“My Autism Keeps Upsetting People” - Vittorio Angelone
CChris Williamson
Mental HealthCold & Flu/DiseasesDining OutAir Travel
Transcript
00:00:00maybe you are quite peterson-pilled clean in your room listen i read the 12 rules for life book did
00:00:06you really find it helpful did you really when i was like 22 and i'm so embarrassed
00:00:15i'm so like spiritually like i don't know something about me and my audience would hate
00:00:22the fact that i really found jordan peterson very helpful and i made my girlfriend watch it when i
00:00:26was 22. be like look at this guy kathy newman's an idiot isn't she it's terrible i'm so embarrassed
00:00:34by all of that but like he was like helpful and informative and i think it was like so it
00:00:40was self-help really that like 12 rules for life book and i needed that i needed someone to go
00:00:46come on man grow up grow up get your together do you think that your audience would guess that you
00:00:53were a previous jordan peterson stan some of them some of them i think won't be or like wouldn't be
00:01:00like happier or like maybe they'd be surprised but i think that's where i like to like i try to be
00:01:06honest about that stuff and i like i would like i would like to hear someone be like oh yeah i found
00:01:11that helpful and then it went a bit crazy you know um so i try to be like open about that i was like a
00:01:17i'm still a dumb idiot guy this is the problem i write like like narrative thoughtful thematic stand
00:01:23up shows but i'm a idiot like you know what i mean so it's hard you got spiked i got spiked in nashville
00:01:32listen allegedly i don't know they were like we could do a toxicology report on you but it costs like
00:01:39x thousand dollars and i was like just give me whatever stops me vomiting right now and i'll be
00:01:46okay but i thought it was like i thought it was just like a really unjust hangover i was in nashville
00:01:51i did a show i went for a couple drinks afterwards and a game of pool and i was like yeah i had a couple
00:01:57drinks and then i remember like getting back to the or like my friend giving me a lift back to the hotel
00:02:04and me being like i am trolley right now like when did that happen and then started playing him like
00:02:12mongolian throat singing on spotify which was like that i mean i don't know if that's a symptom of
00:02:20being spiked by a mongolian yeah maybe maybe a mongolian spiked me
00:02:26um but then i don't remember lots of patches of the evening and i don't remember getting into the hotel room
00:02:33and like going to bed or whatever and when i woke up my phone was like in the bathroom not plugged in
00:02:37and like all my was like all over the hotel room and i woke up and i just thought
00:02:41it was like a really you know when you get a bad hangover but you don't think you deserve it
00:02:46you're like i didn't i wasn't this is unjust exactly it was like this is not karmically
00:02:51balanced right now so i got up and then i like vomited and i was like god that was pretty bad
00:02:59did a also pretty bad and then i was like come on you just gotta get your together like i went
00:03:04to i went full jordan peterson i was like i just gotta tidy my room and i'll be okay and then i
00:03:09vomited like once every 30 minutes for like the whole month until i checked out and then i checked out
00:03:16of the hotel and had to go to the toilet in the lobby and throw up there and i was like this is not
00:03:23this is no hangover i've experienced and i've drank a lot in the past and so the guy this guy ian who
00:03:32was like filming the show and stuff he was like still in town and he was like do you want me to
00:03:37take you to like an iv clinic and i was like this is the most like american shit of all time of like
00:03:42go to some weird like spa where they just hook hook you in a wave sage at you do a sound bowl and then
00:03:48they were closed so we were like oh so we went to urgent care which i don't really know what that
00:03:54is like i don't know the american healthcare system is like weird it's not the emergency room but it's
00:03:59like a step it's a half a and e but it's also beside a burger restaurant i was like this this
00:04:06country's fucked this country's this is where there should be like a barber shop or like you know but
00:04:13there's a healthcare facility so i walked in and i think because i was just being like polite to the
00:04:20woman behind the desk i was like oh hi she thought you were minimizing how serious it was she just
00:04:24thought i was like kind of fine and i like signed in and like just did like persistent vomiting
00:04:29it was like my symptom on the thing and then so i was sat there and like people kept getting called
00:04:34in before me and then at one point i was like oh i'm getting that feeling where i'm gonna like
00:04:40throw up again and i was like texting my mom at the time and her actual advice was throw up in the
00:04:46lobby because then they'll escalate they'll see you which is like crazy mom advice of like just
00:04:54throw up on the floor pretty effective and i didn't do that but it was mainly because the bathroom was
00:05:01like right beside the reception desk it's pretty egregious if the bathroom is within sight exactly to
00:05:06just go help so that's your vip pass yeah so i went into the bathroom and made a bit of a hullabaloo out
00:05:18of it to the point where i was like okay they can definitely hear me oh you hammed it up i didn't
00:05:22ham it up i just am a loud vomiter okay i'm naturally allowed i'm screaming really the whole time i think
00:05:30i'm quite a shy vomitor oh really yeah i liked i i don't want to i don't want to make a fuss
00:05:37i think you don't want to make a fun i'm making a fuss are you i'm kicking up a fuss if i'm throwing
00:05:42up i'm just i hate it so much so i sort of walk out i'd stick my head out the door like finish
00:05:50vomiting like nothing there's nothing inside me but it's just like you know the horrible yellow like
00:05:55bile awful stuff so i stick my head out and go oh i like i keep vomiting and they were like they were
00:06:04like yeah we heard i was like i'm really sorry they were like someone's coming to see you now
00:06:10it's like okay good so i went in and they checked my blood pressure and whatever and did the basics
00:06:16and they were like okay what's happened i was like listen i had a few drinks last night but this feels
00:06:21crazy i've thrown up like seven times today and i have nothing left to throw up but it keeps happening
00:06:27then i go okay it feels like you probably had something flipped in your drink uh it's very common in
00:06:32nashville in like particularly like certain areas of nashville and i was like that's a crazy thing
00:06:38to like define yourselves by but like apparently it happens like all the time and they were like
00:06:44were you like looking after your drink and i was like no i was farting around i was just walking
00:06:50around taking pictures doing whatever and my drink was just sat there and they were like yeah
00:06:54and they're like were you hanging around any like weird people and i was like no i sort of knew
00:06:59people and you know people i'd worked with and they were like okay that's kind of weird and i was like
00:07:04oh and then i did start playing pool and then these like real sort of like redneck guys challenged they
00:07:09were like we'll play you for the table and i was like yeah because i'm like quite good at pool
00:07:16so i just absolutely tore these guys apart and they got quite like aggro at one point where my body was
00:07:24like you should you should kill it on the pool thing and you beat them so badly that you nearly started
00:07:30well i just think because i was like in a fun goofy like i just on my show in nashville i was having a
00:07:34good i was like laughing when stuff went in and like you know and then this guy came up and was like you
00:07:42okay and i was like yeah and he was like all right just like this redneck and i was like okay whatever
00:07:50so i'm not saying you were showboating yeah maybe right and i don't look i'm not saying those guys
00:07:55definitely spiked my drink but if i had to if i was a betting man my money's on jimbo
00:08:04which was his actual name and shout out to jimbo and his wife beat him jimbo and his like really
00:08:09frightening looking wife actually she was really she from the moment i was like yeah let's play for it
00:08:14she was like really angry about it i don't know what was going on so that's the working theory and
00:08:20i have eaten like one sandwich and three spoons of porridge in the last like day and a half i could
00:08:28collapse at any moment but they stabbed they injected my ass with like an anti-vomiting drug and i was like
00:08:34this is nice sick this is nice and two hundred dollars as well they didn't me up i was expecting
00:08:39like american healthcare to get like really like you know cause loads and 200 is crazy for like one
00:08:46injection or whatever but like certainly so i stopped vomiting and i made my flight to austin which
00:08:51was delayed by two hours which i actually think was good i got is this bad i got assistance through the
00:08:56airport of who do i just like typed on the app that i needed a wheelchair you got wheeled through the
00:09:02airport you're kidding me i was like i can't stand up for that long you got wheeled through nashville
00:09:07airport yeah they don't ask what's wrong i think i said like ankle injury
00:09:21because i liked it like a month ago i was getting wheeled through airports because i had
00:09:24up my ankle uh-huh they don't ask i know this is so bad like but is it a life hack
00:09:30well you can just click the button you don't need to what what did you click it when i don't think
00:09:34they're allowed to ask i don't think they're allowed to be like disabilities are visible
00:09:37that kind of thing i saw i'm autistic sunflower lanyard i don't know
00:09:44it's crazy and i felt like a little bit bad for the person like pushing me through the airport
00:09:47but i truly think i would have collapsed if i'd like queued for security and all that
00:09:51which feels valid i didn't tell them that i was like potentially had been poisoned by a redneck and
00:09:58like right you know because i don't think they would let me on the flight that's why i said ankle
00:10:02injury in case you were infectious or something i think everywhere or like i think insurance i think
00:10:07if they are if i'd walked in and be like i think i've been drugged i don't know with what i can't
00:10:12stop vomiting i think they would have been like well you might like die on the flight so like
00:10:18i think that like airlines their insurance that's going to be an inconvenience for us i think that
00:10:21would be a lot of paperwork if i died on the flight um but yeah got wheeled through pretty chill
00:10:30it's like it's a good move it actually sounds like you had a nice time i wouldn't say that
00:10:36i wouldn't say that while i was in nashville airport crying on the phone to my mom because
00:10:41i kept shaking i spent too much time practicing pool
00:10:53i've been cursed with my ability to beat a redneck i'm icarus of the pool world you flew too close to
00:10:58the black that sounds crazy that's what jimbo said to me
00:11:12yeah so that's crazy so i'm now i mean we're in austin it's my first north american tour i'm in the
00:11:17states for the whole month and the whole thing was like it's pretty like you know in the states pretty
00:11:22much by myself for the whole month this is like stressful but i'm going to be on top of it and i am
00:11:26now not going to drink for the rest of the month have you been on top of it up until getting poisoned
00:11:32i had a crazy one and this is going to become a stand-up routine but like
00:11:36no the problem with the stand-up routine at the minute is nobody believes that it happened
00:11:40uh went to la first that was good fun a terrible city it's not really a city it's not a place it's
00:11:46just roads it's roads with occasional things like i know that is what a city is but it's not it's got
00:11:52nothing tying it together um and then went to new york and my girlfriend came at me in new york and
00:11:58we were like let's do some like you know touristy things let's get a bagel let's do whatever and uh
00:12:04so it was the day after i landed into new york uh we were walking around we got a bagel and then we
00:12:10went to the 911 memorial and we were like it was just nearby and we were like that's pretty like you
00:12:14know important to see and i this is the bit that people don't believe in audiences i um
00:12:20i shit myself at the 911 memorial
00:12:29i turned to my girlfriend and was like oh no and she was like yeah it's so sad
00:12:34and i was like i've shit my pants i've shit my full pants um it was like a short it was like pretty
00:12:42small but not great so this trip so far has actually been defined by your bowels i don't
00:12:49think food in this country is good for you it's not food it's not food it's not really food i tried
00:12:56to get like a super plain sandwich at the airport in nashville and it's like this bread isn't bread
00:13:00this turkey isn't turkey none of this is food no that's something that's something that american
00:13:06people i think are missing out on advanced country military technology ai all this stuff
00:13:14sandwich technology just has not crossed over from the uk when you think about they don't understand
00:13:19what the meal deal is oh it's a gorgeous institution dude you know i found this out because uh newtonic's
00:13:24in the sainsbury's meal deal now so congratulations thank you very much it's a bit that's kind of a
00:13:28little bit like being uh knight it's like it's getting an obe or an mbe or something it's not
00:13:32quite a knighthood yet um anyway the average british citizen has 70 meal deals a year that's that is
00:13:42low that is i in my opinion that is low i know but that's the average that's right there's gonna be
00:13:48some people having people from home that you're never gonna get to see a meal deal or whatever
00:13:51uh but the fact that you can't get i don't even know how to describe the institution
00:13:58there's this kind of almost quasi religion that is the meal deal in the uk to americans 3.50
00:14:04it used to be three pounds and you get like so it's a main a side and a drink but those categories
00:14:11are like slightly i think bartlett's got his huell in the main section somehow so you can get two drinks
00:14:18well bartlett would of course argue that it's not a drink it's a meal but um you know does have lead in
00:14:25it so that's fine so you can get like mostly sandwiches wraps like sushi if you're a fancy
00:14:31one salads yeah but it's just pasta there's no vegetables it's pasta mayonnaise chicken and bacon
00:14:38and they call it a chicken and bacon pasta salad yeah with no salad and no vegetables at all it's the
00:14:43sandwiches the big difference the sandwich is the big difference yeah where you've got bread that's
