Like, even my friends, like, they're just supportive.

01:03:20And they're not supportive in the way that they're going to show up with their face painted and shit.

01:03:24But they'll be supportive.

01:03:27You know, I don't know what I'm doing that would call for that anyway, to be fair.

01:03:30But that would be nice for them to show up while I'm recording a podcast and just stand in the corner.

01:03:34But, yeah, my family, I'm very close to them.

01:03:38I can't imagine that.

01:03:39When I see things, like, online or you see it, like, in a movie sometimes or you kind of hear it that, like, someone has a brother that they don't talk to.

01:03:48I'm like, that's outrageous.

01:03:50Like, I would never let that fly.

01:03:52Like, I would fly across the world and kick my sister's door in and be like, you're going to fucking sit here and talk to me and we're going to figure this thing out.

01:04:00You know, like, that's how we deal with issues.

01:04:03Like, there's issues.

01:04:05Home invasion.

01:04:05Home invasion.

01:04:07Yeah.

01:04:07Kidnapping.

01:04:08Whatever I have to do, really.

01:04:09I can do anything.

01:04:10I kidnap.

01:04:11But I, yeah, like, that's how we kind of deal with problems.

01:04:15When there's something going on or whatever, like, no one talks shit behind people's backs in my family.

01:04:19It's like, you're going to hear it because it's going to come out right now.

01:04:21And then it usually just results in, like, a very easy thing that you can kind of get over.

01:04:27There's rarely a long-lasting, under-the-table grudge or anything like that.

01:04:35Because someone would just call it out.

01:04:36It's like, what, are you fucking still mad?

01:04:38Like, it'll just, you know, like, it's just kind of like that.

01:04:40We were all just, like, very close.

01:04:42That is the most queen's approach to something.

01:04:44What, are you fucking still mad?

01:04:46The fuck?

01:04:49But my mom, like, my mom is great.

01:04:53Both my parents are great.

01:04:54My father lives in North Carolina now.

01:04:57And my mom is in New York.

01:05:00So there was an age where I think, you know, I don't want to speak for parents because I don't have children.

01:05:08But I think that there's probably, in my life, it was important that my mom is my mom.

01:05:17She's always my mom.

01:05:17And we can't be friends.

01:05:19But there was a shift in, she stopped trying to be, like, this mother that's going to make decisions for me.

01:05:28You know, like, what age did that happen?

01:05:32I don't even, I can't really pinpoint it.

01:05:35I would say it's probably younger than me.

01:05:36When did you notice it?

01:05:37Oh, I didn't notice it until, like, maybe five, six years ago.

01:05:42That was something that, like, meant a lot to me.

01:05:44You've just been allowed to freewheel at some point in the past and I didn't notice it.

01:05:48Yeah, like, just giving me the space to make mistakes and probably do things that she wouldn't do.

01:05:52And, like, she knows I'm about to do them and just kind of, like, all right, you know, like, and there's a trust in that.

01:05:57She doesn't look at me with, like, all right, good luck, idiot.

01:06:00Like, it's kind of, like, there's a trust that I'm going to let you be creative.

01:06:05Like, you have to let your children kind of, like, be who they are.

01:06:08Like, you can't make the same kid over and over again where it's, like, this is how you raise a child.

01:06:13They do this.

01:06:14You have to do that.

01:06:14This one has to do that, too.

01:06:15And whatever, like, children are very different.

01:06:17Obviously, and I think that if people, you know, maybe this one's really creative, this one's really into whatever, and this one's really into that.

01:06:24And you kind of have to notice those things and let them do that.

01:06:27And I really believe that my mother specifically, because in the years where I started to realize what was going on, we kind of had that relationship where it felt like her guard came down a little bit as a mother.

01:06:40And she, like, let me into her life a little more.

01:06:43So I was, like, able to let her into it.

01:06:45And then it felt more friendly.

01:06:46But she always says, she's like, we can't be friends, though.

01:06:48She always says that.

01:06:49Interesting.

01:06:50Yeah.

01:06:50Yeah.

01:06:51I suppose that's so, I'm thinking about what that moment must be like for parents.

01:06:57Tough.

01:06:57You know, because you've raised this kid.

01:06:59For me, I'm an only child, right?

01:07:02Yeah.

01:07:02So it's even more fucking pressure, even more vigilance, even more everything.

01:07:08The entire genetic lineage rests on the fucking shoulders.

01:07:10This one guy who's still childless.

01:07:15They let you out into the world and they've spent all of this time keeping you alive and raising you and wiping your ass and then still wiping your ass when you're an adult, just metaphorically.

01:07:24And now you're out there and then at some point they need to go, I actually think either, I don't know if he's good without me, but I'm going to let him make mistakes.

01:07:37Or I think he's good without me and I'm not needed anymore.

01:07:42Right.

01:07:42And both of those situations, the first one, the first one's probably even harder because the compulsion to step in to, if you watch your kid run toward a table with a sharp edge, you go, and I pick them up.

01:07:57When you, at 19, as you're about to make your first investment, or at 23, as you're about to get into a long-term, long-distance relationship with someone that your mom knows is bad for you, you know, there's always a, oh, I'll pick you up and stop you from banging your head on the table.

01:08:11Right.

01:08:12There's always that impulse.

01:08:13Yeah.

01:08:14And at some point you need to go, I think he can handle the head bang.

01:08:18Yeah.

01:08:19And I think it's actually good for him to learn from it.

01:08:22But that must be, those two things must be really, really fucking hard for parents.

01:08:28I imagine, like, that would be, and I'm sitting here as a person who tries to control every single part of his fucking life, that when I have children, I'm going to be like, yeah, yeah, sure, go ahead, do it, I'm fine.

01:08:39Like, you know, that's probably much easier said than done.

01:08:43Yeah, I mean, that's impossible.

01:08:45I can't even imagine, like, having a child and feeling like I'm completely responsible for this thing's life.

01:08:51And then it's going to come to a certain point where you have to just completely walk away and be like, hi, I am no longer the coping mechanism.

01:09:02You're not in charge.

01:09:03Because then you, because then it becomes enabling in a way.

01:09:07Or you're, like, hindering your child by being like, I'm always going to be there for, it's like, they have to feel a little alone, like, their decisions are, like, on them and they have to deal with the repercussions.

01:09:17You can't fix everything, obviously.

01:09:20But, yeah, I don't know.

01:09:23That's why a lot of people shit talk university.

01:09:26I'm friends with guys that are largely self-taught in a lot of different things.

01:09:31They went to university for a thing and then have found success doing the opposite thing.

01:09:36Yeah.

01:09:37And the lesson that they've taken away from that is university's bullshit and with the internet, and especially now AI, you can teach yourself anything you want at way faster pace and follow your passions and change and all the rest of it.

01:09:50But I think one of the biggest takeaways from going to uni for me, I was at uni for five years and then stayed in the same city for another eight, was moving out of the house and living on your own with other people that you kind of thrust into this situation.

01:10:08You just need to make it work, unless you stop, obviously.

01:10:12But for the most part, your stuff's still on a set of train tracks, as opposed to, I'm going to move in with my friends and then quickly going to stop.

01:10:19There's more guardrails.

01:10:20It's like, well, I'm here for a purpose.

01:10:21And if I don't like this halls of residence, I can just go to the hall manager and say, I want to move to a different flat.

01:10:25Like, there's a degree of support there.

01:10:28But what it teaches you is, okay, I actually, both the parents and the kids are kind of, it's another umbilical separation, right?

01:10:35It's another cutting of that cord.

01:10:37And this time, it's geographically a little bit.

01:10:40Sometimes it's far.

01:10:41But that, I think, can be really important.

01:10:44But I certainly know for me, only child, very insular, quite introverted family life, that was a huge changing point.

01:10:57Like, I grew up, my level of socialization and understanding of the world tripled by the time I was 21 from 18.

01:11:05It was insane.

01:11:06It's the same reason why it's, like, important to put very young children in school.

01:11:14Like, in, like, pre-K or something.

01:11:16It's, like, they learn socialization.

01:11:17It's kind of the same, but on a different level, obviously.

01:11:19Like, going to college and, like, now you're on your own.

01:11:21You're around a bunch of kids.

01:11:22And you're going to be, like, living by yourself for the first time.

01:11:24And, you know, for all the reasons that you just said.

01:11:26But it's funny how that, like, kind of comes around again.

01:11:29Dude, I saw this tweet earlier on today.

01:11:31You're not autistic.

01:11:32You just work from home and it's making you weird.

01:11:37I wonder if I can use the fact that I'm an only child as an excuse.

01:11:40Dude, I'll tell you.

01:11:41When I was, when I moved into my first real apartment.

01:11:46Because I had an apartment that I just, like, filmed stuff at.

01:11:49And it wasn't really, like, a real apartment.

01:11:51But then my first real apartment, when I moved into that one.

01:11:53I felt so weird.

01:11:56Like, it felt like I'm never.

01:11:59I bought, like, a little bench and some weights and stuff.

01:12:01And then I quickly threw that out.

01:12:03Because I was, like, I need to get a job.

01:12:04Well, yeah.

01:12:05Well, then I was, like, I got to leave this apartment.

01:12:08Because I'm working here.

01:12:10I live here.

01:12:11Now I'm going to work out here.

01:12:13I'm not leaving here.

01:12:14Like, I'm not leaving.

01:12:15Like, I'm nuts.

01:12:16I'm, like, walking around and I'm, you know, whatever.

01:12:18It was just, it's so bad to do that.

01:12:21I got a gym membership at a place, like, a half an hour away.

01:12:23Just so I could, like, drive and go there.

01:12:24We got to talk about that insight that we came up with last night.

01:12:28That if you're a guy who doesn't have a girlfriend in the house after 7 p.m.,

01:12:33you kind of go a bit insane.

01:12:36Dude.

01:12:36What do you do?

01:12:37I could tell you I have a friend who is single and lives on his own now.

01:12:43And I just get, like, random headstand pictures.

01:12:49I'm, like, are you doing headstands?

01:12:51Like, what are you doing?

01:12:52You're stretching?

01:12:53Like, it's 8.30.

01:12:55What are you stretching for?

01:12:56You're getting, like, how hard do you go to bed?

01:12:59Like, it's time for sleep soon.

01:13:00Like, what are you doing?

01:13:01Like, it's, like, random things like that.

01:13:03I think I asked him recently.

01:13:04I was, like, what do you do all day?

01:13:08He's a very busy guy.

01:13:10I don't want to take away.

01:13:10But, like, during those hours, it's, like, how do you entertain yourself?

01:13:14Because at this point, I don't know how to do that.

01:13:17When, like, my fiancé leaves, I'm kind of, like, what the hell do I do?

01:13:23Like, there's no one here.

01:13:25Like, I just kind of, like, walk around.

01:13:27I, like, clean shit.

01:13:28And then I just, like, there's not much to do.

01:13:31Like, I'm, like, oh, this is kind of boring.

01:13:32Am I going to go for a walk?

01:13:34I don't know.

01:13:35You find yourself building weird hobbies.

01:13:37So, I was leaving the house last night to go to dinner with you because you're an insane

01:13:40person and decided to have dinner at 7.30 p.m., which, for me, is, like, is that not fucking

01:13:45late?

01:13:46What are we talking about?

01:13:47That's pretty fucking late.

01:13:49That's pretty fucking late.

01:13:49Is this an Austin thing?

01:13:50That's not late.

01:13:51That's fucking.

01:13:527.30 is late?

01:13:53Okay.

01:13:54We're split 50-50 in the room.

01:13:567.30.

01:13:57Yeah.

01:13:57Well, you was on fucking.

01:13:58That's 8.30.

01:13:58So, I'm leaving the house, and his girlfriend's in Costa Rica, and he looks at me, and he looked

01:14:05really sad, and he came up, and he whispered, and he was, like, I don't know what to do.

01:14:11I was, like, where are you going?

01:14:12I don't know what to do.

01:14:12Like, puppy dog eyes.

01:14:13He's, like, I don't know what to do.

01:14:15I'm, like, George, it's fine.

01:14:17You'll do, I don't know what, you'll read stuff or whatever.

01:14:20And I got back, and he'd written all of this stuff, and he had post-it notes everywhere.

01:14:23So, he'd done, he was doing headstands.

01:14:25Yeah.

01:14:25He'd done his equivalent of doing headstands.

01:14:28Yeah.

01:14:28And then at 10.30 p.m., just 11 o'clock after I got back from dinner, I must have heard

01:14:36him sneeze 15 times in a row.

01:14:39What the hell was he doing?

01:14:40Fucking 15 times in a row.

01:14:42This is agitating to me.

01:14:45Yeah.

01:14:46How annoying must that be if you're the sort of, what's the most number of times you've

01:14:49ever sneezed in a row?

01:14:50I've never gotten close to 15.

01:14:53I think you die if you do that.

01:14:55Yeah.

01:14:55I think I've done, like, five good ones, and then everyone tells you to shut the fuck

01:14:59up.

01:15:00You get two sneezes.

01:15:00Imagine 15.

01:15:0215.

01:15:02Bro.

01:15:0315.

01:15:04I mean, I'm kicking this guy out of my house.

01:15:06Get the fuck out.

01:15:06I know you wrote those post-it notes earlier on and you've been lonely tonight, but it does

01:15:09not excuse you sneezing 15 times.

01:15:1115 is crazy.

01:15:12Is he dead?

01:15:13Actually, I haven't seen him today.

01:15:15Maybe.

01:15:16Yeah.

01:15:16He's probably dead, dude.

01:15:17You should probably check on him.

01:15:18Doesn't it?

01:15:18Isn't like a, there was like an old, like, thing.

01:15:20It's like, if you sneeze, your, like, heart stops.

01:15:22I'm like, 15.

01:15:24Ask chat GPT.

01:15:25If you sneeze, does your heart stop?

01:15:28Or something like that.

01:15:28Fucking wait for this.

01:15:31The AI is going to be like, what idiot acts that question?

01:15:35No.

01:15:35What does happen is sneezing briefly changes the pressure inside your chest.

01:15:39That pressure change can slightly affect blood flow and momentarily alter your heart rhythm,

01:15:43which is why some people feel like their heart skips a beep at the heart.

01:15:45Oh, so he's altering his blood flow like crazy in there.

01:15:48But the worst thing was, I thought it was over and then there would be a 30 second break.

01:15:53And then it would come back.

01:15:55I'm like, fucking what?

01:15:57Oh, is he like a loud?

01:15:58He's a loud sneezing.

01:15:59Oh, he's a real loud one.

01:15:59He's got a big nose.

01:16:00I would prefer that.

01:16:03I hate people who sneeze, like, inside their bodies.

01:16:05It scares me, dude.

01:16:07It's like, I'm like, yo, you're going to hurt your neck or something.

01:16:10Like, your eyes are going to explode out of your head.

01:16:12Like, chill.

01:16:13Like, I have a friend that does that.

