Transcript

00:00:00Talk to me about what's happened to plastic surgery over time.
00:00:03We've seen increases in it, the types changed, what's the context of people getting different
00:00:09looks?
00:00:10The Kardashians did the VBL for a while, is that still in?
00:00:14Now it is breast augmentation for Gen Z women.
00:00:17So they are actually, boob jobs are very popular among that cohort.
00:00:22I do think that's influenced by pornography.
00:00:24Also labiaplasty.
00:00:25I was just looking actually at a study a couple nights ago showing that women, very many young
00:00:30women feel self-conscious about their labia and are actually getting these procedures done,
00:00:35which is also influenced from porn.
00:00:37And it, I mean, it's just crazy to me.
00:00:39It makes me wonder, is that why people are not interested in having sex?
00:00:42And with guys, guys are getting filler injections into their penis for even sexting purposes.
00:00:46Like they just want to look better.
00:00:49George, my housemate used to make this joke every time that we're on a plane.
00:00:56It was the same, you know, someone, it's kind of like a dad joke, but he's not yet a dad.
00:01:01And you know, those teeny tiny 175 ml cans of Diet Coke.
00:01:05Yeah.
00:01:06He would always say, it's like, I keep a hold of one of those and I go back and I take a
00:01:09dick pic with it in the background.
00:01:10So it would make it look, you know, it's like, oh, that's a 330 or a 355 ml pan, but I've
00:01:15kept the, I've kept the airplane mini and that's, you know, comparatively.
00:01:18I should be doing that instead of getting the filler in their penis.
00:01:20I agree.
00:01:21I agree.
00:01:22Make Diet Coke, mini Diet Coke's great again.
00:01:25So yeah, I mean the labiaplasty in the penis stuff, it seems to be obvious that it would
00:01:32be influenced by porn.
00:01:33But even things like, I see like news reports of women under 30 getting facelifts and getting
00:01:39upper eyelifts, right?
00:01:40And I, in my personal opinion, I don't think women that young need to be getting extensive
00:01:45work done because you do not have the signs of aging yet to justify.
00:01:49What do you think they're trying to do?
00:01:51Well, I think if you look at, say when women are the most fertile, it tends to be mid twenties.
00:01:56So my sense is most women are trying to look like they're in their mid twenties.
00:01:59So if you're older than that, you're going to try and look younger.
00:02:01And if you're younger, you're trying to look older.
00:02:04And so you're going to use, you're going to choose the most fertile in the mid twenties,
00:02:08early to mid twenties.
00:02:09Right.
00:02:10Yeah.
00:02:11Have you ever found out some really uncomfortable data around when men are most fertile?
00:02:18Really young.
00:02:19Yeah.
00:02:20It's really young.
00:02:21Like illegal in some states, young, and you go, really?
00:02:26Which is just, I don't know.
00:02:27We talk about women's biological clocks.
00:02:30We never really think about, there's so much sperm, right?
00:02:35Speak for yourself.
00:02:36But there's so much sperm and you only need one window though.
00:02:39They also have a larger, like men can still impregnate someone.
00:02:41Later on in life, there are higher rates of chromosomal abnormalities, but the potential,
00:02:46whereas for women, it's, it's a little bit more unforgiving.
00:02:50But anyway, so you think, well, I've seen what is buckle, buccal fat, buccal fat, buckle fat
00:02:57removal.
00:02:58Yeah.
00:02:59The cheek, cheek fat thing.
00:03:00Yeah.
00:03:01What's that trying to achieve?
00:03:02Do you think?
00:03:03To look older because you're removing the baby fat essentially in your face.
00:03:06But what happens is as you get older, your face naturally loses fat, right?
00:03:10And so you're going to look more gaunt and you might potentially need to use filler too.
00:03:16So I used, I got fat removal before I was 24 and then after I was 28, I had to use filler
00:03:26to replace where I got rid of the fat, right?
00:03:29Yeah.
00:03:30I mean, I, so I want to be clear, like I don't want to come down on men and women if they
