Transcript
00:00:00People of the UK and Ireland, if you are coming to see me on tour, I want to hear from you. I want
00:00:04to know what problems you're dealing with, your worst first date, and any questions that you've
00:00:08got for me. And I will be bringing some of you up on stage to talk about it. So if you're coming
00:00:12to see me on tour this October, go to chriswilliamson.live slash stories, submit them, and
00:00:17I might see you with a mic in front of your face very soon. chriswilliamson.live slash stories.
00:00:23Everyone, tell me what peptides you're on. That's all I care about.
00:00:26Let's go. Which day of the week? Which time of the day? I view peptides as a little bit
00:00:36more of like a condiment that's in your refrigerator that you might use for a specific reason and
00:00:41don't follow an exact protocol every day. For example, when I travel, I use thymus and alpha-1,
00:00:49which I'm on right now, as you can tell, for the immune system.
00:00:53Yeah. I keep around BPC-157 and TB-500 for injuries. I run a couple of times a year a
00:01:01tessamaryllin, ipamaryllin with CJC-1295 cycle for growth hormone. And those are the biggies.
00:01:12Oh, C-Max and C-Link, intranasal. C-Max is a little bit more of like a cognition,
00:01:17brain-derived neurotrophic factor booster. And then C-Link is more of like an anxiolytic.
00:01:23So, kind of an upper downer. It's like my version of Valium caffeine. Yeah.
00:01:29What he said. Pretty much that protocol, I agree with. And I tell everyone, the answer's not at the
00:01:35bottom of a peptide bottle, like diet, lifestyle, nutrition, living by the principles first. These
00:01:41are like additives that can help optimize your health, especially with our food sources and how
00:01:46stripped they are of the nutrients. The only compounds that I think I take that you didn't
00:01:51discusses IGF-LR3. I don't know if you've ever messed with that. Insulin growth factor-LR3.
00:01:57So, a lot of people take growth hormone historically, but the reason they were taking
00:02:00growth hormone was in an effort to get all the therapeutic benefits that growth hormone gives
00:02:05you when it converts to IGF. And so, if you were to use the peptide IGF, you get all the benefits of
00:02:10growth hormone, but with a much better safety profile that will not impact your natural growth
00:02:15hormone levels. And so, that's why I'm a huge fan of IGF.
00:02:18Does it have like a similar, like pure HGH, you get a little bit of almost like a glucocorticoid
00:02:26response where there's a surge in cortisol, your resting glucose tends to be higher. A lot of people
00:02:32don't sleep as well at night because it goes on a downstream pathway. Do you skip out a lot of that?
00:02:37Yeah, you do skip out a lot of that, but bigger than that is you're not impacting your natural
00:02:41growth levels. So, you know, you're still in your 40s. I'm in my 40s, 46. So, I want to be cognizant of
00:02:46that. But anytime I come off, like, so I'll go on for four to six weeks and then I, when I come off,
00:02:51I'll cycle on to CJC and some of the other things you discussed just to boost my natural growth hormone
00:02:57levels. So, I have the simplest protocol here, sounds like. Let's go.
00:02:59I will microdose GLP-1 once in a while for inflammation. I think there's going to be new
00:03:06emerging research. I was actually at the Protein Working Group Summit 3.0 and that is like the Oscars
00:03:15for nerds and protein scientists. I just, invitation only, 100 of the finest scientists that are doing
00:03:22protein research. And there were topics of discussion, like what are the challenges that we face? But more
00:03:28importantly, I sat with Arnie Astrup, who discovered GLP-1's impact on appetite. So, he was essentially
00:03:36responsible for what we now have as this obesity, now not called obesity, sarcopenic epidemic,
00:03:45GLP-1 use, which again, I am totally for GLP-1s, but that is my staff. Cool. You said you're microdosing
00:03:51it for inflammation? Yes. And there is going to be new emerging research that it is going to have an
00:03:56impact on cancer. They believe that low-dose GLP-1, we don't totally know. He believes it's through
00:04:04inflammation. And this was the guy who discovered GLP-1's effect on appetite.
00:04:09How do you know that it's not just a reduction in the turnover of food?
00:04:12We don't.
00:04:12Right.
00:04:13We don't.
00:04:13So, all of this could just be people eating less.
00:04:15Eating less cancer-causing food.
00:04:16It could be. It could be. But that remains to be seen.
00:04:18Well, and the second leading cause of cancer, well, age is the leading cause. Second to that is obesity.
00:04:24And then, so, if you were able to address aging and obesity, then you're naturally going to reduce
00:04:30the risk of cancer. So, I think there's definitely going to be a correlation to the weight loss.
00:04:37Obesity is one of the biggest risk factors for cancer.
00:04:39Inflammation.
00:04:40Smoking.
00:04:41Inflammation independent of obesity as well. Just eating. How many bros do you know
00:04:46that are relatively lean, but they're turning over tons of sugar?
00:04:49They're just training it out of them, or they're still young, their metabolism's still kicking.
00:04:52Right. That's one of the possible benefits of intermittent fasting is autophagy and giving that
00:04:56reactive oxygen species production a break.
00:04:59Yes.
00:04:59I have microdosed with GLPs before on flight days.
00:05:04There's something about it just like quiet food noise. You don't really have access to great food.
00:05:08It's like you don't want to eat on a plane.
00:05:09Anyways, I don't want to be distracted by food or think about it. I'm sedentary anyways for most of the days.
00:05:14So even if I could eat, it's probably not the best scenario for me to be eating.
00:05:18And so when I say microdose, like I don't know how much you mean, but I'm talking like 0.25.
00:05:24And to contextualize that, like a normal dose would be 8, 10, 12 milligrams.
00:05:28It's crazy that you see that because what you're saying is what we've seen anecdotally, like, because we're at over 70,000 patients now in the patient population as a whole at ways to well.
00:05:40And a lot of the patients are now doing microdose GLP-1s, and they say that they see a big difference in their inflammation.
00:05:46And I think that that is what we're going to find more.
00:05:49And I think the bigger point that we have to make is that they're here to stay, whereas other medications, there's never been anything nearly as revolutionary.
00:05:58And, you know, in the 90s when they had the food guide pyramid and then all of a sudden obesity hit?
00:06:02Yeah.
00:06:03We are at the precipice of trading obesity for sarcopenia right now.
00:06:08What's sarcopenia for the people that don't know?
00:06:10We're going from people who are too big to people who are too frail.
00:06:12Decrease in muscle mass and strength.
00:06:14And we've seen it, right?
00:06:15Your parents all of a sudden get frail.
00:06:16Your grandparents get frail.
00:06:18And if we're not careful, we're going to miss the early warning signs, which I think that we're seeing with people out in Hollywood.
00:06:27We're just seeing a transformation.
00:06:28You nailed it in your book.
00:06:29I read your book and you talked about where it's not necessarily that we're under muscled.
00:06:34We're also under muscled.
00:06:36It's not just that we're a beast.
00:06:38We are under muscle.
00:06:39That's right.
00:06:39And if we can maintain lean muscle mass and bone marrow density as we age, it is one of the leading indicators on healthspan and longevity.
00:06:47What are some biohacks or some interventions that you use or believe in, but you don't have any data to support?
00:06:56What are some of the things that you're like, I fucking love this and I know that it works for me?
00:07:00The doctor in the corner is shaking her head.
00:07:02We'll give it to the fucking bro scientists.
00:07:04Let's go bro science.
00:07:06Biocharger.
00:07:06Have you ever seen this?
00:07:07Oh my God, I have one.
00:07:08Borrowed one from Tony Robbins.
00:07:10Oh, I have one.
00:07:11The doctor backs me up.
00:07:12Wait, no, I don't.
00:07:13I don't.
00:07:13I don't.
00:07:14So I saved a patient's life and she said, pick any piece of equipment that you want.
00:07:26And she keeps talking about this biocharger.
00:07:28She's like, my sex drive is up.
00:07:31It's like the best thing ever.
00:07:32I'm like, okay, well, I already have a sauna.
00:07:34I already have a cold plunge.
00:07:35What about the biochargers?
00:07:37Yeah, but so I have a biocharger.
00:07:40How did you find it?
00:07:41Great.
00:07:41My husband, he's like, I feel this.
00:07:43I mean, who knows?
00:07:44But.
00:07:44It does red light.
00:07:46But does it work?
00:07:47It's like, I don't know if this works.
00:07:48Radio frequencies based on a Tesla coil surrounded by 12 noble gases in twos.
00:07:52And there's zero clinical data, but.
00:07:54But you can hold a cool fucking lightsaber.
00:07:57What did you think of it when you used it?
00:07:59I think a parasite recipe, like an insomnia recipe.
00:08:02Like a raisin brand.
00:08:03You think it works.
00:08:03Okay.
00:08:04The raisin brand recipe.
00:08:05What is that?
00:08:05Works.
00:08:06For what?
00:08:07For constipation.
00:08:08If you're constipated, been traveling, whatever, you sit in front of the raisin brand recipe
00:08:12which lasts 12 minutes and you literally have like a turtle head.
00:08:15I want to hear what's the experience with Chris.
00:08:18I lost my research on it.
00:08:19I went to Tony Robbins' house.
00:08:22He said, he's got one in every room in his house.
00:08:25Apparently, I don't know why.
00:08:26And I got lent one for a month or so.
00:08:30I noticed no difference.
00:08:32Did you use it?
00:08:33Wait, did you use it though?
00:08:34Consistently, semi-consistently.
00:08:36He didn't use it.
00:08:36You didn't use it.
00:08:36But you put your phone near it and your phone starts fucking glitching out.
00:08:40Wait, but did you use it?
00:08:41How often did you use it?
00:08:42I don't know.
00:08:43Oh, you didn't?
00:08:44If I'm supposed to use it.
00:08:45Okay, wait.
00:08:46I have two other, I have two things.
00:08:48Okay.
00:08:48And then I've got one more.
00:08:50Oh, you've got millions.
00:08:50You might know more about this machine.
00:08:53So there's something, and you probably know way more about this than I do, but I got lent
00:08:59a windback machine.
00:09:00Have you ever seen that?
00:09:01It's like some tech car therapy.
00:09:03Do you know what that is?
00:09:03I don't know what both of those words are going to mean.
00:09:05Okay.
00:09:05Exciting.
00:09:06I don't know.
00:09:06And it's, so you don't know what it is.
00:09:08I don't know what it is either.
00:09:08But what is it?
00:09:09Well, it seems like it has some, it's like not quite EMS, but it has some high radio frequency.
00:09:17It is, but it's not exactly.
00:09:19And it's called tech car therapy.
00:09:21And what do you do?
00:09:22It's patches?
00:09:23So there's patches, but I've been using it for my hamstring.
00:09:26And it seems to-
00:09:26Does it have like a controller that's producing electricity?
00:09:29It does.
00:09:29It has this, yes.
00:09:31And I was hoping that you would tell me exactly how it works, but it seems to do tissue healing.
00:09:36I haven't seen good US data on it.
00:09:38I think that feeling better has to work somehow, and it's not a stim device.
00:09:44Yeah.
00:09:44Some kind of technology.
00:09:45I do not know.
00:09:46If someone could Google it and see exactly what frequency.
00:09:51I'll send, again.
00:09:52Jared can look it up.
00:09:53What's it called?
00:09:53EMS?
00:09:54No, it's called a windback.
00:09:56Windback?
00:09:56Windback.
00:09:57Yeah.
00:09:57Pull it up and see what they're actually saying that it does.
00:10:00I might have seen something like it before.
00:10:04And it localizes to where the pain is, which is really weird.
00:10:07Yeah.
00:10:07The Roxieva lamp.
00:10:08Have you seen this one?
00:10:09No.
00:10:10Okay.
00:10:10So it's a sound lounge that vibrates, like a vibroacoustic bed that you lay on.
00:10:13That sounds cool.
00:10:14And then it's a lamp.
00:10:15The lamp has headphones, so it's like an AV cable.
00:10:19One side is going to the vibroacoustic bed.
00:10:21The other side is going to the headphones.
00:10:22And then there's like 100 different sessions ranging from five minutes to 60 minutes that are like blast off to the moon psychedelic.
00:10:30Like full-on mushroom LSD-like trip, depending on what you choose with zero biological payback.
00:10:38As far as you actually needing to swallow a substance or put anything under your tongue.
00:10:42You lay there.
00:10:43You put on the headphones.
00:10:44You flip it on.
00:10:45You close your eyes.
00:10:46And it whisks you off to another plant.
00:10:48And it works.
00:10:49What is it called?
00:10:49Wait, what is it called?
00:10:50So it's like, if we were to talk about the proposed neural benefit, it would be based on what's called light sound entrainment, meaning shifting you into different brainwaves based on the light and the sound.
00:11:01It's called a Roxieva.
00:11:03It's similar to a shift wave.
00:11:04There is a session on there.
00:11:05It is like a shift wave, but imagine if the shift wave didn't just have sound.
00:11:10Because the shift wave is super cool for people listening or watching.
00:11:13It vibrates pretty powerfully.
00:11:15It doesn't just vibrate.
00:11:16It fucking shakes the roof.
00:11:17It's lined with nose.
00:11:19I've got one at the house.
00:11:20And the cool part is it will guide you through breathwork sessions.
00:11:24And specifically, like the breath holds, you can go like 25% longer just based on the distraction of the vibrating chair.
00:11:31And you're wearing a fingertip monitor for HRV, and your HRV climbs through the roof while you're doing this thing.
00:11:39Imagine that plus flickering light.
00:11:43That's also designed to just like whisk you off into a completely different state.
00:11:46There's a session called Rebirth, and they actually recorded like whooshing sounds in mom's womb and the fetal heartbeats.
00:11:55And you put on the headphones, you close your eyes, you lay under this thing,
00:12:00and it feels like you're just like primally being whisked back into this like fetal state.
00:12:05And you lay there for 45 minutes.
00:12:07And sometimes you fall asleep.
00:12:08You're in and out of consciousness.
00:12:10And then the last five minutes, you get burst.
00:12:13And the music crescendos.
00:12:15And all of a sudden, like everything starts beating.
00:12:18And the lights get brighter.
00:12:19And your heart rate speeds up.
00:12:21And you get this dump of adrenaline.
00:12:23And then you're just like out.
00:12:25And then everything goes dark.
00:12:26And you sit up from it.
00:12:27And you just feel like you could go conquer the world.
00:12:312 p.m. in the afternoon.
00:12:32That's fucking cool.
00:12:33Wow.
00:12:33I was so into that story.
00:12:33It's pretty cool.
00:12:34That's fucking cool.
00:12:35Does it work?
00:12:36If you use, I mean.
00:12:37I've used the shift wave.
00:12:38The shift wave's not as comprehensive as that.
00:12:41There was an interesting thing around the sounds from Mother's Womb.
00:12:45I had Stephen Porges on.
00:12:46The polyvagal theory guy.
00:12:48Oh, very interesting.
00:12:49And he came up with the Safe and Sound Protocol, SSP.
00:12:52Are you familiar with that?
00:12:53So this is a mode of nervous system re-entrainment.
00:13:00And it's a combination of kind of meditation with.
00:13:04You actually have a facilitator who is halfway between mantra, meditation, psychotherapy.
00:13:11and sound wave work, I guess, and breath work.
00:13:18And one of the things that he taught me, which is fucking fascinating,
00:13:22the soft, gentle, reassuring sounds that mothers give to their kids
00:13:26is the frequency in which the Safe and Sound Protocol works as well.
00:13:31One of the weird things is that's this.
00:13:32You mean the same like sound frequency?
00:13:34Yes.
00:13:34Like the tone?
00:13:35Yes.
00:13:35So interesting.
00:13:37It's the same for dogs and it's the same for horses.
00:13:39And that's the reason that equine therapy and that humans and horses are able to connect as well.
00:13:43And that humans and dogs are able to connect as well.
00:13:45Oh, that's fascinating.
00:13:46Because the sound frequency that mothers and kids have in all of those species are within the same band.
00:13:54Isn't that fucking cool?
00:13:54What if your mom has a really low voice?
00:13:58She's probably jacked, so it's fine.
00:14:00It doesn't matter at all.
00:14:01What else have I been using that's been interesting?
00:14:04Hyperbaric oxygen therapy.
00:14:05I mean, I know that this is not super experimental and it's probably pretty well.
00:14:09Not sexy at all.
00:14:10It's that hard shell at what, like 2.2 ATTA is so good.
00:14:16I don't know what is happening to make me feel the way that I do after I come out of a hyperbaric therapy,
00:14:21but it is 20 minutes on, 5 minutes off, 100% oxygen on the mask, normal oxygen outside of that,
00:14:2790-minute session down at depth, 2.2, is better than any coffee, better than any cold plunge, better than anything.
00:14:35There's a little bit of parasympathetic activation too, just from the whole sensory depth nature of it.
00:14:40I did one at Brigham's yesterday and like my tongue lagging out of the corner of my mouth.
00:14:43But it's just a standard hyperbaric chamber that they've been using in operators forever.
00:14:48Yeah, Michael Jackson was using one in like the 90s.
00:14:50Have you guys used the hydrogen bath stuff?
00:14:53I have to use that, yeah.
00:14:54I have a hydrogen bath in my garage.
00:14:56I don't, and I think there is, I haven't looked it up.
00:14:59I just fucking have one.
00:15:01It's just transdermal absorption of hydrogen.
00:15:03But you add a lot of studies behind it, I just use it and I like it.
00:15:07You're just getting hundreds of times more hydrogen than a pill.
00:15:09It's so relaxing to me because it's a hot tub.
00:15:11You're seeing a hot tub that has hydrogen in it and you can probably talk.
00:15:15You need a placebo-controlled trial where you're actually in the hot tub and nobody tells you
00:15:18whether or not they put hydrogen in it.
00:15:20But the idea is that there is some transdermal absorption of hydrogen in a hydrogen-rich environment,
00:15:26either in the air or in the water, that's greater than what you would get from like a pill dropped in water.
00:15:32And hydrogen being a selective antioxidant means that for inflammation, for soreness, etc.
00:15:39You do feel pretty good afterwards.
00:15:40Yeah, but it's hard because a hot tub you feel good too.
00:15:42I read books for my podcast and literally like my bookshelf and my books to read is in the garage.
00:15:48That's where my wife had me put the bathtub in a hydrogen bath with a red light.
00:15:53And how long do you stay in?
00:15:53The red light is great.
00:15:54How long do you stay in?
00:15:56About 40 minutes.
00:15:57Every day?
00:15:58How long do you stay in, Chris?
00:15:59Almost every day now.
00:16:00The hydrogen bath I was using really intermittently, that was when I was in Lumati.
00:16:08That's the only place I've ever used that.
00:16:09That's where I got my hydrogen concentrator was from them in San Diego.
00:16:12Have you seen Alex Tanava's thing?
00:16:14He's the inhalation.
00:16:16Yeah, Brigham has one.
00:16:17That is, it's the only hydrogen inhalation machine that can go up to that high of a percentage
00:16:24that doesn't use a nasal cannula.
00:16:26So, you get a pretty high concentration.
00:16:28That also doesn't risk fucking blowing up.
00:16:30Without risk of explosion.
00:16:31Yeah, without risk of explosion.
00:16:32You do not be fucking about with hydrogen, dude.
00:16:34But I mean, you put me in touch with Alex and his machine is fucking out of this world.
00:16:39I don't even know if they're publicly, if they're like widely available.
00:16:42I don't know if they're for sale or not, but it's called an H2L.
00:16:44You've been working on it for a decade.
00:16:45What pushed me over the edge is there's a very trustworthy guy in the hydrogen research sector
00:16:53named Tyler LeBaron, who I think he founded the Hydrogen Research Foundation.
00:16:59I think that's what it's called.
00:17:00And he put his name behind this because he was so impressed with it compared to all these
00:17:05different machines, a lot of them coming out of Asia that have low concentration, or you
00:17:09can't adjust the percentage, or they use a nasal cannula instead of a mask.
00:17:14And so, when I asked him about it, he was like, thumbs up.
00:17:16This is the best one in the market.
00:17:17What do you make of, because we've got hydrogen tablets.
00:17:21Right.
00:17:22Hydrogen flasks, water infusion flasks, inhalation, and now baths as well.
00:17:29What do you make of hydrogen, the research around it generally, and then what do you make of
00:17:32those different?
00:17:33I've used a test kit to test the bottle and the tablet, and the bottle produces a higher
00:17:38concentration of hydrogen.
00:17:40It's like 8 to 10 ppm.
00:17:41But the bottles poop out after like 300 uses.
00:17:46So, you're going to buy a bottle frequently.
00:17:48The pill is slightly lower.
00:17:49The transdermal absorption, there's not a lot of research on that.
00:17:53The inhalation is the highest concentration that you can infuse into your body as far as
00:17:58what they've actually looked at for hydrogen concentration.
00:18:01What's the proposed mechanism, benefits of breathing hydrogen, of putting more of it in
00:18:07your body?
00:18:07Because it's an antioxidant, it's an antioxidant.
00:18:08So, basically, it would quell inflammation.
00:18:12It would essentially, because it's a selective antioxidant, it can accept or donate electrons.
00:18:20So, unlike, say, like a high-dose synthetic vitamin C or vitamin E or a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory
00:18:30drug, it can actually accept or donate an electron.
00:18:35And so, it would be something that would not, say, quell the hormetic response to exercise.
00:18:41Like, after you do a hard exercise session, you're actually not supposed to take high-dose
00:18:45antioxidants.
00:18:46Same reason you shouldn't do a cold plunge.
00:18:48Well, the cold plunge, you have to drop the muscle temperature by about one degree Celsius,
00:18:52which takes at least 10 minutes at a pretty cold temperature.
00:18:56Like, jumping in a quick cold plunge or taking a cold shower after a workout, that's not as
00:19:00big a problem.
00:19:00That fee has been overblown?
00:19:02It's been overblown because I don't know a lot of people who even have the time after
00:19:06a workout to get in a cold plunge for 10 to 20 minutes, which is where...
00:19:10Or the desire.
00:19:10Which is where...
00:19:11Yeah, the desire.
00:19:12Yeah.
00:19:12And that's where the research that you blunt the anabolic response actually happens.
00:19:17So, if you're going to do a long cold plunge, wait for a few hours until after the workout.
00:19:19Who the fuck's doing a 10-minute cold plunge?
00:19:21Me.
00:19:22No, one day we're doing some Friday.
00:19:23Research you.
00:19:24Yeah.
00:19:24Fucking nuts.
00:19:26I do three minutes and I'm done.