00:14:47made from bread and you've got you know two cut diagonally as well and i think when it comes to
00:14:54sandwiches the increase in the tastiness of a sandwich by cutting it corner to corner wow
00:15:02instant what 15 percent maybe improvement in the taste of the sandwich i think
00:15:07what is the possible rationale for that i completely agree but i don't understand i'm going to give you
00:15:16i'm going to give you pizza toast right but well buttered warm toast yeah nicely sort of a six out
00:15:21of ten to six and a half out of yeah yeah toastiness there it is just normal piece you're like it was
00:15:28nice it was nice piece of toast and now i cut it like that and give it to you that's a treat that's a real
00:15:34treat somebody's looking after you it's the attention to detail i think it's more difficult to cut
00:15:38something diagonally than it is to do that even though it's definitely like a machine that does
00:15:43that but even still superior sandwich technology but then ireland is a step above the uk for sandwiches
00:15:50because every shop has a deli counter where they will make you a sandwich make you a sandwich in
00:15:55front of you like baguette like proper bread chicken fillet roll is like the big thing and
00:16:02chicken fillet roll you mean the fillet of a chicken like so it's like a chicken uh like breaded chicken
00:16:10right oh okay like goudron's yeah in a roll in like a baguette and then you can get like anything
00:16:18you want on it and it's like every centra every spar like has a deli counter where they do chicken
00:16:26fillet rolls it's it's amazing and they don't have it maybe ireland has superior science ireland's top of
00:16:31the sandwich tree you think i would say yeah i'm sure like philadelphia would like be annoyed with
00:16:36me about that for their like new york might not be too happy either but uh the other thing that i
00:16:40miss is saurine oh that weird i've never had that i think we have an equivalent in belfast which is
00:16:47called veda it's like a malt loaf yeah unbelievable buttered malt loaf dude and again corner to corner
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00:17:51functionhealth.com modern wisdom using the code modern wisdom a checkout uh you mentioned before uh
00:17:58autism adult autism diagnosis yeah age 29 right yeah what's changed since that happened anything i don't know
00:18:08a lot of people who get the diagnosis are like and everything suddenly made sense and i could
00:18:14manage my life and i could you know get over these obstacles that i'd always struggled with but i think
00:18:21it's like for me it felt like an extremely gradual process where like there was it starts with like
00:18:30jokes like your friends just call you autistic basically and then i sort of socially bumped into a lot of people
00:18:38in a negative way just got some things wrong and to the but then like i would have an interaction with
00:18:44somebody that i thought was like positive and then i would get like a big message the next day
00:18:50saying how much i'd like insulted them or like stepped over some social faux pas that you didn't
00:18:55see i'd like no i was just like what a nice chat and then the next day they're like you you make me feel
00:19:00like every time we talk um and those are just the people who are like prepared to reach out exactly
00:19:06so i must be doing this all the time you're saying there's a wake of destruction wake of autistic
00:19:10destruction i mean there may well be and i just have no completely oblivious blissfully unaware
00:19:16completely no idea it's so it's definitely not blissful it's unaware i think this is a misconception
00:19:21about autism that we're that it's like blissful lack of awareness of floating through life people socially
00:19:27it's that i am constantly so worried that i've upset people but i have no way to tell if that's the case
00:19:33whatsoever so you're just like swinging punches with a blindfold on going like apologizing when you
00:19:39didn't need to apologize and like you're missing the mark on both sides i'm it i'm it in
00:19:45both directions i'm apologizing when i had no need to apologize i'm patting myself on the back
00:19:50when i've ruined somebody's day and that i sort of that made me reach out to a medical professional and
00:19:57go hey there's something there's something going on here um also i was like a very strange child i was
00:20:05very anxious i like had loads of panic attacks when i was like 9 10 11 years old um ran away from
00:20:14school and like tried to run home and was like just couldn't had to be had to do lessons in like a
00:20:19different room to everybody else just do worksheets by myself had to go in through a different entry to
00:20:24primary school like different door because i just couldn't deal with like the crowds of people and
00:20:28all this stuff um i punched my primary school principal uh because i was trying to run away and
00:20:34she and she was trying to stop me running away how old were you nine
00:20:40at what point does a punch become a punch like at what age yeah it's like yeah it's like a puppy
00:20:45like nip like biting your ankle or whatever it's like oh that's cute up until the point yeah and then
00:20:50it's actually assault i would say like probably the cutoff is like 10 or 11. yeah you just nipped
00:20:56in yeah just before you're like inverse russell brand but then like full
00:21:04can we dig into that can we pick that apart i'm inverse russell brand yeah because russell flew
00:21:09very close to the sun but on the legal side and you for now uh yeah true uh okay yeah you know
00:21:17what i mean so you there was an age cut off that was about to happen and you got in just before it
00:21:22yes and there was an age cut off that was about to happen and russell got in just after it
00:21:26okay inverse russell brand so i was like barely legal
00:21:36a barely legal punch yeah yeah that was me that's what you are um so there's all that and it all sort
00:21:41of added up to me reaching out to a doctor just like my local gp in uh london and they were like
00:21:48yeah this sounds like worth investigating let's do like a phone call and i had a phone call with like
00:21:53the specialist on the nhs and they're like great we'll add you to the list uh the waiting list for the
00:21:59assessment and i was like okay how long does that normally take and they were like four years and i
00:22:07was like okay cool and then i sort of had a bit about it in my last tour show and as i was going
00:22:13around and touring i discovered along with my audience that i had a lot of autistic people attending
00:22:18my shows and a lot of autism practitioners attending my shows so i got five offers across
00:22:24the tour of people to do the assessment for free privately because they were just at the show and
00:22:28they were like oh that's my job and i can just you know rather than it costing like two grand to do it
00:22:33i'll just do it for you so i did the one that was closest to london went through the whole process
00:22:37you have like four or five different appointments you have to fill out forms my girlfriend and my mom
00:22:41had to fill out forms character reference yeah just like from your perspective what does this look
00:22:46like from your perspective what does this look like and then from like my own perspective what does that
00:22:49look like um and it came back and they were like you're like a little bit raised in lots of these
00:22:57things like the traits but then like incredibly high on masking so basically pretending you don't have
00:23:03autism um which basically sort of explains why these aren't as raised as you even managed to mask the
00:23:11test but i mean basically and apparently this is like it's a similar reason why like uh women it's much
00:23:17harder to diagnose autism because they're much more concerned with like the group dynamics so they're
00:23:21much more adept at masking and they're told to mask a bit more or expected to mask a bit more societally
00:23:26so i think i have like girl autism which is like quite exciting
00:23:34i also think it's like a comedian thing where i mask professionally like the job is say something
00:23:42you said a million times as if it's the first time you said it but that's also like being autistic
00:23:47in the world yeah is like somebody asked me this question i know what i'm going to say
00:23:51because i'm not conversing intuitively i'm doing a little script that i'm following that i've learned
00:23:57is how people like to be interacted with so i've like that's what stand-up is so i think i'm like
00:24:04just a touring masker which is quite i think that's why the but a global masker as well across
00:24:10the rest of your life yeah i think so and then that's a weird feeling to sort of like what does
00:24:15it mean to unmask like i don't want to be rude to people i think some people get diagnosed and then
00:24:21decide that they can just like freewheeling asshole be a dickhead yeah and i don't want to do that but
00:24:27i do hope that like maybe the diagnosis and me being like public about the diagnosis means that if i do
00:24:34fuck up socially then people like won't be as upset not even for my benefit i've got this autism card
00:24:40here that's not you're not allowed to be mean to me but not even for me i'm just like please don't
00:24:46take any of this personally i'm trying i won't have meant that like you know because i i hate upsetting
00:24:52people like it's my least favorite thing it is an interesting point at what point are you culpable
00:24:57for your actions you have to be like that guy that had tourettes uh was it the baftas yeah
00:25:03fuck everybody that was mean to him fuck every single person that was mean to him about that i like
00:25:08i was so angry about that whole scenario i didn't think i was a particularly well-versed person on
00:25:14like tourettes but apparently no one in america has ever done even the most base like what history
00:25:20research like any awareness of what it is whatsoever and we've known about it in the uk
00:25:26i i don't ever remember a time of not knowing about tourettes like even when i was a kid i think
00:25:30reggie yates did a documentary called super tourettes is that is that that's an actual medical term
00:25:36super turret and what's that so their tics like their physical tics are so intense that they like
00:25:42fall down and it's like funny
00:25:49and obviously like devastating and debilitating for them but like i think they should have come
00:25:54up with a different name it sounds desirable super turret it sounds like what you get if you upgrade
00:25:59if you press the upgrade button when you're adding to the cart yeah it is it's the it is it's the
00:26:04value meal it's a happy meal equivalent yeah yeah yeah and you want to drink with that yeah supersize
00:26:09yeah supersize your turrets yeah so and then so all these hollywood actors coming out and being like
00:26:15i think he meant that why was that word in his brain and i'm like because it's the worst thing you could
00:26:20say in that moment and that's that's the condition wasn't that same guy while on the documentary when
00:26:29his dog was about to cross the road was said to his dog like cross the road nope and then his fight not
00:26:35even his interactions with his favorite animal yeah like he's there's no i mean uh lewis capaldi like
00:26:42the pressure of his second album i don't know whether he gave him tourette's but it sort of
00:26:48caused it to emerge yeah i think like it it can brought it on stress and stuff and like being at
00:26:54the baftas as a guy who's like a school caretaker like janitor i hated everybody going all these poor
00:27:01actors on stage it's like who would you rather be hollywood elite millionaire on stage having a not nice
00:27:08word yeah a not nice word shouted at you or like working class guy who's just going to go back to
00:27:13like mopping floors when he leaves the baftas who has like struggled with a debilitating neurological
00:27:20condition for his whole life and now on the biggest stage he's ever had has displayed it to the entire
00:27:24world yeah and also in a room of people at the baftas they're all supposed to be members of the academy
00:27:30and they're all supposed to have watched all the films so they should all have seen the film about
00:27:36the guy who shouts inappropriate things and they were all like what is going on do your job watch the
00:27:43thing for the award you're going to and if you don't understand something i just he was getting death
00:27:48threats online and at no point did anyone from like the jamie fox side of things who'd like called him
00:27:56racist and all that stuff come out and go oh hey like it should have been edited out because that's
00:28:00a very embarrassing moment for those guys on stage but like it's not this guy's fault the guy's like
00:28:08got a disability so i i i i've been angry about that though since it happened basically
00:28:14it's pretty mean to see unfold uh weird isn't it sort of social decorum so
00:28:23saying the right things behaving in the right way in the right spaces is so highly sought after and and
00:28:30and and that kind of deviation from that behavior it's like we're okay with disabilities for people
00:28:37for like young kids that need help in very obvious ways but this one that's socially difficult to deal
00:28:43with autism is another one or people that have got um ocd and maybe unable to operate in the world in a way
00:28:51that's convenient for everybody else it's like we don't i don't have to like not those ones the
00:28:57difficult conversations of where accessibility meets inclusivity means like he should be like
00:29:02there's people coming out saying he shouldn't have been at the awards thing and i'm like
00:29:05what are we doing here like you're supposed to be the kind of progressive welcoming you see you're
00:29:09telling me that if there was a person in a wheelchair and there was no ramp but they shouldn't have been
00:29:13there suck them army crawl your way onto the stage if a person in a wheelchair had won an award and
00:29:20everyone went ah it's too much fab yeah yeah yeah yeah just someone just launched them up yeah exactly
00:29:24shot put them have you got any shot putters that have done this evening shot put that person up there
00:29:28and what's interesting was um listening to you tell your story about what childhood was like for you
00:29:35and some of those scripts uh certainly for me reflecting on my childhood one of my most common recurring
00:29:42uncomfortable dreams is me doing something to another person that i thought was just a bit of fun or i
00:29:49thought was a normal interaction yeah to then find out that i've crossed some invisible line that i
00:29:56didn't know existed yeah and to then immediately feel horrendous about it yeah the last one of these
00:30:02i had was about two weeks ago or so and it was yasmin who does the guest booking that got you here