00:03:32choose to get these procedures because I understand, especially if you have a public facing job,
00:03:37there's a lot of pressure to keep your looks up and to look young.
00:03:40But my concern is more so when it's really young people or I would say even for men who
00:03:45are doing this, you really don't need to.
00:03:47It is brutal.
00:03:48I mean, some of the young girls, it's supposed to be young girls that I've seen videos of
00:03:55on TikTok.
00:03:56There's like 22, 23 year old chicks and they look mid thirties or forties with all of this
00:04:03work that's been done.
00:04:05And I was, I was thinking, I was having a conversation last night about how the sort
00:04:12of ideal female form has changed even with sort of relatively extreme cosmetic procedures.
00:04:18So Geordie Shore, which was the British equivalent of Jersey Shore, that back in the day was a
00:04:24lot about fake tan.
00:04:27It was big hair.
00:04:28It was almost pinupy in a way.
00:04:30There was, it was tight suits too, weren't they?
00:04:33That's because of, that's something else, but yes, that was sort of part-
00:04:36Chavs.
00:04:37I learned what chav was.
00:04:38Chav.
00:04:39Chavs.
00:04:40Exactly.
00:04:41Well, look, be careful, right?
00:04:42Is that offensive?
00:04:43No, those were my customers.
00:04:44It's kind of like calling someone a hick.
00:04:45Oh, okay.
00:04:46I mean it with love.
00:04:47Me too.
00:04:48But those were my customers for a very long time.
00:04:51It was fake tan.
00:04:52It was big boobs, maybe augmented, maybe not.
00:04:57Brows too.
00:04:58Very specific eyebrows.
00:04:59It was painted on sort of aggressive brows, big hair, tight dress, short dress, right?
00:05:05I love that.
00:05:06Just to be clear, I'm not making fun of it.
00:05:08That aesthetic.
00:05:09Strong aesthetic.
00:05:10Great early 2010s aesthetic.
00:05:12And the guy's equivalent, I think up until probably about five years ago, we were a little
00:05:18bit delayed on the guy's thing, was sort of big muscles, not so concerned with height,
00:05:24fake tan, plunging v-neck neckline, tight jeans, expensive watch thing.
00:05:33Jeans?
00:05:34Yeah, maybe.
00:05:35But what I was trying to do with this conversation I was having last night, which was so interesting,
00:05:38I was trying to work out what was being signaled then and what's being signaled now.
00:05:45Okay.
00:05:46I think what's being signaled now is a more extreme version of that by both men and women.
00:05:56So the male thing, it's all about formidability now.
00:06:00It's the over-exaggerated handsome Squidward cheekbones and the jawline.
00:06:06It's the height, the height.
00:06:09But it's a lot less to do with, I'm not really seeing anyone talk about tan all that much.
00:06:14But even seeing, if you look at dark brows are really big for guys, the most popular looks
00:06:18maxes aren't that concerned with muscularity, extreme muscularity in the way that it would
00:06:23have been 10 years ago.
00:06:2410 years ago, it would have just been get as wide and as muscular as possible.
00:06:28That's not quite the case now.
00:06:29And then with the women, both of them are basically caricatures of the most sexually dimorphic
00:06:35physical traits.
00:06:36Right?
00:06:37Like the Geryon runaway, I think it's called, where the stag deer that's got antlers so big
00:06:45that he can't lift his head up and he dies.
00:06:47The peacock that's got such a ridiculous tail that he gets caught with the first second there's
00:06:50a predator around.
00:06:51But like he did some great boning on the way out.
00:06:55That seems to be what's happening with men and women now.
00:06:59It's just a more, what the next evolution, it's more extreme limb lengthening surgery,
00:07:03the brows, the cheekbones, the mandible surgery, all that stuff.
00:07:07For women especially, I think it can also be the equivalent of showing off an expensive
00:07:11handbag.
00:07:12So instead of saying, here's my designer bag or here's my designer titties, or, you know,
00:07:16that my lips or whatever, like I have a man who will pay for my surgery and make me look
00:07:20like this.
00:07:21It's a good argument for why I've heard about why women have long nails and long hair.