00:19:28So, basically, hydrogen and methylene blue are two examples of selective antioxidants that
00:19:33can accept or donate an electron that would be acceptable for post-exercise inflammation
00:19:37without blunting the anabolic response.
00:19:40Tell me if this sounds familiar.
00:19:42You train regularly, you eat reasonably well, you feel fine, but you're just kind of going
00:19:46off vibes.
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00:20:32below or heading to functionhealth.com slash modernwisdom.
00:20:35That's functionhealth.com slash modernwisdom.
00:20:39What about talking about the temperature of your muscles being a mediating factor?
00:20:44I saw that Brian had swallowed a thermometer, a pill thermometer, and he was looking at the
00:20:50temperature that you need to get to.
00:20:51Yeah, for the sauna in order to get to heat shock protein.
00:20:54And he'd been doing maybe 20 minutes or 25 minutes at 200, but he actually needed to
00:20:59get to 30 minutes at 200 in order to get to that.
00:21:03What was your read on that data?
00:21:05He did.
00:21:06He's also very lean, right?
00:21:08So that's going to be a factor in that he's probably going to need higher temperatures, right?
00:21:13Quite efficient with heat.
00:21:14Yeah, exactly.
00:21:15Efficient with heat, less insulation.
00:21:17I think it also depends on your activity level in the sauna.
00:21:21Like I move a lot in the sauna.
00:21:23Like I'm doing push-ups and squats and hot yoga and perineum tanning and all the things
00:21:30that one does in a sauna.
00:21:31So I think if you're moving around a lot, you can get pretty hot, but he does make a good
00:21:38point in that if you want the actual heat shock protein benefit of a sauna, which is the main
00:21:45mechanism that kicks in at the higher temperatures.
00:21:47So not just like the detox from sweating or whatever, but the actual cellular resilience
00:21:51effect that you need a hotter temperature than most likely a lot of people are actually
00:21:56using.
00:21:57With the caveat being, it's kind of a paradox that sauna decreases risk of dementia and
00:22:02Alzheimer's.
00:22:03But when your cranium gets hot and you're getting above about 200 degrees and you don't have
00:22:09your sexy Elvin sauna hat, then you actually increase risk of dementia and Alzheimer's.
00:22:13So he makes a pretty good point that you probably need to go hotter than you're actually going
00:22:18or move more in your sauna or both, but you need to invest in a wool cap to do so.
00:22:25That's the protection.
00:22:26Interesting.
00:22:26How important is it?
00:22:28And ice balls.
00:22:29I was going to ask.
00:22:30Got to ice the balls.
00:22:31Yeah, ice the balls.
00:22:31I bought my sons, I forget the brand, but they're the ice.
00:22:35Did you get nutcicles?
00:22:35I have 18-year-old sons and I want grandkids and we do so.
00:22:38That is the thing they say that if you're trying to reproduce, that the hot temperatures can
00:22:43decrease fertility.
00:22:44Well, the crazy thing is when I went to go and freeze my sperm, I was talking about, okay,
00:22:49what do I need to avoid?
00:22:51One of the things that the guy came back to me and said is there's so many guys that go away
00:22:55in a bachelor party and they just hang in a jacuzzi, just chilling with their boys for
00:23:00ages.
00:23:01He's like, that will do so much more damage to your sperm count than a ton of saunas because
00:23:06you've got direct contact from the heat of the water, just like absolutely infusing your
00:23:12testosterone and your testicles.
00:23:14And chlorine and parabens and phthalates and everything else.
00:23:16Probably not great.
00:23:17How important are the heat shock proteins?
00:23:20Like, do we really need those or can you get a lot of the benefits without getting into
00:23:23that upper echelon?
00:23:24You can get, and as a matter of fact, this was a couple of months ago, they looked at
00:23:30sauna versus weight training.
00:23:32And the weight training protocol produced heat shock protein elevation similar to what people
00:23:38were getting from a sauna session.
00:23:39I don't remember the time or the temperature being used, but weights would be one.
00:23:44Just exercising in the heat in general, paradoxically, cold plunging can increase heat shock proteins
00:23:49because it's a thermoregulatory mechanism.
00:23:53So there are other ways that you can stress the body, kind of like fasting and autophagy
00:23:57to get a similar pathway activated.
00:24:00So it doesn't just have to be sauna.
00:24:02That's interesting.
00:24:02I've been loving a resonance breathing lamp.
00:24:05So there's this lamp called Ohm, Ohm.Health.
00:24:07And it's got FDA registered heart rate sensor on the top of it.
00:24:11So you can imagine like a big glass lamp.
00:24:13And on the top, there's a stone and that's got a hundred Hertz sensor.
00:24:18You just hold the stone and the lamp is connected to your Wi-Fi, has the algorithm,
00:24:22and it detects your HRV.
00:24:24You breathe, the stone vibrates.
00:24:26So you're just breathing up and down with the stone.
00:24:28It maximizes your resonance.
00:24:29It gets you into resonance.
00:24:30It's maximizing that arrhythmia between it.
00:24:33It makes all sounds.
00:24:33It makes like an ocean sound.
00:24:35Literally like two weeks ago, I got targeted on Instagram.
00:24:38So rules.
00:24:39Absolutely rules.
00:24:39Funny story.
00:24:40So Jay Wiles, the HRV expert who developed that lamp.
00:24:46I used to have this thing where I didn't want to do a podcast without a sidekick,
00:24:49without a podcast host.
00:24:50Jay was my podcast sidekick for like four years.
00:24:54No way.
00:24:54Yeah.
00:24:55He was like the witty banter guy and he's super smart.
00:24:58Like whenever anybody would ask a question about HRV, like Jay would jump in and then
00:25:01he developed this lamp and it actually is cool.
00:25:03It's absolutely awesome.
00:25:05The best thing about it is you can grab it and use it while you're watching TV.
00:25:10So let's say that you're lying in bed or you're on the couch or whatever.
00:25:13If you've got a lamp nearby, you can just be watching the movie and you can crank out 45
00:25:18minute resonance breathwork sessions without even thinking about it.
00:25:21Because you don't need the light cue, just the vibratory cue.
00:25:23It's just vibrating.
00:25:24It doesn't interrupt anything.
00:25:25If you've got it next to your bed and you can't sleep on at nighttime, you can roll over
00:25:28and grab it.
00:25:29That's why it doesn't interrupt whoever you're in bed with.
00:25:31So what is that?
00:25:32Is it the vibration that changes it or is it the breath?
00:25:35The idea behind resonance breathing and it's actually kind of fascinating that nearly every
00:25:41human being on the planet with a breath rate of around five and a half seconds in, five and
00:25:46a half seconds out achieves peak HRV.
00:25:50So that's about where you see really good vagal tone is at that breath rate.
00:25:55And this lamp is essentially in a trainment tool to either via visual cues or via vibratory
00:26:01cues if you're using the stone to cause you to breathe at that rate.
00:26:05There's a book called Coherence.
00:26:08And in the latter pages of that book, it was one of the first books I ever read on resonance
00:26:12breathing.
00:26:13There's like a link or a QR code to a downloadable MP3 file called the clock and bell.
00:26:18And that was when I first discovered the power of resonance breathing because it's literally
00:26:22like tick tock, tick tock, ding, tick tock.
00:26:26And you play it while you're working or while you're checking emails, while you're doing whatever
00:26:30would normally be stressful.
00:26:31It keeps you from email apnea because you know that you're doing resonance breathing,
00:26:35but it trains you how to like subconsciously resonance breathe, obviously a way more stripped
00:26:42down solution than what Jay developed.
00:26:44But home lamp is super cool.
00:26:46It's trait rather than state.
00:26:48And I think that's what everybody's trying to get themselves over to.
00:26:50It's like, I want to do this practice, but I don't need to just end at the end of my session.
00:26:55One of the interesting things I talked to Jay about was if you get below 10 minutes, it's
00:27:00just state.
00:27:01If you get between 10 and 20, you start to move it across into trait changes too.
00:27:05Yeah.
00:27:05I think you only need to do maybe, you know, three or four sessions a week.
00:27:08So an hour a week, something like that.
00:27:09And it's so easy.
00:27:11So that's, that's on my list.
00:27:12It doesn't do fetal heartbeat and womb whooshing sounds though.
00:27:14Which is a shame.
00:27:15Unfortunately.
00:27:15Which is a shame.
00:27:16They got to build that up.
00:27:17Any other cool shit like interventions or supplements or whatever you've been playing?
00:27:21The other, the other big one that I've seen and I know Ben's experienced it too, is the
00:27:25Muse stem cells.
00:27:27It's, it's they, so a scientist, Mari Dazawa out of Japan discovered a subset phenotype
00:27:33of stem cell called Muse.
00:27:34And it's fascinating because everything they've been doing outside of the United States with
00:27:40tinkering with stem cells and trying to put them under stress and trying to get them
00:27:43to adapt and change has been in an effort to create a cell that would have a certain
00:27:48phenotype that would be optimal for healing, recovery, uh, and treating an array of different
00:27:54chronic diseases, but that would not become tumorigenic.
00:27:57Yeah.
00:27:57Right.
00:27:58So one of the challenges of a cell that can differentiate, meaning it can become anything
00:28:02is that cell could in theory, hypothetically become a cancer cell or what if it came into
00:28:08contact with a cancer cell and took on a cancer phenotype and then exasperated that.
00:28:12And now we put trillions of these cells in your body.
00:28:14Yeah.
00:28:15And so fascinating.
00:28:15It's turbocharged right answer.
00:28:16Right.
00:28:16Uh, 2014, this is another woman, one of the leading scientists in stem cell research,
00:28:222014, she discovered this cell.
00:28:24Um, it is a Muse stands for multi-lineage stress enduring, um, which basically means traditional
00:28:32stem cells.
00:28:32You have to cryo freeze negative 80 degrees or more.
00:28:36And the second you thaw them out, they begin to die.
00:28:39And so you've got to get them into the body quickly.
00:28:41These Muse cells can stay alive for days at room temperature.
00:28:45Um, less than 2% of stem cells are Muse, but they're the super soldiers.
00:28:49Yeah, they've got a little Muse.
00:28:50And so in all this research is now coming together, like this scientist, uh, Dominic Deutcher out
00:28:55of Germany, uh, was a professor at Stanford and he couldn't understand why diabetic patients
00:29:01didn't seem to be responding in certain ways like other patients.
00:29:04Now that he, he, he realized in his study, even though they had stem cells, they were missing
00:29:09this other tagged cell.
00:29:10That was some sort of subset and what it was, was a Muse.
00:29:14And so here's why that's important.
00:29:16A Muse cell in layman's terms can become anything.
00:29:19So like when you're a kindergartner, you could grow up and be a scientist, a doctor, an attorney.
00:29:23Ben Greenfield, some of us.
00:29:24Ben Greenfield, whatever it is, because you haven't set your identity yet.
00:29:28So in America, most people who say stem cells don't work, they're getting bone marrow aspirate
00:29:33or they're taking cells from fat tissue.
00:29:35And the problem with that is that cell's already developed a phenotype.
00:29:38And the fraction is very large.
00:29:39Yes.
00:29:40And if they're diabetic or elderly, they don't have Muse.
00:29:45There are no Muse.
00:29:46It's literally just traditional MSCs.
00:29:48And so what is so special about these cells is they will take on any phenotype.
00:29:54They can pierce the blood-brain barrier.
00:29:56Other traditional cells get caught in the lungs.
00:29:58Traditional MSCs mostly get caught up in the lungs.
00:30:00They don't pierce the blood-brain barrier.
00:30:02Traditional MSCs have a 3% engraftment rate.
00:30:05Muse cells have a 30% engraftment rate.
00:30:08Traditional stem cells take multiple days.
00:30:10Muse cells are engrafted within 48 hours.
00:30:14And high histocompatibility too.
00:30:16There's almost no immune system response.
00:30:18So they're immunomodulatory.
00:30:18Is this the shit that Matt Cook had me breathe?
00:30:22Did he have me atomize Muse cells?
00:30:24Yes.
00:30:24You can nebulize them.
00:30:26Yeah, nebulize.
00:30:26Probably had you do that with Muse-derived exosomes.
00:30:30Yeah.
00:30:30Yes.
00:30:31Yes.
00:30:31Yes.
00:30:31And so you can literally place it on the fulcrum plate internasally, and it will pierce the
00:30:37blood-brain barrier.
00:30:38And they have this because they did it on stroke victims in Japan.
00:30:41And their brain is lit up like a Christmas tree with these tagged cells.
00:30:45And what's crazy is through phagocytosis, they'll consume the damaged cell and take on the personality
00:30:51of that cell.
00:30:52So if you have a damaged neuron, they become a baby neuron that's young and healthy and vibrant.
00:30:56This is proven quantifiably in babies born with encephalitis.
00:31:02They did a study in Japan.
00:31:03If they don't treat those children, almost all of them will be brain damaged in the subset
00:31:07population that was treated in a randomized control trial, which people love.
00:31:13Those children, 90% of them had totally normal brain function out to two years from one
00:31:17intravenous treatment, from one intravenous treatment.
00:31:20And we actually had a patient who was on a heart transplant list.
00:31:23We were talking about this with Ben yesterday.
00:31:25Crazy patient on a heart transplant list.
00:31:28We treat them intravenous because they couldn't get the heart.
00:31:32By the time they got the heart and they re-ran this patient's information or all their data,
00:31:37the doctor took them off the transplant list.
00:31:40And there is crazy data on heart, brain.
00:31:42You guys are using Dizawa Muse, right?
00:31:46Correct.
00:31:46Because the actual fraction percentage of Muse cells widely varies.
00:31:52And that's who Matt's using it too.
00:31:54Mari Dizawa is the woman in Japan who discovered these cells.
00:31:58Yeah.
00:31:58And so this is the most game changer thing that I have seen.
00:32:01And I've like, I don't own into the company.
00:32:03It's not mine.
00:32:04I wish I did.
00:32:05But it's like the most game changer thing.
00:32:07And we've been using it.
00:32:09And because again, Texas has the right to try.
00:32:11And so this is what Brett has seen the most impact with, with his Parkinson's.
00:32:16And I'm not saying it's going to, if with Parkinson's, it's like, can we slow, can we slow things?
00:32:22Can we give your body the best chance?
00:32:25And there are so many different benefits to this, whether it's tendons or joints or orthopedic
00:32:30related injuries.
00:32:31The data's really compelling when you go back and look at all of the data that this woman
00:32:35has accrued over the last decade.
00:32:37And now it's a culmination of even the scientists in Germany, Dominic Deutcher, who is trying
00:32:42to understand what are these little subset phenotypes.
00:32:45And now it's all come together where he's like, holy shit, I've wasted 20 years of research.
00:32:49They're actually harvested from a rare breed of cattle in the Middle East.
00:32:52So it's super cool.
00:32:53You're kidding.
00:32:54Difficult to get.
00:32:54You're kidding.
00:32:55I am kidding.
00:32:55He is kidding.
00:32:56That's fucking kidding.
00:32:57It's a callback.
00:32:58This is healthy birth, healthy mother, pre-planned C-section.
00:33:01They take the discarded afterbirth.
00:33:02And from that, they can extrapolate out these, these supercells, these super soldier cells,
00:33:07basically.
00:33:08That's so fucking cool.
00:33:09Yeah.
00:33:09Afterbirth super soldiers.
00:33:11Yeah.
00:33:11That's what I need.
00:33:12So those are things that I think will be game changer as they become more readily accepted.
00:33:16Florida's passed a law that allows accessibility.
00:33:19Um, Tennessee just passed a law that I lobbied for.
00:33:22And then also I lobbied in Arizona.
00:33:24We got it through the House and the Senate, but the governor of Arizona shot it down.
00:33:28Um, I think Texas is going to pass more accessible laws around this.
00:33:32Um, and then Utah.
00:33:33So you can get it in certain states and then certain states are regulated.
00:33:37And then obviously it's not an FDA approved, uh, modality for anything.
00:33:41So any, any use of these cells would be off, off label.
00:33:44There is no label.
00:33:46You know what you were talking about?
00:33:47Um, putting stuff here.
00:33:48I was thinking about clear spray, X L E A R that shit just available over the counter
00:33:54for mark-ons.
00:33:55Yeah.
00:33:56Fucking crazy.
00:33:57Yeah.
00:33:58Yeah.
00:33:58I can't believe that that thing is just like, oh yeah, just buy it.
00:34:01And for the people that don't know, I'm talking, can you explain what it is?
00:34:03It's a nasal spray.
00:34:04You know about the, about the xylitol infused nasal spray?
00:34:06Yeah.
00:34:06Um, I've only ever really used it after swimming in fresh water.
00:34:11Like I discovered it way back in the triathlon days where you'd get out of a river or lake
00:34:15or any fresh body.
00:34:16And just typically like about three or 4 AM that night after you, you'd lay down and stuff
00:34:23connects in the nasal passages and you get the histaminergic response, you start sneezing
00:34:26and you start sniffling and you spray this stuff, uh, and you get vasodilation and it seems
00:34:31to just like knock down the histamine reaction, but it's just an OTC.
00:34:34Yeah.
00:34:34Yeah.
00:34:35Over-the-counter clear spray.
00:34:37But if you do a course typically for about two or three months, that's enough to knock
00:34:41out mark-ons that is a-
00:34:44Right.
00:34:44Which normally you'd get a pretty expensive and difficult to get a vasoactive intestinal
00:34:50polypeptide like nasal spray for, the VIP peptide.
00:34:53The VIP peptide.
00:34:54Yeah.
00:34:54But you can do that and then maybe some silver spray and you can get rid of something that's
00:34:58literally living in your fucking nasal cavity.
00:35:01Yeah.
00:35:01Like you got shit that's living inside of your nose.
00:35:03These like, what they're like micro organisms.
00:35:06Yes.
00:35:06And, uh, yeah, there's clear spray, which is just X-L-E-A-R.
00:35:11I know there's stuff like that.
00:35:11Somebody knows how to pronounce it.
00:35:13Yeah.
00:35:13Whatever.
00:35:13I mean, it's apparently clear spray.
00:35:16Clear spray.
00:35:17Somewhere along the way, low energy just gets accepted as a part of getting older.
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00:36:23So why are GLPs a concern for sarcopenia and are you more worried about sarcopenia than osteoporosis?
00:36:31I'm worried about both and that is a great question.
00:36:34We've never had the ability to lose this much weight this fast outside of bariatric surgery.
00:36:41We are at the intersection of something that we've never seen before, which is very unusual
00:36:46in medicine to be at a place that we've never been.
00:36:50Yeah.
00:36:51We now have the capacity to reduce weight magnitudes than of weight that we've never had before,
00:36:59which means if in fact these drugs are utilized, which I think the number is, they're expecting
00:37:05somewhere along between 40 to 60 million people on these medications.
00:37:10It's like 20% of Americans.
00:37:11Yeah.
00:37:12Plus all the people who are just like using gray market stuff and not even telling anybody.
00:37:15Hopefully things are going to evolve there.
00:37:19But what is going to happen is if obesity has been our focus, which it has been for the last 50 years,
00:37:23we haven't gotten very far, all of a sudden GLP-1s are now available, obesity will become less of a problem.
00:37:30But the fact that people are sedentary, sarcopenia, the loss of muscle mass and strength,
00:37:35is going to become a primary problem, which then we know how bone is formed.
00:37:39And by the way, osteoporosis is a pediatric disease with geriatric outcomes.
00:37:44Osteoporosis is a pediatric disease with geriatric outcomes.
00:37:51You explain for the idiot in the room, please.
00:37:53Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:37:53That's my idiot in the room.
00:37:55Meaning what you do when you are younger to protect bone and muscle plays a role in the outcome.
00:38:02Okay, so she was saying it's like predictive of your osteoporotic status late in life, what you are at early in life.
00:38:10Athletes that lose their menstrual cycle are very underweight, people that have struggled with anorexia,
00:38:16end up having very low bone mineral density, and then are at risk for osteoporosis.
00:38:21It's kind of strange to hear three people in a room who are quite forward-thinking, quite experimental, open to new evidence, being skeptical about GLPs.
00:38:30Because I understand obesity was a problem for a long time, we've got this intervention which appears to fix the obesity thing, and now there's all of these potential side effects that we don't understand.
00:38:39In fact, they're not even side effects, they're more like second-order consequences, that's probably a better way to look at them, right, rather than side effects.
00:38:45What else, how do you guys feel about the potential for millions, tens of millions of people to be taking GLPs over the next decade or so?
00:38:52I think one of the big challenges, and this is what you just touched on, is in traditional medicine, it's an insurance model.
00:38:59And this is my forte, and the challenge with that traditional model is you are based off an indication, and that indication is based off a specific dosage.
00:39:08And so, these trials were based off chronically sick, morbidly obese people, right?
00:39:14This was originally going to be a diabetes medication, and so all of the initial data...
00:39:19Which is where the lion's share of human clinical data comes from, is disease populations.
00:39:22Correct. And so then the problem is, you take that and you roll it out to the general population, and every...
00:39:27Remember the 33 BMI.
00:39:28Yeah. And now every housewife in Malibu was using it to lose 10 pounds for, like, vacation.
00:39:33Guess what else it does? And this is not really talked about. It has different sexual side effects if you are a man or a woman.
00:39:40Is that like the anhedonia thing where it reduces pleasure, but it's more pronounced in one sex?
00:39:46Yes. Which one?
00:39:47So, in women.
00:39:48Oh, really?
00:39:49Uh, and the data is still emerging because we haven't been using it.
00:39:53I bet she opened one bottle for my wife.
00:39:54Goddammit.
00:39:56You're so lean. You're so lean, but I can't have sex with you.
00:40:00So for men, it can increase testosterone, it can decrease body fat, decrease estrogen, and it can
00:40:07increase sex drive. But what we're starting to see for women is that it can, again, decrease body fat,
00:40:14but it also seems to decrease sex drive.
00:40:17So just give them some PT-141 nasal spray and we're back off to the races, right?
00:40:22Or we study women more, yeah, or we study women more, and perhaps we get to your point,
00:40:28specialized dosing.
00:40:29Because the problem is in that model, I literally right before we walked in here,
00:40:33got a text from somebody who said, "My wife's trizepatide is no longer covered by insurance,
00:40:37and they're trying to move her to a dosage that would be covered."
00:40:41Okay, that's, you're going to move her up to a higher dosage to get insurance covered.
00:40:45Oh, it's a higher dose that's covered.
00:40:47Even though she was getting the efficacy out of the lower dose.
00:40:50Right, which is a problem.
00:40:51And that's because insurance companies, I broke this down on your podcast too before,
00:40:55it's a big challenge because 30% of the revenue of an insurance company comes from monetizing drugs.