01:16:14I'm like, yo, just open your mouth.

01:16:17Like, just, it comes out.

01:16:19All of this can be fixed.

01:16:20It just comes out naturally if you just, like, let your lips flap.

01:16:23Do you think?

01:16:25Poof.

01:16:26I wonder if there's a personality trait, if there's a commonality between

01:16:30the sort of people who keep the sneezing.

01:16:34Oh, man.

01:16:35What is it?

01:16:36I mean, it's not really, like, a learned thing, I guess.

01:16:38You just kind of, like...

01:16:39It's weird when you're driving.

01:16:40I get scared when I'm driving.

01:16:41Bro, first of all, you want to talk about that?

01:16:43My dad, by the way, I'm convinced he's allergic to the sun.

01:16:47I don't know what's going on.

01:16:48But when he would...

01:16:48Sometimes he would drive me to school when I was in high school.

01:16:53We would get in the car.

01:16:55First thing he does is, before he starts the car, he would take his key and clean out his

01:16:59ears with the key, right?

01:17:03This is just the guy he is.

01:17:04I don't know that...

01:17:05And he's deaf.

01:17:06He's not deaf, but he might as well be.

01:17:08Definitely deaf after sticking the car key in his ear.

01:17:10If he went to the doctor, they'd be like, you're deaf.

01:17:12But he...

01:17:13Because he can't hear.

01:17:14But he's been shoving car keys in his ears like that.

01:17:16Then he would start the car, right?

01:17:18That would take 10 minutes because it's a, you know, it's a completely fucked up minivan.

01:17:23And then we would be driving on the highway and he would let off 10 on the highway.

01:17:29We're going 60, 70, and he's sneezing.

01:17:33And I'm looking at him like, my guy, we're drifting.

01:17:38Okay?

01:17:39We're not in a middle lane right now.

01:17:41Like, we're on the...

01:17:42We're on a highway.

01:17:42You got to chill the fuck out.

01:17:43And this...

01:17:44So I was scared for my life mostly when I was going to high school because of that.

01:17:48Yeah.

01:17:49And there was a time where he used to drive around in a, like a work van because he was

01:17:55like a...

01:17:56He worked construction.

01:17:58He would throw us in the back.

01:18:01There wasn't any seats back there.

01:18:03It was just me and my brother.

01:18:05Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:18:05And there's tools.

01:18:07There's, you know, two by four.

01:18:08It's like putting a washing machine.

01:18:11Yeah, there's like a fucking miter saw there.

01:18:12And I'm like, I'm sitting on the edge of the miter saw hoping that he doesn't hit the brakes

01:18:16because the thing's going to go right into my spine.

01:18:18But this is like what he would do.

01:18:20And I really believe that he's allergic to the sun.

01:18:23Like, he's an interesting guy.

01:18:24His whole tooth came out one time.

01:18:26The entire tooth.

01:18:27The entire tooth.

01:18:28Like, if you Google cartoon tooth, like the ones on commercials that have like a toothbrush

01:18:33and dance, they got like the fangs or whatever, that came out of his mouth.

01:18:37How does that even happen to a person?

01:18:40When?

01:18:41What was he doing?

01:18:42Sleeping.

01:18:43He wasn't even chewing gum.

01:18:44He wasn't doing anything.

01:18:45He just popped out of his mouth.

01:18:46You know what you should have done?

01:18:47Headstands before he went to bed.

01:18:49I went to church.

01:18:50I prayed.

01:18:51Headstands?

01:18:52Yeah, no, he's not doing a headstand.

01:18:53Not now.

01:18:54That's how hard he sleeps.

01:18:55Dude, he, his tooth popped out in his sleep, which is insane.

01:18:58And then he just like, usually when that happens.

01:19:00He must grind his teeth.

01:19:01He's got to grind his teeth.

01:19:02He's got to be.

01:19:02Bro, I mean.

01:19:04It's either that or the same demons that got Tucker Carlson in his sleep.

01:19:07How strong is his jaw?

01:19:08Is it like the fucking gorilla's jaw?

01:19:11Or is someone walking in there and hitting him with a bat in the mouth?

01:19:13Over a bunch of yours, I think you can pretty easily like crack a tooth by grinding your

01:19:17tooth.

01:19:17But the tooth was intact.

01:19:18It was a tooth.

01:19:19It was just a tooth.

01:19:20I'm looking at a tooth.

01:19:21Actually, yeah.

01:19:23Like it just, his body was just like.

01:19:24Was it a molar?

01:19:26Front tooth?

01:19:26I'm not a dentist.

01:19:27I don't know if it was a molar.

01:19:29It was an incisor or whatever the fuck that shit is called.

01:19:32I have no idea.

01:19:33What is that going to do for you also?

01:19:35Knowing which tooth it was.

01:19:37Which tooth was it?

01:19:37Oh, okay.

01:19:39Makes so much more sense.

01:19:40It wasn't one of his front tooth though.

01:19:42Like you could hide it.

01:19:43It was one of the back ones.

01:19:44Maybe it was a molar, but it popped out and usually you're like, oh shit, I should go

01:19:49to the dentist because I'm probably dying.

01:19:51That's what I would think.

01:19:52And then he just put it in his sock drawer and he went back to sleep.

01:19:55And then we never really talked about it until now.

01:19:58And now he's going to see this thing and he's going to remember like, yeah, your fucking

01:20:01tooth popped out.

01:20:02Oh shit.

01:20:04Yeah.

01:20:04I need to get that out my sock drawer and put it back in.

01:20:06Oh fuck.

01:20:06Yeah.

01:20:07Where is that thing?

01:20:08We kept it though.

01:20:10We kept it.

01:20:10My parents used to keep our teeth.

01:20:11Your parents do that?

01:20:12Is that an American thing or British thing?

01:20:14I think that's a British thing.

01:20:15You, you, they kept your teeth?

01:20:17Well, yeah.

01:20:17Cause our teeth look like cigarettes.

01:20:18Yeah.

01:20:19Yeah.

01:20:19You guys have crazy teeth.

01:20:21Bro.

01:20:21It's crazy how some of the, like the, uh, stereotypes, like I heard someone, uh, from, uh, someone

01:20:27from Europe was like, I saw a TikTok of being like walking around an American airport and

01:20:32it's like, this is like insane.

01:20:34Like everyone just like looks what you think in America was like an overweight person with

01:20:37Shake Shack in their hand or something like that.

01:20:39But then the UK thing is like, oh, they got bad teeth and beans on toast or whatever.

01:20:43First of all, beans on toast.

01:20:44Low key.

01:20:45I like it.

01:20:46High key.

01:20:47High key though.

01:20:48Teeth are not good.

01:20:50Not that I have the best teeth in the world either, but they got some stuff going on over

01:20:54there for sure.

01:20:55Not good.

01:20:55What is that?

01:20:56Is that just like, I don't know.

01:20:58We've got nationalized healthcare.

01:20:59So I think the fact that you can get the, the number one reason for bankruptcy in America

01:21:04is medical bills is like fucking insane, but just don't pay it easy.

01:21:11Boom.

01:21:11Not paying it.

01:21:12I think you, I think that's how you go bankrupt.

01:21:15I'm not, but you're not getting the money from me.

01:21:17Where are you getting it?

01:21:19But then they, do they not come and take stuff from you?

01:21:21Like your house and your dog?

01:21:23My dog?

01:21:24People are getting murdered if they try to take my dog, dude.

01:21:27The shotgun blast is coming through the fucking door.

01:21:29You're not even going to get in here.

01:21:30Okay.

01:21:30I can see the diplomacy that has gotten you through your career so far between kidnapping

01:21:36your sister and kicking her door down and.

01:21:39It's passion.

01:21:39It's just passion.

01:21:40Yeah, dude.

01:21:41It's my passion.

01:21:41It's my ambition without direction.

01:21:43Yeah.

01:21:44When I've got an Academy Award, I can shoot everybody I want in the face.

01:21:47No, no, no.

01:21:47I mean, yeah.

01:21:48Some of the medical bills are just insane.

01:21:50But the dental thing I don't get because we have free dental.

01:21:54Yeah.

01:21:54So everybody goes to get their teeth looked after.

01:21:56I don't know.

01:21:56Maybe the dentists in the UK are not good.

01:21:58I don't know.

01:21:58Some, there'll be a dentist listening that'll say, well, actually it's because of, maybe

01:22:01it's just, you know, just where you are in the world.

01:22:04I have no idea.

01:22:05Shit weather gives you bad teeth.

01:22:06I don't know.

01:22:07It's just something.

01:22:08Some fucking weird.

01:22:09Jared, you ever considered that you might have a drinking problem?

01:22:13I don't consider a lot, Chris.

01:22:15Well, you drank an entire case of Athletic Brewing Co. last night.

01:22:19But they're non-alcoholic.

01:22:21And that's not a problem?

01:22:23Sorry, man.

01:22:24I just kept chugging, waiting for the regret to creep in.

01:22:27Never happened.

01:22:28See, most people, like Jared, don't want to change what they drink.

01:22:32They just don't want the next day to be a complete write-off.

01:22:35And that is why I'm such a huge fan of Athletic Brewing Co.

01:22:38They make the best NA brews on the planet.

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01:23:07Athletic Brewing Company, fit for all times.

01:23:09Bottoms up.

01:23:14All right, so you said you've got these sort of two sides of your brain that are working,

01:23:21and you've got the business side, and then you've got the creativity side.

01:23:26How do you protect the creative side of your brain when the business side never stops demanding attention?

01:23:33Fortunately for me, I don't really need to do that.

01:23:36You did for a long time.

01:23:37What?

01:23:38You did have to do both of those things.

01:23:40No, no, I'm saying I don't have to separate them.

01:23:42Like, I can be creative, and that helps my business.

01:23:47I'm not good at multitasking.

01:23:50So, like, if I'm, as much as I will be, like, I'm listening when I'm texting someone and someone's talking to me,

01:23:56I can't even hear anything.

01:23:58And I have this thing, too, with, like, noise.

01:24:00Like, I think it's called misophonia, but it's, like, if there's, like, a couple of sounds going on,

01:24:06I just can't.

01:24:07I'm so distracted.

01:24:07That's me, too.

01:24:08I can't read unless it's, like,

01:24:10Huh?

01:24:10I just thought, I thought that was being an autistic only child again.

01:24:14It could be.

01:24:15I don't know.

01:24:15But, I mean, someone getting it.

01:24:16So, when there's noises going on, you're super easily distracted and you can't focus?

01:24:20I, it would really bother, like, certain noises, like, really bother me.

01:24:23Not certain specific noises, but when they're, like, if the TV is on and someone's phone is playing, like, a video really loud,

01:24:31like, I am, I can't even focus.

01:24:33Or if I'm watching a movie and the AC is uneven, I, like, I got to shut it off.

01:24:37Like, I can't.

01:24:38Like, it, I just can't, like, focus.

01:24:40The reason why I say that is because if I had to separate those two things, I don't really think I could.

01:24:45I have worked normal jobs before, obviously.

01:24:49And once the, like, the creative thing is so intense with me that there are times where I had an idea one time for an app.

01:24:57I don't even know what's going on.

01:24:59I don't know why.

01:24:59I didn't actually want to do it, but sometimes when I, an idea will pop into my head and I, and I have to flush it out right now.

01:25:06And, and I sent it to Greg and he was, like, this is the dumbest thing I've ever seen.

01:25:10And I was, like, yeah, I just needed to get it off.

01:25:11But I, I was driving to the gym and I had this idea and I was, like, ooh, that sounds like a good idea.

01:25:18Like, I'm going to start whatever.

01:25:19And I was, like, in my car doing it.

01:25:20And then I got so distracted, like, I have to go home so that I could finish this.

01:25:24So, I left and I went home and I didn't even get into the gym.

01:25:27I just turned my car around and went home.

01:25:29And I typed this whole thing out and I was, like, yo, and I sent it to Greg and I was, like, what do you think about this?

01:25:32He's, like, so stupid.

01:25:34And I'm, like, cool, I'm going to the gym.

01:25:35Go back to the gym.

01:25:36But that's how intense it is for me.

01:25:38Like, I can't multitask and feel, like, like, once I'm creatively inspired by something, like, it has to happen now.

01:25:44Like, there are so many times where I don't know how this happens, but I'll wake up first thing and write, like, a joke or something.

01:25:51I wrote most of my set for MSG that I did at MSG at that time.

01:25:59Like, waking up and being, like, oh, I don't even know what that's about.

01:26:02Because it wasn't necessarily about my dream.

01:26:04Okay.

01:26:04So, the line between sleeping and waking, I can give you at least a bit of science that might explain it.

01:26:10Oh, love this.

01:26:10So, the brainwave that you want to get into when you're in flow state is one step away from what you're in when you're sleeping.

01:26:18So, a lot of engineers throughout history would, and Nobel Prize winners, would sit on seats with ball bearings or something metal in their hand over a plate.

01:26:32And they'd be thinking about an idea, but they'd be relaxing, and they'd have their eyes closed, and as they were drifting off and drifting off and drifting off, and then their hand would open as they fell asleep, and they'd drop the loud thing into the plate, and it would clang, and then they would get up to try and work on the problem.

01:26:49Fucking no way.

01:26:50Yep.

01:26:52That makes so much sense.

01:26:53It's how a bunch of the biggest problems in science have been solved.

01:26:57What?

01:26:58Yep.

01:26:59Damn, I'm going to start paying attention in the fucking morning now.

01:27:01Well, there's another line.

01:27:02So, the guys from Flow Research Collective who work on the science of flow, they try to engineer people to get into flow states more easily.

01:27:08Their number one hack, the easiest hack for anybody to get into flow, begin working within 30 seconds of waking up.

01:27:15Dude, that is fascinating to me.

01:27:17Because that's literally, like, I had no explanation for it.

01:27:20Because I don't even remember the dream that I had, but I woke up and I immediately had, like, a joke?

01:27:26Yep.

01:27:26Like, I don't know, but I would write it down.

01:27:28Do you think you'd have gone to bed thinking about maybe something to do with MSG?

01:27:31Like, it would have been a part of your evening?

01:27:34Maybe.

01:27:34Or it's just in the back of your...

01:27:35Well, you care about it.

01:27:36What you're doing is you're allowing your subconscious to come through at least a little bit.

01:27:40But yeah, that line between sleeping and waking, if you're struggling with an idea.

01:27:43I mean, that's why people say it's...

01:27:44All the cliches are kind of true, which is sleep on it.

01:27:47Yeah.

01:27:48Sleep on it.

01:27:48Sleep on it.

01:27:49See how you feel in the morning.

01:27:50And a lot of the time, you've consolidated your memories and your thoughts from yesterday, last night, and now it's the morning, and you've kind of got it in a new perspective.

01:28:00There you go.

01:28:01Wow.

01:28:01You're using science, dude.

01:28:03Honestly, that is fascinating.

01:28:04I'm stealing that.