00:07:28It's just fucking impractical.
00:07:31It is itself a status of wealth and luxury that not only can I maintain them, but I have
00:07:40a life that requires so little hard labor that this hair and these nails and this makeup.
00:07:45I mean, the female intersexual competition is just like fucking endlessly interesting,
00:07:50right?
00:07:51Like shoes and bags, exclusively intersexual.
00:07:56I do not know the difference between whatever you're wearing and something that was one tenth
00:08:00the price and something that was a thousand times the price, I have no idea.
00:08:04But women do.
00:08:05Women, women know.
00:08:07And if you're in a relationship, it's basically my man is so invested in me that he spent however
00:08:14much money on this thing.
00:08:16So like, don't think, don't even think about going there.
00:08:19Which is why I also think that women tend to go a little bit overboard in some cases with
00:08:23the work done as a way to signal that they have the money and the resources or man that
00:08:27is paying for it.
00:08:29Because usually when you think of plastic surgery, men don't like plastic surgery typically.
00:08:33Men, they don't like it in women because it masks their underlying health and fertility,
00:08:38right?
00:08:39So if a woman can turn back the clock in terms of aging, signs of aging, or appear more attractive
00:08:44than she naturally was, or maybe you don't mind so much, but from the conversations I've
00:08:48had with men, men tend to not really like plastic surgery.
00:08:50No, I agree.
00:08:51They prefer natural beauty.
00:08:52I agree.
00:08:53I saw this tweet after the Grammys that fucking ripped, and it was, "Men love Sydney Sweeney
00:09:01and hate Sabrina Carpenter.
00:09:04Women love Sabrina Carpenter and hate Sydney Sweeney."
00:09:07And the explanation that I saw, I was so fascinated by it, and it seems to be pretty accurate.
00:09:12I don't know that many guys that like, "I love Sabrina Carpenter."
00:09:16And I don't know that many women that love Sydney Sweeney.
00:09:19That's funny.
00:09:20I've seen this.
00:09:21I mean, I think they're both pretty, so I don't know.
00:09:22I guess I'm like one of the odd ones.
00:09:23I think they need to be more judgmental.
00:09:26The best explanation that I saw was that Sabrina Carpenter, her physical presentation is basically
00:09:33gay and female-coded, and Sydney Sweeney is sort of low-maintenance, natural, male-coded
00:09:43beauty, less sort of curated in that sort of a way, and that low-maintenance thing seems
00:09:51to come across.
00:09:52I think the reliable signal of fitness cue that's being sort of hidden by lots of plastic
00:10:04surgery is so true, and I get the sense that the Lux Maxing community for men is doing
00:10:10the same thing.
00:10:11I was going to ask you about that.
00:10:12Like, what are your views?
00:10:13Because when I write about this, I get a lot of young men who get upset at me and say, "You
00:10:18don't understand, right?
00:10:19This is the time."
00:10:20"This is the time for the fucking patriarchy to step in," writing as a woman.
00:10:25Sit down.
00:10:26Let me explain to you.
00:10:27What do I think?
00:10:29I think I have a really fucking...
00:10:32I think this is an interesting take.
00:10:34My advice to guys is just work away, get rich, honestly.
00:10:39Get rich.
00:10:40Don't worry about all the taking the hormones to make your bone structure-
00:10:43I would say get rich, get popular.
00:10:47Lux are important, but you can make some pretty good changes just by becoming more diligent.
00:10:53What I would say about the Lux Maxing thing is, what guys seem to be optimizing for is
00:10:59formidability.
00:11:01So they're optimizing for the sort of things that other men respect, not that women are
00:11:04attracted to.
00:11:06So other men would...
00:11:08If you look at most guys that have Lux Maxed and put them in front of women, I wonder whether
00:11:13women would find them more attractive.
00:11:15So it's intersexual competition again.
00:11:17Or whether men would find them more formidable.
00:11:18I think that more men would find them more formidable than more women would find them