00:41:01So they are changing dosages based off rebates and what rebate pays them the most.
00:41:06And so you may be on an efficacious dosage that's working great for you,
00:41:11but they may go, "Yeah, we're not covering that one anymore. You've got to bump up."
00:41:14Yeah, which is super interesting because it's an efficacious dose.
00:41:17I mean, we were just talking about 0.25, which is a micro dose that suppresses food noise
00:41:21that for a lot of people is enough, nowhere near enough to get covered by insurance.
00:41:25But then these larger doses is where you see the issue back to sarcopenia,
00:41:29where you're told you're supposed to go to the gym and lift weights.
00:41:33And the only way for you to do that without feeling flat is to eat a good meal,
00:41:37but you sit in front of your favorite smoothie or pre-workout or whatever,
00:41:41and you get nauseous trying it, so then you're flat in the gym.
00:41:44And so this is like the whole gray man hypothesis where the road that we're going down is getting
00:41:49really smart, getting big AI, potentially hardware-infused brains while our body wastes
00:41:58away in the little stick figures, and the gray men are us from the future on GLP-1s and AI.
00:42:02Thank goodness we have testosterone.
00:42:04I like this.
00:42:04Is the dosage, is it a pre-click pen?
00:42:08Is that why people can't...
00:42:10Because when I think, "Oh, this is the dosage," I just think about a vial and an insulin syringe,
00:42:14and you go, "Well, I'll just draw more or less."
00:42:16So the companies are launching those other dosages to give more mobility to patients and options.
00:42:21So the commercially available companies, the manufacturers, our compounders have been doing
00:42:25that for the last five years.
00:42:28But that still goes back to, it's going to be based off what was in the clinical trials
00:42:34and what dosage were showed to be efficacious in those trials, which is again an obese patient population.
00:42:39And if you want insurance to cover it, insurance is going to do it following the literature.
00:42:43Oh, that's so interesting.
00:42:45And so now we're in a space where we don't really understand and know microdosing.
00:42:50We do know that GLP-1s affect muscle positively, despite what you're seeing in the literature,
00:42:55which is it reduces muscle mass. The majority of the mass loss is fat.
00:43:02But why I actually think that GLP-1s are really good is it has the potential to improve muscle quality.
00:43:10By reducing intramuscular triglycerides.
00:43:12Yes. Imagine you have a Wagyu steak.
00:43:16You go on a GLP-1, you inject it, your Wagyu steak becomes like a filet.
00:43:23So the texture and the composition can improve with GLP-1s.
00:43:27So we need it. I believe that we need it because we have not been effective
00:43:31before. And again, I don't think body fat is the major problem. I think it's intramuscular.
00:43:37That is true that a lot of the studies on, I think it was primarily retitrutide that showed
00:43:43muscle loss were done via DEXA evaluations, which couldn't differentiate between lean mass loss
00:43:49coming from muscle or lean mass loss coming from something like intrahepatic tissue, intramuscular
00:43:54triglycerides or other things that would actually be a positive benefit when it comes to loss.
00:43:59So if you're not eating enough food, the muscle loss thing is still a pretty big risk.
00:44:04To try and recap while we're out here, because that's fucking mind-blowing.
00:44:07The studies that have been done are mostly on morbidly obese people.
00:44:11Because they're morbidly obese, they're given quite high dosages.
00:44:14When it comes to the prescriber-approved dosages that people can take, because they need to follow the
00:44:22science, that means that even people who are looking to lose a little bit of weight and might be able to
00:44:27get efficacious effects from micro dosing, they need to be given the big boy dosages because they're
00:44:34the only ones that currently have been studied in the literature. Is that right?
00:44:36It's an attempt to try and land the ship and thread the needle and get insurance coverage.
00:44:41The initial prescriptions for the first few years were preloaded syringes, right?
00:44:48And so you couldn't have the autonomy to shift. And so when we were seeing muscle wasting, it's like,
00:44:53yeah, because a lot of these people are taking way higher dosages than they should have been taking,
00:44:57and their doctor's just trying to give them a solution.
00:44:59And then no saving their weight. When they don't need to, they could get away with 0.25 or 0.5.
00:45:03And what Gabriel was saying is that the muscle loss is not necessarily a direct
00:45:07mechanistic cause of the GLP itself, and some of the actual loss from that might be favorable.
00:45:13It's the loss that occurs from simply not being able to get into the gym and/or eat adequate protein.
00:45:18Because you've got such low energy because you're not eating enough.
00:45:20And low food volume.
00:45:23What's the mechanism for the sex drive in women?
00:45:25-Dopamine. Dopamine brain reward pathways.
00:45:30Because the pathways are very similar.
00:45:32And they're looking at GLP-1 for alcohol addiction and drug addiction.
00:45:36-Right. Anything that's hedonic.
00:45:38-Anything that's hedonic. It's not solely just related to body fat and appetite.
00:45:44It has brain effects.
00:45:45-It's not only found in the gut and slowing, like making you feel full and slowing gastric emptying.
00:45:50It's also, you have GLP-1 in the brain, and so it impacts your dopamine response.
00:45:56-Desire, generally.
00:45:57-Zombie mode.
00:45:59-I brought this up with Rogan.
00:46:00It was like, what happens when our entire economy is driven on consumerism,
00:46:04and you pharmacologically suppress desire?
00:46:07Right?
00:46:07Like most people are buying shit, not things that they need, just things that they want.
00:46:11-Right.
00:46:11-And it's sort of repeat, habituation.
00:46:14I'm just going to satisfy, satiate myself.
00:46:16And yeah, maybe it's sex.
00:46:17Maybe it's video games.
00:46:19Maybe it's porn.
00:46:19Maybe it's social media.
00:46:20Maybe it's weed.
00:46:21-You're going down the GLP to GDP.
00:46:23-Wait, but here's what we're talking about.
00:46:25-Ah, very nice.
00:46:26-Well, I totally missed that, but it's okay.
00:46:28I'm like the mom in the room.
00:46:30But what's happening is that, so I see patients in my clinic, right, strong medical,
00:46:35people are getting a little depressed.
00:46:37They don't get the same enjoyment from sex, from eating, or from spending.
00:46:42-People on GLPs get depressed.
00:46:43-Yes.
00:46:44And now I want to be really clear, I'm not anti-GLP1s.
00:46:46I mean, we prescribe them.
00:46:48But it's the idea that kind of what Brigham is saying is that we understand the utilization
00:46:54in trials with sick people with type 2 diabetes.
00:46:58We don't really know all of the other secondary outcomes that this can cause.
00:47:04And again, part of them are positive.
00:47:07But decreased sex drive, fun, mood, all of those things, those are a problem.
00:47:13-I remember looking at… -It's a great aid for stoicism.
00:47:16-I looked at some research around bariatric surgery outcomes, and there's an increase in
00:47:21suicide risk after bariatric surgery.
00:47:23But it's not just because it's highly traumatic, and sometimes there's infections, and sometimes
00:47:28idiot surgeons close you up with gauze still inside of you, and things can go wrong.
00:47:33It's that typically people who are sufficiently overweight that they use bariatric surgery
00:47:38are eating to deal with something that's happening in their life.
00:47:41-That's exactly right.
00:47:41-They've now had that pathway… -It's a mental health issue too.
00:47:43-They've had that pathway of reward and sedation taken away from them,
00:47:47but the problem still exists.
00:47:48-Yeah.
00:47:49-So now what you're talking about here is, hey, you're using GLPs to help yourself lose weight.
00:47:54The weight loss has been curtailed, but the reason that you overate still exists.
00:47:59And the same thing goes for all of the video games.
00:48:00-If you were to go to Dr. Lyon's practice, I guarantee you, you're doing a full workup,
00:48:04you're assessing the blood work, and you're looking at the patient holistically.
00:48:07-Of course.
00:48:07-If you go into a primary care practice in an insurance model, they have six minutes with a
00:48:11patient on average. They want to put a win on the board for that patient. That patient's asking for
00:48:16a GLP-1. That patient probably is pre-diabetic or diabetic. That patient probably does have weight
00:48:21to lose. But what is the root cause of this illness? And these are the symptoms, not the root cause.
00:48:28And then they prescribe the GLP-1 without ever saying, do they have a hormonal inadequacy?
00:48:32Do they have a family history of mental health issues, depression, anxiety? You're doing all that.
00:48:37-Yes.
00:48:37-But you have the ability in a cash model.
00:48:40-And you bring up another really good point, that say someone needs to lose weight. Again,
00:48:45we have to recognize we've been very unsuccessful. Now we have a tool that makes us successful.
00:48:52However, let me pose it to you this way. If you, Brigham, had low thyroid and you were hypothyroid,
00:48:59well, you might try to get to the root cause, but let's just say you have low thyroid and I give you
00:49:03thyroid replacement to normalize your levels, you wouldn't think twice, right? I'm going somewhere
00:49:09with this.
00:49:09-Yes.
00:49:10-If you had trouble seeing, let's say your eyes got older, if I gave you glasses, that wouldn't be an issue.
00:49:18-It would affect my sex appeal a little bit. I would push back, I would ask for contacts.
00:49:22-Fine, fine. But wait, I'm going somewhere with this. But if someone comes into your point with,
00:49:27say, low testosterone as a woman or a man, they are now juicing. They are now on steroids. So,
00:49:36this is a problem. Not that your testosterone is low, I'm going to give you testosterone to bring you
00:49:43up to a normal level. We're not talking about optimization. We're not talking about enhancement.
00:49:48We are talking about someone's using a GLP-1 now has low testosterone, man or woman. And the thing,
00:49:55the balance, let's say they have low sex hormones, because of the industry stigma in general.
00:50:02-Yeah.
00:50:03-Everyone at this table is very interested in health. But for the average person, if you go,
00:50:08"Hey, I'm on testosterone." They're like, "Oh my gosh, you're juicing. You're on steroids."
00:50:13-Right, because you're saying it's spot on because there is a stigma in primary care too with testosterone.
00:50:18So real world example, and he covered this on Joe, is Jelly Roll. We've helped him lose 250 pounds.
00:50:24Everyone immediately assumes we put him on a GLP-1. No, we ran his blood work. He had low
00:50:30testosterone. He was chronically inflamed. He had all sorts of other biometric issues unrelated to
00:50:36discipline. And all we did was fix those root causes. He never took a GLP-1. And to this day,
00:50:42everyone's like, "And I sell GLP-1s." I would tell you if he took it.
00:50:46-It'd be great to see GLPs if he needed it. -The guy did it with blood, sweat,
00:50:49and tears, diet, lifestyle, nutrition. -Blood, sweat, and testosterone.
00:50:52-It optimized hormones, yes. But in general medicine, they view it as testosterone is the boogie man.
00:50:57-Yeah, it's a misunderstanding between hypogonadism and superphysiological dosing of testosterone and
00:51:03not understanding the sweet spot in between. And, you know, I still, you know, like I was watching
00:51:09Pete Hezgaard's recent video about putting warfighters on testosterone.
00:51:13-He wasn't putting warfighters on testosterone. Screening.
00:51:16-Or, yeah, screening for that. I still like to see that conversation couched in the discussion of, like,
00:51:22lift weights with your legs, where there's a high concentration of androgen receptors and cover
00:51:26the bases like creatine and zinc and boron and omegas and magnesium and some of the upstream
00:51:31precursors, you know, look into sleep, look into recovery, and then make the decision.
00:51:36So, I know you guys aren't saying just, like, throw testosterone really nilly. You said you did
00:51:40blood work with Jelly Roll. -Correct, yeah.
00:51:42-I think the problem is, like, it is massive, the number of people who are hypogonadal, the number of men,
00:51:48in particular, who are hypogonadal. I don't think that testosterone replacement therapy is the
00:51:53first solution, but sometimes it is the most effective solution, especially in a scenario where
00:51:57you're unable, like in a warfighter, to live the optimal lifestyle. -This is very important.
00:52:03Very important conversation. What you are saying is absolutely correct. We are seeing a decrease in
00:52:08testosterone year after year. Obesity goes up, behaviors go down, people are eating, not sleeping,
00:52:17all sorts of things. There is a medical risk when someone has low testosterone for heart disease,
00:52:25for osteoporosis, cognition, depression. So, if I had one dream in this room of strong men and powerful
00:52:35men, we would clear up the idea of a testosterone revolution, and we would clear up this idea that
00:52:42testosterone is steroids, and somehow I can give medication to make someone have less fat, but if I
00:52:49give medication to someone to have them build muscle, it's a problem.
00:52:55If you and your partner sleep best at different temperatures, it is time that you joined us in
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00:53:02do you prefer? I usually take left, but I am flexible. -You're not sleeping in my bed, mate.
00:53:07-Oh, when you said partner, I just assumed. -I meant a romantic partner, you know?
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00:53:18the bed by up to 20 degrees, so if you run hot and your partner runs cold, you're both happy.
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00:53:34checks while you're asleep, tracking things like abnormal heartbeats or sudden HRV changes.
00:53:38-What if I just slept at the end of your bed like a dog?
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00:54:12Why do you think testosterone has become so demonized?
00:54:14-It makes your blood super thick and gives you a heart attack.
00:54:18-So, in the 30s, people used testosterone. It was discovered in the 30s as a medical intervention,
00:54:25and there was one study that came out by Huggins, and it showed that testosterone caused prostate cancer.
00:54:33So, in the 30s, people were using it as a medical intervention. There wasn't a stigma associated with
00:54:38it. At the same time, people were interested. We're seeing an increase in sport performance,
00:54:43right? Because we do know that testosterone increases muscle mass, combined testosterone
00:54:48training, you get better outcomes. -And motivation for forward motion.
00:54:50-And all of these things, for decades, people would castrate men because they were worried that it was
00:54:57going to make or start prostate cancer and treat prostate cancer. The study was wrong.
00:55:03-Yeah. There were only three patients in this study. -I can't believe you know this.
00:55:06So, there were three patients in this study. So, they castrated men. They didn't put anyone...
00:55:11-You mean we didn't give men testosterone? -No. They suppressed androgens.
00:55:14-Well, they actually tied rubber bands around their balls. -Yeah.
00:55:17-There were three patients. -They don't really do that.
00:55:19-Because this Huggins study said if you've got too much testosterone,
00:55:24you might get prostate cancer. Therefore, we'll cut your balls off.
00:55:26-Or if you have prostate cancer, we'll cut your balls off. -We'll cut your balls off.
00:55:30-Yeah. It was kind of hard to survive with balls. -Yeah, and it was wrong.
00:55:33-But it was wrong. -It was all dogma that then got adopted by the medical establishment.
00:55:37-It was wrong. Can you imagine? Like, whoops. -And this was debunked by Dr. Morgan Tyler,
00:55:42a prominent urologist in the 90s. How did it take 60 years?
00:55:47-I know. -So, this is the problem. It took 60 years,
00:55:50and now we're seeing the opposite. -Yeah.
00:55:53-Testosterone doesn't cause these things. Testosterone, there is a risk for having low
00:55:58testosterone. Testosterone doesn't cause prostate cancer. Testosterone doesn't make
00:56:03cardiovascular disease worse. There is all of these myths, which is really important, but we got it wrong.
00:56:09-Some of them are true, though. Hair loss. -If you think about what Dr. Morgan Tyler uncovered is
00:56:14it comes down to saturation levels. -That's right.
00:56:15-So, think of receptor sites. You can only water a plant so much. So, if a plant gets no water,
00:56:20it dies. If a plant gets too much water, it dies. Receptor sites are the same way. You can only water
00:56:25that plant so much. So, as men had no testosterone, chemically castrated, their risk of prostate cancer
00:56:31was statistically less because you have no testosterone. But you have a higher risk of every other form of cancer.
00:56:37You have a higher risk of metabolic disease, diabetes. -Most of the risks.
00:56:42-Losing bone mass. -Of testosterone are not what we thought they were.
00:56:47And they're a little like, you know, excess aromatization and conversion to estrogen if it's
00:56:51improperly managed. So, you can get emotional issues or gynecomastia or increased conversion to DHT,
00:56:59which can cause male pattern baldness. But these are not like life or death issues.
00:57:05-And most of those issues occur when you push past physiologic ends. -Getting creepy, doing chick-flicks,
00:57:08enjoying baldness. -And there's a difference
00:57:10between enhancement and replacement of something the body already makes. And for the military operators,
00:57:18so, I had Tim Parlatore, who is the attorney who submitted the memo on the podcast. We haven't
00:57:24released it yet. And the idea is that if you have low testosterone, you are at a disadvantage.
00:57:30If we send guys to war, we're not talking about enhancement. We are talking about guys that are
00:57:36symptomatic with hypogonadism, with low levels of testosterone. If we don't even screen, right now,
00:57:42they're not even screening. If we don't screen, we are sending to war guys with a massive disadvantage.
00:57:50-Right, suboptimal. -Suboptimal.
00:57:51-I want every single soldier to have 2,000 nanograms per deciliter of testosterone. -No, please don't.
00:57:56-Yes, I fucking do. Yes, I fucking do. -No, we don't.
00:57:58-Remember, we don't want too emotional... -Pulking monsters who can't control their raid.
00:58:04That's what I want. -Bald, rage-infused monsters.
00:58:07-Yeah, exactly. Just fucking stick-skin arms. -No hair.
00:58:09-Grimacines everywhere. -But we don't want any of that.
00:58:12Listen, we... -We're fucking each other.
00:58:14-Tiny balls. -Just fucking everywhere.
00:58:16-Yeah, no sperm. -We've gone so sideways.
00:58:18Listen, as a military family, as a Navy family...
00:58:23-With high testosterone. -With high...
00:58:25Yes, my husband, yes, has high testosterone.
00:58:27We would never want those war fighters going in.
00:58:29And you know, I want to say something else is that people are saying,
00:58:31"Well, what about the women?"
00:58:33Well, considering only about 10 people have read the memo, women will also be screened.
00:58:37They're also complicated. Like, it is more complicated.
00:58:40But if we can get screening done initially to protect our soldiers,
00:58:45then we have a way to do something about it.
00:58:47We can fix and identify and acknowledge that there's a problem.
00:58:50But the fact that it is so controversial,
00:58:53the fact that it has gotten people so upset is outrageous.
00:58:57But you do see a political camp...
00:58:59This is an agenda. I'm sorry to get conspiratorial,
00:59:02but I've watched it and I've been behind the scenes and I've been all the way to DC.
00:59:06And I've sat at the FDA. I've testified at the FDA.
00:59:09I've watched this play out. The same thing that happened with men and testosterone
00:59:13happened with women and women's hormones with the Women's Health Initiative.
00:59:16And I was a drug rep when they released that study.
00:59:20And the first thing the company did was hand me osteoporosis drugs.
00:59:24And all of a sudden, all of us were carrying osteoporosis drugs.
00:59:27And our job was to go into doctors and scare the hell out of them about,
00:59:31"You should never put a woman on estrogen again.
00:59:33You need to put them on an osteoporosis drug to preserve their bone mineral density."
00:59:37But guess what? That osteoporosis drug exasperated hot flashes, which is another issue.
00:59:43Now they need a hot flash drug.
00:59:45So you're selling them four drugs to fix what one natural hormone would have fixed that was there
00:59:50since the dawn of time. But the whole study was flawed to begin with. And that all got debunked.
00:59:56But it took 20-something years to bring estrogen back to women.
01:00:00I don't know how much the cultural conversation and the pushback around testosterone
01:00:05is to do with people understanding a study of three people from 1930.
01:00:09I think it's much more cultural than that.
01:00:12I think it's much more of a, what does testosterone represent generally?
01:00:16Well, I think that and also the same type of treatment that GLP-1 is given in terms of
01:00:22perception of taking a shortcut, right? Testosterone is often perceived the same way, right?
01:00:26You're not going to go lift weights and you're not going to pay attention to lifestyle factors
01:00:30and you're just going to throw a Band-Aid on it.
01:00:31But no one cares if someone's taking GLP-1.
01:00:33Exactly. No one's accusing somebody that lost a ton of weight on GLPs of being non-natty.
01:00:38Right.
01:00:38Right? But if you ever do a six-week course of fucking enanthate,
01:00:43that means for the rest of your time, your nanny status is gone.
01:00:46So what is it? Why that? What's the difference? And I think this is a good
01:00:49split test, right? You have two drugs, delivery mechanisms not too dissimilar. One's IM, one's
01:00:54sub-Q. Both can be sub-Q actually. Testosterone.
01:00:59So you can use them in similar ways. They achieve similar things like a leaner, more built physique.
01:01:04Why is it that testosterone's got this? Is it the sort of masculinized side of this?
01:01:09Is it aggression? What do you think?
01:01:12I think it's the performance-enhancing benefits in sports, and that's created a dogma.
01:01:16But who cares?
01:01:16Around everybody. Evidently.
01:01:18But take sports out?
01:01:19I think it goes beyond sports, though. I mean, there is simply a perception, I think,
01:01:23that if someone is on testosterone, they are taking a little bit of a shortcut when it comes to
01:01:31muscle mass recovery.
01:01:32But if they're low, are they taking a shortcut?
01:01:34If they're hypogonadal, they're not taking a shortcut. They're addressing a deficiency,
01:01:38but they're still the perception that you're not doing the work.
01:01:42And I think that feeds into it. I think some of it is the unfairness, potentially,
01:01:46of the sports performance angle as well.
01:01:48What happened to the end-hand schemes?
01:01:49I want a question for you.
01:01:50Do you not think that the indication is wrong today? Like, clinically low, too fasted.
01:01:58I have to be very careful about this. You are way too well-read.
01:02:01So basically what he's saying is our indication of 300 nanograms per deciliter, it's in different
01:02:06countries. Depending on where you live in Italy, it might be 350. That will determine what your
01:02:13definition of hypogonadal is.
01:02:14So the lower range of normal from a normal adult male in the US at the moment is 300 nanograms per
01:02:20deciliter.
01:02:21And that's too low, in my opinion.
01:02:23What's the upper bound?
01:02:24You think that the lower range should be raised?
01:02:26I think that, again, I want to couch this very carefully as a practicing physician.
01:02:32This is not medical advice, this is a fucking biohacking table.
01:02:35No, no, no. But listen, so I'm going to give you the answer.
01:02:37Just pass it to me under the table and I can say it. I'm not a doctor.
01:02:40So what I'm saying is that it's not just the number. So there is other things that go into
01:02:47effect. For example, and I figured this out. I had a guy who was from Homeland Security and his
01:02:52testosterone was 600 and he had all the signs and symptoms of low T. And I'm like, brother,
01:02:58I'm not putting you on tests. Just get more sleep. You're going to be great.