00:30:09uh we were walking down the street and i had a like a gatorade bottle like that that had water in and
00:30:14i thought we were just playing about and i sort of splashed some water at her and that turned out to be
00:30:19this huge yeah yeah faux pas that i'd done and immediately i felt terrible and then i woke up
00:30:23and i was i was all i was all anxious and i just woke up and that was it and that's that is a
00:30:28consistent yeah theme not only in my life but also in the dreams that i've had for
00:30:35like a vet like that is the if you were to pick the center of the bullseye of my awkwardness
00:30:42in reality it's me doing a thing and someone being mad at me without me realizing
00:30:49that i'd done it and then finding out importantly occasionally you do something in your life
00:30:54whether it's in work or relationships where you go look this might upset this person but i'm going in
00:31:00with my eyes open and i like still think this is the right thing to do even though it's going to be
00:31:05like uncomfortable or upset them and that's one thing but then like just being so blindsided but
00:31:12what do you think like are you are you interested in the past like do you think you might have autism
00:31:18like i don't want to be one of these i'm going to wear your culture as my costume no but like and
00:31:22god there's enough autistic people that go around diagnosing everyone else yeah that's true
00:31:27i like what would you i have no idea i have absolutely no idea there's certainly some trade
00:31:32i mean again pathologizing anything everything is just some some form of a spectrum right and at
00:31:38some point you breach the threshold for it to be said and now you are depressed and now you are anxious
00:31:45and now you are asperger's and now uh but i i've always made this joke which is maybe a self-protection
00:31:51thing i don't know the difference between being an only child and being autistic
00:31:58you're just an unsocialized boy bingo you weren't introduced to other dogs when you were young
00:32:04well maybe that ramps up your predisposition a little bit because there's all of the memes around
00:32:12well you know people that have got autism can't hold eye contact people that have got autism
00:32:15uh unable to operate socially they they need to do stimming they need to and then you realize actually
00:32:21there's an infinity number of ways that it can show up but then also people's desire to have some
00:32:28form of mental pathology so that they can have a thing i think autism is it is sort of the sexy new
00:32:34if you're going to have a mental malady it's one of the ones that people kind of typically like okay
00:32:40it's like i'm just like you know it's it's a word that gets thrown around an awful lot
00:32:45yeah and that's difficult i think it there's a great book there's two great books by comedians
00:32:49about adult autism diagnosis there's fern brady a strong female character and there's uh pierre
00:32:56novelli why can't i just enjoy things and the real sort of like shot chaser like fern just like mad
00:33:03and pierre's is like and here's why i think but it's really really interesting and um pierre talks
00:33:10about a couple things in that uh where what i where he says like the the terminology like of the word
00:33:20like autism will probably become like defunct reasonably soon because it's a really big umbrella term
00:33:33like a really big umbrella term and a helpful thing was the asperger's
00:33:38category but you're not supposed to say that anymore because he was a nazi
00:33:42who was asperger he was the guy that discovered it yeah invented it i don't know what the word is
00:33:49but discovered or like categorized it as a thing he was like a nazi so it's not named after him
00:33:53anymore so the appropriate term now is like autism level one which is what i have which is asperger's
00:33:58oh okay asperger's was okay and then autism level two and the three levels so you're actually a nazi
00:34:03in this i am a nazi that's i think that's what it means yes um but uh the in this regard in loads of
00:34:10regards yeah um the and then the level two and then level three and it's basically like how much help
00:34:16do you need to exist in like normal neurotypical life so like level one is like you don't need any
00:34:21outside assistance to like go through your life like you can cope with the world and then level two is
00:34:30like you might need some help like or like you know care or whatever and then level three is like
00:34:36you can't exist in the world you're basically full-time care all that stuff and like you know
00:34:40like to have me and then somebody who's non-verbal and hits himself in the head and like cuts their
00:34:45arms by like scratching so repeatedly like it's sort of crazy that we've got the same diagnosis and i
00:34:52get that like look there's people with cancer and then there's people with cancer you know it's like
00:34:57stage one stage two stage three stage four it's a similar thing i guess the autism doesn't develop
00:35:02hopefully hopefully um in that direction but i do think it feels strange what i like about it
00:35:11versus so i got diagnosed with adhd as well i just really want to punch yeah i think it was like buy one
00:35:16get one free or something package deal yeah and uh they i don't like care about that one really as much
00:35:24partly because i think it might be over diagnosed or i would worry that it's over diagnosed because
00:35:31there's medication for it so what's nice about autism is there's no like big pharma money that you can
00:35:36follow to go well they would be motivated to diagnose lots of people with autism because then they could
00:35:42sell these drugs or whatever whereas with adhd they are motivated to diagnose lots of people adhd
00:35:48because there is medication for it so that's why i think the autism one feels a little bit you have
00:35:52been spending a good bit of time in america the big the big pharma conspiracies are already running
00:35:59rampant yeah well the thing is like the nhs is like an amazing thing that is like being a bit over
00:36:06but the big pharma still gets their sort of claws in because they're just selling it to the nhs rather than
00:36:12you know you're sort of whether the money comes direct from you or comes from you through your
00:36:16taxes through the nhs and back out there's still money sort of at the end of it um so i would worry
00:36:22about that a little bit with the adhd diagnosis and i haven't tried the medication for adhd what is
00:36:28it it's like speed that's good yeah it's like fun yeah it's like ritalin but apparently like if you
00:36:36have adhd you like it doesn't it's the inverse it's like just you can do your taxes that's a real
00:36:43that's a real uh like litmus test that should be how you should do it yeah you should say okay take this
00:36:51and then just see if this person starts bouncing off the walls or if they do sit down and and and read
00:36:56i also read an interesting thing and i don't know if this is like even nearly scientifically true
00:37:00but there's a massive comorbidity with autism and a thing called ehlers-danlos syndrome
00:37:04which is like hypermobility and like the soft tissue in your bones and joints and i am like quite
00:37:09hypermobile like my wrist pops out and like things dislocate on me all the time and i haven't someone
00:37:13that plays a bit of sport great yeah wonderful terrible nightmare but so yeah that but then some people
00:37:21have said well what if like they are they're not like happening at the same time sort of by chance
00:37:29or whatever it's just the same thing as in like the soft tissue in your bones and joints it's also
00:37:34that is you you've got you've got bone autism no but it's affecting the soft tissue in your brain
00:37:39because there's different types of tissue in your brain and the connective stuff between okay
00:37:42so you've got brain ella's dandruff yeah i've got hypermobile brain although hypermobile doesn't feel
00:37:48like a good word for how autistic people's brains work they're not exactly flexible
00:37:54yeah what happened with this irish times article thing oh that was interesting
00:37:59i feel a little bit bad about that um i've spoken to the lady who wrote the article and i had spoken to
00:38:04her before she wrote the article and so to fill people in like i there was a write-up about a few
00:38:12different things in the irish times like me sally rooney and kneecap just the big three and and uh
00:38:19and it within it there was sort of like a couple paragraphs of like a review of my
00:38:25uh show that they'd come and seen and i'd like spoken to her on the phone about it and she'd written
00:38:32like really interesting articles about like ireland has an incredibly high gdp and is a very wealthy
00:38:37country but the public service is like our dog like public transport's really bad there's no national
00:38:43health service there's like this that and the other like whereas we have the whole point of this like
00:38:48letting all these corporations come in to dublin and have their offices there
00:38:52is that you do make some money off them and then that goes into like do you benefit from that north
00:38:56of the border and no right no but like the whole yeah um and i think she's really interesting i
00:39:02think she's really clever uh but when she wrote about my show she said that like it was unapologetically
00:39:08local and like if you don't get the references that's your problem and she like quoted another
00:39:13review that gave me two stars at the fringe of someone who clearly just like didn't get the show
00:39:16at all which is one of my favorite reviews actually the two-star one it really made me laugh quite a lot
00:39:21um but i just like she'd phrased it in a way that i was like oh that's a bit annoying like this is
00:39:26quite a big like newspaper and if i were someone that didn't know who vittorio mangeloni was and i
00:39:33read that i would think that's just like it's a bit of a stereotype of northern irish comedians that
00:39:38we just do the you know it's funny because it's local thing of going and also it's inaccessible
00:39:43which means if i was maybe thinking that i was going to buy a ticket and like well i don't speak
00:39:48belfast yeah so it's just like whereas in the show like that was the point i made when i did like a
00:39:53post about it on instagram being like i you know wrote this show in london trialed it all around
00:39:59england did it the edmund fringe did in new york i've not done it in america and in the article she
00:40:05said like i refuse to explain myself but i like truly don't like i i do loads of expositioning
00:40:10like explain and that's like the fun of the show is like going hey this place i'm from is a bit
00:40:14up here's why here's this here's that here's this weird quirk about it and like opening it out to the
00:40:19is like the sort of half of the point of the show that i've written and i was just like a little bit
00:40:24annoyed so i just was like oh you know i'll just post a little thing on instagram and this has
00:40:29happened a couple times recently and this is like i think this don't know if this is an autism thing but
00:40:34like maybe where i just think i'm like having a little bit of fun or like just informing people of
00:40:41something like my run of shows in belfast one of the nights uh like 20 people arrived 30 minutes late
00:40:48and i like asked the audience i was like oh like is it unclear on the website what time this starts and
00:40:55they were like yeah kind of um so in the interval i just went on my on instagram and did like a black
00:41:01square white text and was like oh 20 people just arrived half an hour late for my show
00:41:06um for the rest of this week doors are at this time shows this time except the matinees those are at this
00:41:10time sure this time thanks and it's gotten like more views than most of my stand-up clips
00:41:16i think because people think i'm being like tatty really rude or whatever but it was just like here
00:41:22are the facts of the situation and here's how i can help and then i think with the iris times i was
00:41:26like just trying to do a little i didn't like the way this person phrased themselves about my show
00:41:30and then uh it like just blew up in like a kind of mad way where it has like 40 000 likes or something
00:41:38and then some people going i think you've misread the article and i but i agree she was trying to
00:41:42compliment me in the article but i just i do i don't think it came across in a way that was like
00:41:46nice so i tried to do a little post about it and then she reached out and was like oh i think you've
00:41:50kind of taken me out of context and i was like you and me both sister like you know we're kind of
00:41:56it was a funny phone call she was like are you going to apologize and i was like are you like we
00:42:00both pissed each other off we're both probably in the wrong a little bit yeah yeah and didn't
00:42:07phrase ourselves perfectly and i maybe shouldn't have put her name like in the screenshot i kept
00:42:12her name and like the article but i'm also like your name's in the newspaper beside where the article
00:42:17is like it's not like it's hard to find out who wrote the article but then the problem with the
00:42:22internet is just full of cots isn't it so like people sent her like horrible messages
00:42:26on instagram and stuff and i was like i had like i don't know how much responsibility i need to take
00:42:30for my audience but like i'm sorry that that happened that wasn't my intention and like you know
00:42:36we're like friendly enough now and just have a sort of agree to disagree thing on that in it i think she
00:42:42didn't freeze herself well she thinks i didn't freeze myself well and like i don't know like it's very
00:42:47easy as a comedian to do this whole like everybody i don't care and if somebody has a go at me whoa i'm
00:42:54just a comedian or whatever like but i don't like that's not how i like to exist in the world like i
00:42:59upset somebody so i reached out to them and had a phone call and was like hey let's talk this way
00:43:05we might not agree at the end of the conversation but i have a half apology each yeah if even i don't
00:43:10think either of us really apologized but it was just like okay i sort of understand where you're coming
00:43:16from you sort of understand where i'm coming from it's nice you might not believe me but this is what
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00:44:12to eightsleep.com modern wisdom and using the code modern wisdom at checkout that's e-i-g-h-t
00:44:18sleep.com modern wisdom and modern wisdom at checkout i've been watching the fallout after the
00:44:25roast of kevin hart thing it's been kind of fascinating to see and i was thinking about what
00:44:29would be the difference if it had happened in the uk because uh i don't know from i've been in the us for