01:28:05Yeah.

01:28:05Take it.

01:28:06Take it.

01:28:06Put it in the pod.

01:28:07Wasn't going to ask.

01:28:09There's a line that I fucking love, which is, you can't white knuckle creativity.

01:28:14That I think when you try and force it, it almost never comes out.

01:28:18Like your best ideas, your best jokes.

01:28:20Have you ever...

01:28:21Can you ever remember a time when you've tried to really force a piece of creativity and it's come through?

01:28:27Because for me, it never happens.

01:28:29It's like an erection.

01:28:30The harder you try for it, the more it runs away.

01:28:34Runs away.

01:28:35It does run away from you.

01:28:36It's a good metaphor.

01:28:38Yeah, I am horrible at that.

01:28:41Especially like, it's like, okay, I'm going to set aside time and I'm going to do this thing.

01:28:44Be creative.

01:28:45I can't do it.

01:28:46Without someone's help.

01:28:48I think that Greg's probably better at that because we work creatively on a lot of things,

01:28:52but he's also very good at prompting me.

01:28:57If I can get a prompt or I can get something, like a seed of an idea, then I'm in and we can

01:29:03start doing this right now.

01:29:05But for me to go from zero to a creative thought, like that's always been very difficult for me.

01:29:11Riffing is significantly easier.

01:29:14Insanely.

01:29:15Yeah.

01:29:15Insanely.

01:29:16Yeah, that is better.

01:29:17I have never been in a writer's room really for much, but for Newtonic, we do skits and sketches

01:29:25and stuff for the different ads and new flavor releases and things like that.

01:29:29And then we've done some for my tour announcements and I didn't realize that what we were doing

01:29:35was sitting in a writer's room, right?

01:29:36I'm aware that this has been done for like fucking a hundred years and people realize that

01:29:40if you come in with an idea and you have a bunch of people who are all working on the

01:29:43same thing at the same time, you go, why don't we, uh, no, no.

01:29:47Well, what if we, and you bounce that around, but it doesn't just need to be constrained

01:29:53to people that are making movies.

01:29:55Right.

01:29:55It can be anybody in a team.

01:29:57You're like, okay, let's just come in with some ideas and talk about what the fuck's going

01:30:02on.

01:30:02And if you've got one person that's at least a bit diligent, the person who's got a shit

01:30:06ton of creativity kind of gets jumping off points.

01:30:09But I don't know about you, but I get really excitable and enthusiastic when stuff like that.

01:30:13I'm like, oh, oh, yeah, yeah.

01:30:14And, and then, but it does need that.

01:30:17And it's like rolling a boulder down a hill just needs that push at the start.

01:30:22I'm really bad at pushing it.

01:30:24I'm really fucking good at rolling down a hill.

01:30:26Yeah.

01:30:26And sometimes all it takes is a question or like even the worst idea I've ever heard to

01:30:32be like, no, this, like, it's like, I just can't go from zero to a hundred.

01:30:38No, it's zero to one.

01:30:39Zero to one.

01:30:39Yeah.

01:30:39Yeah, definitely.

01:30:40And then one to a hundred, piece of piss.

01:30:42Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

01:30:43Like, it's just, it's one of those things that like, I just need to be sort of prompted

01:30:47or whatever, because I, I can like kind of put things off.

01:30:53And part of that I think is kind of like, I, when there's pressure, I feel like I can perform.

01:31:01And I like, if there's pressure, like, I'd rather that be on me.

01:31:04Cause I feel like, okay, I'm, we're going to live.

01:31:07I'll, I can live and die by like my decisions or whatever.

01:31:11But I just need that, like that little push.

01:31:15Like if it's up to me, like it's all through school or whatever, like I'm up the night before

01:31:20like finishing things and whatever, like I can't get ahead of it because I don't know.

01:31:26Like, I mean, I think this is a horrible like way to be like, you could stack things and kind

01:31:32of get ahead on those things.

01:31:33Like now it's different.

01:31:34I mean, professionally it's, it's a little easier to like, I've, I've had a lot of practice,

01:31:39but it's not natural to me.

01:31:41I've had to work at it like very, like I've had to work on it a lot to get to the point

01:31:46where I can come up with like ideas out of thin air.

01:31:50I would say an overwhelming majority of any sort of creative decision or thing that I've

01:31:58ever made in my life has come at like out of nowhere.

01:32:02Like it kind of just enters your brain.

01:32:04But if we're like having a conversation about, um, you know, we're, we're doing,

01:32:09the new tour at the end of the year.

01:32:11And it's like, well, we have to create a brand new show.

01:32:14And I won't just do that.

01:32:20I have to have Greg be like, so we need a new show.

01:32:25Here's what I was thinking.

01:32:26Like an idea, like, Hey, how do you, what do you think about this as an idea?

01:32:30And then magically I'll have four ideas and then I'll be able to be like, okay, you know,

01:32:36whatever, like I need like, that is where I, it like unlocks ideas that are probably in

01:32:42there, but I can't start the conversation for some reason.

01:32:46Also Greg and Frank love to say that, well, everyone, they love to say that like, there

01:32:52is sometimes they'll have an idea.

01:32:55And then a week later I'll say their idea and act like it's mine.

01:33:00And they're like, Oh yeah, no, no one said that.

01:33:02No big deal.

01:33:03I'm like, wait, because I'm like, when someone says something, I'm like, okay, I'm like really

01:33:08taking it in and I can't do two, two things at once.

01:33:11So I'm like walking around with it and not actively thinking about it, but like, it's

01:33:15there.

01:33:16So by the time it comes back, I've already forgotten the origin.

01:33:19And it's like, I've just been lost in the idea or something.

01:33:22And now it just comes out and people are like, yeah, fucking said that.

01:33:25I'm like, okay, sorry.

01:33:27It's a great idea.

01:33:29Sorry.

01:33:30Don't take yourself too seriously, but do take the work seriously.

01:33:35Absolutely.

01:33:36I mean, that's, it's, it's similar to what I was saying before, where you have to be

01:33:40humble.

01:33:40Like, don't take yourself too seriously.

01:33:41I mean, especially me at the end of the day, like the fuck am I doing?

01:33:44I'm like, you know, I'm not changing lives here.

01:33:46Like I'm trying to be funny, trying to be entertaining.

01:33:49I'm doing a podcast with my friend that I've known the longest.

01:33:52And I have like a very, uh, you know, it's, it's demanding, but like, it's, it's a fun

01:33:58job ultimately.

01:33:59And like, my job is to have fun.

01:34:02And I do take it very seriously, especially at this point, because I think that a lot of

01:34:07people, from what I've seen, like our fans, they get a lot of, a lot from it.

01:34:11It helps them escape things.

01:34:15Um, I don't necessarily feel that part because that's hard to imagine that I could be that

01:34:20for someone, even though I can very much imagine other people being that for me.

01:34:24Um, I can't imagine that, uh, so I, I take it very seriously because I, I want to earn

01:34:31it.

01:34:32I want to be good at something.

01:34:34I want other people in the space to respect the things that I've done in the approach and

01:34:39those sorts of things.

01:34:40But at the same time, I'm not over here.

01:34:42Like, you know, I'm changing the world or I'm doing whatever.

01:34:45And I don't, I don't know that I'll ever have that, to be honest with you.

01:34:48I mean, I just don't, I don't think that helps anybody to take yourself super seriously and

01:34:55act like, you know, just arrogant about their decisions.

01:35:01Like, even when you get the thing that you've been working for, for so long, like now's not

01:35:06the time to be like, I fucking told you.

01:35:09Cause that also feels like, did you do that in spite of someone?

01:35:13Like, I'm not doing anything in spite of somebody or because I'm insecure and I need to appear

01:35:17a certain way to other people.

01:35:18Like this is for me.

01:35:19I want to do it and I enjoy doing it.

01:35:22So that's my motivation.

01:35:24Like I'm trying to just enjoy my life and I'm trying to help as many people as I can.

01:35:30Truly.

01:35:30Like that's truly what I'm trying to do.

01:35:32That's it.

01:35:33And it's very simple and I'm completely content in that.

01:35:38And I'll try to find new ways to do that.

01:35:40I believe that I can find new ways to do that.

01:35:43And that's it.

01:35:44And it's very, also very important for me to make sure that everyone is happy while we're

01:35:48doing it.

01:35:49Because our job is to have fun and to entertain other people.

01:35:57But in order to do that, you need to be happy, right?

01:36:00I can't have you be disgruntled.

01:36:02I can't have you feel like, and also like my company, the things that, the way that I

01:36:07run things, like you're not going to miss a birthday or you're not going to miss your,

01:36:11your, your marriage isn't going to go by the wayside because of me.

01:36:15Like I'm, that's not going to happen.

01:36:16Like we're, we're very flexible at what time, no one's late to shit that I have to do.

01:36:21Like you can't be late to things.

01:36:23I mean, I was late today, but that was like a, that was a, that was a time zone thing.

01:36:27That wasn't like a respect thing.

01:36:29My eyes just kept getting wider and wider.

01:36:31You were late, dude.

01:36:32But like, I, I like, no one can be like late for stuff.

01:36:35Like we'll, we'll get it done, whatever.

01:36:37But you know, there's, there's people who have children and it's like, you're, you're there

01:36:40for the morning.

01:36:40You're there for, you know, the evening.

01:36:41And we have a very loose, like a, a work schedule.

01:36:47And I want that.

01:36:48I want there to be this balance.

01:36:49I do see my job as an extension of me, but it's a completely different part of my life.

01:36:54My personal life is very important to me.

01:36:55And I, and I truly like live a great life.

01:37:00I have a, a, like a, a great social life and friends and I like to go out and stuff like

01:37:04that.

01:37:05And I do enjoy my job as well, but it feels like two separate worlds in a way.

01:37:09It's rare.

01:37:10Mine does too.

01:37:10It's rare that I would get around people.

01:37:13Like I really wouldn't enjoy, I don't think, hanging out with people and the, and when I

01:37:20hang out with them, we're always talking about podcasting or, you know, just something that

01:37:27I'm doing at work.

01:37:28Cause I'd be like, bro, I just like, I'm just not interested in it that much, to be honest

01:37:32with you.

01:37:33Like I, I'm interested in what I'm doing it.

01:37:35I can't do it when I'm kind of like, we can acknowledge that.

01:37:39I have a job that does that or whatever, but like, I'm just not interested in it that much.

01:37:43I don't really watch a lot of podcasts.

01:37:46I don't watch any real YouTubers like, or, or anything like that.

01:37:50It's just not what I'm into.

01:37:52Like I, I, I, I just have like a normal life and I do this thing on the side.

01:37:57That's kind of like what it feels like.

01:37:58I always think about MMA fighters and kind of friends with a couple, but no one super,

01:38:03super high level, but if you were friends with fucking Sean Strickland or whatever, and

01:38:08actually Sean's a bad, bad example.

01:38:11Cause he's an insane, who's a, who's a really normal person that happens to be a super high

01:38:16level Dustin Poirier.

01:38:18Yeah.

01:38:18Perfect example.

01:38:19Or like Michael Chandler or someone like that.

01:38:21Like just normal dudes that happen.

01:38:22Like if they didn't wear things that showed off the fact that they're fucking animals and

01:38:26then you're like, you're such a normal guy except for this bit of your life.

01:38:33Right.

01:38:33And then in this one area, if I put you in a very specific situation, you're the most

01:38:38abnormal person on the planet.

01:38:39And I guess it's kind of like a fucking porn star something like, Hey, in this one scenario,

01:38:45things are kind of extreme.

01:38:47And outside of that, you're probably just a normal fucking dude.

01:38:51Yeah.

01:38:51And it's like that much is obvious that like, I'm not over here.

01:38:56Like I'm just a normal guy.

01:38:57Like my life is not fucking outrageous or anything, but I, I, there is a definite feel of

01:39:03like these things are separate and it's important for me to have that and to make sure that everyone

01:39:09is, has a flexible schedule.

01:39:12I think that's the ultimate dream, right?

01:39:13You want to be able to, at least for me and the people that I've hired and keep around me

01:39:18is like, we want to be creative.

01:39:19We want to be able to see our families and have freedom to do certain things.

01:39:25And I also encourage anybody that, that works for me or does whatever to like, if you have

01:39:29your own creative thing that you want to do, I'm in full support of that.

01:39:33Like, and if we can help in some sort of way, we will.

01:39:36And I, I just, my job is a lot easier if everyone's happy.

01:39:42So I try to keep people as happy as possible.

01:39:44Like, of course there's times we have to like, sort of reel that in a little bit, but for the

01:39:50most part, it's like, this needs to be a good experience.

01:39:53When we go on tour, like we're not staying in like, just this, like the cheapest hotel

01:39:58where I'm trying to like book a really cool Airbnb or something that has like a pool and

01:40:03a cool view or whatever.

01:40:04Cause I want people to feel like we're all going to look back on this thing in our life.

01:40:08This is not a normal thing.

01:40:10Like no one gets to do this.

01:40:11This is very abnormal.

01:40:12And I want people to look back on it and feel like that was such a great time in my life.

01:40:17Like I know that I will look back on some of those pictures and now we have all these memories

01:40:24attached to them.

01:40:24Not just the fact that like, oh my God, that was so cool that we were able to do that when

01:40:27we were younger, but also like, oh, do you remember when we went and did this thing too?

01:40:31And when we were blah, blah, blah, like we tried to go to all these cities and do something

01:40:36fun and try to get it on camera or like there's photos and things like that.

01:40:40Like I want it to, to be something that you can look back on like super fondly, you know

01:40:46what I mean?

01:40:47So that, that is very important to me.

01:40:49I do enjoy being able to think about that, which is an absolute like luxury that I even

01:40:55get to do that.

01:40:56Cause a lot of people who are in charge of something, they don't, they can't, they have

01:41:01shareholders or whatever.

01:41:03And it's just about the numbers.

01:41:04It's just me.

01:41:06That's like that, you know what I mean?

01:41:07So it's like, I just have to make sure everyone's super happy and we're all being creative.

01:41:12How else do you think about engineering fun?

01:41:15There's a lot of people, a lot of people take their work seriously, but it can cause them

01:41:21to become quite rigid.

01:41:22It can cause everything to become, it can go from serious to stern, if that makes sense.

01:41:29And they're not loose and flowy and not actually finding time to enjoy this process.

01:41:35They're very, very focused on the outcome, kind of the.

01:41:37Cost of getting there.

01:41:39Yeah.

01:41:40How do you think about engineering fun?

01:41:42So it's not sternness when you're doing your work.

01:41:47I think that the only way it can, can be, can become stern is if you're trying to like

01:41:52manufacture it.

01:41:53Like if you're trying, like we're going to have fun.

01:41:55It's like, fuck, that's not how you do it.

01:41:58You know, like I'm happy right now.

01:42:00I swear.

01:42:01And it's like, you're not like do the things that make you happy.

01:42:04Like follow the excitement, like do those things.