01:03:01And it turns out he had a CAG repeat, a CAG repeat. So the testosterone that he had
01:03:06wasn't effective because he had issues with the receptors. We all have different receptors.
01:03:12A testosterone of 900 for you might equal a testosterone of 300 for Brigham.
01:03:18Right. And then the CAG repeat is not a SHBG free available testosterone.
01:03:23It's an actual receptor issue. Whether or not it's getting converted into free,
01:03:27it's still not interacting with receptors. And we don't test those routinely.
01:03:30It's primarily done in research where we're still gathering the data as what the impact is.
01:03:34But the idea that number one, that testosterone is going to cause harm in physiologic ranges.
01:03:41So if someone is 300 or 500, but feel like crap, and it looks like they need testosterone,
01:03:49but they don't measure low, you know, in the medical world, we are, according to guidelines,
01:03:55not supposed to essentially treat that.
01:03:56That's where I was. And a lot of that is insurance-based too. And we go back to this whole conundrum of like,
01:04:02you can practice a sick care model, and it's a challenge because every single personalized medicine
01:04:07is exactly that. It should be personalized. Each individual is different, and their physiological
01:04:12response is different. But insurance will cover 299, but not 301.
01:04:15Well, does TRT create the same problem that Ozempic does, like people are pharmacologically solving a
01:04:20problem that lifestyle should have partially fixed? I don't think so.
01:04:23Is there an artificial solution to an artificial problem? I think some people are, absolutely.
01:04:29I mean, that goes back to what I was saying earlier about lifting weights and micronutrient
01:04:34replenishment and relationships and sunlight and de-stressing recovery and sleep. If you have all of
01:04:40those parameters in place, which a lot of people nowadays do, I think there can still be anything from
01:04:46environmental factors that influence testosterone availability. This is the endocrine disruptor
01:04:51discussion, the plastic discussion, personal care products and foods wrapped in plastic, which I think
01:04:56can affect that. There's the industrial pollution, air pollution, even light pollution having an effect
01:05:02on the stress and sleep component. I think we have a bigger uphill battle, including the fact that not
01:05:08a lot of guys are chopping wood and building fences and hauling rocks outdoors. And so I think it's a
01:05:16cluster of factors that influence a modern lifestyle, putting you at a higher risk for hypogonitis.
01:05:22We definitely have higher, higher levels of low tea than we ever have as a society. But then you also
01:05:27look like my good friend Callie Means breaks down the whole food system and ultra processed foods. And
01:05:33when did we see that spike? The big changes started happening in the eighties. And we can go back to
01:05:38like the infancy of how that occurred. As soon as the government began to regulate big tobacco, big tobacco,
01:05:45JP, uh, JP Philip Morris or whatever went out and started acquiring most of the major food production
01:05:50companies. And most of those major food production companies pivoted from healthy foods, more hearty
01:05:56meals to ultra processed foods. Ultra processed foods have a 30 plus profit margin. A banana has
01:06:02like an eight to 10% profit margin. So it's our food systems. It's our glyphosate rules and regulations
01:06:08around our crops. All of those things are controlled in much bigger dynamics. All I hear right now is that
01:06:14cigarette companies have made us less yoked. That's the story. But here's the problem. Let's say you
01:06:18take the warfighter. Everything that we named here is a luxury. The idea that you can sun your perineum and
01:06:27that you can go to bed early and you can sleep in and you can reduce light pollution. These are all luxuries
01:06:34that a warfighter, a new mom are not going to have. And so if we restrict the ability to treat based on
01:06:48allowing them to solve for lifestyle factors first, there is enough evidence to support that low
01:06:53testosterone contributes to disease risk that I wouldn't wait. Why would I wait?
01:06:59And you don't have the degrees of freedom within your lifestyle for certain people
01:07:03that have got constraints on their sleep, constraints on their ability to eat, etc.
01:07:07Yeah. I guess, Ben, you've experimented a lot, obviously, every performance intervention under the
01:07:11sun. Where does testosterone rank for you compared with sleep or resistance training or light or diet,
01:07:18stress, stuff like that? How important is…
01:07:20Yeah. In my defense, I actually have not sunned my perineum, so…
01:07:24Recently?
01:07:26Yeah. Since I've been in Austin, I haven't had the opportunity. I think it depends primarily on age,
01:07:37right? So I've been on testosterone for four years. I began when I was 40. The main thing I noticed was
01:07:42being able to recover a lot faster, being able to hit the gym for, you know, what I do in the morning
01:07:48that keeps me sane, keeps me active and keeps me productive and keeps my head clear. I can continue
01:07:52to do that day after day, whereas I was noting a significant increase in the amount of time that I
01:07:58needed for recovery between workouts just based on HRV, based on soreness. So I would rank it higher and
01:08:07higher in order of priority the older a man gets. I know we're talking about men, but obviously women
01:08:11are part of this discussion as well.
01:08:12Which they haven't really been studied nearly as well.
01:08:14Yeah. And I would say somewhere in the range of 35 to 40 years old, and most men, Gabriel probably
01:08:19has the actual demographic data somewhere tucked away in a giant book. It becomes pretty important. So I
01:08:27would say for me, as I age, increasingly important.
01:08:30Can I just... Sorry.
01:08:31One other thing that we should mention, of course, is the fertility discussion, right? The younger you
01:08:37are, and this is the problem with the old looks-maxing community of dudes totally screwing themselves
01:08:40over from like a legacy and childhood standpoint when they're 16 years old. We do need to bear in mind
01:08:46that a 30-year-old who may be hypogonadal and may still face some of this uphill battle in terms of a
01:08:53post-industrial lifestyle or a modern lifestyle. Keeping them that way and not being able to do
01:08:58things besides testosterone replacement therapy needs to know there's an impact on fertility,
01:09:02and the practitioner needs to be aware of like methods to maintain sperm quality at some point.
01:09:08I froze my sperm last year just in case I ever wanted to get on TRT at some point. I'm not on it,
01:09:13and I was like, ah. I just feel like it's probably a good insurance policy, and it is so cheap.
01:09:18You want to talk about some fucking patriarchy? One of the places that it definitely exists
01:09:22is how cheap it is for guys to freeze their sperm compared with wanting to freeze their sperm.
01:09:26Well, it's probably less expensive because you're using Mike's Butcher Shop down the street for
01:09:29the hand freezer. But it's a great solution. And also, just because someone goes on testosterone,
01:09:35there are, like you had mentioned, there are interventions like HCG. You have to work with
01:09:39a provider that knows. It doesn't mean you're going to be infertile. 10% of men just at baseline
01:09:45have low fertility. 2% of men have like no sperm. So if a guy is hypogonadal and he's younger,
01:09:53he should still be treated. You should bank his sperm. You should give him the appropriate
01:09:59discussion. Give him some HCG. But you wouldn't want to withhold a medical treatment. I just think
01:10:05it's a mistake. And if we don't de-stigmatize the idea that somehow testosterone is going to ruin the
01:10:14world and make them bald and angry. It's wrapped up in a moral panic. I'm kind of fascinated by,
01:10:18I've never thought about it before, but the equivalency of GLPs on one side and testosterone
01:10:24on the other. Morally, there shouldn't really be much difference between the two. One is helping
01:10:28you eat less and one is helping you build more muscle and your hormonal profile to improve.
01:10:32I get the sense that a good bit of it is that one side is quite male coded and one is to do with
01:10:38aggression and sort of dominance and pursuit and forward motion. And another is a somewhat more
01:10:44female coded, which is that it's helping you to lose weight. Maybe it'll be a little bit more slender.
01:10:49And this looks like health. And the other one looks more like luxury perhaps or unnecessary enhancement.
01:10:56Yeah. Everybody knows a fat person that loses weight. It's like, you didn't need that.
01:10:59So you can see it visually. You can't see someone's low testosterone in the same way.
01:11:04So I wonder, that's a really interesting. But what happens when a woman goes on a GLP-1
01:11:09and her testosterone is low, she tells her sister, "I have low testosterone. I'm going to start
01:11:14testosterone." She's like, "Oh my God, you're going to start steroids?" And then she's shamed.
01:11:18But so we know that a person will go on typically a GLP-1 for two years and come off.
01:11:24Now, essentially there's a weight cycling. So it becomes a skinny fat situation and they've lost
01:11:30now lean tissue and they put on fat. And let's say in a profile of a decreasing milieu,
01:11:37her estrogen goes down, her testosterone goes down, all her hormones go down. But then because
01:11:42of the stigma, she's ridiculed or shamed because now she's on steroids.
01:11:47And so in a moment where we have the ability to shift her life and her trajectory, she doesn't take
01:11:55it because of all the noise that she's now juicing. And that's a problem.
01:12:00I didn't even realize the stigma was that significant for women.
01:12:03It is. And testosterone for a man is the number one biomarker. There is no other biomarker that reflects
01:12:11the risk of type 2 diabetes, that reflects the risk of potential depression.
01:12:16And when you say biomarkers, is that like the whole hormone panel?
01:12:18Out of all of them?
01:12:19Total tea, free tea, everything?
01:12:21Yeah. Well, I mean, so I would say total testosterone, because again, it's really free
01:12:25tea, which is a really good point. But if I had to pick one biomarker, it would be testosterone.
01:12:31So let's say if we take that back to soldiers and we don't routinely screen them,
01:12:36that one biomarker will give us more information into their future than any other biomarker.
01:12:43I want to know what's happening with peptide access right now, because you were part of this big
01:12:48hearing that recently happened.
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01:13:44What happened inside of the FDA? What's going on?
01:13:53No, thank you. That's a good question. So I've been trying to ring the bell on this since it started.
01:13:58During the Biden administration, the FDA kind of in a vacuum blindsided the public by putting peptides on
01:14:04the naughty list and said these 17 peptides are now considered dangerous to compound. Meaning overnight,
01:14:11the regulatory landscape shifted. And so compounding pharmacies like mine legally could not make a safe
01:14:17product that had been in the market oftentimes for more than five to six years. And with no heads up,
01:14:24like we weren't seeing adverse safety data, nothing. One of the ways that I've tried to prove this is I
01:14:30submitted multiple FOIA requests to the FDA over the last three years and they had not responded to a
01:14:37single FOIA request. So when Secretary Kennedy was put into this position and was given the opportunity to
01:14:43try and drive change, this was one of the first things I discussed with him was, "Hey, we've submitted these
01:14:48FOIA requests. We haven't gotten answers. Industries just asking for guidance. We're not making this,
01:14:53but you created a gray and black market overnight." And so just two weeks ago, they federally indicted
01:14:59a gray market peptide manufacturer out of Florida who was buying all of his API from China that was
01:15:05not tainted with testosterone. And so women were injecting, injecting an API is the, um, pharmaceutical
01:15:12ingredients. So it's the base product that you use to compound the medication. Um, so that being
01:15:18said after a lot of lobbying, begging, pleading and flights to DC and, uh, thank God for guys like Joe,
01:15:25I'll say, you know, Rogan's been a voice on this and ringing the bell that, "Hey, why are we banning
01:15:30peptides? Why are we forcing people to gray and black market?" We had a hearing. Um, so, and that's a
01:15:36crazy story in itself. We could write a book on it. Literally they had the, the group built out. Um, we
01:15:42submitted over 800 studies, 800, 5,000 pages of documents. Um, we did a retrospective analysis of
01:15:4916 million patients that were on BPC-157. Out of that, we found three adverse events,
01:15:56three adverse events. Yeah. Somebody said that there by the hundreds of thousands of, of uses of
01:16:02multiple peptides, including BPC and like the, the number of adverse events was close to zero.
01:16:07Correct. And the versus let's look at the, this is one of the largest retrospective analysis ever
01:16:13done of a medication. And so I want to be clear because another famous influencer clinician just
01:16:18took to the internet and tried to debunk this hearing. Uh, the hearing wasn't about efficacy.
01:16:24We, this is what, this is a confusion for people. It's all about safety because what people fail to
01:16:29realize, again, going back to the process and the legal structure, if you file for a new drug
01:16:35indication, what I am asking you for is to give me Medicare, Medicaid, TRICARE dollars. I'm asking
01:16:40you to force employers to cover a treatment for an employee because 90% of Americans get their coverage
01:16:47through employers. And so that's the reason insurance plans go up every year because they're
01:16:51monetizing all this stuff. And so this is not that world. This is a cash pay product for a patient
01:16:57using their hard earned money to decide under the supervision of a clinician to fulfill this
01:17:02prescription through a board certified pharmacy that is inspected by both the state and federal
01:17:07government. And we had a safe pathway and that pathway was removed in a vacuum with no evidence.
01:17:13And then we went and argued with evidence submitted over 5,000 pages of studies and the FDA
01:17:21in this environment gave these clinicians literally like a week to review everything.
01:17:27So these doctors, these poor doctors are trying to cram for the test before they come in here.
01:17:31And we had submitted it a month in advance. And then the FDA releases a statement to the public
01:17:37with a black market peptide API data set saying we are going to stand against this most likely even
01:17:45if these clinicians vote yes. And by the way, here's a certificate of analysis from a compounding
01:17:50pharmacy. It wasn't a compounding pharmacy. It was a black market manufacturer that had already
01:17:55been shut down. So it was very misleading. That's a difficult question to ask. When we sat in there,
01:18:03the clinicians began to get so frustrated that at one point, one of the FDA individuals said,
01:18:08hey, look, I just want to be clear. We're not intentionally hiding or misrepresenting data.
01:18:13And the clinician was basically saying, well, yeah, it really feels like that. Like,
01:18:17it doesn't feel like you were giving us a shot at this. They ended up overturning six out of the
01:18:21seven peptides. But here is what was disappointing though, is the FDA all voted straight line one way.
01:18:26The clinicians that use these products and are actually clinicians end users in the medical space
01:18:31all voted straight line. Yes. And it was like, but here's clear which pathways they were on.
01:18:37This is a really good point because maybe you can clear this up is that
01:18:40physicians, practicing physicians will say, well, why are there no randomized control trials?
01:18:44Yeah. Why is this data mechanistic data? Why rodent models, animal models? If you can prove it
01:18:51mechanistically, then we should be able to see it in some type of randomized control trial. And I think
01:18:56that as we know- Yeah, that's great. So actually on BPC, we submitted I think four or six human
01:19:03studies. I can't remember. I don't want to tell, let's say four to be safe. At least four
01:19:06human studies. Now the issue with a peptide is you cannot patent something that is readily
01:19:11available in nature. That's patent law in the United States. So look at what's going on with the
01:19:15GLP ones. Yeah. 503 a patient specific pharmacy can compound a GLP one weight loss drug. It is
01:19:22infuriating the big pharmaceutical cartels because they're like, wait a second, we spent billions of
01:19:27dollars to make these drugs. And so a lot of the pressure on peptides as a class has come because big pharma is
01:19:35monetizing these at a new level. And so in one breath, you've got these big pharmaceutical
01:19:40companies telling the FDA, these are dangerous, these are this, these are that. In the next breath,
01:19:44Eli Lilly goes and spends $7 billion to acquire a peptide manufacturer out of China.
01:19:50Merck is attempting to patent over 200 potential future cutting peptides.
01:19:53But a lot of the physicians who are or were prescribing peptides, they, they have a pathway via an IRB to be able to start to gather data, right?
01:20:04Correct. And they're like, show what's actually working in that.
01:20:08But again, an IND in the, so the, and this is the general gist of the FDA stance from what I can gather being at this, I testified and gave my two cents on what I think and where we are and how we got here.
01:20:19But the general rebuttal of the FDA as a stance is, well, we have an IND process.
01:20:24So go get a new drug indication. And my rebuttal is apothecary precedes big pharma.
01:20:32The founder of Pfizer was a compounder. Compounding has been in existence for over a hundred years.
01:20:37In 1997, Congress passed a bill to protect compounders that said, we are going to allow the patients
01:20:43and clinicians to prescribe unique medications to a patient and provide accessibility. And the problem
01:20:50is if we hand the keys to the castle over to industry. And I said this in my speech to the Senate, if Eisenhower,
01:20:57everyone talks about Eisenhower speech in the military industrial complex, the second half of Eisenhower's
01:21:01speech. She talked about the scientific industrial complex and what would happen if we hand science
01:21:06over to industry. And if we allow industry to control our scientific processes and protocols,
01:21:11and that is where we are headed. And that is terrifying because what you will have is everyone
01:21:15getting the same dose GLP-1. You're going to have everyone getting the same, because this is what we
01:21:20have a double-blind placebo controlled trial on. And this is where academia drives me mad because when
01:21:25Rogan posted his pictures of plasmapheresis, some dipshit doctor like talks about how it
01:21:31wrecks the immune system. No, this is a 24 hour decrease in your immune response. And he talked
01:21:36about how there's no, this is not, this is pseudoscience. Plasmapheresis does have a double
01:21:42blind placebo controlled randomized trial. And that double blind placebo randomized trial showed that it
01:21:48actually took 18 months off of your biological age on people over the age of 50. But people want to
01:21:54split hairs and decide when they want to use double blind placebo controlled try randomized trials and when
01:21:59they don't. Well, here's what I've seen in medicine. But this is what is so relevant here is that
01:22:06there's a need for improved care. And because there's a need, that's why people are reaching
01:22:12for peptides. That's why people are looking for plasmapheresis. Typically, the consumer,
01:22:18the patient will drive forward, say, plasmapheresis for something that is different than, say,
01:22:24myasthenia gravis or something that is an indication. But this is how we start to grow. I mean,
01:22:31before no one thought mold was a thing. I moved to New York, I got really sick. No one was talking
01:22:36about molds, whatever, 15 years ago. And all my blood work was great. And I was living in, you know,
01:22:42stachybotrys. And now environmental testing is more of a thing. But there is the patient and then
01:22:49there's the need that we have to fulfill. And hopefully, the science catches up. The idea of
01:22:56randomized control trials, I mean, they're valuable. We still need that for peptides. Maybe not within your
01:23:01sphere, but the general medical community, they need randomized. My argument is this is about medical
01:23:09accessibility and medical freedom. And if a patient under the supervision of a clinician,
01:23:14under the guidance of the subject matter expert, wants to utilize a compound that is safe,
01:23:20who is the federal government to obstruct a safe pathway and force them to a dangerous pathway? And if
01:23:26people love randomized control trials, I would say, let's look at the products that have hit the market.
01:23:31What happened with OxyContin? What happened with all of the anti-inflammatories? What happened with
01:23:36antidepressants? In the second largest retrospective study analysis of a drug that went through randomized
01:23:42control trials, what did we see? 25 years later, what we saw is antidepressants don't fucking work. They
01:23:48work for a small subset of the population. They barely differentiate from placebo, yet they increase suicidal
01:23:54ideation, suicidal tendencies, violent thoughts. Most of the school shooters were on antidepressants.
01:24:02We have created a colossal disaster for a product that in its own scale that was developed from a
01:24:08Pfizer consultant does not differentiate barely by one point from placebo. But yet we've spent trillions of
01:24:15dollars on these medications.
01:24:16What happens with antidepressants?
01:24:19Who gets to decide how much risk people should be able to take with their bodies? Should the FDA
01:24:24protect people from making bad medical decisions? How much evidence should be required before adults
01:24:31can access experimental treatment?
01:24:33That's a difficult one. I think it's risk-reward. I say this with everything.
01:24:37Again, peptides are not a silver bullet. They're a tool in the tool belt.
01:24:41So for somebody who's a real-world example is Brett Favre. He's diagnosed with Parkinson's.
01:24:49This Parkinson's is terminal. It is progressive. The doctors basically say we've got nothing,
01:24:54but there are things that can help, that have a shot at helping. And a lot of those trials are in
01:25:01other countries and not accepted here, but there are modalities that he's getting benefits from.
01:25:07And those modalities are being obstructed. And so I believe in a patient's right to choose. And one
01:25:13of the things we're working on here in Texas, Congresswoman Lacey Hull is going to submit a bill
01:25:19in Texas that's going to be called the Right to Try Act. And the Right to Try Act is going to try and
01:25:23provide patients in Texas with medical freedom. And we're trying to do the same thing at the federal
01:25:28level. The belief is through citizens' petitions, if you're a chronically ill patient or you have a
01:25:34terminal disease or you have some sort of catastrophic debilitating issue, why is the
01:25:39government stopping you from using a stem cell product? Why is the government stopping you?
01:25:45This is the end of your runway. Beyond the threshold of severity in terms of your health,
01:25:49you're allowed to throw anything that you want at the wall within reason.
01:25:51I think you should. So a lot of that would still be out of pocket though, right?
01:25:55All of it's out of pocket. Yeah. None of this would be covered by insurance,
01:25:58which goes back to the main crux of the issue. Like if somebody wants to spend their cash
01:26:03right to son there, you know, like who are you to tell? If I want to fly to Thailand for WVs,
01:26:09I can do it. Yeah. I just got to pay for myself.
01:26:12People are leaving the country to go get treatments and it's like, these treatments should be available
01:26:17here. We don't need big brother impacting every decision. And I get like protecting the consumer,
01:26:24but where was that protection with glyphosate? Where was that protection with the antidepressants,
01:26:30with the Oxycontin, with the level of corruption we've seen from our regulatory bodies that are
01:26:35supposed to be here to protect us, right? And those people are swapping spit oftentimes with
01:26:40industry at a level that's nauseating. But it's challenging because you might be doing something
01:26:45in a way that is ethical. But if you've got another compounding pharmacy like in Florida where they're
01:26:52putting all this crap in, how do we protect the people? I do believe in medical agency that people
01:26:57should have the freedom to do whatever they want. If they want to use a medication because they have
01:27:02five pounds to lose, they should be able to get to choose. We should not as physicians ever dictate
01:27:09what an individual wants to do. There has to be agency. But then the question is how do we protect
01:27:15the people that don't know and think they're getting one thing? I think we have to assess it
01:27:19as a different model. That's where I keep going with this. There's the insurance model and then there's
01:27:23the cash pay model. And in the cash pay model, we don't need a new drug indication that costs 300 to
01:27:28a billion dollars because it's going to stifle and limit innovation. And that entire model was built
01:27:34around a framework that was built by industry that has a reason to build a moat around accessibility of
01:27:40care because they are monetizing chronic disease at an astronomical level. That's why the average
01:27:45American in the eighties was on one prescription drug. And now the average Americans on four or more
01:27:50prescription drugs and everybody's made, but we're the sickest country developed nation in the world.
01:27:55So in a perfect world for you, like in a cash pay model, there would be right to try in every
01:27:59state. I think right to try and under the supervision of a clinician. That's an important caveat.