00:44:36four years now but obviously still listen to a lot of you listen to a lot of finn listen to the screen
00:44:41rock boys you know listening to yeah i've said to you before this is my it's my way to tap back
00:44:47into a little bit of british culture it sort of reminds me that jaffa cakes and the in-betweeners
00:44:51and you know like wayne lineker still exists like it's very important for me to have my cultural way
00:44:57markers three pillars of the uk correct jaffa cakes in between us and wayne lineker wow
00:45:03it's true um but i was thinking because you guys did a roast recently maybe not you know not netflix
00:45:09and kevin hart or whatever but and then what's happening with whatever we want to call it like
00:45:14british comedy now uh it seems like the new what i'm seeing is a new sort of half generation that's
00:45:23stepping through which have been mostly borne out by the internet although everyone's done a million
00:45:27years of standard i'm aware that everyone's driven to yeah like woking and shithouse exactly like
00:45:33done all of those things like they've done that for a long time and now they've just burst on the
00:45:36internet but from getting public awareness people are just starting to break through and that's really
00:45:42cool and it feels like there's this next sort of wave yeah that's that's on its way which is real
00:45:48exciting but to see the number of different factions and maybe this is just because america's such a big
00:45:55country and so many people hate each other it's very contentious uh but it's like a an earthquake
00:46:04occurs this big thing happens and then there's all of these aftershocks that go on afterward so then
00:46:10chelsea handler's going to go on don lemon's podcast and she's going to talk about this and then shane's
00:46:13going to talk to matt and they're going to say this thing and then tony i don't know whether he's piped
00:46:17up yet but he's gonna and everyone's waiting it's almost you know what it is it's almost like
00:46:22someone's had a boxing fight and then you're waiting for the post-fight press conference yeah and
00:46:27you're waiting to hear well you know i just wasn't on form this evening the training camp was great but
00:46:32tonight i just wasn't about or he missed weight i can't believe we've had to pay the purse like then
00:46:37we need to run it back and i don't i haven't seen that level of cattiness in the uk i don't know whether
00:46:48it's not big enough for the factions to go whether i'm just not paying enough attention whether there's
00:46:53not a large enough pie for everybody to be worried about that you all need to keep in good friends
00:46:59because like the likelihood of you bumping into someone is probably higher than it is in the us
00:47:04there's this enforcement mechanism if i just don't want to have to face you i don't have to bump into
00:47:09you and feel like you've got this unsaid stuff like you and this journalist lady maybe or maybe
00:47:13there's more decorum more politeness i don't know i just i was thinking about it because a few clips
00:47:18popped up of your guys's roast from a little while ago and then the kevin hart one and i was comparing
00:47:23the two and i thought it was kind of interesting about how uh yeah the the difference in the post-fight
00:47:28press conference well i think like the roast thing is such a big like it's been in american culture for
00:47:36a long time like the don rickles stuff it's much older in this country than it is in the uk culturally
00:47:44whereas because like we've met like you could very easily i don't know if he would do it but like you
00:47:49could do like a roast of jimmy carr like in the uk on netflix but like you know whether that would cut
00:47:55through in the uk or what that was and you know that was the have a word podcast uh did that roast
00:48:03that we did in the uk and i think like it didn't it's sort of people who've been on their podcast and
00:48:09we all have our own followings and like and it was also just on their patreon and clips are just going
00:48:13out as i clips but like i don't know the roast thing's fun i think it's become like reaction has
00:48:20become such a big part of culture maybe particularly in america where it's like this person reacts to
00:48:26this thing it's half of youtube is videos that have gone viral and then people just watching those
00:48:32videos did it start with two girls one cup maybe it might have that was patient zero of reaction double
00:48:40zero because like there's more videos of people watching two girls one cup than obviously the one
00:48:45video that is two girls one cup you know what i mean like there's all these people being like oh
00:48:49that's disgusting and i think like i don't know i thought a lot of that roast stuff was like
00:48:56they're all funny jokes i saw all the like lots of the jokes at the comedy store the week
00:49:01of because everybody was like practicing their jokes i was at that crazy night at the comedy store where
00:49:07chapelle showed up and then brought on gillis and then brought on louis ck and then brought on chris rock
00:49:14and then brought on uh kenya west kenya west was at the comedy store so i well it was the day after i
00:49:21landed in la i went to the uh i didn't have anything to do on the sunday night like the day before the
00:49:26netflix is a joke festival started and i was like i'll just go watch like the open mic at the comedy store
00:49:32to like i like to do that when i arrive in a place i've never been before like see some like really
00:49:36bad stand-up comedy so i picked a great night well i do but like well because the problem with the
00:49:42comedy store is the open mic becomes the proper show um and i just as like a confidence boost wanted
00:49:47to be like let's watch some people and to be fair they were and uh i was sort of
00:49:53enjoying it and i'd been there for like maybe an hour when the proper show started and then they
00:49:58started bringing on people but the problem is i arrived and was like tried to do like i i don't
00:50:04want to be like again i think didn't know what the social norm was but walked up to the door and was
00:50:08like oh hi i'm a comedian in town for the netflix festival and i was just hoping to watch the show
00:50:13and they were like yes 20 and i was like okay that's like fine whatever give him 20 i was like i
00:50:20don't think okay that's fine give him 20 and then they're like okay put your phone in this little bag
00:50:26blah blah blah then they walk me through and sit me in the front row and i'm like this is uh this
00:50:31is silly that i'm here but like because i'm not a great laugher i like a comedy show i don't know
00:50:36like i'm okay but like not the worst but i sort of just sit there and like quietly enjoy and analyze
00:50:42it because i'm so like in the weeds of what it is yeah and uh but i'm sat at the front in the corner
00:50:48and like nearly every comedian on like the main show referenced the fact that i wasn't laughing like
00:50:53this guy hates it not knowing that yeah i was loving it i was having a good time polly shore
00:50:59called me gay for his whole set um it was like quite fun call me a gay nazi um it was like fun
00:51:06um and then uh yeah and then i noticed the security going around and taking people's apple watches even
00:51:13though they'd already got everybody's phones and like putting those in pockets and i was like oh somebody
00:51:18somebody famous is about to walk on and then that's when they brought chapelle on
00:51:22and then he brought on all those people so i saw a lot of those roasts and it's so funny the one
00:51:26that's gotten like gillis in trouble on the internet or whatever or the one that chelsea
00:51:31handler's kicking up kicking up with us about like that's the one when gillis was on i was like oh i'm
00:51:36not a bad audience member i just have a high bar yeah i was just folded and half laughing it's just
00:51:41unbelievable yeah and um yeah the joke about uh kevin hart is so short they're gonna have to lynch
00:51:48him from a bonsai tree that's the one i was like recounting to people is the best one i'd heard that
00:51:52i was really excited to see on netflix and that's the one that everybody's like i can't believe you
00:51:55you don't make jokes about lynching yeah chelsea handler said lynching's worse than rape
00:52:01i mean i don't know why we're doing a league table yeah
00:52:08i think it's not a competition i think they're both bad yeah it's not a competition i think they're
00:52:12both really bad it's just it's interesting to see this fallout and to think how these people
00:52:19are on stage to try and achieve the same thing like to have a good time supposedly to have a good time
00:52:24i think that's that's a misunderstanding people have about roasts is some people think it's like a
00:52:28competition and like somebody wants to win and somebody won't like that's very american yeah but
00:52:34even roast battles i'm like this is a double act you're like that's how you should view it and that's
00:52:39more dan's partner than a fight it's an ensemble show and you're trying to perform for other people
00:52:43you're not trying to just be mean you're trying to say really funny things about your friends and
00:52:49colleagues and famous people and stuff and i think like yeah i don't know like i try not to get caught
00:52:56up in this like everybody's too offended nowadays everybody just has too much of an opinion nowadays
00:53:01it's like all right you didn't like it and an infinite number of opportunities to talk about it
00:53:07yeah and broadcasting yeah yeah yeah everyone has their own little platform and an incentive to
00:53:11say things and it's hard to not like you know i'm on a podcast right now there's a big podcast and i
00:53:16could give my hot take on the roast of kevin hart and it could be a clip and it could do well and
00:53:22whatever but like i liked it it was a bit long some people didn't do great but they're actresses not
00:53:28comedians so what the fuck you are there we are that's it that's it that's a nice you know like
00:53:36there's the most lukewarm take that we can so much like so many people going oh you should do a post
00:53:41about this you should do a cat to camera video about this no i've written the show that i've spent loads
00:53:47the time on and that's what i'm you know there is this there is definitely a sense that comedians are
00:53:52like uh ammunition bullets in the chamber of one particular perspective or another that this thing
00:54:00has happened and we need someone to comment on it and we know that if we try and get someone who's too
00:54:04serious it's going to come across as kind of stodgy and it doesn't really work on the internet but
00:54:09we've got this guy and we think that this guy mostly agrees with us yeah so if we can make him aware
00:54:15of this thing we can kind of point him like a rifle and then you can you can pull the trigger
00:54:19and he'll he'll do something and that'll take down i've been kind of obsessed with this this idea
00:54:24that i heard this week of a cringe cancellation so you can cancel somebody because they did something
00:54:30illegal you can cancel somebody because they said something reprehensible or whatever it is
00:54:34but there's a much more pernicious type of cancellation which is i think what people are
00:54:37attempting to use comedians for which is i want you to make this person's brand equity so toxic to be
00:54:44associated with wow that they become cringe cancelled yeah yeah i think that's probably
00:54:52quite powerful as an idea i wonder who who would i who what's an example of someone who you think has
00:54:57been like cringe cancelled somebody made a joke about them that was so funny uh shetty and bartlett
00:55:02got close to it when you and mike did that that's the canonical example
00:55:10wizards of nothing that was the one that's true that's one of my favorites
00:55:16that that went interstellar but that's what that's the kind of thing that i'm talking about which is
00:55:20like if if if and this may be not even it's done in advance we're gonna try and say this thing to make it so uncool or whatever
00:55:29but for the most part like uh a lot of criticisms around russell brown this is a this is a two-pronged
00:55:34assault right the real cancellation but also the cringe cancel yeah yeah which comes in because a lot
00:55:38of the time if someone's uh
00:55:43virtue gets chipped away at that opens up the opportunity for oh maybe the momentum's slowing
00:55:50which means that we can also get in there and do the and do the cringe thing too yeah but it's not
00:55:54always prefabricated i'm not saying that every single time but that these things can happen
00:55:58by accident or they can be uh someone can try to construct them but either way if you make it
00:56:04basically uncool embarrassing to like to listen to someone yeah that is
00:56:10you know what they remember the r0 number from covid like for every person that gets infected
00:56:15however many more people so for instance um the psychology of money book by morgan hausel my friend
00:56:21for every person that buys the book another 1.2 people buy the book okay wow because they like it
00:56:28so much and it's so widely applicable and managing your money is such an important thing that the total
00:56:34addressable market is like eight billion people yeah so they so every month i think i'm still right on
00:56:39this every month since it launched like three years ago it sold more copies yeah which is
00:56:44fucking insane well that's that that's like books word of mouth is like the only way to sell books
00:56:50yes like there's you can put you can't put up a billboard of a book like nobody i don't care
00:56:54but if you say dude you need to read this or better i bought it for you so there it is money right
00:57:00literally um but if you can do the opposite of that if you can make the r0 number less yeah that for
00:57:07every person that sees this thing fewer people want to be associated you know what i mean yeah it's
00:57:12this sort of negative i listen to jay sherry's podcast so you don't have to
00:57:20well i think uh uh um uh brian callen good friend firing the kid that has been on the receiving end
00:57:27of this that is a real difficult spiral to come because how do you reverse engineer someone that's
00:57:34having a that is saying this is not something that you should listen to and because i'm saying
00:57:40that you shouldn't listen to it fewer people want to listen to it which means it's very human and then
00:57:45if you try to push back against that it's just more cringe and more cringe and more cringe it's a
00:57:49horrible sort of spiral to get yourself into but it's like i think it's a worry of like social isolation
00:57:54isn't it right of like it's cringe to be into that it's like oh better not yes well it's like that um
00:58:00bill burr joke about uh roller skating do you know he said like roller skating was massive until that