01:42:06If it doesn't resonate with you and it doesn't feel like in line with what you want to do,

01:42:09even if it's good money or whatever, like I will say no.

01:42:13What's the biggest opportunity that you've ever turned down?

01:42:17I mean, I turned down doing the tour for a number of years because at that point, a lot

01:42:20of people were like, you could just go on stage and talk to each other.

01:42:23And then you could make a bunch of money doing that.

01:42:25And I'm like, that's just not, no, that's not cool.

01:42:27Like I'm not doing that.

01:42:28And I don't care.

01:42:29Like, I don't care at it.

01:42:30There was a time I remember specifically when I was doing YouTube, um, there was a, a brand

01:42:36deal that came in for $75,000 and what they wanted was for me to, and this was kind of

01:42:43abnormal at the time to promote a phone game that was like something with zombies.

01:42:53I was like, what, but they wanted, which I was okay with doing, but I always did, uh,

01:42:59advertisements at the very end of my video.

01:43:02Um, and that's the way I did things because I was like, the product needs to be there.

01:43:06I mean, people are going to shut it off, but like, whatever, I'm going to stay true to that.

01:43:10Cause I'm building something here, but they wanted me to put it in the first, like 30 seconds

01:43:15or a minute, and that's why they were paying $75,000.

01:43:18And I was like, I'm not doing that.

01:43:19Like I'm not doing that.

01:43:21And there's, there's been other deals.

01:43:23I mean, it, it happens a lot.

01:43:24There's, there's been six figure deal deals that I'm like, no, I'm not doing that.

01:43:28Cause I don't want to do that.

01:43:29Because the brand wasn't aligned.

01:43:31Or it's like, they just want me to do something that I'm not comfortable doing that.

01:43:34I'm just like, no, like I won't.

01:43:36Why would I do that?

01:43:37Especially I'm also, I'm almost offended that.

01:43:41And it used to be worse.

01:43:42My agent one time I was, I was, uh, I did this thing, um, with the rock.

01:43:47Right.

01:43:48So they, this is a good example, actually with this, I got hit up through my email from the

01:43:54rock's team.

01:43:55And he was starting his YouTube channel at the time.

01:43:57This was a while ago.

01:43:58And they were going to do this, uh, this series called rock the promo where they would have

01:44:03wrestlers kind of like as a guest host.

01:44:07And then they would have like, you know, just people who wanted to be whatever they were

01:44:12like cut promos.

01:44:12They would like have a character.

01:44:14That's a good idea.

01:44:14Yeah.

01:44:15So that's, that was on the YouTube channel.

01:44:16They asked me to host it, to be the guy that hosts and then does like color, color commentary.

01:44:21And I was like, oh my God, that's awesome.

01:44:22They're like, yeah, it's the rock.

01:44:24And like the finale, you'll, you'll be with him and you guys will do it together.

01:44:27And I was like, this is awesome.

01:44:29And they're like, yeah, it's filming in LA and we'll need you there for like two weeks or

01:44:33whatever.

01:44:33And I was like, oh, forget it.

01:44:35No, like I'm not doing that.

01:44:37Why?

01:44:37Cause I didn't want to go to LA.

01:44:39I, I, I, I was making YouTube videos and I was doing my podcast at the time, which wasn't

01:44:47like super successful or anything, but I like had a schedule and I liked that.

01:44:52And I liked my life.

01:44:53You're asking me to go there for two weeks.

01:44:55It also at the time didn't pay a lot, but that didn't really matter.

01:44:59Cause it could have been whatever.

01:45:00I mean, unless it was like life changing, then I would have been like, all right, fuck all

01:45:03this I'm going.

01:45:04Cause I didn't have a lot of money at that time, but I.

01:45:07Was like, no, I can't like, I'm not doing that.

01:45:11Apparently he really wanted me to do it.

01:45:13So they moved the recording to New York and we recorded it in New York.

01:45:18And then the part that's funny is like, that's what I'm saying.

01:45:20Like it used to be worse.

01:45:21Cause when someone tries to incentivize me with money, that bothers me like crazy.

01:45:27If they like, you think that you could have bought me with that.

01:45:30It's like, all right, I want you to do this.

01:45:32And I'm like, I don't want to do that.

01:45:32It's like, all right, what if we give you this money?

01:45:34It's like, what do you think of me that you can buy me into?

01:45:37Like, I just said, I don't want to do it.

01:45:39You know what I mean?

01:45:40Like, it won't be about the money.

01:45:41So in this situation, it was funny.

01:45:43The thing that I hated also back then was like, you go into a meeting and people start

01:45:46name dropping, like, yeah, we work with this and this and this.

01:45:50And I'm like, I don't care.

01:45:51Why do I care?

01:45:52Like, let's talk about the thing that we're doing.

01:45:54Is it going to be good?

01:45:55Can you be helpful?

01:45:56Or can I be helpful even?

01:45:58And on the set of, by the way, amazing thing with the Rocks team.

01:46:02And I eventually met him.

01:46:03And well, that's a cool story that I should tell you.

01:46:05But on set, the PA there was like saying something.

01:46:12And then she's like, oh, yeah.

01:46:14She like mentioned someone's name.

01:46:16And then she was like, oh.

01:46:17And I was like, well, I was like, what was that?

01:46:19She's like, oh, your agent was like, try not to name drop because that bothers you.

01:46:22And I was like, oh, God, what have I done?

01:46:24I was like, what is this monster that I've created?

01:46:26Your reputation procedure.

01:46:27Yeah, I was like, oh, my God.

01:46:29I'm like, it's not that bad.

01:46:30I'm like, definitely not in this sort of situation because, you know, I was just happy to be there.

01:46:36But the Rock dude was the nicest guy in my experience.

01:46:42Like, I hadn't had any back and forth with him at all during this thing.

01:46:47And then the finale of this thing was filming in Vegas.

01:46:50And he was going to be there.

01:46:52He was flying from Hawaii, filming one of the Jumanjis, I guess.

01:46:57And coming back, doing this thing, then going to host the Mr. Olympia, whatever the fuck, and then going back to Hawaii in one day.

01:47:08Psychotic.

01:47:08But on the way over to Vegas, I'm like on the plane and I'm by myself.

01:47:16So I'm like, I'm just going to kill some time.

01:47:17I'm going to write a sketch.

01:47:19And then I'm going to send it to his producer because I had his email.

01:47:23And I'm like, oh, if the Rock wants to be on my YouTube channel, like, here's, you know, whatever.

01:47:27So I wrote this thing out and I sent it to his producer.

01:47:32Never heard anything.

01:47:33But get to set.

01:47:37And he shows up eventually.

01:47:39And everyone's like crowding him, you know, whatever.

01:47:41And I'm kind of like, I'm like nervous because I'm like, okay, I can't fuck this up.

01:47:45Like I had some lines that I had to, whatever.

01:47:48And I was like hosting this thing.

01:47:50He comes up to me, the nicest guy in the world.

01:47:53Like we're boys.

01:47:55Like the guy, by the end of the shoot, like we were joking around in between takes.

01:47:58The director's like, all right, fucking stop.

01:48:00Like it was kind of like that.

01:48:02Like, come on, we got to fucking, we got time or whatever.

01:48:04Like we were just joking around.

01:48:05The guy who was doing the lighting on the set was like, how long have you guys known each other?

01:48:09I'm like, I just fucking met that guy.

01:48:11He's like, what?

01:48:11I thought you guys were friends for years.

01:48:13Like he was super nice to me.

01:48:14At the end of the shoot, he comes up to me and he goes,

01:48:20I know you sent that script, but, uh, you know, and I was like, what the fuck is he talking about?

01:48:24I had forgotten.

01:48:25I was already like, this is an amazing experience.

01:48:27So I was like, what the fuck is he talking about?

01:48:29Some script.

01:48:30And he's like, I can't do the script, but what do you say?

01:48:32We just like improv, like a scene.

01:48:35And he's, and I was like, okay.

01:48:36And he's like, what do you want the scene to be?

01:48:37I was like, okay, why don't we just have like an argument that, you know, I wasn't your like first or second choice to be host.

01:48:43And I'll just get offended by that.

01:48:45And at the end, you'll just give me a rock bottom.

01:48:46And he was like, all right, cool.

01:48:47So then they turned the cameras on.

01:48:49And we just improv to scene one take and we, and I put it out and like, there's a video on my YouTube channel where we watch that and you get that up.

01:48:56I want to see you getting rock bottomed.

01:48:58If we could find it, I, it cuts in the middle.

01:49:01I didn't like hit the deck.

01:49:02I would have liked to, I did get a diamond cutter though.

01:49:05One time.

01:49:06What's that?

01:49:06From DDP diamond Dallas page.

01:49:09He's like a wrestler.

01:49:10And the job that being Greg, like used to, we met at, we used to work for this company elite daily.

01:49:15He came in to shoot like a video and we all were just like, yo, can you give us a diamond cutter?

01:49:19Cause there was like a pad that we had.

01:49:22So he's just diamond cutting everyone in the office.

01:49:25There he is.

01:49:26It was a different time.

01:49:27Don't judge the tightness of my pants.

01:49:30Hey, listen, man.

01:49:30I just want to thank you for doing such a great job on Rock the Promo.

01:49:34I really appreciate being like your first round draft pick for this.

01:49:36It really, that means a lot to me.

01:49:38Oh, hey, no problem.

01:49:39I don't know first round.

01:49:40What is first round?

01:49:40You mean like my first choice?

01:49:42Yeah, my, yeah.

01:49:42Ah, well, you weren't quite my first choice, but hey.

01:49:45Wait, hold on.

01:49:45Hey.

01:49:46Time out.

01:49:46Hold on.

01:49:46No, no, no.

01:49:47So I wasn't your first choice.

01:49:48So they lied to me.

01:49:49You guys lied to me.

01:49:50Great.

01:49:50Because I was told I was first round.

01:49:52Who was first?

01:49:52Hey, easy.

01:49:53It was Kevin Hart.

01:49:54I know you guys are like basically dating now.

01:49:56Oh, you're hanging out all the time on Instagram.

01:49:57Easy.

01:49:57Calm down.

01:49:58Hey, but listen.

01:49:59Okay, I'll get over it.

01:49:59Relax, please, relax.

01:50:00Second place is fine.

01:50:01Silver, I'm cool with silver.

01:50:02You weren't first choice.

01:50:03Okay.

01:50:04Okay.

01:50:04That's fine.

01:50:04Buddy, come on.

01:50:05You weren't second choice.

01:50:07I wasn't second choice.

01:50:07So now I'm not second choice.

01:50:09No, you're not second choice either.

01:50:11Listen, I don't know who lied to you, okay?

01:50:13But listen, you weren't first choice, but you were a great choice.

01:50:16Right?

01:50:16How about that?

01:50:17Yeah, that's something you tell losers.

01:50:18Huh?

01:50:19Okay.

01:50:19Listen.

01:50:19Okay, bronze.

01:50:20I'm on the podium.

01:50:21Whatever.

01:50:21What the fuck you get so angry about?

01:50:24What's the matter?

01:50:24Third place.

01:50:25It's fine.

01:50:25Oh, it's cool.

01:50:26Whatever.

01:50:26It's no big deal.

01:50:27Listen, all right.

01:50:27Well, here's the truth.

01:50:27Well, you're being an asshole right now.

01:50:29You weren't first.

01:50:29You weren't second.

01:50:30You weren't third.

01:50:31Okay, here's third.

01:50:32Right here's here.

01:50:33And you were way the fuck.

01:50:36Okay?

01:50:36That's where you were.

01:50:37But it's cool, dude, because you did a great job.

01:50:39That's un-fucking-believable.

01:50:41You have some balls in front of all these people just to say some shit like that to me?

01:50:44What are you getting angry like that for?

01:50:45What's the matter with you?

01:50:45I'm all the way in the fucking corner with the dirt.

01:50:49There's dust and shit?

01:50:50No, you've been sucking dick for beer money for 10 years.

01:50:52That is not true.

01:50:53That is not true.

01:50:54Okay, now what are you talking about?

01:50:55I've never sucked any dicks for beer money ever in my whole life.

01:50:58Yeah, you have, all right?

01:50:58I know, but it's between us.

01:50:59Not one dick.

01:51:00All right, stop it.

01:51:00And how do you know that?

01:51:01How do you just think that people-

01:51:02Be grateful.

01:51:03How do you know people even suck dick for beer money?

01:51:05Be grateful, okay?

01:51:06Okay, yeah, I'm grateful.

01:51:07For movie tickets.

01:51:08How many times, remember?

01:51:09Zero times.

01:51:10Stop it.

01:51:10Yeah, how many times you go, yeah, I'll get your tickets to somebody.

01:51:12You want to go to my premiere?

01:51:13It's going to be awesome.

01:51:19Very nice.

01:51:20Did you have a good time on the show?

01:51:21Huh?

01:51:21It was nice.

01:51:22Okay?

01:51:22I did.

01:51:22All right.

01:51:23It was good.

01:51:23Come on, buddy.

01:51:24Okay, I'm sorry.

01:51:25Thank you.

01:51:25Thank you.

01:51:26I really appreciate it.

01:51:26Come on, get in here.

01:51:28Unreal.

01:51:29It was a lot of fun.

01:51:35But that was such a crazy thing.

01:51:36And that was very early on in my career doing this, too.

01:51:40So it was a cool opportunity.

01:51:42Looking back on it, I do have regrets of being like,

01:51:47no, not going to go to LA, because who are you to say that you're not going to go to LA?

01:51:53But I give myself some grace because I do think that, especially at that time, I was protecting myself.

01:51:59I felt very strongly about the authenticity thing, and I'm like,

01:52:05I have to just do the things that I think are right in this moment, and I'll probably be wrong.

01:52:09I mean, even decisions that I make today, I will probably look back on and be like,

01:52:13I would have done that differently.

01:52:14But you can't beat yourself up about that.

01:52:19Maybe that was the right choice for that time.

01:52:22How do you know the difference between being authentic and impulsive?

01:52:26I don't think that I did.

01:52:28I don't think I did.

01:52:29I mean, I like to think that I'm not a...

01:52:32You know what I mean?

01:52:33You can make a rash decision like that and go, well, that felt authentic or that feels authentic to me,

01:52:39but it's actually maybe a decision that you haven't been sufficiently considerate around.

01:52:43Sure.

01:52:44I think that I make an effort to not make emotional decisions.

01:52:49So if I'm very angry and I would like to say no, I'm like, I got to walk away from this so that I can make a decision not based on that.

01:52:58So I think that's a helpful thing, like through therapy, is like emotional decision making, I think.

01:53:07I mean, it can be good and bad.

01:53:08It can work out.

01:53:08But also you can live to regret that because you're like, oh, I made that when I was not in the clearest headspace.

01:53:13Or I did that in spite of something like that's also a thing that I desperately try not to do.

01:53:19Like, I don't want to do anything in spite of something.