01:28:05Like I believe in putting, I personally, I believe in, I believe in the sacred relationship of a patient
01:28:13and clinician. I believe that most clinicians, when given the opportunity, want to do what is right for
01:28:19their patient and oftentimes their hands are tied and they will go, I like, even you, you were very
01:28:25weary to say, yes, I have a patient who's sick, but I don't want to prescribe off label because it puts
01:28:30your license at risk. But that's a travesty because that patient needs help and we shouldn't have to
01:28:36look over our shoulder.
01:28:38And I remember, um, this was during COVID. I had written a prescription for an indication for
01:28:44ivermectin for something. This was before I was all crazy. And I got a letter saying that if I ever did
01:28:49this again, that it would affect my license. And it was a different, I mean, but it, but also this
01:28:56person, we test for parasites all the time. There was an indication that whatever, they didn't care
01:29:01whether I'd put that into, they shut us down as a pharmacy. They sent us a letter saying they would
01:29:04revoke our pharmacy license in the state of Texas. If we ship one more prescription of ivermectin,
01:29:10that they would shut down our farm. I can ship ketamine.
01:29:13But I'm not allowed to ship if I have a horse. But can you imagine as a provider being restricted,
01:29:21being told that it's crazy that I can't write a script for that can help someone, but who they,
01:29:27they don't know what I'm treating. We treat parasites all the time. And it was just, it's
01:29:31terrifying because providers, clinicians, we spent our lives dedicated to be able to care for people.
01:29:37Talking about experimental forward thinking stuff, getting into some fun things. What are the most
01:29:42exciting interventions that you've come across recently? Some of the most experimental things
01:29:47that you've been playing around with? Oh, man. I mean, we were just talking about
01:29:52plasmapheresis. That's an interesting one, just because there's all sorts of different
01:29:55blood and plasma filtration protocols that people are turning to for microplastics, for lipid management,
01:30:02for mold. Can you explain the plasmapheresis thing? I did it by the way it raised as well.
01:30:06Yeah, like literally like pulling your blood out, filtering the
01:30:11plasma, replacing typically with either albumin, or in some cases, like actual human plasma,
01:30:18or like Brigham has this, this soup of like stem cells and exosomes and all sorts of cool stuff
01:30:25that you can get put in. And so the idea is it's like an oil changed for the body. And you know,
01:30:33there's even places like in Mexico and Europe that will do blood filtration, not just plasma.
01:30:40Different filtration mediums that are designed for different purposes. Like there's a heparin-based
01:30:47filter that is designed for spike protein, right? Like a sticky flytrap for spike protein for something like
01:30:52long COVID. There's another one called the marker filter that is for microplastics. That's a specific
01:30:58filtration medium for that. So that's one that a lot of people are like electively doing out of
01:31:05pocket. A lot of times internationally, like TPE, like you can literally do that at Brigham's clinic.
01:31:10Like you can do a basic plasmapheresis very easily, you know, depending on, on how many times you're
01:31:15squeezing a little rubber ball that you get to hold two, you know, four or five hours, but you're just
01:31:20basically sitting in a chair. And then the problem with that though, is like when that was what I was
01:31:24alluding to earlier, when a guy like Joe posts that immediately, it's like, yeah, this is my moment
01:31:30for these clinicians. And they just tag his video and throw it up and they're trying to just riff and
01:31:35like coast off of the momentum that he created for it, debunking it. Right. And this is where I get,
01:31:41it's like, you're an academic. You're now trying to debunk a placebo controlled, randomized trial.
01:31:47Like at what point do we like pick, pick a side? Do you believe in randomized controlled trial or do
01:31:53you not? You know, like, well, presumably they're saying that they have contrary data to the first
01:31:58randomized controlled trial. Well, his, his main thing is, uh, there's only one major study that
01:32:03demonstrated this and the rest is anecdotal. Um, but they've used plasmapheresis in hospital
01:32:09systems for decades. So plasma is where they believe that the antibodies. So for example,
01:32:15if someone has a reaction to something within their body, depending on what the disease is,
01:32:19it exists within the plasma. It's concentrated somehow. Again, I'm not an immunologist, but
01:32:24to the best of my knowledge within this plasma, it's also where toxins and all this other stuff live
01:32:30that say, wouldn't be able to be excreted by the body through urine or feces or sweat naturally.
01:32:36So plasmapheresis is used in hospitals to this day where they use it for things that are, you know,
01:32:43extreme burn victims, anyone who's been exposed to a level of toxins, a real world example too,
01:32:49would be again, jelly roll. Like I hate to keep saying it, but he, because he lost so much weight,
01:32:54he was chronically inflamed, even though we were doing a ton of things to bring down his influence,
01:32:58all of that weight loss. You can only sweat it out so much. You can only excrete it so many ways.
01:33:03It ends up putting a major load on the kidneys.
01:33:05Right. And a lot of it back to like the plastic piece.
01:33:07But it's transferring.
01:33:09And then it started impacting his sleep. And then as soon as we run him through plasmapheresis,
01:33:13he calls me, he's like, "Bubba, whatever the hell y'all just did, I have not slept this great in years."
01:33:19Yeah. People talk about like a sauna for, you know, do the natural version, just sweat it out.
01:33:23But I mean, if you look at the size of a microplastic, they range like the unit of measurement is a Dalton.
01:33:29And so the size of a microplastic ranges anywhere from like slightly under a hundred to
01:33:34up to a thousand Daltons. And what a sweat gland can actually pass through is like a hundred Daltons.
01:33:39So arguably maybe one tenth of the microplastic exposure that you have,
01:33:43you can actually sweat out in a sauna. And considering that most of the microplastics,
01:33:47for example, in the food supply, like a plastic packaging or drinking out of a cup in Starbucks,
01:33:52are way larger than a hundred Daltons. You just can't get rid of that in the sauna.
01:33:56Like it's an inconvenient truth, but if it's getting into your body at this point,
01:34:01it's pretty difficult to remove it. There are, there are some gut binders.
01:34:04There's probably like 10 different supplement companies because I'd like,
01:34:07yeah, just over the past few months, people have been like mailing me whatever,
01:34:11like a sulforaphane based compound for microplastic removal or some other like binding,
01:34:17binding stack that supposedly removes it from the gut and possibly via some sort of osmotic gradient
01:34:23from the tissue as well. But none of those are that proven. And so, so that's an example of like,
01:34:29well, at some point you just got to filter it out. The problem with that is it's, you know, it's,
01:34:32it's a long and expensive protocol that not everybody's going to do.
01:34:35But eventually maybe there will be a way to democratize it. We've seen that with a lot
01:34:40of medical treatments. That's the goal with all of this is to make it affordable for the masses.
01:34:44And I think the biggest thing I've seen is- Yeah, I think we should on Shark Tank,
01:34:47like to suck it and just pull everything out. Wait, what is that? I've never seen that.
01:34:51We're going to come out with it. How long does it take your body to replace
01:34:54the plasma? Because I think this is one of the concerns. You've got this period of time,
01:34:57you've gotten rid of all of this plasma. You're immediately, what you'll do is we'll,
01:35:03we'll add back in albumin. At the same time.
01:35:05Yeah. You immediately have that replenishment. The big critique is, or what people have tried to
01:35:10critique is there is a drop in your immune system. But the truth is that drop is for 24 hours. So
01:35:17we were just talking to one of your buddies and he just did it, but then he got on a flight. I was
01:35:20like, Ooh, man, I would not have done that. And what happened? Did he get sick?
01:35:24He felt run down and not great. Yeah, it's that. There's also the
01:35:26risk of the catheter, depending on where that is placed, having like a rupture or an issue.
01:35:31But you have a compromised immune system for 24 hours. So that is a legitimate risk. And this is,
01:35:36again, anything in medicine, you have that discussion. You make sure you tell that patient for the next
01:35:4024 hours, you will have a compromised immune system. And then after that, your immune response is boosted.
01:35:46And all of that inflammation that was in the, in your plasma is removed. And all of those
01:35:51shock proteins and all these different things that are causing so many issues,
01:35:54we're basically taking out the trash and replacing years and years of inflammation and gunk and with
01:36:00albumin, young, clean albumin. What's albumin?
01:36:03It's literally a, yeah, it's just a protein that instead of, and some people will replace it.
01:36:08Same thing about egg white.
01:36:09Egg white has a ton of albumin in it.
01:36:11It's just basically.
01:36:12Egg white. You're putting egg white.
01:36:13Yeah, just get it.
01:36:13Yeah. I mean, very, very similar.
01:36:15Yeah.
01:36:15Okay.
01:36:16What are the strongest longevity interventions that are cost-free? Because much of this stuff
01:36:22sounds maybe difficult to access.
01:36:23It's the best people are outside of the country.
01:36:25So yeah. Epidemiologically, yes. Lifting, grip strength is often identified as a metric,
01:36:30but it's not because people who have like big meaty hands live longer. It's because people
01:36:35who, who, who lift heavy objects and do some type of manual labor or artificial manual labor
01:36:41inside of a gym tend to have high grip strength as a byproduct of that. So you're not going to live
01:36:46longer by having like a hand grip dynamometer in your car that you're squeezing all the time.
01:36:50It will make a little bit of a difference, but physical activity that exhausts the grip would
01:36:54be one. Uh, VO2 max is another. And I think the, the misperception is that you need to do like
01:37:02these like fancy Norwegian four by four protocols to significantly increase VO2 max, meaning like
01:37:08four minutes, maximum sustainable pace, balls to the wall, four minute recovery, four times through
01:37:13as a sample prescribed protocol for VO2 max. I mean, just yesterday, there was a study that came out that
01:37:19showed that small bursts anywhere from three to five times a week of 10 to 20 seconds had an impact
01:37:24on VO2 max. So these are like tiny bursts, like on, like on an airdyne, just quick sprints.
01:37:29You think a VO2 max of muscle mass is more important when it comes to training for longevity? If you
01:37:34could pick one. Uh, I would, I would choose, if I had to pick one, I would choose muscle mass because
01:37:42I think low muscle mass, I'm not just saying this because Gabriel's sitting next to me,
01:37:45higher risk for frailty. And I think frailty is one of the, like not being able to outrun a lion is less
01:37:53likely to kill you than like stepping off the curb and being frail. Like with the VO2 max equation,
01:37:58like joking aside, yes, VO2 max can have a significant impact on cardiovascular health,
01:38:04but you can get pretty good cardiovascular health, uh, including blood pressure management with strength
01:38:10training. So if I had to choose one, it's an unrealistic scenario. Anyways, based on how easy
01:38:14it is to do, you do both. And then the last one that I would name is like a free intervention. Uh,
01:38:21if we're not going to talk about like Harvard's longest running study on longevity and, you know,
01:38:26happiness, relationships, love all of that, boring, esoteric stuff aside, I would be walking speed. Um,
01:38:33yes, 7,000 to 8,000 steps a day is advisable, but the actual speed of walking, the, the, the pace,
01:38:39like the, the actual cadence of the walking is important. So VO2 max grip strength and walking
01:38:46speed would be the three that I would choose. Uh, I don't remember the actual like pace based on,
01:38:53uh, whatever you would measure quicker than you might think the way I think about it is like walk
01:38:59slightly faster than what your brain wants to do. There, there was, I don't know if it's still
01:39:03available device called a counter pace, like a heart rate strap that you could wear that tied to ear
01:39:07pods that tracks your heart rate and then helps you maintain a cadence that matches that heart rate
01:39:13so that your foot strike is occurring during the diastolic phase of no thing. So you're essentially like
01:39:19teaching your heart how to pump with each step. So that's very similar, like counter pulsation therapy,
01:39:24they would do it at a hospital, uh, for, for like post heart attack. Uh, but the idea is just like
01:39:30when you're walking, try to walk. It's like resonance breathing, but residents walking. Kind of like
01:39:34that. Yeah. You're up and down with the breath, but this, you know, step and step with the heartbeat.
01:39:38Yeah. That's fine. Okay. Yeah. Those would be three. I think if, if you were to, to look at the VO2 max versus muscle mass
01:39:45thing, if you were to say somebody is a, a five out of 10 on both, where would you stop? Because it seems
01:39:51to me that the muscle mass thing is largely talking about, uh, being protective in later life, frailty,
01:39:56falls, hip replacements, stuff like that. Metabolic health. Yeah. Um, I don't know. I just,
01:40:00coming from the background of being such a bro, VO2 max was never anything that anybody really considered.
01:40:07And it seems like that's really had the ascendancy recently. Yeah. And it gets chased a lot as a number.
01:40:11It's largely reflective of cardiovascular health. Yeah. I mean, it's definitely like if you're competing
01:40:16as like, I don't know, Ironman marathon or swimmer or whatever, like VO2 max isn't, is important
01:40:21as a performance metric. But the reason that it tracks with longevity is not necessarily because
01:40:28maximum oxygen utilization is going to help you live longer. At least I don't think that I think
01:40:32it's because it's reflective of overall cardiovascular health in the same way that grip strength,
01:40:36you know, having strong hands, I can hold onto something for a long period of time,
01:40:40isn't going to make you live longer, but what you got you those strong hands is everything,
01:40:44everything Ben's saying is like, that's when I, again, go back to what you do, what we do,
01:40:50comparing it to traditional medicine, somebody comes in. The first thing we do is comprehensive
01:40:54blood work. That's one tool in the one assessment, but we also run them through a DEXA. And then we do
01:40:59a VO2 max, a walking VO2 max to assess their cardiovascular condition. You give me those three things.
01:41:04I put it into the AI algorithm. I cross-reference all of that. And we begin to model out all cause
01:41:10mortality. And I can begin to project if you're headed towards a chronic disease. So like in
01:41:15traditional medicine, somebody shows up sick, you write them a pill, somebody gets it, you mask the
01:41:19symptom. And it's like, but why aren't we just practicing proactive predictive medicine?
01:41:24And like what you're doing in your practice, you can prevent 1.7 million Americans are dying every
01:41:29year of chronic disease. That's more than every war we've ever fought in the history of America
01:41:33in a year. And it's all preventable, but it's not longevity. And I, I wish there was another name
01:41:38for it because the reality is, and I think it's health span. I think it's muscle span, but yeah,
01:41:43health span. But I think, um, you know, as a geriatrician, which means I've taken care of a lot of dying
01:41:50people that there is a one harsh reality and that is nobody gets out alive, no one. And so is this,
01:41:59you know, increase in longevity, just a distraction from the end result, which is that we will all die.
01:42:07And at some point we have to recognize that, that it's going to happen. It is how we live within that
01:42:14timeframe. And, you know, maybe there's a genetic push past 85. We don't know. I mean,
01:42:19there's genetic, genetics play a role. We know some people that smoke and eat tacos and live to be
01:42:24105. So, um, yes, being strong, being capable, not restricting protein. I know that you had a
01:42:31guest that was talking about protein restriction. That's, that's, uh, not where I would say that.
01:42:37Well, not a lot of people need to hear that right now.
01:42:39You know, my argument is always, if we can buy you time, I would say if we can buy your healthspan time,
01:42:46it's the, keep you healthy longer. There are folks like David Sinclair, my buddy, Dr. Ian White,
01:42:51Ian's 22 years stem cell research at Harvard at the bench. Yeah. That's it. Those are interesting.
01:42:56And what he'll break down is pretty crazy. And this is why I have dinosaurs and jellyfish at
01:43:00our clinic. I was wondering about that. He literally breaks down that we share a common
01:43:04ancestor with every species on earth. We share DNA with the eternal jellyfish within us is a black box
01:43:11code. And there are companies in Texas right now that are doing gene activation. And we can literally
01:43:17inject you with a virus that will go turn on a gene that has been turned off, right? We can tell your
01:43:23body to put on more muscle. We can turn on a gene that can increase bone mineral density eightfold.
01:43:28These things exist today. And so my only thing getting more into the biohacking, woo woo, like
01:43:33futuristic. I'm not going there. Can we buy you time? Can we through common practice, not the woo woos,
01:43:39through just good old bread and butter, smart medicine, buy you healthspan until one of these
01:43:46brilliant people crack the code of how do we turn on that gene? How do we turn on the jellyfish gene?
01:43:51The jellyfish gene where we all lived for 150 years, floating in water, floating in the dark.
01:43:55Aging is not abnormal. The idea that we're not going to, I mean, aging is normal, but the chronic
01:44:00disease, that's not normal. That's not a normal part of aging. And we've come to normalize all of
01:44:07that. And that's a problem. So if we stop stigmatizing testosterone and allow us to replace the
01:44:13things that we need. Yeah. Well, perhaps there's a through line here because if you down-regulate
01:44:20fertility enough and don't have children, that might be a viable life extension strategy,
01:44:25sending a message to your lizard brain that you better stick around as long as possible because
01:44:30you have no progeny. So once you're gone, it's over.
01:44:32Hold on. You've got to hold on.
01:44:33So yeah, basically, I would say the most significantly, potentially significantly
01:44:39impactful life extension strategy- Not having kids.
01:44:41Don't have kids. Don't jerk off. Don't have kids.
01:44:44What do you make about the criticism? So Dr. Daniel Lieberman, who came on the show,
01:44:48and I asked him about what's he think the current recommendations coming out of, I guess,
01:44:53our side of the world around one gram per pound, one gram per kilo to one gram per pound of body weight
01:44:59for protein. And he just sort of looked and was like, I think it's overblown. I don't think that
01:45:04people need that much. It doesn't really seem to make that much sense to me from a longevity
01:45:09standpoint. It doesn't seem to be that much evidence. I've looked at every big diet on the planet.
01:45:13That's interesting. He wasn't invited to the protein working group, which was all the hundred
01:45:19finest protein scientists. And they disagreed on some things, and they agreed on others. I don't
01:45:25know this gentleman, so it's not a knock to him. But in this room, these were the finest protein
01:45:30researchers from all over. Would that not mean that they're kind of biased?
01:45:33No, they don't all get along.
01:45:35So some of them are low protein researchers?
01:45:37So, well, yes, they are all the protein experts. Some agree on 1.1. I mean, they're all over the
01:45:45place. So what they do is they present the evidence to the best of their ability, all the evidence that
01:45:51have been done. And what they came up with is that there is no evidence that going below the minimum
01:45:58requirement has benefit at all.
01:46:00So going below like 0.55 grams per pound.
01:46:04They argued, is it, could you go from, is 1.1 better than 1.4? Potentially, is anything
01:46:11better than 1.6 grams? No, no one agreed that. So that's not one gram per pound.
01:46:16What about protein cycling though? Like, like, like the idea from like an autophagy
01:46:20standpoint of like a fasting mimicking diet on a quarterly basis or a period of protein restriction
01:46:25to simulate or stimulate autophagy. And then most of the time, you're actually eating,
01:46:31what are the 0.8 to 1.2 grams per pound. So to be clear, I was not invited there as a guest
01:46:36researcher, but I was there interviewing these guys. And one of the things that was interesting
01:46:41is that in terms of human trials, it seems as though the sweet spot for aging and optimal health,
01:46:50to find that as you will, is closer to 1.2 to 1.6 grams per kg. So it's not one gram per pound,
01:46:58which is what I recommend. It's slightly below that. And what you're talking about is this idea
01:47:03of protein cycling. So the body turns over 250 to 300 grams of protein a day. As we age,
01:47:10we become less efficient at that, liver turnover, all of this stuff. As we age,
01:47:15if we then begin to restrict protein, this is not moving in a positive direction. And all the aging,
01:47:21there's no aging data in humans that would suggest that that would be beneficial.
01:47:26Is his argument that we're over consuming protein? The data doesn't supply. I was going to say,
01:47:30because most people, I feel like everyone I know doesn't. I think he was making an epidemiological
01:47:34case. Or observation or association. If I know the Lieberman you're talking about,
01:47:39that you don't come across a lot of long-lived cultures who are feeding at the levels that are
01:47:45currently recommended, you know, by, by, uh, you know, a kook like this.
01:47:49Here's what's, do you not see? Cause I, yeah, I'd like to keep it simple,
01:47:54stupid. Cause my brain's not smart enough to figure all this out.
01:47:57I did give you my book, which has pictures.
01:47:58Yes. And I've read, I've read it, but what I learned,
01:48:01Reagan tried to color them in. That's why it wasn't.
01:48:02Yeah. I was, I thought it was a coloring book.
01:48:05To be fair, my, the forever strong playbook, I will give it a plug. It took me two years to write,
01:48:09and it has pictures to make it simple and stupid.
01:48:11And it's digestible. I love, I love it. And my, my main thought is we, yeah, if we prioritize,
01:48:17I've learned in my life, if I prioritize protein, it is a caloric dense nutrient rich aspect of my diet.
01:48:25And I will eat less of the ultra processed, less of all the bad things. Just anecdotally. I'm not
01:48:31saying there's no science behind what I'm saying. I'm just looking at it going, if I prioritize protein,
01:48:35it fills me, it fills my appetite. Yeah. It's hard to overeat on protein.
01:48:39I can't, oh, it's hard to overeat. Right.
01:48:41Yeah. If I eat a steak, I'm done. Yeah. Like, yeah.
01:48:44And so do you not see a value in, or would he not see a value in prioritizing protein first
01:48:50as part of your diet? You're, you're, you're, you're arguing for
01:48:53the benefits of protein intake as a calorie restriction mechanism.
01:48:57Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And do you know, I imagine, I imagine he would,
01:49:01I imagine he would do too. I think my question was something like,
01:49:03what do you think about one gram per pound of body weight?
01:49:05It's on the higher end.
01:49:06Yeah. That seems, that seems to be more than is necessary.
01:49:08I, I would agree with that statement. That is more than is necessary.
01:49:12I mean, it depends too. Like I have 18 year old sons and they're probably hitting
01:49:161.4 to 1.5 grams per pound right now based on my grocery bills.
01:49:21Um, but they're also highly anabolic. They're going like these, they're lifting every day.
01:49:25So, uh, it's, it's pretty population specific.
01:49:28What about that is exactly what they came to in the summit.
01:49:31What about fiber? Because I'm, I've been pretty good at sort of licking my finger,
01:49:36putting it in the air and working out what way the wind's blowing. I think the protein thing,
01:49:39everyone could see a little while ago, creatine. I was early on creatine. I was early on, uh,
01:49:45water quality. I think air quality, stuff like, uh, Jasper and mold.
01:49:49I think that's going to be a huge thing.
01:49:50Love Jasper. Yeah.
01:49:51Next after that, I think is going to be light, light quality and light pollution, I think.