00:58:06one homophobic joke in the 90s and then everybody put the roller skates in the bin which is what's the
00:58:10hardest thing about roller skating telling your dad you're gay
00:58:19okay so yeah it's like a roller skating cancellation that's exactly what i mean yeah that's precisely
00:58:23what i mean but this it can happen for anything right it can happen for bands it can happen for tv
00:58:28stations it can happen for whatever overexposure is a big thing i think for like actors as well
00:58:34where people are just sick of seeing somebody who would be an example of that i think nick cage was
00:58:38probably not far off it at one point but then actually went through it so far he kind of did
00:58:42the full horseshoe that he full circled and came back out the other side of the yeah the cringe thing
00:58:47um the rock actually got cringe cancelled without being properly the rock is actually the canonical
00:58:54example of this and then it seems to me like he's trying to do another he's trying to do a rebrand
00:59:00with being edgy swearing more less family friendly uh and the kevin hart roast yeah because that was
00:59:07that felt like oh cats out of the bag with saying retard the rock said it you know what i mean like
00:59:13the rock is the overton window that's ex that is exactly what my friend george said precisely he's
00:59:19like holy fucking the rocks there yeah that is yeah he's as hollywood as overton windowy as you can get
00:59:26yeah i don't know if that's a good thing that the rock is the rock is the center of culture
00:59:32yeah that doesn't feel great that doesn't feel like all of the generally accepted opinions are
00:59:38represented in an enormous sort of freak like he is a freak you know what i mean
00:59:46pisses and bottles on set and stuff apparently i didn't hear about that yeah that's interesting
00:59:50because he's working hard chris uh that's what i need that's what i need i need one of those down
00:59:57here to show just how hard i'm a little catheter that'd be cool that'd be cool yeah uh i i don't know
01:00:05that it's very surprising to think how far back would you need to go for that roast to not be allowed on
01:00:13the internet three years four years maybe that's in the netflix roast allowed on the internet oh
01:00:18sorry i was allowed allowed on netflix i broadcast yeah um shows how much i've seen it online but then
01:00:25it's just cycles isn't it isn't it just pendulum swinging and stuff like that you know if you look
01:00:30at the don rickles roasts i mean you all see racist jokes like talk to don rickles but i mean
01:00:38you couldn't have put that out in 2020 yeah people went a bit mad but what when was at what point would
01:00:45that have been allowed this year one year ago two years ago three years ago because it wouldn't have
01:00:50been six years pretty recently it's probably one or two really yeah and i try not to like i don't know
01:00:56pay much heed to that stuff like what is allowed what isn't allowed is that because you're purposefully
01:01:05not trying to be an edge lord yeah well i'm purposely trying not to come across as an edge lord i'm not
01:01:11saying things because they're edgy aside from the fact that you have to say things that create tension in
01:01:15the room to be a stand-up comedian and like you know if if you're in a topic that people aren't comfortable
01:01:21with then you can get a nice laugh at the end of it but it's not just for the sake of being edgy
01:01:27well that's something everyone's talking about at the moment which is how often are the jokes funny
01:01:31and how often is it just a forbidden sentence yeah i mean i'm having been like around america for a few weeks
01:01:38like like there is something a little bit embarrassing about some of american comedy where it's like if you
01:01:47have a joke that doesn't work if you just stick a slur at the end people will clap because they think
01:01:53you're like fighting this good fight to like it's the right wing equivalent of we don't like that orange
01:02:00guy exactly yeah it's all just clatter and it's all really really boring and pandering and sort of
01:02:09nonsense like a big thing with my to show that i'm touring at the minute is like
01:02:13i don't think anybody uh should be comfortable the whole time but for different reasons like i think
01:02:20some people who might lean more towards the right or be more there for the edgy or dark stuff
01:02:25they'll be uncomfortable because i'm like reasonably vulnerable in the middle of the show and
01:02:29sincere at points and talk about difficult things personally but then the the people who like
01:02:36that vulnerable narrative thematic stuff will be uncomfortable with some of the jokes that i make
01:02:41later on and it's just like yeah you want to stretch your audience you don't want to like
01:02:45give them what they want and i think a lot of american comedians are big into getting big rounds of
01:02:49applause for being saying naughty words it's like you know when you're like 12 and you find out what a
01:02:55female dog is called and all your mates are like oh my god like you can say like you can call it a
01:03:01bitch because it's a bitch that feels like what a lot of american comedy is at the minute where it's
01:03:05like we're allowed to say it's nice naughty i don't know what what's happening with the the vulnerability
01:03:11side but there's definitely a performative there's a performative element of both there's a performative
01:03:15element of pushing beyond what is allowed this is the this is the oven window i'm going to push on that
01:03:20side but then you also create the incentive to perform in the other direction which is to just have
01:03:25endless amounts of vulnerability uh like i heard this term recently uh speed running relatability
01:03:33someone trying to like hurry their way through just trauma dumping on you in a in a desperate
01:03:38attempt to be like i am a real person let me show you how much of a real person i am yeah
01:03:42and uh that also is performative and that also has the potential to be cringe but like when authenticity
01:03:50is uh incentivized because people people seem to like that they seem to resonate with that what you
01:03:56end up with is a world of people trying to work out how to reverse engineer authenticity that genuinely
01:04:01looks authentic but doesn't have to be authentic like it doesn't have to be sincere it just needs to
01:04:08appear authentic it just needs to align with whatever your brand is and whatever your stick is russell brand
01:04:14whatever sort of whatever people want to hear from you like i think that's a big thing with a lot of
01:04:19comedy audiences they want to know what angle you're coming from from the start you know particularly
01:04:25in america i think it's like nobody in america is american everybody i'm italian or i'm irish i'm
01:04:31this or i'm that it's like and then all their jokes are filtered through that lens where
01:04:35i sort of am slightly averse to that where it's like i can tell you what i think it's nothing to do
01:04:40with me being irish none of these things that define me entirely i'm not just irish i'm not just
01:04:45autistic i'm not just italian i'm fucking none of those things really like this episode is brought
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01:05:52description below or heading to join dot whoop dot com slash modern wisdom that's join dot whoop dot com
01:05:59slash modern wisdom you built a show around a clip of a 10-pin bowler like that what is it about that
01:06:07clip that made you so fascinated with it so what's interesting is i so the show is called who do you
01:06:14think you are i am the 10-pin bowler is pete weber uh who you might have seen on the internet shouting
01:06:20who do you think you are i am and i knew when i was like working towards the show that it was going
01:06:26to be a show about identity and how people perceive me and how i perceive myself and i just thought that
01:06:30was like a funny meme title for that show but as i was writing the show and performing the show i realized
01:06:38that like loads of people hadn't seen the clip which is crazy to me because in my mind it goes viral
01:06:44like once a month to a crazy level um but like most people i performed on the tour hadn't seen
01:06:53the video at all so i had to like write an explanation of the video at the start of the show
01:06:58which was a nightmare but like actually very fun and like exciting like a fun bit and a fun thing to
01:07:05explain um and then as i was working on the show i was like oh this is like i think he's me like in
01:07:15the show like i didn't sit down being like i'm going to write a show where i sort of in the subtext
01:07:21of the show i am this professional bowler who is like kind of my hero because of this clip
01:07:26like it just sort of became evident to me as i was talking about my experiences of that last couple
01:07:30years of like coming across very arrogant to other people pissing people off without realizing i was
01:07:35pissing them off and then trying to re-find a bit of that swagger having like put myself in a bit of
01:07:41a box and avoided that for a while and like like doing that sort of like wrestling thing and pete
01:07:47weber's a big wrestling fan of like the heel turn of being like you this is like a fun thing to play
01:07:52with of like staring into this kid of being like i'm arrogant and therefore like you know pete weber's
01:07:57the bad boy of bowling which is like a very funny thing to be like it's a crazy thing to be the bad
01:08:03boy of but so stand-up comedy like it's a very embarrassing sort of weird art form kind of and
01:08:09it's like so yeah it just came out of it um naturally and i was really annoyed because he
01:08:15lives in nashville but he was away when i was doing my show there and i was supposed to do my
01:08:20that show about him in nashville and i really wanted to do it for him and i don't know if he's
01:08:26watched it he follows me on instagram and i did message him being like oh hey this special came
01:08:30out on youtube and he was like yeah man i'm gonna watch it this week then he hasn't replied since
01:08:33but i don't know if he just really didn't like it
01:08:38what was the uh putting yourself in a box thing like regressing back and then coming back out
01:08:44i'm interested in so the story from that uh show is like i
01:08:50a clip of my podcast got screen recorded and sent around lots of comedian whatsapp groups
01:08:55uh where i was saying talking about having unexpected having an unexpectedly good run at
01:09:00the edinburgh fringe festival and i was like oh people keep telling me i'm the guy this year like
01:09:04it's my year to be the guy i'm the guy and i was saying that i was finding that really stressful i
01:09:08was having lots of panic attacks like how am i going to live up these weren't people who'd seen the
01:09:12show they just heard the buzz or whatever and i was like how do i live up to whatever this is
01:09:16it's kind of the lewis capaldi effect yeah just like god like i can't i mean on a much smaller
01:09:21scale but like that kind of thing and then so i was being made fun of but like they cut off the
01:09:29podcast clip out of context where it's just me going people keep telling me i'm the guy this year
01:09:33and that and that got sent around and then people come up to me during the festival and be like
01:09:38oh it's the guy and i'd be like oh what's happening again because i didn't find out i didn't
01:09:44find out about the whatsapp groups until a month after so i'd had this month of my life that i was
01:09:48like this is the best month of my career so far so exciting really proud of what i achieved and i
01:09:54had a really fun time with lots of different comedians like it was difficult to points but i had a
01:09:57really fun time and then a month later all of that was like oh fuck like everybody was making fun
01:10:02the veil got lifted behind my back it's like my throwing water on yasmin dream yeah it's that i
01:10:07thought we were all having fun i thought this was a good time yeah and everybody just thought i was like a
01:10:11wanker which is like truly like if i'd been sent that clip of another comedian i would have like
01:10:16ripped into them endlessly because it's like funny um and i get how it came across but i think for fear
01:10:21of that happening again there was like maybe a year and a half two years where i like tried to put a
01:10:27lid on like a bit of the self-promotion a bit of the like bravado yeah that stuff which i think is like
01:10:34part of my like has always been part of my approach to comedy but from doing that show and touring that
01:10:42show like building that part of myself back up and being slightly less ashamed of like yeah i'm like
01:10:50ambitious i want to like it like do lots of cool stuff and i i think i can be really good at stand-up
01:10:55comedy and like the reason i do stand-up comedy is i think i can i think i can be one of the best in the
01:11:00world at it and i didn't have that when i was like a musician or whatever but i felt like with stand-up
01:11:05comedy i was like i'm not saying definitely and it's also objective but i was like i think i can be
01:11:09one of the best in the world at this so i've kind of been working on getting my mojo back in that sense
01:11:15and you kind of have to because i tell you what's hard to do without any bravado is promote a stand-up
01:11:21comedy tour on instagram authentically yeah to be like hey come see the show it's like it's fine
01:11:29it's not gonna work and there's loads of comedians going around and go all fucking hate doing this
01:11:33self-promo stuff and i'm like yeah that's the job i'm sorry you're sort of in marketing but you're also
01:11:39going to be sad if you only play to a half-filled theater so like you yeah i mean that's something else
01:11:46that really resonates with me uh i think certainly from childhood maybe this is working class you know
01:11:54i'm from stockton right stock nantes it's i i i i've tried to put across just how horrendous the
01:12:03place is a beautiful theater yep and then everything else correct is off yeah you've played in stock i've
01:12:10done the ark in stock i went to go and see that what's that fucking world war one um play about a
01:12:17horse war horse war horse you stupid it's like my dream it's like my dream world war one play about a
01:12:29horse that was so mean of me but that was close what's that book about the jungle
01:12:59anyway i went to go and see that in ark in the ark yeah in ark um
01:13:13for a good while i don't know whether it's just a british thing northeast of the uk whether it is
01:13:20you need an amount of charm to be able to carry off bravado or ego or like confidence there's
01:13:26definitely the tall poppy thing if don't get too big for your boots i mean me how many times i know
01:13:30ireland's got that like notions is what we call it he's got notions as in you have notions that you're