01:53:21Like, I want to do something.

01:53:21Try and prove someone else or something else.

01:53:23Yeah.

01:53:24Like, that would just be like an insecurity thing.

01:53:27Like, I'm trying to be a secure person, which I consider myself like a secure person, especially when it comes to like creative stuff like that.

01:53:34Like, of course, I have moments of insecurity, but when it comes to decision making, I need to be in a point and like give myself some credit for like you've you've made it this far following your gut and your intuition.

01:53:48So just make a call.

01:53:52And if you're wrong, which I've been wrong many times, it's my fault.

01:53:55Fine.

01:53:56But what I can't live with is someone like an agent or something being like, this is the thing for you.

01:54:06This is what you have to do.

01:54:07And then I end up doing that and I don't like it and it doesn't work out because a lot of stuff now doesn't work out for people like creatively.

01:54:15Like, shit doesn't work all the time.

01:54:16Like, that's part of the job kind of.

01:54:18But like if it was on them, I'd be furious because then it would feel like, oh, my God.

01:54:24But I like, I let it go for a second.

01:54:27I let go of the reins and I let someone dictate, you know, and I knew my failure.

01:54:32Yeah.

01:54:32Like, I can't even like my failure is that I let you make the decision almost, you know, like there's a the word that's coming to mind is conviction, doing something with conviction.

01:54:44And both me and George, big nose, sneezes a lot.

01:54:50Our co-theme for 2026 is high conviction.

01:54:56We both want to be more high conviction with things.

01:54:59So that's when I have a sense that this is the right thing, commit to that thing.

01:55:03Yeah.

01:55:03And it is way better to be high conviction and fail than low conviction and fail.

01:55:14Way better.

01:55:15Yeah, yeah.

01:55:15Because at least when you're high conviction and fail, you get to learn, you get to update, you get to, oh, I'm fine.

01:55:21Okay, like I went for that.

01:55:24Next time when I go for it again, I'll do it slightly differently or I'll go for something else.

01:55:29But the low conviction failure thing, you're not even moving.

01:55:33You're just being sort of swept along.

01:55:35You're not learning decision making.

01:55:37And that's, again, it's that sliding versus deciding thing.

01:55:40Yeah.

01:55:40At no point did you decide for this to happen.

01:55:44Yeah.

01:55:44You just sort of fell into it.

01:55:45I also want to make it clear that I don't think that I'm just right.

01:55:52Like, I think I'm like, it's not that I think I'm right.

01:55:54It's like, I think, well, actually, maybe that is what I'm trying to say is that if I believe that I'm right, then I'm like, okay, but I don't think you're wrong.

01:56:02Like, I think you're right too.

01:56:03And I think everyone is right.

01:56:05And I think you need to like trust yourself.

01:56:06Like your intuition, if you can really sit with yourself and you know yourself and you're sitting there, like, this is the thing.

01:56:11You're right.

01:56:11Like, you're right.

01:56:12Just believe that you're right.

01:56:14And just keep following that.

01:56:16Like, allow yourself to make mistakes.

01:56:18Allow yourself to believe in yourself.

01:56:20And allow the belief to dictate your behavior.

01:56:24Like, you'll be surprised where that can bring you.

01:56:26It just like drags you along when you can really be like, this is what feels like the right decision in this moment.

01:56:31It doesn't even have to be professionally.

01:56:32It could be like personally or whatever.

01:56:35If you are sitting somewhere and you know, like, okay, I don't want to make an emotional decision.

01:56:39And you have that awareness.

01:56:40And you're like, I just need to do what's best for me, what I truly believe in my heart.

01:56:43Like, you're right.

01:56:45Like, you have to be right.

01:56:46Because it's you.

01:56:47It's your life.

01:56:47Like, you're in charge of everything.

01:56:49Like, it's your life.

01:56:50You'll make the decisions.

01:56:51Everything is your fault.

01:56:53Everything that goes wrong is your fault.

01:56:54But what that means is that everything that you get out of life is because of you too.

01:56:59And you should be happy for the good things in your life.

01:57:01And that can get hard because when things start going bad, you're like, I'm fucking my shit up right now.

01:57:07But it makes the wins like that much sweeter.

01:57:10I think then when people can get to the point where one time, it only needs to happen one time, where you like really feel deeply about something.

01:57:24And then it ends up being right.

01:57:26And you get the validation or it's correct and you get that from the situation.

01:57:31You realize that you can do that.

01:57:33Like, that is a huge moment.

01:57:35Like, I can feel something so deeply.

01:57:37And then that's how I made my decision.

01:57:39And then it ended up being the right path.

01:57:41That's so powerful.

01:57:42Instead of overthinking, stopping yourself, which a lot of people do, overthinking it and being like, well, no, because of this, this, and this, and whatever.

01:57:50Like, just what is the thing you feel?

01:57:52It's like, make it simpler.

01:57:53And this is why, like, the authenticity thing I think is important because what is it just driving you?

01:57:59And it seems very almost like selfish in a way.

01:58:05But it's like, it's further back than that.

01:58:07It's, it's not a self-serving thing.

01:58:09It's like, I, it's, it's just something I just believe.

01:58:13Like, it's a belief in me that I just need to see play out.

01:58:18Without being, by the way, um, I don't even know the right word, but just like, not in like a negative way.

01:58:26Like, I need to get my way because I'm not that person whatsoever.

01:58:30Just, there's a belief though, that I'm like, I just believe that I'm right.

01:58:34And I can be wrong, but it doesn't change the fact that I believed.

01:58:37And I get to a point and I'm okay with being wrong because that's fine.

01:58:41The only thing that I need is to believe something.

01:58:44I've said that word a thousand times already, but like, it's true.

01:58:47Like, that's kind of how I feel about all the decisions or every single opinion that I have.

01:58:50Like, I need to believe all my opinions.

01:58:52I don't have any opinions that I'm kind of like, oh, I don't know.

01:58:56Or I can, like, if I'm, if I spent time with it and I have an opinion, like I have an opinion and I, and I believe in it and I will like fight for it.

01:59:04But if you say something that completely destroys my shit, my shit is gone.

01:59:09I'm not, I have no ego.

01:59:10I can get rid of it.

01:59:11I will keep this one now.

01:59:13You know, like I'm so willing to learn and, uh, and to grow.

01:59:19Like, I want that.

01:59:20I, I welcome that.

01:59:21I want to be wrong.

01:59:23Like, I want to be wrong.

01:59:24Like, I need to, I need to believe that I'm right, but I actually want to be wrong.

01:59:28Like I actually do.

01:59:29Cause then that's where the growth comes.

01:59:31Like now I'm, I, now I can get better, you know, like actually doing good.

01:59:35Like, I don't think that a lot of people just want to live in, in a comfort zone, right?

01:59:41They just want to live in a space that makes them, that just validates them completely all the time.

01:59:46And they, it's, it's whatever some, not all people, but like some people want to live in there.

01:59:50I actually don't believe that having comfort every single day of your life will result in some sort of net positive.

01:59:58I think that it's only a matter of time where you get like restless and you'll like create a problem because you don't have any problems.

02:00:07At least for me.

02:00:08And I don't know this to be right.

02:00:09I'm just some idiot, but it, it almost feels like we're humans are not designed that way.

02:00:15Like you need purpose.

02:00:16And part of purpose is challenged.

02:00:18Like you need something to challenge you.

02:00:19But if your actions are just putting you back in your comfort zone, what do you get?

02:00:25Like you, you're, you're setting yourself up to fail almost.

02:00:28Not only are you not growing, forget about that, but this thing that feels very innate of challenges and purpose of, of being a human being or whatever, whatever that may mean.

02:00:38It's different for everybody.

02:00:39If you don't have that, it's like, where do you think you're going?

02:00:43Like that's going to deteriorate your mental health almost.

02:00:46You're done.

02:00:46You've already done everything.

02:00:47And now you're just going to, you're, you're just done.

02:00:50You know, like a part of me doesn't understand why there are people who work on wall street that make fucking $80 million a year.

02:01:02And they work 80 hours a week still.

02:01:05And it's like, bro, you got fucking $250 million in the bank.

02:01:10Do something else.

02:01:11Like, but part of me does get it.

02:01:13Part of me does get why there is that.

02:01:16Cause it's like, I don't know that I have like a weird relationship with it because I do understand the feeling of like, it's not necessarily about the money anymore.

02:01:28But I also think that like a work-life balance is very important.

02:01:31I'm not working super hard to have $250 million.

02:01:33I don't care.

02:01:35I don't care about having $250 million.

02:01:36I want to enjoy my life.

02:01:39You know, like I, I don't want to like work my entire life and then be, and then the payoff is things that I could be doing now.

02:01:46Like you want to, you want to hang out with your friends.

02:01:48You want to, you know, see your family or spend time.

02:01:51You can, you can, you're going to sacrifice your entire life all these years to what the end goal is like, well, now I can sit back and relax and just enjoy my time.

02:02:01Brother, you can do it now.

02:02:02Have you ever heard the parable of the Mexican fisherman?

02:02:05You heard this?

02:02:06He's Mexican in this one.

02:02:08I thought he was from a different country.

02:02:09Honestly.

02:02:10Which fisherman is this?

02:02:12I don't know.

02:02:12It could have been, I don't, I don't know.

02:02:13Okay, an American investment banker was at a small pier on a small coastal town, village, when a small boat with just one fisherman docked.

02:02:21Inside the small boat was several large yellowfin tuna.

02:02:24The American complimented the Mexican on the quality of his fish and asked how long it took him to catch them.

02:02:28The Mexican replied, only a little while.

02:02:31The American then asked, why didn't you stay out longer and catch more fish?

02:02:34The Mexican said he had enough to support his family's immediate needs.

02:02:37The American then asked, but what do you do with the rest of your time?

02:02:40The Mexican fisherman said, I sleep late, fish a little.

02:02:43Play with my children, take siestas with my wife, Maria, and stroll into the village every evening, where I sip wine and play guitar with my amigos.

02:02:50I have a full and busy life.

02:02:51The American scoffed.

02:02:52I have an MBA from Harvard and can help you, he said.

02:02:55You should spend more time fishing.

02:02:57With the proceeds, buy a bigger boat.

02:02:58With the proceeds from the bigger boat, you could buy several boats, and eventually, you would have a fleet of fishing boats.

02:03:03Instead of selling your catch to a middleman, you could sell directly to the processor, and eventually open up your own cannery.

02:03:09You could control the product, processing, and distribution, he said.

02:03:12Of course, you would need to leave this small coastal fishing village and move to Mexico City, and then Los Angeles, and eventually to New York City, where you will run your expanding enterprise.

02:03:20The Mexican fisherman asked, but how long will all this take?

02:03:23To which the American replied, oh, 15 to 20 years or so.

02:03:27But what then, asked the Mexican.

02:03:29The American laughed and said, that's the best part.

02:03:31When the time was right, you would announce an IPO.

02:03:33You could sell your company stock to the public and become very rich.

02:03:36You would make millions.

02:03:37Millions?

02:03:38Then what?

02:03:39The American said, then you could retire, move to a small coastal fishing village where you could sleep late, fish a little, play with your kids, take siestas with your wife, and swole to the village in the evenings where you could sip wine and play guitar with your amigos.

02:03:50Life is often simpler than we make.

02:03:52Yeah, dude, I mean, that's great.

02:03:54That's exactly what I'm saying.

02:03:56Like, that's so true.

02:03:57Like, I think that it's tough.

02:03:59Like, a lot of people, sometimes their identity becomes their job.

02:04:03I'm very self-aware about that, that I don't want that.

02:04:08Especially, I think that would make me unlikable if my job and some sort of, like, the followers and doing live shows.

02:04:16And already, sometimes people are probably like, a person probably sucks.

02:04:19Like, they think they're the man or whatever.

02:04:21Like, I separate these things because they're completely different.

02:04:23I just want to enjoy my life.

02:04:26Like, I'm already, it's already good enough.

02:04:29That doesn't slow me down because I have passions and things that I want to accomplish.

02:04:34But I will never sacrifice the things that actually matter in my life.

02:04:39Like, I'm not going to miss a birthday.

02:04:41I was going to say, what matters?

02:04:45What matters is, what matters is making sure that I'm being a good person, dude.

02:04:52Like, honestly, like, I just want people, when I pass away, to be like, that was a good dude.

02:04:58And, like, that's pretty much the extent of it.

02:05:00Like, I just want that.

02:05:01And I, and I, ideally, that would come from, you know, the, like, everybody.

02:05:07I, I, I want to be as helpful as I can.

02:05:09I do want to make an impact in some sort of way.

02:05:12But I, I really just, like, I just want to be a good dude.

02:05:15And I, and I just want to earn things because I think that makes me feel good to, to know

02:05:23that I'm putting work in and, and trying to earn something and I'm getting things back from

02:05:27it.

02:05:28That's a, that feels like a really cool exchange, but I, I really just want to be a good dude.

02:05:31And, and I think there's also this, uh, this notion online where it's like, if you're,

02:05:39if you're 20 years old and you're not fucking dropshipping and you're not fucking like into

02:05:43crypto and fucking wearing blue tinted glasses that like, you're a fucking loser.

02:05:48Like, I don't think it's, your life isn't the Lambo, dude.

02:05:52This isn't the end all be all is like the Lambo, like that everyone's like, I'm going to get

02:05:57some money, then I'll buy a Lambo.

02:05:58It's like, you don't need to do that.

02:06:00Like, I do think, like, I don't want to say that, like, you know, some people who are

02:06:06very successful would just be like, oh, well, money isn't, well, won't make you happy.

02:06:10I think that's insane to say that.

02:06:12Like, of course it will make you happy.

02:06:14Having financial security is a massive weight off your shoulders.

02:06:19So that already is like, that trumps everything that like the argument of like, it won't make

02:06:24you happy.

02:06:24I get what people are saying when they say that it's not like you could buy your way to

02:06:28happiness.

02:06:28It's like, well, I bought a plane, I got cars and whatever.

02:06:30It's like, yeah, but you're still fucked up emotionally.

02:06:33Cause you haven't really spent time doing that and you haven't really seen your family.

02:06:36And, you know, you worked all this, you worked this long for what?

02:06:39For things for like, you know, uh, uh, the number in your bank account to be higher.

02:06:44You're like missing the point in my opinion, like me, I, I, like I said, I'm a very social

02:06:51dude.

02:06:52I like making new friends.

02:06:53I like learning new things.

02:06:54I like traveling and getting out in the world and putting myself in uncomfortable situations.

02:06:59That's the only way that I feel like I am growing and I'm obsessed with that.

02:07:02I'm obsessed with growth and just learning about what, what the world has to offer.

02:07:11Like, and everyone has something to offer, you know, like I, and I want, I wish I could

02:07:15know it all.

02:07:16I wish I could to, to, to meet everybody and have a conversation with them.