01:49:55And it's slowly sort of trickling through the echelons of, of, of health fiber to me seems to
01:50:01be just about sort of taking that it's at the hockey stick moment here. And I get the sense that
01:50:08protein and fiber are going to be a little antagonistic to each other when it comes to
01:50:12designing a diet. So I'm interested in what you guys think when it comes to
01:50:15fiber optimizing gut health, everyone gives a fuck about bloating and digestion and leaky gut.
01:50:19That's exactly it. I don't think that, that, uh, high protein intake necessarily rules out fiber,
01:50:25but what you were just saying is the one thing that flies under the radar. Yes. Uh, fiber, um,
01:50:31is, is beneficial for everything from glycemic variability to bowel movements, to, uh, the,
01:50:38the microbiome and the fact that it's, it's often a food for, uh, probiotics leading to postbiotic
01:50:44production. The issue is the large number of the population that has issues like small
01:50:49intestine bacterial overgrowth or diverticulitis or some form of, of, of IBS or an issue that results
01:50:57in them hearing that the giant ass kale salads are a really good idea. And that should, they
01:51:01should put a bunch of spinach in their smoothies and just totally F's them over and they're painting
01:51:05the back of the toilet seat. So I think that it depends again on like what the gut biome looks like
01:51:11and what someone's, especially like, like the gas production by specific bacteria in the gut looks
01:51:18like before you decide what kind of fiber someone should be on or the fermentable nature of that
01:51:24fiber, like inulin and chicory root and shit like that completely screws some people over as far as gas
01:51:29and cloning. And then for other people, it's great gut food. It feels like fiber is much more, uh,
01:51:34individually variable that you could probably look at most people and say, yeah, if you had like one
01:51:39gram per kilo of body weight of protein, like you'd probably be all right. Whereas yeah, if you threw
01:51:43a bunch of oxalates at one person from spinach, that's not being cooked, they're going to have a
01:51:48very different response to somebody else who doesn't have that kind of gut microflora.
01:51:52Yeah. I think that's, I think that is a frontier that we don't know enough about. My prediction is the
01:51:58food matrix conversation is next. The bro bodybuilding sphere. We're great. There's a, I guess I would
01:52:04include myself in there, boiled chicken, egg whites. We know what the protein is. We know the macros,
01:52:10rice, chicken, but what we don't know is how, for example, there was a study that came out on high fat
01:52:15dairy. We don't actually understand how the fat in dairy, the compounds then work with the protein
01:52:22and the carbohydrates within that food matrix. It's not repeatable. It's not supplementation.
01:52:28It is within the dynamic of, say, for example, a steak, yes, has protein, yes, has B vitamins,
01:52:34but it has and searing, taurine. It has these other, what you imagine as a phytonutrient in plant.
01:52:42It has its own carny nutrient and it's how those all fit together. We don't really know how the foods
01:52:49all work together. Is it possible for you guys to give general advice when it comes to fiber and eating
01:52:57for gut health through a diet? Because it seems, again, this fingerprint, each person's flora is
01:53:03slightly different. What are the, we can say, hey, one gram per kilo of body weight protein,
01:53:09that's probably a good baseline. Can you give me equivalent baselines when it comes to fiber intake
01:53:14for humans who just want to have good diet? Well, I can cheat here because I'm a doctor,
01:53:17so we test. We don't guess. We do stool tests. We do breath tests. We do tests. So if you have
01:53:23small intestinal bacteria overgrowth, we would treat that. We would put you on a diet that was
01:53:27essentially low FODMAP. So there's ways that you can experiment, but also test so you're guessing less.
01:53:33And low FODMAP isn't necessarily synonymous with low fiber, but you're literally eliminating fruit
01:53:39tans, oligosaccharides, disaccharides. What else? Monosaccharides and oils. And so these are specific
01:53:48compounds that if you were to Google high FODMAP diet, you would want to avoid because those are
01:53:52sources of fiber that would cause gas and bloating. But that doesn't mean that you can't eat fiber at
01:53:57all. You can do like, like on a low FODMAP diet, you can do like chia seeds slurry, right? Like put
01:54:02a bunch of chia seeds in water, soak them, have that as like a pudding. A lot of times like seeds and
01:54:08nuts, you know, the fiber in the skin and those that would also be acceptable. But then like apples,
01:54:12pears, garlic, onions, all that stuff would be out. And in some cases, like mixed greens, romaine lettuce,
01:54:19like a lot of things you'd put in a salad. Those are fine. You know, kale, it kind of depends.
01:54:23Cause then there's the whole thing you brought up, which is like, is oxalate sensitivity an issue?
01:54:27So Gabriel makes a great point. It's like, we now live in an era where you could get like a
01:54:31Genova diagnostic stool test. You could get a trio smart, you know, a SIBO breath test
01:54:36and see if you're reactive to certain fiber-based foods. Those tests are not that expensive.
01:54:40This is what I mean though. Like we can't just give this...
01:54:42Well, hey, you're going to get to breathe into a tube every 20 minutes for a couple of hours.
01:54:46What you could say is like have 40 grams of fiber a day or more. And if you have gas or bloating,
01:54:51when you start doing that, go get tested to figure out what's causing the gas and bloating.
01:54:54Yeah. We always say yes, but like, yes, this is a good rule of thumb, but there's always outliers.
01:55:03Everybody's different. Personalized medicine should take a personalized touch. To do that,
01:55:08it requires the analytics and the data to have the knowledge of you specifically. And you're a unique
01:55:13individual. So let's look at you as a unique individual and tailor a unique program. And it
01:55:17sounds like almost that's what you are both saying. This is why people feel overwhelmed by health in
01:55:22the modern world. Because they're like, oh, well, I've got to go and get this fucking special
01:55:25fingerprint thing done. And I don't know where to go. And maybe I'm in a country that can't provide it.
01:55:28Or maybe I'm going to have to pay out of pocket and I can't afford it. And then I'm going to do it.
01:55:31And then I'm going to adjust to my stuff. There are workarounds and there are levels.
01:55:35Like for example, with what we're talking about with the FODMAP and the SIBO issue,
01:55:39there's like an at-home breath testing device called a food marble. And it gets a pretty decent
01:55:43corollary. It's not as good as like a more expensive lab-based test, but it can help you to
01:55:47keep track of primarily the fiber-based foods that will cause something like bloating. The other thing
01:55:53is just simple food elimination, right? This is the old school tactic for, well, let's cut everything
01:55:59out. Let's start from scratch. You're going to have steak and chicken and fish and maybe some sweet
01:56:03potato mess, kind of like a paleo-esque type of approach. And then you could start to add in
01:56:09some grains, some dairy, some different forms of fiber, and you're going to get to the point where
01:56:13you can identify within like four weeks. You use an app, right, to track what was it that I added in.
01:56:17You could use an app. I mean, you can easily use like a clot or GPT model now to literally say,
01:56:21okay, here's everything I ate. Here's my gas and bloating symptoms. And within four weeks,
01:56:25you're going to get a pretty good map of the culprits. It doesn't have to be complicated to be
01:56:29effective. And we live in the information overload and that's the disease. The disease is distraction.
01:56:37We can fully simplify. People know what works well for them. If they don't, they can track it. But
01:56:43you eliminate, you keep it simple and you add things in slowly. I think we overcomplicate it.
01:56:48Yeah, that's what we were saying. That's kind of where I was going with the protein. As I say,
01:56:51don't let perfection get in the way of progress. And it's baby steps. You don't have to be perfect.
01:56:57Just be better. Make slightly better choices. Test things out. You're not going to die if you try a
01:57:03fiber and it doesn't work out for you and you're bloated and have stomach upset for a few days.
01:57:07There was a pear bezoar. Someone ate, it was something like 300 pears and they actually got a,
01:57:14you know, the hair ball of a, it's actually called a pear bezoar and it created a small bowel
01:57:20obstruction. Who the fuck eats 300? There was one case study. I think 300 anything is going to cause
01:57:25a small bowel obstruction. It was a case study. I could easily get 300 blueberries too.
01:57:28Because I was looking at fiber maxing and this is what I thought.
01:57:30I will take on the small bowel obstruction challenge. I could make it happen. Do you guys follow a
01:57:34specific diet? Yeah, it's called a forever strong playbook.
01:57:39What is it? No, no. Um, so it's a higher protein diet. I don't eat a ton of processed food at all.
01:57:45Um, prioritize protein. We make it very simple. I have two crazy kids.
01:57:48And what about like grains, dairy, like a lot of the stuff that people avoid.
01:57:52And I think we're starting to see that it has, uh, protective effects. We do high fat dairy,
01:57:57fermented foods. Um, the one thing that we don't eat is a ton of packaged processed foods.
01:58:02Yeah, aside from like beef sticks. Right.
01:58:05But it's, we'll eat sweet potato. We'll eat rice. I'm not a low carb person.
01:58:09Yeah. It sounds, it sounds very like Weston, a price-ish where, like grains aren't eliminated,
01:58:15but they need to be like fermented or soaked or sprouted. Dairy is like the full fat varietal,
01:58:21good meats, fermented vegetables. Where have you come into land now, Ben? Obviously you've experimented.
01:58:26Um, I'm, I'm pretty close to a paleo diet with a lot of fermented vegetables that like I,
01:58:33like most of my carbohydrates are like underground storage, uh, organs, like sweet potato,
01:58:38yam, purple potato, berries, and honey. Uh, most of my vegetables are kimchi, sauerkraut. Um,
01:58:47and then a lot of hunted wild game meat, uh, super clean fish that is farmed, not wild caught. So I know
01:58:56the exact sourcing and that it's clean, what has been fed, um, steak, chicken, poultry, or, um, um,
01:59:03pastured pork. And then I do like my dessert is typically, uh, coconut yogurt. Like I go through
01:59:10that, uh, what was it called? Coco June. So good. Oh my gosh. That's the brand.
01:59:15Oh, it's so good. Coco June, blueberries, dark chocolate is not only my dessert,
01:59:19but I've eaten twice today. And that was my meal was just Coco June, blueberries, dark chocolate.
01:59:24Uh, and then, and then a little bit of Macadamia nuts, Brazil nuts. And, uh, that's pretty much it.
01:59:31Besides all the peptides.
01:59:31Where are we getting a fish from? A company called Seatopia. They've got like 30 plus different farms
01:59:38around the world and they very tightly control what the fish is fed. They are tested for things
01:59:45like microplastics, uh, parasites, and then they flash freeze and ship to your house. And they've
01:59:52got a pretty good varietal, just like, or a king salmon and halibut, uh, some shellfish, scallops.
01:59:58Uh, and it's the cleanest stuff I could find.
02:00:01What was that steak company that you- And I hope they've got a check in the mail now to me.
02:00:05Uh, the, the steak place- Because that was insane.
02:00:07Okay. So this crazy breed of cattle- Piedmontese.
02:00:10That originates- Piedmontese. Piedmontese. Piedmontese fucking rules.
02:00:13Yeah. Shout out.
02:00:15It's not Piedmontese. No more Piedmontese.
02:00:16Piedmontese kind of. So this breed of cattle originated from the Middle East and A,
02:00:22they have the myostatin knockout gene. Yep.
02:00:25Meaning they've got this like unparalleled muscle growth- They're jacked.
02:00:28Big Arnold Schwarzenegger-esque cows. The result of that is that the muscle fiber thickness is like
02:00:35one-sixteenth the diameter of a normal like Angus cow. So it's super digestible. Like a medium rare is
02:00:42like 95 degrees. That's how fast it cooks. But then these cattle have also developed,
02:00:47based on their origination, sweat glands, which is also something that is less common, but one of the
02:00:53key contributors to, um, to off flavored or tough meat in general, whether it's hunted meat or farmed
02:01:01meat or anything else- Sweaty cows. I have no idea.
02:01:04It's cortisol. So cortisol upregulation causes calcium influx, basically the, the, you know,
02:01:09the effects of like- Stressed sweaty cows.
02:01:10Chronic rigor mortis. But a cow that can manage thermal stress eliminates one of the most common
02:01:16sources of cortisol in cattle, which is like, uh, being subjected to extremes of heat or cold and being
02:01:22unable to deal with it. So these cows wound up in Canada. There was like a Canadian farmer up north
02:01:29on the west side who had like one bull and three cows, uh, a guy, a horse farmer in Washington state
02:01:38connected with these folks in Canada like 30 years ago. This better be the best-
02:01:42Shipped some across the border. This is like the Adam and Eve of the cow world.
02:01:46A year, a year and a half ago, I get an Instagram message from this farm by Spokane and they're like,
02:01:54we have the only 100% pure Piedmontese beef in all of North America. And you can only find this stuff
02:02:00now in Italy and the Middle East. So it hasn't been bred with Angus, which, so a lot of the
02:02:05Piedmontese is like 75, 25 or 50, 50. So then I actually went to the farm, long story short,
02:02:12is I'm like, was it grass-fed, grass-finished? They're like, no, it's like grass-fed, acorn-fed,
02:02:16pressed wine, grape-skin-fed, carrots, like customized from birth,
02:02:24And so, so long story short is I got a whole steer and these things are massive. Uh, it, I,
02:02:31I got it like almost two years ago and I'm still, or they store it all at the farm and then they
02:02:36shipped to me. So I'm still ordering off this spreadsheet. Like me and my wife and 18 year old
02:02:40sons have still not eaten this whole cow. It's like a time chef of food. That's the meat. It is,
02:02:44it is the weirdest meat. He dropped, shipped me some, and now I knew.
02:02:47So lean, they, they butchered it. And I'm like, I would love to have some of the tallow. Cause you
02:02:54know, tallow is great to cook with and do your potatoes with. They're like, dude, there is no
02:02:57tallow. These things are so lean that there's just like no dripping, no fat whatsoever. So when you cook
02:03:03it, I actually use a lot of extra like olive oil towel, extra or tallow, extra fat, because I think the
02:03:10flavor profile, when you don't have the fat is just still a little bit too lean. Um, but yeah,
02:03:17that's, that's the stakes. So wait a second. So the, the listener or the watcher is thinking
02:03:22I'm never going to get that cow. You know, I tried to get some of this meat. I couldn't get it.
02:03:25I talked to the founder. I'm like, how many cows do you guys have? It goes to the,
02:03:30they do a lot of like NHL. They do. They do. Okay. But for the other people,
02:03:34there are meal delivery services. I use one that's only in Texas and Oregon and Denver.
02:03:41And they use, there's this company, gosh, what are they? Not Piedmontese. What is it? Grazing.
02:03:46There's another one. Well, I don't know. Did the delivery drivers have sweat glands though?
02:03:51But I just say that for someone who's listening. So anyway, there is a company
02:03:54and it's called My Fit Foods and they're available in Texas. They use grass fed, grass finished is for
02:04:00those of us that can't get the crazy. What about beans? I haven't heard you say anything about beans
02:04:05in your time. They have beans in it. Beans do not agree with me. So I don't want to talk about those.
02:04:10Uh, no, it is, it is interesting because you see the whole like blue zones data, which,
02:04:16which is rife with, with birth record issues and falsified data. But I think you could make a case
02:04:23that legumes and beans in general do provide good fermentable substrate for the microbiome.
02:04:29It's just that in many people, including myself, those bacteria produce massive amounts of gas.
02:04:35Um, I'm not a chili guy. I don't know about you guys, but I love, I love chili. I don't know whether
02:04:40it loves me, but I absolutely love it.
02:04:43So why the fiber? Why are you interested in fiber?
02:04:45I just have this prediction, seeing what's happening with probiotic fiber at the moment,
02:04:52Ollipop, poppy, bloom pop, that, that whole world. Um, looking at what happened with AG1,
02:04:59with companies like seed, with David Beckham's new thing, IMA, like everybody is, if you want to sell
02:05:05shit to women, put bloating on the front of a piece of packaging, right? Every woman's worried
02:05:09about bloating. How much of this is just artificial solution to artificial problem? Tons of high calorie,
02:05:15highly processed foods, sugar, fermented foods. Maybe there's some EPG in there or some other
02:05:19bullshit going on. Like whatever it is that's happening, it's causing people to feel digestively
02:05:24off. And now they're looking for what the solution is. I, I, we've already been through the protein
02:05:29revolution, creating revolutions happening now. I, I already know. I think people are now buying more
02:05:37fiber supplements than protein supplements. I think the problem is that paradoxically fiber
02:05:43contributes to a lot of the issues that you just described. And, and I think the, the elephant in
02:05:49the room is that one of the primary causes of all of that gas and bloating is lack of digestive enzyme
02:05:56production and, um, uh, slowed gastric emptying. And most of the things that happen when you eat
02:06:03quickly or in a stressed out state, which basically defines a lot of our culture's eating habits.
02:06:07So I think that like slow, slow eating and eating in, in a parasympathetic state
02:06:13would be way better for people's gas and bloating than like sucking down a bottle of inulin.
02:06:17Did you see that study that came out recently looking at people eat people's eating speed
02:06:21in the GLP one endogenous GLP one release? Did you see this? Can you explain it?
02:06:26Yeah. So the body releases GLP one naturally, typically it rides. And I didn't see this study
02:06:32particularly, but it rides with protein. So once you get a protein bolus, it should release GLP one.
02:06:37It should be very short lived and you should be done. Protein increases satiety through this mechanism.
02:06:43Also, I believe that there's some fat, but the faster you eat, the faster it gets there.
02:06:48I'm assuming that the GLP one would have less. Yeah. So grazing more slowly
02:06:52meant that you got a higher release of GLP one, which meant that you were more satisfied more quickly.
02:06:57Satisfied more, but the question is how long does that, yeah, how long does that last?
02:07:01That would not be comparable to a long half-life of a GLP one. Yeah.
02:07:06Period. I mean, all I know is that if you look at digestive enzyme production and you look at like
02:07:14vasoconstriction, lack of blood flow to the gut, slowed gastric emptying, like it is better for you
02:07:19to not suck down your superfood smoothie while you're driving 60 miles an hour down the highway on
02:07:25your way to work. And I'd rather just see someone fast or wait until they can actually be in a
02:07:30parasympathetic state to eat. What's the current data around fasting? Because it seems to have
02:07:35been bunked and rebunked so many times. Autophagy, maybe it does work, maybe it doesn't work.
02:07:42Is it just calorie restriction? Is it an easier route to calorie restriction? Is there something
02:07:45super special about 16-8s? So the basic idea is that when you go head-to-head something like an
02:07:54intermittent fasting study with overall calorie restriction, there is no big winner. There's
02:08:01nothing magic about fasting that beats out just like shoving fewer calories into your gaping maw.
02:08:07The advantage is that with a compressed feeding window, it becomes more difficult to eat excess
02:08:14calories. And that's mostly the case until you get past about the 18-hour mark of fasting.
02:08:20Past the 18-hour mark, that's when you start to see cellular autophagy and a lot of these longevity
02:08:26mechanisms kick in that could make the case for an occasional longer fast. Obviously, like activity
02:08:33level and what kind of anabolic phase of life that you're in, et cetera, would dictate that. But my
02:08:38recommendation to most men is like a 12 to 16-hour overnight intermittent fast and every once in a
02:08:45while go longer than 18 hours, like a 24-hour dinnertime to dinnertime fast, like once a month,
02:08:50for example. And then back to that protein cycling, protein restriction thing, something like a quarterly
02:08:55fasting mimicking diet, right? Where you're slightly underfeeding protein,
02:08:59slightly underfeeding calories, but it's just for a few days to simulate like a famine type of cereal.
02:09:05Yeah. And then the reason I said for men is for premenopausal women, regularly fasting for longer
02:09:11than 12 hours may have an impact on kispeptin, which is upstream of LH and FSH, which are fertility-related
02:09:18hormones. And so, women close to the 12-hour mark, guys close to 12 to 16 hours, postmenopausal women
02:09:24would be closer to the 12 to 16-hour mark. But that's basically the way that I do fasting is
02:09:3112 to 16 hours, intermittent fast daily, quarterly fasting mimicking diet about once a month, 24-hour
02:09:36dinner to dinner. So, you're saying there is something special in the autophagy, in the cell
02:09:41clearance, intermittent versus grazing and just restriction? Once you get past 18 hours, but in
02:09:48most cases, the definition of intermittent fasting is not these like long one to three-day fasts.
02:09:54Intermittent fasting is typically like a daily compressed feeding window and usually it tops out
02:09:59at around 16 hours. But you think there is some special source in a 24-hour fast?
02:10:03There is occasionally. You just have to balance like the anabolic, catabolic scenario.
02:10:06Yeah, there's other ways to do it. Yeah.
02:10:08You know, through training, there's different mechanisms.
02:10:11Yeah, there's sauna, cold, thermal stress. Yeah, there's other ways.
02:10:13And so, if you are somebody who is at risk of frailty, or you're just trying to get yoked,
02:10:21or older, or whatever. No one who's at risk of frailty listens to this podcast.
02:10:24That's not true. My mom does.
02:10:25She's not at risk of frailty. This is true.
02:10:27Hi, Gabriel's mom.
02:10:29Talking about longevity tests, you know, we're looking at the things that people should
02:10:33be paying attention to. Where do you think people are wasting money or effort or time
02:10:39the most, either on diagnostic or intervention side things for health more generally? Like,
02:10:46is there a particular type of test that's widely regarded that people think is bullshit?
02:10:50And what do you reckon?
02:10:53I mean, there's ones that we even do, but it just gives you more knowledge, like the MTFHR. But you
02:10:59can do that through process of analysis of elimination, like you had said, like cutting,
02:11:03adapting which supplements you take and using methylated supplements. There's, is it a necessity?
02:11:09No, if you, you could just do that through process of elimination and save the money.