01:13:36somebody oh if you're accused of having notions that would be a bad thing i think i would be accused
01:13:41of having notions too keen just don't know your place yeah yeah it's tall poppy it's that's the
01:13:46exact same thing you're right i like that well i don't like it but you know what i mean yeah um
01:13:50and what i learned as being an incredibly unpopular kid in school highly under socialized who played
01:13:56cricket so like you know just in case i was going to make it worse on myself yeah i'm going to play
01:14:01cricket at a moderately high level right and wear whites all the time uh what i learned was if you
01:14:09really aggressively downplay what it is that you've got going on if you don't talk about your ambitions
01:14:15if you don't sound like you're too big for your boots i think i reverse engineered that a lot of
01:14:19people find you more likable in that way that they don't see you as a threat it's not quite the same
01:14:27thing as humility it's like it's like it's kind of like performative humility in a way it's meekness
01:14:32isn't it correct yeah that's a good way to put it yeah well they're going to inherit the earth
01:14:37according to the bible jordan peterson would agree yeah uh and but it's it's not
01:14:45genuine meekness it's more of fear of judgment where you're i'm not gonna i won't say too much i
01:14:51want to do to the you know what changed this for me the movie coach carter i don't think i've ever
01:14:56seen that brother what is the point in talking to you you have to have watched coach carter i haven't
01:15:03what's it about basketball so samuel jackson is a basketball coach okay in a sort of impoverished
01:15:09neighborhood richmond the richmond oilers and there's this recurring thing where he asks a player
01:15:14timo cruz what's your deepest fear and he like refuses to answer and then he like just but it
01:15:21keeps coming up what's your deepest fear what's your deepest fear and then when timo cruz i think
01:15:27like a family member of his gets like shot but he's like he turned his back on the team because
01:15:32he didn't want to go to class he didn't want to do all the strict like classic sports movie stuff
01:15:35like you have to have this gpa you have to turn up you have to blah blah blah and like be respectful
01:15:39wear a tie all that stuff he'd like stormed out but then he had like really horrible family stuff
01:15:45and then he got back into the team and blah blah blah blah blah really dramatic moment in the film
01:15:52uh he stands up and says our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate it's that we are powerful
01:15:57beyond measure isn't it is um it is not our darkness but our light that scares us the most
01:16:03and it's this poem that already exists i can't remember who it's by but he does the whole poem
01:16:07and like like i think at some point in my life i was like yeah you know if you shine your light
01:16:13it emboldens other people to shine theirs as well and i think yeah it's so easy to be like that tall
01:16:20poppy thing and yeah when do you think you got over that because it's like you're probably a very good
01:16:24example of that of like being like i'm going to interview people like there's a level of like who
01:16:31the are you and why would we well yeah for sure i think to be honest i think i'm still playing it i'm
01:16:37still certainly still downplaying whenever i get asked about what's going on like i did this big
01:16:41interview with um for like highlife magazine which is the british airways thing i did something in the
01:16:47times recently i did a bunch of others and if you read through it it sounds like it sounds like a
01:16:51comedian tried it sounds like a very very bad comedian trying to do self-deprecating like every
01:16:56single line is trying to be self-deprecating because well you know i i i being from the northeast of
01:17:04the uk i didn't have particularly big dreams anyway so it's nice that i've surpassed them some
01:17:07shit like that like at every single step of the way rather than like you have goals i'm the eighth
01:17:13biggest podcaster in the world yeah right like i just that's something that i can also you're not
01:17:17done you are that you're annoyed that you're eighth yes you want to be seventh or sixth or fifth or fourth
01:17:22or third maybe maybe but like that's okay like it's okay it's certainly still there it's certainly
01:17:29still there and i think it gets to a point where it actually starts to seep inside of your own ambition
01:17:34um a little bit and you go i'm believing my own reverse hype yeah in a way yeah it's nothing yeah
01:17:41i'll just i'll i'll sort of keep it where it is i don't want to make waves get too big for my boots
01:17:45have notions you know be a kino etc and uh like trying to work through that i think is is a really
01:17:50interesting challenge i i to be honest i i still think it's there like i'm doing the thing in spite of
01:17:56it not because of it yeah i mean like in a way it's a good thing to keep an eye on not to have a
01:18:05runaway ego yeah and i think that's the sort of what the ego the super ego the id like all of those
01:18:10things balancing each other out and like you gotta keep a little bit of it in check but you just gotta
01:18:16know what it is and when it's useful when is ego useful and when are you bragging versus being like
01:18:22grateful for what you've managed to achieve do you know what i think it might be i think it might be a
01:18:27deep down belief that i'm so unlikable that i need to compensate for that unlike ability by
01:18:36doing by adding in additional upgrades to the personality which includes not ever well i know
01:18:43that for the most part there is a you need to have like surplus like ability to be able to have an ego
01:18:48so if i don't ever display an ego that means that the likability that i think is probably lower can
01:18:55be lower which means that i'm not going to push over and accidentally cause some sort of an issue
01:18:59i think that that's i think that's probably a big part of it and uh yeah it's interesting but
01:19:04one of the things that uh i certainly talk about at my live show is doing the thing in spite of
01:19:11not thinking that you should be able to like doing it anyway and being able to turn up and
01:19:17do the apollo or or or sit down with matthew mcconaughey or you know whatever whatever the
01:19:22fuck um or turn down donald trump on the podcast like to say no to opportunities too like that
01:19:31you turned on only podcaster that did last year no two years ago i picked the right part of the
01:19:38manosphere yes we did it yes i was i was so i we've met twice and i'm so proud of you
01:19:51that is that rocks and i know you're like like meek about like that i mean it shouldn't be a high bar to
01:19:58surpass like interview a guy that's sort of bringing in fascism but like nice one man i think that's
01:20:08fucking cool it was it was definitely a rarity to the the media team reached out to me after the
01:20:13election that's made my day i'm sorry this is so great does it really put on this put the hat on
01:20:19i'm gonna put this on instead so yeah the media team reached out to me and they were like you know
01:20:28that i think of all of the people that got offered it the only one that said no was you you are aware
01:20:32of that and i was like okay i guess i don't know i didn't have i what what am i gonna i'm not gonna
01:20:38get anything out of that conversation was my yeah i would be far more interested in speaking to him now
01:20:43and i think it's far less um um influential and potentially yeah well it's not like world changing
01:20:50or cantankerous or whatever and there's less pressure i was like i don't i don't i feel like
01:20:56i am going to be able to do the job that is necessary regardless of what you think about trump
01:21:01the guy is a generational communicator and in the space of 55 minutes i'm not going to be able to i sat
01:21:07down with bernie sanders and he was like a slippery eel and i i'm like wow this is um but it's like
01:21:13rolling with the brazilian jiu-jitsu black belt or something it's incredible more times than you
01:21:18can even imagine he's been in congress longer than i've been alive yeah so i'm like this is an unfair
01:21:23fight yeah uh but anyway um saying yes to things saying no to things having the dreams doing this
01:21:29stuff yeah all of that all of that um but definitely is a a good role model for hey you can not believe
01:21:36in yourself and still make it yeah like isn't that an incredible fucking like motivational that
01:21:43you know you've got to see it before you achieve it or whatever it's like hey what about if you
01:21:47achieve it and you still don't see it yeah because that is also a path and far more people i think
01:21:53have got at least in the uk have been held back by a lack of confidence than a lack of competence
01:22:00it's like hey you're way better than you think you are and there's a guy out there who's half as good
01:22:05as you with twice your confidence yeah making 10 times the progress yeah yeah because they're just
01:22:11putting themselves in the right situations and going to the rooms and all the rest of the things
01:22:14uh but yeah you can kind of you can just do things you can you can just do things and apparently that is
01:22:21kind of the same as believing in yourself but i think you sort of have to believe in your
01:22:27like inherent like good stuff about you but like that you will keep yourself in check
01:22:32you know in like a way where it's like like knowing deep down like no i'm like a i'm not a bad guy i'm not a
01:22:39complete narcissist or whatever so i can step a little bit out into the world and like even if i
01:22:45push with like everything i have to be as out there and confident as possible like because you've got
01:22:52all these worries like you're really now it's so unlikely that you're gonna really overshoot yeah yeah
01:22:58yeah isn't that interesting yeah it's so funny to think about uh
01:23:04the fear that you have of being that thing meaning that you're almost certainly never going to be that
01:23:11thing that line about like if you're worried that you're a psychopath you're probably not a psychopath
01:23:15yeah i worry about that with the autism stuff very simple like that you've manifested your own autism
01:23:22no very psychopathy symptoms sociopath versus autism
01:23:28there's like there's like one thing that's not the same what's the thing i can't remember what it is
01:23:33but it's like you're perilously close to being a sociopath yeah it does people probably do you
01:23:36reckon anyone's ever thought that before yeah i think lots of people who aren't diagnosed with
01:23:41autism before they get diagnosed with autism they're like like this i'm really worried that i'm like a
01:23:47incorrectly matched yeah i'm a bad person yeah not that i don't i don't care about other people i
01:23:52don't care about whatever like i don't know that authentic authenticity thing is really difficult
01:23:57though as well like i think it's very easy for that to just make you do nothing it's like what do you
01:24:02want to do what aligns with like who you are deep down inside it's like i don't know i probably just
01:24:06want to sit in and like read my book you know like but like what i think i have like quite bad like
01:24:14anxiety maybe to do with the autism stuff so i've never been able to trust the gut thing you know
01:24:19when people go like i'll just trust your gut i'm like i am terrified of everything i ever do i'm
01:24:24terrified to leave the house every day i can't my gut is not trustworthy it's very stressy little gut
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01:25:02strength app could wipe your ass for you probably would and it adjusts automatically every week based on how
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01:25:33interesting you i've heard you talk as well about how all of the interactions or many of the interactions
01:25:37that you have are kind of prefabricated there's a response that i what before somebody asks me a
01:25:44question i have an idea of what it is that i'm going to say already and uh i think that is a way to not
01:25:53need to rely on instinct as much i think because as well my instincts are so like intense conversationally
01:26:01like i just want to ask really like difficult questions like i was hanging out with my uncle
01:26:06and he travels loads for work like he's all over the world doing this like big corporate thing
01:26:12and i was like we were just like i have a unborn chat of like how's this person in the family how's
01:26:18that person in the family blah blah blah blah and then i was like are you still like enjoying the travel
01:26:23stuff and he was like no not really and i was like oh okay like what's your and i sort of stopped myself
01:26:31from going okay well but how does it make you feel like what are you how can you fix that what's this
01:26:37what's that with you like i really want to interrogate people's like and it's not to be like i think
01:26:41they're wrong or they're doing the wrong thing and i want to pick it apart it's like i just want to like
01:26:45them to talk me through their thought process and just so i find that so interesting like the reasons
01:26:51people do things also because there's often no reason like they haven't actually conceptualized
01:26:56that there are other options and they might like want to do something momentum is a hell of a
01:27:02restrictor on that oh this is what i've always done this is what i do do or whatever it's the next
01:27:06logical step let's keep going yeah yeah there's a a cool idea of sliding versus deciding and it's
01:27:14like from couples counseling stuff that you move on to the next step of the relationship we're hanging
01:27:21out on an evening and then it's a situation ship and then it's a relationship and then you know you
01:27:24come over a bit and then you got a toothbrush and you got a draw and we're kind of living together and
01:27:28now there's a golden retriever and oh we should get married and now there's a kid and you know you
01:27:31wake up with a couple of kids and a golden retriever in a house and you go
01:27:35at no point did i feel like i decided to get into this and it happens with a lot of things in life
01:27:40people slide through a career well you know i i didn't know what to do at university so i did business
01:27:45did business studies and then you know i got a job at i got a job at kpmg kpmg is great and then you
01:27:50know i just like you you stay here and then got a promotion yeah i think it's the same with comedy
01:27:58like the next logical thing for me to do is like tur tur tur write another show turn it around get
01:28:04another tour on sale every year every year every year yeah i want to try and do like no stand up in
01:28:082027. what are you going to do instead just like write scripts maybe write a book like just