02:07:20And, you know, I'm the type of person that randomly, like I'll be in a deep conversation

02:07:27with just like a fucking stranger.

02:07:29Like, cause I, I enjoy that.

02:07:31I like hearing, I always tell, I always tell Greg, like one of my dream jobs is to be a

02:07:36bartender in like a slow pub, you know?

02:07:40So I could just like, you can get to know your regulars.

02:07:42And like, that just seems like a very like nice thing to, to, and, and not aesthetically.

02:07:50Like, I really think that it's a nice thing to be able to sit down and talk to someone and

02:07:55it like, feel that sense of community.

02:07:57Like that's the best dude.

02:07:59Like, that's the best.

02:08:00I saw a video recently on TikTok where this guy was like interviewing people and he found

02:08:05this old woman and she was talking about pubs and how they're like the greatest thing

02:08:11in the world and she was like, you just go to your local pub and she's like, I feel like

02:08:15people don't do this anymore.

02:08:16Like you go to your local pub and you know, you talk to the people in there about like

02:08:21your problems and at your job or your relationship and you talk to the bartender and they, sometimes

02:08:25they give advice and it's bad advice or good advice, but that sense of community, it's like

02:08:29a place you can go.

02:08:30Like I'm obsessed with stuff like that.

02:08:32Like, I love that.

02:08:33And I also love how there's different versions of that.

02:08:36You can never know everything, everything changes, everyone's different and everyone's

02:08:40right.

02:08:41I believe like everyone's right.

02:08:42If they believe they're right, then they are like, I think that I'm right for me, but

02:08:47not for you, if that makes sense.

02:08:50And I think that's sort of fascinating to me.

02:08:52So I, I want to get out there and I want to experience all that.

02:08:58And I want to feel uncomfortable because that again, that I get so much from that.

02:09:04It feels very rewarding.

02:09:05And I did make the mistake when, cause I wasn't always like that.

02:09:10I, I grew up in a neighborhood, uh, Astoria, Queens, where if everything that you want is

02:09:16there, basically, at least it was for me.

02:09:18And I had a lot of friends in the neighborhood and, you know, whatever.

02:09:22And I would barely even go into Manhattan to like, hang out or go to a bar.

02:09:27Like, it's just like, I'm just going to stay here, whatever.

02:09:28But something in me shifted.

02:09:29And I was like, I want to see more things.

02:09:32And once that started happening and I started traveling, I was like, like the first time

02:09:37that I, I took a flight from Paris to Mykonos and I was just looking out the window and it

02:09:44was like, oh my God, like the world is like massive, as stupid as this sounds, by the way,

02:09:49this was like seven years ago.

02:09:53Um, but I was like, the world is massive and there's so much out there that like, you can

02:09:59see pictures of it, but it's like the pictures aren't going to do it justice to like, get

02:10:02out there and see it.

02:10:04Like the world is so cool.

02:10:06And there's so many cool people.

02:10:08Like the idea, like a fantasy of just going to some random small town in Ireland and walking

02:10:17into a pub and making a friend is like the greatest thing in the world to me.

02:10:22And like, just, and like, now you're so lucky because you live in a time where like, you could

02:10:25keep in touch with that guy.

02:10:26If you wanted to, you know what I mean?

02:10:28Like, that's such a cool thing to me.

02:10:30It's like, now you got a friend in fucking Ireland across the water.

02:10:33Like, it's like, I don't know.

02:10:35Things like that are fascinating.

02:10:37I actually think that is the point.

02:10:38Like, that's the point.

02:10:40And the job is just so I can be able to do that.

02:10:43And I'm fortunate enough that right now I could do stuff like that.

02:10:46So I'm good.

02:10:48I just have to fulfill my personal, like need to want to create and also make an impact.

02:10:55Like, if I am given the privilege of being more successful than I am right now, I will give

02:11:06back more.

02:11:07Like, that is something that I want to do and something that's always been in me of like,

02:11:10giving back to people, making donations to charities and things like that.

02:11:14Like, I want to feel like I'm doing the right thing because I don't need all of it.

02:11:17I don't need all the money and I don't need that sort of thing.

02:11:20Like, I get a lot of joy out of helping people.

02:11:23And I get a lot of joy out of just like, of other people being happy.

02:11:26I love that.

02:11:27Like, I love being in a group of people and everyone's just super happy.

02:11:30But I did make the mistake at a time where I thought that everyone should want the things

02:11:34that I want, which is wrong.

02:11:37Not everyone needs to be like entrepreneurial and like chasing something and like follow

02:11:41your passion and do whatever, like find a thing.

02:11:43Like your job isn't your passion.

02:11:45Find something else and whatever.

02:11:47Not everyone is wired that way, which is the beauty of it too.

02:11:51That was like, then you become this person who's like, I want to save everyone.

02:11:56And I want to, and that's wrong, I think.

02:11:59And I've gotten to a point now where you, you know, like we were saying earlier, there are

02:12:03some people that are content, the fishermen, right?

02:12:08I was the fucking dude at Harvard.

02:12:12Harvard was never in the cards for a guy like me, but I was that guy where I was like, here's

02:12:18what we could do, you know, whatever.

02:12:19And they're just like, bro, I don't want to do that.

02:12:21You want to do that.

02:12:22And it's like, oh yeah.

02:12:24You know, like you can't force that on people either.

02:12:27So to make it easier, a very simplified version is like, make yourself happy.

02:12:32Don't do it in spite of anything.

02:12:33And you don't need everyone to do the thing that you're doing.

02:12:37Run your game.

02:12:38That's it.

02:12:38Run your race.

02:12:39And everyone else is running their race.

02:12:41But make sure that everyone around you is happy.

02:12:43Cause if like, that's the, the really the only thing, dude, if you're content with one

02:12:47fish a day, what the fuck am I going to say?

02:12:51If I'm not content with one fish a day, that sucks for me.

02:12:53I got to go out and fish more, but you're cool, bro.

02:12:55I'm kind of jealous of you then, you know, like, and just cause I have one, it doesn't

02:12:59mean anything at a certain point.

02:13:01If what I want out of life is to truly just, you know, be able to travel and, uh, see people

02:13:09and learn things and talk to people and have these types of conversations and I'm doing

02:13:13it.

02:13:14I got on a plane to get here, to have this conversation with you.

02:13:17I'm doing it.

02:13:19What am I going to be upset about?

02:13:21This is the thing that I wanted for so long and I'm doing it now.

02:13:24So like I'm playing with house money.

02:13:27So just realizing that also, and not just getting on the hamster wheel for the sake of getting

02:13:34on it.

02:13:35It's like, nothing's ever good enough or whatever, dude, it's not like free yourself up.

02:13:40If you're looser, I think that things it's easier to kind of get your job done.

02:13:44Also, if you're like real strict, like I got it, whatever we were talking about before,

02:13:47it's like, I need to be creative right now.

02:13:48Cause I need to make more money and then I can do this.

02:13:51And then, then I'll be, it's like, bro, just, just, just find what you're doing and just

02:13:56like, try to, you know, whatever.

02:13:59I'm fucking talking in circles now.

02:14:00This fucking new tonic is killing me.

02:14:03No, man, you're, uh, you're infectious.

02:14:06You're really infectious.

02:14:06I'm, I'm, I'm being serious.

02:14:07I'm being serious.

02:14:08I can see why you're successful.

02:14:09I can see why people follow you.

02:14:10I can see why, however many tens of thousands of people sold out Mads.

02:14:14and square garden to come and see you as well, you know, that level of self-belief that

02:14:22doesn't feel tyrannical, doesn't feel like it's, uh, overbearing or domineering or, or selfish.

02:14:30Like I have a good idea of what I like and I like what I like and I want to try and create

02:14:38a life that helps me to enjoy as much of that as possible is about as infectious of a philosophy

02:14:44as you can get.

02:14:45And I can totally see why you've been successful.

02:14:47Thank you, dude.

02:14:48And I, and I, I appreciate you saying that because sometimes, and I realize the way that I'm talking

02:14:52about it now, it almost sounds like, like I'm a freight train and it's like, I have this

02:14:57thing in my head and I have to do it my way and everyone get out of my way.

02:15:00It's not like that.

02:15:01Like I'm much softer than that.

02:15:03Like that goes on in here.

02:15:05And, but mostly I'm scared.

02:15:08Like mostly I'm, I'm scared and I'm like second guessing myself, but I like, I'm putting one

02:15:13foot in front of the other because I feel like I have to, because there's a voice in my head

02:15:16that, I mean, obviously I've, I've, I'm like anxious about things and I'm, and I'm scared

02:15:21of certain things or whatever.

02:15:22But there's a voice in my head that's so intense and it's so loud that like, yo, fucking do

02:15:27it.

02:15:27Like, don't be a coward, like do it.

02:15:29And like, it's so loud that I can't sort of ignore it, but that only exists in here.

02:15:33I'm not like a freight train.

02:15:35Like, I'm not like a, this, like when we're on set or something, or when we're just talking

02:15:39about ideas, like, no, no, no, we're going to do it this.

02:15:41Like, it's not like that.

02:15:42It's, it's more of like an internal belief thing.

02:15:46I had a conversation with a guy called David Dada.

02:15:48He wrote this super famous book in the nineties called the way of the superior man.

02:15:52And he's a coach, philosopher, spiritual guide for men and, and guys, especially that have

02:16:02lost their purpose a little bit and don't really know where they're going in life.

02:16:05And I did the first interview that he's done in a decade, a couple of weeks ago.

02:16:10And when I was doing the research to look at him, I went back to the start of his career.

02:16:14And this guy has had the most fucking eclectic career that you have ever heard of.

02:16:20He did quantum mechanics.

02:16:24Then he did pure mathematics.

02:16:25Then he worked on AI in the eighties.

02:16:28Then he ran a yoga ashram retreat for forever.

02:16:33Then he did this coaching thing.

02:16:35Then he did a family thing.

02:16:36Then he became an author.

02:16:37Then he went back and did more AI stuff.

02:16:39And he founded company, just bounced all over the place.

02:16:42And I asked him while we were talking, dude, I, I can't really.

02:16:48What are you read?

02:16:49I can't, I can't piece together.

02:16:51I can't weave the path of your life.

02:16:53Yeah.

02:16:54In a straight line.

02:16:56And he said, when I don't want to do something or when I'm called to change what I'm doing.

02:17:04Being out of alignment with that voice is so painful to me, physically painful to me.

02:17:10It feels like someone's wrenching my insides.

02:17:13I don't have any choice.

02:17:15So what from the outside looks like self-belief and bravery and single-mindedness from the inside is actually fear of pain.

02:17:26And the pain is me being out of alignment.

02:17:30And you sound like him.

02:17:32Yeah.

02:17:32You sound like that guy.

02:17:33The, the voice in my head is so loud that I, I can't not do it.

02:17:38I can't not do the thing because they're saying, don't be a coward.

02:17:42Go and do it.

02:17:42Go and chase your dreams.

02:17:43Yeah.

02:17:44And it's like, yo, if I, if I feel like I have, like one part of me feels like I have the potential.

02:17:48And I think that a lot of people see potential in themselves for certain things.

02:17:51Like, you know, I could do that or I can do this or whatever, but they get discouraged along the way.

02:17:55I, I never get discouraged because I have that where it's like, just keep going.

02:18:00Like, are you going to stop?

02:18:01Like, you can't stop.

02:18:03You believe it.

02:18:05Like, if you believe it, then it's like, it's those things like meet and it's like, but you believe it.

02:18:09Like, if I believe it, I have to keep going then because I believe it.

02:18:13I can't, like, I have to be, I have to see it through, you know, like it.

02:18:21Like, it's really tough for me to like, there are some things because there was a point in my life where I was very experimental too.

02:18:28Like, I'll, I'll try a bunch of different things and, and just, just to sort of see like creatively, I think that is helpful.

02:18:36Like, I, I don't really see a lot of merit in picking something and it's like, well, I have to do that now.

02:18:42Like, that's the thing that I, like, I think there is merit in realizing along that journey where your strengths are and it's okay to pivot.

02:18:51It's okay to pivot and, and do, you know, things that now make more sense that are resonating even harder.

02:18:56Cause there's no way you have it figured out on day one.

02:18:58Like, no matter what, you could plan all you want and you can do whatever, but it's never going to go the way that you think.

02:19:04So, I mean, that was, that's another thing too, that, you know, me and Greg have had multiple discussions about where creatively.

02:19:16People can get into a creative rut where they feel like I have to keep planning to perfect this.

02:19:25And I, and I don't think that's helpful like for anything.

02:19:29Like, I think that you can only learn by doing like trial by fire.

02:19:35Like, just put yourself out there.

02:19:36Like, you can plan a little bit.

02:19:38Give me an example.

02:19:42It's starting a podcast, even.

02:19:43If you're starting a podcast and you're like, I want to start a podcast.

02:19:46You have a loose idea.

02:19:47You have something that you want to do.

02:19:48Cool.

02:19:48Whatever.

02:19:49Like, dude, start, but you're going to spend three months being like, so here's the strategy where I'm going to have conversations with all these people and I'm really going to dial it in or whatever.

02:19:56You think you're not going to pivot?

02:19:58You think you got it right right now?

02:19:59You haven't even started.

02:20:00Like, you don't have it right.

02:20:01You need to start now though, because you're only going to learn those things.

02:20:04Did you not begin working on the live show a year before you even went out there thinking of the song that you were going to walk out to?

02:20:14That to me is like a different thing.

02:20:16So like what the shows were?

02:20:18No.

02:20:19Like those moments are like, I'm scoring something like a part of a movie of my life kind of.

02:20:27Like, that's what that kind of feels like of like, okay, that's the moment that I want to make happen.

02:20:35This is the thing that's motivating me right now.

02:20:36Like kind of how do we get there?

02:20:38Also, the action of like, okay, that's what we want.

02:20:43We want Radio City.

02:20:45It wasn't until after the first show that I looked at my agent.

02:20:50I was like, I want Radio City.

02:20:53And he's like, all right, I'll kind of work on it and we'll see if we can get it or whatever.

02:20:57It was after the first show.

02:20:57Who the fuck am I, by the way?

02:20:58That was crazy.

02:20:59I was on a high.

02:21:00I came off stage.

02:21:00I was like, that was sick.

02:21:01So I was like, yo, Radio City, book the fucking Yankee Stadium.

02:21:04I don't care.

02:21:05But, so yeah, it's like, I want to do that.

02:21:09I'm not ready for it, but it's like, book it over there.

02:21:12I'll get to it and we'll figure it out.

02:21:14I'm focused on, okay, I need to be better tomorrow or I need to be better at the next show or whatever.

02:21:18I'm like, we're going to get there eventually, but I'm not like planning and just being like.

02:21:24So I'll give you an example.

02:21:25So when we're starting the tour, right, it's a decision of like, should we go on tour?

02:21:33And then it's like, yes, we should.

02:21:35Action the next day.

02:21:37So an action would be like, we're talking to the agent.