02:11:13I think, and this might be a little bit of a contrarian stance, but I think there is a great
02:11:19deal of emphasis placed right now on cardiovascular risk potential based on either a cardiovascular risk
02:11:26score, right? Do you have high blood pressure, smoking history, family history of cardiovascular disease,
02:11:31et cetera? And what does your lipid panel look like? Right? Not, not just like the basic stuff
02:11:36like LDL, HGL, triglycerides, LP little a, Apple B. The issue is that that can be a clue,
02:11:44but definitely not a telltale sign of actual plaque deposition in the heart. And I am increasingly
02:11:53convinced after seeing so many people come back from their CCTAs, like an angiography of the heart,
02:12:00like a CT scan, usually with AI-based diagnostic imaging, clearly to actually show, yes, where hard,
02:12:06more stable, hard plaque, which you would typically see in more of like an athletic population who
02:12:11scarred up their heart a little bit or unstable, more likely to break loose plaque resulting in a
02:12:16stroke or heart attack lies, right? So the AI-based diagnostic imaging can tell you that. And the
02:12:22reason that's important is because in many cases, people, including myself, have a pretty good lipid
02:12:27panel, right? LDL, HGL, triglycerides, yada, yada, yada. But then you do the CT angiography and you
02:12:33actually see plaque deposition that if not monitored and addressed either, you know, allopathically with like
02:12:40a like lodostatin or a PCSK9 inhibitor or something similar. Exactly. Or
02:12:48more non-traditionally, right? With enzymes like lumbrokinase, natokinase, there's a new cyclodextrin
02:12:55that's being in trial right now to actually break down the plaque. You actually could be at risk and not
02:13:02even know it. Or you could alternatively like be on a statin or a path or whatever else due to high
02:13:07cholesterol and not even need it because you don't have any plaque deposition. So the idea of like
02:13:12imaging for the heart, you know, indirect answer to your question is like, I think myopically focusing
02:13:19on a lipid panel is either A, causing people to be prescribed a medication that they might not need,
02:13:25or B, telling them they're okay, when in fact there can be significant plaque at play. So you're saying
02:13:30rather than obsessing over lipid panel, you would just go and get a clear list going down? I think
02:13:34anybody who has a history of heart exercise, anybody who has a family history of cardiovascular disease,
02:13:39I'm not a doctor, by the way, don't take this as medical advice. I think even like perimenopause,
02:13:46you know, that the risk goes up significantly. We always get what you're saying.
02:13:49You should get a CT angiography. So traditionally, which is really interesting, after men leave the
02:13:56pediatrician, there's no need for them to go to the doctor. For example, women go to OBGYN,
02:14:02you know, they get a gynecological exam, but men, they leave the, why would you have to go to the doctor?
02:14:09They don't really have a reason, which is a mistake. So getting a baseline testosterone, baseline
02:14:15cardiovascular testing is great. Like your boy's age now, but then not necessarily treating with
02:14:22medication, having a baseline exam by 40 P I, we recommend that you have a baseline heart scan,
02:14:29both hard and soft plaque. What would be the gold standard for that?
02:14:33Uh, clearly, clearly, yeah. Did that fucking clearly thing?
02:14:36Cubic millimeters. But now if you do that for muscle,
02:14:38so right now with a DEXA, I think this is where the future is going. Right now we look at a DEXA. DEXA
02:14:43compartmentalizes bone, uh, body fat percentage, and then extrapolates lean body mass. But we don't
02:14:50look at muscle quality. You and I have talked about this a lot. We're not imaging routinely muscle
02:14:54quality. I believe they do it in Japan, whether through ultrasound or MRI, where you see...
02:14:59You can occasionally see it if you get, if you get a treatment done, like a stem cell injection of the
02:15:03doctor using ultrasound, you can see the quality of the muscle somewhat, uh, but it's, but it's not
02:15:07done for standard practice. But that's a greater, that's a greater driver of, say, insulin resistance
02:15:12than body fat percentage. It's the fat that's in the muscle and we don't image it.
02:15:15So you'd be looking at a whole body MRI rather than a DEXA?
02:15:19Yes. Yes. I mean, you look at it. You're gonna sit still for an hour.
02:15:22There's not that many places. No, there's gotta be other ways.
02:15:24There's a new, there's a new one. Did you see the water one? You sit in a, basically in a hot tub.
02:15:28That mind, uh, who's developing it, the AI-based company is developing it, right? Yeah, I forget what
02:15:33it's called, uh, and I don't even know. I don't know quantifiably how well it, yeah, I just saw it.
02:15:38You literally step into water and it uses frequency-based mechanisms to do some type of a
02:15:43digital signal that's similar to a full-body MRI. But that's the future. Yeah. I'm telling you,
02:15:49that's the future of medicine. You still need a DEXA. You still need to look at, uh, bone density,
02:15:54but looking at the quality of this tissue, I think is, you're going to be able to correlate
02:15:58with insulin resistance and disease outcomes. Surprising to me that clearly scans, uh,
02:16:02for the people that, C-L-E-E-R-L-Y, um, that they're not more widely used when heart disease
02:16:10is like the number one killer for everybody. They are more expensive. They subject you,
02:16:15depending on the speed of the machine, to a somewhat significant amount of radiation.
02:16:19Um, and there's, there's still holes in the process. Like if you got a CT angiography in 2024,
02:16:26the software algorithm has changed like six times since then. So if you're running the same data
02:16:31through a 2026, uh, software that's been updated, like the data set is not necessarily going to be
02:16:37similar. And most of the time they're not running it back through. Yeah. You have to request your raw
02:16:42data and run it back through an old data set. So there's issues, but in general, um, even if it
02:16:48falls into like the concierge based medicine category, I think more people should be considering a scan like
02:16:53that. I don't know. How, how much is it? Do you have any idea how much out of pocket it clearly would
02:16:56be grand maybe? Uh, yeah, I think it's around that. I mean, that's not cheap, but fuck, you only,
02:17:01you don't need to get it done that much. Get it done 40 years old as a guy. Get a baseline.
02:17:05It's controversial. A lot of people will correlate. I've seen up to 97% accuracy claims a carotid
02:17:13intima media thickness score with a CCTA, meaning using actual ultrasound to look at carotid plaque
02:17:20deposition and based on data sets, correlate that to what you'd get from a CT angiography.
02:17:26And that's like a five minute scan on both sides of your neck. Um, it's just, it's, it's difficult to
02:17:33put a lot of, um, it is difficult to estimate how powerful that, that prediction is. Um, but there,
02:17:41there are a lot of companies, uh, unfortunately in the CIMT space who claim that is really close to
02:17:46CT angiography, but full body MRI, which is very controversial. We recommend them.
02:17:52We recommend them full body MRI. These are early detection screening tools. Um, you'll hear physicians
02:17:57say, why would you screen for something? What are you going to do about it? Well, that's like saying,
02:18:01I don't want to look under the covers. I'm just going to, you know, hide, put my head in the sand.
02:18:04Yeah. If you know, there's an issue, you want to find it early. It can freak you out though. Like
02:18:09there are, there are certain things like I have full arthritis, like literally like from my cervical
02:18:13down to my bar spine. Then have someone else read it for you.
02:18:15And I'm, and I have someone else read it for you. But, but like, there's a lot of stuff that you,
02:18:20you can see and it doesn't necessarily mean that you need surgery or, you know, that I need to get my
02:18:27spine operated on. Like in my case, I do, I do Stu McGill's big three, a hang for the
02:18:32fucking boss. Shout out to Stu McGill dude. Do a lot of plank training, take care of my spine.
02:18:37I always have a giant water bottle behind me on an airplane, which helps a ton. And so I go
02:18:42relatively pain-free, but full body MRI shows like I'm super effed up like my entire spine.
02:18:48So it can be scary for a lot of people. I think a lot of it though too comes down to
02:18:51good clinicians having good conversations. Yeah.
02:18:53Same thing with the cancer screening. Like we can screen for 200 types of cancer at stage zero.
02:18:58Yeah. We can tell you seven years in advance before you use those all that you use the grail test.
02:19:02Yes. And then, and then it's important to have the nuanced conversation and have the time.
02:19:07So traditional medicine will go, well, you don't need that. Like we, we will, you know,
02:19:11that is a mistake. But it's like, it's a, yeah.
02:19:13And we've seen, so, uh, I helped implement this with soldiers, with special operators
02:19:18because they are exposed to so much stuff.
02:19:21They have three fold the risk.
02:19:22Yes. Burn pit, you name it.
02:19:24What's that from being exposed to random particulates?
02:19:28Yes.
02:19:28Gun powder.
02:19:29Also shooting guns.
02:19:30Shooting guns.
02:19:30Yeah. All that gun powder is getting absorbed.
02:19:32People don't think about it.
02:19:33So you're absorbing all that through your, uh, skin.
02:19:35And we've saved guys' lives because we were early enough in detection.
02:19:41And then even to go back to microplastics, but like, this is a crazy one. I didn't realize this
02:19:46until we had this meeting with Ken Paxton here. And there's a woman advocate who's
02:19:51banging on the desk about little girls now start putting lip gloss on between ages six and eight.
02:19:56The average American girls putting lip gloss on between six and eight is flavored lip gloss.
02:20:00Moms and dads are buying it.
02:20:02I started before, by the way.
02:20:02Yeah. But it's, it is loaded with microplastics. And so they're absorbing plastics. And the reason
02:20:07your lips are pink is you have more blood vessels in your lips. And so it's a higher absorption rate.
02:20:12Oh.
02:20:12And so little girls are absorbing crazy levels of microplastics through lip gloss.
02:20:16And like-
02:20:17That's what they're arguing today is that at minimal, they need to change the labeling of what they call all-natural.
02:20:23And like mandate that you disclose a risk profile. And so the Texas is looking at potentially forcing
02:20:42companies. But what we've learned with food is if you can get two or three big states to do it,
02:20:46it's so painful on the big corporations that they'll just change the label everywhere.
02:20:51Because they don't have to split all of the-
02:20:53Correct.
02:20:54Do you think in future, we might see kind of the same as in the UK? I don't know whether it's the
02:20:58same over here. Smoking packets have got, almost 90% of it is taken up with some horrible
02:21:03archery. Like it's a warning label.
02:21:04I hope so.
02:21:05Can you see the same thing happening maybe around other, around maybe microplastics or other
02:21:11contributing elements to food?
02:21:13You mean like a photo of just like teeny tiny testicles on a lip gloss bottle?
02:21:16It does contribute to a sperm, like a withered sperm.
02:21:19Yeah, yeah.
02:21:20But that's one of the reasons why they think that infertility is increasing.
02:21:26Yeah, what was it? 97% or 99% of men have microplastics in our testicles?
02:21:30Oh, did you see where most of that came from though? That it was in the fucking gloves?
02:21:35Oh, if I get to teach all three of you-
02:21:38Wait, you mean the gloves being used in the study?
02:21:40Yes. So the big microplastics, the big micro-
02:21:45Jared, pull it up.
02:21:45You've got to tell Larry that.
02:21:47That's crazy.
02:21:47Look at the fucking microplastics study. Just search microplastics glove contamination.
02:21:50It's because they were wearing the gloves.
02:21:52They were wearing fucking nitrile gloves.
02:21:55And how is it that these gloves bend?
02:21:57Why do they bend?
02:21:58Because tiny little bits of plastic are breaking off.
02:22:00So literally what happened was, we're sorry, the plastic gloves we were wearing got on the
02:22:05plastic detector of the microplastic study we were doing and contaminated the results.
02:22:09So the-
02:22:10Yeah, it's wild.
02:22:11Yeah.
02:22:12There it is.
02:22:13Glabs may be skewed.
02:22:13This is March 29th, University of Michigan.
02:22:16Scientists may be unknowingly inflating microplastics pollution estimates.
02:22:19And the surprising source could be their own lab gloves.
02:22:21University of Michigan study found common nitrile and latex gloves release tiny particles
02:22:26called sterates, which closely resemble microplastics and can contaminate samples
02:22:30during testing.
02:22:30In some cases, this led to wildly exaggerated results, forcing researchers to track down the unexpected culprit.
02:22:36Don't fucking test me, dude.
02:22:37Yeah.
02:22:38Oh my gosh.
02:22:39There's a lot of confusion and misperceptions in the microplastic industry, like the sweat thing
02:22:45is one.
02:22:45The chewing gum is full of microplastics issue.
02:22:48The size of the microplastics and chewing gum actually is too large to be absorbed in the gut,
02:22:54in most cases, in significant amounts.
02:22:55So chewing gum is less of an issue.
02:22:58And then the-
02:23:00There's another one-
02:23:01What do you think of clothing?
02:23:02Because everyone, there's a whole thing against Lululemon and stuff now, too.
02:23:06Well, there was another big study a few weeks ago that actually compared how much microplastic
02:23:13exposure do you actually decrease with certain lifestyle-based modifications, like your clothing,
02:23:19the type of packaging that you store your food in, your personal care products, which involves
02:23:24shampoo and conditioner, whatever, which is stored in plastic bottles.
02:23:27The number one contributor, bar none, was oral exposure via plastics in your food.
02:23:32So what you store your food in or the food that you buy in plastic is the number one contributor.
02:23:39So if you're going to do anything, like-
02:23:41Which, by the way, it's impossible to get rid of, though.
02:23:42It's not swapping out your garbage bag.
02:23:44Like, there's a lot of stuff that you can do.
02:23:46Yeah, but think about it.
02:23:46When you go to the grocery, almost everything is in plastic.
02:23:50And that's the problem.
02:23:50We live in a society that right now is pretty much engineered for you to get your food in
02:23:55plastic, even if it's healthy.
02:23:56Even baby carrots.
02:23:56But even a little level of awareness, because you talked about MyFit Foods.
02:23:59I used to use them 10 years ago, and I was so dumb, I would heat up in the plastic.
02:24:04So listen, that's so funny.
02:24:05Because I didn't know.
02:24:05Yeah.
02:24:05Like, 10 years ago, I didn't know.
02:24:07I'd heat up my little pre-prep meal in the plastic in a microwave.
02:24:09Free microplastics.
02:24:10Wait, I'm so glad you brought that up, too.
02:24:13Now I put it on a plate.
02:24:14So I asked them to pull me the data from, was there BPAs in the containers or the cover?
02:24:21And there wasn't.
02:24:22They used some very expensive company to not have microplastics.
02:24:26So we're working at the moment.
02:24:28I love their stuff.
02:24:29Inside every can, there's a plastic line.
02:24:31I know.
02:24:31That's how you don't get stuff contaminated with the metal.
02:24:34However, you can use a biodegradable natural plant compound liner.
02:24:40Wow.
02:24:40So we're looking at how much it's going to cost for us to line this with something else.
02:24:44Please do that, because I drink two of these a day.
02:24:45I know.
02:24:46I know.
02:24:46They're fucking awesome.
02:24:47Two a day.
02:24:47However, leave it with me.
02:24:48Until you find out 10 years from now, it's some edamomate-based phytoestrogen
02:24:51Phytoestrogen is killing you.
02:24:52Phytoestrogen.
02:24:52Phytoestrogen is killing you.
02:24:53Phytoestrogen is slowly taking over your brain.
02:24:55Phytoestrogen is slowly castrating everyone with new tonic.
02:24:57A bunch of smart people who can't have kids.
02:24:58God damn it.
02:24:59Yeah, I think this sort of current future that we've got moving toward with all of the
02:25:06different diagnostics, all of the different interventions, what do you think, if you were
02:25:11to make some of your predictions for where you think the attention is going to be in future,
02:25:17I think air quality is going to be huge.
02:25:19That's just about coming online.
02:25:20I think light pollution, internally flicker, LED, stuff like that.
02:25:25Is there anything else?
02:25:26If you could-
02:25:26Social media.
02:25:27Anabolics.
02:25:28It's going to get bigger and bigger.
02:25:29Anabolics.
02:25:30Okay.
02:25:30What do you mean social media?
02:25:31The use of social media.
02:25:32Like we have awareness, but I don't think we yet really understand how detrimental it is to
02:25:37children and development.
02:25:39Like being on technology and the level of technology that kids are exposed to is going to have
02:25:44some sort of major impact that we'll look back and go, wow, was that like the tobacco of our time?
02:25:50It's the smoking of teenagers in 2026.
02:25:52Yeah.
02:25:52No one thought the idea that anabolics-
02:25:56What do you mean anabolics?
02:25:56Like the anabolic agents that they use in HIV and wasting that were used like nandrolone,
02:26:04things beyond testosterone, they're used in HIV and wasting, FDA approved.
02:26:10Yeah.
02:26:11Anabolic agents.
02:26:11I think it's going to be-
02:26:13You mean that anabolic agents will become an increasingly
02:26:16popular treatment strategy for sarcopenia or-
02:26:21Yeah, there's an amazing study on nandrolone and bone mineral density.
02:26:25That's right.
02:26:25Yeah.
02:26:26You guys earlier were talking about free testosterone, one of the like little tricks
02:26:29that I think I learned from Larry.
02:26:31There are cartilaginous receptors for growth hormone and it might be able to be used for
02:26:36actual cartilage repair as well.
02:26:37And then there's things like men who have an issue with free versus total, right?
02:26:41So you've got their total testosterone at an optimal level, but their free is
02:26:45suffering.
02:26:46Right.
02:26:46A lot of times that's sex-binding goblin hormone.
02:26:49Yeah.
02:26:49And so then if you add in a microdose of anabar, it will literally like a pac-man
02:26:53gobble up the sex-binding goblin.
02:26:55That's interesting.
02:26:55Ooh!
02:26:56Microdosing anabar.
02:26:57Let's go.
02:26:58That directly spikes they're free.
02:27:00Yeah.
02:27:00Although I have like the-
02:27:02But there's a benefit.
02:27:03I think the elephant in the room with SHBG though is that sex
02:27:06hormone-binding globulin is also something that increases in a state in which the body
02:27:17senses something like famine, starvation, stress, or any type of scenario in which it
02:27:22would be unwise to bring more humans into the world, right?
02:27:26Well, if you're on birth control, it goes up.
02:27:28People who are on like a strict ketogenic diet have high SHBG.
02:27:31People who are under a lot of cortisol load, high stress, they have high SHBG.
02:27:36So in many cases, like it can be something as simple as just like, dude, like eat more carbs
02:27:40with dinner, sleep a little bit more, lower stress.
02:27:43But it goes up in birth control.
02:27:43Yeah, it goes up in birth control.
02:27:44What do you think about nandrolone in older male populations as like, obviously, you
02:27:49still keep them on a test sip or an anthate, but then micro dose nandrolone or low dose nandrolone?
02:27:54I think that that's going to be the way of the future and we have to address it.
02:27:57Yeah, okay.
02:27:57Agreed.
02:27:57And if we, if we, and so we have a mutual friend, Dr. Larry Lipschultz, the godfather of
02:28:02male fertility.
02:28:04Yeah, he's the, I've known him for, I don't know, 30 or 20 something years.
02:28:07He was the guy who developed the entire.
02:28:09Is he like wings and an arrow?
02:28:11He's pretty amazing.
02:28:11He's been, he's been using peptides for literally like 20 years.
02:28:14He used to write for GQ magazine.
02:28:16Wow.
02:28:16He's got, but he's a heavily, heavily accredited academic, um, at Baylor College of Medicine
02:28:22in Houston, Texas.
02:28:23Wow.
02:28:23He's literally wrote the book on urology and he's just such a subject matter expert.
02:28:28He's the one who originally taught me and like helped me.
02:28:32I mean, I was, I was literally 25% body fat doing CrossFit every day, trying to eat right.
02:28:37Couldn't figure things out.
02:28:38Felt like I was just run ragged.
02:28:40And he optimized me to where all of a sudden I went from 25% to 7% without testosterone.
02:28:47He literally used HCG and clomiphene and was one of the first.
02:28:51And he's in his 80s.
02:28:51No, Andrew?
02:28:52Yeah, no, no.
02:28:53He's in his 80s, but that's the future.
02:28:54We have to address it.
02:28:55Whatever happened to GHRP2 and GHRP6 and ModGRF?
02:28:58Because I was fucking about with that 15 years ago.
02:29:01And that I would, I'm surprised when we're talking about, oh, we're going to have a
02:29:05human growth hormone, rather than going exogenous, trying to create some endogenous feedback loop.
02:29:10Right.
02:29:10You mean like, like growth hormone secretagogues?
02:29:12Yes.
02:29:12Yeah.
02:29:13So GHRP3.
02:29:13I think better options came out and there was such a hunger surge, too.
02:29:17There was a lot of, I don't want to say like that.
02:29:18Oh, the fucking ghrelin release?
02:29:19Dude, you were like.
02:29:20Did you ever use it?
02:29:21Did you ever try it?
02:29:21Oh yeah, I know.
02:29:22And I would sweat.
02:29:22Did you ever try this?
02:29:23No.
02:29:24It was M6K.
02:29:24This is an early-
02:29:28This is an early-
02:29:29Growth hormone releasing hexapeptide and bipeptide?
02:29:33You know who prescribed me?
02:29:34It was Larry Lipschultz.
02:29:35And this was, again, like 15 years ago.
02:29:37So we had to do-
02:29:37I think the other peptides we were talking about, like tessamorellin and nipiporellin,
02:29:40CJC1295, a lot of those are what people are using now.
02:29:44Yeah, but are they mimicking the same sort of effects?
02:29:47Yeah, same pathway, but without all of the, like, yeah, with a lower side effect profile
02:29:53and the same efficacy.
02:29:54Dude, we used to shoot it when I was in university.
02:29:56The only way that you could use it was if you hit yourself with it as you were cooking,
02:30:01because by the time that you would finish the meal, you were like beyond ravenous,
02:30:06because it's just dumping ghrelin into it, like just over and over and over.
02:30:09I mean, it was overwhelming.
02:30:10It was fucking awesome.
02:30:11It was great if you're trying to put on weight, but you're hungry.
02:30:13So what happens, is it still used?
02:30:15No, it's transitioned out.
02:30:17Nobody really uses it.
02:30:17Everything moved to CJC and all these other security logs.
02:30:21There we go.
02:30:21Yeah.
02:30:22Down.
02:30:23I think, by the way, you mentioned light pollution.
02:30:28Yes.
02:30:29And you said air pollution, right?
02:30:30Yes.
02:30:30Yeah, I think air quality and light quality are going to be-
02:30:32I think water and electricity are three and four.
02:30:35I think water's already been done.
02:30:36I've already liked-
02:30:37Okay, so water's already been done.
02:30:38Electricity would mean non-native EMF,
02:30:42such as Wi-Fi routers, 5G, square waveform signals at a higher intensity, and things that
02:30:50may cause either actual thermal heating if very close to the body, such as like cell phone radio
02:30:55frequency, or low level up regulation of channels in cells related to-
02:31:01How crazy do you go to your house?
02:31:02Chelsea influx.
02:31:03Are you at the Paul Celadino level?
02:31:04Are you that aggressive with that?
02:31:05My house is pretty aggressive.
02:31:07Like everything is hardwired with metal shielded cables, ethernet.
02:31:10There is no Wi-Fi.
02:31:11Every floor is grounded.
02:31:14I mean, at my house, we pulled out all the stops in terms of circadian friendly lighting to address light pollution.
02:31:19You don't understand.
02:31:20Ben showed me the guy that came in to help.
02:31:25Who did the bio home dude?
02:31:27What was his name?
02:31:27Uh, Brian Hoyer.
02:31:28Right.
02:31:29So this guy comes in looking like a dude out of fucking Ghostbusters.
02:31:32He's got-
02:31:33Like meters.