01:28:14live you know you've got the podcast that keeps the lights on build that a bit more but like
01:28:20it'd be cool to do a year of like not doing it and then really want to go back to it yeah well also
01:28:26in order for art to imitate life you have to live a life yeah and see comedians where all their stuff's
01:28:31about like airplanes and dinners yeah and backstages or green rooms yeah it's like gotta get out in the
01:28:37world a little bit a little bit where did the name yourself at the 9 11 memorial that's true that was
01:28:42part of tour that's great uh the name guy to parenting yes people think it was like a jab but like
01:28:48parenting podcasts it truly wasn't it was mike and i had done like a couple of trial versions of the
01:28:53podcast where we were like okay we're idiots like we are just talking absolute shite the whole time and it's all
01:28:59silly and i was like right so we could call it mike and vittorio's very stupid podcast and that would
01:29:07be like an accurate description but surely the naming protocols should also match the vibe of the
01:29:13podcast where we just name it the stupidest thing that we can think of and we landed on mike and vittorio's
01:29:20guide to parenting do you think many people listen hoping to find some parenting advice we get a few
01:29:26messages i've put it in the children and family section of spotify
01:29:36it's like in people's recommended pods if they like are new parents they like they get recommended
01:29:43us on spotify i started i started listening to the manosphere version thinking that it would educate me
01:29:48about what to worry about for my eight-year-old son yeah and i was horrified at what i heard
01:29:57yeah so we just thought it was the stupidest name
01:30:00ever and the joke answer is we're trying to attract an audience of young moms
01:30:09what trouble have you guys gotten into has there been anything coming out of that
01:30:13of like the naming thing no no no of the show generally the podcast yeah no i think like look
01:30:19every so often we get a little message where someone goes oh i didn't like that bit i didn't like this
01:30:23bit and we have like i think we have all sorts of people listening to the podcast and i think a lot
01:30:28of people think it's like guys listen to the podcast but it's like girls with fringes i think there's
01:30:34something about like guys talking in like a playful silly fun way is a way where i think women generally
01:30:44like socially are like very good communicators and talk about their feelings there's that like kind
01:30:48of like hack stand up bit of you know i went for a beer with my friend we spent three hours together
01:30:56i come back home and my partner goes how's his mom how's his work going is he seeing anyone and you're
01:31:02like why would i know any of that stuff and she's like you spent three hours together how did you not
01:31:09talk about that stuff and they can connect emotionally and really like learn about each
01:31:12other and sort of love each other in that way but i think men while we're at that first
01:31:17one and i'm trying to get better at it we're good at just abstract around chat
01:31:23and like silly fun chat and i think like for some men listening to our podcast would be like
01:31:30well i can kind of just like chat to my friends and around with them and that's what this is and
01:31:34that's nice when you're maybe like in a new city and you like don't have that set up yet but i think
01:31:40a lot of the women that listen to the podcast are like they don't get those conversations from like
01:31:46their group of girl mates and some this is all generalizations and all that stuff you know there's
01:31:49some women that are like have those conversations and have those chats or whatever but i think like
01:31:53we're providing a service that like isn't as readily available to women in a way which is quite it's like i
01:31:58i wasn't expecting it we weren't targeting a demographic at all but it was like exciting do
01:32:01you know the basement yard you familiar i do yeah they're so funny so joe santagato was there in the
01:32:07last week or something and uh they did madison square garden sold that out 90 women unbelievable
01:32:15isn't it i think it's probably a similar thing it's the exact same thing it's the exact same thing and
01:32:21the sound when they walked out on stage the screams were so loud that everyone's apple watches went off
01:32:26warning people that they were in an unsafe noise environment like some harry styles concert yeah
01:32:31unbelievable that is and i think like that's probably a shame like like why women feel like
01:32:38they can't be stupid or silly or fun in that way you know they're supposed like i guess they've been
01:32:43told they're supposed to be buttoned up and like responsible maybe and men have more freedom to
01:32:47i think i definitely think when it comes to comedy podcasts it's hard
01:32:53most of them are guy-centric about guy stuff and then begin to push into an amount of edginess that
01:33:00deselects for a lot of that female audience right um especially one of the more
01:33:08linear paths to pod success or online content creator success is to start to ski right if you're going to
01:33:15do that sort of stuff i think which again deselects for a lot of the women and um it's always going
01:33:20to get into some kind of you you orbit manosphere manosphere adjacency stuff which i'm aware that you
01:33:28brought it up earlier on i do need to clear my name you're not in the manosphere i'm not even
01:33:32fucking they hate me they hate me yeah but i don't know you're closer than i am that's not hard
01:33:40that's not hard i'm a little with your female autism i'm a low t female sort of with a little
01:33:48earring yeah i get called gay on the internet every day of my whole life like i don't know it's funny
01:33:54like it's funny like you maybe you sit in a very interesting place i think like you're not in the
01:34:00manosphere but i think to some people they would say you're like the now and i don't think you're
01:34:05guilty of any of that either like the really problematic stuff but for some reason like
01:34:13maybe because you're like jacked like is it just that you're like in really good shape
01:34:17and maybe talk about it or like because there's a venn diagram of like talking about health and fitness
01:34:22and mindset and like those things which does exist in a more problematic male media landscape
01:34:30but i think you managed to sort of i don't know an unkind views you're like the narrowest end of the
01:34:36wedge correct with the the uh accusation i got after uh me and bartlett went viral at the start of the
01:34:44year was that i'm the gateway drug to the manosphere that i'm the little pebble at the top of the avalanche
01:34:50well yeah you start off listening to chris williamson but before you know it you've pipelined your way
01:34:53into nick fuentes and andrew tate yeah uh despite the fact that the day after the louis theroux
01:34:59documentary came out i managed to unite feminists and the manosphere in agreement that the worst part
01:35:05of the louis theroux documentary was him coming on my podcast that was what they were tweeting about
01:35:10the next day it wasn't about the documentary it was about me it was like a full half ai
01:35:15louis coming on yeah louis coming on my podcast got me every single most of the people who were
01:35:22in the documentary weren't tweeting about the documentary they were tweeting about me platforming
01:35:26louis theroux wow that that was that was unacceptable but only a couple of months before
01:35:32when i've been on bartlett massage i got called the lux max it which i actually think is kind of a
01:35:36compliment uh all of the newspaper articles about that were right wing manosphere misogynist but then
01:35:41when i went and did tucker carlson's podcast only a couple of months before that i was accused of being
01:35:46riddled with blue-pilled thinking and infected with feminist lies there's a quote yesterday literally
01:35:50yesterday on twitter the big reply that happened to like something i put up that was like some cs lewis
01:35:56quote that i thought was really like cool and cute and it like talks it's both sides of the fence about
01:36:00uh the homemaker is the ultimate career and all other careers are just built to support that one i was
01:36:05like oh wow this is really interesting because it's like both it's supportive it's progressive it's
01:36:09really great old school whatever the and uh someone was like more feminist bullshit in fact i answered
01:36:13that question yesterday like um when are you going to admit that all that you do is spew the exact
01:36:19feminist lies that you that are creating the problems in the world i'm like i'm getting ideologically
01:36:25spit roasted because it's a difficult thing because we i've had like tv producers come to mine and mike's
01:36:32stand up shows and be like do you ever worry that your audience are the type of audience that might
01:36:38be in the manosphere or might like have some of those incel tendencies or might drift towards
01:36:42that andrew tate type of thing and i'm like that's really the opposite of a worry for me
01:36:48because if i because if me and mike can get a hold of them before tate does then they're not going to
01:36:54become these sort of fucked up like misogynist violent like abusive partners these women because
01:37:02we make fun of those guys and we're softer and we're more open and like i think a nice thing that
01:37:08i try to emulate on our podcast again not super actively but like is you know mortimer and white
01:37:13house gone fishing yes and how like lovely they are to each other as like older men and they like
01:37:19say each other i love the way they say each other's names like how you going how you doing bob she's
01:37:23lovely like there's some intimacy yeah male intimacy with like in a in a friendship that i think is
01:37:30represented on that and these like tv people were like oh we're just not you know that's that's a bit
01:37:35of a worry for us and i'm like but someone has to talk to these people someone has to talk to young
01:37:41men or else you're abandoning that to all of the influences that you have the biggest concerns about
01:37:49and it's hard to talk about like like young men feeling abandoned or without feeling like you're
01:37:56heading towards that manosphere thing but like i think that's why i found that benefit from the
01:38:00jordan peters and stuff it was someone talking to me in a way that i could understand and how i can
01:38:05take up a positive space in the world it wasn't patronizing it wasn't pushing you to in a direction
01:38:13that you felt was unethical and it wasn't telling me i was like a piece of shit for being like a man
01:38:19yeah you know yeah i look i uh you're right i think it is it is definitely an interesting whatever
01:38:25middle of the venn diagram of talking about personal development health and fitness and and you know
01:38:31sex differences and challenges between the sexes and birth rates and stuff like that because i think
01:38:35they're important issues but it's the internet's really quick to pattern match and especially if
01:38:40you present yeah maybe you could like hell like you know someone could look a little bit fruity and
01:38:45you're like might be maybe he might he might swing both ways and then this is well he might be you
01:38:50know he could be manosphere but then also again insufficiently masculine for the manosphere because
01:38:54the gay accusations come thick and fast um but like them coming thick and fast sorry
01:39:01uh one of the things there's this great great article that i saw the other day about grindslop
01:39:10so this is and i think this is something that i've been feeling for a while that
01:39:181000 you'll be episode 1110 or something like a lot right uh and much of that is me as a young man
01:39:25going i don't know what to do i don't know how to how to operate in the world i'm confused about
01:39:33emotions and i sometimes i sometimes have self-doubt and i i just sleep i think i should sleep i should
01:39:38probably sleep more and i should probably work out what i need to eat and i'm gonna find whoever i can
01:39:42get a hold of to to understand that and understand myself and understand the world around me especially
01:39:47as the whatever late adolescent onset like whatever the opposite of precocious development is i'm like
01:39:54in my 20s starting to understand me and uh but there is a there is a degree at least when i have the
01:40:02conversations where i'm like a lot of the 80 20 of the development side of stuff like how to sleep well
01:40:09what a productivity strategy looks like this is how you should eat this is how you should train these are
01:40:14how you need friends in your life and all of these things like i think a lot of that has already been
01:40:19covered if not by me than by other people so i'm one of the reasons that i've got this studio and we've
01:40:24got this big table and there's we're doing these episodes with lots of people is i get the sense in
01:40:29the age of ai that just raw information dumping is probably not more of what people need it's probably
01:40:36not more of what i need i certainly want to learn about things and there'll be progress to make but
01:40:40given that lots of that territory is already being covered by me and by other people and i think
01:40:47people are feeling more alone and i know that i even i as somebody that's constantly around people
01:40:52have that sense too i'm like i i want to listen i just want to listen to matt and shane i just want
01:40:55to like have a hang and like all right tuning to you guys are tuning to like uh jacob and jake and
01:40:59just listen to them talk bullshit i just want to listen to them talk bullshit and um that's something
01:41:04that i'm actively sort of nudging the show in that direction and i'm gonna lose a big chunk of the
01:41:12audience from doing that to because once a week or once every couple of weeks it's me and my friends
01:41:18sat around talking about whatever the fuck has happened yeah and having that degree of male intimacy
01:41:22and just having a hang and not like it doesn't feel like homework and when you've left you go to learn
01:41:28anything i had a nice time yeah i had a nice time yeah and uh that's it's just like an interesting
01:41:34pivot and that's kind of where i'm feeling at the moment that the grind slop like work until your eyes
01:41:38bleed thing i don't definitely been through that era but i don't think that more of that is necessarily
01:41:44needed so anyway that i don't even know what i'm saying there's a lot of funny parodies of the sort of
01:41:48grind slop thing is it was named doug baldwin with the tiny little sunglasses he was sat in that seat
01:41:56yesterday yo get pissed call the police that's me on the floor he's so funny some of the bits that we