02:21:41We're like, okay, what's the process for this thing?

02:21:43And going along the way, it's like, all right, whatever.

02:21:45Like, of course, then you have to get to planning what the show is going to be.

02:21:48I mean, there's no way you're going to walk out there and be like, well, I have no plan.

02:21:50Hello.

02:21:50Like, there is that sort of planning, but that's not necessarily what I'm talking about.

02:21:53I'm talking about stalling the process so that you can like perfect something that you can't perfect.

02:22:01It would be not booking the show until you'd written the show.

02:22:03Exactly.

02:22:04Yeah.

02:22:04And even then, it's like, what do you think?

02:22:06It's not going to change, dude.

02:22:08I mean, we had the conversation yesterday where your fucking show changed every five minutes or whatever the fuck.

02:22:11You were like, yeah, I changed up 40% of every show.

02:22:14Bailed out in between each show.

02:22:15Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:22:16I mean, but it's true.

02:22:17It's like the only way that you can really learn.

02:22:19Like, think about how long.

02:22:19If you were like, okay, we're going to do that, but we're going to really plan, really hone it in and blah, blah, blah.

02:22:25Like, you're just going to have to jump.

02:22:28It's a lot of that.

02:22:31Do you have a tattoo?

02:22:32Yeah, it says smile on the inside of my wrist.

02:22:35Okay.

02:22:36I get the same sort of feeling when I got tattoos.

02:22:38It's like, well, I want the tattoo.

02:22:40And now I'm sitting in the shop and I'm like, fuck.

02:22:43Like, shit, this thing is permanent or whatever.

02:22:45And I had the same feeling every time I got a tattoo where I'm like this.

02:22:49And then it's like, the guy's like, are you ready?

02:22:51And a part of me just goes like, fuck it.

02:22:54Like, maybe you'll hate it.

02:22:55Like, but whatever, fuck it.

02:22:57It's like that approach is like what you need is you're never going to be like super ready.

02:23:02You're never going to have it fully dialed in.

02:23:04Like, but you need to just do it and just suck at it.

02:23:07Because no matter what, it's going to suck.

02:23:10It's, if you're lucky, it's going to suck.

02:23:13If you're lucky.

02:23:14If you're, if you, if, if you can't look back on something you did years ago and you're like, that was great.

02:23:20Then you probably suck now because there's no one getting it right on the first try.

02:23:24Like you should suck because that means that you grew and you got better at something, but you have to start.

02:23:30Like, you're never going to plan your way out of not sucking.

02:23:32Like, you're going to look back embarrassed a little bit.

02:23:34You're going to look back and be like, that wasn't great.

02:23:37And also things change.

02:23:38You're going to have to adapt anyway.

02:23:40Just start.

02:23:41Like, just start, dude.

02:23:42Like, just suck at it.

02:23:44Just suck at it.

02:23:44But you're doing it.

02:23:45You're doing it.

02:23:46Make it your identity.

02:23:47Just do it.

02:23:48Like, just do it.

02:23:49If you want to be a rapper, dude, then be a rapper, be it.

02:23:52You can be it, you know, like, just do it then.

02:23:55No, you don't have to sell out a, a, a, a fucking venue to be a rapper.

02:23:59Bro, rap, just do it.

02:24:01Like, then you're a rapper.

02:24:02Like, make it your identity.

02:24:03When people think of your name, they're going to associate yourself with that.

02:24:06They're going to associate your name with like, yeah, that kid's a rapper.

02:24:08That's, that's what you want.

02:24:10Then you're it.

02:24:12Being successful at it.

02:24:13That's a different problem.

02:24:14That's a different problem for a different day.

02:24:15You're going to have to be good at it.

02:24:16You're going to have to care about it and all that fucking bullshit.

02:24:18But like, if you want to be something, dude, make the decision and do it.

02:24:22You can.

02:24:23Like, what you're worried about and the thing that stalls you is like, are other people going

02:24:27to think that, uh, that I'm good at this?

02:24:31Or how am I going to look?

02:24:32Am I going to look cringy?

02:24:33Am I going to, whatever?

02:24:34Like, get to the point where you're okay with that.

02:24:37Like, just, just believe in who you are, know who you are and be like, I don't care if people

02:24:43think I'm cringy.

02:24:44Like, of course people, people probably think that, but people in your comments probably

02:24:47are like, this kid's cringy, bro.

02:24:48Fuck this kid.

02:24:49Like, but whatever, bro.

02:24:50I don't care.

02:24:51I'm just, that's not why I'm doing it.

02:24:53Like, I, I, this, everything I'm saying feels so real to me.

02:24:57Like, this is not like a fake thing that I have.

02:25:02So I'm okay with people interpreting, interpreting it in a different way and thinking that it's

02:25:06for show or, or whatever.

02:25:08Like, it doesn't matter, bro, because I don't, one, I don't know you.

02:25:11And two, like, I have to live my life.

02:25:13I'm going to walk away from this thing.

02:25:14Like, even if you're looking at me right now and you're like, this kid's kind of an idiot

02:25:18and I don't agree with anything you're saying, bro, I don't care.

02:25:21I don't care because it's real to me and I have to live my life.

02:25:24It's my reality.

02:25:25So, like, it's, it's kind of, it's kind of like that.

02:25:28There has to be a balance though, to be fair.

02:25:30Because everything I'm saying, like, you can get yourself in trouble where it's like,

02:25:33I believe everything that I say and whatever.

02:25:35That's close to delusion.

02:25:36I, I only, it only, um, works and you're not a fucking brutal hang if you have checks

02:25:46and balances and you're very, very willing to take on criticism and you're very willing

02:25:52to listen as well.

02:25:53Because you can't just always be the one talking.

02:25:55You can't, because you're not going to learn anything.

02:25:57Like, if you're not giving someone the opportunity to talk or to teach you something, or you think

02:26:01they can't teach you anything, you're wrong.

02:26:04You're wrong.

02:26:05Because everybody can teach you something.

02:26:07Just shut up and listen sometimes.

02:26:09But then, like, if you can master those two things, it's very empowering to know that,

02:26:14like, oh man, I'm willing to be wrong.

02:26:15But I also, like, I believe in myself and my decisions, but I mean, that definitely could

02:26:20get me to a dead end.

02:26:21But I have to be okay with that.

02:26:23And I am, I am okay with that.

02:26:25Because I'm already grateful for what I have.

02:26:29Like, I'm already at the point where, like, this is good enough for me.

02:26:33I'm willing to hit the dead end.

02:26:34I was willing to hit the dead end fucking 10 years ago.

02:26:36Like, that's, that's the, the fact that I, I always feel like I have nothing to lose.

02:26:43I have nothing to lose.

02:26:44Like, day one, I felt like I had nothing to lose.

02:26:46I still feel like that now.

02:26:47Like, I could take a risk, whatever.

02:26:49What's going to happen?

02:26:51Cares.

02:26:52Or like, this is going to upset someone because you're not going to do this and that's going

02:26:55to upset someone.

02:26:56Or someone's like, yo, this is going to be a bad decision for your career.

02:26:59But if I don't feel like it's right for me, bro, I don't care.

02:27:03Take it then.

02:27:04Take my career.

02:27:04I don't care.

02:27:05Like, I have to stand on it like that.

02:27:09You know, like you, you have to, you have to do what's right for you.

02:27:14When I, when I first got signed to William Morris, I had a meeting and it was, I was young

02:27:20and I was on a big, it was a big table and there was a lot of people there.

02:27:24I've done one of those.

02:27:25And it was like, this lady's like, I'm your book agent.

02:27:27And I was like, don't read who, who's next?

02:27:28Like someone else, like, you know, um, but then they were like talking about stuff.

02:27:33And one of the things that I said in that meeting was, um, I was also like, didn't really know

02:27:39much.

02:27:39So I, the, the idea that I had in my head about agents was like, they're going to try and like

02:27:43take over your career and make you do stuff that you don't want to do or whatever, like

02:27:47for whatever reason.

02:27:48And I told them like, you know, there's a chance that you present a thousand things.

02:27:53And I say no to all of them.

02:27:54Like, I'm, I'm going to do the thing that I, that I want to do.

02:27:58And I, I wanted them to know that I wasn't intimidated by the moment, even if I was intimidated

02:28:03by the moment I was lying.

02:28:04Like, but I wanted them to know that like, you can't push me around.

02:28:07I don't know how much I believe that, but I was like, I, I didn't want them to think

02:28:11that it's like, we're, we're, we got it from here, kid type of thing.

02:28:14I was like, no, get the fuck off me.

02:28:16Like, I'm still going to do this thing.

02:28:17I will accept help, of course.

02:28:19And some, some, some sort of guidance, but it has to resonate with this thing that has

02:28:25gotten to me, like gotten me everywhere that I have gone.

02:28:29Like, it has to resonate with that.

02:28:30Like, I can't do something that doesn't hit there.

02:28:34I just refuse to do that.

02:28:35Whatever that means.

02:28:37If that means missing out on, which I've missed out on a ton of stuff, it's gotten me

02:28:40in trouble.

02:28:40I've definitely said no to things that I probably should have done.

02:28:44But whatever, it's fine.

02:28:47It's okay.

02:28:48I'm willing to lose.

02:28:49It's fine.

02:28:50But I, that's, that's the route I'm choosing to go.

02:28:53That I, I'm okay with losing.

02:28:55I'm okay with missing out on stuff.

02:28:59I'll learn from it.

02:29:01And maybe it takes a few tries to even learn from it.

02:29:03It's not like one thing.

02:29:05And then it's like, now I got it.

02:29:06I'm good.

02:29:06Like, no, it's like, it's a series of mistakes, but that's the point.

02:29:13I'm happy to make mistakes.

02:29:16Who the fuck is not making mistakes and is cool?

02:29:19Who's like, you know, you got nothing going on.

02:29:22You got, you got, you're not making mistakes.

02:29:24You're not taking fucking huge L's.

02:29:26Like, what are we talking about then, dude?

02:29:29No risks?

02:29:30No nothing?

02:29:31What is your day like, dude?

02:29:32Like, what is it?

02:29:33You're just going to write on post-its and sneeze?

02:29:35That's it?

02:29:36Give me something, George.

02:29:38You know, like, take risks.

02:29:39It's exciting.

02:29:40It's exciting to fail, dude.

02:29:42Like, it makes you a person.

02:29:44It gives you something, at least.

02:29:46But like, I don't know.

02:29:49Just, just fucking, I don't know, dude.

02:29:53I get very passionate about this, dude.

02:29:54Forget about it.

02:29:55You put a fucking glass of red wine in front of me, we'd be there for 10 hours.

02:29:58It'd be a wrap.

02:30:01I get it, man.

02:30:03What would you say to someone who struggles with their self-belief or self-assuredness?

02:30:10Every time that they try to tap into their gut instinct, they struggle.

02:30:14They can't really hear it.

02:30:15Or they're scared.

02:30:17What would you say?

02:30:23I think that's normal.

02:30:24I think it's normal to tap in, listen to it.

02:30:26It doesn't work out.

02:30:27And you're scared.

02:30:28And you're scared because it hasn't worked out in the past.

02:30:31Part of it.

02:30:32Keep listening.

02:30:33Just keep listening.

02:30:35And keep doing.

02:30:36If that's what's interesting to you.

02:30:37If you think it would fulfill you to be at a place eventually where your, your sort of

02:30:47end all be all is your intuition.

02:30:50That's something that you want.

02:30:51Just, all you got to do is listen and keep doing it.

02:30:54And just keep making the mistakes.

02:30:55I didn't get it right.

02:30:57I still, bro, I get this shit wrong all the time.

02:30:59I don't even know if what I'm saying right now is coherent.

02:31:03I'm just talking.

02:31:04Like, you know what I'm saying?

02:31:05Like, it's probably not.

02:31:06Don't laugh.

02:31:06So no, I know it's not.

02:31:08But I, like, you, you just, just lay it all out on the table.

02:31:12It's okay to be vulnerable.

02:31:13Like, whatever.

02:31:13Be, be cringe.

02:31:14Be whatever.

02:31:16But you get somewhere with that.

02:31:17At least it's real.

02:31:18Like, at least if you're being vulnerable, people know that.

02:31:22And it's real.

02:31:22You're taking a swing by doing that.

02:31:25I can come on this show and just say a bunch of things that I think you want to hear.

02:31:32I don't even know what you want to hear.

02:31:34But, like, I could, I could just do that.

02:31:36But, like, I don't get anything for that.

02:31:38Like, I'm trying right now.

02:31:40I'm trying right now.

02:31:42This is, but this is all, like, very real to me.

02:31:44Everything that I'm saying.

02:31:45It's like, this is very real to me.

02:31:48If it resonates with people who watch your show, that is, like, an incredible feeling for me.

02:31:56And if it doesn't, it's like, ah, it's just one of those things.

02:31:59I took a shot, you know, like, but it's real to me.

02:32:02I don't need them to think that, you know, I don't need it to resonate because it resonates with me and it works for me.

02:32:07And it may not work for everyone, which is totally fine.

02:32:10How does it feel to be having a conversation that's way more serious than the ones that you usually do when you go on podcasts?

02:32:16To get to talk about this stuff.

02:32:18I enjoy it.

02:32:19I mean, I, this is why, like, you know, I wanted to come on this show.

02:32:24I'll tell you, by the way, before I met you, I was invited by Spotify to go out to L.A.

02:32:30And they were like, oh, come to this thing.

02:32:32And I was like, okay, cool.

02:32:33Like, they wanted me to be on some fucking panel.

02:32:34And I was like, all right, cool.

02:32:35And then, and then I saw that you were on it.

02:32:38Like, two weeks prior to that, my brother sent a link of your John Bellion interview in my family's group chat.

02:32:47You've been friends with him for forever.

02:32:48With John.

02:32:49Yeah.

02:32:49Yeah.

02:32:50Very loose friends, but yeah.

02:32:52But, but they, they sent that link in there and like my whole family is like John Bellion fans.

02:32:59And my brother was like, you should go on this guy's show.

02:33:03Like, this would be like a cool thing for you to be on.

02:33:06And then two weeks later, I get the email that you're going to be on the panel.

02:33:08So immediately I'm like, I'm going to fucking talk to this dude.

02:33:12Like, then that's, this is when it starts, right?

02:33:14It starts where it's like, okay, I'm going to be on the panel with this guy.

02:33:19And I want to be on his show.

02:33:22What does it take to kind of get there?

02:33:25And I don't know.

02:33:27I don't know you.

02:33:29And like, at that point, like, I don't know you.

02:33:31I've never talked to you or whatever.

02:33:32So you could, I could have just been like, I was kind of a fucking asshole.

02:33:34Like, whatever.

02:33:34I don't want to be on the show anyway.

02:33:36I don't care.

02:33:37But like, we meet and we immediately like have this report.

02:33:40I'm like, this is great.