02:31:34Backpacking.
02:31:34Like more meters than you've ever seen in your life that measure-
02:31:37It's unbelievable.
02:31:38He was like Dr. Octopus.
02:31:39Magnetic and electrical.
02:31:40He's got all of this bullshit attached to his arms and he's going around like spraying for poltergeists and stuff.
02:31:45And he's like, I can see in the corner, there's some 5G in the corner.
02:31:47We got to get rid of the 5G in the corner.
02:31:49There was a murder here 20 years ago.
02:31:50Yeah.
02:31:51So do you feel a difference?
02:31:52So, oh, you absolutely feel a difference.
02:31:54And a lot of this stuff, of course, has the big fat woo bat signal on it,
02:31:59because it is an inconvenient truth that there may be an effect on everything
02:32:05from the neurochemical balance in cells based on low level exposure to radiation or radio frequencies
02:32:15or EMF to the effect that it might have on something like negative ion load in the body,
02:32:22which is why I'm a huge fan of the grounded floors, earthing, grounding, going outside barefoot.
02:32:27But I don't think that there is a biological free cost to having a radio frequency device in your pocket,
02:32:34as some bone scan data suggests might be an issue and sperm data, or just sitting next to a wife.
02:32:40Somebody broke down.
02:32:41Isn't there in the phone itself, in the iPhone itself, somebody had covered this,
02:32:45that it literally tells you you're supposed to keep it a certain distance.
02:32:47You are.
02:32:48Yeah.
02:32:48From your self.
02:32:49That sounds like a great fucking disclaimer.
02:32:52I think the best metric, though, is if you eliminate that stuff.
02:32:56And of course, the single most important place to do it is your bedroom,
02:32:58where your nervous system has a chance to arguably repair and recover for like eight hours for a 24-hour cycle.
02:33:04But as many places in the home as you can down-regulate exposure to that stuff,
02:33:09I think it's a good idea.
02:33:09If it's right in the category with light, water, and air.
02:33:12Are you worried about eight sleep, then?
02:33:14I do not use an eight sleep for those reasons.
02:33:17I fucking love it.
02:33:19I'm not going to piss them off because I know they're, are they a sponsor?
02:33:21Yeah.
02:33:21Okay.
02:33:22I mean, you can say whatever you want.
02:33:23I use a different one that still cools my bed, but that tests lower with an EMF meter.
02:33:29Right.
02:33:29But, okay.
02:33:29So I think...
02:33:30Can you use the EMF meter?
02:33:31Yeah.
02:33:31Yeah.
02:33:32Oh, okay.
02:33:33At least from what I know...
02:33:34Although I prefer for my Ghostbusters.
02:33:35Talking to a bunch of friends, they Faraday cage the cooling tower of their eight sleep.
02:33:42You could do that.
02:33:43And that's where most of the, if you do the actual test according to them...
02:33:46There's much less on the pad than on the controlling device itself.
02:33:49So yeah.
02:33:50So they just Faraday cage that off.
02:33:51You could totally tinfoil add it.
02:33:52Can you give a layman's explanation?
02:33:55Because a lot of people, ionizing, non-ionizing, radiation, blue...
02:33:58I see that you're always with wired headphones, stuff like that.
02:34:00Yeah.
02:34:01What's the 30,000 foot view of the most defensible science behind EMF's exposure to
02:34:11electrical frequencies and stuff like that?
02:34:12Plus three Bluetooth signals, which defines most of what we're using
02:34:16on our heads and our ears, et cetera.
02:34:17Very little data showing that there's any deleterious effect at all.
02:34:20So you're talking...
02:34:21That is more like a, I'm not sure, so I'm going to play it safe
02:34:24type of strategy for me to be using wired headphones.
02:34:26Cool.
02:34:27It's your Pascal's wager, your iPod's wager.
02:34:29Exactly.
02:34:29It's a Pascal.
02:34:29It's a technological Pascal wager.
02:34:33For Wi-Fi, for 5G, for 4G, the biggest response to it from a...
02:34:42From an electrochemical balance in the cell standpoint is proximity to the source, right?
02:34:47So the farther you can be from a Wi-Fi router, for example, in your home or your office, the
02:34:53better.
02:34:53Like your neighbor's Wi-Fi signals, if you've got your home totally tricked out and all your
02:34:57Faraday paint and cages or whatever is not that big of an issue because they're so far away.
02:35:02But if you're sleeping with your head, whatever, one to two feet on the other side of the wall
02:35:06from the Wi-Fi router, that's where there's a bigger issue.
02:35:11There are other things people worry about, electric cars.
02:35:14Tesla's are actually designed to be pretty low EMF.
02:35:17There is a signal that exceeds the safety limit if you are in the backseat right next to the
02:35:25battery.
02:35:25So if you have a kid in the backseat of a Tesla, most of the rest of it is safe.
02:35:30And I have a video online where we went through and tested everything in the Tesla.
02:35:33But if you were going to shield anything, it'd be the actual backseat.
02:35:37And then the other major sources in the home would be like appliances, dryer, washer,
02:35:47microwave only while it's running, like if you were right next to it when it's running.
02:35:51So basically keeping those appliances as far away as possible from the bedroom or anywhere
02:35:55where you're at for an extended period of time.
02:35:57Basically, don't put your laptop on the washer, which I know you do, and work from that during
02:36:01the day, major appliances.
02:36:04And then the phone would just basically also be a proximity to the body and be the bar signal.
02:36:12The lower the bar signal, the higher radio frequency output in order to be searching for a signal.
02:36:17So when the plane is about to land and 100 people on the plane all turn their cell phones on when
02:36:23you're maybe still like, I don't know, like let's say at 2000 feet and you've still got one bar,
02:36:29that's a pretty hazardous place to be because you all of a sudden have like 100 devices pushing
02:36:33out a ton of radio frequency because they're all searching for a signal at the same time.
02:36:37So that's where you pull on your tinfoil hat is right when the plane's about to land.
02:36:42That's crazy.
02:36:43Or your EMF blocking suit.
02:36:44My girlfriend literally got me the tinfoil hat to land.
02:36:47I have an actual EMF blocking suit.
02:36:49I wear one for international flights.
02:36:51I wear a full suit.
02:36:52She got me the cap and she's like, put this on on the plane.
02:36:54When I used to travel with my sons, I have EMF blocking places for my sons for long haul flights.
02:37:00Yeah.
02:37:00Just for the radiation for long haul flights.
02:37:02It's interesting.
02:37:02I actually got this.
02:37:03This is for you to wear today.
02:37:05Hey, I love it.
02:37:06Make autism great again.
02:37:12This is what I'm going to put on every time I land.
02:37:17Does it block EMF?
02:37:18I hope so.
02:37:20Dude, I'm fucking blown away by the Tesla thing by sitting in the back seat.
02:37:24I'm going to guess.
02:37:24Yeah.
02:37:25Lots of the batteries.
02:37:26But for every problem, there's going to be a solution.
02:37:29So someone is now going to make a child seat, presumably, which has.
02:37:32I never thought about that.
02:37:33So I have called four body shops and so far found none.
02:37:37And the Tesla dealership for warranty reasons won't do it.
02:37:40Who will actually install the shielding material in the back seat?
02:37:43So I have just like a giant piece of fabric from Brian at Shielded Healing that's just
02:37:47like sitting in the back of the Tesla right now.
02:37:49But I haven't actually been able to find anyone who's going to pull the seat out and install
02:37:53it properly, like between the back seat and the battery.
02:37:56Did you test it?
02:37:57So there's a great business model out there for someone out there somewhere.
02:38:01To do like low EMF shielding for the back seat of the Tesla.
02:38:04Yeah.
02:38:04Have you tested it with the blanket?
02:38:06Does it make a meaningful difference?
02:38:08Oh, yeah.
02:38:09When you put the shielding material, the meter drops down.
02:38:11It's just, it's ugly to just have a giant piece of shielding material just like propped in the
02:38:17back seat.
02:38:18I need to get it installed or like underneath the upholstery or.
02:38:22What I found fascinating, it was so funny.
02:38:23I was watching your documentary.
02:38:24Congratulations on the new documentary, by the way.
02:38:26Well, thanks.
02:38:27I was watching this last night and I was looking at you.
02:38:29By the way, he was disappointed that they didn't actually show the penis injection scene.
02:38:33I was only there for the penis.
02:38:35Reliably, I only arrive at events.
02:38:37Me and Zac Efron at the back of the cinema, just like, I'm waiting for the penis.
02:38:40Like, show me the fucking penis.
02:38:43One of the things that I noticed was the most Ben Greenfield thing in the world is to design
02:38:48the perfect house to ensure there's no EMFs.
02:38:51Everything's local area networked and copper wiring and all the rest of it.
02:38:54Living room, fucking tons of boxes of new shit that he just had sent to his house.
02:38:59Tons and tons of cardboard boxes.
02:39:00And I was like, that's a man who gets lots of packages.
02:39:02I have a soft spot in my heart for a man that receives a lot of packages.
02:39:05It's the worst when you travel.
02:39:07I literally have an assistant who sits at home and opens packages and sends me photos to an Asana
02:39:12project when I'm traveling so that everything can be unboxed and put away when I get home.
02:39:16Because one of my greatest sources of stress when I travel is getting home to all of the boxes.
02:39:22Worst.
02:39:22Worst.
02:39:23So, I've outsourced them.
02:39:24I enjoyed seeing the boxes.
02:39:26Yeah.
02:39:26A lot of boxes.
02:39:28Lots of cool free things.
02:39:30On the air quality thing, I think that is…
02:39:34CO2 is something that I think people are going to pay a lot of attention to.
02:39:37But that'll be further down the line.
02:39:38Before that, it's going to be humidity and mold.
02:39:43Fucking huge.
02:39:44Wouldn't it be amazing if we had small travel mold detectors that you could put on your backpack?
02:39:51Air quality detectors would be amazing.
02:39:53Yeah.
02:39:53Well, the problem…
02:39:53Or like a canary that you could train.
02:39:56For mold?
02:39:57Yeah, for mold.
02:39:58It just drops dead.
02:39:58Yeah.
02:40:00One of the problems that you have, and I only found this out from speaking to Mike from Jasper,
02:40:04is that you can't have an air purifier, or he calls it a scrubber, an air scrubber.
02:40:11Yeah.
02:40:11But different…
02:40:11I know your dad was huge into this stuff, right?
02:40:14My dad was water filtration.
02:40:15That was it.
02:40:16Yeah.
02:40:17You can't have the sensor be in the scrubber because the turnover of air is too high.
02:40:23So, you always have to have two separate…
02:40:25Because it's basically pulling air through the sensor itself.
02:40:28Yeah.
02:40:29So, you can't have that.
02:40:29You need to have a sensor that's over one side that's looking at CO2,
02:40:33that's looking at mold particles, and then you need to have this.
02:40:36But that means that you now have two units.
02:40:37Yes.
02:40:37Right.
02:40:38One thing that's detecting, one thing that's working.
02:40:39Yeah, you need the detector and the scrubber.
02:40:41And if you could have the perfect setup at home, and you weren't renting it,
02:40:46you could just put in your own HEPA filtration system, you would have a filter,
02:40:50you would have a scrubber, right?
02:40:52So, the filter, you see the MERV rating, which is just the particular rating.
02:40:56That's the actual filter that's catching stuff that you pull out and change every six months
02:41:01or whatever in your home.
02:41:02Then you have the scrubber, which keeps the actual mold from building up in the ducts themselves.
02:41:07And a lot of times, that's using like UV or ozone or something like that.
02:41:11And then a recirculator that's pulling in fresh air from the outdoors, so you're not just filtering
02:41:16stale air.
02:41:16And also, so you're getting the CO2 fixed as well.
02:41:18Yeah, you're scrubbing, you're recirculating, and you're filtering all three.
02:41:22Like, that's the best setup.
02:41:23So it's three different units.
02:41:25It's basically three different technologies being used for something like central HEPA filter.
02:41:31What should happen, and I think this is where the guys from Jasper, Mike's going to end up doing it,
02:41:35is all of this can be fixed if you just put it into AC.
02:41:39Like, if you just go after the AC unit, you don't need to do any of the additional standalone unit
02:41:46thing.
02:41:46The reason that Jasper exists at the moment is that there isn't enough cleaning going on
02:41:51through the AC.
02:41:51And if you're in an apartment block, or if you've got a house, trying to retrofit that,
02:41:55you're going to have to bodge it together like some Ben Greenfield Tesla car.
02:41:58Like, it's not, it's too much to do.
02:42:00So you're having to scrub inside of a room because the air that's coming in from the AC,
02:42:05even with a dehumidifier at the best that you can get at the moment, is tough.
02:42:08I mean, what did you do for your AC?
02:42:10Did you have to bodge it together, or did you find something that was ready-made?
02:42:13We went with a local company called Laser, and they do scrubber, they do filter, and they
02:42:18do recirculation.
02:42:18Are they able to do it at the particular level that's needed to get rid of mold, though?
02:42:22Yeah, yeah.
02:42:23Like, they're using a MERV filter that will basically catch anything that's like PM 2.5,
02:42:29which is, I think it's PM 2.5 to PM 10 are the main sizes that you need to get concerned about.
02:42:34But I still, because of wildfire season, and also in the kitchen where the rating for
02:42:40the height of the hood over the stove for the actual filtration system above the stove when
02:42:47you're cooking is too high to actually catch everything that gets released when you're
02:42:50cooking.
02:42:51So even if you have a filter in the kitchen, you're getting a massive amount of PM 2.5 every
02:42:56time you cook.
02:42:57So I have a standalone HEPA air filter in the kitchen, and then a bunch in other rooms that
02:43:01I pull out when it's like wildfire season or there's a bunch of smoke.
02:43:05There are eight Jasper filters back in our Airbnb right now here in Austin running in
02:43:11the room because, to me, it's worth it to filter than to, as much as I travel, get exposed
02:43:20in an Airbnb or hotel room and be dealing with mold for the next two years.
02:43:24Like, it's way better to just nip in the bones.
02:43:25But see, what you said is important is when you're exposed, you're exposed over a period
02:43:29of time.
02:43:30It takes a long time to get rid of it.
02:43:32Yeah.
02:43:32So you might as well.
02:43:33Yeah.
02:43:33And it's expensive.
02:43:35You work a lot with mold.
02:43:36Obviously, it's been a huge part of my life over the last couple of years.
02:43:39How brief of an exposure do you need in order to cause an effect?
02:43:47Is one night six months of detox?
02:43:50Is there any equation that's been coming for this?
02:43:52I think, well, part of it.
02:43:53So yes, I do and treat mold and environmental toxins in our medical practice.
02:43:59And I will tell you, I think it comes down in part to genetics.
02:44:02Some people are affected.
02:44:04Some people are not.
02:44:05Obviously, there's no, it's not like, okay, so you have low testosterone for six months.
02:44:10Here's going to be your subsequent effects.
02:44:12But an exposure of even a week can...
02:44:17A week's better, though.
02:44:18You at least just delayed Chris's fears about his one night stand with the moldy woman.
02:44:22So it would have been a week.
02:44:24Have you gotten sick with mold?
02:44:25You must have.
02:44:27I've gotten pretty lucky.
02:44:28I haven't, yeah.
02:44:30Have you done your genomic testing to work out whether you've got the different
02:44:33polymorphisms that your detox pathways for lime and for mold and stuff?
02:44:36I have a little bit of impaired glutathione detoxification pathways.
02:44:40If you use some glutathione, I've never had significant mold exposure.
02:44:43But, knock on wood, I've gotten lucky.
02:44:45I mean, me and another guy lived in the same house.
02:44:48Me and Zach, best friend.
02:44:48Major, yeah.
02:44:49And one of us, him, fine, me, same fucking house, dude.
02:44:54And he was ripping vapes, going to bed at three in the morning, playing gigs.
02:44:57Here's me getting up, sunlight in the eyes, fucking grounding, listening to Ben and Cubeman
02:45:01and you, and it wrecked me.
02:45:04So it really is, if you just have rolled the genetic dice and then you kind of hit the
02:45:10equivalent of the inverse jackpot living in an environment, it's a real-
02:45:15Yeah, and you have the roommate with the freaking like Viking Nephilim genes.
02:45:18Yeah, he's just completely untouched by it.
02:45:21But yeah, I think the mold thing is going to be, it already is sort of picking up speed.
02:45:26But Ariana Thacker from the Mold Co., she rules Shoemaker Protocol.
02:45:31All of that stuff I think is going to be massive, like teaching people about binders and sauna and
02:45:36exposure and TGF beta.
02:45:37Yeah, Mold Co. has kind of like systematized everything to where they have like the testing,
02:45:41the solutions, everything on one website, right?
02:45:42It's a one-stop shop.
02:45:43Yeah.
02:45:43Which is really cool.
02:45:44Yeah.
02:45:44And really cool, slash possibly the fox guarding the hen house.
02:45:48But I still think it's a good idea.
02:45:49How so?
02:45:50Well, if they're testing and then supplying the solutions based on the test results.
02:45:53So technically it's a conflict.
02:45:54Oh, you were incentivized to get the test.
02:45:56Potential, but I've gone through the website and seen what they're doing.
02:45:59And I think that they're doing a good service.
02:46:01I mean, you need to be a real scumbag to be.
02:46:03Yeah.
02:46:03Falsifying people's tests so you can then.
02:46:05I would hope not.
02:46:06The therapeutics.
02:46:07No.
02:46:08So yeah, what's cool is all of the problems that we think are sort of in the future.
02:46:16There's already solutions or proto solutions that already exist.
02:46:20So for people that have got systemic issues, hormones, health, optimizing like you guys and
02:46:26similar to you guys exist for the light problems, we've got people thinking about LEDs for mold.
02:46:32We've got the mold cove for blood testing and mass.
02:46:34We've got function for, you know, air quality.
02:46:36We've got, you know, there's already aqua true for reverse osmosis.
02:46:41Like there's already the beginnings of solutions.
02:46:45It's just a case of kind of telling people about it.
02:46:47That makes me feel more confident because I guess like 15 years ago, all of these problems
02:46:51still existed, but there wasn't even the nascent version of some company that could maybe fix it.
02:46:56Best resource I ever found.
02:46:57And I really wanted to interview the author on my podcast.
02:47:00And hopefully she doesn't hear this horrible interview because she was a little boring
02:47:05and didn't do a great job explaining, but the book was fantastic.
02:47:08It was called prescription for a healthy home.
02:47:10And it's like everything.
02:47:11It's carpets, appliance, it's roofing, it's painting.
02:47:14Like I gave it to the people building my home.
02:47:17Like I bought it for the architect and the building team because I wanted them to read it.
02:47:21It was so thorough as far as everything that it went into for building materials from the ground up or
02:47:27outfitting like an existing condo or apartment or somewhere that you're not building from scratch.
02:47:33Excellent guide.
02:47:34Like I think it was published two years ago, maybe.
02:47:37So pretty relevant.
02:47:38Unreal.
02:47:39Final thing that I love, which I think will pick up speed, will be proper genetic testing.
02:47:45So Intelec's DNA is who you guys use that Lisa's put me through.
02:47:50A little bit expensive.
02:47:51You need a healthcare practitioner, a provider, whatever, to get in between you.
02:47:54I know that Function are about to release their own version at some point later this year,
02:47:58which will democratize that.
02:47:59I'm sure you guys have all got your own versions of this too.
02:48:01But it's the only test you only ever need to do once.
02:48:04That's true.
02:48:06Yeah.
02:48:06Until CRISPR gene editing really takes off.
02:48:09Well, you got the Follastatine thing when we were in Roatan together.
02:48:12Yeah.
02:48:12How did that work?
02:48:13I gained muscle at a more rapid rate than I would have expected without changing protein,
02:48:19calorie intake, or my weight training protocol around 10 pounds in three months.
02:48:25It might have worked.
02:48:25It's not permanent.
02:48:27You would need to repeat it, I think, every one to one and a half years.
02:48:30Two years.
02:48:30And unfortunately, at the time, I was under the impression it was reversible in case
02:48:37shit hit the fan and something went wrong.
02:48:40It's not actually reversible.
02:48:41I thought it was reversible.
02:48:43I thought you just took a tablet.
02:48:44Yeah.
02:48:45No, that's the issue is that it is not.
02:48:50And the company is now readily admitting that it's not.
02:48:53And doctors were supposed to reach out to their patients and tell them that, oops, it's not.
02:48:58So that's the only issue now is it's just like, well, if you're going to get your genes edited,
02:49:01it'd be nice to know that if something goes wrong, you could reverse it.
02:49:04Yeah.
02:49:04Well, I mean, we did go to a small island off the coast of Honduras, which is specifically a network
02:49:12state that doesn't have any oversight of basically any nation so that you could get this experimental
02:49:18gene therapy.
02:49:19And now you're like, wow, they didn't tell you about the small print.
02:49:24The understanding that I was taught from that technology is it's not editing a gene.
02:49:29It's turning on a preexisting gene.
02:49:31You are correct.
02:49:31It's not a CRISPR gene editing.
02:49:33And then it'll turn it back off over time.
02:49:35It's basically like upregulating or downregulating a gene.
02:49:39So yeah, like joking aside, the only reason that you'd have to do a genetic test twice in
02:49:45a lifetime is if you are actually using CRISPR gene editing.
02:49:48Yeah.
02:49:48Yeah.
02:49:48It'd be pretty sick.
02:49:49Guys, you all rule.
02:49:50I appreciate you.
02:49:50Where should people go to check out everything?
02:49:52We've told them so many interesting things.
02:49:54My company is ways2well.com, the number two.
02:49:57Yeah.
02:49:57Yeah.
02:49:58Yeah.
02:49:58Go to my website, drgabriallion.com.
02:50:01All of the channels, the podcast.
02:50:04These two are getting PhDs to come on.
02:50:06Let's do it.
02:50:07Let's go.
02:50:07And yeah, Strong Medical with Lifespan MD, if you want to be my patient.
02:50:13I don't do rectal exams.
02:50:14Sweet.
02:50:17There's not a lot of Ben Greenfields out there, so it's Google.
02:50:19It's good.
02:50:20Heck yeah.
02:50:20I appreciate you all.
02:50:21You all rule.
02:50:22Thank you for keeping everyone alive.
02:50:23Goodbye, my beauties.
02:50:24Thank you, Ben.
02:50:25Yes.
02:50:25That was fun.
02:50:28Congratulations.
02:50:29You made it to the end of a podcast episode without
02:50:31dying.
02:50:32Now, here's another one.
02:50:35Come on.
02:50:36Watch it.
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