00:11:22more attractive.
00:11:23Because most women are not looking for their guys to be hyper, hyper masculine like that.
00:11:28There's even some evidence to suggest that women prefer a slightly feminized face with
00:11:32a masculinized body.
00:11:34And not super jacked either.
00:11:35No, not super jacked.
00:11:37But they want average face or sometimes actually slightly feminized face with masculinized body.
00:11:44So, all of the guys are just pushing toward heavier brow, deeper jaw, stronger cheekbones.
00:11:51But you know the David Putz study that he did about when he brought people into the lab and
00:11:56got women to rate attractiveness and men to rate formidability?
00:12:00Remind me.
00:12:01So fucking good.
00:12:02So, photos of guys shown to women and men.
00:12:05Women were asked to rank, how attractive do you think this man is?
00:12:08Men were asked to rank, how likely do you think it is that you could beat this other man in
00:12:12a fight?
00:12:14One year later, they brought the men from the photos into the lab and asked what their sexual
00:12:20success had been over the last year.
00:12:22And the female ratings of attractiveness had basically zero predictive power for the sexual
00:12:27success.
00:12:28But the male ratings of formidability were very predictive.
00:12:32So even though what I think is happening at level one, this is like the Epstein files.
00:12:38Level one, where he didn't kill himself, is Lux Maxis are optimizing for formidability
00:12:48because they're disregarding women.
00:12:50And it's intra-sexual competition because I just want to morgue other guys.
00:12:53I just want to be better than other men.
00:12:56Level two, Epstein's still alive and playing Fortnite in Israel, is actually by pursuing
00:13:02formidability, they may end up closing their eyes and throwing the dart at the dartboard
00:13:06and hitting the bullseye of women actually finding them more attractive than if they tried
00:13:11to pursue attractiveness as the main outcome.
00:13:13But this is, again, this is working theory at the moment.
00:13:17Yeah, I mean, because I could see that in terms of tattoos, there have been studies to show
00:13:20that men, when they get tattoos, it actually is more so about scaring off their male rivals
00:13:27because women don't, some women like tattoos, but not all do.
00:13:30And some women actually are turned off by tattoos.
00:13:32So it's more, again, like you said, of scaring off and beating your rivals than directly
00:13:37attracting women.
00:13:38But I also wonder if it's that these men are projecting onto women their preferences.
00:13:43So men care more about looks and, you know, youth.
00:13:47So I wonder if when you look at, say, marriage or marital satisfaction, men say, whether men
00:13:54find their wives attractive has a greater correlation with their marital satisfaction than whether
00:14:00women find their husbands attractive.
00:14:02So I wonder if these young guys are projecting onto women thinking that women care so much
00:14:07about looks when it's actually, that's what they care about in their partners.
00:14:10Oh, it's a failure of cross-sex mind reading using their own assessment criteria and saying,
00:14:18you must think the way that I think, I'll do more beautification.
00:14:21Well, Mac and Murphy's got this great idea where he talks about how the increases in male
00:14:27beautification are to try and offset this inability to get hypogamy to work, that men
00:14:33have realized that because they can't win socioeconomically, they might have to turn the vanity mirror
00:14:42round in an attempt to out beautify their socioeconomic lack.
00:14:48Yeah, especially when they're young and they're just starting out in their career and they're
00:14:50thinking, okay, how do I attract women?
00:14:52I don't have the money yet.
00:14:53I don't have the resources.
00:14:54Well, I can just get really hot.
00:14:57There's worse theories.
00:14:59There are worse theories.
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00:16:01Thank you very much for tuning in.
00:16:03Ooh, a tasty morsel of a clip there for you.
00:16:06Well, the full episode is available right here.
00:16:10Come on, that's it.