02:33:41And, and then the next day I saw you at the other fucking thing.

02:33:44And then now I'm sitting here.

02:33:48That feeling is incredibly validating.

02:33:51And it's enough for me to believe in the, the intuition and the energy and that feeling of like,

02:33:56just follow your gut and do those things.

02:33:58Say yes to shit.

02:33:59Put yourself in a situation where you could get like lucky in a way and get this opportunity.

02:34:04Because I can see that as like this.

02:34:08Some people could look at this as like, you got lucky, but I'm, I'm open to that.

02:34:14Like I'm putting myself in situations where I could potentially get lucky.

02:34:18I see luck as not a magical thing, but just opportunity that you took advantage of.

02:34:24That looks like luck because the chances of you being on that panel are, I don't, I don't

02:34:29even know the fucking chances, but it was there.

02:34:32And I could either do nothing because there was other people on there.

02:34:38They're not sitting here today.

02:34:40Like I'm sitting here today.

02:34:42And it was because I was like sort of intentional about that.

02:34:46I wanted that.

02:34:47I wasn't going to be like, Hey buddy, can I be on your fucking show?

02:34:49But like, how do you get to this point that you like, you want to connect with someone?

02:34:55You think that this would be a good fit and then it ends up being so.

02:34:59And now I'm sitting here like that is incredibly validating.

02:35:02And again, that's enough for me to be like, this is how you get things done.

02:35:05Just, just, just be open to the idea, dude.

02:35:08Like just be prepared for your opportunities.

02:35:10And then it looks like luck.

02:35:12But if I went there and we never spoke or I was too shy to speak to you, I felt like,

02:35:16oh, he doesn't want to like fucking me.

02:35:17Like he has fucking Luke Holmes and like these very famous people on his show.

02:35:21He's not going to interview me, bro.

02:35:22Me of all people.

02:35:23Like if I did that to myself and got in my own way, then I'm not sitting here and we're

02:35:30not having this conversation.

02:35:32Get out of your way, dude.

02:35:34Like just, just believe, the only thing that you need is like belief that it could happen.

02:35:38That was enough for me to be like, well, I'm going to talk to him.

02:35:41He's just a little fucking guy, you know, like I'm just, you know, like, but if you get

02:35:44in your own way like that, you're closing yourself off.

02:35:47You don't have the opportunity for people to be like, oh, you got lucky or like, you know,

02:35:50whatever the fuck, like you're closing yourself off to opportunities.

02:35:53If you're putting, if you're getting in your own way, like just get out, like even getting

02:35:58out of your own way will result in a lot.

02:36:03Opportunities pop up.

02:36:04You'd be surprised of how they do that.

02:36:06Just say yes, dude.

02:36:08Just say yes to shit.

02:36:09It's exciting.

02:36:10Once you, once it happens to you, it's very exciting and it doesn't happen all the time,

02:36:16but it will happen.

02:36:17Like I say yes to shit.

02:36:19I mean, you can say, I mean, I said yes to shit for years and nothing ever happened with

02:36:22that.

02:36:22And then once things start happening, then it kind of feels like you met this person and

02:36:25then you met that person or whatever.

02:36:26And like, you know, the networking aspect of that, bro, just be a good dude.

02:36:32I believe that, or at least the people that I want to be around, if you're a good guy,

02:36:36they want to, they like you.

02:36:37They want to root for you.

02:36:38And it's like, I just want to, I just want to be that.

02:36:40I want to meet people.

02:36:41They think I'm a good guy.

02:36:42And it's like, well, I'm going to remember that.

02:36:43I like that kid.

02:36:44You know, I like the thing that he believes or the things that he says or whatever the

02:36:48fuck, you know?

02:36:48And I respect the thing that he does.

02:36:50I, I want to be around people that I respect, that I like, that I think are good people.

02:36:54I won't, I won't surround myself with people that I think are like fucked, that are like

02:36:59weird and like, do like bad shit.

02:37:02Like, I'm not covering for you, dude.

02:37:03Like, you know, like, I'm not like, I want you to be a good person because that's what

02:37:07I'm on.

02:37:08That's what I'm, that's what I'm about.

02:37:10Like, I don't, I don't want to be around people that I feel like are, are negative or like

02:37:16trying to hurt people or like, whatever.

02:37:18Like, I'm not about that at all.

02:37:19Like, I'm just trying to be a good dude and I want that mutual respect from people and that's

02:37:25it.

02:37:26Just simplify it, probably get out of your way.

02:37:30I'm talking to myself, by the way, because I did that for years, did it for years, like

02:37:34getting in my own way, overthinking, nope, not good enough.

02:37:37The example that I just gave you, I've done that numerous times of being like, why would

02:37:42they talk to me, bro?

02:37:42Like, why?

02:37:43And whatever.

02:37:43And like, who knows what could have happened with that?

02:37:46I refuse to do that now.

02:37:48I refuse to do that.

02:37:50What do you do when that fear comes up?

02:37:53Just like, don't be a bitch.

02:37:55Like, stop.

02:37:56Like, what's the reason?

02:37:57Like, what's the actual reason?

02:37:59Like, what are you afraid of?

02:38:01Like, if, if it doesn't work out, you're in the same spot you are now.

02:38:07Like, how is it actually scary?

02:38:08When you think about it in that way, like, what is scary about that?

02:38:12You either open a door and there's an opportunity or there's nothing.

02:38:15Shut the door.

02:38:15You're good.

02:38:16That's it.

02:38:17That's all it is.

02:38:18Like, you're opening doors.

02:38:19You open a door.

02:38:20There's an opportunity.

02:38:20Oh, wow.

02:38:21That's great.

02:38:21That's what I wanted.

02:38:22There's nothing there.

02:38:22You close the door.

02:38:23What the fuck happened?

02:38:23Nothing.

02:38:24It's just, it's neutral.

02:38:26The fear is like, it actually can put you at this like insane disadvantage in your life

02:38:33if you get in your own way, because like the opportunities, you're closing yourself off

02:38:38to them.

02:38:39You need opportunities.

02:38:40You need help from people and you need to be like collaborative and, but you also need

02:38:46to be confident and assertive in certain ways and kind of like put your foot in the door,

02:38:53you know?

02:38:53And like, sometimes people will slowly shut a door.

02:38:56I'm on doors today, like crazy, by the way, but someone would slowly shut a door and you

02:38:59got to stick your foot in and like, let it hit your foot and just kind of like, you got

02:39:05it.

02:39:05Sometimes you got to do that.

02:39:06You can't just like stand there and let someone slowly shut the door in your face.

02:39:09Like be assertive, like know who you are.

02:39:13That is the most important thing.

02:39:14Know who you are.

02:39:15Be confident in who you are and really believe, really believe yourself, but be humble about

02:39:21it.

02:39:21Like believe, start a fire in yourself and be like, I'm very capable, but also like you

02:39:26have to be a humble person.

02:39:26You have to be likable and you're not the most important person in the world.

02:39:30Like be a good guy too, but be assertive, put yourself out there.

02:39:36It's actually a lot of fun.

02:39:38And when you get used to failing a lot, it's just, it's, that is funny.

02:39:42That even helps me even more than probably shit working out.

02:39:45Honestly, things that work out now, like that probably plays against me.

02:39:49Like now the more success, the more unrelatable you become.

02:39:51Like I'd rather fail at this point.

02:39:53It gives me something to talk about, you know?

02:39:56So either way, it's a positive.

02:39:59You fail, you got a funny story.

02:40:01If it works out, you got the thing you wanted.

02:40:04You're the man, dude.

02:40:05Honestly, you're one of a kind.

02:40:06Really one of a kind.

02:40:07I'm very, very glad that you decided to stalk me.

02:40:08Jeez, haven't you say that?

02:40:10Like it's crazy.

02:40:11I'm glad that you decided to stalk me to LA.

02:40:13I really am.

02:40:14First of all, I was invited for, I don't even know if that's true, but.

02:40:20It's, um, it's very gravitational being around you.

02:40:30Yeah.

02:40:31Like very electric being around you.

02:40:32And I can see why you've got this rabid support.

02:40:37It's like unbelievable energy.

02:40:41It's like very, very compelling.

02:40:43So I'm just fired up now that we're friends and I get to watch you go and do the fucking

02:40:49stuff.

02:40:50You've got cool things coming up over the next couple of years.

02:40:53And that's, it's a sad, like fucking Bellion's doing, uh, Red Rocks, right?

02:40:58Later this year.

02:40:59And there's a difference between seeing someone's stuff online, which I hadn't.

02:41:04I hadn't seen your stuff.

02:41:06Had you seen my stuff before Bellion?

02:41:08Yeah, dude, you're fucking everywhere.

02:41:09What are you talking about?

02:41:09Sorry about that.

02:41:11Well, don't forget.

02:41:11Had you seen my top three podcasts?

02:41:13But don't forget the fucking headlights, right?

02:41:15Yeah.

02:41:16You know, the Venn diagram and you don't watch that much YouTube and you don't spend that

02:41:18much time on podcast.

02:41:19Hey.

02:41:20Well, I don't, I spend time, but I don't like go back to the same thing is what I mean.

02:41:24Right.

02:41:24Okay.

02:41:25Okay.

02:41:25I'm scrolling.

02:41:26Uh, the fact that I got to know John and then I get to see him do a thing and I get to

02:41:34like root for my boy.

02:41:35Yeah.

02:41:36One of the greatest gifts is to become friends with someone that you're a fan of.

02:41:43Yeah.

02:41:43Or to become a fan of someone that you're friends with.

02:41:45And then you get, it's 10 times better to go and watch someone or to see one of your friends.

02:41:53So George, big nose sneezes a lot, is writing a book at the moment.

02:41:57And then that thing, I'm watching this sucker unfold one sentence per day, right?

02:42:03Like slowly being crafted and I'm hearing him talk about it and I'm giving him a, oh,

02:42:07I don't really like that.

02:42:09And then that thing's going to come out.

02:42:11And when I read it, it's going to be the best book that I've ever read because I'm going to

02:42:15love the person that did it.

02:42:17And when Bellion gets to do Red Rocks, I'm going to be like, that's kind of my fucking boy.

02:42:22Yeah.

02:42:23Like that's my boy doing that.

02:42:24And that's fucking like, it shows amazing and rah, rah, rah.

02:42:26And then the same thing for you.

02:42:28I'm really, really fucking glad that you reached out and I think that you're awesome.

02:42:31And it's, it's sick to have you here.

02:42:33Thank you, dude.

02:42:34I really do appreciate like this conversation.

02:42:37Like I don't get to do it often, like on camera or whatever.

02:42:41Um, but I do ramble quite often with my friends.

02:42:45Well, you rambled when you, when you get fucking yapping, it's, it goes in a good direction.

02:42:53And, uh, that's it, man.

02:42:56We need to do this again.

02:42:57Yeah.

02:42:58That's it.

02:42:58Where should people go to check out everything you do?

02:43:00Uh, you can go follow me at Joe Santagato.

02:43:02Good luck spelling it.

02:43:03Um, Josh Pepino, Josh Pepino, Pepino, where did P come from now?

02:43:08I don't know.

02:43:08It is what it is.

02:43:09It's getting it worse.

02:43:10Uh, and go in the basement yard, uh, is the podcast.

02:43:13So go check that out everywhere.

02:43:14Sick.

02:43:15All right.

02:43:15See you next time, everyone.

02:43:17Dude.

02:43:18Poor fucking man.

02:43:20I was so sick.

02:43:23Congratulations.

02:43:24You made it to the end of a full podcast episode.

02:43:27You are not so TikTok brain that you've completely dissolved into nothingness.

02:43:31Why not watch another one?

02:43:33Right.

02:43:35Go on.

02:43:36Press it.

Key Takeaway

Success as a creator stems from obsessing over authentic, high-quality execution and building a deeply loyal fan base rather than chasing superficial growth or imitating existing models.

Highlights

One of the top five Patreon channels in the world, the podcast achieves high-level fan support that exceeds its total viewership metrics.
The Basement Yard podcast consistently sells out live shows, including Madison Square Garden, due to a highly engaged audience that maintains a nearly religious level of support.
High-performing creative results require dotting every 'i' and crossing every 't' because extraordinary outcomes necessitate intense collaboration and obsessive preparation.
A foundational strategy for growth is maintaining absolute authenticity, as it remains the single most effective competitive advantage when everyone else is merely imitating established creators.
Effective decision-making requires separating emotional impulses from rational assessment, allowing individuals to maintain a steady path even when facing massive opportunities.

Timeline

Scaling a Massive Independent Podcast

The podcast sustains a top-five global Patreon ranking despite viewership numbers that do not traditionally match that level of monetization.
Live show success, including selling out Madison Square Garden, is driven by an intense, almost religious level of support from the audience.
Fan interaction feels like a personal relationship rather than a standard parasocial dynamic, with comments focused on pride in the creator's growth.

The discussion covers the disconnect between standard metrics and actual audience support. While the creator remains humble about the scale of the podcast, the data shows an extremely loyal base that converts into paying members at an industry-leading rate. The focus is on the emotional connection forged through consistency and authenticity, which transcends the typical fan-creator distance.

The Philosophy of Unstoppable Self-Belief

True self-belief means being realistic about one's current standing while remaining entirely unrealistic about future potential.
Obsession acts as a force that compels action, distinct from discipline or motivation, as it makes stopping impossible.
Collaboration with critical partners, like those who provide honest feedback on scripts, is essential for achieving extraordinary results.

The focus shifts to the internal drivers of high performance. Rather than simple positive affirmations, the strategy is grounded in an honest assessment of current limitations paired with an unshakable conviction in future capability. The creator details the necessity of welcoming criticism to avoid staying in a comfort zone and to push the quality of creative output.

Authenticity as a Competitive Advantage

Authenticity acts as the primary differentiator in a crowded content landscape where most creators simply imitate established formulas.
Being the only version of oneself provides a unique value proposition that cannot be replicated by competitors copying successful channels.
Growth and decision-making depend on the willingness to admit when an idea is wrong and to take full responsibility for outcomes.

The conversation explores why copying successful creators, such as Mr. Beast, ultimately fails for others. Because those creators are already performing their own version of success, imitation lacks the authenticity that anchors a unique brand. True growth occurs when individuals take full ownership of their failures and use them as data points to pivot effectively.

The Power of High-Conviction Decisions

Multitasking is ineffective for creative work, which requires intense focus and the ability to act on ideas the moment they arise.
Waking up and beginning work within 30 seconds can unlock flow states by leveraging the brain's transition between sleep and wakefulness.
Operating with high conviction is vastly superior to low-conviction approaches, even when the high-conviction path leads to failure, because it produces tangible learning.

The final section examines how to protect creative energy while balancing business demands. By prioritizing excitement and gut intuition over rigid long-term planning, the creator maintains a leaner, more responsive organization. The discussion emphasizes that the pain of being out of alignment with one's internal voice is a stronger motivator than external metrics like money.

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