01:42:07did yesterday are unbelievable he is so funny you know him and timmy no breaks are the partners in
01:42:12a lot of things oh great okay cool yeah yeah i think he's the funniest guy they make me he was here
01:42:18yesterday that's so funny yeah it was great so uh but yeah exactly exactly that and um i have a little
01:42:25hope for ai okay that it really like that it'll put a premium on like live experiences and music gigs
01:42:36people will buy tickets for them and stand-up gigs people buy tickets for them because you can't trust
01:42:40anything that's on your phone anymore yeah because it's like why like even watching the winter olympics
01:42:45i was like is this i don't think i don't think trump competed like you know yeah like there's just
01:42:52something about it where you go like uh it makes me the phone is slightly giving me the ick at the
01:42:57minute because it's like i can't quite trust it and i just go it already was no one was already that
01:43:03much of a fan of it and now but it's just like even the silly fun videos aren't like you know
01:43:10like this propaganda cat videos but like cat videos were like what the internet was sort of built
01:43:15on and now you can't you don't know if it's a cat or if it's just some ai thing so it's i think being
01:43:22in the real world might become back in fashion i think so too i mean nightclubs aren't nightclubs
01:43:27are dying a death right which was my old industry for a long time i think it's an one one nightclub a
01:43:34week is closing down in the uk at the moment there's not that many to be able to go through
01:43:38i'm aware in the us it'd be like rounding error on the number of nightclubs you can't get away with
01:43:43that many and most of them were already a bit like you know when it is it's when flares closes down
01:43:49that's when you know that there's a real issue okay that's their patient zero for like they're
01:43:54they're the overton window for nightlife they've weathered a lot of storms they do they have
01:43:57indeed yeah with the light up dance floor uh speaking of that what's the most belfast way
01:44:03that anyone's ever threatened you threatened me i mean there's like fun like there's a thing that's
01:44:08happened twice now on the tour and this doesn't feel like a threat but it does a little bit there's a
01:44:14bit in the show where i ask if anyone's from where i'm from and i talk about and the joke is about the
01:44:21naming conventions of like some people don't say northern ireland because they don't agree with the
01:44:25fact that it exists some people say the north of ireland because they think ireland should be one
01:44:29whole big thing and that's like a big divide where catholics would call it the north of ireland
01:44:34protestants would call it northern ireland that's like a thing so i have jokes about that and in those
01:44:39jokes i go obviously notice i haven't named where i'm from because in the first chunk of the show i
01:44:42don't name where i'm from i say belfast but i don't name northern ireland as a place and i say um
01:44:48oh have you noticed that i haven't named it and it happened in newcastle upon town and it happened in
01:44:53philadelphia and no it was last night in nashville happened in nashville in newcastle
01:44:59where somebody shouted out the word trench which is the street my dad grew up on
01:45:07in west belfast which doesn't on the face of it scream threat but it's a bit like oh
01:45:15that's intense how did they know that like their family knows my family
01:45:22and in a show that's maybe a little bit contentious about northern ireland stuff
01:45:26it's just a bit like okay noted noted was the threat scarier in newcastle or nashville
01:45:34i would say newcastle that felt a bit more connected to the whole thing
01:45:37um but it feels like i was reading a london falling patrick rand keith's new book
01:45:42and you know patrick rand keith he wrote say nothing
01:45:45um you should read say nothing i think you'd really like it is a hint um no shut the up um
01:45:57um and in it he was talking about when he was like interviewing gangsters who were like around this
01:46:03murder that the book's about um and they would always mention like his kids names and his like dog's name
01:46:10it's just a little flex we know where you're from we know who you are i know exactly where you're from
01:46:15and who you are french hmm hell that i was i was thinking it was going to be some fun jovial little
01:46:22like strange and in fact it's actually a private investigator guy who knows something deep and dark
01:46:28about but west belfast so small like i'm not from west belfast but my dad is right but like
01:46:33it's a small little world paddy galloway good friend of mine he there's something about the
01:46:40entirety of ireland that seems diplomatic enough to say the entirety of the island of ireland
01:46:46the island of ireland diplomatically okay also people are trying to spitball new names for the
01:46:52concept of the british isles because that claims overship of over ireland by britain okay so you can't
01:46:57call them the british islands i think somebody said uh what if we called it the east caribbean
01:47:10uh so paddy paddy was every single person i know that's from the island of ireland
01:47:17has a story where there's some sort of family drama feud thing that goes all the way back despite the
01:47:24fact that england is just as old and and scotland is just as old and i don't hear i don't know anyone
01:47:32that's in the in england that's got that same kind of heritage my family and their family and
01:47:39this thing in the farm next door it just i don't know there seems to be way more like ossification
01:47:45do you think it's just reality maybe of like like agricultural communities probably do like they're
01:47:52more embedded in their communities and they rely on each other in the community if you're less
01:47:55cosmopolitan you're moving and grooving around yeah and that's like a sad thing about living in a
01:48:00city but i try to like be connected in a city it's like a nice thing to try and build a community
01:48:04living in north london like what's the community of north london like jewish uh the uh
01:48:13the uh there's a lady who lives in my block of flats um who's this old italian lady and she feeds the
01:48:19foxes so you'll just see her in the bushes every day like throwing chicken to foxes um and if she
01:48:27sees one of the foxes has like mange uh she'll phone a fox charity get madison delivered put it in
01:48:34the chicken she's a fox lady give it to the fox she looks after the foxes and it means there's a real
01:48:37fox problem which is increasing our block of flats because they're very well looked after by this
01:48:43little italian lady and uh and uh but every so often she needs help sending a whatsapp so she comes
01:48:51up and knocks on the door you're fully integrated so it's like no i try to build that stuff and like
01:48:58i think it's really important and like i'm not even doing nearly enough of it as i should but like
01:49:03i think it's a really important part of life that's like like not easily fixable because it's really
01:49:08scary to just like say hello to somebody like on the street or your neighbor or whatever but like it is
01:49:14it's doable it's nice to be needed it's nice that that person's got something that they need you for
01:49:19yeah because the the worst thing would be everybody else is a solopreneur digital nomad degen just
01:49:26whatsapp in their way through their day and you go none of us need any of us yeah at all yeah yeah
01:49:32that's not fun what uh what do you think is something that italian families do that british
01:49:37people would i don't know consider psychological warfare psychological warfare i mean it's maybe
01:49:45so have you heard like so santa has become global but it wasn't always global like santa claus okay
01:49:51um like you know there was like a weird german one called like the is it the krampus or something
01:49:56who like eats kids um if they're naughty like that's instead of like a lump of coal like you just get
01:50:01eaten by a sort of weird goblin reverse santa claus yeah yeah but i think you do get nice stuff if
01:50:06you're good or maybe you just avoid being eaten but our version is i think a lab ifana and i think i
01:50:11fucked this up but this is what i was told um where when the wise men were looking to find jesus they
01:50:16were knocking on all the doors in bethlehem because like they look for under a star but like that's not
01:50:22a good it's hardly google maps you know what i mean so they had the vague area that they were supposed
01:50:26to be in but couldn't find him so they were knocking on doors going oh we're looking for the son of god
01:50:30who's to be born or like who's just been born and uh we're trying to find him and basically this old
01:50:37lady who's like sort of an old witch type character just tells them to off but then
01:50:42when they leave she feels bad and she's like god if that is like if that is the son of god
01:50:46like that's a pretty terrible thing that i've done not to help these guys sort of bestow gifts
01:50:49upon him so what she does to cover her bases she was like i need to give a gift to the newly born
01:50:55son of god but she obviously didn't know where he was so she gave gifts to all the children
01:51:00in the whole area in the hope that one of those would be the newly born son of god so in balfast
01:51:08growing up we would go to like a community hall with a bouncy castle and sandwiches and all this stuff
01:51:12and like have a fun day and then we would all sit down and a late an old lady dressed as a witch
01:51:17would come in and give us all presents
01:51:24isn't that mad is that was that traumatic as a nervous slightly panicky child no i think i i
01:51:32was scared by weird things la bifana the witch was absolutely fine um it's the uh what's his um
01:51:40i remember i went to disney world when i was a child terrified of the little mermaid burst into tears
01:51:46of the mermaid herself like no the mermaid herself like the lady like the actress or whatever
01:51:51the struggling actress who's playing the little mermaid at disney world eight hours a day yeah
01:51:55sweating and like a wig and i think i was just like really freaked out that she didn't have legs
01:52:05you're overwhelmed by the fish lady yeah it was just a little bit much for me yeah i remember i went i
01:52:11went there as well and uh what was that what was the elevator you're going to do the same thing i'm
01:52:17terrified of saying the sentence with the name of the thing in it the elevator that went up and down and
01:52:23that was the ride do you remember this tower of terror i'm glad that it wasn't the tower that was
01:52:29terrifying you were fine uh i remember i went on that and someone's thing came loose as they fell
01:52:37and uh there was all of this hubbub there was a big i mean that's you know you said if you die
01:52:42on a plane there's going to be paperwork i think there was a lot of paperwork well i haven't really
01:52:46done roller coasters since was it alton towers where somebody lost their leg on nemesis didn't
01:52:51that happen twice can you chat gpt how many people got injured on nemesis at alton towers the smiler
01:53:01yes 16 people the smiler that seems tough name that seems ironic tough name i crashed the injured 16
01:53:10five what was just say what was the one where someone lost their leg like i think it was alton
01:53:15towers but i truly haven't been on a roller coaster since and i don't know it's just like i obviously
01:53:21you know that's a possibility but you sort of think i'll be all right let's check all the safety on
01:53:26those things it's a great name bargazzi joke about like he's thinking the smiler a traveling funfair
01:53:31yeah me leg amputations two people they must have got crazy money five million it doesn't really
01:53:40matter you've lost a leg how much for a leg my leg yeah
01:53:45it's a tough conundrum isn't it i really like my leg i like both of them equally if you had to lose
01:53:55one which one would you lose that's oh that's weird because you know the way you like you have your
01:54:01kicking foot but then you like you jump off the other one oh no which do i prefer kicking or jumping
01:54:09i don't think i would be doing much jumping as like a one-legged guy so how much kicking would
01:54:14you be doing loads i think you're mostly kicking crotch bang i think yeah i think i would keep my
01:54:21right leg and train for the paralympics as a one-legged football guy i think i'd keep my right
01:54:25leg as well i think that's the important one i don't know i've been thinking about are you left-handed
01:54:30by any chance no because that sometimes happens right with uh i think autistic people have got
01:54:35oh really we've swapped the as in you're right-footed and left-handed no that uh there's a disproportionate
01:54:40number of people who are autistic that are also left-handed wow i think let's google this one i'm
01:54:46worried about the whatever the whatever it is water usage or whatever it is that you're concerned about
01:54:50um uh my left hand is essentially for show it doesn't do anything well i had a lot because
01:54:57when i was a percussionist right a lot of the focus of that sort of training just bringing the
01:55:03other hand up to the quality of the get this to stop being so useless and do nearly what you can do
01:55:10is like basically the whole thing uh dude double wow what's what the is that word echo echo echolash
01:55:24echolalia echolalia that's when uh uh you sort of repeat words it's sort of like audiological stems
01:55:32or repeat words or noises so someone will repeat words or noises yeah and uh yeah yeah and they just
01:55:38sort of like get stuck in a loop i get that sometimes my girlfriend has to go hey stop what was the last
01:55:45time that that happened i just got like if i if i like the way a word sounds either that i've said or
01:55:50somebody else has said or like in a song i'll just be like indigo indigo indigo indigo indigo indigo
01:55:58and she goes
01:56:04fuck vittorio angeloni ladies and gentlemen thank you so much for having me this is this is
01:56:09this was really good for you were about to say actually no yes you were no yes i was gonna say
01:56:13this was actively in uh where should people go to check out everything you do vittorio angeloni on
01:56:21instagram uh i'm a i'm touring stand-up comedy i don't know when this comes out but i've got two
01:56:25specials on youtube and that's probably the best place i always think like it's crazy after a podcast to
01:56:30be like buy a ticket to see me watch my shows on youtube see if you like that and then buy a ticket
01:56:36if you fancy it i can appreciate you man all right until next time everyone lovely dude
01:56:41wasn't that fun super fun thank you very much for tuning in if you enjoyed that episode youtube knows
01:56:48who you are deeply it thinks you're gonna like this one even more go on press it