Key Takeaway

Modern cosmetic trends and 'LooksMaxxing' are driven by a complex mix of pornographic influence, intra-sexual status signaling, and a shift toward extreme sexual dimorphism that often prioritizes peer competition over actual partner preferences.

Highlights

Gen Z women are increasingly seeking breast augmentations and labiaplasty, often influenced by pornography.

Young men are using filler injections and photography tricks to enhance the appearance of their genitalia.

The 'buccal fat removal' trend among young people often leads to premature aging and a need for future fillers.

Modern 'LooksMaxxing' trends for men prioritize formidability and intra-sexual competition over direct female attraction.

Cosmetic procedures can serve as status symbols for women, signaling wealth or a partner's high level of investment.

Men and women often fail at 'cross-sex mind reading,' pursuing aesthetic goals that their target audience may not actually prefer.

Economic shifts have led young men to focus on 'out-beautifying' their peers as they lack early-career resources.

Timeline

Modern Plastic Surgery Trends and Pornographic Influence

Dr. Debra Soh and the host discuss the shift from the Kardashian-era Brazilian Butt Lift (BBL) to Gen Z's preference for breast augmentations. They highlight how pornography has heavily influenced young women to seek procedures like labiaplasty due to increased self-consciousness. Men are also shown to be affected, with some seeking filler injections for their genitalia or using optical illusions with small soda cans for photos. This section emphasizes that these trends are increasingly focused on digital presentation and 'sexting' culture. The speakers express concern that these hyper-specific aesthetic standards are distorting natural body image at a very young age.

The Pitfalls of Youthful Anti-Aging Procedures

The conversation moves to women under 30 undergoing facelifts, eye lifts, and buccal fat removal. Dr. Soh argues that women in their early 20s are at their peak fertility and often try to maintain that specific 'mid-twenties' look indefinitely. She explains that removing facial fat when young often backfires because the face naturally loses volume with age, leading to a gaunt appearance later. This creates a cycle where patients must eventually use fillers to replace the fat they previously paid to have removed. The host notes that these procedures often make 22-year-olds look like they are in their mid-thirties due to the unnatural level of work performed.

Evolution of Aesthetics and Status Signaling

The host compares the 'Geordie Shore' aesthetic of the early 2010s—characterized by fake tans, big hair, and aggressive eyebrows—to the current trends. They discuss how these looks function as status symbols, particularly for women signaling that they have the resources or a partner willing to fund expensive maintenance. This section explores the concept of 'handbag signaling,' where cosmetic work replaces designer goods as a marker of wealth. It is noted that long nails and high-maintenance hair serve as 'handicaps' that prove the individual does not have to perform manual labor. The speakers agree that while women use these cues for competition with other women, men often find natural beauty more attractive.

LooksMaxxing and the Quest for Formidability

The discussion pivots to 'LooksMaxxing' among men, which focuses on exaggerated features like 'Handsome Squidward' cheekbones and sharp jawlines. The host argues that men are optimizing for 'formidability'—traits that other men respect or fear—rather than what women find attractive. They cite the 'Geryon runaway' effect in nature, where animals develop traits so extreme for sexual selection that they become impractical or dangerous. This section highlights a disconnect where men pursue hyper-masculinity while many women actually prefer a slightly feminized face with a masculinized body. The host suggests that men are essentially caricaturing themselves in a competitive arms race against other males.

The Science of Attractiveness vs. Success

The host references a study by David Putz which found that female ratings of male attractiveness had little predictive power for a man's actual sexual success. Instead, male ratings of a man's 'formidability' (how likely he is to win a fight) were highly predictive of his reproductive success. This suggests that 'morging' other men or being dominant in male circles indirectly leads to better outcomes with women. The speakers explore the 'Epstein-level' theory that LooksMaxxing is a form of intra-sexual competition that accidentally hits the bullseye of female attraction. They conclude that by focusing on being the 'top' male among peers, men might unintentionally satisfy female preferences for high-status partners.

Failure of Cross-Sex Mind Reading and Economic Offsetting

The final segment addresses 'cross-sex mind reading' failures, where men project their own preference for visual beauty onto women. Dr. Soh notes that while male marital satisfaction is tied to their wife's looks, the reverse is not as strongly correlated for women. This leads young men to over-invest in their appearance because they mistakenly believe women value it as much as they do. They also discuss Macken Murphy's theory that men use beautification to offset a lack of socioeconomic status in a difficult economy. The host advises young men that while looks matter, they should focus more on gaining wealth and popularity as more sustainable strategies. The video concludes with a brief sponsorship message and a call to watch the full episode for deeper insights.

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